Random DM nagging.

[Anastasia]

GOLEM WAR! IRONWYRM GOLEM VS THE INFERNAL SIEGEBREAKER!

A few days ago, I posted the Infernal Siegebreaker over in the Balmuria Rules and Setting board. Afina took umbrage with a golem meant to wreck her shit and designed this as a counter. So this begs the question of who would win a fight between them. In other words, golem death match time!

Ground rules

1. For the sake of this, the golems fight alone with no support. This includes no buffs or magic items not already on their sheets.
2. The battlefield is a featureless plane and they start 100ft from each other. Neither construct is surprised.
3. In the event of a rules conflict between them, I'll make a judgment and also analyze it aftewards, to see if it changed the course of the battle.
4. No retreats. Maneuver is possible, but this is a fight to zero HP or until the result is certain. It's a combat demo, don't worry about it.
5. It's a demo under artificial conditions, so take it with a grain of salt.

So let's ROCK!

> roll 1d20+4 Infernal Siegebreaker
* Hatbot --> "Kokokokokokoko rolls 1d20+4 Infernal Siegebreaker and gets 20." [1d20=16]
> roll 1d20+3 Ironwyrm Golem
* Hatbot --> "Kokokokokokoko rolls 1d20+3 Ironwyrm Golem and gets 15." [1d20=12]

Round 1

Siegebreaker wins init. It advances 20ft to 80ft away and breath weapons the Ironwyrm Golem. As the golem is immune to supernatural abilities, this does nothing. Likewise, the Ironwyrm Golem tries its breath weapon. As the Siegebreaker is immune to fire, this is a waste of time as well.

Round 2

Siegebreaker advances 40ft to 40ft away. Golem closes in to melee range, 10ft away. Siegebreaker has reach on it so it eats an AoO. Further, the Siegebreaker's Shatter Golem feat allows it to apply its sunder specialist bonuses as a +12 bonus to hit and a +12d4 bonus to damage. However, hellfire slams are nulled, as it is a supernatural ability.

> roll 1d20+58 (+12 sunder specialist)
* Hatbot --> "Kokokokokokoko rolls 1d20+58 (+12 sunder specialist) and gets 70." [1d20=12]
> roll 3d6+15+12d4
* Hatbot --> "Kokokokokokoko rolls 3d6+15+12d4 and gets 58." [3d6=2, 1, 3][12d4=2, 3, 3, 4, 2, 2, 4, 4, 2, 4, 3, 4]
Ironwyrm Golem: 533/591

What's worse is that thanks to touch of adamantine from shattering knight, the siegebreaker beats the golem's damage reduction. After that AoO, it closes in and tries to take a bite out of the siegebreaker.

> roll 1d20+52 (-10 PA)
* Hatbot --> "Kokokokokokoko rolls 1d20+52 (-10 PA) and gets 57." [1d20=5]
> roll 2d10+34-30
* Hatbot --> "Kokokokokokoko rolls 2d10+34-30 and gets 10." [2d10=2, 4]
Infernal Siegebreaker: 525/535

Not good. As a quirk of the rules, the golem can't break the siegebreaker's damage reduction. This isn't authentic to a likely battle between them, so just bear that in mind for the moment. I'll come back to this later, especially if this resolves as I imagine it will. Also, only -10 PA this round since the golem's feeling out the siegebreaker's defenses. It'll run into that next round on it's turn, too, since it's only reasonable.

Round 3

Infernal Siegebreaker: 535/535

Fast healing fixes the damage before the IS goes all maimy and beaty on the golem. As these are two slow, giant constructs, it's going to turn into an FA war from here.

> roll 1d20+48 (+12 sunder specialist, -10 PA)
* Hatbot --> "Kokokokokokoko rolls 1d20+48 (+12 sunder specialist, -10 PA) and gets 50." [1d20=2]
> roll 1d20+48 (+12 sunder specialist, -10 PA)
* Hatbot --> "Kokokokokokoko rolls 1d20+48 (+12 sunder specialist, -10 PA) and gets 67." [1d20=19]
> roll 3d6+25+12d4
> roll 3d6+25+12d4
* Hatbot --> "Kokokokokokoko rolls 3d6+25+12d4 and gets 63." [3d6=1, 3, 4][12d4=2, 3, 4, 3, 3, 3, 3, 1, 2, 3, 1, 2]
* Hatbot --> "Kokokokokokoko rolls 3d6+25+12d4 and gets 71." [3d6=4, 3, 6][12d4=4, 4, 1, 3, 4, 4, 2, 2, 1, 4, 3, 1]
Ironwyrm Golem: 399/591

IS used the same -10 PA to feel out, though it's about optimal for it since it has less to-hit to burn. Ow.

Ironwyrm Golem: 409/591

Fast healing kicks in, then a hopefully crushing FA follows.

> roll 1d20+42 (-20 PA) bite
* Hatbot --> "Kokokokokokoko rolls 1d20+42 (-20 PA) bite and gets 43." [1d20=1]
> roll 1d20+42 (-20 PA) claw
* Hatbot --> "Kokokokokokoko rolls 1d20+42 (-20 PA) claw and gets 46." [1d20=4]
> roll 1d20+42 (-20 PA) claw
* Hatbot --> "Kokokokokokoko rolls 1d20+42 (-20 PA) claw and gets 45." [1d20=3]
> roll 1d20+42 (-20 PA) wings
* Hatbot --> "Kokokokokokoko rolls 1d20+42 (-20 PA) wings and gets 51." [1d20=9]
> roll 1d20+42 (-20 PA) wings
* Hatbot --> "Kokokokokokoko rolls 1d20+42 (-20 PA) wings and gets 62." [1d20=20]
> roll 1d20+42 (-20 PA) tail
* Hatbot --> "Kokokokokokoko rolls 1d20+42 (-20 PA) tail and gets 44." [1d20=2]
> roll 2d6+34-30
* Hatbot --> "Kokokokokokoko rolls 2d6+34-30 and gets 9." [2d6=4, 1]
> roll 2d6+34-30
* Hatbot --> "Kokokokokokoko rolls 2d6+34-30 and gets 16." [2d6=6, 6]

That's some remarkably shit luck. It's arguable if it should've jumped to -20 instead of going slower to -15 PA, but I don't think it matters. I think it's clear that in these conditions, the siegebreaker wins. The quirks of the format are overwhelming and the superior number of attacks tink while the siegebreaker makes each strike count.

Now if you assume that the golem can beat IS's DR? It gets uglier. Odds are FAs favor the golem, so the siegebreaker may try a mobile battle force AoOs and a slower pace. I suspect trading 2-1 isn't a winning strategy for the siegebreaker, but it's a long battle. Without rolling it out, I'd guess an 8/2 or 7/3 win split for the golem under those circumstances.

They're reasonably well matched all in all. I think it's reasonable to say that a winner would come down to the situation and support each construct has. Once both are properly geared up, it's anyone's guess who will win. For what it's worth, the Siegebreaker's equipment will focus on defense, since hellfire slams and sunder specialist gives it enough offense already.

[Anastasia]

Okay, so what are y'all gonna do with the ghost's armor in loot? Sell it and divvy up the money or something else? Someone post that and shares (assuming a sell) so we can get that sorted.

[Anastasia]

Oh, for fuck's sake. Will one you step up and say something about it or start a discussion? I don't care how or who sorts loot, only so long as it gets done and sorted already.

[Iron Dragoon]

I say we sell it. I dunno if it would fit one of the NPCs, but no one's said anything. At 83500, that's 27833.33/per PC, or if we include and NPC (as I think one was with us when we got it), it's an even 20875.

[Yuthirin]

Whoa whoa whoa
Don't get upset. I didn't see the e-mail notification about the post.

[Anastasia]

I'm not upset. I do, however, want this done before session start. So let's get it done.

[Anastasia]

So hey, we game tonight. Reminder.

[Yuthirin]

BRING ON THE MASS MURDER

[Anastasia]

Less that, more normal D&D. Hopefully.

[Anastasia]

This is being posted here as miscellanea. When I was working out the divine proxy template a few days ago, Eb was gracious enough to serve as a proofreader and sounding board. During this, the concept of making Marie Alicia's proxy came up. It was an amusing idea so I did a quick and dirty writeup of what she'd look like. This uses the level 34 Alicia writeup in the bestiary thread. It's scary what Marie can deal with souped up like this, especially if she got any more damage.

A lot of the finer details aren't filled in. They don't matter for this. This is purely for my own amusement and to see how much the proxy template boosts the base creature. The proxy template is over on the rules and setting board, by the way.

Proxy Marie

Courre eladrin familiar of Alicia with the proxy template.

Size/Type: Tiny Outsider (Chaotic, Eladrin, Good)
Hit Dice: 3d8+18 (454 hp, uses 80% of Alicia's hp)
Initiative: +13
Speed: 40ft, fly 160ft (perfect)
Armor Class: 54 (+2 size, +13 dex, +21 natural, +8 deflection)
Base Attack/CMB/CMD: +30/+32/63
Attack: Thunderstrike+50 (1d4+9 plus 1d6 electricity plus 1d4 sonic)
Full Attack: Thunderstrike+50/+45/+40/+35 (1d4+9 plus 1d6 electricity plus 1d4 sonic)
Space/Reach: 0ft/0ft
Special Attacks: Spell-like abilities.
Special Qualities: Alternate form, change shape, damage reduction 10/epic, immunity to electricity and petrification, magic circle against evil, resistance to acid and cold 10, spell resistance 49, tongues, divine traits, improved evasion, empathic link, deliver touch spells, speak with master, voice of Alicia, salient divine ability, Alica's watch.
Saves: Fort +31, Ref +31, Will +26
Abilities: Str 18, Dex 36, Con 22, Int 32, Wis 21, Cha 26
Skills: Bluff+45, Concentration+43, Craft(Painting)+48, Diplomacy+45, Intimidate+45, Knowledge(Arcana)+48, Knowledge(Nature)+48, Knowledge(Planes)+48, Knowledge(Religion)+48, Listen+42, Perform(Oratory)+45, Sense Motive+42, Spellcraft+48, Spot+42, Tumble+50
Feats: Deceptive Illumination(1), Constant Guardian(3)
Epic Feats: -
Alignment: Chaotic Good

Spell-Like Abilities

At will-dancing light, detect evil, faerie fire, silent image. 3/day-magic missile, sleep. 1/day-antimagic field, greater dispel magic, limited wish, mind blank. Caster level 34th.

Gear

Thunderstrike: Tiny longbow+5, shock and screaming.

[Anastasia]

Alright, ladies and gentlemen. We're here tonight to settle a grudge match between two creatures dedicated to devouring all them come across. That's right, tonight we're having a special match between The Tarrasque and The Father! This may or may not have been inspired by a certain tortle's comments. Blame him.

The rules are as follows.

1. For the sake of this, the two fight alone with no support. This includes no buffs or magic items not already on their sheets.
2. The battlefield is a featureless plane and they start 100ft from each other. Neither is surprised.
3. In the event of a rules conflict between them, I'll make a judgment and also analyze it aftewards, to see if it changed the course of the battle.
4. No retreats. Maneuver is possible, but this is a fight to zero HP or until the result is certain. It's a combat demo, don't worry about it.
5. It's a demo under artificial conditions, so take it with a grain of salt.

Alright, let's do this.

First of all, before initiative, the Father has an aura of madness. However, it's a mind-affecting ability and the Tarrasque nulls that. Moreover, he manages to null the Wisdom damage since he has a racial immunity to ability damage and drain. Fantastic. So the Father doesn't get an easy shot at a win. Incidentally, the Father's vulnerable to frightful presence, but -2 to attack rolls isn't changing anything here. For the sake of easy bookkeeping, I'll omit it. If looking over it when it's done indicates it may have mattered, I'll address it then.

So we hit initiative.

<Serith> Ko-LadyNitorisDreamscape roll for Serith < 18 > [d20=7]
> roll 1d20+11 The Tarrasque
<Serith> Ko-LadyNitorisDreamscape roll for Serith < 18 > [d20=7]
> roll 1d20+11 The Father declaring rerolls since it's a dead tie
<Serith> Ko-LadyNitorisDreamscape roll for Serith < 18 > [d20=7]
> roll 1d20+11 The Tarrasque
<Serith> Ko-LadyNitorisDreamscape roll for Serith < 19 > [d20=8]

The Tarrasque wins init. It uses rush to get to within 30ft and goes to try and take a bite out of the Father.

> roll 1d20+59 (+2 charge, -5 PA)
<Serith> Kotono roll for Serith < 61 > [d20=2]
> roll 6d8+40
<Serith> Kotono roll for Serith < 67 > [d8=2,4,6,6,8,1]
> roll 1d20+70
<Serith> Kotono roll for Serith < 83 > [d20=13]

A direct hit thanks to the Father being flatfooted. However, the Tarrasque doesn't beat the Father's damage reduction or regeneration. Plus improved grab didn't work out.

> roll 67-35
<Serith> Kotono roll for Serith < 32 >
1120/1120 (32 non-lethal)

But it gets worse. The Father's biting defense states that, 'Creatures that attack The Father with natural weapons take damage as if successfully attacked by The Father's devour ability.'

> roll 30d10
<Serith> Kotono roll for Serith < 170 > [d10=7,3,4,9,6,6,2,6,4,2,6,10,1,6,6,9,9,10,7,4,10,7,5,6,9,1,6,1,3,5]
> roll 1d20+60 fort
<Serith> Kotono roll for Serith < 67 > [d20=7]
1880/1880 (170 non-lethal)

The Father does beat the Tarrasque's damage reduction, so that all gets through. The Tarrasque's regen isn't beaten, but it's perfect regen anyway. On the plus side, the Tarrasque basically laughs off the DC for conversion. So it's now the Father's turn and he heals up that non-lethal damage with his regeneration 45. With that done, he's going to do what he does best: eat.

1120/1120
> roll 1d20+71
<Serith> Kotono roll for Serith < 78 > [d20=7]
> roll 30d10
<Serith> Kotono roll for Serith < 173 > [d10=2,10,7,10,2,9,10,4,6,9,2,2,9,5,10,4,3,2,10,10,6,4,1,7,3,3,3,5,9,6]
> roll 1d20+60 fort
<Serith> Kotono roll for Serith < 62 > [d20=2]
1880/1880 (343 non-lethal)

Ouch. On the plus side, the Father's quickened twinned empowered energy drain fails since the Tarrasque is immune, plus has a chance to deflect the ray anyway. So the Tarrasque's up. Regeneration fixes some damage and it decides to attack. It's a fairly simple creature at heart for all of its terrifying might.

1880/1880 (243 non-lethal)
> roll 1d20+57 (-5 PA) bite vs 63
<Serith> Kotono roll for Serith < 76 > [d20=19]
> roll 1d20+57 (-5 PA) bite vs 63 crit confirm
<Serith> Kotono roll for Serith < 70 > [d20=13]
> roll 18d8+120
<Serith> Kotono roll for Serith < 189 > [d8=5,6,4,6,4,3,1,1,6,1,8,1,2,8,1,4,5,3]
> roll 1d20+70 vs CMD of 89 for improved grab
<Serith> Kotono roll for Serith < 79 > [d20=9]
> roll 30d10 biting defense
<Serith> Kotono roll for Serith < 155 > [d10=10,3,2,2,8,1,2,5,6,8,3,10,6,1,10,10,1,2,3,10,2,4,5,8,9,7,3,9,2,3]
> roll 1d20+60
<Serith> Kotono roll for Serith < 70 > [d20=10]
1120/1120 (189 non-lethal) (Father)
1880/1880 (398 non-lethal) (Tarrasque)

Ouch. Bite and a crit. Now the question is, does the Tarrasque full attack and say the hell with biting defense, or try to mix up its strategy? It's a fairly simple beast and while it has some cunning, it doesn't have any other way to fight the Father. So it braces in and tries to finish it.

> roll 1d20+57 (-5 PA) horn 1
<Serith> Kotono roll for Serith < 68 > [d20=11]
> roll 2d10+40 (Father nulls the con damage)
<Serith> Kotono roll for Serith < 46 > [d10=2,4]
> roll 30d10
<Serith> Kotono roll for Serith < 150 > [d10=5,5,8,9,4,3,3,2,4,3,3,7,10,6,9,1,7,2,2,8,7,5,8,7,2,1,6,7,4,2]
> roll 1d20+60
<Serith> Kotono roll for Serith < 69 > [d20=9]
1120/1120 (200 non-lethal) (Father)
1880/1880 (548 non-lethal) (Tarrasque)

You know that bit about full attacking? Check that. It'll bypass the other attacks and quickly reformulate something less bitey. Meanwhile The Father continues to go back and forth with him, chomping and biting and generally being all devour-happy.

1120/1120 (155 non-lethal) (Father)
> roll 1d20+71
<Serith> Kotono roll for Serith < 74 > [d20=3]
> roll 30d10
<Serith> Kotono roll for Serith < 213 > [d10=4,9,4,10,5,9,9,3,10,8,8,10,9,8,1,5,8,6,9,7,2,9,6,10,10,8,8,1,9,8]
> roll 1d20+60
<Serith> Kotono roll for Serith < 68 > [d20=8]
1880/1880 (761 non-lethal) (Tarrasque)

Ow. Okay, time to try and mix it up. As another energy drain bounces off the Tarrasque's shell, its lizard brain realizes that hitting it dead on is bad. It decides to try trampling it instead. It does so and The Father elects to take the Reflex save this time, see what the Tarrasque's doing. Oh, and regen since regen is good.

1880/1880 (661 non-lethal)
> roll 1d20+38 reflex
<Serith> Kotono roll for Serith < 57 > [d20=19]
> roll 8d10+44
<Serith> Kotono roll for Serith < 76 > [d10=1,5,1,2,1,7,6,9]
1120/1120 (196 non-lethal)

It's a bit of a grey area in regards to biting defense and trample. Realistically, trample uses natural weapons but RAW biting defense doesn't apply. I could see an argument for biting defense working against trample, but I'll rule against it for now. I'll revisit this after, though I don't think it's going to change the outcome. Tarrasque ends up 25ft away from The Father and starts also playing range games. This is essentially irrelevant, since AoOs get the Tarrasque bit.

Speaking of movement, The Father could be using flight here and may well pull that card out if this battle starts going against him. But he's doing the eating thing for now. Anyway, the Father's up. It'll pursue and chomp - he can guess that the Tarrasque isn't so fond of being bit, and welcomes the AoO if it takes it anyway. It doesn't.

1120/1120 (151 non-lethal)
> roll 1d20+71
<Serith> Kotono roll for Serith < 79 > [d20=8]
> roll 30d10
<Serith> Kotono roll for Serith < 156 > [d10=1,10,6,7,5,6,7,9,7,4,3,7,1,5,2,3,5,6,1,8,5,4,2,1,9,10,7,8,6,1]
> roll 1d20+60
<Serith> Kotono roll for Serith < 72 > [d20=12]
1880/1880 (817 non-lethal)

Ow. The Tarrasque tries the trample again since this opponent's actually beating it in melee. As it struggles to comprehend that level of sheer bullshit, the Father takes the AoO instead of the save this time.

1880/1880 (717 non-lethal)
> roll 1d20+71
<Serith> Kotono roll for Serith < 84 > [d20=13]
> roll 30d10
<Serith> Kotono roll for Serith < 174 > [d10=9,7,3,9,3,2,9,5,9,10,7,3,3,10,1,4,10,3,3,8,2,5,4,10,3,8,8,3,6,7]
> roll 1d20+60
<Serith> Kotono roll for Serith < 71 > [d20=11]
> roll 8d10+44
<Serith> Kotono roll for Serith < 96 > [d10=7,1,10,9,10,6,8,1]
1880/1880 (891 non-lethal)(Tarrasque)
1120/1120 (212 non-lethal)(Father)

Not a winning trade. At this point, the Tarrasque's essentially screwed. For all the sheer numbers it throws around, the Father completely spoils him. The Father could have done distance attacks if needed via All-Devouring Hunger and similar magics, but it wasn't needed. Likewise, a crit on devour would deal an absurd 180d10 damage. Consumption spoils the Tarrasque like nothing else, and it struggles against an opponent that can shut it down. That's okay, I wrote the Tarrasque knowing it was strong but had ways to stop it.

Could the Tarrasque win? Probably not. Even if it manages to swallow The Father whole, it'll just keep on devouring. The Father is an absolutely horrifying opponent short of fighting it at extreme range. Even then, All-Devouring Hunger has a range of 2000ft. While a properly prepared foe can deal with this, it means the Father's able to fight opponents at nearly half a mile away.

So tonight's winner is...The Father! Let's hope the Father never gets his hands on a tarrasque, since you know he'd love to use conversion on one.

Blame Yuth.

[Yuthirin]

Hurray giant gibbering mouther god!

[Anastasia]

Since yesterday's session didn't happen, we had a casual Q&A in chat. I'm posting the relevant information here for posterity. A few bits are clarified, other bits are expanded on and typos are cleaned up.

1. Lillend reproduction

> Either of you have a good question you'd like answered about the gameworld? Something interesting or you're just curious about it? Give you a little something at least, if Iddy no-shows.
<Muirfinn> I'd like to know how lillends reproduce.
<Muirfinn> Details plz
> They have female bits that do what you'd expect. Their lower bits are hidden, scales slide aside when they're about to get intimate. Everything else more or less works as you'd expect beyond that. As outsiders they don't have a typical family structure - there aren't any male lillends, so they breed true barring extremely rare circumstances. The rare male child will be a half-celestial specimen of the father's race.
> They carry live young - as the fact they have breasts suggests.
<Muirfinn> That answers a lot, thanks.
> As outsiders, they can breed with most anything that's willing. Even a tortle.
> At worst, a bit of magic can help.
> Going back to the lillend, a lillend giving birth to a son is a rare thing. It can happen in only a few ways. 1. The father is an overwhelmingly powerful creature 2. The father's race breeds true as well, in this case it's a coinflip to which one prevails 3. There's magic or prophecy in the mix. If Muirfinn and Vivantha got together and Muirfinn really wanted a son, I'm sure there's magic he could manage to help that along. If nothing else, a miracle asking Mother Ocean for help on that's possible.
<Muirfinn> If Muirfinn and Vivantha have kids, he's not gonna be choosy.
> Yeah. If it ever happens, they'll figure something out.

2. Ponies

<Ithea> Is there a plane with nothing but magical ponies, sunshine and friendship?!?
<Ithea> =p
<Muirfinn> Please say no.
> Nope. Some of the heavens come close on the sunshine and friendship parts.
<Muirfinn> YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
> But there's no ponies. Never ponies.
* Muirfinn high-fives Kotono.
* Muirfinn has questions, but most of them are directly related to the current storyline
> Mielikki, goddess of unicorns, turns her worshipers into outsider typed unicorns in death. There's still plenty of other creatures around for variety, as she's a nature goddess.

3. Canderella's interests

<Muirfinn> What are Lief's chances with Canderella?
> Eh. She's a succubus, even a partially risen one thanks to Talos.
> So he has a chance in theory, I suppose.
> To be honest, physical acts aren't what Canderella gets out of a relationship, anyway.
<Muirfinn> Is it the Chaos?
<Muirfinn> Cause they'd make a lot of it.
> One dose chaos and a lot of doses of the emotional feedback.
> To be as polite as possible about her, her existence in the Abyss ran the table on what she could get out of physical relations in basically any way imaginable. The Abyss isn't a nice place. Emotional impact and emotional feeling is far more meaningful for her. That's something the Abyss is short on, save for hate, terror, loathing and destruction.
<Ithea> That line before your last sounds like the punchline to some bad joke.
> Yeah. I'm just trying not to be nasty about this. The Abyss is Hell, uppercase Hell. Pure evil goes there. The creatures there do things that would routinely sicken and horrify us because they are literally pure evil. You can imagine from there.
<Muirfinn> No room for love or kindness.
> Nope.
* Muirfinn nods.
> The Abyss destroys. Relationships in the Abyss ultimately lead to hate, destruction and misery.
<Muirfinn> So has she overloaded a few times from all the comraderie and friendship in Aurora? :3
> A relationship that avoids that and does other things is far more interesting to her. When she followed Talos to Limbo, her nature changed and she became better able to appreciate that aspect of things.
> Not quite, but it's interesting for her.
> Her best friend on Aurora is Ebony, as you may recall. She'd never touch her in a sexual way, even under the pain of death. It would ruin something far more interesting than physical acts to Canderella. I assume that if she feels the need to indulge in carnal acts, that she does it with people she's not particularly attached to or is interested in forming a long term relationship. Friends of anything beyond passing closeness are firmly out of that.

4. Hanna's children

<Ithea> How many kids in how many planes has Hanna had?
> It was mentioned at some point to Jaela. I'd have to log dive. I believe most or all were with mortals, but I could be wrong.
> She has a room for each of them, especially the ones that passed.
> Some ended up becoming full outsiders, some didn't.
> She's an outsider that's lived for an extremely long time. A lifetime with a mortal, even an elf, is barely a blink in that. She accepts that and knows that she can ensure that her lover's soul ends up going to Arborea. That's a win at the end, and she knows that most likely that lover won't ever remember her after. She tends to remember the children more intensely. She can deal with losing a lover better than a child.
> In retrospect, she really regrets leaving Jaela to grow up on her own. I wouldn't say she's lost Jaela forever - forever is a long time after all - but that relationship hit the rocks near the end.

5. 27 and Hanna

<Muirfinn> What's the deal with 27?
> He's a slaad who's connected to a slaad lord. You may as well ask sdkigjoiwgj;ewg;ewoigje and furthermore joiajsdiswogidsjgdis, because it makes as much sense as that question.
> More seriously?
<Ithea> Will Hanna ever prank 27?
> It sees -something- in Hanna in particular. It's possible Hanna may do something that greatly advances chaos, benefit 27 or maybe 27 just likes Hanna.

6. Ao, the Incarnations and related information

> Also, I posted a proxy template over on the rules and material board today. It probably won't be relevant to B3 (B1 was the game for that sort of thing), but worth mentioning.
> The main thing is that it's by far the simplest way to get DvR0. Of course it has drawbacks, but it is a thing.
> It's also the only method that may spare you from Ao being a tremendous dick, unless he really wants to be one.
<Ithea> What are the drawbacks besides falling out of favor for the proxy? Seems most of the drawbacks are on the deity.
> (If you wonder about how much of a dick Ao is, one thing settles it rather well: He's to blame for Shar.)
> They lose the template and the deity's most likely pissed off at them.
> What a pissed off deity does to a wayward worshiper of that stature...well...
<Ithea> Wasn't Ao responsible for the undead abomination babies?
<Ithea> That's enough for me to call him a dick.
> Yes. Also for Hunefer.
<Ithea> dunno what a Hunefer is
> Hunefer are what happen when Ao rejects a creature that seeks divinity. They are transformed into shambling quasi-undead horrors that forever seek divinity, mind broken husks that have no hope at all. Compare these to the Neverborn/Atropals.
> The mind of a hunefer is a broken, fragmented thing. The hunefer is forever lost in a maze of memories, fully immersed in dementia. These fragments focus on the creature's various failures and successes are remembered in a shattered way that turn them into failures. This loss of knowledge cripples them, they fail any Intelligence based skill checks. Likewise, a hunefer's failure renders any sort of social interaction impossible. A hunefer automatically fails any Charisma based skills checks.
> What little coherency a hunefer has is dedicated to finding the divine. It can only desire to find a deity and squeeze out the pure divinity denied to them, in a vain hope that they will be able to save themselves. This is what motivates a hunefer, yet it is all for naught. Should a hunefer come to within 10 miles of a deity, it is instantly plane shifted to another plane. This plane shifting bypasses all known defenses against dimensional travel. Even severing the astral links around the hunefer or the direct intervention of a deity fail to contain it. The hunefer feels a sense of indescribable loss when this happens as well as a renewed desperation to find a deity. The plane a hunefer is plane shifted to is random.
> Finally, a hunefer's wanderings cannot be stopped. Should a hunefer be imprisoned for more than one hour, it is automatically plane shifted as above.
> Neverborn as unborn deities that Ao rejects - when two deities reproduce and make a divine child. Hunefer are what happens when a rising mortal is rejected.
<Ithea> How's he to blame for Shar?
> Both are fates far worse than mere death. It's being condemned to a torment just for you, one that is literally impossible to ever escape, save if you are destroyed somehow.
> Back in B1, it came out that he's empowering her to be so strong and rising.
<Ithea> Ah
<Ithea> Surprised he didn't hunefer the B1 cast then!
> They had a workaround.
> The Arbiter, who appears to be something like Ao or at least able to deal with him on equal footing but is constrained by Ao, has them under his protection. It essentially protects them from Ao doing anything or even being aware of it.
> The B1 PCs were being set up to be the ones to finally confront Shar, stop her and perhaps even do something about Ao. If B1r ever happens, that's the plot of it.
<Ithea> Ah
> They're the only ones who realistically can, since other deities are known to Ao and he'll intervene if they get close to stopping Shar.
> This was referenced by Grandfather Time. He's one of the few aware of what's really happening and it's why he generally deflected any questions close to her or that when Ithea and company asked.
> So the upshot? Ao's a tremendous dick.
<Ithea> Clearly whomever put him in charge of that reality is an even bigger dick! =p
> [00:04] <Kotono> "Ao? Ah, I see. The Incarnation of Chaos. What of Balance and Law?" He asks, "Perhaps he is the only one remembered. I know that they were ever distant, even in the days where they attempted to understand Good and Evil."
> It was mentioned by the Guardian of 21 that he's the Incarnation of Chaos, one of the Three Incarnations that created Creation. If the Arbiter is another Incarnation or something else isn't known.
> The Guardian's discussions go into the matters of the Incarnations and by extension Ao more than anything else in B3, and perhaps any other discussion in the games so far.
<Muirfinn> What ever happened to the incarnation of balance anyhow?
> It's a mystery. The fate of the Incarnation of Balance and the Incarnation of Law isn't known.
> It's possible the Arbiter is one of those two or something else entirely.
> From Kascha's Q&A with the Guardian of 21.
> 16. Where did the Incarnations come from: That question has no meaning to Them, origins are for creatures with limitations.
> 17. Well, if they didn't come from here, does that mean they came from somewhere else? Another Creation: It may be so, I was created to deal with one part of this Creation.
> 18. Does that mean its possible: Yes, it is.
> 19. Are the Three why the number 3 recurs in meaningful ways: An echo of the simple fact of the Three.
> 20. What about the other numbers: All the others are closer to mortal concepts, but not quite.
> 21. But aren't they related to the Outer Planes: Ah, anything that is limited is a mortal in my thoughts. The definitions you assign between limited creatures are irrelevant.
> 22. Can you tell me if there are others besides the Three: Of course I can.
> 23. Are there: That is not a question I will answer.
> 24. Why not?!: Because the answer is both forbidden and meaningless to you.
> That's the closest to finding something out about that anyone's come, and the Guardian stonewalled.
> As far as Ao goes, the most is known about him of any of the Incarnations. He's called the Endless Chaos and may well be a Lovecraftian Horror akin to Azathoth. How that reflects on the other Incarnations isn't known as well - they may be like him or different, as he represents chaos and they represent balance and law, respectively.

7. This says a lot about Merc and Yuth's priorities, eh?

<Ithea> One more question: Do the goddesses ever have a beauty paegant where they strut out in bikinis? And if so, who won the last one?
<Muirfinn> Ithea's question is the most important in the history of questions.
> They don't. The goddesses of love and beauty (Sune, Sharess, sort of Lliira, Waukeen's with them but that's really not her thing) might, but not the others.
> Oh, Hanali Celanil of the Seladrin is a member of sorts too, even if she's not in Brightwater.
<Ithea> Alas.
<Ithea> They should clearly have had a Miss Brightwater contest every year.
<Muirfinn> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Assuming those four (or even 5 if Waukeen's unusually adventurous), it's probably Sune>Sharess>the other threes being a tossup. Beauty is in Sune's portfolio, and Sharess touches on that too. The others are nice, but it's not their thing. Hanali Celanil's sold short here in retrospect, so it's probably closer to Sune>Sharess=Hanali>the other two.
> Considering they can all change shape as a trivial effort of divine will, it's something of a matter of taste.
<Muirfinn> Those would be some ballsy judges though.
<Muirfinn> "This reality editor is not as pretty as this other reality editor. Let's go tell them that to their faces."

[Anastasia]

Hurray giant gibbering mouther god!

Just imagine: You have to pick a fight with that one day.

[Yuthirin]

Like when I'm level 40 or find some way to get DvR0