Random DM nagging.

[Corwin]

In other words, the issue is the 'same stat to same derived value', while different stats to the same derived value would generally be allowed? To use your Master example, if he had Charisma to saves and Intelligence to saves, both would apply and be legitimate?

[Anastasia]

Ayup, pending DM discretion like everything else.

[Corwin]

Cool, thanks.

[Anastasia]

What'cha planning, by the way? I know you were toying with Knight of the Wise Convent when it was posted.

[Anastasia]

By the way people, I want the ring from the tomb + the Nessian's ring sorted out before session tomorrow. Otherwise we'll sit there and wait until it's sorted out. This is going on weeks. I want a decision, even if it's just to throw it into a lake and forget about it.

[Anastasia]

http://www.soulriders.net/forum/index.php/topic,101784.msg1036044.html#msg1036044

Ferrum Incendia

This ring grants the wearer's natural attacks a +5 enhancement bonus, as well as an additional 2d6 points of hellfire damage. This ring radiates overwhelming evil.

Can this ring be fixed? If so, how would the Triune like to handle it?

Ferrum Incendia must be doused in the joyous cries of newborn eternal life, then used to bring peace between great enemies.

[Corwin]

I was simply thinking about trying to design an epic class for holy warriors which had Divine Grace. Then I figured, since paladins had the Grace ability and they were very likely to go for this prc, would it be good or bad for them? Or would they just have to ACF one of the instances out? That started me wondering how this stuff would work in a normal setting too, like with paladin/champion of gwynharwyf, and how other stuff might stack. Thus I asked.

It's more of a fun thing. I'm also trying to design a thematically fitting class, since there's been all this talk about disciples and training and what not, but that's not a priority.

Re: rings. I understand your frustration, but each of us is only responsible for ourselves. I never had a strong interest in the Nessian ring and indicated as much. The tomb ring is the same. I'm not going to force anyone into taking them, and I hardly intend to fight over something fairly ill-suited for me.

[Anastasia]

Aaah.

For reference, I personally wouldn't give divine grace as an epic class feature. A holy warrior is likely either going to have that, or has chosen not to add it to their build. The ability's been in play since level 2. Epic classes shouldn't just be rehashes of normal classes. Really, for an epic PrC you want go past what normal classes do and have some reason it is epic. That's the hardest part about designing one - if you can look at it and you can't come up with a good reason that it's not a normal PrC, you need to reconsider if it should be an epic PrC in the first place. That makes designing epic PrCs challenging. Got any concrete ideas formed up yet? I can give you some advice if you want.

[Anastasia]

Re: rings. I understand your frustration, but each of us is only responsible for ourselves. I never had a strong interest in the Nessian ring and indicated as much. The tomb ring is the same. I'm not going to force anyone into taking them, and I hardly intend to fight over something fairly ill-suited for me.

I'd like one of you to step up and settle it then. I don't care which, just get it done with already. Nothing against any of you, this has just gone on too long. Someone needs to step up and move this.

[Corwin]

Fine. Unless a PC claims it or has a better case/stronger preference, the Nessian ring goes to Mirima. Unless a PC claims it or has a better case/stronger preference, the WillMettle ring goes to Ebony.

[Anastasia]

Okay, thanks.

[Anastasia]

Mei will finally be posted tonight. Apologies for the delay, a mix of custom material and personal distractions slowed this down. Also, I'm posting this feat now to cut off questions later.

Devoted Warlock [General]
Prerequisite: Smite evil, eldritch blast.
Benefit: If you have levels in paladin and warlock those levels stack for the purpose of determining the bonus damage dealt by your smite evil ability and the total damage of your eldritch blast ability. In addition, you may smite evil with your eldritch blast. This functions as normal, adding your charisma modifier to hit and your paladin level to damage.

The first part of the feat doesn't apply to this game, but I put it there for the sake of completeness. Mei does gain the ability to smite evil with her eldritch blast.

[Anastasia]

Mei is fiiiiiinally up. I had to do a crapload of custom material and tweaking, and moreover I needed a refresher course on warlocks. Oh, and I made her an entire custom PrC to better fit her role and theme. Some of that's on me for putting a lot of effort into her, but in any case it was a considerable amount of work. A few nit-picky things aren't in place yet. I haven't found a good picture for her, her spells and invocations need to be formatted and added to spells, she'll need epic progressions for Voice of the Triune and VoP and I need to make a good cheat sheet for her invocation combos.

By the way, one of the BoED designers made an epic progression for VoP. I'll probably use that with a few modifications. You can view it below.

[spoiler]

Epic Vow of Poverty (Epic, Exalted)
You have renewed your vow to forswear material possessions.

Prerequisites:  Sacred Vow, Vow of Poverty, character level 21+.

Benefit:  You continue to gain bonuses to your Armour Class, attacks, ability scores and saving throws, as well as bonus feats, all depending on your character level.  See the table below for details.

Special:  To fulfil your vow, you must not own or use any material possessions, with the following exceptions: You may carry and use an ordinary (neither magic nor masterwork) quarterstaff.  You may wear simple clothes (usually just a homespun robe, possibly also including a hat and sandals).  You may carry and use a spell component pouch.  You may not use any magic item of any sort, though you can benefit from magic items used on your behalf  you can drink a potion of cure serious wounds a friend gives you, receive a spell cast from a wand, scroll or staff, or ride on your companion's ebon fly.  You may not, however, "borrow" a cloak of resistance or any other magic item from a companion for even a single round, nor may you yourself cast a spell from a scroll, wand or staff.

If you break your vow, you immediately and irrevocably lose the benefit of this feat.  You may not take another feat to replace it.

Epic Vow of Poverty Benefits
AC Bonus (Su): An epic ascetic's exalted bonus to AC continues to increase by +1 for every 3 character levels beyond 18th (+11 at 21st level, +12 at 24th level, +13 at 27th level, and so forth).

Resistance (Ex): An epic ascetic's resistance bonus to saving throws increases by +1 for every 4 character levels beyond 17th (+4 at 21st, +5 at 25th, +6 at 29th, and so forth).

Bonus Feats: An epic ascetic gains a bonus feat every 2 levels over 20th (22nd, 24th, 26th, and so forth).  These bonus feats must be selected from the following list, and the character must still meet all pre-requisites for the feats:

Epic Ascetic Bonus Feats: Any exalted feat, plus Armour Skin*, Bonus Domain**, Damage Reduction*, Energy Resistance*, Epic Toughness*, Extended Life Span*, Fast Healing*, Great Charisma*, Great Constitution*, Great Dexterity*, Great Intelligence*, Great Smiting, Great Strength*, Great Wisdom*, Improved Alignment-Based Casting (good), Improved Aura of Courage, Improved Spell Resistance*, Music of the Gods, Penetrate Damage Reduction***, Perfect Health, Planar Turning, Positive Energy Aura, Spontaneous Domain Access**, Widen Aura of Courage.
* This feat can be taken multiple times, its effects stack.
** This feat can be taken multiple times, applying to a new domain each time.
*** This feat can be taken multiple times, applying to a different type of special material each time.

Holy Wake (Ex): Once he attains 22nd level, an epic ascetic character does not need to sleep and is immune to all natural and magical sleep effects.  An epic ascetic spellcaster still requires eight hours of rest before he can replenish his spells, usually spending the time in a meditative trance.

Exalted Strike (Su): An epic ascetic's exalted strike ability continues to increase as he gains levels.  The enhancement bonus to attack and damage rolls increases by +1 for every 3 character levels beyond 20th.  At 23rd level, any weapon the character wields effectively becomes a +6 weapon, and can overcome the damage reduction of a creature as though it were an epic weapon.  At 26th level, the ascetic's attacks are considered to have been made with a silver or cold iron weapon, whichever would be more beneficial.  At 32nd level, any weapon the character wields is considered to have the holy ability, dealing extra damage to evil creatures.  At 41st level, any weapon the character wields is considered to have the holy power ability.

Ability Score Enhancement (Ex): An epic ascetic's ability score enhancements continue to increase beyond 20th level.  At 23rd level, his existing bonuses increase by +2 and he gains a +2 bonus to a fifth ability score.  At 27th level, he gains a +2 bonus to those five scores and a +2 bonus to a sixth ability score.  The bonus for each ability score then increases by +2 for every 4 character levels he achieves.

Damage Reduction (Su): At 24th level, the epic ascetic's damage reduction improves to 10/epic and evil.  For every 10 levels the ascetic gains beyond 24th, his damage reduction improves by 5 points (15/epic & evil at 34th, 20/epic & evil at 44th, etc.).

Deflection (Su): An epic ascetic's deflection bonus to AC increases by +1 at 24th level, and every 6 levels thereafter.

Inherent Bonus (Ex): Upon reaching 24th level, an epic ascetic gains a +1 inherent bonus to all of his ability scores.  This bonus increases by +1 for every 2 levels the ascetic achieves beyond 24th (+2 at 26th level, +3 at 28th level, +4 at 30th level, to a maximum of +5 at 32nd level).

Natural Armour (Ex): An epic ascetic's natural armour bonus to AC increases by +1 for every 8 character levels beyond 16th (24th, 32nd, 40th, and so forth).

Holy Aura (Su): An epic ascetic of 25th level and above is surrounded at all times by the effects of the holy aura spell.  This aura provides all of the usual benefits of the spell to any good creature within 20 feet of the ascetic.

Energy Resistance (Ex): At 28th level, an epic ascetic's energy resistance increases to 30.  Beginning at 35th level, an epic ascetic chooses one energy type (acid, cold, electricity, fire or sonic).  The epic ascetic is now immune to that energy type.  An epic ascetic chooses another energy type for every 5 levels beyond 35th (40th, 45th, 50th and 55th).

Timeless Body (Ex): Upon attaining 29th level, an epic ascetic no longer takes penalties to his ability scores for aging and cannot be magically aged.  Any such penalties that he has already taken, however, remain in place.  Bonuses still accrue, and the ascetic still dies of old age when his time is up.

Fast Healing (Ex): Upon reaching 32nd level, an epic ascetic's regeneration ability improves.  He gains the fast healing ability, healing an amount of damage per round equal to (ascetic's level -5)/5, rounded down.

Swiftness (Su): Upon reaching 36th level, the epic ascetic's speed doubles (this does not stack with any magical or supernatural enhancements to speed) and he gains the evasion ability (as the monk class feature).  He also gains a +20 competence bonus on Balance, Climb, Jump and Tumble checks.  Three times per day, he can act as though under the effects of a haste spell for 20 rounds.

Tongues (Ex): At 39th level, an epic ascetic can communicate with any creature, as though under the effects of a tongues spell.

Divine Ascension (Ex): Upon reaching 40th level, the ascetic is rewarded with a small measure of divine power for his faith and endurance. He gains a divine rank of 0, which grants him the following benefits:

* His hit points are increased to the maximum possible for his Hit Dice.
* His base land speed increases to 60 feet (50 feet if he is Small)
* His deflection bonus to AC is increased by his Charisma bonus.
* He is rendered immune to polymorph, petrification and any other effect that alters his form (though he may forgo this immunity at his option).
* He is no longer subject to energy drain, ability drain, ability damage or mind-affecting effects.
* He gains spell resistance 32, or his existing spell resistance increases by 5.

Aura of Menace (Su): Beginning at 43rd level, a righteous aura surrounds the epic ascetic when he is in combat or angry.  Any hostile creatures within a 20-foot radius of the ascetic must succeed on a Will save to resist its effects.  The save DC is equal to 12 + half the ascetic's character level + the ascetic's Charisma modifier.  Those who fail take a penalty on attacks, AC and saves equal to (ascetic's level)/5, rounded down.  This penalty lasts for 24 hours or until they successfully hit the ascetic.  A creature that has successfully resisted or broken the effect cannot be affected again by the ascetic's aura for 24 hours.

Special Ability: Upon reaching 45th level, and every 5 levels thereafter, the epic ascetic chooses one ability from the following list.

Exalted Banestrike (Su) – Any weapon the ascetic wields (including natural weapons or unarmed strikes) deals grievous damage to undead and evil outsiders. Against such foes, the ascetic's attacks deal an extra 4d6 points of damage.

Exalted Dodge (Ex) – When struck by an opponent the ascetic has designated as the target of his Dodge feat, he may make a Reflex save (DC 10 + damage dealt) to negate all damage from the attack.

Exalted Druid (Su) – While in wild shape, the ascetic gains all the extraordinary and supernatural abilities of the creature whose form he adopts. In addition, the ascetic can assume the form of magical beasts.

Exalted Evasion (Su) – Any physical attack or individually targeted spell directed at the ascetic has a 20% miss chance. Area effects that include the ascetic have a similar chance to be ineffective. If an attack overcomes the miss chance, the ascetic still gets the benefit of a saving throw (if applicable).

Exalted Monk (Su) – The ascetic's unarmed strikes are treated as slashing weapons with the keen, lawful and vorpal qualities. The ascetic can choose to deal bludgeoning damage instead of slashing damage, but the vorpal quality does not apply to the attack. In addition, the ascetic's unarmed damage increases by one die step.

Exalted Paladin (Su) – The ascetic's aura of courage grants a +8 morale bonus on saving throws against fear effects and extends to all allies within 100 feet. In addition, the ascetic can smite evil an additional three times per day, and gets an extra three points of damage per class level on a successful smite.

Exalted Radiance (Su) – The ascetic automatically dispels any darkness effect that comes into contact with his Nimbus of Light. In addition, undead within the brightly lit area of the Nimbus take an additional 2d8 points of holy damage each round with no save.

Exalted Sight (Su) – The ascetic is under the constant effects of a greater arcane sight spell.

Exalted Warrior (Ex) – The ascetic's base attack bonus increases to +20/+15/+10/+5. This increase is applied before Epic modifiers.

Exalted Weapon Mastery (Ex) – When striking with a simple or natural weapon, the ascetic gains the benefits of the Epic Weapon Focus, Epic Weapon Specialisation and Improved Critical feats.

I welcome constructive comments and feedback on the changes,  however, this thread is for the discussion of additional Special Abilities that can be added to the list.  From the previous thread we have the following to consider:

Call the Ascetic (Su)
Once per day the ascetic character can call Pistis Sophia The Ascetic, she help the ascetic character for 5 hours, she arrive 2d6 Min. after she is called, if the ascetic character is dead by then (for some reason, monsters, traps etc.), there happen something special, she begins to search after those who killed the ascetic, and when she finds them, and fight them, then after 1d6 rounds the least champion of celestia arrive, and after that have arrived, then 1d6 rounds after the second least champion of celestia arrive, this continue untill every champion of celestia has arrived. Except one: the watcher, he shall watch over the layers they have leaved behind, untill they comes back. When they are done with those who killed the ascetic, they take home to their layer of celestia again.  Maybe it should be Min. per ascetic character level/5 or maybe even rounds per ascetic level/5, but in this kind of case i think he/she could divide the time out to several times per day.

Exalted Resurrection (Su)
Once per month the ascetic character is brought back to life as though by a true resurrection spell.

Exalted Grace (Ex)
The Ascetic's pre-Epic base save bonuses increase to Fort +12, Ref +12, Will +12.

Greater Exalted Grace (Ex or Su?)
The Ascetic may add his Charisma modifier as a Sacred bonus to saving throws.  Prerequisite: Exalted Grace.

Spell-like Ability
The Ascetic gains a spell-like ability.  He may choose any 0-3rd level spell to be usable at will, any 4th-6th level spell usable 3/day, or any 7th-9th level spell usable 1/day.  The spell chosen may not have the Evil descriptor, and gains the Good descriptor in addition to any it may already possess.  You may select a spell modified by a metamagic feat, but the spell's adjusted level is used for determining daily uses (spells whose adjusted level is over 9th may be used 1/week), and the total metamagic adjustment of all spell-like abilities may never be more than the Ascetic's Charisma modifier.  You may not select spells using Heighten, Fortify, or similar metamagics.  A spell-like ability may be seleced multiple times to gain additional uses.  The ability's caster level is equal to the Ascetic's HD, and its save DC is Charisma based.  If Wish, Limited Wish, or Miracle is selected, the XP cost must be payed in full for each use.

Exalted Magic (Ex or Su?)
Any damaging spell the Ascetic casts is treated as Purifed and Consecrated, without increasing the casting time or using a higher-level spell slot.  In addition, he recieves a +2 bonus to overcome the spell resistance of evil creatures; this stacks with Spell Penetration and similar effects.  The benefits of this power do not apply to any Spell-like or Supernatural abilities the Ascetic may possess.

Epic Exalted Companion (Ex)
The Ascetic's familiar, animal companion, or special mount gains the Half-Celestial template, and recieves Epic Planar Creature and Legendary Planar Creature as bonus feats (both found here). (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=158114)  If the Ascetic has more than one of these creatures (for example, a multiclass Wizard/Druid, with both a familiar and an animal companion), he must select only one to recieve the benefit (though he can select this ability again to grant it to another).

Exalted Cohort (Ex)
A powerful creature of good, such as a Celestial, high-level Paladin, or metallic dragon, pledges itself to the Ascetic's service.  The creature's exact level of power is determined by the Ascetic's Leadership score, as defined under the Leadership and Epic Leadership feats, with the exception that its effective level is considered three lower than normal (for Leadership purposes only).  The Ascetic does not attract followers by selecting this ability.  The cohort gained thus is in addition to any he may already have by virtue of taking the aforementioned feats.

Exalted Lifespark (Su?)
You are constantly under the effects of Deathward.  Additionally, you may Turn Undead, as a Cleric of 1/2 your level, a number of times each day equal to your Charisma modifier.  If you can already Turn Undead, you Turn as if you were 5 levels higher in the class that granted the ability, and you recieve Extra Turning as a bonus feat.

Improved Exalted Strike (Su)
You may select a number of weapon enhancements, whose total "plus value" cannot exceed your Charisma modifier, to be applied to any weapon you wield, including natural weapons and unarmed strikes.  You need not spend the entire amount at once, and may select new enhancements if your Charisma permanantly increases in the future.  Once chosen, these enhancements cannot be changed; this ability cannot be taken more than once.  Note that selecting Holy or Holy Power would be redundant.  Example: an Ascetic with 30 Cha (+10 modifier) could choose to make his weapons (and fists, claws, etc.) Speed (+4), Brilliant Energy (+4), and Flaming Burst (+2).  If his Charisma later permanantly increases to 32, he could add the Spell-storing property, as well.

[Corwin]

From my understanding, Morniel is first working to arrange a meeting with the resistance, and then will switch to working on the Triad stuff. But if he's doing it in parallel, let's say he was instructed on our attitude towards betrayal of any kind and that Naliel will not be welcome. As an accomplished diplomat, he can probably spin it any way he wishes or just be honest, whichever works best for him.

[Anastasia]

Gwinnan's Travel Logs, Volume 3: Fire.

Gwinnan is a traveling elf, taking in the sights of the planes by his magic and his wits. This book touches on the basics of the Plane of Fire, details the party already knows. However, there is one tidbit in particular that is of unusual interest.

"There are many different tribes and kingdoms within Fire, but none were stranger than the Defilers of Water. They are a group of devoted efreeti who take burning rock and craft it into the shape of great boats. These huge boats are then painstakingly crafted to the finest detail, said to take centuries of work. When done, the boat is taken to a portal to the Astral, and then to another, special portal into Water. The boat, being of pure Fire, promptly explodes into a hundred-thousand pieces. I scoffed at this flagrant waste, yet each of the Defilers claimed they were striking great blows against Water. They claim that they are sponsored by the Sultan of the Efreet, and indeed possess considerable material wealth. Moreover, they use the reality altering power of Wishing to unhallow each boat before sending it into water, claiming that the Sultan personally grants this wish."