The Gossip Board

[Anastasia]

Interesting stuff.

I'm thinking about putting Planar down for these and other reasons. Rat's thinking about dropping due to personal reasons, Zeph's having all this, Cid constantly contorts his schedule to make it and Gate has the constant battle over time and stomach maladies. I feel like critical mass has been exceeded, the sum of the various little problems are too much. It's a fun game and the RP is great, but my will to handle the downsides has eroded.  Due to all of this, I feel like it's time to let go and move onto something else.

Thoughts? If anyone has a good reason otherwise that compels me, I'll consider it. Otherwise I'm going to put this down.

[VySaika]

Been waiting for that.

I'll be honest, I'm of two minds on the game. While I'm playing, I have fun. It may not seem it to Dune because I gripe at him alot in PM, but I greatly exaggerate my feelings about things online just to make sure they get across as a rule. But while not playing, I don't really think about the game and come Tuesday I feel like I'm just dragging myself into playing. Been this way since the Abyss arc. Part of that's just that the game's felt liek a steady spiral down into GRIMDARK sometimes, which I am not even remotely a fan of. And even moreso with the current arc feeling like it was going to split the party no matter how it went.

So...I guess I'm saying that I won't argue in favor of the game staying, though I'll keep on if we do keep it. I do enjoy the game while playing it, usually, just find it hard to get enthused about it until we start rolling.

[Dracos]

Yeah, the arc that started with us joining the lich and moved since then hasn't been enjoyable largely on the basis of what Gate said (Player against player and player agenda against player agenda having a fair bit of the spotlight making it hard to believe we'd be grouped post arc).

I'd like to keep going, but I don't have a compelling reason to say you should run it if you don't want to anymore.

[Sierra]

Eh. Every game has off sessions or plots that don't appeal to everyone. I really want to say dudes should just soldier it out and we'll move onto something more your speed once it's done. I still look forward to the game and would be disappointed if it stopped (not least because finding Ami is really only half the work that needs doing there). And if I had a problem with sleep contortionist antics, I wouldn't have kept it up for a year. I can't really do anything about GM burnout, but that's my attitude here. Am curious what Dune's reasons are here, actually.

[Carthrat]

That I seem to get way different things out of this game to other players, indeed specifically Gate and Drac here now that 'Grimdark' and conflicting agendas is mentioned, is part of the reason I've decided to drop. I can't enjoy a game much if I feel other people hate it for the reasons I like it (and vice versa, really.) A compromise wouldn't really please anyone, either.

[Anastasia]

My reasons? Okay!

1. Too many different directions.

Rat references this above though it runs to other things like that. Too many people want too many different things and tones out of this game. Some variation is fine, too much dilutes the entire product. The GM can only cater to so many things and have a game stay together. Drac wants a popcorn game, Rat wants a more intense game, Adail doesn't like grimdark and so on. This leads to number 2.

2. Lack of party coherency.

Simply put, the PCs haven't ever truly synced together. You guys travel together but aren't a strong team. Out of battle you tend to do whatever and chase your own things, with differing goals and not a lot of inter-connectivity. In battle teamwork tends to be shaky at best, last night in particular had some shining examples of that.

3. The spark is gone.

Somewhere along the way I lost my passion for running this game.  It's been fun, but it's like a dead marriage. You go through the motions but the romance is gone. Too many little things lead to death by papercuts, I guess.

[Dracos]

Random opinionating:

If the DM is burned out on running the game, the game is over.  We really shouldn't bother with skipping around, even though it's fair to let everyone have their last word.

Unrealism and yammering:
Yup, definitely some different views, though admittingly from my end, I kinda wish if with serious stuff like the last arc, we went it with more clear OOC statement of agenda.   I suppose I'm really different on this regard, but usually I take it as an unstated rule that we're trying to keep everyone who is playing working together.  I don't mind in a theatric if someone goes "I'm working toward this dramatic fatal end with my arch-nemesis".  I tried to ping on this toward the start of the arc to try and get a feel on where people (particularly the one most involved) was wanting to take it...but got silence back on that which made it a lot more uncomfortable as the game moved toward 'well, you guys are enslaved by the lich and you guys are not'.  I dunno, I think the whole lich arc could've been fun for me if I had a clear understanding on how it wasn't set to tear the team entirely apart (even if it was 'We're leaving these characters and will rejoin as new ones or something), but well, it kinda did effectively tear the team apart with leaving us with the option of playing it seriously and having the game get very grim as we tried to work through serious issues ("So you're a slave of the lich for the next 7 years, how's that working for you?") or we somewhat ignored them and moved on as a group anyway.  I dunno, mostly yammering, not quite sure if I got this off in any non-whiny way.

I almost kind of wish Rat's char had been the focal point of serious stuff because overall he was better at foreshadowing his wants in this regard, which made it easier to think of them.  Having Nikki as a focal point made it difficult.  And having Mari have another serious life changing event in almost the same day made it hard to treat her serious event as a separate thing to play around.

I guess when playing more seriously, I sorta expect it to get more like theater would, where folks start sketching out scenes and agenda well in advance and figuring out how they'll interplay for maximum drama rather than the more casual running of the mouth and playing of a character against the scene of the moment.  I dunno, maybe played a bit too much freeform lately and it's influencing my thoughts.

[Anastasia]

Unrealism and yammering:
Yup, definitely some different views, though admittingly from my end, I kinda wish if with serious stuff like the last arc, we went it with more clear OOC statement of agenda.   I suppose I'm really different on this regard, but usually I take it as an unstated rule that we're trying to keep everyone who is playing working together.  I don't mind in a theatric if someone goes "I'm working toward this dramatic fatal end with my arch-nemesis".  I tried to ping on this toward the start of the arc to try and get a feel on where people (particularly the one most involved) was wanting to take it...but got silence back on that which made it a lot more uncomfortable as the game moved toward 'well, you guys are enslaved by the lich and you guys are not'.  I dunno, I think the whole lich arc could've been fun for me if I had a clear understanding on how it wasn't set to tear the team entirely apart (even if it was 'We're leaving these characters and will rejoin as new ones or something), but well, it kinda did effectively tear the team apart with leaving us with the option of playing it seriously and having the game get very grim as we tried to work through serious issues ("So you're a slave of the lich for the next 7 years, how's that working for you?") or we somewhat ignored them and moved on as a group anyway.  I dunno, mostly yammering, not quite sure if I got this off in any non-whiny way.

Nah, I hear where you're coming from. I chalk this up to a few things - the two week gap at the start of this really let things stew. It did no one any favors and poisoned the pot.  Secondly this was on purpose, the Lich Arc was meant to be a 6-8 session arc with many possible outs and resolutions to it. Some team interplay and strife was one of the themes of the arc, as well as a counterpoint to certain other things that you would have come across. The idea was to move this fast enough so that this sort of attitude wouldn't fester and we could get through it well enough.

I do disagree with your basic point here though. Tipping my hand as the DM spoils things and it's something I'm wholeheartedly against.  You guys trust me to run a game and keep it going well, I trust you guys to go along with it and accept that. Things might look dark for awhile, but I'm going to lead things along on an enjoyable story. At least in theory, you know? The a good DM shouldn't need to reveal his cards like that 'cause he understands this point.

[Anastasia]

PS. Zeph feel free to hop on IRC if you want, I see you lurking the forums. >_>

[Anastasia]

Player feedback and comments. I want to do this and I don't want to get into spoilery things yet, in case something happens to make us keep playing. Not likely, but I'm also giving Cid the courtesy and chance to reply first before making anything final. (If any of you have any relevant comments, speak up now. Like tonight or early tomorrow now.) I'll do one person per post.

Rat

You started Planar with a lights-out concept for a character. It's one of the best I've ever seen, rich in hooks and original! It draws on the D&D mythos and a notorious item that gets visceral reactions. You did fine from there, though I always thought Knight's growth was a little slow and started tapering off near the end game. I wish there had been more scenes later on like the jewelry shop in Ogremoch's territory.  As a player you understood battle well and tried to apply strategy, as much as this group would.

Extra thanks for tolerating me fucking a bit with the Deck quest. I figured consistent was the last thing Limbo tearing the Deck apart would cause; there's no way each of them would have been pretty cards sitting around, waiting to be claimed. If you want to blame anyone for Rogue/Throne/Star, blame Limbo. Fucking Limbo.

I always felt Knight was drifting towards LN as the game went, but never really had a watershed to get there. She'd creep back a bit then drift closer, back and forth.

On the down side? Man, not every enemy's going to be tactically minded or a battle genius. You set your standards way too high. Not every opponent is a military trained tactician who ponders every course of action for the absolute optimal one.  Chill a bit there, man.

[Anastasia]

Gate

I liked the concept of Adail and bent the rules to make it work better. He was never going to be balanced in a PC sense, but he worked well enough as a character. I suspect later on the cleric casting would distort his effectiveness upward, but this was way long term and not within the scope of the game. Any which way, thanks for the nice PC idea and he fit in well. I saw Adail slowly proceed towards his dream, taking steps to improve himself against all comers. That was cool, and I was hoping the Lich would be a place for a strong moral test of his fiber. No matter the choices he made when it was all over, I felt he would be much better defined. The way it was going, I think I was right.

I don't mind you not being around for extra stuff. That's completely your call and a factor of how much you want to invest into the game.  I'm also completely sympathetic to stomach problems, I have some of the same issues. Sure, you missed some time and sessions because of that, but it's okay. That all being said, did you feel that by putting in less you were less attached/involved/important in the game than others?  Other players, do you have an opinion there?

If Adail ever went back home to Elysium at high/epic levels, he'd be sent on a quest to prove his battle worthiness against a powerful foe. In particular, a Max HD hellcat terror from the Gates of Hell. I could think of no better way to prove he was the baddest rodent around.

Bad stuff? Slow typing is a minor concern. I'm not going to rehash that canard since it's not fair to you and it's not fair for me to tell you how to type. What else...I wished you'd hit up Nikkolai as a mentor harder, though not all of this was your fault. Still, even being more reserved and leading by example for it said a lot about Adail's morals, too.

I think you were pretty solid but never quite hooked into the game. A lot of reasons, some of which are above. Happens.

You're a pretty great player over all. Since I forgot to add this to Rat's post, he's great too. I'd recommend you to other DMs.

[Carthrat]

She didn't 'grow', no. Not really. She's meant to be static to some degree. I was prepared to enter into romance subplots of some variety, but there were no interesting guys. (Really, there weren't too many cool NPCs to bond with, which I think is a shame.)

I don't mind you putting a spin on the deck quest at all! I expected them to manifest as other people or as local phenomena. But I must admit that I'm disheartened as to how many came down to a fight, or pushed towards it. Star was a fight. Skull was a fight. Talons was a fight. Rogue was meant to be a fight and I recall you telling me you didn't expect it to not be. Gem was a fight, except he at least wasn't the one fighting. I felt you could've been far more creative there.

Moon and Balance weren't a fight, but I have to admit the whole challenge there was so bizzare that I still don't know what to make of it. I guess it fits?

On tactics, I don't need every opponent to be a military genius. But I do want them to have some degree of common sense? Or for them to not suddenly suffer brain failure if they start winning. This is kind of an offshoot, but I always look for reasons why people behave the way they do. When it's nonsensical, I get frustrated. Unfortunately, a lot of extreme-alignment-creatures behave in nonsensical ways. This game reminded me why I don't like alignments, honestly, especially when they're explicit world elements.

I don't really want to talk about other players myself. If you're interested, PM me?

[Carthrat]

Actually I'm sort of wrong on Gem. It was only a fight after I got him! Right.

[Anastasia]

She didn't 'grow', no. Not really. She's meant to be static to some degree. I was prepared to enter into romance subplots of some variety, but there were no interesting guys. (Really, there weren't too many cool NPCs to bond with, which I think is a shame.)

Agreed. I wished Granny Tam could have been around more, or Rogue or a few other interesting sorts. It never worked out due to the nature of the game, and I was hesitant to add a constant NPC face traveling with you. I ended up with Yulia when it did happen. Don't get me wrong, I liked her and had fun with her, but another NPC would've been better there. That said this is basically the peril of running a game with lots of traveling and no set location.

I don't mind you putting a spin on the deck quest at all! I expected them to manifest as other people or as local phenomena. But I must admit that I'm disheartened as to how many came down to a fight, or pushed towards it. Star was a fight. Skull was a fight. Talons was a fight. Rogue was meant to be a fight and I recall you telling me you didn't expect it to not be. Gem was a fight, except he at least wasn't the one fighting. I felt you could've been far more creative there.

Moon and Balance weren't a fight, but I have to admit the whole challenge there was so bizzare that I still don't know what to make of it. I guess it fits?

Balance wasn't quite right upstairs. Having the ability to alter reality at will on a Limbo damaged card-concept lead to him being a bit erratic. I agree with the rest, I meant for a little more variety there. The next card - probably Sun or some such since you were in a world with Lathander - was loosely plotted to be a puzzle.

On tactics, I don't need every opponent to be a military genius. But I do want them to have some degree of common sense? Or for them to not suddenly suffer brain failure if they start winning. This is kind of an offshoot, but I always look for reasons why people behave the way they do. When it's nonsensical, I get frustrated. Unfortunately, a lot of extreme-alignment-creatures behave in nonsensical ways. This game reminded me why I don't like alignments, honestly, especially when they're explicit world elements.

Take a pit fiend. It has a super-genius intellect, wisdom and charisma. It behaves perfectly rational and up to it's fearsome mental capacities, if you accept the basic caveat that it does so through a filter of lawful evil. To our standards of sane, they ain't sane at all. To our standards, any outsider is insane. To their standards, they're absolutely right and logical in everything they do. (Or unlogical with slaad, whatever.) I think going into a game and expecting fantastical creatures to act according to how you think is a fallacy.

[Anastasia]

Oh, and I was pretty sure you wanted some of Rogue for romance. At least that's the vibe I got. That was one reason he was going to come back, to see if that went anywhere.