Feedback time!

[Anastasia]

Feedback time! Try and have these answered by Sunday evening. Some time for back and forth discussion is nice.

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1. How's your build working? Any mechanical issues or things you'd like to rectify?
2. In what ways is your build effective? Are you happy with how it's effective?
3. The world is fairly layered. Some of it's worked well (kobolds, general underground), some not so much (stratum). What do you all think? I'm trying to mix up the world and generally experimenting.
4. Myann's ended up as the fourth in the party. This wasn't truly designed as much as it sort of happened. To be honest, it's easier for me after B3 to just run one NPC for general ally aid. Do you feel she's pulling her weight without hogging the spotlight from you all? The way it worked out with her being a fey is dicey there, especially when the fey call the party her court or minions. (Even if she clearly disapproves of that assumption.) On one hand, it lets you deal with the fey in a radically different way without a PC being saddled with the problems fey powers bring. On the other hand, it draws a lot of attention to her. What do you all think?
5. What have you thought of the last few dungeon scenarios? Say from the hunt for the Emperor on. I've been trying for each one to have a different feel.
6. Anything you'd like to bring up that hasn't been covered?

[Nephrite]

1. How's your build working? Any mechanical issues or things you'd like to rectify?

I'm enjoying Gildas' ability to do things much more than I was previously. Once I discovered that I could do unarmed attacks it helped my damage output a lot. There was a period where it did feel like everyone had a lot more AC than I did, but since I got a new form with a hefty AC bonus, I've caught up.

I'm worried my damage may not scale up, but considering we keep getting various bonuses, it probably won't ever come up, and that's an easy knob to turn. There's not too much else I think I'd change about him at the moment, he's perfectly effective at what he does without seemingly more dominating than the other two party members, at least from my perspective.

I should probably try and come up with more custom spells.

2. In what ways is your build effective? Are you happy with how it's effective?

I like that I can dish out a pretty hefty amount of damage on one target and still manage to take a lot of hits. My mobility has been really great, and I also like the shapeshifting for ease of travel.

In terms of spells, I've tried to stick with the niche of being a support caster instead of a direct-damage caster or summoner, like most Druids. I'd like to think that's worked out pretty well.

3. The world is fairly layered. Some of it's worked well (kobolds, general underground), some not so much (stratum). What do you all think? I'm trying to mix up the world and generally experimenting.

At my core, I'm very curious about how everything ties together. I'm the type who kind of wonders what sort of paths we didn't end up taking (the "four adventurers" that were mentioned back in the start of the game at Clearbrook, the spiders, etc.) and how they might have impacted us. I hope we can solve all the mysteries someday. I don't know that we'll ever truly understand the motives of some people (the Emperor, Johann) but if possible, I'd like to find out.

4. Myann's ended up as the fourth in the party. This wasn't truly designed as much as it sort of happened. To be honest, it's easier for me after B3 to just run one NPC for general ally aid. Do you feel she's pulling her weight without hogging the spotlight from you all? The way it worked out with her being a fey is dicey there, especially when the fey call the party her court or minions. (Even if she clearly disapproves of that assumption.) On one hand, it lets you deal with the fey in a radically different way without a PC being saddled with the problems fey powers bring. On the other hand, it draws a lot of attention to her. What do you all think?

I like Myann having some sway over the other fey members, because as you say it lets us interact with them without going through any needlessly complicated hoops. I do worry we rely on her too much for your narrative at times, though.

5. What have you thought of the last few dungeon scenarios? Say from the hunt for the Emperor on. I've been trying for each one to have a different feel.

I would have liked to spend more time exploring some of the dungeons and hunting for things rather than going directly to the end encounter. The most recent Legend of the Hidden Temple run was a great "you've conquered an insane emperor and a necromancer, what the hell is some little Sidhe temple going to do to you?" kind of feeling.

6. Anything you'd like to bring up that hasn't been covered?

I always look forward to our sessions. I'm really glad I decided to try and play because I've learned a lot about the system in doing so, and Eb and Cor have been a really great help in teaching me mechanics. I still get confused on certain things, so I appreciate everyone's patience.

[Anastasia]

I'm enjoying Gildas' ability to do things much more than I was previously. Once I discovered that I could do unarmed attacks it helped my damage output a lot. There was a period where it did feel like everyone had a lot more AC than I did, but since I got a new form with a hefty AC bonus, I've caught up.

I'm worried my damage may not scale up, but considering we keep getting various bonuses, it probably won't ever come up, and that's an easy knob to turn. There's not too much else I think I'd change about him at the moment, he's perfectly effective at what he does without seemingly more dominating than the other two party members, at least from my perspective.

Damage shouldn't be a problem, I assure you. At worst you're right, it's easy to toss on some extra damage dice and fix anyone who's lagging. Speaking of AC, Myann will be using that form a lot, since the AC boost is a big deal for her.

I should probably try and come up with more custom spells.

By all means. Talk to me if you have ideas.

I like that I can dish out a pretty hefty amount of damage on one target and still manage to take a lot of hits. My mobility has been really great, and I also like the shapeshifting for ease of travel.

Shapeshifting's travel options have really shone this game. I'm trying to balance that out by the difficult terrain granting bonuses when dealt with, such as the competence bonuses to climb and acrobatics recently.

In terms of spells, I've tried to stick with the niche of being a support caster instead of a direct-damage caster or summoner, like most Druids. I'd like to think that's worked out pretty well.

Yeah, you're the only one on the team that can do serious utility. Things like controlling the current to open up a path to a new dungeon's neat.

At my core, I'm very curious about how everything ties together. I'm the type who kind of wonders what sort of paths we didn't end up taking (the "four adventurers" that were mentioned back in the start of the game at Clearbrook, the spiders, etc.) and how they might have impacted us. I hope we can solve all the mysteries someday. I don't know that we'll ever truly understand the motives of some people (the Emperor, Johann) but if possible, I'd like to find out.

I'll spoil Johann here since the odds of finding out more about him are about nil. Johann was a mage who looked into the secrets of life and death. That's fairly standard as far as that goes, but he looked too far in ways and realms he shouldn't have. This is a recurring problem with spellcasters in this game, as save for the PCs, they've been a fucked up lot. Johann was insane, but he did have coherent motives. He was attempting to create an artificial mantle related to undead, essentially making him sort of a bastardized fey.

The problem was that various tests he did led the party to him. Oh, and that whole being insane as balls thing. That was a problem too. He alternated personality and tactics each time because he was unstable and insane.

I like Myann having some sway over the other fey members, because as you say it lets us interact with them without going through any needlessly complicated hoops. I do worry we rely on her too much for your narrative at times, though.

I do use her to nudge y'all when you're not doing anything or not lining for a period of time. Beyond that it's up to you how much you use her. Drawing on her fey powers to pull bullshit out at any time is a viable option, but you also know that comes with a price.

I would have liked to spend more time exploring some of the dungeons and hunting for things rather than going directly to the end encounter. The most recent Legend of the Hidden Temple run was a great "you've conquered an insane emperor and a necromancer, what the hell is some little Sidhe temple going to do to you?" kind of feeling.

Yeah, I liked it a lot. Not everything is escalation. D&D's basic structure encourages natural escalation, so averting this at times is a good mix up.

I always look forward to our sessions. I'm really glad I decided to try and play because I've learned a lot about the system in doing so, and Eb and Cor have been a really great help in teaching me mechanics. I still get confused on certain things, so I appreciate everyone's patience.

It's been a lot of fun running this game and y'all have been great PCs so far.

[Ebiris]

1. How's your build working? Any mechanical issues or things you'd like to rectify?

Honestly pretty dull and weak it seems like. When I get a full sneak attack I do comparable damage to everyone else's regular damage and I think that about says it all. I took psionic fist so I could get some versatility as well as patch the weak regular damage by getting a power to ensure more sneak attacks, but it's just patching holes and not really shining.

2. In what ways is your build effective? Are you happy with how it's effective?

When I do get a full sneak attack it's pretty nice. Also the movement and stealth skills work out pretty well, especially with strategic use of invisibility.

3. The world is fairly layered. Some of it's worked well (kobolds, general underground), some not so much (stratum). What do you all think? I'm trying to mix up the world and generally experimenting.

To be honest I wouldn't have hated stratum so much if not for the way it was introduced. Creepy kids are never a good way to sell something, and I was unhappy that the 'quest hook to bring John into things' was something focused on a class he'd just taken rather than anything to do with his character. The underground and the fey realms are both pro and I look forward to exploring deeper in both.

4. Myann's ended up as the fourth in the party. This wasn't truly designed as much as it sort of happened. To be honest, it's easier for me after B3 to just run one NPC for general ally aid. Do you feel she's pulling her weight without hogging the spotlight from you all? The way it worked out with her being a fey is dicey there, especially when the fey call the party her court or minions. (Even if she clearly disapproves of that assumption.) On one hand, it lets you deal with the fey in a radically different way without a PC being saddled with the problems fey powers bring. On the other hand, it draws a lot of attention to her. What do you all think?

Myann's fine. In general terms she's a bit of utility without doing terribly much damage. Having an angle on the fey stuff is nice too after how things were played out versus fey at the start.

5. What have you thought of the last few dungeon scenarios? Say from the hunt for the Emperor on. I've been trying for each one to have a different feel.

I really liked the Emperor bit since I got to shine with stealth. The chest-carnival was neat and I won't mind seeing some sort of reprise when it's regenerated. Johann's tower? I honestly would've preferred it to have been an underground dungeon or even a standard tower. Flying and invisible just feels to big a reach.

6. Anything you'd like to bring up that hasn't been covered?

In regards to the increasing bonuses to things for doing things, I feel like I really lost out by having Porridge die and having to start from scratch with John. Also I kinda wish I'd rolled something more interesting/versatile than a monk/rogue. The whole 'alltheattacks' conceit was fun to start, but it's pretty shallow.

[Anastasia]

Honestly pretty dull and weak it seems like. When I get a full sneak attack I do comparable damage to everyone else's regular damage and I think that about says it all. I took psionic fist so I could get some versatility as well as patch the weak regular damage by getting a power to ensure more sneak attacks, but it's just patching holes and not really shining.

I more or less agree with that. I feel like you need something to boost single attack damage at the least, been debating this awhile. More on this below.

When I do get a full sneak attack it's pretty nice. Also the movement and stealth skills work out pretty well, especially with strategic use of invisibility.

Agreed on that. You can do the blender thing on full-attack easily enough and I do like the contrast of the big guy being such a good sneak.

To be honest I wouldn't have hated stratum so much if not for the way it was introduced. Creepy kids are never a good way to sell something, and I was unhappy that the 'quest hook to bring John into things' was something focused on a class he'd just taken rather than anything to do with his character. The underground and the fey realms are both pro and I look forward to exploring deeper in both.

In the interests of full disclosure, I had the Stratum stuff planned out well before John. Taking a psionic class made it a timely hook-in. I'd spent some effort at establishing psionics as a thing in the world. I agree it's kind of crummy to base it around that, but it was also coming down the pipes and you neatly latched onto it, so there was world building synergy I liked.

That being said, fair enough with the rest. I knew that if you adopted or dealt with El he would be hit or miss. Unfortunately he was a miss, but so it goes. I wanted something different than the normal type of NPC with him. I got that, even if he careened into a wall, burst into flame and was a big old Nascar style pileup of not-working.

Myann's fine. In general terms she's a bit of utility without doing terribly much damage. Having an angle on the fey stuff is nice too after how things were played out versus fey at the start.

Myann's damage gets a bump next level, with a powerful new shapeshift form and a 10d6 block rain radius spell. Her being low on damage is by design, with bumps to catch up after a few levels of falling behind. Anyway, completely agreed with the fey stuff. I made those points early on and it's nice to build off of those. You all know how the fey work and can take advantage of avoiding that routine each time they show up. Conversely, Myann being here means they show up more, so it's something of a cycle.

I really liked the Emperor bit since I got to shine with stealth. The chest-carnival was neat and I won't mind seeing some sort of reprise when it's regenerated. Johann's tower? I honestly would've preferred it to have been an underground dungeon or even a standard tower. Flying and invisible just feels to big a reach.

Yeah, I don't agree about Johann's tower but I completely understand where you're coming from. I wanted his tower to be a bit alien and a lot crazy - it would underscore what he was, make for a memorable experience and finally provide a different dungeon. An underground dungeon felt repetitive since you had done the Emperor thing recently and a mere tower felt...mmm. It just didn't feel right without some extra pizazz.

In regards to the increasing bonuses to things for doing things, I feel like I really lost out by having Porridge die and having to start from scratch with John. Also I kinda wish I'd rolled something more interesting/versatile than a monk/rogue. The whole 'alltheattacks' conceit was fun to start, but it's pretty shallow.

Agreed here. I do feel like you need a little more meat to your proverbial bones. I think you've fallen into the full-attack trap. You need those and in specific circumstances to function. Feather avoids that with minor spellcasting and a useful mobility game. The rest of what you have doesn't really provide that. Invisibility helps a lot, but I don't quite feel you're all there compared to the other PCs.

Do you think some retraining would help, as would otherwise tinkering things? What would an ideal solution to your situation be?

[Ebiris]

I dunno. I could take that tashalatora feat to combo monk+psychic warrior, but that would just get me a couple of levels ahead on powers and a couple behind on bab. Also I think combo-class things were banned? I could probably do more damage if I used unarmed strikes instead of the staff, but I much prefer the feel of the staff. Likewise if I was high int I could maybe swap out rogue for something like lurk, but I like John's low int personality.

I kinda wish I'd played a full caster so I could opt out of the damage race and be useful in other ways.

[Anastasia]

Hmm. That would take a fairly radical rebuild or new character. I mean, we can do that if you feel that's what you want. Is it?

[Ebiris]

Not really I was just answering the question on what could work. It's making the best of a bad lot.

[Anastasia]

Okay then. I'll bear that in mind for boosters you get coming up.

[Corwin]

1. How's your build working? Any mechanical issues or things you'd like to rectify?

It was doing okay, although fairly uneven (close to useless in one fight, soloing everything the next). I figured I wanted more options and switched to TWF, so we'll see how that works.

2. In what ways is your build effective? Are you happy with how it's effective?

It'd be a lot more effective with various Skirmish exploits, like items or powers that let you move an extra 5ft or whichever to trigger it. Also, the usual disappointment with all the uncrittable losers who are immune to precision damage. I wish there was a way to figure out how to dish that out.

3. The world is fairly layered. Some of it's worked well (kobolds, general underground), some not so much (stratum). What do you all think? I'm trying to mix up the world and generally experimenting.

I just prefer to think of it as a single world and ignore the upper/lower levels thing. The kobolds are pretty much our redneck cousins, as far as I'm concerned.

4. Myann's ended up as the fourth in the party. This wasn't truly designed as much as it sort of happened. To be honest, it's easier for me after B3 to just run one NPC for general ally aid. Do you feel she's pulling her weight without hogging the spotlight from you all? The way it worked out with her being a fey is dicey there, especially when the fey call the party her court or minions. (Even if she clearly disapproves of that assumption.) On one hand, it lets you deal with the fey in a radically different way without a PC being saddled with the problems fey powers bring. On the other hand, it draws a lot of attention to her. What do you all think?

I wish Hylath got more screentime. I had hopes of training him and seeing how he grows. I don't really care about the court thing, since I just figure whatever the fey think doesn't affect any of us unless we let it.

5. What have you thought of the last few dungeon scenarios? Say from the hunt for the Emperor on. I've been trying for each one to have a different feel.

I'm glad there was a way to resolve things without killing everyone!

[Anastasia]

I dunno. I could take that tashalatora feat to combo monk+psychic warrior, but that would just get me a couple of levels ahead on powers and a couple behind on bab. Also I think combo-class things were banned? I could probably do more damage if I used unarmed strikes instead of the staff, but I much prefer the feel of the staff. Likewise if I was high int I could maybe swap out rogue for something like lurk, but I like John's low int personality.

Quoting this since I forgot to answer the question. Class combiners are generally banned. If it offers something worthwhile (such as swift hunter's skirmish on the immune), you can take the feat to get that part but not the class stacking. Tashalatora would be pointless since all it has is straight class stacking.

Now to Cor's post.

It was doing okay, although fairly uneven (close to useless in one fight, soloing everything the next). I figured I wanted more options and switched to TWF, so we'll see how that works.

I noticed you tended to be up and down lately, yeah. I think some of it's fluky luck, which you've had your share of lately. But I don't disagree with you, either.

It'd be a lot more effective with various Skirmish exploits, like items or powers that let you move an extra 5ft or whichever to trigger it. Also, the usual disappointment with all the uncrittable losers who are immune to precision damage. I wish there was a way to figure out how to dish that out.

Some sort of skirmish-style penetrating strike option isn't a bad idea, if you feel homebrew-y. I've been toying with that awhile, since otherwise skirmish builds skew towards swift hunter.

I just prefer to think of it as a single world and ignore the upper/lower levels thing. The kobolds are pretty much our redneck cousins, as far as I'm concerned.

That's a much more accurate way of looking at the world than thinking of the higher/lower kingdoms as planes.

Also, the redneck comparison is awesome and made me laugh. Awesome.

I wish Hylath got more screentime. I had hopes of training him and seeing how he grows.

That one's mostly on me, I suspect. Y'all running around to dungeon after dungeon's neglected the home front somewhat, but I'm finding myself drawn to keeping the NPC cast down. Probably more B3 hangover than anything else. This game is marvelously low prep (compared to B3) and I've noticed I tend to keep it that way without even meaning to.

I'll see about bringing him up some more once you get back. That dance is coming up the next day in IC time.

I don't really care about the court thing, since I just figure whatever the fey think doesn't affect any of us unless we let it.

Wise enough there, unless they're forcing the issue. Y'all are powerful and connected enough to get away with that.

I'm glad there was a way to resolve things without killing everyone!

Which dungeon is that? The Emperor one?

[Anastasia]

I'm bumping this thread for one last bit of feedback. This will be freeform and optional. I'd like all of you to answer it, but if not that's okay too.

So what do you all think of Vastwoods on the whole?

What worked in this game for you?

What didn't work in this game for you?

[Nephrite]

So what do you all think of Vastwoods on the whole?

I enjoyed it. I felt like we didn't really explore that much of the realm, just a very small percentage. But the part we explored I enjoyed a lot.

What worked in this game for you?

I think pursuant to the top point, I wanted to explore more of the Vastwoods. For me, I'd be completely okay if we just continued on from this point and found other things to do, for reference.

I think the fey in general worked out really well. They were a focal point without taking up the entire story all the time. We all had our encounters in a variety of ways and ended up with various opinions on them and how to approach them.

Eventually I came into my own in terms of build and I enjoyed that. I liked being able to fill gaps that the party lacked while not really doing so in an overpowered or overwhelming way.



What didn't work in this game for you?

My build felt really weak at the very start, but that was my own fault. Shapeshift seems really underwhelming in general if you have something like Monk that you can use to sort of bypass its attacks, but that isn't really your fault or your problem to deal with.

We met some people whose stories never really went anywhere, and I wish they had. The Raptorians in general didn't seem to have much impact on the game, but perhaps that was by design? I know the Orc stuff got put on hold because of Porridge and that's fine.

I'm not entirely sure we ever really understood what was up with that dragon. Was he driven mad by the fey? Was he just an asshole? Who knows!

I don't know if it really counts as a negative if I still want to know more about people we had interactions with. It probably shouldn't count as negative, ultimately.

[Anastasia]

So what do you all think of Vastwoods on the whole?

I enjoyed it. I felt like we didn't really explore that much of the realm, just a very small percentage. But the part we explored I enjoyed a lot.

That's good. I kept the focus local while showing hints of the world beyond the Vastwoods. There's a lot out there, but most of it wasn't directly relevant to this game.

What worked in this game for you?

I think pursuant to the top point, I wanted to explore more of the Vastwoods. For me, I'd be completely okay if we just continued on from this point and found other things to do, for reference.

Agreed, except I don't have it in me right now. Unlike Balmuria, this isn't a setting I can run constantly and keep building on. It's a good one to come back to, but right now I don't have another run here in me.

I think the fey in general worked out really well. They were a focal point without taking up the entire story all the time. We all had our encounters in a variety of ways and ended up with various opinions on them and how to approach them.

Yeah, pretty much. I'm happy with how they worked out in the story. They always had impact and never felt played out, which is a great sign.

Eventually I came into my own in terms of build and I enjoyed that. I liked being able to fill gaps that the party lacked while not really doing so in an overpowered or overwhelming way.

Cool. It's nice when a build comes together. You covered a lot of minor things well, provided back up healing and situational spellcasting. That's an important niche to fill in a group.

What didn't work in this game for you?

My build felt really weak at the very start, but that was my own fault. Shapeshift seems really underwhelming in general if you have something like Monk that you can use to sort of bypass its attacks, but that isn't really your fault or your problem to deal with.

Shapeshift isn't that good until the third form. The second one has useful utility, but it's still not a world beater. It picks up from there, especially if you have anything to back up the higher forms.

We met some people whose stories never really went anywhere, and I wish they had. The Raptorians in general didn't seem to have much impact on the game, but perhaps that was by design? I know the Orc stuff got put on hold because of Porridge and that's fine.

The raptorians just never got a foothold in. They might've played more of a role in other routes, but ultimately I could've excised them from the setting. It happens, sometimes things you plan out aren't used.

I'm not entirely sure we ever really understood what was up with that dragon. Was he driven mad by the fey? Was he just an asshole? Who knows!

The white dragon? He was an asshole is the long and short of it. There's a bit more, but that's the gist of it.

I don't know if it really counts as a negative if I still want to know more about people we had interactions with. It probably shouldn't count as negative, ultimately.

I can't blame you. I didn't go deep into character work in this one - the story was really about the world more than the characters who live in it. If you want to blame anything, blame B3's hangover. Which I'm totally over now, by the way.

[Ebiris]

What worked in this game for you?

It was a neat setting of exploration and horror that kept things fairly grounded. I liked that we went on our major quest just because we wanted the fey to be cuter/nicer rather than having any big world-in-peril impetus. I liked the mundane dangers that filled the forest, which kept it dangerous while still being fairly low-key. The mysterious and creepy fey realm was a nice counterpoint to the regular forest, too.

What didn't work in this game for you?

While building up the village was a cool concept, it never actually panned out -  we didn't really have to work at it much and we never saw much coming out of the stuff we did do, like the trading post. Aside from Myann the NPC stuff was pretty shallow - I get that a break was needed after B3, but I'd like to go back to at least a B1 or B2 level of interaction with NPCs in a future game.