Random DM nagging.

[Nephrite]

<Kotono> Merc, is song of fortune supposed to be a circumstance or a competence bonus? You aren't consistent.
<Kotono> I usually aim for consistency with formatting more than anything else.
<Kotono> So since they're already like that, the occasional bleed in just rolls with it.
<Kotono> With how finicky parts of 3.5 can be, being consistent's important.
<Kotono> Anyway, Neph'n'Merc: The bones are fine. Most of the adjustments are typos and consistency things (song of fortune, above).
<Harley> Yeah, that was my bad. I'd initially made it circumstance, but when I was tying theme together, I realized it was more of a competence bonus, improvement of the improved competence ability which is why that became a prereq
<Harley> So it should be competence
<Kotono> I'd probably not use a circumstance bonus and just turn it to an untyped bonus. Those are meant to be situtational and cover a bonus that no other quite gets.
* Kotono nods.
* Iddy is now known as Rhaqa
<Harley> Untyped or competence is what I was shooting for near the end.
<Harley> I think competence makes perfect sense though. It's absolutely an improvement on inspire competence, from a +2 bonus to +5.
<Harley> The only reason to make it untyped is so that it would stack
* Kotono nods.
<Harley> That said, inspire competence is +2 to all within 30ft, song of fortune is +5 to a specific target (with improvements) within 30ft. So it doesn't just overwrite competence
<Kotono> You could just make it an ability that upgrades inspire competence. Whatever.
<Harley> And I think it's fine to make it same type bonus
* Kotono nods.
<Harley> Based on your reasoning, Destined Strike -should- be untyped though. That one wouldn't be very good to have as competence bonus since so many things give competence bonuses there.
<Harley> And I have it as a circumstance bonus right now which you noted doesn't really fit with abilities but more situational things.
<Fieri> http://www.theage.com.au/world/man-drowns-himself-using-murdered-wifes-head-police-20160105-gm04w8.html
<Fieri> what the fuck
<Harley> Given the focus on destiny/fate, insight really might have made the most sense for the bonuses' type, but I think competence for song of fortune and untyped for destined strike gives the better mechanical balance.
<Kotono> That's fine.


It looks like most of the bonuses just needed to be shifted to untyped ones. I'll sort that out as I go along.

[Anastasia]

For the purpose of Hidden Dawn, what CR was the unbeatable archangel of light?

20. Not his real CR, but he wasn't fighting you all out nor was there any realistic chance of beating him. The CR of the encounter was also deflated due to the fact he used abilities more specialized in massive area of effect than power. His dispel+blindness and his 40d6 light fire wave can go up to a continent in range when needed.

The challenge was 'can you survive 7 rounds of being blasted full out', with the possibility of the battle ending sooner through discussion or managing to deal real, serious damage to him.

Lore time: Salandriel is similar to the Angel of Last Resort, though Salandriel's stronger. There's several reasons for this, mostly related to the personalities involved. Salandriel's also far more independent, while the Angel of Last Resort is wholeheartedly a servant of Queen Morwel. For reference, I'd put a proper Angel of Last Resort encounter at CR 40. There's a ton of buildup to it and a lot of theatrics* leading to a grand final encounter where judgment is passed.

So Salandriel is at least CR 41 if you fought him in a serious battle.

*One of the reasons he's weaker. Morwel makes a production out of it. That Mysticism domain, y'know?

[Anastasia]

<Kotono> Merc, is song of fortune supposed to be a circumstance or a competence bonus? You aren't consistent.
<Kotono> I usually aim for consistency with formatting more than anything else.
<Kotono> So since they're already like that, the occasional bleed in just rolls with it.
<Kotono> With how finicky parts of 3.5 can be, being consistent's important.
<Kotono> Anyway, Neph'n'Merc: The bones are fine. Most of the adjustments are typos and consistency things (song of fortune, above).
<Harley> Yeah, that was my bad. I'd initially made it circumstance, but when I was tying theme together, I realized it was more of a competence bonus, improvement of the improved competence ability which is why that became a prereq
<Harley> So it should be competence
<Kotono> I'd probably not use a circumstance bonus and just turn it to an untyped bonus. Those are meant to be situtational and cover a bonus that no other quite gets.
* Kotono nods.
* Iddy is now known as Rhaqa
<Harley> Untyped or competence is what I was shooting for near the end.
<Harley> I think competence makes perfect sense though. It's absolutely an improvement on inspire competence, from a +2 bonus to +5.
<Harley> The only reason to make it untyped is so that it would stack
* Kotono nods.
<Harley> That said, inspire competence is +2 to all within 30ft, song of fortune is +5 to a specific target (with improvements) within 30ft. So it doesn't just overwrite competence
<Kotono> You could just make it an ability that upgrades inspire competence. Whatever.
<Harley> And I think it's fine to make it same type bonus
* Kotono nods.
<Harley> Based on your reasoning, Destined Strike -should- be untyped though. That one wouldn't be very good to have as competence bonus since so many things give competence bonuses there.
<Harley> And I have it as a circumstance bonus right now which you noted doesn't really fit with abilities but more situational things.
<Fieri> http://www.theage.com.au/world/man-drowns-himself-using-murdered-wifes-head-police-20160105-gm04w8.html
<Fieri> what the fuck
<Harley> Given the focus on destiny/fate, insight really might have made the most sense for the bonuses' type, but I think competence for song of fortune and untyped for destined strike gives the better mechanical balance.
<Kotono> That's fine.


It looks like most of the bonuses just needed to be shifted to untyped ones. I'll sort that out as I go along.

That's fine, we'll work it out as needed.

[Anastasia]

For Neph. This never got polished but it's a start. It's raw and still has notes attached.

Things bard casting does

- Sonic effects in general, music thematics
- Summon monster spells, new one each level at 1-1 progression.
- Cure spells (but not heal until 7th).

Decide on wish/limited wish, note.
-
Books: SRD, SC, paused there on 7th, CM, BoED, BoVD (9th only, likely),

TODO: Lords of madness fix and check.

Paused at level 11 and the Faerinaal spells.

7th: Brain Spider^SC, Dream Casting^SC, Eladrin Form^BoED, Greater Shadow Conjuration, Heal, Hiss of Sleep^SC, Insanity, Instant Summons, Mage's Magnificent Mansion, Mass Cure Serious Wounds, Mass Hold Person, Mass Invisibility, Phase Door, Probe Thoughts^SC, Sequester, Simulacrum, Solipsism^SC, Summon Monster 7, Symbol of Fear, Symbol of Persuasion, Transfix^SC, True Seeing, Vision,
8th: Greater Shadow Evocation, Lion's Roar^SC, Maddening Whispers^SC, Mass Cure Critical Wounds, Regenerate, Scintillating Pattern, Screen, Shifting Paths^SC, Spread of Contentment^BoED, Summon Monster 8, Superior Invisibility^SC
9th: Dominate Monster, End to Strife^BoED, Foresight, Magic Disjunction, Mass Hold Monster, Programmed Amnesia^SC, Reaving Dispel^SC, Shades, Sublime Revelry^BoED, Summon Monster 9, Unbinding^SC
10th: Mass Heal, Miracle of Uncursing^Home, Summon Monster 10^Home
11th: Faerinaal's Internal Revolt^Home, Faerinaal's Lullaby^Home, Purr of Sharess^Home, Superb Dispelling^Home
12th: Beauty Triumphant^Home, Glorious Rally^Home, Mass Regenerate^Home, Thunderous Voice^Home
13th:

4 per day max, 4 known.

Spells Known



   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   

Level	7th	8th	9th	10th	11th	12th	13th
21	1	-	-	-	-	-	-
22	2	-	-	-	-	-	-
23	3	-	-	-	-	-	-
24	4	1	-	-	-	-	-
25	4	2	-	-	-	-	-
26	4	3	-	-	-	-	-
27	4	4	1	-	-	-	-
28	4	4	2	-	-	-	-
29	4	4	3	-	-	-	-
30	4	4	4	1	-	-	-
31	4	4	4	2	-	-	-
32	4	4	4	3	-	-	-
33	4	4	4	4	1	-	-
34	4	4	4	4	2	-	-
35	4	4	4	4	3	-	-
36	4	4	4	4	4	1	-
37	4	4	4	4	4	2	-
38	4	4	4	4	4	3	-
39	4	4	4	4	4	4	1

Spells per Day



   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   

Level	7th	8th	9th	10th	11th	12th	13th
21	0	-	-	-	-	-	-
22	1	-	-	-	-	-	-
23	2	-	-	-	-	-	-
24	3	0	-	-	-	-	-
25	4	1	-	-	-	-	-
26	4	2	-	-	-	-	-
27	4	3	0	-	-	-	-
28	4	4	1	-	-	-	-
29	4	4	2	-	-	-	-
30	4	4	3	0	-	-	-
31	4	4	4	1	-	-	-
32	4	4	4	2	-	-	-
33	4	4	4	3	0	-	-
34	4	4	4	4	1	-	-
35	4	4	4	4	2	-	-
36	4	4	4	4	3	0	-
37	4	4	4	4	4	1	-
38	4	4	4	4	4	2	-
39	4	4	4	4	4	3	0

[Nephrite]

If a character has Arcane Disciple, can they pick the domain spells for their epic level spells?

[Anastasia]

Domain spells for epic are largely incomplete. If there isn't one for it (ask me which domain it is and I can do a very quick search by editing the spell list), we can make one. If you're a prepared caster, you can sub in a lower level domain spell, but that's not an option for you. What domain is it?

[Nephrite]

I was thinking Fate made the most sense.

[Nephrite]

Also, are there any epic feats that affect Bardic music or Words of Creation?

EDIT: Actually, I see one, Epic Inspiration, but it's a 3.0 feat. Could it be repurposed into a 3.5 one?

EDIT2: Do the songs that specify you can add a person per 3 levels still increase past 20? For example, can I use Inspire Heroics on 3 people? (15, 18, then 21)

[Anastasia]

None for words of creation, it didn't get epic support.

Bardic music has some in the SRD's Epic section. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/classProgressions.htm#epicBard Epic bard's bonus feat list covers them.

[Nephrite]

So Epic Inspiration is basically just an Epic version of Song of the Heart?

Would it be fair to have it affect the same (additional) abilities that Song of the Heart does, such as Haunting Melody?

[Anastasia]

So Epic Inspiration is basically just an Epic version of Song of the Heart?

Would it be fair to have it affect the same (additional) abilities that Song of the Heart does, such as Haunting Melody?

How does Song of the Heart boost Haunting Melody?

[Nephrite]

It increases the DC by 1.

[Anastasia]

I'm going to rule no, as that's explicitly noted extra text in Song of the Heart.

[Nephrite]

That's fine. So Epic Inspiration increases things by 1 the same way Song of the Heart does, just sans any of the extra stuff. I assume it is still doubled by Words of Creation?

Also, it got buried in my endless edits, but do the songs that specify you can add a person per 3 levels still increase past 20? For example, can I use Inspire Heroics on 3 people? (15, 18, then 21)

[Anastasia]

Generally yes, though check if uncertain.