The goal of this thread is to discuss how the story's going to work. Related questions and discussions will go here.
Okay, I'll start this off. So as far as I understand, our story idea is still fairly vague. Brian, if you're writing the main path up to the pathsplit, have you decided on more details?
Indeed I have -- based on KL's argument of 'why bother with decisions if theres' only one decision node' I've reconsidered and come up with a proposal I'd like to see what everyone else thinks of. We came up with the alternative of a single main storyline with (effectively) multiple exits, which runs the risk of favoritism, arc fatigue, etc.
So, new design (proposed, if everyone's cool with it):
We will have a relatively short base path before the first decision tree. At that point, the story diverges into an A and B path and (for example) this will be where you chose your tone/genre. The reasoning for the split can be as simple as a kidnapping (as Jon notes, the Ranma canon does give us plenty of A Challenger Appears to draw from), or a fight or something else -- the point is, Ranma has to choose between two of his potential matchups, and two of his other potential matchups.
From there, further along the A/B paths, we will have a chance to build up relationships between Ranma (the player) and the girls in that path until he reaches a secondary decision tree (C/D and E/F) for the remaining branches. So, prime, A/B, C/D, and E/F.
While this may seem daunting, it's actually less workload for me (personally) provided even so much as one other person is willing to work on those paths. Thoughts?
I'm fine with it, I think. It's more complicated but it does give more flexibility.
Do you have someone lined up to be the other writer yet?
To clarify: Path A has the C/D split and path B has the E/F split?
Muphrid: That is correct.
Given the new approach, we'll have six content areas instead of five. So far, I don't think anyone else has committed to be a writer (unless I missed it?), but that's probably because we haven't firmly established what needs to be written. Still, if we're agreed on this simple/branching mechanic (which gives a total of three 'meaninfgul' decisions hubs, only two of which are reachable per playthrough), then we can move on to story content, since that's going to be connected.
The 'prime' segment, which is everything leading up to the first decision tree, should be short enough to play as an introduction, give the players a few (probably no more than three?) of our 'false or flavor' choices, and properly set the stage so that they know when they have to choose, they're committed to whichever girls they're running after.
So, since this is going to be part of the setup for the primary path. A/B paths, which girl goes where, how do we set the tones?
Suggestions/other questions?
Looking back in the big thread, some of the ideas being tossed around were like these:
Akane - straight romance path
Ukyo - family drama?
Kodachi - Lovecraftian horror?
And I swear someone said the Shampoo path could be something like a more action-oriented path, but I can't place it. Going with all those, then, I feel like Akane and Shampoo could go together in a branch (being a more traditional expansion of the series) while Ukyo and Kodachi would represent a branch that's a bit more divergent. On the other hand, it might be appealing to mix and match those...or it could be those groupings I've come up with don't make any real sense anyway.
Alternatively, I approached the above as what would distinguish those branches based on how they feel or what genres they visit, but that doesn't address the storyline reason for them to be divergent. If there is, say, a caravan of Martial Arts Tiddlywinkers, the main divergence could be between confronting them or avoiding them? Responding to a challenge straight-up versus some more...creative means? I could definitely see enlisting, say, Kodachi's help as resulting in very creative ways to meet or defeat a challenger, so maybe there's some traction there that can be picked up or modified.
Well, that's an option, too. For theme purposes, I had been thinking more that Shampoo and Kodachi sharing a branch before their split, and Ukyou/Akane being another.
The idea being that (maybe) Ranma's choice on that path is either to take a stand (Akane) or make a break for it (Ukyou). Just as an example. I'm starting to think that the structure and story ideas are linked, so let's see what general ideas everyone is cool with for the base story -- beyond our basic idea of 'Ranma is pressured to pick someone by the end of the day to meet Nodoka'.
Honestly, that grouping was what came to mind first for me, too; I kind of thought to avoid it because it seemed...I dunno, too obvious? But it does make a lot of sense.
All right, if we work backward, then the Akane part of that path is to confront things and the Ukyo part is to make a break, like you say. Thinking about what could differentiate that path from the Shampoo/Kodachi branch--maybe the latter are ways Ranma tries to engage in some sort of deception or scam and ends up really buying into it?
QuoteI'm starting to think that the structure and story ideas are linked, so let's see what general ideas everyone is cool with for the base story -- beyond our basic idea of 'Ranma is pressured to pick someone by the end of the day to meet Nodoka'.
Okay, so let's say the meeting isn't just for dinner. Nodoka is
offering something for Ranma and his fiance, as soon as he makes up his mind; something any of them might want. Maybe to take them all on a vacation someplace? An all-expenses-paid weekend stay at a fancy and exclusive hotel? Inheritance of a pair of magical Saotome artifacts? We could vary it between characters; sort of leave the details unspecified during the setup and reveal them later depending on the girl.
Speaking of the girls and how the story differs between them...
Mmm. Having an 'action path' specific to one girl (e.g. Shampoo) doesn't sit well with me, because I expect action to appear in every path. And since virtually every path will deal with romance, having a specific romance path for Akane doesn't click with me either.
Ukyou and Kodachi come easily to me; Lovecraftian horror for Kodachi works, and for Ukyou I actually think some sort of business drama would work pretty well; a story that deals with the issues of single-handedly running a business could be pretty cool. We could bring in hostile yakuza!
I think an Akane or Shampoo path work better if you emphasize the martial-arts background/world somehow, though I'm not exactly sure what to do with them.
Quote from: Carthrat on September 27, 2011, 11:26:36 PMOkay, so let's say the meeting isn't just for dinner. Nodoka is offering something for Ranma and his fiance, as soon as he makes up his mind; something any of them might want. Maybe to take them all on a vacation someplace? An all-expenses-paid weekend stay at a fancy and exclusive hotel? Inheritance of a pair of magical Saotome artifacts? We could vary it between characters; sort of leave the details unspecified during the setup and reveal them later depending on the girl.
We could do that, though leaving it till the end leaves it kind of difficult to get much use out of in the storylines.
Quote from: Carthrat on September 27, 2011, 11:26:36 PMSpeaking of the girls and how the story differs between them...
Mmm. Having an 'action path' specific to one girl (e.g. Shampoo) doesn't sit well with me, because I expect action to appear in every path. And since virtually every path will deal with romance, having a specific romance path for Akane doesn't click with me either.
Er, let's say that the summary dropped the word 'more' -- there was never any suggestion (that I know of) to have Akane's path be a plotline of only romance, no action, etc.
In the above example, putting Akane and Ukyou on the A path (C/D being their individual storylines), then A would contain both the romance and business action elements, focusing on one more than the other after the decision hub (C being 'romance' and D being 'businessey'). So, in the Akane route, the Yakuza are a threat that's just causing trouble in the neighborhood, and then in the Ukyou route, they're hired by some rival business that's trying to drive Ukyou out of business, etc.
Anyway. Beyond that, the themes weren't meant to be limiting; that's all guidelines anyway. We don't at all need to commit to 'every path must be a totally different theme'. In fact, let's just drop that whole 'limited by themes' factor.
Quote from: Carthrat on September 27, 2011, 11:26:36 PMUkyou and Kodachi come easily to me; Lovecraftian horror for Kodachi works, and for Ukyou I actually think some sort of business drama would work pretty well; a story that deals with the issues of single-handedly running a business could be pretty cool. We could bring in hostile yakuza!
I think an Akane or Shampoo path work better if you emphasize the martial-arts background/world somehow, though I'm not exactly sure what to do with them.
I can come up with ideas for those ... does it sound like someone has an idea for an Ukyou storyline, then? ;)
You'd mentioned a desire to place this story between Ryu Kumon's appearance and Ranma/Nodoka reuniting. Assuming you meant the reuniting where she finds out about the curse and is okay with it, there's quite a few events between the stories (Vol 28 to Vol 36).
Between the two stories, things that popped up:
Pink/Link
Akari
Cursed Doll
Rouge
White Lily (Kodachi's rival)
Battle Suit
Age Mushrooms
Mirror Ranma
Konatsu
Post Nodoka/Ranma reuniting:
Saffron
Wedding
Figured I'd toss up mention of that in case you wanted to play around with any of that for plotting time frame.
Something to consider also is that Ranma meets Nodoka again in that span--the bust battle story. After that, Ranma seemed particularly determined to prove himself, so that could be a factor in backstory for this.
Talking about yakuza--I don't know what all is already planned for the pre-branching part of the story, but would it be something like, say...we know Nodoka is dirt poor. Let's say some yakuza are pressuring her on some debts, and they'll accept real payment or, if she can't pay, Ranma's marrying into the family to become part of their operation, so part of choosing a girl is to close that avenue of pressure while instigating other plot-related stuff?
On second thought, I'm kind of going cross-eyed looking at that, trying to make sense of things. And if the main branch has been fleshed out more than I thought, feel free to disregard.
Well, we can actually be really vague about the threat.
Yakuza are in town because:
- Genma sold Ranma to the local gang head's daughter several years ago, and the yaks have come to collect their due.
- Nodoka took a loan out from a 'reputable businessman' who happens to have a grudge against Genma, and because of this, Yakuza have slowly been zeroing in on the Tendo compound....
- Ranma and Ryouga accidentally destroyed a multibillion yen crime ring during one of their brawls; the Yaks won't find 'Hibiki', but if he knows what's good for him, 'Saotome' is going to marry into a new name -- and fast!
- Tendo Soun is behind in paying his 'protection' money. Wait, what? Seriously? Someone's threatining a martial artist in neri-- *looks up at list* Uh, yeah. Soun's fault.
- You know that fanon thing about Nabiki having Yakuza contacts? Well, she read one-too-many-fics, and decided to give it a shot. Too bad we don't have a Nabiki branch.
Okay. I actually really like the Ranma/Ryouga accidentally busted up a crime ring thing. That makes a straightforward opener. We can actually mix-and-match, depending on how we want to play things. For example, we use the 'busted up crime ring' starter, and then say that happened some days before our story starts. Ranma has been laying low and gets a letter that's been rendered partially illegible from Happosai-related antics (probably a happo dai karin).
The letter has enough legible parts to be vague and ominous, Ranma's concerned about the crime ring thing, and then, hmm. How does this compel him to pick someone? If they sent him the letter, they know where he lives.
Okay, wait. Happosai beat up some yaks and got the damaged letter off them when he heard they were looking for Ranma. Happosai has no idea what's going on, but figures it'll be fun to screw with Ranma? Problem is, none of Happosai's motivations lead to Ranma picking a girl. Cologne has a pro-Shampoo bias. Pretty much any other character we can use here does, too.
I guess we could work Hinako in there, somehow, but that's not really in her character, either (except, if she was trying to spite Happi, maybe? That ... could work, especially if we're going the 'Hinako-sensei' comedy options that people were suggesting (they may have been referencing another character/series, I couldn't honestly tell)).
Hmm. The 'Why does Ranma
have to pick?' issue looms large. Ideas? Thoughts?
Opinions?
-Money. Maybe there's some sort of government bonus for newly weds floating about, like on buying a new house or something. Japan has a declining birth rate, after all, so offering incentives for young people to hook up could work! If Nodoka/Soun/Nabiki/Ukyo/??? is getting pressured for cash, this is a legit way to get some fast without any strings attached. Well, aside from the marriage.
-Supernatural impetus. A kami of relationships is sick of how he's screwing around and curses him! If he doesn't make a decision by X time, he will be forever trapped as a girl/he will never again have a relationship (wait, he might like that)/his soup will always be served cold.
-Ranma has recently been seeing a guidance counselor, who has advised him that leaving things hanging and stretching out problems never solves anything; decisive action is required. He takes this to heart.
-The head of the Yakuza is a total sap. If he sees Ranma is truly in love with another girl, he's the sort of guy who'll let him renege on his other obligation. Well, he's the sort of guy who'll let him pay another way, at least.
Does it have to be marriage? Couldn't it start simple, like for a date?
A new threat has come to town; a guy/girl pair who specialize in Martial Arts Dating. A little bit Golden Pair, a lot of bit that one guy Nabiki battled. Ranma breaks up one of their operations and they challenge him formally. He has a week to pick a partner to help him in his upcoming battle. Unfortunately, this challenge was given via HUGE MEGAPHONE so everyone in Nerima knows Ranma is looking for a partner. Maybe the wording of the challenge or Ranma's reply make it seem like something more. So the girls are seriously trying to get him to choose, but Ranma's in Challenge Mode; he doesn't care who his partner is so long as they work together well for the fight.
So the first part is a series of small decisions with all the girls that build their characters and you can 'choose' by focusing on one more than the others. It's all Ranma+girl getting training from Nabiki (The Dating Pair have taken a lot of money from people. Her plan is to get a cut when TeamRanma steals it from them during the Date-off. Plus betting. And making sure they don't wage the house somehow)
The battle happens and you get to choose from the two girls with highest trust. This locks them into the battle and afterward is where you get to do their real story.
Or that might be too complicated.
Okay. Hmm. If we take your premise.... Actually, Panda, that's one of the best ideas I've heard yet. It's a good excuse to get the ball rolling, and the Yakuza can be brought in for hilarity (or not) anywhere along the line.
So, using your idea.... Ranma gets challenged, Nabiki gets involved -- and why not say that because she's upset, and Ranma's (well, _Ranma_), the two of them practice together for a while. It doesn't come up until later that Nabiki can't actually participate (maybe she sprains an ankle, maybe she just finds out that they have a habit of targeting the less martially inclined partner in the matchup). By that point, Akane's really irritated about Ranma spending all that time with Nabiki -- Shampoo and Ukyou aren't exactly thrilled, but are less annoyed than she is (aiming to put them on largely equal footing).
This gives Ranma a reason to pick, but we lose the 'And Ranma's mother is coming' angle.
Well, this scenario lets us play Nabiki off as an advisor-type, too. We can have Nabiki running interference and ... comedy of errors? I dunno, in order to get Nodoka to go away so she can focus on training Ranma to win that match, she somehow lets slip that Ranma 'and his romantic partner' will be (somewhere) that evening? Nodoka runs off, elated that she knows where Ranma's going to be and that she gets to see her.
Nabiki realizes that Ranma may be in trouble, so, um, while you're picking a partner, Ranma ... be prepared to be making longer-term decisions than you may think!
That is a nice premise. It's neat and fits the series well.
Okay, cool. This isn't getting a lot of movement, so instead of letting this stall out, I'm going to say we move forward with this basic idea, unless someone objects.
Just start writing something already. If someone wants to complain, they can complain later on! =p
Yeah. Momentum's important, any progress gives us more to bite into than just ideas and speculation. The hard part of any project is moving past bullshitting and into the hard stuff that requires effort.
I don't like the idea of Ranma being forced to decide. Plot lines with people or events trying to force Ranma to decide are fine, but I feel Ranma should make the choice because he wants to, not because he's forced into it.
I recall a story called "Pick One". Faced with a no-win situation where he couldn't help everyone, Ranma found a way to do it anyway. Ranma's the kind of guy who's even saved people who were recently tried to kill him. If multiple people need cash, Ranma would find a way to help all of them, not just one.
If faced with a curse from a kami, I'd expect Ranma to fight the curse.
The guidance councilor is a possibility, but it feels a bit too real world. And it would be harder to work in action and comedy elements.
Mph. I think we can get around that by not presenting it as Ranma being forced, but an opportunity.
If he CHOOSES someone (and wins the fight), then he'll be in the ideal position to meet his mother! Otherwise, well, he can run away from meeting her, and you know Ranma and challenges. (Assuming we avoid the 'Ranma grabs Ryouga' and solves things that way route, which, I'm pretty sure people were already against earlier. ;))
We just gotta spin it right. And by 'we spin it,' I mean 'Nabiki has money riding on Ranma participating in that fight, and she can't do it herself.'
How's that sound?
Also, I plan on finalizing at least an outline for this by this coming weekend, so if you've got thoughts on this, contribute now~!
Sounds good. Like Panda's idea.
Official outline for trunk-- From origin to the first branch. Regular text is the basics, italics are areas we could possibly expand on to develop the story a little better (I'm settling into doing this at my own pace, since I've realized I'm doing it alone -- with a lot of advice from others (though, that input is appreciated!)).
Our premise is that Nabiki has somehow gotten herself and Ranma ensnared in a couple's Martial Arts Dating competition.
(This would be a good opportunity to tie it specifically into the canon by saying that it happens right after Nabiki has her dating challenge with Kinnosuke (check spelling); in fact, he could have arranged for the couple (possibly relatives?) to challenge Nabiki (and thus, Ranma) because of his loss to her. This seems like a pretty decent point to pin the divergence, considering previous discussion -- before Phoenix Mountain, after the senkens. That plotline ... may not be an option if it takes place after Mother I'm Ranma, which I think in retrospect, it probably does. Kinnosuke still might make an okay cameo in that instance, and one of the couple might be related to him (probably the guy, if we make him a jerk, like Mikado (oh, there we go, the girl is Mikado's sister?))For whatever reason, Nabiki herself can't participate in the competition, though this doesn't come up until that moment (thus prompting the hectic decision). Nabiki really doesn't want to lose this match (she could have money, or maybe just pride on the line).
Reasons for Nabiki not being able to participate?
- A minor injury (sprained ankle or the like)
- She needs to do something else to make the victory meaningful (I dunno, arrange a betting pool, try to counter some underhanded extortion/manipulation scheme) so can't be there herself.
- It just doesn't come up until right at that point that these people have a reputation for seeking out (and crushing) the lesser skilled martial opponent in the past, and Nabiki realizes she can't hold her own against them, so needs someone to stand in for her (though, this can become somewhat sketchy, if Nabiki supports Akane (because she's her sister) as Ranma's partner vs. (for example) encouraging Shampoo/Kodachi because they're more offensive fighters.
- Comedy other option (I dunno ... Nodoka scolds her and says it's not ladylike -- and it's okay for a tomboy like Ranko, or a martial artist like Akane, but Nabiki should sit it out?)
Somehow, things are miscommunicated, or through other (hopefully not too contrived) means, Nodoka finds out that her son is going to be doing something 'incredibly manly' because he's going to be dating some girl --
in a competition. Oh, that's gotta be manly, right?!
In retrospect ... I think a good possible solution is that the foes (gotta come up with good names for them) make public announcements about the challenge -- and Nodoka finds them the same day that Nabiki finds out about the publicity. I think I can see this now; Ranma in the dojo training, Nabiki running in with a bucket of water and splashing him just before Nodoka pops in, super-excited about how she's absolutely going to meet her son tonight! He's way too 'manly' to not show up to the challenge, right? Right? Nabiki's reason for not participating in the fight now becomes more justifiable and in-character: If Ranma's killed for not being manly enough, Nabiki loses the challenge. This gives her a motive to spin things for Nodoka, and also ties Nabiki up with keeping Nodoka distracted.
This can be a recurring thread, actually, with Ranma periodically checking in with Nabiki throughout the day and getting updates on how Nodoka is handling things, and how well Nabiki is preparing her (or trying to) for the reveal. I'm liking this quite a bit, actually. In fact, the idea that Ranma might end up 'comitted' to whoever he dates from this is a very good reason for Nabiki to not want to be Ranma's partner for the match....[/i]
Too busy to do it herself, Nabiki presents players with the first option, which is our (complete) joke option: "Well, Ranma, if you're willing to risk everything and get just any competent fighter, track down Ryouga and do it in girl form!" To which the options are 'No!' and 'HELL no!' (because we've agreed that this is how our story is gonna roll ;D). After that, Nabiki can tell Ranma a bit more seriously, "If you want to win the fight (and you do, because you're Ranma), then you'd better pick a girl to help you with the fight -- just ... keep in mind what it's going to be saying to your mother when you show up _dating_ someone for that fight."
Option: Thus compelled to try and think about things seriously, Nabiki can tell him that he can either go to Furinkan and sound out Ukyou and Akane (both of whom are a bit annoyed with Ranma for all the time he's been spending with Nabiki until that point), or he can just hit up Shampoo or Kodachi for help. (Ah ... Nabiki should probably not think that Kodachi's a serious option, but it'll let the player know what choices they're making here; 'School' is the Ukyou/Akane branch, and 'Skip school' is the Shampoo/Kodachi branch.)
For the purposes of storytelling, I think it'll work to start with Ranma waking up and thinking back on things, finishing with him catching up to the 'present' just as Nabiki runs in ahead of Nodoka with the bucket of water. This can explain that Akane and Ukyou are both a bit miffed, but not (really) pissed off because until that point they were under the impression that it was 'just a date' -- something neither of them are
thrilled about, but will tolerate ... mostly.
Thoughts?
I like this. However, what keeps Nodoka from thinking "Tendo Ranko" would be a great partner for Ranma in this circumstance?
Nothing. Nothing prevents her from thinking that would be a great idea.
To address your point in story:
That item can be added to a list of things that Nabiki has to manage about Nodoka, and is part of why she's not more directly involved in helping Ranma out.
"Nabiki! We were training together! Why aren't you helping me?"
"Ranma, shut up and let me handle this -- unless you want your mom to get the bright idea of trying to make you show up with 'Ranko' for the match. Do you want that?"
"...how would we even--"
"I don't think about it, and neither should you!"
"How could I possibly show up as 'Ranko' and still be me, anyway?"
"Well, you could grab a spare outfit and find Ryouga."
No/HELL no! option loop around to the same dialog:
"Right, so don't stick around, because 'Ranko' needs to lay low for a bit -- and you have seriously got to find a partner before tonight!"
Quote from: Brian on October 09, 2011, 09:57:03 PM
Nothing. Nothing prevents her from thinking that would be a great idea.
To address your point in story:
That item can be added to a list of things that Nabiki has to manage about Nodoka, and is part of why she's not more directly involved in helping Ranma out.
"Nabiki! We were training together! Why aren't you helping me?"
"Ranma, shut up and let me handle this -- unless you want your mom to get the bright idea of trying to make you show up with 'Ranko' for the match. Do you want that?"
"...how would we even--"
"I don't think about it, and neither should you!"
"How could I possibly show up as 'Ranko' and still be me, anyway?"
"Well, you could grab a spare outfit and find Ryouga."
No/HELL no! option loop around to the same dialog:
"Right, so don't stick around, because 'Ranko' needs to lay low for a bit -- and you have seriously got to find a partner before tonight!"
I approve of that scene wholeheartedly. Anyway, I think the base presented there is solid.
Quote from: Brian on October 09, 2011, 09:09:56 PM
For whatever reason, Nabiki herself can't participate in the competition, though this doesn't come up until that moment (thus prompting the hectic decision). Nabiki really doesn't want to lose this match (she could have money, or maybe just pride on the line).
Reasons for Nabiki not being able to participate?
Or you could go the comedy route and play up Nabiki being Nabiki. Rather than some emergency she just decides she doesn't want to do it. Maybe her freinds show up in the middle of training and invite her to a new store/movie/something inconsequintial that's supposed to happen at the same time of the competition.
Nabiki, being the antithesis of the normal Nerima martial artist, decides to drop out right then. Ranma is right there when it happens, but all he manages to get out is "What about the challenge?!"
She just smiles that devil-may-care smile, pats him on the back, and says "Don't worry, Ranma! I'm sure you'll do
just fine."
A stunned Ranma watches as she walks off. Her friends are like "Is this alright?"
Nabiki, showing not the least bit of remorse, replies "Priorities, girls."
And I'm thinking I should redownload mirc so we can talk? At least so you don't feel like your left holding the bag, as it were.
One of the big things I was worried about was how to get Nabiki off the table; this seems to have addressed that (and the Ryoga "option"), so that all seems dandy. That said, I'm not sure what you mean by...
Quote from: Brian on October 09, 2011, 09:09:56 PM (This would be a good opportunity to tie it specifically into the canon by saying that it happens right after Nabiki has her dating challenge with Kinnosuke (check spelling); in fact, he could have arranged for the couple (possibly relatives?) to challenge Nabiki (and thus, Ranma) because of his loss to her. This seems like a pretty decent point to pin the divergence, considering previous discussion -- before Phoenix Mountain, after the senkens. That plotline ... may not be an option if it takes place after Mother I'm Ranma, which I think in retrospect, it probably does. Kinnosuke still might make an okay cameo in that instance, and one of the couple might be related to him (probably the guy, if we make him a jerk, like Mikado (oh, there we go, the girl is Mikado's sister?))
"Mother, I'm Ranma" starts the Umisenken/Yamasenken arc and is the first chapter of 28. The 10-yen battle arc with Kinnosuke is at the end of 29. I'm not sure I understand the timeline dilemma here.
Beyond that point, though, everything seems very sound, and I definitely see a lot of possibilities for writing a branch.
@Panda:
That might be a little too comical.
Plus, I think the idea of different character being guides should you choose the comedy 'bad end' options would be harder to justify as Nabiki.... Well, actually. I could see that working, if Nabiki kept running back from whatever she'd rather be doing to tell Ranma where he screwed up, but ... a little too comedic, I think.
You can join us in IRC any time you want. That wouldn't hurt at all. ;)
@Muphrid:
Eh? I don't think dilemma is the correct word here.
I just didn't remember the order off the top of my head. It would have made a pretty organic point for the story to diverge from, but 'Ranma hasn't properly met his mother yet' is the more critical plot point for us to stick with.
With that, there's probably no reason to bother with Kinnosuke. Using Mikado's sister and whatever boyfriend she manages to bring into the picture should be fine. I'm keeping them vague at the moment, because I'm not sure what will help the story more.
Now that I think of it, didn't Kodachi rope Ranma into something similar against what's-her-name, the White Lily?
Asuka. And Akane even encouraged (nay, demanded) Ranma assist Kodachi.
Right. I really need to read post-forest of giant animals arc Ranma again.
Man, I hated that arc.
Ryugenzawa's pluses were the Orochi and Shinnosuke's grandfather.
But it really felt incredibly lackluster compared to Herb.
For me it was more that the entire arc hinged on Akane not just saying why she went there. She wasn't even doing the 'cannot spit it out' thing or holding back in embarrassment/anger/attempting to make Ranma jealous/whatever. She just carried that idiot ball around like she hoped to score with it.
Worse yet, Ranma was actually trying really hard not to be a jerk. Oddly enough, the arc make me pissed at Akane; this I blame squarely on Takahashi.
Quote from: Brian on October 10, 2011, 02:40:18 AM
Ryugenzawa's pluses were the Orochi and Shinnosuke's grandfather.
But it really felt incredibly lackluster compared to Herb.
Really wish that Herb arc had been animated. Here's to that live-action thing stirring up some interested in
Ranma? Maybe?
Anyway, I was just confused on why you thought the Umi-/Yamasenken arc taking place before would make Kinnosuke being part of the action unworkable, but it's all kind of moot since, on balance, I like the idea of Mikado's sister a bit better, too. I know Takahashi would find some way to give the sister a punny name, but darned if I don't know enough Japanese to think of what would work for that.
How much overlap (or lack thereof) can/should there be in branches? Some of the particulars of the Martial Arts Dating challenge could be worked out at this point depending on those details. What would it even look like? The couples go to a restaurant and attack each other with plates and silverware while trying to earn style points from judges for, say, most romantic gaze?
Ugh, I have no idea--
No, I'm sorry about that Muphrid, I was just trying to remember the order of events in my head. You're thinking I had made a competent, well considered remark, when I didn't. The issue isn't the sen-kens, but the reveal of Ranma/his curse to his mother (and it appears I remembered the name of that story line incorrectly, as well, which didn't help). Pretty much totally irrelevant, here. >_>;
Anyway, had this chat with Dune and Hal this morning:
<Fujisawa> Gotta develop the characters.
<Fujisawa> My thinking ... don't reveal the girl's boyfriend, so we can have him be whatever the plot requires on the different paths. The girl character should be kind of like a less-classy version of Asuka (kind of, actually, a bit like a cross between Asuka and Mariko).
<Fujisawa> Still need to give her a name, but Mikado's younger sister gives her the last name of 'Sanzenin'. So, something that translates to roughly 'princess' ... which means her name would be Sanzenin Itsuki.
<Yukari-sama> Princess princess?
<Fujisawa> Yeah. 'Princess princess' works.
<Fujisawa> She'll still be somewhat less snooty than Asuka, and probably about as enthusiastic as Mariko. But also a lot more vicious/mean with her commentary.
<Fujisawa> Now, the specifics of martial arts dating.... I guess the two ways of victory would be 'being the better, more elegant couple' or 'beating the snot out of the other guys in traditional Ranma 1/2 fashion'.
<Fujisawa> That leaves the endings open for either Amazons Overwhelming or Our Love Conquers All (depending on who is chosen).
<Fujisawa> So, somehow, she snubbed Nabiki. I'm thinking the obvious solution is that Nabiki was on one of her little extortion play 'dates' and Itsuki got her boyfriend to buy something Nabiki wanted -- and it would have been the last one (a purse, I guess, so that Ranma can destroy it later as a potential Take That! to her).
<Fujisawa> Nabiki gets irritated, her date tries to step up (comedy: Poor Hiroshi?), and gets thoroughly trounced by Itsuki/her boyfriend.
<Fujisawa> Nabiki isn't a fighter, so as annoying as that all is, she ignores it until Itsuki comes around later while Ranma is following Nabiki home, trying to get details out of her (Hiroshi was really embarassed, so was obviously banged up but not willing to talk about it).
<Fujisawa> Itsuki/her boyfriend come along, mock Nabiki, manage to get Ranma all riled up, and Nabiki decides that if she's careful, she doesn't have to do any work at all to get Ranma to humiliate/defeat Itsuki.
<Fujisawa> And thus ... THE ADVENTURE BEGINS!
<@Shao_Koahn> Sounds solid, yes.
Looks good, though I'm not sure how you plan to relate this backstory. (Ranma's still the PoV character, yes?)
Yes. I don't foresee any issues with presenting it from Ranma's PoV. He doesn't have real insight into Nabiki's motives, but all that matters is he makes enough observations for the reader to figure it out, and point out that he is (personally) ticked off at the snubbing he endured -- at least enough that Itsuki is willing to let Nabiki go to have a fight with Ranma.
Though, being Ranma, he'd find a way to be in that fight anyway -- this is Ranma, after all.
Kill all the espers!
...final fantasy VI/Haruhi fusion? Terra the esper, Yuki replaced with Ceres, and ... Mikuru as Mikuru?
Hmm. Kyon would be Kyon, and Haruhi would be Haruhi. Or Kefka.
...yeah, best not to think about that one too much more.
So, I haven't forgotten about this, but I did move last week -- which is why I haven't worked on _anything_ writing related, until Chen bit me to provoke C&C for Yukari-sama last night.
I haven't forgotten. Hopefully I'll have some time on Sunday (and get my computer up and running by then) to toss up a more complete outline for the scene-flow of the trunk, up to the first branch (and a few of the comedy options).
Edit: While I'm on that, how many of those should I include, anyway? They're meaningless, but instead of just being throw-away, also are an opportunity to (for example) switch which character Ranma observes for a given stretch -- without changing things seriously. I'm speculating 5 for the trunk, with the last one being the meaningful one (go to school vs. find an ally who doesn't go to school).
I think 5 options is probably the absolute maximum before it would get overwhelming. Some of that may have to do with the ratio of comedic to serious paths: with only one choice furthering the story proper, more than 4 dead-end choices might be confusing.
Then again, if they're really obvious gag choices (as has been touched on), that probably doesn't matter much, either.
Also the ratio of writers to scene :)
Keep that in mind for all your sanity.
If this tops 100k words, I've done something very, very wrong.
I don't expect it to top 100k characters, TBH. Those are approaching our pre-defined sanity limits as it is. ^_^;
General thoughts: Akane/Ukyou path should be more in keeping with the original theme of the series, with Akane being as true to Takahashi as I can write (maybe even hinting at a Status Quo ending, I dunno; probably want to shy away from that if it comes across as favoritism), and Ukyou being similar, with more of an emphasis on establishing a new structure/family values.
Since they share a branch until their respective node, most of their path will reflect the 'Ranma goes to school' option, probably with Akane's bath splitting off into standard Takahashi-style, and Ukyou's ... slightly more introspective? Can probably pull this off since it's a 'dating' challenge, and Ukyou's lack of romantic knowledge (about equal to Ranma's, probably) can be shored up with what she knows about restaraunts (IE., where they would have a bad experience, or something, not sure yet).
I have to admit a lack of inspiration on the Shampoo/Kodachi path. My initial thought was to make it the 'more serious' route (and this can be reflected before the node at the path split). Realistically, Ranma would probably not pursue Kodachi, though to properly notify the player, Nabiki will make a reasonable observation that Ranma could probably team up with her without any comittment (yeah, _right_!). So, their side-plot should be Ranma seeking out Shampoo and finding both.
A good situation for both of them to appear ... possibly Kodachi ordering something from the Neko-Hanten? Maybe have Ranma find Shampoo trading a bundle of her grandmother's herbs for something Kodachi grew? (Play that one off as it being Cologne's plan, Shampoo is just the courier, and it's all stuff Cologne has finding locally -- genuinely harmless, not mind-control ingredients.) Either Shampoo and Kodachi are meeting (or at the same place) by coincidence (even if it's a mundane one), or they're together intentionally. I think coincidence works best, since it leaves them non-adversarial (until Ranma shows up and gives them something to fight over).
May want to wait until the trunk is more finalized before going into too much detail, but the Kodachi/Shampoo path could use some attention, and it could end up being something I want to foreshadow in the trunk.
Let's give this a kick in the ass.
Quote from: Brian on October 24, 2011, 04:29:57 PMGeneral thoughts: Akane/Ukyou path should be more in keeping with the original theme of the series, with Akane being as true to Takahashi as I can write (maybe even hinting at a Status Quo ending, I dunno; probably want to shy away from that if it comes across as favoritism), and Ukyou being similar, with more of an emphasis on establishing a new structure/family values.
Works. I'd try and differentiate Ukyou's path a little more. It's a change in Ranma and a change to the status quo. Both are rather against Takahashi's style in Ranma 1/2, so I feel comparing that isn't quite right.
QuoteSince they share a branch until their respective node, most of their path will reflect the 'Ranma goes to school' option, probably with Akane's bath splitting off into standard Takahashi-style, and Ukyou's ... slightly more introspective? Can probably pull this off since it's a 'dating' challenge, and Ukyou's lack of romantic knowledge (about equal to Ranma's, probably) can be shored up with what she knows about restaraunts (IE., where they would have a bad experience, or something, not sure yet).
She'd know more about dating in restaurants and less out of it. She'd know at least casual dating and maybe more serious dating within that prism, but would show more floundering/possible humor out of it.
QuoteI have to admit a lack of inspiration on the Shampoo/Kodachi path. My initial thought was to make it the 'more serious' route (and this can be reflected before the node at the path split). Realistically, Ranma would probably not pursue Kodachi, though to properly notify the player, Nabiki will make a reasonable observation that Ranma could probably team up with her without any comittment (yeah, _right_!). So, their side-plot should be Ranma seeking out Shampoo and finding both.
A good situation for both of them to appear ... possibly Kodachi ordering something from the Neko-Hanten? Maybe have Ranma find Shampoo trading a bundle of her grandmother's herbs for something Kodachi grew? (Play that one off as it being Cologne's plan, Shampoo is just the courier, and it's all stuff Cologne has finding locally -- genuinely harmless, not mind-control ingredients.) Either Shampoo and Kodachi are meeting (or at the same place) by coincidence (even if it's a mundane one), or they're together intentionally. I think coincidence works best, since it leaves them non-adversarial (until Ranma shows up and gives them something to fight over).
Yes, I'd like to avoid the mind-control spice trap-pit that hits Shampoo/Amazon fics anyway. As to how to make it more serious, I'm not quite sure offhand. It may be best to tie it into making Kodachi more palatable to Ranma, since he's going to need encouragement there anyway.
Quote from: Anastasia on October 30, 2011, 12:30:19 AMLet's give this a kick in the ass.
[Ukyou/Akane branch outline]
Works. I'd try and differentiate Ukyou's path a little more. It's a change in Ranma and a change to the status quo. Both are rather against Takahashi's style in Ranma 1/2, so I feel comparing that isn't quite right.
Fair enough. They'll have to be identical up until Ranma picks between the two of them, anyway.
Quote from: Anastasia on October 30, 2011, 12:30:19 AMShe'd know more about dating in restaurants and less out of it. She'd know at least casual dating and maybe more serious dating within that prism, but would show more floundering/possible humor out of it.
True enough. Though, they have to beat the other couple to win (unless I want to play the super-sappy, "Lose to save Ukyou, have judges suddenly rule that such a display of love overturns the loss at the last moment," card (though, I guess that could also be played for Akane, possibly even in a Takahashi-esque style.
Quote from: Anastasia on October 30, 2011, 12:30:19 AMYes, I'd like to avoid the mind-control spice trap-pit that hits Shampoo/Amazon fics anyway. As to how to make it more serious, I'm not quite sure offhand. It may be best to tie it into making Kodachi more palatable to Ranma, since he's going to need encouragement there anyway.
Hmm. Probably a better way to frame the setup -- Nabiki knows about whatever meetup is going on ("Wait, and you never told me?!" "It's harmless, Saotome -- and you didn't pay me anything for that info before. The important thing here is...") and suggests that Kodachi would be a great partner, as long as Ranma can keep her from thinking it's serious (well, given the Asuka the While Lilly fiasco ... then again--
Hold the phone. Overthinking this.
Kodachi wants in because she wants revenge? Set up, let's see.... Mikado and Asuka could be the 'opposing' couple, actually -- saves creating OCs and gives Kodachi an easy reason to get into the plot. This would be a change to the trunk, but that's not actually a big issue. Lessee ... planses....
Okay. I can't remember if we had a reason to not use Asuka before. Asuka picks a fight with Nabiki, and she's got Mikado with her (who Ranma still has a grudge against for that kiss) so Ranma jumps on board the plan to double-team them. Nabiki 'trains' with Ranma, but her actual plan is to bail before the date _anyway_ (because it's Nabiki; now she's just using Ranma to get revenge with less effort on her part). This feels a bit truer to her character.
Her handling of Nodoka that becomes slightly more casual and less invested (though, she actually will show at least a small amount of concern for Ranma's wellbeing and not try to screw him over -- he's working for her, after all). Plenty of room for Nabiki to possibly also make a mistake early on to get Ranma stuck on the comittment path and then run interference because, well, now she _has_ to....
Okay, I think we've got our opener.
Quote from: Brian on October 30, 2011, 01:02:20 AMTrue enough. Though, they have to beat the other couple to win (unless I want to play the super-sappy, "Lose to save Ukyou, have judges suddenly rule that such a display of love overturns the loss at the last moment," card (though, I guess that could also be played for Akane, possibly even in a Takahashi-esque style.
That's a pretty neat idea. It is sappy, but if done right it could be touching. Hell, at least it would give the girl in question a reason to blush and act all cute.
QuoteHmm. Probably a better way to frame the setup -- Nabiki knows about whatever meetup is going on ("Wait, and you never told me?!" "It's harmless, Saotome -- and you didn't pay me anything for that info before. The important thing here is...") and suggests that Kodachi would be a great partner, as long as Ranma can keep her from thinking it's serious (well, given the Asuka the While Lilly fiasco ... then again--
Hold the phone. Overthinking this.
Kodachi wants in because she wants revenge? Set up, let's see.... Mikado and Asuka could be the 'opposing' couple, actually -- saves creating OCs and gives Kodachi an easy reason to get into the plot. This would be a change to the trunk, but that's not actually a big issue. Lessee ... planses....
Okay. I can't remember if we had a reason to not use Asuka before. Asuka picks a fight with Nabiki, and she's got Mikado with her (who Ranma still has a grudge against for that kiss) so Ranma jumps on board the plan to double-team them. Nabiki 'trains' with Ranma, but her actual plan is to bail before the date _anyway_ (because it's Nabiki; now she's just using Ranma to get revenge with less effort on her part). This feels a bit truer to her character.
Her handling of Nodoka that becomes slightly more casual and less invested (though, she actually will show at least a small amount of concern for Ranma's wellbeing and not try to screw him over -- he's working for her, after all). Plenty of room for Nabiki to possibly also make a mistake early on to get Ranma stuck on the comittment path and then run interference because, well, now she _has_ to....
Okay, I think we've got our opener.
Sounds good, I like how that plays. It ties into things well and that's always a plus. The better a scenario hooks itself together, the less work the author has to do to make it happen.
Okay, hacking this out at work while waiting for DDT to finish. Ugh, mistiming bonnie++ has left me coming into the office and starting a coffee pot at midnight; I've got about 2 hours of work ahead of me, spaced out over the next 4-5 hours. This should give me ample time to work on this outline.
Outline: In brief, Nabiki and Ranma have gotten snared into a match against Mikado and Asuka the White Lilly. This happens because Ranma is (unhappily) helping Nabiki carry packages on her latest shopping spree, and he owes her some money for something. When they meet, Ranma mostly just glares at Mikado, who's not exactly thrilled with Ranma himself. Asuka picks up on this (wait, I just realized I'm getting Asuka and Azusa mixed up -- good opportunity for Mikado to make an ass out of himself later in the story by making the same slip-up and being called out on it; save that thought for future branch outlines), and remembers Ranma from his involvement with Kodachi, so decides to try and pick a fight with Nabiki.
Probably the way to do this is to have Ranma save the packages he's carrying, but have Nabiki carrying something that's more expensive (a necklace, maybe, which Asuka breaks). Hmm. Thinking about this, I like the idea that Asuka gets irritated that Nabiki won't rise to most of her barbs and Nabiki thinks she's got the situation handled, so tells him not to get involved. Asuka breaks the necklace then offers a nicer one as a prize for the match that will settle things.
Nabiki wants the more valuable necklace, but has no intention of actually risking herself or actually getting involved in a fight. She lets Ranma think that she is, and he's willing to pick a fight against Mikado, though the prize is pretty worthless to him.
So. Nabiki has implied that she's dating Ranma to Asuka, though not directly stated it. At this point, no one except Mikado/Asuka and Ranma/Nabiki know about the arrangement, and right as this intro ends, and Ranma grumbles about Akane finding out, as per panda's suggestion: Loudspeaker announcement (actually, considering old-fashioned crop-duster full of leaflets for potentially greater hilarity, and Ranma crazily jumping around tyring to collect them all -- in vain, naturally).
Nabiki had mentioned at one point 'the time that she and Ranma had gotten engaged' (which was a brief arc, but she lets the implication carry it's still ongoing). Asuka, taking it at face value, explicitly mentions 'Ranma and his fiancee'. Depending on how much Nabiki was screwing with him, this could be 'beloved' or the like; could be played up.
Now, Nabiki chooses this moment to weasel out of participating, for additional hilarity and added Takahashi-factor, let's drop the 'training/practice' dates, since the NWC would have destroyed those in a comedy of errors anyway. And Nabiki's genre savvy enough to know that. (But the proviso still lets her claim the necklace, should Ranma win (in fact, until the Nodoka reveal, this is her primary motive to be involved)). Instead, she's using Ranma to solve the problem and do her dirty work for her.
[At this point, to introduce the player to the concept of making choices and keep the game from feeling too railroadey right off the bat, introduce a false-decision hub right here. This calls for a bit more work from me (more scenes), but less total genuine options. Erm. So, hmm.... Nabiki proposes that Ranma consider one of the other girls he's engaged to, giving the player the choice between three options. This is something of a false-reveal as far as how the paths are linked together, but helps provide the illusion that the game is slightly deeper than it is. >_>;;
OPTION ONE: Ask Akane's advice/explain to her first.
Ranma marches off to confront Akane and reveal that Nabiki's gotten him into this situation on his own, after summoning up his bravery. When he gets to her room, she's already talking to Kodachi. Akane's taking a cooler-headed approach right off the bat, and can present Kodachi as viable.
OPTION TWO: Instead of worrying about Akane, worry about picking a good arena for the fight.
Check out the local restaraunt scene, where Ranma stumbles across Ukyou and Shampoo picking up supplies for their respective shops and also too busy to actually fight (yay, thwarting fannon!).
OPTION THREE: Take a nap/screw off.
Player doesn't feel like doing either of those things, so the third scene is Ranma loafing, (effectively, deciding that whatever happens, he's in the eye of the storm). Cue Nodoka arriving right then -- to make this scene mesh with the others, Ranma doesn't participate directly, just eavesdrops -- possibly a little panicked scene where Ranma's looking for cold water (always fun).
All three scenes end with Ranma running into the Tendo home after getting splashed (in the first two options, it's probably by Kasumi; in the third Ranma does it to himself).
The next scene is therefore 'Ranko' running in and failing to run interference for herself, and Nabiki actually redeeming herself a small bit (within bounds; she can recognize some personal responsibility for the issue (but she still wants that necklace)) by keeping Ranma from making a worse decision, and after Nabiki gets Nodoka to eagerly run off to await meeting her 'oh so manly son', can lead directly to the next (much shorter) false decision node (this one's pretty much a gag).
"Saotome, do as I suggest -- unless you want to grab Ryouga and have 'Ranko' cover this challenge for 'Ranma'?"
OPTION ONE: ...no.
Ranma politely declines and cedes to Nabiki's gentle suggestion -- "Plan B," please (go for some dry, Whedonesque reply from Ranma, even if it's verging on OOC (if it's funny enough)).
OPTION TWO: He~ll naw!
After being appropriately squicked, disgusted (going for Arson, Murder, and Jaywalking here), and throwing a laundry list of reasons why that would never happen, Ranma can conclude, "Besides, I'm not that desparate to win this one, yet."
Both lead to Nabiki laying Ranma's alternatives out starkly, and warning that he may have to play nice with whoever to satisfy his mother, so be careful with your choices and don't jump into things -- these decisions could be surprisingly meaningful!
After this, Ranma sleeps on things (the match will be at sunset the next day -- dinner out, naturally). The following morning, after the cliche battle with Genma/etc. + warnings of his mother and how he really, really needs to get married to Akane to solve this problem right now.... Ranma ponders his options, still going with the premise that 'even if it might be a "for a while" thing, it's probably not permanent...' (oh, Saotome, you fool.... You poor, poor fool...) and so:
OPTION ONE: Go to School, where Akane and Ukyou are.
Diverges to the School of Hard Knocks branch (internal name only: Do not release to investors)
OPTION TWO: Ask the Ghoul for advice.
Diverges to the Adventure! branch.
(Man, this is TERRIBLE for a 'final' draft. Good thing I have ... 23 more hours to polish this. Any feedback? Comments? Suggestions? Complaints?)
QuoteOPTION ONE: Ask Akane's advice/explain to her first.
Ranma marches off to confront Akane and reveal that Nabiki's gotten him into this situation on his own, after summoning up his bravery. When he gets to her room, she's already talking to Kodachi. Akane's taking a cooler-headed approach right off the bat, and can present Kodachi as viable.
Kodachi and Akane in the same room? This strikes me as something that might require some care or thought to make sure it stays logical (as much as logic works with Kodachi around) yet civil.
My only other concern is this: does the second big branch make it clear that it leads to Shampoo
and Kodachi by just mentioning Cologne in there? Or, since I don't really know enough about these sorts of things, is that not really required to be apparent so much as you play through a few times and you figure out it when things are ambiguous?
On the whole, though, for a main trunk of things it seems pretty reasonable. I like the extra false node, too. I think that gives it the right pacing.
Quote from: Muphrid on November 01, 2011, 02:10:58 AMKodachi and Akane in the same room? This strikes me as something that might require some care or thought to make sure it stays logical (as much as logic works with Kodachi around) yet civil.
You forget that this actually already happened in the manga. Akane actually
insisted that Ranma date Kodachi to challenge Asuka. Or is it too much to play on that as continuity? I mean ... I think the best way would be to play Ranma's reaction to them both in the same room as incredulous, and then probably have Akane remind Ranma of the way things happened last time herself.
Quote from: Muphrid on November 01, 2011, 02:10:58 AMMy only other concern is this: does the second big branch make it clear that it leads to Shampoo and Kodachi by just mentioning Cologne in there? Or, since I don't really know enough about these sorts of things, is that not really required to be apparent so much as you play through a few times and you figure out it when things are ambiguous?
I think I can get around this by Nabiki mentioning them both as possibilities -- and then telling Ranma to consult with Cologne if he's unsure.
Quote from: Muphrid on November 01, 2011, 02:10:58 AMOn the whole, though, for a main trunk of things it seems pretty reasonable. I like the extra false node, too. I think that gives it the right pacing.
I'll consider that a stamp of approval. In before deadline!
Okay, I think that can make sense. Akane and Kodachi, in a rare moment of cooperation, rejoin forces as before. I can see that. I do think Kodachi might leave some sort of booby trap or other parting gift for Akane, though--maybe as a token act of rivalry because so much goodwill with Akane gives her the creeps or something. It could do double duty in making Kodachi seem anti-villain-esque?
I think the anti-Akane plot could be seeded/hinted there, but only come out in Akane's path, as part of her final story. Still, excellent place to foreshadow it.