Random DM nagging.

[Anastasia]

On a deep review, I'm going to disallow that feat but open the door to making something reasonably custom to do it - a custom feat or some such, since I don't think Archivist has much support. Whip something up.

Intuitive Archivist

Intuitive Archivist [General]
Prerequisite: Archivist level 1st
Benefit: You now use your Charisma bonus (if any) in place of Wisdom for your Archivist spellcasting, such as to determine save DCs and bonus spells per day.

I'd include a prereq of Charisma 13, but it's not needed. If you select this you know what you're getting into.

[Anastasia]

Per Cor's semi-request.

Endurance of the Dragon Princess
Transmutation
Level: Sor/Wiz 8
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: Creature touched
Duration: 1 hour/level
Saving Throw: Fortitude negates (harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)

As you cast this spell, a miniature image of Seira lands on the targets chest and is absorbed. The target of this spell gains a +4 insight bonus to Constitution.

Beauty of the Dragon Princess
Transmutation
Level: Sor/Wiz 8
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: Creature touched
Duration: 1 hour/level
Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)

Drawing on the inspiration of the Dragon Princess Seira, you imbue the creature touched with a drop of her draconic beauty. The target of this spell gains a +4 insight bonus to Charisma.

Uh huh.

targets chest

You can see where my thoughts are going. But childishness aside, I'm fine with those if you want to complete the set.

[Corwin]

Seira would probably approve....

[Corwin]

Anything on the Greater Divine Power second draft? I know it's messy, but it'd be pretty useful if it existed. And if not, I need to think of another lvl12 War spell. War 13, too, probably.

In other questions, I'm inquiring about the interaction between Delay Spell and Delayed Blast Fireball. Can I use a Delayed Delayed Fireball? >_>

If so, does it work as I presume (ie final spell is delayed between 2 to 10 rounds)?

[Corwin]

Since I'm asking about interactions, how do split ray and twin spell interact? Similarly to empower and maximize, resulting in the best outcome (split first, then doubling the new amount of rays)?

[Corwin]

As per request~

Wall of Attraction

Spoiler: ShowHide

Conjuration (Creation)
Level:    Sor/Wiz 8
Components:    V, S, M
Casting Time:    1 standard action
Range:    Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Effect:    Magnetically-charged iron wall whose area is up to one 5-ft. square/level; see text
Duration:    See text
Saving Throw:    See text
Spell Resistance:    No

The spell functions like Wall of Iron, except one flat side of it chosen by the caster has the following effect:

The wall pulls iron or steel objects towards itself. The magnetic forces draw all metal objects within a 30ft range towards itself with an effective Strength score of 30 (and so can target items weighing up to 8,000 pounds). Any unattended and unsecured items fly directly and safely towards it, but drawing an item toward it that another creature is holding (such as a weapon) requires a successful disarm attempt (see page 155 of the Player's Handbook). The wall uses the caster's base attack bonus and its own Strength modifier (+10) and such attempts do not provoke attacks of opportunity, even if you use magnetism against a creature in an adjacent square, although casting the spell might still provoke attacks of opportunity. If it succeeds on the disarm attempt, the weapon flies from your opponent's hand towards it. If it targets an item that is attended but not held, such as a weapon at someone's belt, the creature bearing the item gets a Reflex save to hang onto it, dropping whatever else is in one hand at the time unless it has a free hand. On a failed save, the item flies from the creature's hand towards the wall. Otherwise, make a disarm attempt as above. If an item is secured in some way, it makes a Strength check (using the ray's +10 bonus) to break or burst whatever holds it.

The magnetism drains within 1 round/level, leaving behind a wall as if summoned by Wall of Iron.

Like any iron wall, this wall is subject to rust, perforation, and other natural phenomena.
Material Component

A small piece of sheet iron plus gold dust worth 50 gp (1 pound of gold dust) inlaid with a fragment of a lodestone.

[Iron Dragoon]

Dune, still sorta waiting on answers to these:

The cost to make it into an Ioun Stone; the only reference I see for Ioun Stones is a No space limitation thing, but that doesn't say anything about it levitating or other Ioun Stone stuff:
http://www.soulriders.net/forum/index.php/topic,101784.msg1097244.html#msg1097244

The cost to increase uses/day; this is sorta answered on the SRD page, but I'm not sure what the full formula is for Divide by (5 divided by charges per day):
http://www.soulriders.net/forum/index.php/topic,101729.msg1096971.html#msg1096971

[Yuthirin]

So Iddy and I are working on a thing. A real big thing.

The Sunfire Purifier

The sunfire purifier is a golem, fashioned into the shape of the dreaded tarrasque. Built by a conglomeration of Aurora's golem crafters, Lathander's smiths, and Waukeen's (something), this golem is designed to tear through large amounts of opposition and soak massive amounts of damage, as well as a way to physically drag sunlight to a place without it. It is the culmination of wrath against those who would snuff out the sun and see the growth of commerce destroyed.



   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   

Size/Type:	Colossal Construct
Hit Dice:	48d10+48+96+144+80 (848 hp)
Initiative:	-1 (Dex)
Speed:	20 ft. (can't run)
Armor Class:	57 (-2 size, -1 Dex, +50 natural
Base Attack/CMB/CMD:	+48/+75/85
Attack:	Slam +66 melee (6d10+54), Bite +61 melee (6d8+2d6+27)
Full Attack:	2 slams +66 melee (6d10+54), Bite +61 melee (6d8+2d6+27)
Space/Reach:	15 ft./15 ft.
Special Attacks:	Trample, bask in my radiance, the breath of life, lunge.
Special Qualities:	Damage reduction 40/adamantine and epic, fast healing 25, magic immunity, unmovable, crushing blows, toughness, constructed toughness, construct traits, the power of the sun, consumptive carapace, golden idolatry, baleful gaze, improved grab, into the sunfire engine, the breath of light.
Saves:	Fort +39, Ref +18, Will +19
Skills:	Jump +31
Feats:	Toughness(B)
Epic Feats:	Epic Toughness(B)
Abilities:	Str 64, Dex 9, Con Ø, Int Ø, Wis 11, Cha 1

Project Barrier (Sp)
As a swift action, an adamantine golem can mimic the effects of a wall of iron spell (caster level 58th), except that the wall and any iron from it vanishes after 10 minutes.

An adamantine golem automatically succeeds on the Strength check to tip a wall of iron over.

Trample (Ex)
As a standard action during its turn each round, the adamantine golem can literally run over an opponent at least one size category smaller than itself. The trample deals 8d12+60 points of bludgeoning damage. Trampled opponents can either attempt attacks of opportunity at a -4 penalty or Reflex saves (DC 62) for half damage. The DC is Strength-based and includes a +4 racial bonus.

Crushing Blows (Ex)
The slams of an adamantine golem hit with bone-shattering force. An adamantine golem applies double its Strength modifier to damage rolls with its slam attack. It threatens a critical hit on a roll of 15-20 and inflicts triple damage on a critical hit. 

Unmovable (Ex)
The bulk of an adamantine golem is almost impossible to push, trip or move. It cannot be tripped, bull rushed or knocked prone, nor can effects move it back.

Toughness (Ex)
An adamantine golem is noted for its sheer toughness and rugged endurance. It gains a +20 bonus to Fortitude saves and may substitute a Fortitude save for a Reflex save. It has an additional 3 hit points per hit die.

Magic Immunity (Ex)
An adamantine golem is immune to all magical and supernatural effects.

Constructed Toughness (Ex)
An adamantine golem gains toughness and epic toughness as bonus feats. It has maximum hit points per hit die.

The Power of the Sun (Ex)
The soft golden glow of sunlight emanates from the sunfire purifier's claws and teeth. All of the sunfire purifier's natural attacks have the holy property, and are treated as good, adamantine, and epic for the purposes of overcoming damage reduction. The sunfire purifier's natural attacks have a +14 sacred bonus. This is a natural occurence due to the power imbued into its body. In addition, the golem's bite attack deals an extra 2d6 damage as holy, due to overflow from the sunfire engine inside its chest.

Consumptive Carapace (Ex)
Solid stone and metal consumed is converted into adamantine. Grants an additional fast healing 5 for each ton of stone and metal consumed. Lasts 1d4 rounds. In addition, its damage reduction is boosted by 1 for each 10 tons consumed. Each stack of this effect lasts for one hour and cannot be refreshed.

Bask In My Radiance (Ex)
Every 1d6+1 rounds, the Sun-Touched Gold that covers the sunfire purifier's carapace pulses, emitting a blast of sunfire in an 80 ft. radius.

Golden Idolatry (Ex)
Evil outsiders banished or destroyed by Bask In My Radiance have a chance to summon a golden creature of Waukeen in its place. Upon destruction or banishment, there is a 20% chance that the space occupied by the creature will have a summoned creature in it the next round. On a roll of 1d4, 1-3 will summon a golden lion, and 4 will summon a golden ferrumach.

Golden Roar (Ex)
Once every 1d4+1 rounds, the sunfire purifier can let loose a grinding cacophanic roar as it exposes the sunfire engine's noise to the world as a swift action. It releases this blast in a 25 ft. cone directly in front of itself, and those caught in the blast take 16d6 sonic damage and are deafened (DC 55).

Baleful Gaze (Ex)
The sunfire purifier has three eyes; one mounted on each side of its head, and a single large eye in the center. The central eye of the sunfire purifier functions as the eye of an advanced astral dreadnought, projecting a constant cone of antimagic field, up to 120 feet away so long as the eye is open. The sunfire purifier can redirect its gaze as a free action once per turn.

Improved Grab (Ex)
To use this ability, the sunfire purifier must hit a Huge or smaller opponent with its bite attack. It can then make a CMB check as a free action to start a grapple without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it wins the check, it establishes a hold and can try to swallow the foe the following round.

Lunge (Ex)
While the sunfire purifier cannot run, it is capable of great forward leaps due to its powerful legs. As a full round action, the golem can leap forward. Doing so triples the distance normally covered by such a leap. If the golem ends its jump facing a creature, it may choose to make a either make a bull rush or a full attack against that creature at a +2 bonus, as though having charged at that creature. This ability ignores difficult terrain and intervening creatures, and can be used once per minute. This ability confers a +10 to the golem's jump check.

Into the Sunfire Engine (Ex)
Creatures and objects that fail a second CMD check against the sunfire purifier are swallowed. Such creatures are dropped into the golem's internals, which are impossibly bright and filled with churning holy power and threshing metal gears. Swallowed creatures are blinded (DC 60) and take 16d8 damage for each round spent inside, half as holy and half as crushing. This damages rises to 24d8 if the sunfire purifier eats at least one ton of stone after swallowing a creature. Creatures inside must smash their way through threshing blades and grinding gears by dealing 180 damage or making a Strength check (DC 60) to hold the gears back. They can then attempt to smash or cut their way free through the purifier's hide. As the sunfire purifier is not a living creature, there is no muscular action to close this hole. However, the purifier's fast healing restores the internal mechanisms near instantly, and thus requires any subsequent creature to force their way past once again. The sunfire purifier's gullet can hold 2 Huge, 8 Large, 32 Medium, 128 Small, or 512 Tiny or smaller creatures.

The Breath of Light (Ex)
Once per hour, the sunfire purifier can empty the constantly-regenerating reservoir of sunfire and holy power within its sunfire engine. In doing so, it spews forth a tremendous gout of concentrated sunfire in a 120 ft. x 10 ft. line. All living creatures in the purifier's gullet and all detritus swallowed in the last round are expelled into the gout, spraying out 60 feet in front of the purifier. All creatures, including those expelled, take 36d6+48 holy damage and are subject to a banish spell (caster level 25). Using this ability forces the central eye closed until the golem's next turn. 

------------------------------

Sun-Touched Gold
Gold purified in the fires of the Sun, the creation of sun-touched gold is a secret known only to those who serve Lathander. Unlike normal gold, sun-touched gold is a brilliant, shining yellow akin o the sun in the sky. This is due to the fact that it contains the very energy of the sun, imbued into the gold's physical form.

Sun-touched gold is the only material that can safely contain sunfire.

Sunfire
The raw power of Lathander brought to bear against those who would defile or snuff out the Sun's light. It is deadly to the evil, while bolstering those of good heart. The light of sunfire bolsters the forces of good, instilling in them great health. Creatures of good alignment gain fast healing 6 and 3d8 temporary HP while standing in the light shed by sunfire, and for 4 rounds thereafter. Evil creatures are affected as though struck by an empowered and maximized sunburst spell (caster level 25). Additionally, clerics of Lathander within the light have all their spells extended for free, as well as their spells with the healing descriptor being empowered, due to the everlasting nature of the Sun.

[Anastasia]

Okay, commentary and corrections.

0. Some formatting issues, I'm not going to comment not these unless they interfere with more than just formatting. You know you do too much custom DM work when things like this get to you.
1. Where does the 144 in bonus hit points come from? I see toughness, epic toughness and construct size bonus to AC, but I'm not sure where that's coming from. - Update, it's from toughness, the special quality taken from the adamantine golem. Okay.
2. I note it has good BAB progression (as a fighter) rather than fair BAB progression (as a cleric or a typical construct). Is this intended or an error? If it's intended, it should have a special quality noting this.
3. CMB should be 83 (48 BAB, 8 size modifier, 27 Strength modifier).
4. Likewise, CMD should be 92 (48 BAB, 8 size modifier, 27 Strength modifier, 10 default addition, -1 Dexterity modifier).
5. Attack roll modifier for the slam should be +67 instead of +66 (48 BAB, 27 Strength modifier, -8 size modifier). Side note: I really suggest using a dicebot or calculator to do this math. It looks like easy  math, but mental mistakes happen. You'd be surprised at how many little errors you prevent that way.
6. Bite's damage should be formatted as 6d8+27+2d6. The extra damage dice being formatted that way helps keep extra damage sorted and separate from normal damage dice, which matters for things like multiplying (or not) those dice on a critical hit.
7. Space/Reach should be 30ft/30ft.
8. I'd consider raising the fast healing a little bit. 30 sounds about right.
9. My math on the golem's saves come out to fort+35, ref+14 and will+15. I don't see a special quality or ability giving +4 to those to make up the difference. Is it getting that from somewhere and it's not listed, or did I miss it, or is it a math error?
10. Walk me through the math on how you got its Jump skill modifier of +31, please.
11. Project barrier is still present but it is not present in special attacks or special qualities. Is it meant to be gone or meant to be in there?
12. Trample is a full round action, not a standard action. Is this meant to be an exception unique to the golem?
13. Trample's math is off. The damage of a trample is equal to the creature's slam damage plus 1.5 times its Strength modifier. It should be 6d10+40. Likewise, the Reflex save DC is 10+24+27+4=65, instead of the DC 62 you have noted. (Note, the C&M adamantine golem deals only its Strength modifier on trample. This is an exception.)
14. Depending on design, crushing blows should arguably apply to its bite attack. More on this later.
15. The +14 sacred bonus to natural attack rolls isn't included in the creature's attack and full attack line. That would adjust up to +81 total.
16. So how does consumptive carapace work? How is solid stone and metal consumed? Does it have a cap to the bonuses granted if sufficient tons of stone or metal are consumed (it should, uncapped things can lead to problems and abuses)? So the duration for the fast healing is meant to be 1d4 rounds and the damage reduction boost for 1 hour? As written I don't really grasp how the ability works or is meant to interface with the greater creature in general.
17. I'd suggest putting bask in my radiance on a set timer instead of a variable one. This isn't essential, but reducing extra dicerolling is usually a good idea to make running the creature simpler.
18. Speaking of, bask in my radiance should clearly explain what the blast of sunfire does or note which ability does.
19. Rilmani aren't used in Balmuria, so summoning one with golden idolatry is inappropriate. More on this one below.
20. How do you get the DC for golden roar?
21. It's goldenfire, not sunfire.
22. Sunfire tends to be destructive, not restorative. Having it bolster and heal good creatures isn't appropriate, though the damage to evil ones is entirely fitting.
Edit: 23: Lunge needs some reworking with how Jump works, running starts and so forth.

Now to actual design thoughts and critique.

I like the hit dice and hit point range you got. HP's a touch low, but if you semi-awaken this like planned, a few epic toughnesses would more than compensate.

While not essential, I would consider adding a basic fly speed. It's critical at this level of play, and if I exclude it from an epic creature, it's usually an intentional choice (such as my tarrasque rewrite).

To quote from IRC: A very loose rule of thumb in higher epic design is to go for to hit equal to 150% of total hit dice for a creature that relies on them. So a 40 HD creature should have a minimum of +60 on its primary attacks. Isn't always right and often needs tweaking, but it's a good baseline to keep in the back of your head. +67 is a little low for a big golem that's going to hit things a lot, though the +14 sacred bonus would more than compensate.

To be entirely honest, I think the base creature is weaker for using adamantine golems as a stepping stool instead of going 100% original. There's some good things here, which don't always meld well with the stuff from the adamantine golem. The overall design comes across as busy and over-cluttered and that's one reason why.

Quick thought here: The golem's themes are being a big, sunfire spewing golem in the shape of a tarrasque. The design should generally connect to that.

If it isn't already meant to be dropped, I'd drop project barrier. It simply doesn't fit the creature's theme at all.

Trample's a solid addition to the creature and well worth having.

I'd drop crushing blows and fold bits of it into the power of the sun if needed. Make it one omnibus ability affecting its natural attacks rather than two split ones. I might also split the holy bite bit of the power of the sun into a small, separate ability, though this isn't mandatory. Finally, I'd tone down the sacred bonus to attack rolls. It has a very high Strength score already, +81 total to slams feels a bit much for a 48 hit dice construct. However, I'd allow the sacred bonus (whatever it ends up being) apply to the damage of natural attacks as well and help merge/supersede parts of crushing blows.

I'd suggest dropping consumptive carapace. In addition to being poorly explained, I feel it's overly complicated and extraneous to the design. While I do give it points for connecting to the tarrasque's endless hunger, it has the problems noted above in addition to being a chore to track. Multiple durations for various things, fiddling with baseline numbers and adding a lot mover overhead to running the golem isn't a good thing.

Bask in my radiance is a good, thematic ability and I like the flavor. However, between that, its roar, its breath weapon, its summoning on kill ability and its gaze, it has a ton of things going on to keep track of. I'd suggest keeping this one, though, it's good and on target. Do note the comments above about it.

I'd flat drop golden idolatry. It's high upkeep for minimal gain. It's a lot of dicerolling to chase a 20% chance of success, summoning minor creatures like lions or a CR 9 ferrumach isn't terribly relevant at this level of play nor worth the added difficulty in running the golem. Additionally, a golem composed of pure goldenfire and holy power summons a neutral outsider instead of a good aligned outsider. Huh?

I would suggest combining golden roar and the breath of life into one breath weapon. Possibly one with multiple modes rather than a single one, but something to keep the abilities and make it smoother to run.

Eye's off the theme of the creature, but since you're splicing in that giant astral dreadnought eye, whatever.

Lunge is a nice link to the tarrasque's ability to run once per minute. I'm not sure about the mechanics - it'll take more work than I have in me at the moment - but I do like the flavor connection of it.

There's more, but I'm tired and this ran way long as it is, plus I'm sure people who have replies in nagging ahead of this one are wondering why I did you first.

[Yuthirin]

Okay, commentary and corrections.

0. Some formatting issues, I'm not going to comment not these unless they interfere with more than just formatting. You know you do too much custom DM work when things like this get to you.

Just tell me, stop dancing around it.

1. Where does the 144 in bonus hit points come from? I see toughness, epic toughness and construct size bonus to AC, but I'm not sure where that's coming from. - Update, it's from toughness, the special quality taken from the adamantine golem. Okay.

Great.

2. I note it has good BAB progression (as a fighter) rather than fair BAB progression (as a cleric or a typical construct). Is this intended or an error? If it's intended, it should have a special quality noting this.

What's the math for that?

3. CMB should be 83 (48 BAB, 8 size modifier, 27 Strength modifier).
4. Likewise, CMD should be 92 (48 BAB, 8 size modifier, 27 Strength modifier, 10 default addition, -1 Dexterity modifier).

Those are your numbers, taken from chat. You're arguing with yourself. Are you sure those numbers are correct? Can post chatlog if needed tonight.

5. Attack roll modifier for the slam should be +67 instead of +66 (48 BAB, 27 Strength modifier, -8 size modifier). Side note: I really suggest using a dicebot or calculator to do this math. It looks like easy  math, but mental mistakes happen. You'd be surprised at how many little errors you prevent that way.

I'll update it.

6. Bite's damage should be formatted as 6d8+27+2d6. The extra damage dice being formatted that way helps keep extra damage sorted and separate from normal damage dice, which matters for things like multiplying (or not) those dice on a critical hit.

Simple enough.

7. Space/Reach should be 30ft/30ft.

Okay.

8. I'd consider raising the fast healing a little bit. 30 sounds about right.

Not gonna argue with that.

9. My math on the golem's saves come out to fort+35, ref+14 and will+15. I don't see a special quality or ability giving +4 to those to make up the difference. Is it getting that from somewhere and it's not listed, or did I miss it, or is it a math error?

It's probably a math error.

10. Walk me through the math on how you got its Jump skill modifier of +31, please.

The base golem from your entry has a +14 modifier. This is a +20 bonus with a -6 penalty. Ramping up, the new golem's strength confer's 7 more points to the strength modifier. This gives us 21. +10 from Lunge = 31

11. Project barrier is still present but it is not present in special attacks or special qualities. Is it meant to be gone or meant to be in there?

Sorta. I hadn't removed anything from the base golem. You're right, it's not thematic and I'd been considering removing it altogether since I started this.

12. Trample is a full round action, not a standard action. Is this meant to be an exception unique to the golem?

Your entry doesn't specify. I made an assumption.

13. Trample's math is off. The damage of a trample is equal to the creature's slam damage plus 1.5 times its Strength modifier. It should be 6d10+40. Likewise, the Reflex save DC is 10+24+27+4=65, instead of the DC 62 you have noted. (Note, the C&M adamantine golem deals only its Strength modifier on trample. This is an exception.)

Yeah I didn't have the math for the DC or the damage, so I just eyeballed it. I was pretty close.

14. Depending on design, crushing blows should arguably apply to its bite attack. More on this later.

I thought about it. Thematically it would make sense, but I'm leery about becoming too cheesy. If you're into it, I'll include it in the next iteration.

15. The +14 sacred bonus to natural attack rolls isn't included in the creature's attack and full attack line. That would adjust up to +81 total.

Righto.

16. So how does consumptive carapace work? How is solid stone and metal consumed? Does it have a cap to the bonuses granted if sufficient tons of stone or metal are consumed (it should, uncapped things can lead to problems and abuses)? So the duration for the fast healing is meant to be 1d4 rounds and the damage reduction boost for 1 hour? As written I don't really grasp how the ability works or is meant to interface with the greater creature in general.

It turned out to be more complicated than I'd intended. Perhaps it would work better with a refreshing and stacking buff? Maybe the whole thing as an hour or so instead of the d4. It's designed to compliment the damage reduction and fast healing, in that the engine inside would convert matter into usable material to augment the body.

17. I'd suggest putting bask in my radiance on a set timer instead of a variable one. This isn't essential, but reducing extra dicerolling is usually a good idea to make running the creature simpler.

Can do. 3 rounds sound good? 4? 2? 1? Constant?

18. Speaking of, bask in my radiance should clearly explain what the blast of sunfire does or note which ability does.

Righto.

19. Rilmani aren't used in Balmuria, so summoning one with golden idolatry is inappropriate. More on this one below.

See below.

20. How do you get the DC for golden roar?

Made it up. It's just a placeholder since I don't have the math.

21. It's goldenfire, not sunfire.
22. Sunfire tends to be destructive, not restorative. Having it bolster and heal good creatures isn't appropriate, though the damage to evil ones is entirely fitting.

You know, I don't know what the differences between those two things are. Hell, I didn't even know you had sunfire in this setting. I made it up. It'd be great if you could explain them in detail, that way I'll know where I'm going with this and how to adapt the design.

Edit: 23: Lunge needs some reworking with how Jump works, running starts and so forth.

It can't run. There are no running starts. Is that not clear?

Now to actual design thoughts and critique.

I like the hit dice and hit point range you got. HP's a touch low, but if you semi-awaken this like planned, a few epic toughnesses would more than compensate.

I wanted to design something that would hold up moderately well if we chose not to awaken it.

While not essential, I would consider adding a basic fly speed. It's critical at this level of play, and if I exclude it from an epic creature, it's usually an intentional choice (such as my tarrasque rewrite).

I mean I'm okay with this if you are. I thought it was a bit much, but I can do it. Golden wings of burning sunlight, here we come.

To quote from IRC: A very loose rule of thumb in higher epic design is to go for to hit equal to 150% of total hit dice for a creature that relies on them. So a 40 HD creature should have a minimum of +60 on its primary attacks. Isn't always right and often needs tweaking, but it's a good baseline to keep in the back of your head. +67 is a little low for a big golem that's going to hit things a lot, though the +14 sacred bonus would more than compensate.

We can bump it to +20.

To be entirely honest, I think the base creature is weaker for using adamantine golems as a stepping stool instead of going 100% original. There's some good things here, which don't always meld well with the stuff from the adamantine golem. The overall design comes across as busy and over-cluttered and that's one reason why.

I used the golem because if its tremendous immunities. While this prevents magical healing, it also prevents nearly all forms of energy damage, as well as sub-DvR1+ magic. While Bel might be able to kill it, I doubt anything else will.

Quick thought here: The golem's themes are being a big, sunfire spewing golem in the shape of a tarrasque. The design should generally connect to that.

This is still a rough draft. It's by no means final, and Iddy and I are still kicking ideas at each other. Golden Idolatry and the roar are new. Not included here is a gravity well effect on the breath weapon that I couldn't figure out how to do without stupid levels of complication. Hundreds of bull rush attempts? Or just an effect like a tornado? Couldn't find a way I liked.

If it isn't already meant to be dropped, I'd drop project barrier. It simply doesn't fit the creature's theme at all.

I gotcha.

Trample's a solid addition to the creature and well worth having.

Think we could change Lunge into some sort of charge, that also tramples everything in a straight line?

I'd drop crushing blows and fold bits of it into the power of the sun if needed. Make it one omnibus ability affecting its natural attacks rather than two split ones. I might also split the holy bite bit of the power of the sun into a small, separate ability, though this isn't mandatory. Finally, I'd tone down the sacred bonus to attack rolls. It has a very high Strength score already, +81 total to slams feels a bit much for a 48 hit dice construct. However, I'd allow the sacred bonus (whatever it ends up being) apply to the damage of natural attacks as well and help merge/supersede parts of crushing blows.

Sounds good. I'm still open to tweaking stuff. If you think the strength is too high, say so.

I'd suggest dropping consumptive carapace. In addition to being poorly explained, I feel it's overly complicated and extraneous to the design. While I do give it points for connecting to the tarrasque's endless hunger, it has the problems noted above in addition to being a chore to track. Multiple durations for various things, fiddling with baseline numbers and adding a lot mover overhead to running the golem isn't a good thing.

Yeah, it is a bit of a thing. I'll probably pare it down to something smaller.

Bask in my radiance is a good, thematic ability and I like the flavor. However, between that, its roar, its breath weapon, its summoning on kill ability and its gaze, it has a ton of things going on to keep track of. I'd suggest keeping this one, though, it's good and on target. Do note the comments above about it.

I knew not everything would make the cut, so I threw a bunch of stuff up there to see what worked and what didn't. I'm rather pleased with Bask, the Engine, and the breath weapon.

I'd flat drop golden idolatry. It's high upkeep for minimal gain. It's a lot of dicerolling to chase a 20% chance of success, summoning minor creatures like lions or a CR 9 ferrumach isn't terribly relevant at this level of play nor worth the added difficulty in running the golem. Additionally, a golem composed of pure goldenfire and holy power summons a neutral outsider instead of a good aligned outsider. Huh?

This was more of an attempt to nod at Waukeen, who we'd originally thought to include in the design along with Lathander. It's looking less and less like she'll be needed though, so I'll probably scratch her stuff out of the golem. It was added on at the last minute, so it's super rough.

I would suggest combining golden roar and the breath of life into one breath weapon. Possibly one with multiple modes rather than a single one, but something to keep the abilities and make it smoother to run.

I'll probably combine it and speed up the frequency. Once every 10 minutes, maybe. Once an hour will see use at or near the beginning of large-scale combat, and then not again. If the fight for Lifasa goes the way I think it will, once every 10 minutes will be a lot better.

Eye's off the theme of the creature, but since you're splicing in that giant astral dreadnought eye, whatever.

I'm aware it's a bit off. I'm working on it. Maybe an intense beam of sunlight that washes away magic? Like a metaphysical bleaching effect?

Lunge is a nice link to the tarrasque's ability to run once per minute. I'm not sure about the mechanics - it'll take more work than I have in me at the moment - but I do like the flavor connection of it.

Yeah it needs love.

There's more, but I'm tired and this ran way long as it is, plus I'm sure people who have replies in nagging ahead of this one are wondering why I did you first.

Because I posted this and you went to it. And then you ignored everything else all weekend! Whose fault is that? :P

[Anastasia]

Per Cor's semi-request.

Endurance of the Dragon Princess
Transmutation
Level: Sor/Wiz 8
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: Creature touched
Duration: 1 hour/level
Saving Throw: Fortitude negates (harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)

As you cast this spell, a miniature image of Seira lands on the targets chest and is absorbed. The target of this spell gains a +4 insight bonus to Constitution.

Beauty of the Dragon Princess
Transmutation
Level: Sor/Wiz 8
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: Creature touched
Duration: 1 hour/level
Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)

Drawing on the inspiration of the Dragon Princess Seira, you imbue the creature touched with a drop of her draconic beauty. The target of this spell gains a +4 insight bonus to Charisma.

Uh huh.

targets chest

You can see where my thoughts are going. But childishness aside, I'm fine with those if you want to complete the set.

Added to the spell collection.

[Anastasia]

Anything on the Greater Divine Power second draft? I know it's messy, but it'd be pretty useful if it existed. And if not, I need to think of another lvl12 War spell. War 13, too, probably.

In other questions, I'm inquiring about the interaction between Delay Spell and Delayed Blast Fireball. Can I use a Delayed Delayed Fireball? >_>

If so, does it work as I presume (ie final spell is delayed between 2 to 10 rounds)?

By +8 bonus I meant like a +8 bonus to hit or whatever, or a suitable enhancement to Strength. Not to BAB, level + whatever to BAB is one of those things I don't want to do for balance reasons.

[Anastasia]

In other questions, I'm inquiring about the interaction between Delay Spell and Delayed Blast Fireball. Can I use a Delayed Delayed Fireball? >_>

If so, does it work as I presume (ie final spell is delayed between 2 to 10 rounds)?

Sure, I'll allow it unless there's some way to abuse it horribly that you exploit. It seems mildly useful at best.

[Anastasia]

As per request~

Wall of Attraction

Spoiler: ShowHide

Conjuration (Creation)
Level:    Sor/Wiz 8
Components:    V, S, M
Casting Time:    1 standard action
Range:    Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Effect:    Magnetically-charged iron wall whose area is up to one 5-ft. square/level; see text
Duration:    See text
Saving Throw:    See text
Spell Resistance:    No

The spell functions like Wall of Iron, except one flat side of it chosen by the caster has the following effect:

The wall pulls iron or steel objects towards itself. The magnetic forces draw all metal objects within a 30ft range towards itself with an effective Strength score of 30 (and so can target items weighing up to 8,000 pounds). Any unattended and unsecured items fly directly and safely towards it, but drawing an item toward it that another creature is holding (such as a weapon) requires a successful disarm attempt (see page 155 of the Player's Handbook). The wall uses the caster's base attack bonus and its own Strength modifier (+10) and such attempts do not provoke attacks of opportunity, even if you use magnetism against a creature in an adjacent square, although casting the spell might still provoke attacks of opportunity. If it succeeds on the disarm attempt, the weapon flies from your opponent's hand towards it. If it targets an item that is attended but not held, such as a weapon at someone's belt, the creature bearing the item gets a Reflex save to hang onto it, dropping whatever else is in one hand at the time unless it has a free hand. On a failed save, the item flies from the creature's hand towards the wall. Otherwise, make a disarm attempt as above. If an item is secured in some way, it makes a Strength check (using the ray's +10 bonus) to break or burst whatever holds it.

The magnetism drains within 1 round/level, leaving behind a wall as if summoned by Wall of Iron.

Like any iron wall, this wall is subject to rust, perforation, and other natural phenomena.
Material Component

A small piece of sheet iron plus gold dust worth 50 gp (1 pound of gold dust) inlaid with a fragment of a lodestone.

This one's fine in principal. I need to revise/format it, that'll happen tomorrow. Note to self, do that.

[Anastasia]

Just tell me, stop dancing around it.

Honestly, I was going to offer to do the formatting when you were done rather than going back and forth on it. It's easier that way, since a lot of it is nitpicky things. I meant to mention that later on, but it got lost in the shuffle of all the other comments.

What's the math for that?

Good BAB progression (which you used) is level*1. So a 10th level fighter has +10 BAB, while a 42nd level paladin has +42 BAB.

Fair BAB progression (which is what constructs get) is level*.75. For example, a 1st level cleric has a BAB of +0. It's technically .75, but the fraction isn't rounded up to 1 since D&D rounds down whenever possible, including for BAB.. A 17th level cleric has a BAB of +12 (12.75, but again, the .75 is rounded down). For something with pure construct hit dice, just multiply the hit dice by .75. In this case, a 48 hit dice construct has a total BAB of +36 (and 36 even, no decimal this time).

Incidentally, poor BAB progression (which wizards, undead and other such things get) is level*.50. For example, a 3rd level wizard has a BAB of +1.

Those are your numbers, taken from chat. You're arguing with yourself. Are you sure those numbers are correct? Can post chatlog if needed tonight.

That was without the size modifier, which was noted as incorrect. Running the numbers with the correct size mod, the numbers here are correct, not the previous ones in chat.

This is, incidentally, why I strongly suggest dicebotting or calculatoring your math, as well as doing it more than once. Mistakes happen. Sometimes you add or subtract something and forget to adjust it down the line. I had all that open and simply forgot to include a line mentioning that when we went over chat. With so many numbers in play, these things happen.

It's probably a math error.

Okay, feel free to run the math yourself to be sure. Constructs get poor base saves in all three saves, so that's +6 to all three saves at level 20. They get (23, 26, 29, 32, 35, 38, 41, 44, 47) +9 from epic save progression and then they add ability modifiers, as well as any bonus, such as the +20 an adamantine golem gets to Fortitude saves.

You can never run the math too many times when designing something, even when you're sure you're right.

The base golem from your entry has a +14 modifier. This is a +20 bonus with a -6 penalty. Ramping up, the new golem's strength confer's 7 more points to the strength modifier. This gives us 21. +10 from Lunge = 31

Okay. Do note the bit in Jump about needing running starts, though. I'd suggset Lunge just waive that part of it or give a bigger bonus to compensate. Whichever.

Your entry doesn't specify. I made an assumption.

The entry there's baseline and just the raw statistics needed. The relevant SRD page is here.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#trample

Yeah I didn't have the math for the DC or the damage, so I just eyeballed it. I was pretty close.

You were. I remember having to do that waaaaaaaaaaay back because I couldn't find trample in the SRD. Fun times. It was a pretty solid guess.

I thought about it. Thematically it would make sense, but I'm leery about becoming too cheesy. If you're into it, I'll include it in the next iteration.

I would if you keep crushing blows, since the tarrasque has something like that to make its multiple natural attacks stronger. However, see the stuff I said about merging that and the sacred bonus to attack rolls.

It turned out to be more complicated than I'd intended. Perhaps it would work better with a refreshing and stacking buff? Maybe the whole thing as an hour or so instead of the d4. It's designed to compliment the damage reduction and fast healing, in that the engine inside would convert matter into usable material to augment the body.

Honest advice here? I've been there. You have a really neat idea for an ability and it ends up way more complicated, obtuse, unwieldy or just plain difficult to manage than you intended. That's okay, these things happen. You can either radically revise it or start from scratch on that particular idea. It's a pain, but sometimes that's part of the design process.

I believe I said here or lower that I'd drop the carapace and that's my opinion on it.

Can do. 3 rounds sound good? 4? 2? 1? Constant?

I'd suggest 4 for now, pending on how everything else hashes out. There's more than one source of damage with this thing, so it's the sort of late adjustment you do once everything else is worked out.

Made it up. It's just a placeholder since I don't have the math.

Okay, the math for a racial ability's DC is generally 10 + 1/2 the hit dice of the creature + one of the creature's ability modifiers. The ability modifier used varies depending on the type of ability. For example, breath weapons usually use Constitution, while an ability based around physical strength (like a cornugon's stun) is Strength based. Use your judgment and check similar abilities.

Having a null in an ability score is reasonable grounds to switch to the next most suitable ability. This falls into DM discretion more than anything else.

You know, I don't know what the differences between those two things are. Hell, I didn't even know you had sunfire in this setting. I made it up. It'd be great if you could explain them in detail, that way I'll know where I'm going with this and how to adapt the design.

Huh, I thought you were aware since the whole goldenfire quest and some other things. Okay then. Lemme run down the bare basics here. The party isn't fully cognizant of all the finer details of how goldenfire works, so some vagueness here is intentional for spoiler reasons.

- Goldenfire is used by Lathander and tied to the power of the sun. It's like searing fire or hellfire in that it is fire but bypasses resistance and immunity to fire. Think of it as great gushes of holy golden fire that burns the shit out of evil. It first showed up in B1 with Seira tapping into some of it, and has played a role in B3 with Lathander and the goldenfire spear quest.

- Goldenfire is difficult for most creatures to endure, even good ones. Exposures to it can have mounting, deleterious effects. It's primal stuff and not meant to be used lightly. Fortunately, most offensive applications of it aren't strong enough to provoke this. This is more if you go into the home of goldenfire and get exposed big time. Think of it like getting an X-ray versus nuclear fallout. One's no big deal, the other's a big oh shit.

- Goldenfire has ties to newborn life, freedom, purification of evil and Lathander.

- There are things like goldenfire spell (metamagic) and other ways to channel goldenfire, but it's generally rare and niche knowledge, in the same way hellfire is. For example, Moonlight knows about it, but can't use any of it herself.

- As noted in B3's goldenfire spear quest the first embers of goldenfire have the ability to defy destiny, as it represents newborn life unburdened by anything and full of life's infinite potential.

- Due to all of this, it's generally used destructively rather than to heal or restore things. I'd suggest on it walloping the shit out of evil more than healing good creatures.

It can't run. There are no running starts. Is that not clear?

Okay then.

I wanted to design something that would hold up moderately well if we chose not to awaken it.

Works well then.

I mean I'm okay with this if you are. I thought it was a bit much, but I can do it. Golden wings of burning sunlight, here we come.

That's fine, unless you don't want it to have that. Suggestion: I'd keep the fly speed low, too. It's really not that mobile a creature, even if it can fly.

Like in the case of the tarrasque, it's an intentional gap. I closed a lot of the gaps the original tarrasque has, but I did leave some so it cleaves closely to the idea of the creature. The tarrasque's a great rampaging beast but has never been a flier. It doesn't really fit it, so I kept the default one flightless. It's not wrong to be unable to fly, but it is a liability and a choice that says a lot about the creature's flavor.

We can bump it to +20.

That's workable, especially since it'll lose a chunk of to-hit from fair BAB.

I used the golem because if its tremendous immunities. While this prevents magical healing, it also prevents nearly all forms of energy damage, as well as sub-DvR1+ magic. While Belmight be able to kill it, I doubt anything else will.

Technically speaking, nothing short of Mystra or someone with a unique power can affect it with magic. Deities are immune to anti magic, but this isn't precisely anti magic, but just an immunity instead.

Bel could take it RAW easily enough, let alone if he's remotely prepared or not fighting alone. Using a Lord of the Nine isn't a fair yardstick, though.

This is still a rough draft. It's by no means final, and Iddy and I are still kicking ideas at each other. Golden Idolatry and the roar are new. Not included here is a gravity well effect on the breath weapon that I couldn't figure out how to do without stupid levels of complication. Hundreds of bull rush attempts? Or just an effect like a tornado? Couldn't find a way I liked.

Oh yeah, just focusing and applying my thoughts there.

If you wanted to do gravity - and honestly I do feel it's extraneous but that aside - I'd do it like this.

Gravity Well (Su)

Creatures within xft of the placeholder name must succeed on a DC x (save type here) or be pulled in towards the placeholder name at a rate of xft per round. Creatures pulled cannot move away unless they succeed on the saving throw, which may be attempted again each round on the creature's turn. A creature that is adjacent to the placeholder name may act normally, but cannot move away unless they pass the saving throw.

Something like that. When in doubt about a complicated ability, write it as bare bones as possible and expand from there. If you absolutely can't do it, that may be a sigh it's over complicated.

Think we could change Lunge into some sort of charge, that also tramples everything in a straight line?

Sure, that could work.

Sounds good. I'm still open to tweaking stuff. If you think the strength is too high, say so.

Strength's fine, just bear it in mind for everything else. As for adjusting the sacred bonus, see above since that factors in the changed BAB.

Yeah, it is a bit of a thing. I'll probably pare it down to something smaller.

Yeah, for the best. Sucks but sometimes you have to admit you have an idea that just isn't worth it in its current form. Been there, done that.

This was more of an attempt to nod at Waukeen, who we'd originally thought to include in the design along with Lathander. It's looking less and less like she'll be needed though, so I'll probably scratch her stuff out of the golem. It was added on at the last minute, so it's super rough.

Alrighty then.

I'll probably combine it and speed up the frequency. Once every 10 minutes, maybe. Once an hour will see use at or near the beginning of large-scale combat, and then not again. If the fight for Lifasa goes the way I think it will, once every 10 minutes will be a lot better.

Quite possibly correct, yes.

I'm aware it's a bit off. I'm working on it. Maybe an intense beam of sunlight that washes away magic? Like a metaphysical bleaching effect?

That's a really neat idea that rolls with the concept well.

Because I posted this and you went to it. And then you ignored everything else all weekend! Whose fault is that? :P

The sore, tired, poor-eyed and did I mention tired DM? >_>