Game Rules (Expanding always)

[Dracos]

Recovering manuevers with the 5 minute retrain: You can do.

Recover manuevers in the middle of a pitched battle: Eh, it makes the concept of a limited number of them kind of pointless.  Most battles don't go on long enough to use 5-6 unique moves as it stands.

Multiple instances of the same manuever may be prepared.

Yes, I'm making it more spell like, but I feel it's spell like enough as is and it gets the advantage of quick recovery (it's martial spells can be used every battle, all of them that are prepared) that the extra step to 'recover instantly'.

Warblades are already pretty much better fighters with significant power and their stances even after their manuevers are expended, so I dunno if it's really needed to balance to give them more.  They're also significantly better pure fighters than swordsages as equal level, so I dunno if they really need to match the more estoric class there.

Thoughts back?

[Carthrat]

I vastly prefer one instance prepared, with recharging. That gives more impetus to use a variety of techniques, rather than simply loading up on the most powerful you've got. It kinda overpowers swordsages compared to warblades.

Really, I say we just take them as-written and see how things go. A playtest, if you will. And if you have to balance things, make other people more awesome, rather than us lesser.

[Merc]

If you remove all manuevers from the classes, then yeah, I do think the warblade is a bit better than the swordsage. But when you include them, given that swordsages of equal level at any given time tend to have twice the selection of manuevers, 1-2 more stances, and can ready a good couple more manuevers?

Swordsages are supposed to get more flexibility in the usage of manuevers, while warblades are supposed to be able to be good at what they use so they can more easily use them again.

I think if you want to remove the refresh, then make it so the warblade is the class that can ready a manuever more than once, while the swordsage is the class that gets variety but can only select any manuever once, or something like that.

Or maybe they can refresh, but it's more limited than it is now, like they select one manuever from their manuevers readied, and it's only that one manuever that they can choose to refresh regularly, while all others get spent as usual.

I dunno, I do think that how it's currently doing refreshing can be overkill, and I'd probably not abuse it (I would more than likely have found myself using the refresh option that causes the hero to pose, rather than a swift action as part of a single melee attack), but completely removing it also feels like you're crippling the warblade while only slapping the swordsage in the wrist.

[Carthrat]

Addendum: Yeah, adaptive style IS kinda borked on it's own, though. It really shouldn't give instant renewal of all techniques for one full-round action...

Nor should Warblade be able to recharge so easily. I dunno. Suggestion...

-Warblades can swift action back *one* technique at a time.
-Adaptive Style only lets you switch out manuevers already prepared. You can't use it to regain a manuever that you've already used (i.e. switching out x for y even though you used y this combat already)
-Leave swordsage recovery as-is.

[Merc]

I have no problem with those suggestions.

[Merc]

A request:

Can warblades get their second stance at level 5 as opposed to level 4?

The reason is because stances are available at manuever levels 1, 3, 5, and 8. This means that the new stances become available at levels 1, 5, 9, and 15.

Warblades, however, get stances at levels 1, 4, 10, and 16. This means that they effectively get two level 1 stances, a level 5 stance and a level 8 stance.

The only way to get a level 3 stance is by sacrificing a level 5 or level 8 stance. That kinda sucks.

If warblades get stances at levels 1, 5, 10 and 16 though, they can get a level 1 stance, a level 3 stance, a level 5 stance, and a level 8 stance. Or if they chose to, they could still get two level 1 stances, a level 5 stance and a level 8 stance if it floated their fancy.

[Dracos]

I've no problem there.

BUT, for ease of not remembering:

A warblade may choose not to assign a stance immediately.  Similarly with feats for everyone.  A delay is until next level up, but it's perfectly allowed for providing RP reasonings or something like that, knowing that it's offset by going 1 or more levels without extra abilities.

Dracos