Random manga chatter

[Grahf]

The latest Maou might as well have the subtitle Hotsprings and

Spoiler: ShowHide

Rival Demon Kings.

[Dracos]

*reads latest Bleach*

Retcon so weak.

*reads latest Naruto*

Hinata has trouble with a technique that Neji was throwing around as a Genin?  Seriously?

It seems to be just setting up trope scenes for the sake of having them.

*reads One Piece*

I admit, there's a lot going on.  Currently the group is in 5 'teams'.  He's done that a lot before, but it seems a bit messy here.

[Empyrean]

Hinata has trouble with a technique that Neji was throwing around as a Genin?  Seriously?

That's actually consistent with the data books that have been released. Neji was just crazy good, and at the start of the series his taijutsu was rated 3.5 out of 5, while Kakashi is a 4 at that point. In the second and third data books released, Neji and Kakashi are both 4.5 out of 5 in taijutsu. Hinata starts at a 2.5 and progresses up to 3.5, so as a Chunin she's about as good at taijutsu as Neji was as a Genin. Hinata is a little smarter and a little less inept at genjutsu, but otherwise is outclassed by Neji in everything else, and her confidence issues were what was holding her back with that technique.

When she was having her little flashback montage before attempting to finish the technique, she thought about Naruto holding her hand. That was a good sign; at least it looks like Kishimoto isn't pretending it didn't happen, even if Naruto seems to have forgotten about it the instant his dad showed up and asked him about Sakura. *grumble grumble*

[Dracos]

Yes, but that's just more of the silliness that permeates the series.  Confidence issues or not, she clearly hasn't been deemed branch, so she's still technically the official heir to the clan who's supposed to be retaining their power and heritage.  Nobody has dragged her aside and made sure she knew this stuff in the last 3 years?

Not even say...Neji, who'd gotten over it enough to DIE FOR HER?

Neji knowing it was something special.  Her not knowing it at this point is something weird.  Especially since the warfront had both the clan head and the clan heir on it.  Basically an opportunity for everyone but her little sister to get wiped out.

Not saying that Neji couldn't be better than her at the techinique or other issues.

But struggling to perform it at all and it being a breakthrough that she can paints her as pathetic.  Where everyone else is dishing out techniques that would be inconceivable for a genin to be pulling off, she's showing that she's basically 2.5 years minimum behind where Neji was in taijutsu, despite being a confirmed ninja for at least the last 3.5 years at this point.

[Empyrean]

Yes, but that's just more of the silliness that permeates the series.  Confidence issues or not, she clearly hasn't been deemed branch, so she's still technically the official heir to the clan who's supposed to be retaining their power and heritage.  Nobody has dragged her aside and made sure she knew this stuff in the last 3 years?

Early on, Hiashi said she wasn't necessary because her younger sister Hanabi was already better despite being five years younger. At least at that point, he had given up on training her because he thought it was a waste of time. It doesn't say that she officially lost her heiress status, but Hiashi didn't care that she could get killed, so it seems likely, since having (and losing) an official heiress who wasn't very good would make a clan look bad. I'm pretty sure that Hanabi is the official heiress, and they did leave her behind for the world war, which lends a little more credence to that theory.

Not even say...Neji, who'd gotten over it enough to DIE FOR HER?

Neji knowing it was something special.  Her not knowing it at this point is something weird.  Especially since the warfront had both the clan head and the clan heir on it.  Basically an opportunity for everyone but her little sister to get wiped out.

Knowing it and being able to do it are different things. She could do the 32-hits version, and her little flashback actually does show Neji telling her how to complete the technique. Everybody who doesn't have a Shenanigan has the same learning process for most techniques: someone tells them how to do it, then they fiddle around with it until they eventually have a breakthrough on their own.

Not saying that Neji couldn't be better than her at the techinique or other issues.

But struggling to perform it at all and it being a breakthrough that she can paints her as pathetic.  Where everyone else is dishing out techniques that would be inconceivable for a genin to be pulling off, she's showing that she's basically 2.5 years minimum behind where Neji was in taijutsu, despite being a confirmed ninja for at least the last 3.5 years at this point.

It was a huge deal when Neji could do it as a genin--reaction shots all around--and Neji was way better than typical chunin when he was a genin right from the start. The latest stat book has Sasuke on par with where Neji was as a genin. Of the Konoha 11, only Rock Lee ever gets better than Neji was as a genin, and that only happened in the latest stat book. Hinata's taijutsu keeps pace with Sasuke's throughout and they both catch up to where Neji was at the start, while everybody else is worse. By the start of the timeskip, Neji was as good as Kakashi, Asuma, Jiraiya, and other big name characters. Only the best taijutsu fighters in the series are ever better than Neji was at 14.

You're right that it doesn't make Hinata look good to learn a technique two and a half years behind Neji, but I think you're underestimating how retarded good Neji was, and he's a year older than Hinata anyway. She's mostly suffering from having a skill set that invites direct comparisons with Neji, rather than having her own gimmick.

[Brian]

I think the point is more that it doesn't help make Hinata look special or particularly competent without significant analysis, which is arguably not the intent of the scene.  (I haven't read the latest chapter, and won't until more hilarious sharinganigans are mentioned.)  But Hinata has had relatively unique moments of awesome, up to and including matching Neji in a two-person defensive technique, and, I dunno, that crazy lion-fist-thing when she died against Pain to try and save Naruto?

That may be a better, "This doesn't look impressive at a glance," comparison point.

[Dracos]

That made me ponder that.

http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Hanabi_Hy%C5%ABga

Hanawho? :P

Seriously, that stuff is kind of silly too.  Hinata loses out to a non-character effectively?  I get who she is, but I only just considered how non-existent she is in both manga and anime takes.  I suspect she's not part of the Ninja World War because she's irrelevant and doesn't exist anymore.  No Part 2 take on her has even occurred (Probably easy to knock down as a claim.  Go for it :3).  Hiashi's personality is all over the map on these kinds of things so it's hard to really take reads on him seriously.  It's why it's plausible to paint him as Old School Noble, Villain, Distant Parent, Abandoning Parent, or Abusive Parent without any real effort to discuss why because all of those are plausible reads on his few manga appearances.

Neji at least is a present genius (As genius ridiculous goes for that canon).  All three of them live in an environment where death can come at any time.  That she doesn't have basic full expertise at this point (again 2.5 years older and more training than when Neji was casually showing off mastery of the skill) makes her look dumb and makes Hiashi look more dumb in not being prepared for either of his kids to get killed.

I think the comment at the end of that wiki article is on target for actual canon:
Neither of them are heirs in Kishimoto's take.  They're just wedding stock for later.

[Empyrean]

I think the point is more that it doesn't help make Hinata look special or particularly competent without significant analysis, which is arguably not the intent of the scene.  (I haven't read the latest chapter, and won't until more hilarious sharinganigans are mentioned.)  But Hinata has had relatively unique moments of awesome, up to and including matching Neji in a two-person defensive technique, and, I dunno, that crazy lion-fist-thing when she died against Pain to try and save Naruto?

That may be a better, "This doesn't look impressive at a glance," comparison point.

Yeah, the presentation is not particularly impressive. My first reaction when I read it was "she couldn't do that before?" So I did some digging and realized I was just using Neji as a benchmark for what Hyuga should be able to do. When Neji did the 64 palms in the Chunin exams, Hiashi's reaction was that he had surpassed the main house. I looked at the stat books, and came to the conclusion that Hinata is decent but not outstanding on the whole, and that Kishimoto is screwing up the way this is presented so that she looks like she's just bad. As a side note, according to the stat books Sakura is about as bad as her performance indicates. She starts as basically the worst ninja ever, and improves substantially to the point where she is merely mediocre.

Regarding the lion fist thing in particular, after Hinata does the 8 trigrams, 64 palms thing successfully, her scene in the latest chapter ends with her firing up the lion fists and saying she's going to do it again with the lion fists going. If she can manage that, it would be a level of badass that we never saw out of Neji, so maybe she'll get a chance to demonstrate how good she could be.

Hanawho? :P

Hanabi basically exists because it's really hard for an only child to be the Unfavorite, and the Unfavorite is a standard woobie. Hanabi's characterization literally only goes as far as "Hinata's more capable sibling that her dad likes better." She gets only a couple of lines in the entire series.

Seriously, that stuff is kind of silly too.  Hinata loses out to a non-character effectively?  I get who she is, but I only just considered how non-existent she is in both manga and anime takes.  I suspect she's not part of the Ninja World War because she's irrelevant and doesn't exist anymore.  No Part 2 take on her has even occurred (Probably easy to knock down as a claim.  Go for it :3).  Hiashi's personality is all over the map on these kinds of things so it's hard to really take reads on him seriously.  It's why it's plausible to paint him as Old School Noble, Villain, Distant Parent, Abandoning Parent, or Abusive Parent without any real effort to discuss why because all of those are plausible reads on his few manga appearances.

Agreed. Hinata is kind of a secondary character and Hiashi is even less important, so the relationship between them isn't explained well at all. It's basically just enough to make Hinata a woobie and an underdog.

Neji at least is a present genius (As genius ridiculous goes for that canon).  All three of them live in an environment where death can come at any time.  That she doesn't have basic full expertise at this point (again 2.5 years older and more training than when Neji was casually showing off mastery of the skill) makes her look dumb and makes Hiashi look more dumb in not being prepared for either of his kids to get killed.

I think the comment at the end of that wiki article is on target for actual canon:
Neither of them are heirs in Kishimoto's take.  They're just wedding stock for later.

I'm not sure what "basic full expertise" is. Yes, Neji makes her look dumb, but that's just because Neji is ridiculous and Kishimoto gives us only Neji for comparison. It's Kishimoto's fumble for not giving us a better comparison, so we end up with the expectation that Hinata should have been able to figure out the ultimate technique of the strongest taijutsu style in Konoha before now. It's a breakthrough, but it doesn't look like one because Neji's been doing it forever. If Neji weren't throwing it around like it's nothing, Hinata pulling off the 64 hit combo would be a lot more impressive.

[thepanda]

Oh, Sai. *shakes head sadly*

[Dracos]

Sakura is being presented as basically being a superior Tsunade at this point.

So stupid.

[Empyrean]

I never liked Sai. I think it'd be funny if Naruto responded to him like, "Actually, we got Sasuke back, you're off the team."

Sakura is getting the opposite of the treatment that Hinata got. Sakura sucks, but she's getting played up as useful. I'm not buying it.

[Dracos]

Ippo seems to actually be focusing all on Ippo leading up toward Ricardo.

I am cool with this.

[Merc]

It also has some scenes of Itagaki being an arrogant lazy ass, which is unfortunate. What are the chances he'll actually lose and Imai will take the belt? (Probably pretty low, sadly)

[Dracos]

Itchiwho?

Imai takes the belt! :3

[Merc]

http://www.batoto.net/comic/_/comics/scientia-r9395

Only two chapters of this right now, but it was kind of nice and to read these short sci-fi stories. The summary made me expect a 'bad end', with science going bad and the protagonist of the stories getting fucked by it, but they're actually pretty nice.