Ideas Thread

[Brian]

Bit on the squicky side for this one. If it wasn't something that had existed for 3+ years it might have some mileage, but at this point you're now talking about two separate girls that have developed in different ways, both with their own families, etc. Unless Kyon's somehow going back to the point of the original split and trying to take care of it before things develop too much, which could be interesting in its own way - getting to see Sasaki and Haruhi in elementary school, presumably before they go through a lot of the stuff that develops their separate personalities to the point they've reached in the novels.

I hadn't crafted any coherent scenario around that idea because it was one of the loonier ones anyway, but I kind of assumed that the re-joining would happen in present time, and all memories would be conserved (as happens to Kyon(s) in book 11).

In any case, I think that there's more to Sasaki than we've been told at this point, so any speculation about her significance to the greater scheme of things is interesting.

I think the squick is going to be relative to the handling of the idea.  If you portray Haruhi (and also Sasaki) as two halves of a complete person, and assume that the gestalt is mutual on both their parts (which seems reasonable, if they were originally a single entity, anyway).

It would be a slightly different representation of Haruhi and Sasaki (I think) than normal.  Considering we never see Haruhi's parents onscreen, they could be imaginary -- though, this does raise questions from the perspective of the IDSE, and so on.  Then again ... if something happened that caused Haruhi/Sasaki to split in the first place, it does somewhat fit with Sasaki's perspective of Haruhi (that she admired her, but never managed to speak to herself; Sasaki is the more reserved half, and kind of wishes she could go back to how she used to be when she and Haruhi were the same person).

The question then is what do the two halves have/lack from one-another that they need to gestalt, and how does Kyon figure in (if he does)?  It seems that both Haruhi and Sasaki are attracted to him, even if in different ways....  There's also the question of what actually prompts/justifies the merging.  Are they just doing it because of some past recognition of what they used to be, and 'it's time'?  Is it in response to some threat that only a united being can handle?  Are they deteriorating from holding the two halves of their reality warping power separate for too long?

I guess there's actually quite a few possibilities; I'd just hope it was portrayed as a positive thing.

Though, a merged Haruhi/Sasaki would be an ... interesting character in general.  Hmm.

* Brian is inexplicably gapped back into working on Sympathy.

The reason why I'm putting up these kind of crazy ideas is actually to de-incentivize myself from working on them because I'm trying to set a more ambitious, 'serious' project in motion (more about that once I have something to show).

That's pretty much my reason for tossing out the Kyoniism idea (though I'm hoping to complete something a bit shorter), so I understand completely! :p

[Muphrid]

This is tough stuff.  I definitely see the appeal and possibilities of looking at Haruhi and Sasaki as two halves of a complete being, but it also forces one to throw out a lot of the significance of what's been written and experienced so far.  What does Haruhi's character growth matter if in the end, the right place for her is reunited with Sasaki?

I guess that's just shifting the question.  If this composite being still has some of Haruhi's signature traits (and flaws and attitudes), is that enough to stitch it all together?  I guess that all goes back to why they would be split in the first place.  What purpose could that have served?  Did it protect the world in some way, or did it protect the original entity from herself?

[Brian]

Throwing out an incredibly stupid idea I'm trying to get out of my head:

Erm.  I got this from Angust MacSpon's The Replacement Ranma's (which actually also inspired Shuffle, so).  I think the entire thing came out of one scene, so not only is this idea stupid, it's poorly formed and hugely incomplete.

But it also won't leave my head.

Okay, here's the premise:  Ragnarok rolls around, and Odin comes out of where he's been studying, all ready to lead the battle.

Problem: He's been away too long, so human faith can't sustain his pantheon.  He's okay, himself, and Loki's out there with the Jotun (what a jerk), but all Odin gets as a guide is Vidarr (the Silent God).  This interpretation of Vidarr would have kept current with modern technology, leading to the very first joke: "Texting, eh?  I liked you more when you didn't communicate at all."

Anyway.  Vidarr then explains (in an annoyingly internet-short-hand-ridden dialog chock full of references and '1337' speak.  With the war coming, Odin has to pick new forms for the rest of his pantheon that resonate with current cultural awareness.

Meaning, either he can see his friends and those who he knows twisted into whatever weird video game versions of them are around, or let them go and make new.

He goes with 'new'.

First up, he needs Valkyrie, so Vidarr suggests Madoka.  (Yes, from PMMM.  Bear with me.)  Madokami is the Valkyrie, and all of her Einheriar are magical girls (all of them!  She summons different ones (almost) whenever required).  You want fire?  There's sailor mars/(whatever other fire-themed magical girls there are -- must be hundreds), etc. etc. etc.  Basically, her Unlimited Hope Works + Valkyrie Profile mechanics for maximum fun.  ("Come to me, my einheriar!")

I hadn't mapped out most of the rest of the fusions (or even found very good candidates).  I'm highly tempted to put Kyon in as Baldr, and Haruhi as Hel (that'll cause problems later).  That's about as far as I got and where everything falls apart.

Now maybe I can forget about this and focus more on other things.

[Jason_Miao]

Oh hey, way back in earlier pages, there were responses to my post (which I didn't see, since I don't usually follow idea threads).  I'll probably
go respond once it's not End of FY11/drinking merlot.

Okay, here's the premise:  Ragnarok rolls around, and Odin comes out of where he's been studying, all ready to lead the battle.

Problem: He's been away too long, so human faith can't sustain his pantheon.  He's okay, himself, and Loki's out there with the Jotun (what a jerk), but all Odin gets as a guide is Vidarr (the Silent God). 

What ever happened to his massive army of warriors, who'd died heroically, that he'd been carefully building up?  If you want your God mechanics to rely on faith, that's fairly conventional, but he also had a large army of humans (who, I think, were fated to die again in Ragnarok).  That would be like saying that everyone forgot about God for a day, and everyone who had died and went to heaven subsequently evaporated.

Also, if you haven't already read it and like Douglas Adams, you might check out Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency, which has a page or two on Thor living in the modern day.

Meaning, either he can see his friends and those who he knows twisted into whatever weird video game versions of them are around,

Or the comic-book/movie.  Or bad jokes ('I'm tho Thor I can't even thit up').  Frigg lives on through invective ("What, I failed 8th grade history?  Aw, Frig!")

Why does Odin get to pick?  He wasn't The Head of the Gods;  He was A Head of Some Gods.  There were also the Vanir.  The Norns, in some views, controlled the fates of the gods as well as man (and if I'd seen more AMS, I'd probably write several fics about that.  I've had the idea of Norse Verthandi having to be Keiichi's girlfriend, for whatever contrived reason, for longer than this forum has likely existed).  Etc...

First up, he needs Valkyrie,

Why?  IIRC, those mainly gathered the dead (Chooser of the Slain) and picked out who gets to feast until Ragnarok.  If Loki is already on the doorstep, it's a bit late to start doing that again.  Also, if his last army disappeared while he was off studying, what makes him think the next would be better?

I'm highly tempted to put Kyon in as Baldr,

He's allergic to mistletoe?

and Haruhi as Hel (that'll cause problems later). 

Hel was one of Loki's kids.  I don't remember if she was properly on either side.  She wasn't really for or against the Aesir (she did offer Baldur back, if the world wept for him).  I suppose you could spin it, since Odin did originally give her authority to administer those who didn't die in heroic battle, but why is she gone and her siblings (the wolf and serpent) still around?  And if they're not around, then Loki has also lost key players in Ragnarok, and I presume that wasn't what you intended.

[Brian]

If those questions had good answers, I wouldn't have complained several times that my idea was half-formed and otherwise bad. >.>

[Halbarad]

It does get some weird VP/Madoka fusion vibes going in my head, though. Homura as Lezard.

[Jason_Miao]

If those questions had good answers, I wouldn't have complained several times that my idea was half-formed and otherwise bad. >.>

Okay...well, would you mind a slight modification to the premise?

The old gods, being godly, do not die of age or infirmity.  However, they get bored, and after centuries, they drifted from their duties.  The Norns haven't actually abandoned their posts, they are merely taking a vacation (Verthandi decided she was going to shack up with a mortal and get laid for a century or two).   But even then, they collectively deputized Haruhi to work in their stead (without her knowledge, but that's generally how destiny works with mortals, and Haruhi can fill the duties of her job regardless).

Most of the Gods didn't deputize anyone.  They just walked off the job.   Through his studies, Odin realizes that this will have dire consequences on the universe, so he has to (1) run around and find people to fill the various positions (2) find the Gods, who are living their lives as movie stars, high powered attorneys, traveling folk singers, construction works, etc, and shake them down for their powers.  Some are pretty apathetic about it, others rely upon their powers and do not want them diminished in the slightest, so will fight to keep them.

So that at least partially explains why Odin is appointing his enemies, or those who were originally doomed to bring about his downfall.  This also means you'd have to have him find replacements for all his enemies as well, Loki included.

The Norns point to Haruhi, first, as someone who can help Odin plan and who'd give him insight into the modern world.  This means she's one of the initial cadre, which means you get to use your experience in writing Haruhi-fics to good use (since you'll be writing a lot of Haruhi), and gives a somewhat plausible excuse as to why she's running Hel - because it's pretty damn hard finding Hel, herself, and someone needs to run one of the worlds at least part time.


So, the basic setting is a reverse monster-of-the-week scenario, but instead, it's a scenario where Odin and the posse work together to recruit mortals and to shake down immortals.  Obviously, you're going to have to work in a twist to change Ragnarok, because otherwise the teams, which probably formed bonds of friendship and maybe romance, is going to kill each other, but the framework seems vaguely plausible to get something started.  Also, an obvious tie in to AMS if you want, although I wouldn't rely on it too much since I'm not sure how you could explain away all the other gods/demons that visit.

[Brian]

Okay...well, would you mind a slight modification to the premise?

Well, I was mostly throwing the idea out there to see if anyone had any better ideas sparked from it -- and it looks like you've got that. :p

I was throwing Haruhi in for personal preference; the big thing that I thought would be funny was Madoka as Valkyrie -- I should have been more clear that it was specifically Lenneth, from VP, not the proper mythological one I was comparing her to.  That one wanders around farming up 'heroes' and....  Yeah.

Madoka: "Nibelung valesti!"

That's, uh ... kinda ... all I had. :p

Your idea sounds more interesting, putting a (if we wanted to spin it that way) American Gods feel.

Using Haruhi as the guide would be amusing, but actually probably a pretty bad idea at first, since she'd aim for maximum fun, not maximum helpfulness.  Played for comedy, we could go that route, but there's no reason to lock anything in on my account, considering I don't plan on writing it -- but sometimes it's fun to poke at ideas.

[Arakawa]

Using Haruhi as the guide would be amusing, but actually probably a pretty bad idea at first, since she'd aim for maximum fun, not maximum helpfulness.  Played for comedy, we could go that route, but there's no reason to lock anything in on my account, considering I don't plan on writing it -- but sometimes it's fun to poke at ideas.

There's also the problem of needing to either obnoxiously retcon or just ignore/obliterate vital elements of Haruhi canon to make it work. The IDSE and time travellers are automatically sidelined (it's just too annoying to have to explain why they're studying Haruhi when there's dozens of other gods that have been running amok in various ways throughout history). What do closed spaces have to do with Hel? Haruhi got her powers at... a baseball game in Japan? (There could be an amusing explanation behind that last one, possibly.)

Still, it does make it reasonable to add Kyon to the pantheon if Haruhi is there. The guy did spend quite some time dealing with the major headache of her powers running amok. (And Odin sees them as being in a functioning romantic relationship for whatever reason, which makes it even more reasonable in his books. He is extremely annoyed to later find that they're actually in a weird mutual-pseudo-tsundere-love-hate thing.)

I don't know, this fic idea is... too damn large. We have Madoka being recruited to spawn endless amounts of magical girls (how does that work anyways, is it merely an ordinary girl named Madoka with the right mythic resonance to some magical girl show identical to our universe's 'Madoka Magica' but where the protagonist has a different name, or do we have to contemplate the actual existence of the IDSE and Incubator working completely in parallel on the same Earth?), Haruhi and Kyon getting godd'ed, a bunch of other supposed anime crossovers... that's even before we get to the question of what is supposed to happen to these characters.

(What happens to them is that this is an extremely complicated and dysfunctional pantheon, and Odin has to figure out how to keep it from imploding.)

If I were actually writing something based on this idea, it'd go something like:

Prologue: Odin discovers he needs to rebuild the Norse pantheon from the ground up.
(However, he is comically out of touch with modern society and insert consequences in the following fics.)

Some completely separate fic idea involving Madoka.
(Madoka has major issues, and though theoretically capable of explaining the modern world to Odin, he opts to not even bother)

Some completely separate fic idea involving Haruhi, roughly as follows:

• Comedy of errors: Odin gets pointed to Haruhi as someone who should be familiar with both being a god and living in the modern world. He discovers that's... not quite true (she has no clue she's supposed to be a goddess). Odin's trying to figure the situation out. Maybe he makes incognito inquiries of the rest of the Brigade (they're supremely unhelpful). Maybe he observes Kyon and Haruhi's day to day interactions and makes incorrect assumptions about their relationship. (Maybe due to some unrelated consequence where they end up, unusually enough, in a restaurant talking civilly.) This idea... needs a lot of work, doesn't it?
• Huge freakout by the Haruhi factions due to further poor communication about what's just happened (ennh... actually, I'm kind of writing a fic based on that idea already). Which is further complicated by the appearance of Madoka with her ability to spam magical girls.

Arrested Development is playing in the other room right now, ehm, what if we structured this fic like... great, we're totally cooking like Akane here, aren't we?

I don't know, personally my only hope of tackling a project that size would be to adopt the "text-format 4koma" route.

[Brian]

Erm.  That's taking it much more seriously than I thought.  Even the most 'straight' example would still be comedy....

Anyway.  The image in my mind was Odin going around and replacing/recruiting as required, and growing increasingly bewildered about what he ends up getting.  To justify various crossover elements, none of the characters from other fandoms are real -- they're imaginary.

But, going back to the faith idea (Miao came up with something more interesting -- this is just going over the origins of the idea) ... the reason Odin's getting anime characters isn't because they're good choices.  It's because there are thousands of rabid fans out there that give those characters worship and adulation.  Thus sidestepping all of the backstory complications.

I think the only concrete 'scenes' I had other than Madoka showing up and summoning the required magical girl any time there was a situation requiring magical girls (seriously, she's got multiple time magical girls, thanks to Homura and Setsuna!  :p) were Odin deciding to pick up a number of tacticians to guide the battle and picking up Lelouch and Togame (from Katanagari).  Both of those characters are brilliant strategists with an eye that tends to look kinda freaky when they get super-manipulative -- Odin would have actually picked them up intentionally instead of just them being 'what he got' because he liked the eye thing.

The way Haruhi gets worked in is (in this setting) is that Kyon has to mediate between Lelouch and Togame (Kyon could be Baldr, or Odin just could have been going for a competent strategist who can deal with crazy/empowered people and gotten him due to that.)  After that, it comes up that the next goddess listed to be replaced is Hel, and after Kyon hears the other alternatives (being much more genre savy and anime-aware than anyone else present) would have suggested her as the least possible evil choice. >.>

So, yeah.  :p


Edit:  I would expect that if this were written, short, concise scenes that imply with broad strokes instead of the genuinely sprawling epic that this story would be pretending to be.  In other words, most of the time a character is introduced is probably the most screen-time they get, except for the viewpoint characters (Odin, whoever's helping him (Hyugin and Munin?  Or are they the two catgirl/boy characters from Utawaruremono now?)) and whoever happens to be most funny (Madoka would probably make at least a cameo any time a magical girl character could be provided for a good joke).

[Jason_Miao]

Madoka: "Nibelung valesti!"

That's, uh ... kinda ... all I had. :p

To be fair, I had the idea of:

Madoka: Hojotoho heiaha.

As in, that would be 3/4 of her lines. :)

Also, if you're talking about post-PMMM Madoka, she

Spoiler: ShowHide

no longer technically exists, since you have to be part of the universe to exist

, so that's hard to case well.  In-series Madoka could work, but you know, there was someone else in that series who was pretty good at recruiting people.  An excellent, historically-verifiable, effective recruiter.  And given the greater good of the universe, that recruiter might be persuaded to join up with Odin as a logical step.

And I just realized, this is a variant of my Impression story background that is one level above what I'd considered: the End Times being fought by armies of heroic magical girls.

Your idea sounds more interesting, putting a (if we wanted to spin it that way) American Gods feel.

I've never read that book.  Worth reading?

I was basing the concept from a side-story-but-not-really setting from a mystery/romance, reversed the some considerations that Jon and I chatted about last night regarding setting up a monster of the week scenario for a fic he's writing.  It was a nice break from me writing outtakes from my La Blue Girl/Ranma semi-fusion that I'm just writing out, so I'll stop thinking about it (because the idea is, fundamentally, terrible - I may post those parts in this thread later on, since I don't think it really rises above the level of a fic idea).

Using Haruhi as the guide would be amusing, but actually probably a pretty bad idea at first, since she'd aim for maximum fun, not maximum helpfulness. 

And therein lines your story.  Or substory, if you want, but tossing in a Haruhi-based bildungsroman while she has tact permission from the leader of the Aesir to shake down the gods for cand^H^H^H^Htheir powers?  Why not?

The IDSE and time travellers are automatically sidelined (it's just too annoying to have to explain why they're studying Haruhi when there's dozens of other gods that have been running amok in various ways throughout history).

There are gods, and there are Gods.  Viewed one way (and, IIRC, Norse mythology is handed down and the little of what we do know if it was recorded in writing only after Christianity had gotten into the country and was largely successful at converting people, so viewpoints are all we have), the Norns represented control of the destiny of man and gods.  That's why I proposed casting Haruhi as the deputy of the Norns - because she's essentially omnipotent, she's a hell of a lot more powerful than Odin.  Odin rules the gods.  The Norns (and Haruhi) rules the universe.

Why did the IDSE and the Time Travelers ignore the gods running around?  Because they're merely gods, and yes, this includes Odin.

Closed spaces?  That's easy (assuming the explanation Koizumi's explanation in the early light novels is fully correct, because if there was a later reveal, I never read that far).  Odin is trying to prevent the destruction of the universe.  Which, if you think about it, is Haruhi's practical limitation once someone tells her about it so she actively quits trying to destroy the universe.  As an analogy, you have the power to cut your own throat, but you are limited (hopefully!) by the practical consideration that you don't want to die.


re: Baldr: IIRC, his main feature was that everyone loved the guy.  Kyon would be great at this.
Difficulty: Baldr is essentially stuck as dead because one frost giant wouldn't weep for him.  This severely limits Kyon's ability to affect the story.
Solution: Subarc where Asakura (or whomever the alternate IDSE interface was.) gets cast for that particular frost giant, they track down that frost giant, take the frost giant's powers, then Yuki spanks Asakura until she agrees to cry for Kyon.
Aftermath: So she does this, then, at some later point, tries to stab him with mistletoe.

[Brian]

re: Baldr: IIRC, his main feature was that everyone loved the guy.  Kyon would be great at this.

Yes.  There was a story about even Hel falling in love with him.  Of course, Baldr had a wife (Nanna, naturally analogous to Sasaki) already before he met Hel (Haruhi), so....

Difficulty: Baldr is essentially stuck as dead because one frost giant wouldn't weep for him.  This severely limits Kyon's ability to affect the story.

Well, yes, but Baldr's death kicks off Ragnarok, and he's supposed to be one of the ones reborn into the new world after that's all over.  Could spin it that they're going to try and kill Kyon to start the end of the world ("Damn it, Haruhi, what have you gotten me into now!?"), though.  In fact, maybe that's why Yuki stopped Ryouko....

Solution: Subarc where Asakura (or whomever the alternate IDSE interface was.) gets cast for that particular frost giant, they track down that frost giant, take the frost giant's powers, then Yuki spanks Asakura until she agrees to cry for Kyon.
Aftermath: So she does this, then, at some later point, tries to stab him with mistletoe.

Bwa-hahaha!

Ahe, ha....  Oh, man....  That's especially great since Pokk was actually Loki in disguise!

Bonus points if it's snowing and Haruhi turns it into a Christmas scene, not understanding that all she's really done is instilled a secondary fear of mistletoe into him.

Edit: And yeah, I enjoyed American Gods quite a bit.  I ... really need to read my years-old copy of Ananasi Boys. >_<

[thepanda]

You guys are making this idea more complicated than necessary. The IDSE only took an interest in Earth because Haruhi invited their attention. There is no reason to believe the IDSE isn't observing more of Earth than just the bit around Haruhi. We've seen that it isn't all powerful and there are places it cannot get into (like the closed space when Haruhi almost remade the world in Melancholy). It is powerful, but so are the gods. And they've been around Earth and its adjacent universes/pocket dimensions a lot longer than it has.

And that's assuming they care enough about the IDSE to acknowledge it.

Couldn't you just see one of the IDSE factions trying to pull a Ryouko on the wrong god and getting killed so hard its data is destroyed? It would only take one such incident to make the data entities pull back to a safe distance.

[Jason_Miao]

<Iddy> Your brain frightens me.  -After describing fundamental premise to Iddy to get an opinion of applicable force organizations.


The fic idea I was mentioned in an earlier post.  I just wrote down some scenes, some really rough dialogue, and outlined a few character arcs.  I said I'd post it once I managed to get it unstuck from my head, and I think I have, so here it is in case someone finds it interesting (although I rather suspect the word "disturbing" rather than "interesting" will be the word favored).

I don't actually have any plans to actively write it, since it has no real overarching plot.  So anyone who wants to write it, rewrite it, or lift out sections wholesale and adapt for their own nefarious purposes is welcome to do so - just throw in a link to this post, so if anyone attacks you with pitchforks, you can appropriately pass the blame.

No lemon, but this is certainly lime.  Also, no proof reading, so expect bad spelling, incomplete lines, and weird grammatical constructions.

It is powerful, but so are the gods.

I don't recall most Norse gods to be comparable to what the entities can do.  While I haven't read the novels, someone seems to have posted some Haruhi eps on Youtube, so I skimmed those really quickly.  It appears that the entity interfaces can at least resurrect themselves, perform mental control on hostiles, and create life.  Sure, the gods, collectively, could do those, but I don't think that most of the gods could do all of those.

[thepanda]

Haruhi-chan doesn't count!