Random DM nagging.

[Anastasia]

Is it possible to make a Greater and Superior version of Spell Theft? (Complete Scoundrel, page 104)

Also, do you think we could make a Greater version of Harmonic Void?

Sure, knock yourself out. Throw together what you want and I'll work with it.

Also, I'm looking into getting some more utility spells -- I'm not really worried too much about them being inaccessible right now, but here's a general idea:

*No SR
*No Save (I realize this will probably put it already in 10th or higher category)
*Some sort of short-term disable (stun for 1 round?)
*Some sort of drawback so it isn't just overpowered, like maybe it stuns the user for 2 rounds or something?

I'm willing to work with whatever, I could live with SR but no save if that might make it more in line.

No save, no SR shutdown status spells aren't going to happen without a hell of a mitigating factor. This is one of those MAD sort of things. If you use them, the DM's free to use them and odds are you lose big time sooner or later. It might be fun to no save, no SR stun some devil nobles, but it'll suck when the reprisal uses the same idea so you all get TPKed and can't do thing one about it.

When they do happen, they're generally for one of a few reasons.

1. A response to something you do, usually something that's not easy to do or exploiting an unusual weakness. These can often be considered drawbacks to certain tactics and vulnerabilities. I don't use these often. They can be considered the cost of doing business for certain things.

2. Certain non-reproducible and unique racial powers. These are rarest of them all and used with great forbearance and consideration on my end, and rarely with status that outright shut you down like stun or daze. Statuses that don't instantly leave you helpless are more common here. I mean a devil with an aura that automatically stuns you for 3 rounds with no way to stop it is powerful, but it's not really well balanced. A devil with aura that automatically slows you when you're within 30ft of it is far saner, and while nasty, isn't the sort of thing the DM throws you expecting a TPK.

3. Extremely rare circumstances, such as a mortal directly touching a deity's life force. Things like this are so outside of the norm that they're case by case. If you're in a situation like this, you're probably doomed anyway. Heck, Muirfinn and Lief were in a situation like that and they still got saves. Saves with a DC they needed a 20 to beat, but still.

So think very carefully about that sort of spell before you present one to me.

EDIT: Also, are the Aurora projects still in progress? Do we need rolls there or something?

I believe they were. If I'm in error and the Aurora topic hasn't been updated for them, please tell me immediately and they'll get fixed. Include nagging quotes of the projects on the hook.

[Anastasia]

No no! No! You've got it all wrong! Cthulhu just wants to be your friend!

It's the ponies you have to watch out for.

Ponies don't exist in Balmuria. You're safe.

[Nephrite]

Here is the post Discussing making the checks. It was also brought up if they scored high enough that there would be discounts, so Moore can help out with skillchecks as needed to give bonuses to those if you want.

As for the spell, I completely understand that creating a "save or die" spell has a lot of ramifications, which is why I was trying to think of good mitigating factors for them, like maybe it makes you and your target invulnerable (like a time stop but it only works on you and the target?) or something similar.

Basically, I'm trying to find a way to make good utility spells but not worry that I haven't pumped the DCs of all my spells up by 10.

[Nephrite]

Here's an attempt at a stronger version of Harmonic Void:


Greater Harmonic Void
Abjuration
Level: Bard 8,
Components: V, S,
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: 80 ft.
Area: 80-ft.-radius spherical emanation, centered on you
Duration: Concentration, up to 1 round/level
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

This spell functions as Harmonic Void except that it functions on all spells, even those without verbal components and the DC for the Concentration check is 30 + the spell's level.


I'm not entirely sure that even upping the DC to 30+spell level accomplishes a lot, but perhaps it's better used as a group crowd control spell rather than thinking of it as a single target spell. It's also annoying to your allies, so eh.



Anti-Magic Sound
Evocation [Sonic]
Level: Bard 8, Sorc/Wiz 9
Components: V, S,
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Long (400 ft. + 40 ft./level)
Area: Cylinder, (20 ft radius, 50ft high)
Duration: 1 round/5 caster levels
Saving Throw: No
Spell Resistance: Yes

You create a column of discordant, piercing sound that warps magic in an area. Creatures caught within this area cannot use magic or Supernatural abilities as the sounds created by this spell are so disharmonious. This effect does not stop any magic that is already affecting creatures within this area or stop any active magic effects already in an area.

I feel like this one is balanced since nothing really prevents someone from just walking out of it. Now, of course, if you're stuck there with a grapple and then this gets dropped on you...

Both spells are rather similar, but I think they're good on their own merits because they do different things and can be used in different ways, but I figured I'd post them both anyway and see if either one is good enough.

[Nephrite]

Magic Scrambler
Evocation [Sonic]
Level: Bard 7, Sorcerer 7, Wizard 7
Components: V, S,
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Effect: Ray
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: Yes

Your palm emits a ray of sonic energy at an enemy. You must succeed on a ranged touch attack. If you succeed, your opponent is knocked prone. In addition to this, any creature struck by this suffers 50% spell failure for 1d4 rounds. Deaf enemies or those protected from sonic attacks are immune to this spell.

[Yuthirin]

THIS IS A REMINDER

Things Dune & I discussed last night: Finding a way to give Calleigh actual character levels and make the dynamic duo more overpowered.

1. Outsider HD
2. Character levels in either Ranger or Psychic Warrior

THIS WAS A REMINDER

[Corwin]

Finally caught up on the other threads! Hate to be a nag, but would Hanna die from that attack? Given temp hp, her dr 8/-, rage and fortunate fate her hp wouldn't go past her negative con. She also has the immediate action close wounds spell that could help tip her over and being healing, stop from deteriorating even if she's the only healer in the group.

[Ebiris]

Never mind that, she has improved uncanny dodge. So none of that sneak attack damage should have hit.

[Anastasia]

Here is the post Discussing making the checks. It was also brought up if they scored high enough that there would be discounts, so Moore can help out with skillchecks as needed to give bonuses to those if you want.

Okay, then get together, get the rolls and tell me the final results.

As for the spell, I completely understand that creating a "save or die" spell has a lot of ramifications, which is why I was trying to think of good mitigating factors for them, like maybe it makes you and your target invulnerable (like a time stop but it only works on you and the target?) or something similar.

Basically, I'm trying to find a way to make good utility spells but not worry that I haven't pumped the DCs of all my spells up by 10.

Just bear in mind that things you all do is fair game for the enemies to do. I'd rather not raise the escalation stakes that high, since sooner or later it bones all of you a lot more than it bones me. A baddie or boss dying easily? I can work with that. A few PC deaths because of the same tactics used against you? A lot more of a problem, especially if it's something you couldn't do anything about.

[Anastasia]

Here's an attempt at a stronger version of Harmonic Void:

Greater Harmonic Void
Abjuration
Level: Bard 8,
Components: V, S,
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: 80 ft.
Area: 80-ft.-radius spherical emanation, centered on you
Duration: Concentration, up to 1 round/level
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

This spell functions as Harmonic Void except that it functions on all spells, even those without verbal components and the DC for the Concentration check is 30 + the spell's level.


I'm not entirely sure that even upping the DC to 30+spell level accomplishes a lot, but perhaps it's better used as a group crowd control spell rather than thinking of it as a single target spell. It's also annoying to your allies, so eh.

As a good rule of thumb for Concentration checks when you want them to be relevant, I'd suggest assuming your level + 13 is where you want to start. Casters are going to maximize Concentration the large majority of the time, so aim for that. In this case it depends on the spell, so I'd go 35 + spell level instead.

Greater Harmonic Void
Abjuration
Level: Brd 8
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: 80ft
Area: 80ft radius spherical emanation, centered on you
Duration: Concentration, up to 1 round/level
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

This spell functions as harmonic void, except that it affects all spells, even those without verbal components. The DC for the Concetration check is 35 + the spell's level.

Anti-Magic Sound
Evocation [Sonic]
Level: Bard 8, Sorc/Wiz 9
Components: V, S,
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Long (400 ft. + 40 ft./level)
Area: Cylinder, (20 ft radius, 50ft high)
Duration: 1 round/5 caster levels
Saving Throw: No
Spell Resistance: Yes

You create a column of discordant, piercing sound that warps magic in an area. Creatures caught within this area cannot use magic or Supernatural abilities as the sounds created by this spell are so disharmonious. This effect does not stop any magic that is already affecting creatures within this area or stop any active magic effects already in an area.

I feel like this one is balanced since nothing really prevents someone from just walking out of it. Now, of course, if you're stuck there with a grapple and then this gets dropped on you...

Both spells are rather similar, but I think they're good on their own merits because they do different things and can be used in different ways, but I figured I'd post them both anyway and see if either one is good enough.

Before I get into this one, which spell are you basing it on?

[Anastasia]

Magic Scrambler
Evocation [Sonic]
Level: Bard 7, Sorcerer 7, Wizard 7
Components: V, S,
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Effect: Ray
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: Yes

Your palm emits a ray of sonic energy at an enemy. You must succeed on a ranged touch attack. If you succeed, your opponent is knocked prone. In addition to this, any creature struck by this suffers 50% spell failure for 1d4 rounds. Deaf enemies or those protected from sonic attacks are immune to this spell.

Isn't there an antimagic ray or some such that's similar to this?

[Nephrite]

To answer the first question, I was using Antimagic Field as the original base, but changed it around a bit.

To the second, yes, there is in fact quite literally antimagic ray. It's a Sorc/Wiz 7 spell. It's a touch attack that then has a Will Save otherwise you act like you're in an antimagic field.

[Nephrite]

Current Projects:

Add Living Spell Laboratory: 50,000 gold; 2 DC 45 K:A checks, 2 DC 45 Appraise checks; 3 days.
Disjunction trap for the gates, fires before the magic missiles (CL 20): 100,000 gold; 2 DC 35 spellcraft checks; 1 DC 35 K:A check; 6 days.
Repair training rooms: 30,000 gold; 2 DC 30 K:A checks; 1 DC 32 K:A&E check; 4 days.


Jaela Take 10 K:A = 56
Afina Take 10 Spellcraft = 51
Vul'lath Appraise Take 10 = 47
Tryll K:A&E Take 10 = 31

Moore will boost anyone he can with Shared Talent (+2 untyped), Inspire Competence (+8 morale) and Song of Fortune (+5 untyped)for a total of +15 to their roll. If he can only do one or two he'll pick the A&E roll and the K:A rolls to boost them higher.

I presume people are also aiding with these so I'd guess +2 to the rolls as well.

[Anastasia]

THIS IS A REMINDER

Things Dune & I discussed last night: Finding a way to give Calleigh actual character levels and make the dynamic duo more overpowered.

1. Outsider HD
2. Character levels in either Ranger or Psychic Warrior

THIS WAS A REMINDER

Just going to post a chat log to frame the discussion before I go on, since I'm feeling lazy.

<Yu> is there a way to get her actual real HD?
> Not without also making her an animal companion or other shenanigans. Familiars don't get hit additional dice RAW. Last time there was a serious familiar - another courre actually - she did get a single level up due to special circumstances and a few special powers through plot, but it didn't change a lot.
> I dunno if there's anyway to give a familiar psicrystal powers and if that would help at all, I'd have to check.
<Yu> I just wanna pump her full of feats
<Yu> outsider HD
<Yu> It wouldn't, they're virtually the same
<Yu> I don't actually want to give her class levels
> Paste your build real quick?
<Yu> It's be hilarious, but noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooot a good idea
<Yu> way OP
<Yu> http://www.soulriders.net/forum/index.php/topic,103689.0.html
<Yu> I mean if I could, I'd give her Ranger levels, spellless and animal companion ACFed away
<Yu> or possibly psychic warrior
> Post in nagging that you're interested in that and I'll get into it when I have a few. I need to do my homework on it.
<Yu> I'm always interested in advancement, brah
> Aren't we all?
> But seriously I need to do my homework on familiar shenanigans, I haven't done that in awhile. Crystal does mount/companion which is really a different bailiwick.
<Yu> ok

So I did my homework and there's really nothing to advance a familiar in hit dice short of stacking another progression onto them (such as Hope being both an animal companion and a special mount) that grants hit dice progression. On one hand, this makes it difficult. On the other, much like Marie, Calleigh is an actual character who sees a lot of adventure.

First of all, no class levels. That's just adding way too much to balance, so just as well that you don't want to.

Second of all, are you tied to your psicrystal? Maybe sacrifice that progression to empower Calleigh in some way? A template, some hit dice, something like that?

[Anastasia]

To answer the first question, I was using Antimagic Field as the original base, but changed it around a bit.

Okay. I'm going to tentatively bump it to sor/wiz 10 pending me doing some homework.

Anti-Magic Sound
Evocation [Sonic]
Level: Brd 8, Sor/Wiz 10
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Long (400ft + 40ft/level)
Area: Cylinder (20ft radius, 50ft high)
Duration: 1 round/level
Saving Throw: No
Spell Resistance: Yes

You create a column of discordant, piercing sound that warps magic in an area. Creatures caught within this area cannot use magic or Supernatural abilities as the sounds created by this spell are so disharmonious. This effect does not stop any magic that is already affecting creatures within this area or stop any active magic effects already in an area.

To the second, yes, there is in fact quite literally antimagic ray. It's a Sorc/Wiz 7 spell. It's a touch attack that then has a Will Save otherwise you act like you're in an antimagic field.

Do bards get antimagic field?