Lucid Dream discussion thread

[Music-chan]

I had an interesting bit of lucidity the other day in a dream.  I don't remember what was going on in the dream, but I looked down in it and realized I was wearing a white t-shirt with cream-coloured shorts.  For some reason, I freaked out about it in the dream, then said "Oh, it's all right. It's not real; I can change!"  And then I was wearing jeans and proceeded to dream a little while longer before I woke up.

Amused me at the time.

[Brian]

I am getting better at dream recall.  I think I had multiple dreams last night, but evidently my mind puts them in a framing device, so it feels a bit like one dream with constant changes in focus.

Without going into too much detail, last night's dream(s?) had me as a technician, then I went to watch a presentation, which turned into the next dream before I went back to the original role, and overheard some people discussing a movie they had seen, which became another dream.

Strange.

[Brian]

I had a lucid dream last night (which was especially awesome, because I had decided that I was going to go from dream recall to attempting lucidity).  I think you can experience different levels of lucid dreaming, or else just retain particular awareness as you enter the dreaming state.

Basically....  I was dreaming I was trying to get to sleep, but having trouble actually falling asleep (fairly common for me as an insomniac), and then it feels like I transitioned straight from trying to doze off into a dream ... maybe just a daydream?  However, my landlord had been replaced by Wendy Oldbag (from the Phoenix Wright games), which was really lousy, and she came in my room to badger me about something.

That managed to totally overshoot my 'this isn't real' radar for a bit.  I can't remember what the trigger was, as I've been particularly bad about practicing my reality checks, but I realized I was asleep and tried my chosen reality check (trying to breathe in through my mouth while it's closed).  Interestingly, in the dream nothing happened, but I was aware of (and could feel) my actual body and the one in the dream simultaneously.  I guess this ties in with what Arakawa mentioned about sleep paralysis?

I didn't manage to stay in the dream much longer, but, hey, progress!


Also, I'm running a fever.  I'm not sure how that impacts things.

[Arakawa]

Interestingly, in the dream nothing happened, but I was aware of (and could feel) my actual body and the one in the dream simultaneously.  I guess this ties in with what Arakawa mentioned about sleep paralysis?

I didn't manage to stay in the dream much longer, but, hey, progress!

Right... the correct thing to do to stay in the dream is ignore the waking body and focus on the dream one. This is something that takes a bit of practice.

I assume that once you manage to stay in the dream for an extended period of time, you'll actually be more or less at my current level. Modulo some minor variations in level of recall and ease of entering the dream (which fluctuates for me wildly anyway), not to mention that handy anti-crashing training I got from my unconscious.

But the point is that about 80% of my lucid dreams happen near the morning under very similar circumstances to what you describe, when e.g. I'm waiting for the imminent alarm clock or somehow otherwise brooding about my current location in a bed / stuff on my smartphone beside the bed. This generates a dream where I happen to be lying in bed or checking the smartphone, and it's fairly easy to spot inconsistencies. I even developed a reality check specifically for that situation: if I can spin around 360 degrees in the bed (in blatant violation of conservation of momentum, and without bumping my head against the wall) just by thinking about it, then I'm asleep.

Sleep paralysis is more when part of my body shuts off for sleep, but there is no dream corresponding to it. Like when I used to try (in retrospect horrendously difficult) wake-induction techniques and snapping by body out of them took an effort. Or once in a blue moon I wake up and my left arm (and only my left arm) is actually physically paralyzed and lacks sensation for a minute, and hangs down from my left side while I can feel a phantom limb that's held out somewhere in front of my eyes. Or the trick I already mentioned of shutting off my vision without closing my eyes.

* Arakawa  is driven by all the talk of sleep paralysis to wonder how much bloodymindedness it really takes to get a wake-induction technique running

(Short explanation: wake-induction involves any number of tricks for wrenching the state of one's consciousness directly from waking consciousness to REM sleep with a lucid dream. Unlike with ordinary lucid dreaming, there is no evidence that anyone can learn to do this, or that the same tricks work for different people. Haven't seriously tried it in over two years.)

Anyhow, that's my infodump for today.

[Arakawa]

Also, for some reason if I manage to successfully lucid dream while sick, that tends to have a therapeutic effect. Not really sure why. Forcing a lucid dream exercises the same part of the brain responsible for the placebo effect?

[Brian]

I've had minimal luck with lucid dreaming, and my dream recall isn't holding up as well as I'd like.  Still sticking with it.

I'm noticing more and more consistent behaviors/effects between dreams.  I think that everyone must have their own largely consistent internal ruleset for how dreams work.  I'm contemplating the differences between what I'm figuring out for mine vs. Sars'.  It seems quite a bit of what she finds impossible is trivial for me, and vice-versa.  On the other hand, I never manage to remember Arakawa's tricks to transmute/create things, so I've got no idea if those will work for me....

Bleah.  Hopefully will manage to achieve lucidity again sometime soon.  At least the dream recall is going at all....

[Arakawa]

Hmm, I foolishly blurted out some things on IRC regarding the results of my experiment of 'summon dream character representations of real-life people and talk things over with them to resolve lingering issues'.

So, yeah. That particular experiment is not for the faint of heart. It drew attention to a fault I've ignored that's been screwing me up significantly for the past few years, but it was very horrible to get it out in the open and then belatedly wonder how people were going to react. I hope I haven't offended anyone by so doing...

[Brian]

I was actually mildly amused.  For what it's worth, when I dreamed about you and Sars (which I think mention of prompted the discussion), it didn't even occur to me that you'd be offended.

Possibly short-sighted on my part, but -- they're dreams.  I expect it'd say a lot more about me than you, and vice-versa.  Though I guess you realized that as well....

[Ranma_007]

I had a messed up dream that spanned two nights. In the first night, I was talking with this woman who said her husband just died, then I took a cab, and the cab driver was scared shitless. I thought something was wrong, but ignored it, and went home. Then I woke up. The next night I went back and talked to the woman again, and she said that her husband always took a cab home, so she paid the cab driver extra one time so that he could get home, even though he was gone. Then I figured out that the ghost of her husband was in the cab. Then I got a chill down my spine. That chill down my spine woke me up at 4:30 in the morning. Geez.

[Brian]

Had an absurd dream.  I haven't watched CSI in any form in years.

But last night I dreamed a full episode of it, and it was badly written, and incredibly stupid.  I remembered being annoyed and thinking it was possibly one of the worst episodes I'd ever seen.

I really wonder what prompts my dreams, sometimes.

[Brian]

arg

Had that most generic of dreams, being at work/school without any clothes.  I remember it being irritating and involving our office moving for some reason.  blearg

I had a very brief interlude where I woke from that dream and then went back to sleep and started dreaming again -- and was lucid enough to ignore my surroundings and fly ... but I messed things up and woke myself up again almost immediately afterward.

I am so bad at this. =_=

[Bezzerker]

I'm also trying to learn how to lucid dream, with mixed results.

Often I will have a single night where I can vividly recall my dream, then spend several weeks trying (or forgetting to try >.<) with no luck.

[Brian]

I have been able to turn dreams recently lucid, but not with good reliability.

In every case, as soon as I turn it lucid, the first thing I can think to do is fly, but it's almost always followed by me waking up.

[sarsaparilla]

In every case, as soon as I turn it lucid, the first thing I can think to do is fly, but it's almost always followed by me waking up.

In my experience, sudden termination of a lucid dream is most often induced by breaking the willing suspension of disbelief, i.e., trying to do something that you don't actually, deep down believe you can do. Because of that, despite being almost always lucid, I don't usually make drastic changes to the dreamscape that I am experiencing. I can fly naturally and effortlessly in my dreams because of long practice, but even then there are separate degrees of difficulty in the feat. By far the easiest way to fly is to hover just above the ground -- as an experience it is almost like walking around but without moving the legs. Slightly more effort is needed to fly in the space between the ground and the tallest objects around, usually rooftops or treetops. It may be beneficial to conceptualize it to oneself as swimming in the air. True freeform flying is the hardest trick, and should probably not be attempted before the other two modes have been mastered. The inherent problem would appear to be that without hobbies like parachuting most people lack natural experiences of the kind. Even when I am able to break the 'treetop barrier' by imagining an updraft that lifts me up on the sky, the state is less controllable and more volatile than most lucid experiences.

[Brian]

Maybe.  I wanted to fly because it would be a faster way to accomplish the objective (which I can't even recall).  I actually get a sense that I 'broke' the dream by violating the narrative pacing, more than anything else.

I have noticed that my dreams frequently take the form of non-interactive media (like a movie or a play), to the point that I frequently become a disembodied observer watching a character.  I may have been that character at one point, but stopped at some point, transitioning to the observer and leaving an actor behind.  It's strange....  It seems that these dreams are about not participating, but observing something my subconscious mind is trying to tell me; it's strangely more tolerant when I'm not actually 'present'; a few times I was able to look at it like a video game where I was remote controlling the 'self' I left behind.  In those instances I can make sweeping changes that seem to not drastically alter the narrative, and things will still continue.

I'm not sure ... just that my mind works against me sometimes. :p

Oh, well!  From a year ago, I've made considerable progress!  Hopefully by this time next year, I'll have gotten even further! ;)