Haigeki Discussion

[Jon]

Just finished reading 1-5. Verdict: eh. I've read better "Ranma is now a magical girl" stories. I've written better "Ranma is now a magical girl" stories. Heck, even Kenko's Paragon was better than this.

[Jason_Miao]

I am not taking Haigeki as "Ranma is a magical girl" fic.  Paragon was a straight up "Ranma is a magical girl" story,  with the pre-fight speech, the talking animal companion, boyfriend-related plots, etc.    If you were looking at Haigeki by that yardstick, it won't measure up, because it has never tried to do so; it's been clear from chapter 1 that Haigeki is not the same sort of story as Paragon.

With the plot type and twists, the magical system, etc, I think this is closer to wuxia-style magical girl (although I've been trying to fill out some scene stubs in my Ranma-wuxia fic lately, so I might be biased atm).  Another take is that it is channeling Nietzsche, except replace the word 'monster' with 'magical girl.'

[Arakawa]

My takeaway is that this is certainly a fic which needs to be looked at within its limitations to be appreciated. For instance: there is no significant character interaction in it. Whenever Ranma talks for an extended amount of time with another character, they are either (a) fighting, (b) negotiating, or (c) swapping exposition. That's pretty much all there is on the character front. The primary point seems to be either the martial-arts/magic/spiritual nerdery or more specifically the concept of magical-girl-transformation-as-self-administered-mind-rape.

(Incidentally, this makes me skeptical that there's going to be a terrible Akane scene which rehashes the whole tsundere thing for the zillionth time. Fleshing out the interactions between characters -- tritely or otherwise -- is just not the focus here, {EDIT} so probably Akane won't be onscreen for that long or they'll... I don't know, just fight or swap exposition or something. I do feel like echoing the guess above that there's going to be more "Ranma undergoes another terrible procedure in the dungeon and becomes even more girly" stuff, and the other stuff in the fic is just setup for demonstrating the entirety of the process. It reads a bit like one would imagine reading an interesting autopsy report. It's interesting... as long as you read it as an autopsy report.)

[Brian]

...I was pondering reading this right up until that analysis.  Thanks for the warning. o_O

[Arakawa]

... and now I have to spend a bit of time pondering whether that analysis of mine was fair. Probably yes. The mind rape angle is quite deliberate and is overtly played for horror. I'm going to stand by my assertion that it reads as an extremely detailed description of the negative side effects of being forced to warp your own soul into that of a pretty magical girl candy princess. (Pros: save Akane and Ukyo from experiencing the same fate; become a magical girl. Cons: danger of permanently overwriting your own immortal soul, or -- worse -- being captured and having Bad Nasty People overwrite your soul for you.) I don't know. I still found it interesting, but strictly in the autopsy-report sense. I'll leave it to people who see its merits as a story to defend it if they want.

[Brian]

I like Ranma as Ranma.  Or even an RSE.

Don't think I'd enjoy this angle.

[Arakawa]

A word of praise occurs: prior to the magical-girly-girl stuff, the author has a pretty interesting Ranma-shaped-entity going. Admittedly different from regular Ranma (see Drac's complaint above) since he's much more knowledgeable, a bit more calculating, and in general he comes across as far more sly and intelligent.

I could imagine enjoying the heck out of a fic where, instead of being repeatedly personality-warped into a girl, the same Ranma-shaped entity was instead some kind of martial arts expert being brought in to give expertise on some forensics investigation in a murder mystery or something. (And then all hell breaks loose as per standard procedure in a lot of good fanfiction.)

Because I liked the part where the character analyzed his first fight with the magical girls, correlated it to the tight-lipped exposition from Tuxedo Mask, and then deduced the basic mechanism of the magical girl transformation.

[Dracos]

My takeaway is that this is certainly a fic which needs to be looked at within its limitations to be appreciated. For instance: there is no significant character interaction in it. Whenever Ranma talks for an extended amount of time with another character, they are either (a) fighting, (b) negotiating, or (c) swapping exposition. That's pretty much all there is on the character front. The primary point seems to be either the martial-arts/magic/spiritual nerdery or more specifically the concept of magical-girl-transformation-as-self-administered-mind-rape.

(Incidentally, this makes me skeptical that there's going to be a terrible Akane scene which rehashes the whole tsundere thing for the zillionth time. Fleshing out the interactions between characters -- tritely or otherwise -- is just not the focus here, {EDIT} so probably Akane won't be onscreen for that long or they'll... I don't know, just fight or swap exposition or something. I do feel like echoing the guess above that there's going to be more "Ranma undergoes another terrible procedure in the dungeon and becomes even more girly" stuff, and the other stuff in the fic is just setup for demonstrating the entirety of the process. It reads a bit like one would imagine reading an interesting autopsy report. It's interesting... as long as you read it as an autopsy report.)

Pretty much.

I was really hoping there'd be a more ambitious counter then: I must erase myself, followed by "I have erased a good chunk of myself, and I still cannot even compete.  Now they have captured me and will totally try and erase the shit out of me."

[Dracos]

For someone judgemental on the fic, I certainly have way too many opinions :P

Hmmm, it's reasonable, but even for Ranma the 'understanding' comes  off as far too much Super Estoric Knowledge learning that makes it hard to buy the whole Nerima crew and especially normal competent martial artists knowing or comprehending.  It's one thing to see Ranma, maybe Ryoga going 'oh, I heard this from a monk somewhere in the alps', but I'd raise an eyebrow at Akane or Ukyou or most of the non-mystic origin cast being even remotely aware of the details.

Akane, no way. I could see Ukyou or Shampoo as a bit of a stretch. The others live and breathe martial arts, showing often insane capacity for them compared to other pursuits. Ryouga, Taro, Herb, Saffron? All of them I could see keeping up with this.  This stuff isn't so obscure to a martial art focused person, remember.

It's not that I can't buy a narrative that says "Hey, Ryoga, Taro, Ranma, Herb..Estoric Martial Arts Expertise".  Or Saffron (Older as Dirt) having heard of it.  But, it really is.  If it wasn't obscure, there would be more than a magical hidden away enclave of folks doing it.  Basically, it's not a stretch to buy one of them having heard of it...

But really, Ryoga, Taro, Saffron and most the Ranma cast aren't naturally analytic.  They're very martial and good at picking up techniques.  Other than Ranma, almost none of them are reported to have much formal training at all or what formal training is mentioned is stuff that would be pretty mundane.  It's easy to buy that they do (they're great martial artists), but still: Spirituality education would be something I'd blink at coming from more than one of the cast in the same fic without more AUness going on.

I should go DM my game instead of bantering here.  Bad me.

[Jon]

I could imagine enjoying the heck out of a fic where, instead of being repeatedly personality-warped into a girl, the same Ranma-shaped entity was instead some kind of martial arts expert being brought in to give expertise on some forensics investigation in a murder mystery or something. (And then all hell breaks loose as per standard procedure in a lot of good fanfiction.)

Mmmm, CSI:Nerima.

[Brian]

Mmmm, CSI:Nerima.

Outlined to chapter 5.  I'm way behind. -_-

[Jason_Miao]

The chapters are analytical, but I think this is a condition of writing in the first person, rather than a deliberate characterization.  Ranma in canon is not naturally analytical, but first person perspective is predominated by self-thought.

Maybe that just means that the writer shouldn't have written it in the first person perspective, but I think that's also an unfair generalization of the viewpoint in general.  IMO, I think the real problem is that it's difficult to reconcile keeping the viewer accurately updated with the action and the fact that Ranma is oblivious-for-comedic-reasons.  Of course, that is hard to do, but that's the peril of writing in the first person perspective in the first place.

[Dracos]

Oblivious for comedic reasons?

Uh, that story is absolutely totally not a comedy, nor is Ranma in it a comedically oblivious character.  Am I missing something?

[Arakawa]

I assume the above comment refers to the idea that Ranma is oblivious-for-comedic-reasons in canon. Which means that a disadvantage of first-person Ranma narration is that anyone doing it has to either content themselves with important plot elements never being mentioned, or contradict this trait and make Ranma much more perceptive than he is in canon. The author of the Haigeki fic is clearly going for the latter route.

[Jon]

I do feel like echoing the guess above that there's going to be more "Ranma undergoes another terrible procedure in the dungeon and becomes even more girly" stuff,

This is disturbingly common among some parts of the fandom and it makes me sad. I like a fic where Ranma decides to explore his feminine side (see Girl Days or Clothes Make The, for instance), but when you actually remove Ranma's personality from the equation, it takes all the fun out of it. (Plus you're left with the distinct feeling you've just waded through someone's fetish without appropriate hazmat gear.)