Thoughts on D&D Stats Generation

[Merc]

There's a number of methods on how to handle the generation of stats in D&D, though they generally fall under three styles: Arrays, Rolling Sta, and Point Buy.

Arrays are basically just a set of six scores that everyone uses, but distributes as they wish. The standard array is called the "Elite Array" and consists of scores of 15/14/13/12/10/8 (it's based on the 25 point buy system).

You don't have to stick with this particular array either. For example, I've seen a "Champion Array" that consisted of scores of 18/16/14/12/10/8 (a 38 point buy).

Rolling is, at its core, a system where you roll three six sided dice and add the results, and do this six times before distributing the results onto your stats. Variants include rolling more then three dice and dropping the lowest scores up to three dice, not getting to select distribution of results, rerolling individual or array results, etc.

Most of the D&D games here in SR seem to favor the 6#4d6L1 system, with two rolls of this and picking the best resulting array.

The standard Point Buy system is to start with all stats at 8 and distribute 25 points over the six stats, with each score progressively growing in cost. It has variations like cost not increasing as the score increases or different amounts of points or even starting from a different stat point than 8.

Drac, for example, uses a combination of all the point buy variants for Alruneza, with an 80 point buy from 0 system, with no increased cost to go to a high stat score.

Pros/Cons:
Arrays insure that all the players start on an equal footing and has the least possibility of ridiculous min/maxing, but is also the most limiting, since there are only so many ways to distribute arrayed stats (admittedly, a great deal, at 720 possible distributions).

Point Buy is basically a slightly more organic form of arrays, since everyone still starts with the same number of points to distribute, although they get a vastly larger amount of freedom on how to distribute their points.

It can, however, lead to a bad case of 'min/maxing', which is the term for when a player keeps some stats at the bare minimum and makes those their 'dump' stats, while maximizing the rest.

Rolling allows for much more organic/random distributions, but at the same time also can cause serious inbalance between player rolls, where someone has something like 18/18/17/16/15/13, while another player has a 16/13/11/9/9/8.

If converting player scores into standard point buy scores, it's not rare to see someone having rolled scores that would have cost as much as 20 points more on a point buy system. On the other hand, most GMs will also try to make sure that rolls are never so ridiculously far apart either.

For example, in Rat's game when rolling for a new character after my previous one died, I had a very bad rolling result when compared to the other players despite rolling twice. He allowed me to roll a third time, and got a result much better than the others, and he then penalized the stats a bit to get them more balanced.

In addition to this, with rolling you can only min/max within the range of your rolled results, much as with an array.

Both arrays and point-buy do have one more bonus though that can be good for both the GM and players. Neither of these two systems require the player supervision that rolling does, as the GM can merely post the guidelines and then let the players loose to generate their characters as they wish. With rolling, the GM will generally want to be present so they can ensure that results don't come out unbalanced from one player to the next and so that nobody claims to have something ridiculous such as 18/18/18/18/18/18 stats (not impossible, but -highly- improbable at 8.1E-9 percent chance).

***

Overall, while I do think all three styles have their charm, I do prefer the more organic and random feel of rolling, despite the hazards one can face with it.

For further discussion:
What do the rest of you prefer in regards to stat generation?
What are your opinions on their pros/cons? Anything to add or disagree with regarding what's been said?
Do you know of other ways to handle stat generation besides the ones listed above? If so, what are their pros and cons?

[Dracos]

I tend to prefer, as seen, my varient 80 point buy or 5d6drop 2.  Namingly as they make better epic games and really, that gets a slightly higher statistical average.


The primary reason for both those preferences  really comes down to if I'm going to use a system at all, I often prefer players to have fair go of it.  Usually players have characters in mind before  they start rolling that they want to play given the setting and basic plot hook.  I've seen plenty of times where this either becomes a case of 'doesn't work' or becomes notably more powerful than it was intended by roll of the die.  It can still have  the latter  and the former with point buy, but I think it's far more in the spirit of character designing rather than character generating, and I like that sense of it.

I'd add more but lazy/sleepy =)

Dracos

[Carthrat]

I'm getting leery of the whole 'high stats = epic games' thing with D&D, because...

...it doesn't, really. I didn't feel Weekly was particularly epic owing to high stats, for instance.

In 3e, the problem is excaberated by the way some balance issues practically hinge on the 'average stat distribution' (even though we balance is a joke), with some classes being significantly more uber than others.

In any case, I'm looking at other systems, after BF. I'm starting to muchly prefer others, where your 'initial base stats' are just one more place where you can sink character points, rather than the *only* place.

[Dracos]

I hear that.  So...Exalted then =P

anyhow, you're absolutely right there, but it doesn't get 'epic' in the sense of epic struggles, so much as 'look, we can reasonably take down things we shouldn't because our stats are heroically high'.  Poor word choice probably.

Dracos

[Carthrat]

Exalted is epic for MANY reasons. >_>

[Rezantis]

There's just something cool about, when you pull out your epic ubercombo, rolling thirty-plus dice for your damage roll.

Everyone -knows- this one's gonna hurt. :)

[Carthrat]

HGD'D!

[Anastasia]

I prefer rolling as a rule. It's nice to have some random variance in it, but maybe I'm just old school. The 4d6, reroll once and suit to taste method works best for me.

No comments on the other stuff.

[Bjorn]

There's really only one stat generation system that isn't prone to min-maxing, and that's what 2nd Edition called "Method I" -- 3d6, in order, no rerolls.  Even then, you can technically min-maxing by choosing the class that best fits your stats.

I don't like the array system.  While there's technically a huge number of potential combinations, in practice, once you've picked your class, there's really only a small handful of stat allocations that make sense, and the difference between them tends to be irrelvant fluff.

Personally, my preference is for the point-buy system.  In the end, gaming is about making a character that you like.  With the point-buy system, you get to make what you want, and frankly, that's nice.  It can be fun to deal with the challenge of random stats, but when you get down to it, Method V (4d6, drop lowest, allocate at will) is frankly just a half-assed substitute for a point-based system.  It lets you sort of make the character you want.  If you were lucky.

If you are going to go with a random-roll system, though, I have to say that after doing a bit of math (I am a geek), I'm actually in favour of Drac's 5d6 system.  It's not that it gives higher scores on average (though it does; the median stat is 14 instead of 12); the key, for me, is that it makes it really unlikely to get stats less than 8 (roughly 2% chance the stat will be 8 or less and it drops off really fast from there).  Sub-9 stats are, for me, frankly unheroic.  If a player *wants* to take them, that's fine, but no one should ever be forced to play a crippled hero because of a roll of the dice.

[Dracos]

I am pleased someone else did the math =)  I'm a geek too and the mathematical distribution there is exactly why I like it.

Dracos