---Downtime rules discussion---

[Anastasia]

Yes, this is important enough to warrant a line of dashes on each end. Fear.

---

As the months drift by, the world around Balmuria changes. Magic spreads like a dam giving way to the relentless currents of water, old believes being challenged as something rare becomes far more common. From city streets to dusty village squares to even the depths of the wilderness, those touched by the Gods speak the chosen gospels. Amid these changes old incantations and ways change their eternal flow...

Since we've finished a big arc I'd like to do rule changes now. I have a few from the GMing side of things and I'll open the floor to your suggestions after that. I'd really like to see you guys make some suggestions since I've seen all of you bitch about various rules before.

I trust all of you to make sane requests, by the way. Anyway, so far I have:

1. Wraithestrike is banned. This spell only gets better as time goes on, making it a balance nightmare. Alicia, you can select a spell to replace it for free.
2. Thunderlance is banned. I have too many qualms with this spell to let it stay in. Seira, you can choose another spell to replace it for free, or design one as you were talking about.

I'd like to also do something about Prot from Evil like we discussed in chat. Any suggestions or feedback there? Anyway, feel free to make your own proposals and the like.

[Ebiris]

Wraithstrike has been swapped with Alter Self.

I really think Protection Against Evil is fine as it is and oppose nerfing it. You've said yourself that you're removing most save or dies from the game, but what about the save or enslaved? Protection Against Evil provides a valuable safeguard against an attack method that is fairly common and can fuck someone over just as badly as getting disintegrated can. And it's only a safeguard, since the charm/compulsion still takes effect once the protection wears off or gets dispelled.

I think if Wraithstrike is being banned, then Helical Mirage could stand to go as well, since the two seem pretty equivalent in the benefit they give their respective casters a lot of the time.

[Taishyr]

A very mild comment, just as a general rule on Combat Expertise; it's obvious I have vested interest in the skill. >_> My main comment is just that, while I can see the Int prereq, it would seem it could run off either Int or Wis, depending on the -sort- of expertise. As a general change (perhaps to carry into other games), Int 13 and BAB +3 or Wis 13 and BAB +3?

(It's clear why I want this, I'm sure, but eh, the more I considered how the skill worked and who would want it, the more it just seemed slightly absurd to only have it as Int.)

[Anastasia]

A very mild comment, just as a general rule on Combat Expertise; it's obvious I have vested interest in the skill. >_> My main comment is just that, while I can see the Int prereq, it would seem it could run off either Int or Wis, depending on the -sort- of expertise. As a general change (perhaps to carry into other games), Int 13 and BAB +3 or Wis 13 and BAB +3?

(It's clear why I want this, I'm sure, but eh, the more I considered how the skill worked and who would want it, the more it just seemed slightly absurd to only have it as Int.)

I'd prefer to keep it working off only one ability score. That said, I don't disagree with your point, one could argue for wisdom as easily as intelligence. If I did switch it, I'd switch it for the entire world. Let me get back to you after doing some checking on what that would effect.

[Corwin]

It's of equivalent level and quite similar in many ways, but I'd personally prefer to keep the spell. There's also that wraithstrike was not the only spell it was based off, so one of the sources getting banned shouldn't invalidate the others. If Dune is banning wraithstrike since he intends to use enemies with more and more ac (by way of nat armor and such) then it wouldn't grow in usefulness as rapidly as wraithstrike. Why don't you just learn it and give it whatever personal flavor you'd like?

Somewhat related, you remember that alter self's nerfed into not letting us fly here, right?

[Anastasia]

Wraithstrike has been swapped with Alter Self.

Cool.

I really think Protection Against Evil is fine as it is and oppose nerfing it. You've said yourself that you're removing most save or dies from the game, but what about the save or enslaved? Protection Against Evil provides a valuable safeguard against an attack method that is fairly common and can fuck someone over just as badly as getting disintegrated can. And it's only a safeguard, since the charm/compulsion still takes effect once the protection wears off or gets dispelled.

I suppose, but I still dislike the design there. However, I've gotten enough comments on it that I'll leave it as is.

[Anastasia]

Re: Wraithestrike and Helical Mirage.

I banned Wraithestrike since it's too good and it keeps scaling absurdly well. It was making balance extremely problematic, as reducing down the relevant types of armor really hoses a lot of creatures and screws with balance. (Raising touch AC is messy for other touch attacks, too.)  Thunderlance was in the same category, albeit for different reasons.

Helical Mirage? You have a pretty salient point there about the raw benefit; both give a nice bonus to the odds of hitting. However, Mirage is more manageable - it's tied to Seira's intelligence score, something that's more constant and easier to control. I'm not prepared to look into banning it right now - my attention has been on other things and fiddling with balance. If you are concerned, I'll pay attention to it in the coming adventures and see how it stacks up for balance.

If I do find it to be a problem? I'd either ban it or cap Helical Mirage's boost at some number and possibly allow a Greater Helical Mirage. I'll cross that bridge when I come to it, though.

[Ebiris]

It's of equivalent level and quite similar in many ways, but I'd personally prefer to keep the spell. There's also that wraithstrike was not the only spell it was based off, so one of the sources getting banned shouldn't invalidate the others. If Dune is banning wraithstrike since he intends to use enemies with more and more ac (by way of nat armor and such) then it wouldn't grow in usefulness as rapidly as wraithstrike. Why don't you just learn it and give it whatever personal flavor you'd like?

Somewhat related, you remember that alter self's nerfed into not letting us fly here, right?

Helical Mirage would give no benefit for Alicia, since her strength is the same as her charisma.

Alter Self is more for RP stuff like disguises, and also I can cast it on the familiar to give it a form big enough to wield weapons like the hammer of the shard. I can cast Fly, anyway.