The big one: Character discussions!

[Bean Bandit]

Hmm.

Makoto didn't spend too much time pondering Jadeite as a human being. He was a monstrous force of nature. Something had to be done, and it was up to them.

Also, in all honesty, it sounds arrogant, but the idea that they COULDN'T stop him never really lodged in her head. It was all a matter of attacking the problem in steps. Finding out weak points, and levering on them to get more and more out of each position of strength, no matter how minor.

In a really perverse way, I'm kind of sorry Jadeite didn't manage to get his hands on Makoto. It would have changed her emotional perspective on him. The only thing he really did that got under her skin was cause Kitara's long, lonely vigil guarding the crystal shard in a form that wasn't hers. That was the first crack, but it never really had time to sink in.

Essentially, Makoto's whole emotional take on the whole thing was like a human facing down a tropical storm. Take the necessary precautions, and fight!

Unfortunately, beyond that, and the vague sense of loss she felt for Dei, his story didn't move her much.

[Anastasia]

Hmm.

Makoto didn't spend too much time pondering Jadeite as a human being. He was a monstrous force of nature. Something had to be done, and it was up to them.

Also, in all honesty, it sounds arrogant, but the idea that they COULDN'T stop him never really lodged in her head. It was all a matter of attacking the problem in steps. Finding out weak points, and levering on them to get more and more out of each position of strength, no matter how minor.

In a really perverse way, I'm kind of sorry Jadeite didn't manage to get his hands on Makoto. It would have changed her emotional perspective on him. The only thing he really did that got under her skin was cause Kitara's long, lonely vigil guarding the crystal shard in a form that wasn't hers. That was the first crack, but it never really had time to sink in.

Essentially, Makoto's whole emotional take on the whole thing was like a human facing down a tropical storm. Take the necessary precautions, and fight!

Unfortunately, beyond that, and the vague sense of loss she felt for Dei, his story didn't move her much.

Yeah. That's my one regret about him - I didn't get to do as much with his past as I wanted to. This is part of why saving him didn't come up strongly; circumstances never quite worked out to it. I agree - some more work with Makoto and Jadeite could've been most fascinating, and I still have the image of Makoto smiling tearfully in the darkness and calling him Father.

It does work, in a lot of ways, he was like a storm as you said.

[Ebiris]

Jadeite stuff

Oooh, Jadeite... where to start?

Hmm. Well, for the longest time, he was something of your generic evil villian. Can't be helped considering we only heard of him through his agents, and very little at that. Seeing the sorts he encouraged, like Arieta and Kensuke, while trying to have Nior killed, managed to play up that he wasn't a nice guy, but we already knew that, right? Nice guys don't invade other planets to steal sweet sweet life energy from schoolgirls.

I think the first time we actually interacted with him was when he left his invitation to visit Gaia, along with a brief glimpse of the Princess. That was easy to write off as a bluff for a variety of reasons (some of them involving metagaming - we all knew the Moon Princess was safe on Earth and ignorant of her true nature, right?!). So I guess when the truth came out, it helped to sell Jadeite as someone who really doesn't fool around. (But then he never killed Nior... still, we didn't actually know that for sure until right at the end)

Still, bluff or not, it made his nastiness a bit more personal. But still he remained far away on Gaia... Balder helped us learn more about Jadeite, and none of it good. Considering how much punishment he'd taken from us, and how much he'd dished out, when Balder repeatedly emphasised without a hint of pride how easily Jadeite could ignore his attacks and take him down, it made Usagi worry. Nonetheless, one must be optimistic, which is something Usagi worked on quite hard - also matched with a strong determination to bring him to justice for his crimes.

While Usagi could forgive Balder and the subordinate youma for their sins, in her mind Jadeite was beyond such. Had he thrown himself at her mercy and begged forgiveness and a chance to mend his ways, she'd have taken it, but the thought was never given any serious consideration, and she didn't see any point in pursuing it by giving him a chance which he could just as easily use to get past her guard and kill her. It was clear from the others that they'd had their misplaced sense of loyalty abused by Jadeite, and even in Balder's case, his own hatred had merely been another string for Jadeite to manipulate him by, Jadeite himself had no one to answer to - all the pain and suffering started and ended with him, and the stakes were far too high to play around with two planets on the line.

As time went by on Earth, Usagi had occassion to grow more confident in defeating Jadeite, as well. In purifying Eleni and reforging Beck's sword, she proved able to quite handily deflect his attacks on her, giving her reason to believe that when the final confrontation arrived, she wouldn't be quite so outmatched as Balder believed. Even when Ikkuko was possessed, that was more a result of Usagi being sloppy than anything else.

It never quite occured to her just how much sending one's will between worlds could dilute its force until they encountered Jadeite in person for the first time at the bridge between Earth and Gaia. When he arrived to confront them at the gateway to Gaia, she even allowed herself a moment to think that they could end things right there and then.

The short battle that followed did much to enlighten her.

As an aside, I find it interesting how we tend to suck in 'disorganised' battles, despite us suffering no mechanical deficiency compared to forewarned battles - we still had all the same stats and abilities, yet for whatever reason the tide just seems to favour the enemy, while at times when we plan it out in advance, despite not doing much more than hurling attacks as normal, things seem to fall into place so easily. Anyway, it's an odd observation I've noticed throughout this game and the last (Hi, Oxyite!), and not really relevant to this discussion.

Anyway, the group's broken up and defeated arrival on Gaia did much to dampen Usagi's usual confidence. Being utterly helpless while her friends were at the mercy of the Agency's regime in the capital, or threatened by Jadeite himself in the wilderness, only made things worse. Usagi might have truly been broken if not for that miracle save that brought Hotaru and the others to Miro's house.

That save at least gave her the will to continue in the face of seemingly impossible odds while she learned the history of Gaia. Truth be told, I rather liked my theory that Jadeite had planned the whole Agency thing, wanting Gaia to suffer in the eternal grip of war until he saw the time as right to consolidate power, and had Dei killed as an obstacle to his goals. It fit so well with everything we'd heard of him so far - even Beck's odd comment about outspoken Agency officials being silenced helped it all add up.

It says a lot about how well developed Jadeite was that we could concoct a fully realised and believable set of motivations for him, which could then be peeled away to reveal we were completely on the wrong track. Like an onion, the man was!

Finding out the truth about Dei, especially after all of Jun's comments about how she reminded him of the 'deceased' Prince really stung Usagi. There were a lot of conflicting feelings there, not helped by her wonderings on just what point Jun had been trying to make on her. In the end, she took the lesson that he was warning her that even the purest soul can fall from grace, retaining her resolve that Jadeite simply had to be defeated for the good of Earth and Gaia, and there was no way she'd ever be able to get through to him - she'd killed before, so why not again? He'd lowered himself far more than any of the poor misguided youma she'd been forced to kill in the past, so it's not like this is any worse, right? Certainly, the evidence of Princess Serenity, the sad state of Gaia under the Agency's rule, and his horrible deal with the Beast Lord all pointed to a soul beyond any redemption she could provide.

So, unlike all the youma who she slew in the course of a fierce battle with no thought beyond surviving the next attack in her head, Usagi came to the sollemn realisation that Jadeite, even after all the circumstances were taken into account, had to die.

Probably the most pragmatic decision she had ever had to make, but one she can live with. And so can Earth and Gaia.

[Anastasia]

As an aside, I find it interesting how we tend to suck in 'disorganised' battles, despite us suffering no mechanical deficiency compared to forewarned battles - we still had all the same stats and abilities, yet for whatever reason the tide just seems to favour the enemy, while at times when we plan it out in advance, despite not doing much more than hurling attacks as normal, things seem to fall into place so easily. Anyway, it's an odd observation I've noticed throughout this game and the last (Hi, Oxyite!), and not really relevant to this discussion.

Replying to this first since it's a tangent.

That is interesting, isn't it? I've noticed that myself at times - maybe it's just selective memory and dumb luck talking, but it's a fascinating point. The Sailor team that plans together lives to make sweet yuri together? Either that or it's karma, whichever you prefer.

[Anastasia]

Oooh, Jadeite... where to start?

Hmm. Well, for the longest time, he was something of your generic evil villian. Can't be helped considering we only heard of him through his agents, and very little at that. Seeing the sorts he encouraged, like Arieta and Kensuke, while trying to have Nior killed, managed to play up that he wasn't a nice guy, but we already knew that, right? Nice guys don't invade other planets to steal sweet sweet life energy from schoolgirls.

Pretty much. This was phase one - set him up just as that. The format worked smashingly, as well as your own mental tendencies.

I think the first time we actually interacted with him was when he left his invitation to visit Gaia, along with a brief glimpse of the Princess. That was easy to write off as a bluff for a variety of reasons (some of them involving metagaming - we all knew the Moon Princess was safe on Earth and ignorant of her true nature, right?!). So I guess when the truth came out, it helped to sell Jadeite as someone who really doesn't fool around. (But then he never killed Nior... still, we didn't actually know that for sure until right at the end)

Yes. I freely admit I used some of your IC and OOC tendencies to play up Jadeite in the long run. As I recall the image of the Princess was an illusion relatively, but he still had her.  I liked how hard you girls bit on it at first.

As for the latter? Nior was useful to him alive throughout Gaia. A chip to use against the Sailors at least once, and he was plotting to use him again. It's a shame his first gambit with him failed.

Still, bluff or not, it made his nastiness a bit more personal. But still he remained far away on Gaia... Balder helped us learn more about Jadeite, and none of it good. Considering how much punishment he'd taken from us, and how much he'd dished out, when Balder repeatedly emphasised without a hint of pride how easily Jadeite could ignore his attacks and take him down, it made Usagi worry. Nonetheless, one must be optimistic, which is something Usagi worked on quite hard - also matched with a strong determination to bring him to justice for his crimes.

Phase 2 - more direct reports and scenes. Build him up as something more sinister while still having him be far away. Bolstering PC confidence on the side helps.

While Usagi could forgive Balder and the subordinate youma for their sins, in her mind Jadeite was beyond such. Had he thrown himself at her mercy and begged forgiveness and a chance to mend his ways, she'd have taken it, but the thought was never given any serious consideration, and she didn't see any point in pursuing it by giving him a chance which he could just as easily use to get past her guard and kill her. It was clear from the others that they'd had their misplaced sense of loyalty abused by Jadeite, and even in Balder's case, his own hatred had merely been another string for Jadeite to manipulate him by, Jadeite himself had no one to answer to - all the pain and suffering started and ended with him, and the stakes were far too high to play around with two planets on the line.

Interesting mental process here. Usagi had to consider this - as she was the one who was given the power of purification - and made her choice. I think this highlights a very important but not played up aspect of Usagi, the willingness to do these things and the responsibility to do just that.

As time went by on Earth, Usagi had occassion to grow more confident in defeating Jadeite, as well. In purifying Eleni and reforging Beck's sword, she proved able to quite handily deflect his attacks on her, giving her reason to believe that when the final confrontation arrived, she wouldn't be quite so outmatched as Balder believed. Even when Ikkuko was possessed, that was more a result of Usagi being sloppy than anything else.

It never quite occured to her just how much sending one's will between worlds could dilute its force until they encountered Jadeite in person for the first time at the bridge between Earth and Gaia. When he arrived to confront them at the gateway to Gaia, she even allowed herself a moment to think that they could end things right there and then.

The short battle that followed did much to enlighten her.

Usagi-chan, do you remember expressing to me in PM you were afraid you'd ice Jadeite then and there, huh? I must admit I had a spectacularly refreshing Evil GM Laugh.

Anyway.

Phase 3 - lowering the boom on Gaia. I think it stands for yourself now; you looked into the darkness and it kicked back hard! You hit on it and know much more about it now - going to and from worlds is far from an easy task. The fact that Jadeite could create an object to do this, could do it himself, could -possess- a body on Earth is frightening in it's raw scope of power. Of course you didn't really know that at the time, did you?

Anyway, the group's broken up and defeated arrival on Gaia did much to dampen Usagi's usual confidence. Being utterly helpless while her friends were at the mercy of the Agency's regime in the capital, or threatened by Jadeite himself in the wilderness, only made things worse. Usagi might have truly been broken if not for that miracle save that brought Hotaru and the others to Miro's house.

That save at least gave her the will to continue in the face of seemingly impossible odds while she learned the history of Gaia. Truth be told, I rather liked my theory that Jadeite had planned the whole Agency thing, wanting Gaia to suffer in the eternal grip of war until he saw the time as right to consolidate power, and had Dei killed as an obstacle to his goals. It fit so well with everything we'd heard of him so far - even Beck's odd comment about outspoken Agency officials being silenced helped it all add up.

It was nice - he worked on so many possible levels. While I admit Occam's Razor would have a fuckin' field day with Jadeite, it only underscores one of the themes. Someone like Jadeite has to always have been this way, right? There's no way a decent person could ever have been underneath it all?

It says a lot about how well developed Jadeite was that we could concoct a fully realised and believable set of motivations for him, which could then be peeled away to reveal we were completely on the wrong track. Like an onion, the man was!

Oniontaru.

That said? Pretty much. He was meant to work on a lot of levels, and as the game went, it was clear he did.

Finding out the truth about Dei, especially after all of Jun's comments about how she reminded him of the 'deceased' Prince really stung Usagi. There were a lot of conflicting feelings there, not helped by her wonderings on just what point Jun had been trying to make on her. In the end, she took the lesson that he was warning her that even the purest soul can fall from grace, retaining her resolve that Jadeite simply had to be defeated for the good of Earth and Gaia, and there was no way she'd ever be able to get through to him - she'd killed before, so why not again? He'd lowered himself far more than any of the poor misguided youma she'd been forced to kill in the past, so it's not like this is any worse, right? Certainly, the evidence of Princess Serenity, the sad state of Gaia under the Agency's rule, and his horrible deal with the Beast Lord all pointed to a soul beyond any redemption she could provide.

To the first thrust, Jun was Jun. He made his point and gave enough for Usagi to really think it over. He'd be pleased to here her conclusions, as Usagi needed to understand that on her own terms. Jun had no illusions about saving Jadeite, but he knew the other girls had to see that - Usagi in particular, due to the likenesses therein.

Like all the girls, Usagi once again lived up to his expectations, no matter how cryptically executed.

As an aside, I won't hold any of the deaths you had to make against any of you. There was simply no way for any of you to reasonably know at first, and later, you didn't have a choice in many cases.

So, unlike all the youma who she slew in the course of a fierce battle with no thought beyond surviving the next attack in her head, Usagi came to the sollemn realisation that Jadeite, even after all the circumstances were taken into account, had to die.

Probably the most pragmatic decision she had ever had to make, but one she can live with. And so can Earth and Gaia.

Pretty much. Coming to that conclusion I'd call a defining moment in Usagi's case, since so much of her was light and saving people for a good part of the game.