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[Anastasia]

Is this a bad time to say Sylvie would take human paragon except it's played out?

[Corwin]

Decided to put this here. Dune and I were talking about the VoP and while we have our disagreements, there is something important we agree on there. It's clumsy, for lack of better word. In a vacuum, many of the issues could be avoided by taking on a minimalist approach and always coming down on the side of 'no' whenever I wonder if the Vow allows me anything. Playing with other people, however, that would probably ruin everyone's experience and my own. At the time we were offered a steady, paying job, my first reaction was that I must refuse to be truthful to the Vow. But then, where would we be? Since Dune knew about the Vow and still set us up that way, I ended up deciding that certain devitation is okay for the sake of making it a fun game.

Now, I'm thinking of changing the way it works to streamline things. I can identify several issues from experience with the VoP in Balmuria so far. First, it can benefit from a clearer definition that is broken down into several smaller rules/commandments one follows, than a large and all-encompassing ban (and its list of tax evasions). Second, whenever the line is being towed, it leads to awkwardness. Like paladin codes of conduct, the Vows are very much an all or nothing deal, but maybe they shouldn't be for genuine mistakes. I think it could benefit from a clause that expresses disapproval with a minor transgression that didn't happen in bad faith rather than force Dune to wonder each time if it was minor or not and force me to rebuild my entire character over it. Third, the few exceptions the Vow has are really irksome thematically, and while I can understand why they exist, I don't really like them. So I think I can open the Vow a bit more under some circumstances, close it up a bit under others and add penalties. Here is how I think it can work.

Vow of Poverty
Constantly:
-You may not own or use any masterwork of magical items (including one-use items).
-You may not benefit from masterwork items or magical items (including one-use items), even if another uses them for you.
-You may only own or use simple weapons.
-You may not have money or gather possessions in lieu of money.
-You may not benefit personally, directly or indirectly, from your job. Contributions to your charities do not constitute a benefit to you unless the charity in question gives you material aid in turn.

While working:
-You may engage in commerce on behalf of your workplace or client in the area of negotiation of fees, haggling and similiar activities. This may still not benefit you directly in any way.
-You may engage in advertising on behalf of your workplace or client.

Penalties:
-If you benefit directly from another person's actions or benefit indirectly from your own, all the benefits of the Vow are suspended for 24 hours.
-If you inadvertantly break the Vow due to no fault of your own, given the facts available to you at the time, all the benefits of the Vow are suspended for 24 hours.

* Why 24 hours? Reattunement. Pretty sure Pathfinder uses it for stat boosters you wear. Could be a week like the Ring of Sustenance, I suppose, but I just don't like 1/week things.
* Why the changes? To make the game play more smoothly. Why is getting something our boss/client pays for totally okay when Andrea is there to supply the cash, but iffy when she isn't around? Both times it's essentially my lead, and in both cases our client should reimburse Whimsical Sweets for the money, and the difference is sophistry. So why not do away with it?
* Why can't I get potions fed to me? Because it feels really abusable, with me implicitely asking people to have things for me to get around the 'I can't have things' ban. This way, I can still be fed a healing potion if I'm bleeding out to death, since a temporary loss of powers is better than dying, but I can't really just 'borrow' a potion helpfully-provided by someone if I get hit once in combat. I think it should sufficiently pay back for the allowances made.
* What about exceptions? Well, I figure they can exist. In a clear and present danger to a rich client, where you are hired to act as a body double to trick assassins, is it alright to refuse to wear the client's jewelry to pose as her? I don't think it should, given the Vow is an Exalted one. But if and when they happen, they can be penalized all the same, and the ruleset can be expanded.

[Anastasia]

I'll look at this in the morning. Saying so that you know I at least saw the post.

[Ebiris]

I've made no secret of hating Vow of Poverty with a fiery passion, so personally I approve of the more clear and concise version you've outlined. The provisos seem straightforward and easy enough to make calls on when they come up, and the 'lose powers for 24 hours for a minor infraction' bit works well considering the precedent of that happening to druids if they do something like wear metal armour, and lets it be considered more thoughtfully than the big huge 'you lose all abilities forever including the feat you spent on taking VoP which you can't ever retrain. Fuck you!' sanction.

As a suggestion for clarity, I'd add alchemical items to the first two bullet points.

[Anastasia]

That's all fine. Go ahead and add alchemical items, that's a useful clarification.

[Anastasia]

I'm gonna go ahead and give each of you some feedback. It beats me posting a bunch of questions right now, I think.

Veserya

You're first since you're new and thus should be the shortest. I'm enjoying Veserya right now, her personality meshes into the group well. She particularly resonated with Marianne, the shared haughty noble routine makes for a strong base of interactions. No real comments otherwise right now.

Arachiel

I think Arachiel's going better than Orval was. I feel like you have a distinct voice to play with and you're improving. This is good! Arachiel's brand new and has a lot of easy things to riff off of. On the other hand, I think you'd be best served to avoid lines like this:

<Arachiel> "Okay!"

I've found that lines that hold only dialogue tend to read weaker in RP than lines with a little more meat to them. You don't need a mountain of description with each line, but a little bit helps frame what you're doing and add flavor.

Are you on a tablet sometimes, or a phone? Is this an impact?

Whurric

I feel like you're floundering a bit lately. You've had less lines since Orval got creamed and it's felt like you've been struggling to re-establish your character since then. Is this true? If it is, I think you need to spend some time fleshing out Whurric in your mind and generally adding more to him. Make it flow easier, yeah?

I've had Yuria around to give you a foil to work with. Do you think that's working well for you?

Aaeru

I feel like you're really clingy about Neveril. I suppose you're compensating for me forgetting about her occasionally? I'm all well and good with you having a relationship with another PC or an NPC, but it almost feels like MY GIRLFRIEND territory. I do feel some of it is that Neveril was handed to me instead of being developed organically. I don't think I'm going to allow pre-existing relationships like that in future. I feel awkward sometimes because there's stuff going on there that I'm just guessing about. I've been flip-flopping a lot on if this is an impact since I wasn't sure, but a few things lately have made up my mind about it.

You're interacting well with NPCs. I like how you get along with Marianne and Yuria, even if the latter's been co-opted lately by her chase for Whurric's co-er, attention.

Josa

You're one dimensional. This isn't entirely a bad thing. Yuria's one dimensional too and it works. Your gimmick works as far as it goes, it just doesn't go as far as Yuria's. Plus your natural situation and disposition has you a bit more aloof from the others. At the same time, your excessive verbiage effectively deflects attention because people see that and tune out Josa being Josa.

Silver's a whole other mess. Have you ever considered bitch smacking her? Sometimes a man has to be a man.

Sylvie

I hope you're doing well, wherever you are right now. If you end up coming back we'll see how you're doing then, okay? I know it's not fair, but life is life.

Neveril

I talked about you back in Aaeru's section so go read that first. I think a lot of the problem is that you're external rather than internal. PCs are external and do things to get my attention. NPCs are internal and I do things for them to get attention. Do you see where the problem is? I think continuing to grow and going native will solve your problems eventually. Stick with it. Most of this isn't really your fault.

Balyss

Party hard!

You're a lot of fun, bu t at the same time you're still fuzzy around the edges. I think you need more screen time, but on the other hand you're not likely to join Whimsical Sweets as it stands. I really enjoy you being a loose homage to a bunch of things, plus the Sailor Moon references always make me giggle. I wonder if you would've been Usagi if you were born in that universe? Makes you think, doesn't it? Just focus on firming up your image.

Marianne

You know what? I was about ready to write you off a little while ago. The party didn't like you and you didn't have much reason to like them. Then you just clicked. The noblewoman thing sharpened and you started getting along with Aaeru and then Veserya. In a few weeks you've strongly overhauled your image and personality. I'm surprised it's happened so fast, but you've clicked. Just keep on doing what you're doing right now and tone down the bitchy elements.

Lyris

I feel like your fortunes have waned whilst Marianne's have waxed. You get along well with Arachiel and seem to enjoy having her around to subtly manipulate. I think it's a small miracle that you didn't try and get her laid at the beach party, but just as well it didn't happen. You're down to earth, curt and business like, a natural foil to Marianne. Try to be a little more sociable - I know you were hoping on Janson and thinking about stealing him away from Sylvie(Yes seriously, she sorta liked him and would be willing to try), but that's no excuse.

Yuria

Yes, you're a gimmick. I still love you. Maybe I'm easily amused, but you constantly make me grin. I've wanted to play a super stereotyped blonde for a good long time and you've delivered. Just try and keep being funny.

Yes, the NPC feedbacks are purely whimsy. Shame on you if you couldn't figure that out until now.

[Merc]

Whurric

I feel like you're floundering a bit lately. You've had less lines since Orval got creamed and it's felt like you've been struggling to re-establish your character since then. Is this true? If it is, I think you need to spend some time fleshing out Whurric in your mind and generally adding more to him. Make it flow easier, yeah?

I've had Yuria around to give you a foil to work with. Do you think that's working well for you?

Well, to be fair, it's not just Orval dying, but also Janson, and Janson's really one of the characters Whurric most interacted with, even more than his brother at that.

I've never really had a chance to interact with Aaeru, every single time we somehow either miss each other or we go on different jobs. The only time we ever really interacted was a few minutes looking at job boards or during the Senaril thing (and I still interacted with Janson more then). Veserya, I've pretty much just met. Archie I interact with a bit when she's around, but she's starting to form bonds elsewhere. NPCs...not a single one of them except for Yuria and Josa have I had a chance to really interact with, same as with Aaeru.

So it is a -little- hard to get more involved. I'd kind of either want one large group job to come up, or something where I'm split up with someone I've never interacted with. Everyone I ever grouped up with is dead, or is Yuria/Josa. I get along alright with Josa, we do seem to have something of an easy camaraderie going on (although he's meddlesome with regards to Yuria!).

As for Yuria, and her being a foil...well, while I certainly like her, and I don't mind a relationship with her, she's honestly fun to interact with, but at the same time I...kinda feel uncomfortable as a player whenever she's very clingy or hinting towards something perverted? Yeah, I'm not exactly a prude, I'm not about to claim otherwise, but it still feels weird/awkward to RP around that? Not only that, but it kinda does push for us to leave the rest of the group and do something else, so again, not a lot of chance to develop other sides of the character either.

I'd rather get some opportunities to do stuff with new dance partners if you really want to try and bring more aspects of Whurric out, honestly.

[Corwin]

Stuff going on you're guessing about? Like...?

Anyway, yes, it's unfun when you keep on forgetting or excluding her, I said as such before. I'd love to have things work out, but I'm not really sure what I can do on my part to help, and while you said you finally made up your mind I'm not really sure what you mean by that either. Hint?

-Lyris. I still like her just fine, but she's really really crude. All the time, in every scene.

[Ebiris]

I miss Janson, not least because his absence cut down opportunities to interact with certain NPCs, but I also enjoy Veserya and she gets on with NPCs that Janson barely interacted with, so overall I can call it a wash.

Echoing the sentiments about Lyris's crudity, though. She started off really cool with the whole unapproachable mystique and the cold professional demeanour, but it seems like as soon as we got to know the 'real' her she went balls to the wall maneating drunkard. I kinda miss the facade.

[Corwin]

Janson.  :(

Even if Sylvie rescues him, it's just not the same....

[Yuthirin]

I miss Janson too. :(

As for Archie's dialogue, I am occasionally on a tablet, and rarely on a phone. This will increase if I am able to play from work. I don't really expect that, though. I'm basically being handed an office manager's position without the title, authority, or pay. Just the work. September will be better. I'm really enjoying her and hope to be able to continue on. As for Lyris trying to get Archie laid, I actually designed her to be virginal and plan to keep her there. It's fine if Lyris prods her about it sometimes, but don't let her push it too hard please. >_>

On Josa, one-dimensional character is one-dimensional. It works.

On Silver, she just need some Midol and some dark chocolate and RAINBOWS!

On Sylvie, we all miss her.

On Aaeru & Neveril, I actually think it's kind of cute the way they interact. Aaeru is definitely the dominant personality of the pair, and she's possessive. It's not uncommon.

On Balyss, I think we all love her. She's awesome. She throws killer parties.

On Lyris, yes, she's often very crude. Some of it is expected, but perhaps maybe scale it back just a tiny smidge possibly? Your character, your call.

On Yuria, I actually agree with you on her funniness, but her potential as a growing character is there too. I don't see her as being quite as one-dimensional as, say, Josa, who is easily predictable. Yuria is starting to grow out of that, I think.

Feedback is delicious.