[Haruhi] The Severance of Haruhi Suzumiya (Old, Completed Fic) [Spoilers]

[Grahf]

I must begin by apologizing that this isn't new. The truth is that I've been struggling to find the proper motivation to write a fic that's been on my mind for quite some time, but before I move forward I want some solid advice on the only multichapter work I ever attempted.

The Severance of Haruhi Suzumiya

Admittedly, it's about a year and a half old at this point and I'd always thought of it as completed although I'm not discounting that if there is enough feedback to warrant some major alterations that a rewrite could be in order (of what magnitude I know not). Since I do have some distance from the work though thanks to time I'm able to perceive at least a few of the shortcomings that I wasn't aware of at the time, and also taken into consideration some of the more helpful commentary I got at the time.

I know that this is a strange step, but I'm going to outline the faults that I know are in there, but spoiler them so that people don't have any preconceptions going in; whether you agree, disagree, think the list should be twice as long, or whatever, I believe it's at least useful to have this as a baseline:

Spoiler: ShowHide

• I had/have a lot of trouble with Haruhi's characterization. Durandall and Agasa have pointed out previously that some of the ways she acts in here are a step backwards in terms of canon. As a result I also tended to write very little of her, essentially shoving her out of the spotlight.
• My treatment of Mikuru!Big is downright cruel. At the time it seemed logical to have her as a sort of central villain but looking back on it now she's very OCC and the final confrontation with her is also poorly handled. If I had to rewrite anything I'd rewrite that, and perhaps make it so that she just has an epiphany regarding her friendships and comes to her senses.
• I end nearly every chapter on a cliffhanger. I guess it's a way to keep people coming for the next chapter, but looking back on it it's also really cheap and underhanded.
• I don't include any of the Esper interaction in here. They'd be just as conflicted about the current events as the other parties, but I mostly just shove them into the background.
• The final chapter and revelations fall flat. Issues of trust arise that shouldn't, and it all seems just sort of cheesy in the end.

There's likely more, but that's why I'm asking for feedback here. I admit that I had a wonderful beta in Arty D'Arc and that it would have been markedly worse without her presence, but even in spite of that I know that there's a lot that leaves something to be desired. I hope that it's still an enjoyable story despite this, but before I can move on I need to know where my weaknesses and strengths are, and the only way to do that is to have a group that knows what they're talking about look at it. Thank you in advance for any help or advice you can give.

[Brian]

Are you rewriting this, or just sounding out the general quality of writing in general to prepare yourself for the next story you're thinking about?

The difference between these will determine the depth of my own comments, since (no offense), I'll probably discuss the vagaries more than the specifics in the case of the latter case.

[Grahf]

The difference between these will determine the depth of my own comments, since (no offense), I'll probably discuss the vagaries more than the specifics in the case of the latter case.

No offence taken. After all if there's not going to be any changes then I'd be quite rude to ask for an in depth breakdown of everything. I also know that my grammar is kind of horrible all things considered, so there would probably be a lot to fix in that regard as well.

At the moment I'm not planning on rewriting it. Frankly though if enough people (yourself included of course) think that there's enough issues and things to be improved to merit a rewrite then I certainly would.

All things told a chapter by chapter rewrite might also be just the thing to actually get me to move from a static state.

[Brian]

Well--  I'll take a look tomorrow, then.  It's been a long while since I've read this....

Anyway, don't let other people determine if you need a rewrite; that's your decision.  If you're happy with the story, then that should be fine, right? ;)

[Muphrid]

I'd been meaning to give some thoughts on this piece even before this post, but now I really have the impetus to do so.  I'll try to focus on broad things and only point out specifics as things that may be improved in the future if you wish.

So, I think (I think) I've read this before, though I can't say when or if it was even completed at the time.  Hence, this will be a bit of rediscovery for me as well.


Chapter One

I like the opening, love in many different languages.  It's a good, literary sort of way to start.

The first few lines of a story are pretty critical.  Something I notice right away with the second paragraph:

I found both things out the hard way, and now I'm not so sure what to do about it. My name is... well, my name's not important, everyone just calls me Kyon anyways, so I guess it's what I'll go by. Anyways, this is the story of a girl I know, a self-centered, egotistical brat, but also paradoxically a talented and uniquely wonderful girl named Haruhi Suzumiya, and plain old boring me. This is a story about how we broke each others hearts.

Kyon is a bit self-effacing here and his words a bit casual.  Given his feelings later on, this isn't a bad tone to set, though.  It's just what I take out of it.

I think overall in this chapter your sense of Kyon is good.  He has the sort of reactions I'd expect--a slightly restrained sense of thinking on his feet and reacting honestly to what he sees.  Haruhi's admission that she loves him and that he's helped her see things in a new light is sweet, and the idea that she would still want to find John Smith is logical.  There are no problems there.

What I realized at the end of this chapter is that it's direct.  It gets right to the point, so to speak, and doesn't spend much time dilly-dallying on the way.  There are pros and cons to this approach.  At the beginning of a story, I do think getting to the central premise quickly is a smart thing to do.  On the other hand, Koizumi and Nagato (and even Asahina, to an extent) are used her to inform Kyon of oncoming trouble.  Kyon informs us he's been seeing Haruhi for several months, and we don't really see them for any length of time as boyfriend and girlfriend.  These are efficient techniques for getting to the point right away, but the cost, I feel, is that they build anticipation and suspense mostly on just an intellectual level.

Nevertheless, I feel like Kyon's reactions to Haruhi and the profound sense of irony are good, and since all the other stuff above is not really the focus, I imagine, it's not a bad thing to give them less time and get to the central conflict right away.  I wouldn't worry about that, then, though I'll keep an eye on such points in future chapters, nibbling away at this in chunks as I can.

[Grahf]

What I realized at the end of this chapter is that it's direct.  It gets right to the point, so to speak, and doesn't spend much time dilly-dallying on the way.  There are pros and cons to this approach.  At the beginning of a story, I do think getting to the central premise quickly is a smart thing to do.  On the other hand, Koizumi and Nagato (and even Asahina, to an extent) are used her to inform Kyon of oncoming trouble.  Kyon informs us he's been seeing Haruhi for several months, and we don't really see them for any length of time as boyfriend and girlfriend.  These are efficient techniques for getting to the point right away, but the cost, I feel, is that they build anticipation and suspense mostly on just an intellectual level.

Actually, you've just made me remember a very important point: this story was actually originally written as a one shot. The premise occurred to me one day after watching yet another episode of Endless Eight and I wrote it as a single chapter "what if" story, never intending to actually continue it from the end. That's why there's no build up and the relationship was just taken as a given. I don't think it really excuses anything, but it might frame the first chapter in a somewhat different light.

Thank you for the input so far!

[Muphrid]

I definitely understand the urge to write something after a particular experience; I feel like such pieces tend to be more cathartic as a train-of-thought experience than something that's planned and shaped on a strong, conscious level.  It serves a different purpose from other writing, or I imagine it so.


Anyway, some remarks about chapter two:

Even after being passed out for so long, I was able to get out of the school before they locked it up. Good thing too; I didn't feel like explaining the situation to an irate or nosy janitor, and it wasn't like I could make heads or tails of what had just happened anyway. Haruhi was in love with me; but she was in love with John Smith—who is me—more. Of course she didn't know it was me, so being with me must have reminded her of what John Smith was like ...

Kyon was passed out?  He fainted?  He fell asleep after Haruhi broke up with him?

Everyone has always considered me as some anchor, some rock, some person to turn to in the time of crisis. But I'm not the Rock of Gibraltar. I can't hold off every enemy, I can't succeed in every situation. I couldn't do anything but watch in horror as Asahina-san was kidnapped, and I was powerless when Nagato fell ill not once, but twice (well, okay, the second time I made a difference, but only in the nick of time). I'm not cut out to be a leader, especially not of a merry band like this! Even Robin Hood would have flipped his cap if he had to deal with an alien, a time traveler, an esper, and on top of that, a girl who could alter reality on a whim but didn't know it.

This is an interesting perspective on Kyon--that in a time of crisis and stress he can see himself as a powerless dwarf among giants.  This feels like a good extension of what might stick at the back of Kyon's mind most of the time, for that powerlessness would surely play into what he's feeling now.

"That is all I ask. I realize that you must be aware of Haruhi's intentions."

This is Koizumi's dialogue, so it should naturally be "Suzumiya-san's" intentions.


The conversation with Koizumi in the courtyard is...somewhat puzzling to me.  I went over it a few times to make sure I got it properly.  Koizumi is asking Kyon not to reveal that he's John Smith to Haruhi, and Kyon says he won't live with the guilt of withholding information from her, but this is what he's already done in canon.  What about this situation has changed?  That Haruhi is now actively seeking John Smith?  If so, Kyon should recognize that and, in my opinion, say this is why he's willing to do things differently.  It need not be a totally rational decision--he clearly doesn't care about any possible consequences, and that emphasizes his state of mind.  Nevertheless, I feel there's a small point of logic that's going unsaid.

...or, maybe it's just said in the next chapter.


Koizumi's stance seems slightly impenetrable to me, too.  He says at one point that Kyon is asking Koizumi to choose between him or Haruhi, and while in the context of Kyon refusing to rekindle a relationship with Haruhi I can understand that.  In the context of Kyon keeping or not keeping the truth from her, I'm not sure I follow.


In keeping with what I said about the first chapter, there does strike me as some missed opportunity for depth and background.  Kyon is quite visibly stunned throughout the chapter and reeling, but it all feels a little nonspecific.  This is a chance to puctuate his emotional state with something personal--a fond memory from during their relationship, say.  I definitely sympathize with Kyon in this chapter; I just want to feel a little more of how he's twisted up inside as well, if that makes sense.

I also noticed Kyon's references to Greek mythology--a nice, literary touch.  It can also emphasize that Kyon is well-read in using mythological figures from around the world, not just local ones.

[Grahf]

Kyon was passed out?  He fainted?  He fell asleep after Haruhi broke up with him?

Being struck into a stupor is what I was probably trying to go for there, but it didn't quite work out.

The conversation with Koizumi in the courtyard is...somewhat puzzling to me.  I went over it a few times to make sure I got it properly.  Koizumi is asking Kyon not to reveal that he's John Smith to Haruhi, and Kyon says he won't live with the guilt of withholding information from her, but this is what he's already done in canon.  What about this situation has changed?  That Haruhi is now actively seeking John Smith?  If so, Kyon should recognize that and, in my opinion, say this is why he's willing to do things differently.  It need not be a totally rational decision--he clearly doesn't care about any possible consequences, and that emphasizes his state of mind.  Nevertheless, I feel there's a small point of logic that's going unsaid.

...or, maybe it's just said in the next chapter.


Koizumi's stance seems slightly impenetrable to me, too.  He says at one point that Kyon is asking Koizumi to choose between him or Haruhi, and while in the context of Kyon refusing to rekindle a relationship with Haruhi I can understand that.  In the context of Kyon keeping or not keeping the truth from her, I'm not sure I follow.

I'll try to answer these to the best of my ability. I've somewhat felt that Kyon has been avoiding thinking about what he has and has not told Haruhi. Since both times he admitted anything that could break the masquerade -- telling her the true origins of the other members and phoning her when Mikuru was kidnapped -- were both played as Cassandra Truth. I'm not honestly sure that a relationship between them could survive with him actively thinking about just what he can and cannot tell her since it clearly bothers him to be dishonest with her as such. You're correct in saying some elaboration on the whole background of them actually being in a relationship would have helped here, as I probably would have portrayed Kyon as trying his damnedest just not to think about it, but sort of knowing that it looms large in the background.

Koizumi here seems more interested in maintaining the status quo; that being a relatively happy and stable Haruhi. His stance and statements are sort of an underhanded way of Koizumi showing both a little selfishness and jealousy over the situation. He does have conflicts of interest, and as I've written him here he's not entirely disinterested in Haruhi, but of course to him pursuing her would generally be absolutely out of the question, so her relationship with Kyon is convenient for him because it renders her unavailable. If I do address all these issues with a rewrite I'll probably have Koizumi be more confused about the entire thing since he doesn't understand the circumstances -- is anyone beside Yuki actually in on the whole John Smith thing? -- and he's genuinely worried on a lot of fronts and thinks this is the simplest solution.

[Muphrid]

I'll try to answer these to the best of my ability. I've somewhat felt that Kyon has been avoiding thinking about what he has and has not told Haruhi. Since both times he admitted anything that could break the masquerade -- telling her the true origins of the other members and phoning her when Mikuru was kidnapped -- were both played as Cassandra Truth. I'm not honestly sure that a relationship between them could survive with him actively thinking about just what he can and cannot tell her since it clearly bothers him to be dishonest with her as such. You're correct in saying some elaboration on the whole background of them actually being in a relationship would have helped here, as I probably would have portrayed Kyon as trying his damnedest just not to think about it, but sort of knowing that it looms large in the background.

I think this is a very fair assessment of where Kyon is coming from.

Koizumi here seems more interested in maintaining the status quo; that being a relatively happy and stable Haruhi. His stance and statements are sort of an underhanded way of Koizumi showing both a little selfishness and jealousy over the situation. He does have conflicts of interest, and as I've written him here he's not entirely disinterested in Haruhi, but of course to him pursuing her would generally be absolutely out of the question, so her relationship with Kyon is convenient for him because it renders her unavailable. If I do address all these issues with a rewrite I'll probably have Koizumi be more confused about the entire thing since he doesn't understand the circumstances -- is anyone beside Yuki actually in on the whole John Smith thing? -- and he's genuinely worried on a lot of fronts and thinks this is the simplest solution.

Even Nagato may not know about "John Smith who will shake the world."  I guess that's one thing (and maybe I just missed it) that bothered me also:  Koizumi seems, psychically (pardon the pun), to know why Haruhi broke up with Kyon.  It could be he suspected all along that something like this could happen, but still.  I definitely like the conflict of interest vibe that does come across, the notion that Koizumi is indeed smitten with Haruhi in his own way.  I think it adds to the inherent friction between him and Kyon.  Koizumi may present himself as the voice of reason--urging Kyon not to tell Haruhi the truth for fear of the consequences, but he doesn't have high ground in terms of talking about selfish actions if he knows that keeping Kyon out of the picture gives an opening for himself.  Kyon, on the other hand, can reasonably be worried about what could happen if he told Haruhi the truth yet still want to do so, consequences be damned.  The predicament is good because both sides are reasonable depending on what the characters want more.

[JonBob]

In my mind, Kyon is able to maintain the relationship initially because there's a disconnect to him between Haruhi's powers and her relationship with him. When she reveals that she's really interested in John Smith, I think it forces the powers aspect of her into the relationship aspect of her, making it un-ignorable and therefore Kyon can't gloss over not telling her about her power.

At this point, my only other question is:

Spoiler: ShowHide

 if Asakura knew about Kyon before, wasn't she worried about a time paradox if classroom!Kyon got killed before showing up in the past?

[sarsaparilla]

At this point, my only other question is:

Spoiler: ShowHide

 if Asakura knew about Kyon before, wasn't she worried about a time paradox if classroom!Kyon got killed before showing up in the past?

Spoiler: ShowHide

Arguably, temporal paradoxes in the Haruhi-verse are only apparent, not factual, and arise from our incomplete understanding of time as a phenomenon. As an example, Disappearance!Asakura gets disintegrated right at the beginning of the Disappearance timeline, but that doesn't prevent her from bringing a meal to Kyon and Disappearance!Nagato later in the same universe. I once drew a complex graph to illustrate the situation, but the gist of it is that in the Haruhi-verse, causality is subjective and depends on the actual path the observer takes through time (at least, if that observer happens to be Kyon -- of anybody other we aren't too sure).

[Halbarad]

Sorry to be late to the party; I'm starting to go through this now with a critical eye. Been pushing to get my own project done so I haven't been keeping up as well as I should.

Since it doesn't sound like your intention is a rewrite, I'll keep the review fairly high-level; I won't spend a lot of time nitpicking grammar or sentence structure here - more looking at the overall story premise and characterization.

Edit: Adding commentary for Chapter 1. I apologize in advance; since I'm not doing a line-by-line here, I'm more going through the chapter and writing down impressions as they come across. Feel free to internalize or disregard as you find appropriate or helpful, or if you'd like clarification just let me know. Since there's no specific rewrite planned, I also won't be offering alternatives in my initial comments (since they aren't really needed), although if you'd like me to suggest something for a point I'll be happy to do so.

• Kyon's voice seems a little too casual. Not a huge point, but canonically he's notable for his dry wit and tendency to ramble about unrelated topics; he feels a little bit too 'chummy' in the beginning here. Improves considerably as the chapter continues, though.
• The attitude towards Haruhi seems very appropriate for Kyon; the dichotomy is presented well (is she a menace to society or someone actually pleasant to be around? Or both?) Possibly a -little- on the harsh side if they're actually dating, but I suspect even with that in play Kyon would retain a healthy sense of caution around Haruhi.
• The dating drop is a bit too casual, I think. I understand it's a background point to the story (so you don't really want to spend a lot of focus or exposition on it), but even so it's a little too vague, especially given the shift it would have taken for either Haruhi or Kyon to come to the point of committing like that.
• The banter with Koizumi is quite good. =)
• Haruhi hiding her emotional state from the espers? If she was aware of them I could see that, but given that she has no idea the mental link to her is even there, this seems to be a bit of a stretch.
• "After all, how off can Haruhi be if she was still treating me like a lackey?" - This kind of points up the oddity of the dating situation; having that kind of shift in the relationship should affect the way they relate to each other on all levels, particularly if they're in private like this. Why -would- she treat him like a lackey if she's moved up to dating him - or more significantly, why would Kyon expect her to? It makes sense for her in context of what's coming - she's trying to put distance between them - but it should be something of a slap in the face for Kyon, I'd think.
• The usual fudging between inner monologue/actual dialogue with Kyon is something of a hindrance at the end of the chapter; it's not a hard and fast rule that he always 'speaks' that way, so having some lines more explicitly laid out as dialogue through the breakup scene could help to clarify it a bit more.

[Halbarad]

Chapter 2 impressions!

• Timing seems somewhat vague here, which could just be a research thing (on either side); my impression was that the school was locked up shortly after clubs ended, so it'd seem like Kyon wasn't a lot later than normal - thus making his parents' anger a bit weird.
• Kyon's 'screw the world' attitude at the end of the first scene is completely understandable, but it's not particularly well-telegraphed before that point, and so it jars a bit.
• Bit of a disconnect with Kyon referring to being 'the significant other of a person that some have even called God' - I can understand the need to find alternate phrasings to refer to people, but this seems like a poor choice here. He's made a point in canon never to attach any significance to that, so for him to phrase it this way makes it seem like he's more disappointed at being dumped by 'God' than by Haruhi. This might just be due to my personal view of Kyon, though, so take with a liberal dose of salt.
• To be honest, I'm not sure what the point of the scene with Taniguchi is. There's some point to having Kyon sort out his feelings before having to face Haruhi again, but once Taniguchi shows up the only thing that seems to be the result is coming up with a reinforced impression of Taniguchi as an idiot. If he was moderately perceptive here he could probably commiserate, since he was probably dumped by Haruhi himself in middle school, but otherwise there doesn't seem to be much gained from the interaction.
• "You and Suzumiya-san shared a connection that grew and matured over time into the relationship that the both of you shared" - This comes back to the point about the dating from chapter 1. The reader has no idea what kind of relationship Haruhi and Kyon actually had while they were dating, so this kind of rings hollow. Was it a relationship in name only? Doesn't really fit too well given that Kyon (and as far as we can tell, Haruhi) is rather broken up about it, but what kind of relationship -did- they have? Did Haruhi drag Kyon into plots to steal hot air balloons, or was it a more typical high-school romance, strange as that might be for her? How much did Kyon lose, and how much was Haruhi willing to give up?
• I'll echo a previous point that Koizumi knowing about the whole John Smith situation is a little fishy. I do like your voice for him otherwise, though, rings very true to the canon picture I have of him (and if I'm being honest, he's one of the people I have the hardest time writing myself.)
• The jump to threatening is jarring (as it was probably intended), but lumping Haruhi in with Kyon in the 'lack of protection' thing seems wrong. If they were going bad the Organization would certainly drop Kyon like a hot potato, but Haruhi's still the focus of the entire group's existence.

Most of what I'm seeing could probably be caught by earlier beta-ing. I have no idea how it was done when the story was originally written, but one thing that's been a massive help to me with the stories I've done so far (and while I can't speak for Brian, I'd like to think he gets the same benefit) is having someone to review ideas at the outline stage, not just after the chapter is written. A second set of eyes can help to spot actions that look odd, and the difference in perspective can be really helpful in finding alternative ways of dealing with the same situation. Catching this at the outline stage also means you can scrap and rearrange before you've spent time getting text down for the scene, which means you're likely less attached to that particular approach.

[Grahf]

Thank you for your thoughts so far. I can say that in terms of beta-ing that I did write up a chapter first as opposed to sending an outline. I can say that Arty improved a lot, but I can see how dealing with a 'finished' product can result in some of the problems -- mostly the inconsistency -- getting through.

[Halbarad]

Chapter 3 stuff.

To note, I did see the points you noted yourself, but for me to actually comment, it's best if I do these more or less as stream-of-consciousness, so I'll likely hit some of these points again. Feel free to ignore if you're aware of them, although I'll at least try to offer some recommendations on how to avoid them (mostly characterization issues with Haruhi.)

• The fact that Haruhi is that quick to leap to distrust of Kyon is kind of disturbing, almost like she's looking for excuses to cut him off even further. Somewhat understandable if she's having a hard time coping, but actually playing up that angle from her side would tone her down slightly from 'rampaging bitch out for Kyon's head'. As it is, we see almost none of her motivation for lighting into Kyon like that, and while we're not going to see her internal motivations, it'd still be possible to give some non-verbal cues that can hint at her own conflict (and thus humanize her a bit more).
• Kyon napping through lunch seems a little weird. I can't see the students getting more than an hour for lunch at the most, so within this time period we have:
   
  • Koizumi dragging Kyon off and an esper nearly getting punched
  • Haruhi seeing this and Kyon nearly getting punched
  • Kyon falling asleep in the brigade room
  • Kyon getting awakened (from a pretty solid nap) by Tsuruya and having another conversation
  • Kyon still having half an hour left for lunch and trying to nap -again-
• Mikuru being recalled like this begs the question: "Why?" - i.e., why would her superiors choose this moment to do it, why would they do it so abruptly, what do they stand to gain from throwing a wrench in the works like this? Even if these questions are never addressed or answered directly in the story, you may find that having answers for them helps to form a more complete picture in your writing - you can use those justifications to explain further actions in the story, or build a more consistent image for Mikuru/her superiors.
• Haruhi classifying Mikuru's departure as 'unstoppable' specifically gives the impression that she -wants- to get rid of Mikuru, or that the entire setup is just a subconscious effort on Haruhi's part to actually remove Mikuru - which helps to build that image of Haruhi as selfish and manipulative again. If anything, simply leave it as something that happened that Haruhi hasn't affected one way or the other.