Well, this week has been quite an active one.  Despite the busy schedules 
of many of the Bureau members, we've managed quite a productive week, 
producing not one but two delightful productions for your entertainment.  
It has also been a surprisingly active week on the FFML, providing many a 
rather difficult hour of keeping a straight face while reading the puffed 
up emails that flew across the list.  So, in the flavor of the Evil 
Commentary Bureau, we're commenting on the biggest 'winner' of the whole 
affair, Mr. Don Granberry's Final(TM) post to the FFML.  We'll be 
including a few of the runners up at the end along with some 
after-the-story updates.

As always, should Mr. Granberry feel a desire to respond to the ECB, he 
can reach the Bureau email at: dracos12@hotmail.com.  Additionally, this 
Evil Commentary Bureau production will be archived on the Soulriders 
Forums: http://www.pishoque.net/soulriders/.

Now, with the formalities out of the way, I hope you all enjoy:

Evil Commentary Bureau versus Don Granberry's Farewell to the FFML!

*Begin ECB*

ECBBrian:  First off, I like how you borrowed my own alias for the FFML 
"innocent bystanders" because it's especially true now.
ECB: Well, you know how it is.  Nothing says class like swiping other 
people's nifty tags!

Donald Lee Granberry wrote:

DB,

Not only are you mean-spirited, you are also cowardly.

ECB: Because nothing says cowardly like a record of being willing to 
voice an unpopular opinion instead of taking the easy road and nodding 
your head along silently.
ECB: Or mean-spirited like privately disagreeing with you instead of 
publicly ripping you to shreds on the list!

Don: I will here quite deliberately violate every rule of the forum to 
expose your sorry ass for what you are.

ECB: Well, isn't this a fine kettle, Mr. Pot?

Don: You sent me this stuff and then blocked any replies I might make, 
hoping to avoid the consequences. Well, guess what! You have just pulled 
the chain on the wrong SON-OF-A-BITCH.

ECBBrian:  Blockage, eh?  We'll take a look at that later.
ECB: I predict drama!

Don: Mr. Kleppe, do you duty.

ECBDon: "I am not afraid to die for my country!  LONG LIVE LIBERTY!"
ECB: Dude, you are blowing hot air out of your ass and getting banned 
like a hot-headed little kid.
ECBAnalSchoolteacher: Perhaps, 'your' duty would be better?

Don: Strike my name from your list of legal participants.

ECB: Because abusing your author status to break the rules intentionally 
several times in two days requires a suggestion to the admins to ban you. 
 Come on now, do you really have to try and polish your tailfeathers 
during your departure, Sir Peacock?

Don: I have no intentions of associating myself people like this sorry 
little fuck.

ECBBrian: Maturity count ++.  No gold star for you.
ECB: This sorry little fuck who, through it all, has not fallen to the 
bait of swearing at you, has kept his correspondance private and on 
point, has a long and visible history on the FFML of helping people out 
and being a nice guy.... 
ECB: I appear to have lost my train of thought, I knew I was getting to 
some point... maybe you can fill in the blank?

Regards,

Don Granberry.




------ Forwarded Message
From: Mail Delivery System 
<Mailer-Daemon@pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net
Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2003 11:47:13 -0700
To: noharness@mac.com
Subject: Mail delivery failed: returning message to sender

This message was created automatically by mail delivery software 
(Exim).

A message that you sent could not be delivered to one or more of 
its recipients. This is a permanent error. The following address(es) 
failed:

  sommer@3rdm.net
    SMTP error from remote mailer after end of data:
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because of content

ECBBrian: Content.  CONTENT.  Do you know what this means?  This means 
the server, without any help from Mr. Sommer, decided your post was spam, 
and blocked it.
ECBBrian: Probably due to the words contained in your e-mail.
ECBBrian: I love how you get blocked by your own vulgarity, and then 
claim that it's his cowardice.  That's brilliance, right there.
ECB: Now, now, he did apologize after the fact for acting like a three 
year old child.
ECBDon: Though I do believe wholeheartedly that what I did was necessary 
and right!
ECB: So much for dropping the posturing for a moment.  Just a side 
thought before I go further: Ever consider leading by example Don?  
ECB: Maybe I missed a few, but the amount of public C&C distributed by 
you in the last few years counted in the under fifty bracket.  That's a 
pathetic tableau from which to chant about the lack of good C&C 
avaliable.  DB on the other hand has produced quite a bit of public C&C 
in this time.  Far more than ye.  If you want to say: "You guys should be 
giving more proper C&C", then you should show by example.  Thrice did you 
post to the list regarding this thread.  Thrice did you not even take a 
look at the fic in question.  And then you have the nerve to complain 
about the lack of good C&C?
ECB: "Permission to lead, denied."-Sergeant Jordi(paraphrased)
ECB: How about on the next list, which you've already retreated to, you 
decide to set a 'positive' lead?  To set standards by showing good C&C?  
To cajole folks to be better instead of recriminating those doing far 
more than you for being 'sorry little fucks'?  Heck, you didn't even take 
the subtle hint and challenge by having the fic swiftly C&C'ed and it's 
flaws made bare to go through the same fic and explain why it was funny?  
Tell Kenko where his humor succeeded and why it worked nicely there?  
Congratulate him on a well written scene?  Etc.
ECB: "Judging by your mismatched plumage and massive ego, you appear to 
be a spoiled brat!"-A little kid, Dragon Warrior 7(paraphrased)

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Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2003 13:48:32 -0500
Subject: Re: [FFML] Re: C&C? What a joke! Re: [Ranma] The Amazon
    Queen,part one (draft)
From: Donald Lee Granberry <noharness@mac.com
To: DB Sommer <sommer@3rdm.net
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DB: And to your second commentary:

Don: David,

It is not what you wrote alone, that bothered me.

DB: What he wrote shouldn't bother you at all. David gave his reasons for 
his reactions and why. The only reason it should 'bother' you is if you 
were offended by it. Since nothing in it was inflammatory, I can only assume 
what bothered you was that it wasn't mindless praise, and actually 
critically assessed the fic, and disapproved of several things.

Don: I never said that what David wrote bothered, me other than the fact 
that I disagreed with it.

ECB: But you did say it bothered you.  The whole 'not *blah* alone' bit 
indicates that *blah* was part of what bothered you.

Don: I don't think it was all that important a matter to be concerned 
with in a comic piece either. This is light fiction, not theology.

ECBBrian: So, basically, you're giving the author a way to dismiss 
criticism which could potentially help him grow -- you know, as an 
author.  No reason to expose flaws in the story so he can improve on 
them, nono.  Must shelter him from such influences.
ECBBrian: Brilliant thinking.
ECB: Mmm, theology!  Good Eating!

Don: Several other folks have offered criticism and commentary that 
seemed a good deal less than useful, given that Robert usually writes comedy

ECB: Oh?  Do tell!
ECBKenko: "This is all I am good for."

Don: and is, in _Queen of the Amazons_ again offering all of us another 
excellent round of laughter, okay?

ECB: You know, I find it quite amazing that no one disagreed with me when 
I ripped it apart.  I mean, I was quite brutal and indicated dozens of 
places where the comedy simply fell apart.  Truly if it was an excellent 
round of laughter, someone should've been able to answer that, ne?
ECBErshin: "It appears this was an inappropriate moment to laugh."

Don: Were he writing a serious piece, where these kinds of things 
actually matter a great deal, I would not find it so annoying.

ECB: You heard it straight from the mouth of the Don folks!  Ranma has 
green hair!  It's being funny, see?

DB: 'Comedy' is not an excuse for doing whatever you want, however you 
want, and ignoring everything other than grammar corrections. This is a 
story, not a stand up comedy act. Unless you feel there's no room in 
comedy for characterization, plot, internal consitansy, or any of the 
other tools necessary for storytelling.

Don: Of all the points you mention, internal consistency and 
characterization are the truly important ones.

ECB: He mentioned three.  I shudder to think of a writer who does not 
think plot is an important aspect of a story, comedy or not.

Don: There were a host of other problems with Robert's work that were 
left unexamined because of this fixation some people have with their 
foolish theology.

ECBBrian: And of course, rather than examine these points and lead by 
example, thus showing your prowess as a good ffml-citizen and 
leading the way forth so that others would follow your path, 
enabling Kenko to grow and improve as a writer, and showing someone 
who was too harsh to a favored author a better way to go about his 
business, you beat said offending author about the head with your 
limited vocabulary.  Again, brilliant thinking.
ECB: "You keep using that word.  I do not think it means what you
 think it means!"

Don: I am put in mind of what happened to Susan Doenime. She was writing 
stuff funny enough to rival Robert's work, but after she got plastered on 
FFML over trivial crap that did not matter in a comedic piece, she all 
but stopped writing.

ECB: I sense a common logical fallacy approaching.

DB: Good. She shouldn't be posting it publically if she can't handle 
negative criticism. (And it if it was truly 'trivial crap' then why did 
it bother her so much she stopped writing it? It was trivial crap.) A 
writer has to be able to sort out the useful from the useless. Not 
everyone is going to like what you write. That's the truth, and it 
includes Kenko, which really seems to anger you. Sorry, you're going to 
have to deal with it. There is no such things as universal praise or a 
universally liked work.

Don: I don't expect such a thing, and you are putting words in my mouth. 
Read the C&C I have handed out to writers on this forum and you will have 
direct evidence of your false accusations, DB. There is a great 
difference to be had in useful C&C and meanness for the sake of being 
mean. Crushing people, or discouraging them at every opportunity is 
counterproductive in the extreme.

ECBBrian: Must... shield... author... from potential growth... using... 
thick skull... to block messages....
ECBBrian: Well, noble intent, one would suppose.  Assuming you want 
everyone to stagnate and not bother to grow as writers. In which case, 
all C&C should be abolished, and we should just distribute fanfics. If 
only such a magical list or means of distribution existed.
ECBBrian: Oh, yeah.  Now I remember.  It's called 'fanfiction.net'.
ECBGenericDude: Hey now, isn't that a bit harsh?  What if he's referring 
to just the totally unproductive comments like: U' FIC: SUCKY!  FUCK YOU 
WHORE!
ECB: Well, if that's the case, then DB's comments are right on.  Anyone 
who can't handle that sort of 2 second complaint not only shouldn't be 
posting their work publicly but probably shouldn't be leaving their 
basement.  The only types of comments that could potentially hit home ARE 
the ones that are at least somewhat on target on the fic.
ECBPunyauthor: Waaah, someone flamed my Ranma/Akane fic for being 
Ranma/Ryoga!  It's negative!  I'll never write again.
ECB: Unless those are your authors?
ECB: And I dunno about unproductive in the extreme.  Being one of those 
who regularly crush people for the sake of being mean, I can say from our 
acquired data that it tends to be more beneficial as a teaching 
experience than not.  But then, that itself is indicative of another 
logical fallacy, like the one I sense coming up.

Don: In fact, the piece she was working on at the time turned rather dark 
before petering out altogether.

DB: Perhaps it was always meant to be that way as well. I don't know 
personally, but it sounds like you're making an assumption based on weak 
evidence. Now, perhaps you talked with her and she told you it took a 
dark turn because of the negative criticism, and if she did, or said such 
publically, then I concede your point. Otherwise don't make assumptions 
about other people's works.

Don: Were it just one piece of fiction by one author, you might have a 
case, DB.

ECB: Oh boy, yep.  I smell it coming.

Don: OTOH, I have been a participant here for more than a little while 
and a pattern has emerged. True, there are a host of reasons why an 
author might quit writing, but among the primary reasons in many cases 
around here is getting a rhetorical beating that serves no discernable 
purpose everytime you post something.

ECBBrian: To highlight your hypocrisy (I do so loathe hypocrisy) I would 
like to point something out. 
ECBBrian: You'll stand up for Kenko, established author with dozens of 
fans and other ardent supporters, but you ignore it when Lurker tramples some 
random newbie with a billion times more vehemence than I showed, and whom 
no one will speak up for.
ECBBrian: Bravo, Mr. Granberry.  Your humanitarian efforts in the realm 
of fanfiction will never cease to amaze me.
ECBBrian: I'm equally impressed by your level-headed and even-handed 
approach to any obstacle in your path, and the way you approach it with the calm, 
methodical thoroughness any quandary deserves.
ECBDon: "DONBERRY _SMASH_!"

ECB: And thar she blows!  Here's an interesting logic puzzle for you, Mr. 
Granberry.  Pay close attention, because it might slip by you.  Most, if 
not all authors, receive negative and derisive criticism over their time 
of writing.  Do they all leave?  Of course not.  Well then, who can we 
tell that does leave from this?  Well, generally we can guess the really 
loud explosive cases do.  But those tend to return a few months later 
more often than not.  Do we trace these?  Nope, not really.  Nor do we 
trace those who receive biting criticism and meanness and shape up their 
act either.  So, what I am getting at is you are drawing a conclusion 
from too little data.  And no, you'll never have sufficient data as the 
number of parameters that affect an author's writing are quite large (to 
the degree that you'd need more than the entire Ranma fanfiction 
population to even begin to approach an acceptable sample size).  Taking 
any small chunk of time, I can make an argument that negative criticism 
improves authors, drives them away, inspires them, turns them into 
chocolate oranges, teaches them the basics of writing, et cetera, et 
cetera.  And no one could disprove any of it because no one, not even 
those who've statistically catalogued and studied the Ranma fanfiction 
community have anywhere near enough data to make a reasonable 
observationally based claim on it.  I could produce circumstantial 
evidence of all of these.  Just as much, in fact, as you could produce 
for authors blowing up and never writing again from negative commentary.

Don: You guys are welcome to pick on me,

DB: Ah, so anyone that dares disagree with you is 'picking on' you?  My, 
aren't we draped in a cloak of righteousness? Or is it pretentiousness?

ECB: I think you are encouraging a misperception here following your 
previous path of flawed logic.  No matter how 'cruel' or 'harsh' the C&C, 
it either falls into 'nothing but flames' OR 'has some merit'...  in 
which case it's not "picking on" and is instead merely a cruel way of 
teaching.  A cruel way of teaching that is oft quite effective though, I 
must note.

Don: Nope. I can handle anything you dish out.

ECB: And boy are we happy to hear that.  Always good to see a submission 
so lively at the start.  Almost as fun as the guys who submit themselves. 
 Have a cookie!

Don: Rest assured however, if you send me something stupid, or 
mean-spirited, and you have more than once, I will simply give you the 
treatment you desverve.

ECBDon: "I'll publicly make a fool of myself!  That'll show you!"

Don: Unfortunately, a great many authors are not a mean son-of-a-bitch 
like I am.

ECB: Indeed, they are fragile artistic beings whose pure and kind mental 
state cannot handle the slightest negativity.  We must protect them, lest 
our unkind words shatter their frail intellects.  It's not like they 
won't find a dozen people outside who'll abuse them.  Nope, they live in 
nicey-nice world, where people don't swear or even say they don't like 
your stuff!  

Don: You, on the other hand, take great joy in inflicting on the 
defenseless.

ECB: That's right.  I see the light now.  You've shown me the true evil 
that is DB.  He's a demon that lurks in the list and waits for just the 
right opportunities to inflict *Something* (Maybe, Joy and Flowers?), on 
poor defenseless authors.  He really has to hunt too!  I mean, it's hard 
to find the guy reading the list with two broken hands and no other 
method to type responses who also has no fans to leap to his defense 
publicly.  Those guys don't grow on trees you know!  And in the meantime, 
while waiting for all of these helpless authors, it's not like he does 
something dangerous like tangle with authors like Gary who have equal 
standing and plenty of fans or has people swap private messages and put 
them on the list so they can embroil the whole list in a flame war just 
to have a go at him!

Don: You've shown me that streak more than once.

ECB: Oh?  Do tell.  I'd love to hear of the helpless and defenseless 
authors that DB has killed.  You see, I was unable to find any by 
searching the FFML archives.  Nor were my inquiries to him directly met 
with anything save the names of a few authors who are anything but 
defenseless.

Don: So, you can expect to get flamed if you step over the line and if 
you complain to me about it, you can expect to get flamed again. 
Understand?

ECB: What's the 'line'?  Is it critiquing an author and saying where his 
fic doesn't work?  Is that the line?  Is it saying that his opinion is 
that you are over the line?  Is having an opinion at all over the line?  
Is not agreeing with you the line?  You're pretty unclear on this.  
Perhaps the line is... not being pro-Don-opinion?

Don: I don't like your habits. I don't like the things you say to people 
and I will call you on it when and as I see fit.

ECBDon: "WHYFORE PUNY HUMANS ALWAYS PICK ON DONBERRY?"

Don: just be advised that I am not the least bit shy about shooting back 
and that I do NOT suffer fools gladly.

ECB: Goodie!  I love guys who don't suffer fools gladly!  And guys who 
can shoot back?  Twice as fun!

DB: And yet you manage to live with yourself. How do you do it?

DB: The irony in this statement is so thick, I'm choking on it.

Don: Oh, ha-ha! Come on, DB. Surely you can do better than this.

ECB: But why bother?  That'd be overkill.  Don't complain to your 
opponents for treating you like a three year old when you are acting like 
one.

Don: ON THE OTHER HAND, UPON ATTEMPTING TO SEND YOU THIS REPLY, I HAVE 
ALSO DISCOVERED YOU TO BE A FUCKING COWARD. YOU LIKE TO DISH IT OUT BUT YOU
CANNOT TAKE IT, CAN YOU, DB?

ECBBrian: I'm willing to wager money here you didn't hit caps lock.  I'll 
put down TEN BUX that says you were so furious over something so 
ultimately trivial, that you slammed down on the shift keys and kept 
them depressed manually until you finished your little diatribe.
ECBKeyboard: Owie!
ECBBrian: Was I right?  Did I win a free movie?
ECBDon: "DONBERRY NOT LIKE PUNY HUMAN DODGING DONBERRY'S FISTS!"
ECBBrian: Thought so.
ECBBrian: More to the point, of course, because this is you, it was 
intentional.  After all of those posts where Mr. Sommer's defensive 
position was slipping, he obviously had to run and hide from your leaping 
offense.
ECBBrian: "If I were to transform every atom in the entire 
universe into a pixel that could flash in any color, then assemble 
them into the largest monitor ever concieved by man, that STILL 
would not be large enough for the :rolleyes: I need to respond to 
this post."-Forum Newbie

ECB: By the way, somewhere along the line I heard a comment about this 
all being necessary.  Lemme see, what was it...
ECBDon: "If you are wondering if I am regretful over this you should know 
that I regret its necessity."
ECB: Do inform this most curious satirist.  How was all of this 
necessary?  How did this attain any net benefit for the list or for ye?  
Did more C&C result from it?  No.  It didn't.  Did more negativity result 
from it?  Yep.  So... do tell me how this was all necessary?  How you 
couldn't have privately unsubscribed if you felt that the admins were 
bad?  How you couldn't have just complained to the other admins that you 
felt one of their company was abusive and did not deserve his position?  
How you couldn't show a good example of how to save the list if you 
thought it was that bad?

Don: Now then, folks, let's all do ourselves a favor and put our thinking 
caps on before undertaking to do C&C, okay?

DB: I did so, and I imagine most of the other people that dared to say 
something other than, "This is so brilliant, I'm ROTFLMAO", did so as 
well  That you implied those that dared say anything critical are not 
thinking is a gross insult. In my opinion, you owe them a public apology 
for this stunt.

Don: Show me where I said any such thing, DB. Show me!

ECB: Look up.  It's a logical conclusion of your argument:
ECBDon: See, Brian went and said he didn't like a fic because it was 
clearly an R/A matchup and it bored him.
ECBDon: This is not only not C&C but negative and evil stuff!
ECBDon: This stuff drives authors away *See reference to personal 
experience*
ECBDon: This is unthinking stuff *Look just above for that line*
ECB: Ergo, those writing an author and saying they don't like it not only 
aren't commenting on the fic, but aren't thinking and are actively 
driving authors away.  Amazing what a little reading comprehension will 
get you.  Want a mint to clean the taste of your foot from your mouth?

Don: You are putting words into my mouth.

ECB: Actually, I think he's telling you that you stuck your foot in your 
mouth.

Don: You make it clear that you have not been reading the C&C I have 
offered other writers and I know for a fact that you haven't seen the C&C 
I sent Robert.

ECB: You are right.  We haven't.  So you know what?  It can't be brought 
into play regarding what is good and bad about the list.  If you go ahead 
and actively don't include your good C&C to the list, then you can't 
complain that others don't either.  It's a self-defeating argument.  Act 
like me because I am good, but because I am good, I don't participate, 
thus all who act like me would be invisible. All who we'd see are those 
who don't act like me and are mean, evil people!

Don: You have your head so far up your ass I wonder how it is that you 
can breath, let alone see to type.

ECBBrian: Of course.  We all know what a shining gem and example of a 
C&Cer you are.  I mean, you must have offered a good... three... maybe as many as 
five C&Cs to the public that we've seen?
ECBBrian: I know I got one.
ECBBrian: Just one.
ECBStatician: Now, let's be fair.  Hunting through years of archives we 
were able to find maybe 20-30 that he's done in the past 3-4 years.  So, 
they are obviously easy to find!  DB should be taken to task for not 
finding all of these and seeing that Don truly was referring to something 
totally different!
ECB: Anyhow, weren't you a prereader for Granberry for a year or so?  In 
fact, aren't you currently listed on his prereader list as of this moment?
ECBBrian: Technically, though when he never thanked me for C&Cing after 
the first few MB of constant revision I stopped replying. Didn't stop him 
from sending to me, of course.
ECB: Well, isn't it lovely to hear he reciprocates nicely with his 
prereaders.

Don: The type of the piece counts for a great deal when you start 
worrying about  minor details, such as whether or not a .45 calibre round will 
break up green concrete or whether there were shoulder-fired anti-aircaft 
missiles available in Vietnam prior 1979 or any other such crap, okay?

DB: Your comparison is, quite frankly, stupid. Internal consitancy is 
being argued about, not what type of blow Ranma used when he struck Cologne. 
Even in humor, you need that to make the fic work.

Don: To judge internal consistency, the story itself must be the 
standard, not the engineering standards.

ECB: As an engineer, I find myself quite perplexed by your comparison as 
if they are different.  Stories all share the same basic chains of rules 
to be stable (just like any similar engineering project).  Standards of 
good story telling similar to the standards of good engineering.  The 
basics of spelling, grammar, etc do not diminish in importance.  The 
basics of building a plot don't change significantly either.  Like 
building a building, you must have support for your base and build upon 
it such that each new revealed level has enough support that the whole 
building doesn't collapse.

ECB: Anyhow, despite that little bit of confusion, I wonder how 
engineering standards or the comparison at all comes into play here.  
Obscure history facts are far from internal oddities in a short time 
frame.  They also have nothing to do with engineering standards at all.  
A shoulder-fired anti-aircraft missile is a shoulder-fired anti-aircraft 
missile.  Regardless of what timeframe it was avaliable in.  What would 
be a more apt comparison is: Worrying about a shoulder-fired 
anti-aircraft missile launcher that shoots swiss cheese.

Don: I am well acquainted with both because I have been in construction 
most of my life and am transitioning into writing as a second career.

ECB: Want a cookie?

Don: Don't play games with me, DB. You are an idiot and I am here proving 
it.

ECBBrian: Remarkably, most of us are waiting for this proof to arrive.
ECBDon: "DONBERRY SMARTER THAN PUNY HUMAN!"
ECB: See, some people like to, well, start proofs with premises, give 
reasoning, and then draw a conclusion.  I think you forgot the middle 
step.

Don: It make damned little difference to a comedy piece.

DB: What, reasonable questions, which many people seconded, about 
behaviors that don't make sense even with the type of humor Kenko is using, make 
little difference? Evidently not to some of the people that read it, 
since it struck them as off when other things didn't. Thanks for telling 
everyone their concerns are meaningless and that they must be stupid for 
questioning anything in the fic as not being brilliant.

Don: Well, if the shoe fits, heel-fly, you are more than welcome to wear 
it!

ECB: Sorry, your shoes are too big for me.
 
Don: If you are going to do C&C, then you should do C&C and not take 
these silly fucking little half-steps

ECB: Little half steps? Oh?   You mean just commenting on one little part 
like a lot of people did who you complained about?  Do you even have a 
clue how long it takes to do a proper line by line?  Not to mention the 
high quality ones which will triple to quadruple the length of the fic in 
question?  I don't think you do.  That short and relatively hasty one I 
did took a couple hours of time to run through.  Maybe if you were 
putting out a few hundred of these a year, I'd take what you were saying 
to have merit, but given I'm pretty damn certain you don't, I think you 
don't have a leg to stand on to criticize here.

Don: or resorting to outright insults and calling it C&C just to stroke 
your own ego.

ECB: Just to set the record straight, this isn't C&C.  Because somehow, I 
figure you are going to pretend it is so you can point and go: "Hah!  
See, See?  I'm right!"

Don: Got that everybody? C&C has an express purpose.

ECB: Error.  Good C&C has an express purpose.  Comments and Criticism is 
merely an easy convention that covers all manners of responses and thus 
people ask for it.  You can pretend otherwise, but "U FIC SUCKZORS!" is 
just as much C&C as a long twenty page line by line.  It might not be as 
valid or as sound, but it's definitely just as deserving of the term.

Don: It is NOT criticism solely for the sake of criticism.

ECB: Wow, you know, this is sorta ironic.  I'll get to why it is so 
ironic later ^_^.

Don: It is not meanness just to be mean.

ECB: *giggles*

Don: The purpose of C&C is to help an author improve his work. If that is 
not your reason for doing C&C, you are an idiot, an asshole or a whole 
lot of both!

ECB: You are correct sir.  Now, you publicly commented on DB's opinion.  
You didn't do it to help him improve obviously.  So does that make you an 
idiot, an asshole...or a whole lot of both?
ECBBantrain: *TOOT TOOT*

ECBBrian: Last Chickenball Award Kasumi/Keiichi candidates include: DB 
Sommer.
ECBBrian: Strangely enough, they don't seem to include: Donald Lee 
Granberry.
ECBBrian: Iiiinteresting.  Just thought I'd point that out.

Don: If Robert wants Akane to think of Ranma as a pervert, there is 
enough support in the canon for him to do so and that's the end of it 

DB: "I have spoken. None my refute my judgement."

ECB: "And lo did they come to worship his word and none before him could 
sayeth but a word of truth lest they contradict his word!"

DB: Sorry, Donny, but it's not the end of it because of your sayso. This 
is not 'canon'. This is an alt-uni, and Kenko has changed many things from 
the 'canon' which means you can't fall back on that as excuse for 
everything. Having people act like nothing's been changed from the canon, 
when it has been and there is no justification in their behavior, is poor 
writing.

Don: So? If it is a Ranma1/2 story and the characters are anything like 
the characters in the canon, then the reader has every reason to  expect them 
to behave as they do in the original story. Otherwise, it is not a 
Ranma1/2 story, is it? You should give up sophistry, DB. You aren't very 
good at it.

ECBBrian: Oh, of course.  Since 'Alt' must mean 'just the same'.
ECB: Somehow, I do think Granberry should put down the big words.  He 
seems to be regularly flubbing their usage.  That wasn't a sophisticated 
argument by any means.  That was a rather blatant: "Okay, if you tell us 
the characters are now 'this', we expect them to act like 'this'.  
Otherwise you aren't being consistent."

DB: And here's the scary part, guess what? He can revise things if there 
are inconsitancies in it. *gasp* Some people do such things when others point 
out possibly flaws in work. Not 'you should ignore anything that strikes 
you as being wrong because it's comedy. Laugh with me. HAHAHA."

Don: You know who actually did a decent bit of C&C on this piece and they 
did it only _after_ I bitched Brian out? Phil Bloom. It was unkind and rough 
as hell, unnecessarily so, but you know what? It was genuine C&C!

ECB: You say such sweet things.

Don: Go read it.  You might accidentally learn something, but I doubt it. 
You have already proven beyond shadow of a doubt that you use some part of your 
anatomy other than your brain to think with.

ECB: Now, I do have to say, I've been quite surprised by the response to 
my blatant troll/C&C.  Let's go a bit into my thought process so you can 
stop patting yourself on the back for inspiring someone to C&C (Congrats, 
you managed to hook the guy who writes hundreds a year!).  For days since 
Kenko's fic had hit the FFML, the list had been swamped with C&C (Yes, 
C&C) that should never have gone anywhere but directly to the author.  
The sheer quantities of annoying praise that was filtering out was a pain 
to delete to clean out my email box to get to actually interesting fics.  
Kenko's fic, based on the title and my past knowledge of the author, was 
quite rightly tossed directly in the trash folder when it arrived.  
Eventually, Brian got around to C&C'ing it, and like virtually all C&C it 
was receiving, it was posted publicly to the list.  Soon after, you began 
your FFML Drama Campaign, all in an uproar because a grand total of two 
negative ones had been posted.  You then proceeded to lecture us on Kenko 
being the funniest man on the FFML.  I took offense at this.  Nothing to 
Kenko in particular, but anyone who got stuffed with that claim would get 
ripped apart if they were anything less than stellar.  I therefore 
immediately requested (and got) a copy of the fic for no other reason 
than to rip into it.  Notably, it took me a half a second as there were 
quite a few others who desired a happy: Shut the Don Up post.  Getting 
it, I promptly began the two-fold task of C&Cing it and trolling you out 
to try and actually be a decent chap and defend the author you found so 
funny.
ECBSportsfan: Dammit, you failed.  You spoke so highly of him, but not 
only was his comedy remarkably easy to rip apart, but you didn't even 
stand up and publicly defend it.  You practically handed him right to the 
wolves and now....
ECB: I'm happy to accept your thanks for the troll.  I'm also happy to 
accept the thanks of dozens of others who took time out of their day to 
agree with my assessment that Kenko isn't funny.  I'm disappointed though 
in the Kenko fans.  You'd think at least one would take me to task for 
such a thing.  Would post an opposing line by line and congratulate Kenko 
on being funny.
ECB: Anyhow, for irony's sake, that C&C was written for nothing more than 
my personal amusement and meanness.  While it had good points, it was a 
clear example of exactly what you were referring to as the wrong way of 
doing C&C in this letter.  And you thanked me for it.  Irony++;

Don: If Robert wants Ranma and Akane to end up  married, that was 
Takahashi's intent to begin with.

DB: That has nothing to do with what he's writing, since this is an 
alt-uni.  What he's doing now is a sufficient divergence that he can't have the 
chracters act like they're still in the 'canon' universe, when different 
things happen to them. Sure, he can still have Ranma and Akane together, 
but since he's already altered their dynamics, having them act like they 
weren't altered feels off, which is what people have been saying.

Don: So why should Ranma & Akane match up be the deciding factor insofar 
as the quality, let alone the viabilityh of the piece is concerned? If Brian 
was not interested in working with someone on such a piece, then he 
should not have made the goddamned post! All he did was hurt and hinder. 
He did nothing to help Robert improve his work. If the intent here is not 
help authors, why should any self-respecting author bother to post here?

ECBBrian: Yes, never let us try and help an author improve.  That's evil. 
 Being turned off to a work and explaining exactly why it doesn't work 
should be verboten.

Don: Having said that, for all we know, Robert will have Ranma married 
off to the entire bunch. He has not written enough of the story for anyone to 
know.

ECB: And now for another session of did you know?
ECB: Did you know that Gary Kleppe is secretly a bullfrog?
ECB: Did you know that Tim Rogers gets 90 percent of his fanmail between 
7 am and Noon?
ECB: Did you know that Fox has officially abandoned the FFML forever?
ECB: Did you know the ECB founder does charity work and saves small 
children on his off hours?
ECB: Did you know DB Sommers is on a first name basis with the Lord Satan 
himself?
ECB: Did you know that Brian is currently mastering the lost zen secrets 
of immortal meditation?
ECB: Did you know Kenko is going to have the story end up being 
Ranma/Cologne?
ECB: Did you know, Don Granberry is a perfectly civilized and polite 
human being?

DB: But there is more than enough circumstantial evidence to point to it 
being R+A. He's being very hamhanded about it, in fact. His previous 
writings are another clue to what he has planned since he tends to do the 
same thing over and over. Oh, sure, right before he does the climax, he can have the 
Evangelion Universe intrude and turn everyone into Tang and no one ends 
up with anyone, but that's not real likely. No, he's laid extensive 
groundwork in the first chapter to point in a certain 
direction, and since this is comedy, it's unlikely he's going for that 
sort of change, else he would be going about things differently. If he 
was going for a harem type thing, is he going to have Cologne arbitrarily 
decide that Nabiki and Kasumi are wrong because of their hairstyles and 
make Akane Ranma's fiancee? Hardly. he'd have the girls contending for 
his hand, or some other such thing that would have comedic potential.

DB: Frankly, this and your original complaint are nothing more than 
whining that there are people that dared not give Kenko's latest praise, and it 
offended you. You're chastising others for daring to question Kenko's 
brilliance and implying there might be problems with the fic. And you're 
incredibly arrogant in your high-handed, holier-than-thou attitude in 
going about it.

DB: Congatualtions, you've completely failed in your intent and managed 
to offend people, rather than making them seeing the 'error of their ways.'

Don: DB, you are so inexcusably full of shit.

ECB: Now, normally, this is a pot/kettle spot.  But you know what?  One, 
it'd be insulting to DB.  Two, I wouldn't have a large enough pot/kettle 
macro if I turned all of Jupiter into a giant black pot.

Don: It is hard to believe and you are, once again, accusing me falsely. 
You do this kind silly, ill-considered kind of thing all the time.

ECB: Does he?  It seems to fit rather nicely with what you've publicly 
posted on the issue.  Anyhow... do tell us how and what to say some more.

Don: Unfortunately, there is more than one person like you that 
participates in FFML. It's a real shame, because if you and a few others 
would be just a wee bit more sensible, and learn some manners, FFML would 
be a really good place for new authors to improve their skills.

ECBFFML: "YOU ROCKZ!"
ECBFFML: "We love your stuff!"
ECB: Yep.  It'd be the best place for improvement without those who are 
negative and mean.
ECB: And by the way, learn some manners?  Was that meant as a joke?  You 
couldn't possibly have been meaning to lecture ANYONE about netiquette 
with what you did here.

Don: The problem is, you have discovered that you can indulge in your 
mean streak with some measure of impunity. I don't have to put up with 
your sorry fucking ass and I am not going to.

ECBBrian: To paraphrase:  "Rather than address any of your actual salient 
points, I will call you stupid, with added vulgarity."
ECBBrian: Also known as:  "DONBERRY SMASH!"
ECB: 'Doink!'

Don: Sayonara, Asshole.

ECBBrian: Oooh.  Lovely hypocrisy.  So, you can tell him off and close 
the thread to further discussion, but when his server dares to bounce your 
e-mail, you have to blow an artery?  Very nice.

*End ECB*

Boy, don't you know how to end it, Brian.  Really, this was like one of 
those Reality shows.  Don really achieved quite an impressive chain of 
events here in the classic: "What will he do next?  Sure, he's publicly 
flamed and broken the rules and gotten his thread banned.  Sure he's 
posted private mail to the list, publicly flamed again, and gotten banned 
himself.  But what next?  Will he move to Delphi and repeat the whole 
scene?  Will he pull a Fox?  What?"  It's almost enough for me to pull 
out the popcorn.

Anyhow, I'm not going to give this a grade in the classic fashion of ECBs 
as it is just an email correspondence, but I'd like to remind Mr. 
Granberry of one of those classic lines which gets tossed about all the 
time but he seems to have forgotten: "I may not agree with what you have 
to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."-Betrice Hall

You got your opinion, Don.  We got ours.  And the FFML admins have 
theirs.  As we know, your ban was reduced to a mere 3 month slap on the 
wrist under public pressure and the belief that you were apologetic about 
your actions.  We know differently as you've made sure we would be told 
that you were nothing of the sort.  We're not going to tell you you have 
no right to voice your opinion, but we're happy to tell you that you have 
your head in your ass and are prancing about like a peacock.  
Congratulations on being the pathetic entertainment of the moment for our 
readers.  They'll be happily waiting for your return and inevitable 
explosion against the FFML admins again for such small crimes as 
disagreeing with you.

ECBOMAKE:
ECB: In the lands of FFML, legend tells of the dark lord Granberry,
ECB: And the C&C that will give him the power to enslave the FFML,
ECB: Lost for centuries, it has been sought by many,
ECB: And has now found it's way into the hands of the most unlikely 
person imaginable.
ECBBrian: Hiya!