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DM Nagging: It's pretty much my job

Started by Anastasia, April 12, 2018, 12:35:58 PM

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Nephrite

I genuinely enjoyed the limitations of needing to work with the hand signals and things, if just because it let the expressive bard do all the talking while the other two had to more or less follow along.

It's been interesting just to see them all work together in the limited time they have had, because although both Xandra and Cresiel are from Celestia, they both have very different approaches and ways of getting where they're going.

Moore's intent on chipping away a little at Cresiel's steadfastness just because he's managed to get where he is (I mean Moore) by following what he thinks is his path and not necessarily anyone else's. In essence, he's taking Morwel's path and yet following it on Celestia's roads, if that makes any sense.

Honestly, in terms of actual battle prowess, the three of them are pretty good in terms of having all their bases covered. Cresiel can heal himself a bit while bashing skulls, Xandra blows stuff up and Moore fills in wherever he needs to.

The 10 minute songs are already paying great dividends in terms of resources, too, which is nice. 

Anastasia

Quote from: Corwin on May 11, 2018, 06:03:10 PMLet's see, general thoughts.

Obviously, hiding that you brainwashed a mercane is sensible. I don't really get why hiding the actual outcome of the Bel/Lixer battle was a thing, but whatever.

Politics and power. If nothing else, knowledge is power. Then again, Eligaas looks to be some new and exciting variety of batshit insane, so who can say?

QuoteI was really hoping for a B3-equivalent opening, and I think we're getting it.

You are. A bit of setup, you're not in a situation to start you with a tavern brawl, but close enough.

QuoteAlso, speaking of portfolios and matching them, I got thinking about it the other day and I figured that being known for sneakiness is the opposite of being sneaky. If that makes sense? But yeah, while Seira could take to the battlefield, this is the sort of mission that plays to her strengths and I hope she gets to shine there.

A bit of a paradox there, yeah. Being known as a deity is a higher tier than being so sneaky you aren't known at all, though. For example, Shar touches on a lot of aspects of being sneaky and she's well known. I get what you're saying, it's just one of life's little ironies.

QuoteNice to interact with Alicia, and I hope to do it more. It was even nicer to interact with my friends. I'm definitely happy to do more of that later.

Yeah, Donald's been great so far and Elle was solid. So was Amaryl and Kascha, it's good to get the band together. Kascha in particular, since she's grown a lot and that growth makes good fodder. Really I feel like there's a fertile field there of you just interacting with them, once this Lixer scenario is finished. The interplay between you and Alicia was solid, as was the small bits you had with Latha and Sulia.

QuoteNot sure how the Node thing works, but I did, on reflection, follow up on the Kascha thing and nothing really happened there. Did I take it too literally? I did talk to her about her experiences with Aurora.

Kascha's isn't finished yet, that's all. You were on the right path, it just sort of subsumed into other things. As this is new and guidance is good, a one on one talk with her (or maybe a three way conversation) would be best. Generally, if something that looks like a node goal doesn't trigger it, it's one of the following. 1. You needed to take it further. 2. You misunderstood it. 3. Poke the DM to make sure he hasn't just forgotten to update it.

Since this is her first node goal, it's really just a chance and reason for her to spend some time directly with you, really pick her mind over Aurora in detail and relate to you. She has a lot of thoughts there that she didn't get to touch on. It was sort of a side thing to other things that were going on if I recall, and that made sure it didn't get enough time.

QuoteYou mustn't have looked at my spell list, because I do have the contagious fireburst. Aside from an obvious tie to Simmer and other Aurora persons, fire is kind of my thing and it's a very good fire spell. In fact, there are no other good epic fire spells for wizards, at least up to lvl13. It's mostly anti-mook anyway, and unlike Afina we actually have other ways of clearing a battlefield, so I'm not sure what the problem is? It was only effective with retarded devils placing themselves every ten feet.

The real issue, I think, is that there's no limit to the fireburst chains. It gets a little silly in a situation where packed people result in a massive chain reaction. 

Anyway, you have it. Hm. Lemme think a bit, get back to you.

QuoteFinally, not even sure what I'd like to see more: Seira meeting Lixer (his avatar?) for a climatic duel inside his fortress of angst, or Seira accomplishing the mission competently and avoiding notice.

Win-win.
<Afina> Imagine a tiny pixie boot stamping on a devil's face.
<Afina> Forever.

<Yuthirin> Afina, giant parasitic rainbow space whale.
<IronDragoon> I mean, why not?

Anastasia

Quote from: Iron Dragoon on May 11, 2018, 06:48:13 PMYeah, I got what you mean with the Red Knight, but remember I said she's new to leadership and I'm playing off the assumption that she's been questioned alot and probably not given a ton of solid actual feed back,so she's a bit sensitive about having weakness poked at, even if it's something she knows about. She's also not used to dealing with soldiers and generals, so blunt and straight forward isn't something she really fits with. I'm also sorta running with the idea of factionalism and politics being rampant in the order, so the Red Knight's attitude is kind of new territory.

Yes. The Red Knight expects a well oiled military machine and acts like that. Of course there's politics even in her military, but first and foremost, people do their job and cut the bullshit. Those that don't aren't long for their positions in her army. She's rather like the ideal of Baator in that respect. Alyssa isn't that and it shows with how they interacted.

QuoteAlso, she was honestly expecting some kind of stop-gap type thing until those proper solution were able to be put into place, so the total lack of that kind of put her off. That's sorta what I meant by mentioning strengths. Something like, "You lack physical combat power. Have your summoners focus on Earth elementals and you necromancers on debuff and fewer but more powerful undead mixed with the elementals."

Well, she is sending reinforcements with military experience, ones commanded to do things like that to help out. She's a general, a general tells the officers what to do and they make sure it gets done. That's part of it, part of it's just her approach and my presentation of it.

QuoteMore OOC-wise, I'm trying to decide if I want to play off of the Order's strengths or or go the long route and do more traditional things. Something like conjured soldiers or the like, or phantasmal soldiers. Probably some sort of mix is where I'll end up, I think. I'm also considering doing an expanded version of Evacuation Rune that will move a larger group and using it for a sort of oh shit I need reinforcement button for a QRF team to jump to. Probably have team leaders carry them, and then something to sudden summon a group of phantasmal soldiers or undead fighters or something. Sudden explosive numbers and instant reinforcement seems like a tactic that would work well with a smaller force like the order has.

I'm still feeling out the order a lot, so keep that all in mind. Right now you really just have a few people in it.

By the way, a list in your todo topic of known order personalities is a good idea, along with basic facts/traits of each one. If you wanna do that I'd really appreciate it.
<Afina> Imagine a tiny pixie boot stamping on a devil's face.
<Afina> Forever.

<Yuthirin> Afina, giant parasitic rainbow space whale.
<IronDragoon> I mean, why not?

Anastasia

Quote from: Nephrite on May 11, 2018, 09:57:54 PMI genuinely enjoyed the limitations of needing to work with the hand signals and things, if just because it let the expressive bard do all the talking while the other two had to more or less follow along.

It really was a fun gimmick and worth the headache with superior invisibility.

QuoteIt's been interesting just to see them all work together in the limited time they have had, because although both Xandra and Cresiel are from Celestia, they both have very different approaches and ways of getting where they're going.

They really do. Cresiel's the stern face, the loyal knight, the relentless champion. Sure, his style is defensive but he still goes forth and deals out justice in Mount Celestia's name. Cor compared him to a terminator in IRC and I think that was fairly spot on. He's simply not going to give up or break. He didn't break under Lixer's torments, he didn't break in captivity and he didn't break when blasted with Shar's unholy power. His faith in Mount Celestia and Chronias is unbroken and perhaps unbreakable, very much like an angel of the Lord, to go back to the Christianity comparisons and allusions to Celestia again.

Xandra is more mystical, more focused on Chronias than what is around her. She works to purposes beyond lesser men, a prophet-servant who has fully subsumed her will to the will of the Holy Mountain. She is very much in the model of 'God works in mysterious ways', as you saw with her interactions with you in B3. Like Moore, she sees and hears more beyond the ken of normal mortality. The voice in White has been a considerable part of Moore's story in B3 and now B6, and Xandra will help provide more insights into it. In a way she takes up the role Sylvie began to touch on in B3 as she became more and more affected by 21.

QuoteMoore's intent on chipping away a little at Cresiel's steadfastness just because he's managed to get where he is (I mean Moore) by following what he thinks is his path and not necessarily anyone else's. In essence, he's taking Morwel's path and yet following it on Celestia's roads, if that makes any sense.

That's a tough one and interesting to see how it plays - because in the end, Cresiel has chosen to follow something greater than himself. If Queen Morwel offers freedom within her dream and the ultimate freedom of the self, Chronias offers service and submission within the path to its light and the ultimate completion of the self when you reach it.

In a real sense when you look at it at that level, it's a choice between choosing between the self to be the ultimate good or something higher to be the ultimate good. Then again, isn't it freedom to consider and submit to the path of Celestia? Likewise, isn't it self completion to become part of Morwel's dream and find goodness within yourself?

Interestingly, I feel this also says all you need to know about neutral good and the Archangels. Is there a happy medium between these two? If not a true unison, then at least a harmony where both can be explored?

(Sidenote: I spent a long time back in B1 figuring out ways to make the different ultimate expressions of good meaningfully different. I feel D&D struggles with that a lot, and I can't blame it. You really have to put some philosophical and religious thought into it due to the nature of the questions. 2nd/3rd edition's lore provides a decent patina and even the roots to build a lot more, but you still have to do the building yourself. )

QuoteHonestly, in terms of actual battle prowess, the three of them are pretty good in terms of having all their bases covered. Cresiel can heal himself a bit while bashing skulls, Xandra blows stuff up and Moore fills in wherever he needs to.

They are. It's a promising team. I'm going to fine tune epic Warmage spells one day, but right now any sor/wiz evocation spell is working well enough.

QuoteThe 10 minute songs are already paying great dividends in terms of resources, too, which is nice.

They really are. Epic bards are terrifying for that. But not as terrifying as 80% off.
<Afina> Imagine a tiny pixie boot stamping on a devil's face.
<Afina> Forever.

<Yuthirin> Afina, giant parasitic rainbow space whale.
<IronDragoon> I mean, why not?

Nephrite

I think I agree that D&D at its base doesn't do much a good job of ever defining what the alignments are beyond the basic idea of each of them. There's always the old standby of "But what if a paladin has to uphold an evil law" or whatever.

The idea of neutral good vs. chaotic or lawful good is really interesting because there's an -awful- lot of overlap between them sometimes. To borrow on B5 for a minute, a lot of what they did was lawful and chaotic at the same time in some veins. It's all good in the end, so why sweat it?

It's been interesting to see Cresiel's genuine surprise at what Moore can hear and the messages he can apparently understand. Does it really come from Chronias? What if it doesn't? Does it matter in the end if he's doing "good" work?

I think all of this showcases, at least to me, that it's really, really difficult to try and find a niche as a "true neutral" individual. I don't even know how that'd play out in the Balmuria universe, because  I think a character like that would just come off as incredibly wishy-washy.

Anastasia

Quote from: Nephrite on May 11, 2018, 10:34:08 PMI think I agree that D&D at its base doesn't do much a good job of ever defining what the alignments are beyond the basic idea of each of them. There's always the old standby of "But what if a paladin has to uphold an evil law" or whatever.

Yeah, I think D&D does a really good job of laying the bones, but it's only bones. I also think this is ultimately the right choice for the system. Let's be honest, not everyone is going to agree with what I've put out in defining alignment. Humans don't agree on these things universally, just look at history. So leaving the bones of it and letting people build is probably the best choice at the general level D&D has to work at.

As a rule for a paladin, avoiding a chaotic or evil act is more important failing to commit a lawful or good act. Even then, good usually trumps law when it comes down to things, due to the nature of how good and evil work. Morality's important - law and chaos are something that came from the Incarnations after all, while good and evil grew within Creation. OOC we get good and evil a lot easier than law and chaos, so that always felt like a natural tack to take.

QuoteThe idea of neutral good vs. chaotic or lawful good is really interesting because there's an -awful- lot of overlap between them sometimes. To borrow on B5 for a minute, a lot of what they did was lawful and chaotic at the same time in some veins. It's all good in the end, so why sweat it?

There is a lot overlap. After all, they're all good in alignment. They just disagree with how to implement and be good, but the fundamentals of good are still there.

Quote]It's been interesting to see Cresiel's genuine surprise at what Moore can hear and the messages he can apparently understand. Does it really come from Chronias? What if it doesn't? Does it matter in the end if he's doing "good" work?

Those are all really good questions and tie back to the issues raised between the flavors of good.

QuoteI think all of this showcases, at least to me, that it's really, really difficult to try and find a niche as a "true neutral" individual. I don't even know how that'd play out in the Balmuria universe, because  I think a character like that would just come off as incredibly wishy-washy.

I view neutral as not being wishy-washy or in balance, but simply apathetic to it and not keeling strongly enough in any direction to do that. Lemme look at a few true neutral characters from previous games.

Sylvie: Has issues and went through a ton of growth. In the end she's focused on other things and has 21, so a bad example in any case.
Adrian: Wasn't ever sworn to anyone until the very end of the game and was only interested in saving Lifasa. He was willing to do a lot to save Lifasa, and even in the end that was eroded away. If he shows up in B6 he'll probably be CG at that point due to falling in with Selune. He probably could've had an alignment change later in B3, honestly.
Dana: Is Dana. Is only neutral because there's a halfway decent person in there in spite of her many...quirks. Also gives no fucks about good or evil, generally. Is also Dana.
Sage Vul'lath: He's a gith and has no real problem with some evil, but he's also intentionally straddling the line. He's aware of planar realities, he's just staying out of it for now.
<Afina> Imagine a tiny pixie boot stamping on a devil's face.
<Afina> Forever.

<Yuthirin> Afina, giant parasitic rainbow space whale.
<IronDragoon> I mean, why not?

Anastasia

Also, I'm really thinking that the weekly recaps are provoking good discussion and analysis so far. What do you all think? I'm certainly going to keep them going as of now.
<Afina> Imagine a tiny pixie boot stamping on a devil's face.
<Afina> Forever.

<Yuthirin> Afina, giant parasitic rainbow space whale.
<IronDragoon> I mean, why not?

Anastasia

Working on Emily now, a few comments as I go.

- Base Attack/CMB/CMD: +29/+40=+29+10Str+1haste/ - +40 for her CMB, but her strength score is 24 for +7. Where's the +10 strength come from?

Actually just that, I got pulled out for a late night Walmart trip so I'm tired. More tomorrow.
<Afina> Imagine a tiny pixie boot stamping on a devil's face.
<Afina> Forever.

<Yuthirin> Afina, giant parasitic rainbow space whale.
<IronDragoon> I mean, why not?

Corwin

Must've been a mistake, I also see it for the Fireclaw attack but not the damage. Should be +7.
<Steph> I might have made a terrible mistake

Anastasia

Quote from: Corwin on May 12, 2018, 06:40:51 AM
Must've been a mistake, I also see it for the Fireclaw attack but not the damage. Should be +7.

Okay, cool. These things happen.
<Afina> Imagine a tiny pixie boot stamping on a devil's face.
<Afina> Forever.

<Yuthirin> Afina, giant parasitic rainbow space whale.
<IronDragoon> I mean, why not?

Yuthirin

Quote from: Anastasia on May 11, 2018, 10:00:28 AMTryll: Poor Miranda.
That girl needs to learn how to stand up for herself, or Dana'll never respect her.

Quote from: Anastasia on May 11, 2018, 10:00:28 AMOkay, more seriously, I had fun this week. Word of advice for Tryll, though: Just wandering in infinitely large planes isn't really an on the ball plan to find a particular person, barring someone like Lathander who will find you anyway if they wanna talk to you. That all being said, I did enjoy the wandering in Elysium. The gossipy woman was enjoyable, especially her distorted view of Aurora. Gossip does tend to distort things, does it not? Also, plot begins to loom for Tryll and friends, can't wait to get to that next week. Also, I like Miranda and I hope she grows more soon.
Eh, I'm still running Tryll as who he is, a very old creature who is still rediscovering their sense of urgency. He's a bit scatter-brained, and tends to forget that he can't just wander forever until he finds what he wants. It's something he's used to. He showed a bit of it in B3.  He'll figure it out.
What if they're not stars at all? What if the night sky is full of titanic far-off lidless eyes, staring in all directions across eternity?

Anastasia

Quote from: Yuthirin on May 12, 2018, 04:43:34 PMThat girl needs to learn how to stand up for herself, or Dana'll never respect her.

Miranda can, but she's been blitzed pretty hard by first that battle, then Dana, then her own impossible improvement. She'll sort it out in time, but right now she's still mentally reeling from everything.

QuoteEh, I'm still running Tryll as who he is, a very old creature who is still rediscovering their sense of urgency. He's a bit scatter-brained, and tends to forget that he can't just wander forever until he finds what he wants. It's something he's used to. He showed a bit of it in B3.  He'll figure it out.

Fair enough. He does tend to meander a bit, yes. Just sorta cloud-squiddy, drifting along in a haze of squid.
<Afina> Imagine a tiny pixie boot stamping on a devil's face.
<Afina> Forever.

<Yuthirin> Afina, giant parasitic rainbow space whale.
<IronDragoon> I mean, why not?

Yuthirin

Quote from: Anastasia on May 12, 2018, 04:48:20 PMMiranda can, but she's been blitzed pretty hard by first that battle, then Dana, then her own impossible improvement. She'll sort it out in time, but right now she's still mentally reeling from everything.
She needs to do it soon, because shit's gonna get WEIRD.

QuoteFair enough. He does tend to meander a bit, yes. Just sorta cloud-squiddy, drifting along in a haze of squid.
Floating through the planes, with Calleigh causing havoc.
What if they're not stars at all? What if the night sky is full of titanic far-off lidless eyes, staring in all directions across eternity?

Anastasia

<Afina> Imagine a tiny pixie boot stamping on a devil's face.
<Afina> Forever.

<Yuthirin> Afina, giant parasitic rainbow space whale.
<IronDragoon> I mean, why not?

Anastasia

Quick Cor post: Working on that PrC we discussed, but not until tonight, as I mostly was tossing around ideas today.
<Afina> Imagine a tiny pixie boot stamping on a devil's face.
<Afina> Forever.

<Yuthirin> Afina, giant parasitic rainbow space whale.
<IronDragoon> I mean, why not?