Feedback for session 2
Our first real session after the unfortunate issues with session one keeping us from getting much done. The scene in the Eagle Inn started off a little bit slow from my end since it was just the PCs talking to each other and planning and I didn't have to exercise any description or NPC actions, but it's nice to have all you guys interacting and getting to know one another. I feel a bit silly for forgetting ravens can talk, but hey, so did the player who actually owns one so what the hell.
You guys didn't have that much time to get shit done after taking 10 for gathering info, and when Henrietta and Rudy went off to hire boats I rolled how long they'd take to get back, intending to have the Nixie depart for its smuggling rendevouz on the 30 minute mark (so if Glenn hadn't stuck around to keep an eye on it you guys might have been left scratching your heads when you came back to find it gone). Luckily the dice were kind and everyone was back within 10 minutes.
Sneaking with a rowboat is pretty impossible but Henrietta did a good job of keeping everyone distracted. It was only a lucky 20 on Trucy's perception roll that had Rudy and company spotted as they boarded, which coupled with Miranda's hex was unequivocably hostile enough to start hostilities.
On the one hand, having Vark front and centre probably made things a little easy, since he got ganged up on and killed quickly, leaving the other thugs failing their morale checks. I could've had a more involved battle by keeping him held back a bit longer and arrive on deck after the first round of battle, but Henrietta's diplomacy brought him onto the deck earlier than he otherwise would've shown up. He would've surrendered or fled himself if he'd survived one more round without a decisive swing in the battle since his hp was low, but Glenn's firebomb was way more than he could take.
I did like that you guys weren't so bloodthirsty as to murder everyone trying to run or surrender - I can't promise that everyone you show mercy to will prove worth the trouble, but it's nice that you aren't in the stone cold 'fuck it, they'll just cause more trouble later' mindset. Rudy at least seems to have a potential friend (or more?) for letting Vark's girlfriend get away, and Henrietta is already making plans for her hat-mocking apprentice.
I perhaps should have given the gondolier a little more description and personality, given that he ended up in the thick of things, but I was half expecting him to get ditched so everyone could use Rudy's boat rather than splitting the party, so didn't belabour his presence at first, and then once things were underway I didn't want to suddenly put a lot of focus on him.
Miranda's failures at climbing and swimming were sad but also amusing. At least she managed to have a bit of a confrontation with the gondola hijacker rather than sitting out the fight entirely.
Despite the deadliness of low level d&d combat, you guys came out of this one smelling of roses, but you had a good advantage in terms of morale and skill against the smugglers, and for the most part they used more 'soft' attacks - attempts to push people overboard rather than stab them, for example. The Rhagodessa could've been really nasty, but you guys got down while one thug was still alive and it wasn't able to ohko him, so it was well distracted and unable to really focus its really scary grapple+bite on any of you guys - Glenn's high AC saved him from a bite that likely would've downed any other PC had it hit.
All in all, a very good first 'real' session. I had lots of fun with it, and it should hopefully set a nice tone for the party to go forward into more dangerous adventures without recoiling back and grumbling about wanting less dangerous professions.
Oh yeah, me and Gondola Boy are best friends now.
For the record, if Miranda had been able to get to her, she'd have probably killed the woman that shot her. She's got the classic "you hurt me, I'll make you miserable for ten times as long as should be appropriate" witch thing going on. Either that, or she has Daddy Issues. >_>
All in all, as far as our first combat scene went, I think it was great. :D
I don't like to give feedback right away honestly, I prefer having a few sessions to get a feel for things before talking about this stuff.
Suffice to say it was pretty funny and I liked the session. Was hoping things wouldn't escalate before I got a chance to swagger, but hey.
I had fun both sessions, yes. Obviously, I don't have much to shine with social scenes though, neither having the charisma or skills to often try it. I mostly seem to enjoy myself with banter with Miranda and her eye-eating raven while the other two do that.
As for Glenn and combat, since the mutagen makes him lose -2 wis, I'm trying to play off that as just being a bit more rash/reckless/impulsive and just slightly loopy/demented at times. Hopefully, doing okay there.
It was fun, fun was had. I was a bit sad that we didn't actually get to try and bullshit our way through and things degenerated into combat. But maybe next time! Another thing I want to comment on is the GI check/our target leaving. I still think that trying to find out more details on our target and the environment where things were set was the right move. Say we had gone to the boat straight away. What was there for us to do? Try to come up with something random on the spot? Skip to combat? This way, we managed to create a halfway decent plan despite none of us really having the right skills for this sort of job, and managed to get in fun banter (mostly Rudy of Vark, there) which otherwise would have been the standard and bland baiting of some generic villain. So what I'm basically getting at here is that I would've been pretty upset had that ship sailed without us. It feels like it'd reward charging in blindly and with a combat mindset, you know? I guess there's the taking 10 stuff, but considering we had two rolls to make and would've been bound by the result of the slowest anyway....
Man. However it seems from the above, I had fun! Really! Getting a young, inexperienced deputy was neat. Doing the whole Indy thing was also enjoyable. The gondolier can get more personality after Miranda personally thanks him for sticking around. In fact, as a result of how much fun this setting seemed to me, I'm considering trying to stick around in town for a while, rather than try to get on the road like I imagined originally.
Well, regarding the boat leaving, that shouldn't necessarily be seen as a write off.
It would've come back within a few hours, and set up an entirely different sort of encounter - the animals would all be gone, so there'd be no Rhagodessa problem (but two more thugs in the battle), and the smugglers would've had their pay from the buyers, so there'd be more cash to loot. On the other hand, there would've been no actual evidence of the smuggling, which could've made it harder to pin wrongdoing on Vark and get Lavinia's money back - you probably could've bulled through and retaken the ship anyway, then used testimony from cowed smugglers, but it creates entirely new problems and opportunities.
If you'd rushed in gung ho at the start you might have had less info, but the ship would've been docked on the pier rather than moored out in the harbour, so it would've been easier to board, and there would've been less smugglers on board for you to fight. But any fight would've been far more visible to witnesses and potential interference.
If you guys wanted to be real heroes you might have tried sneaking aboard as the ship departed with the intent of disrupting the smuggling handover and bringing everyone to justice/getting the most loot, but at the expense of an extremely difficult battle with two sides involved, and the difficulty of actually sailing yourselves back to port.
I'm not going to say you did this the best way or the worst way, but you did it in a way that worked and got the job done without any real pain on your end. What I'm trying to get at is a more living and natural world, where things move and change rather than all moving at the speed of plot to land on preset encounters. You guys took your time on this one, and it worked out pretty well. Taking less time could've worked out well, taking more time could've worked out well. Although had you waited until the next day you'd have had considerably more problems getting evidence of the smuggling or even collaring any smugglers, since they'd be dispersed and blowing their cash at that point.
Feedback for session 3
Gondola boy finally managed to shine early on, and become well acquainted with Miranda. Will romance bloom, or was it just a tawdry one night thing? Time will surely tell! I did enjoy the RP this session, you guys managed to more fully cement yourselves as a team and establish your personalities, so there wasn't that much else to do for NPCs when you were all bouncing off each other so well. Hopefully Trucy managed to come across as a bit more than a random goon with her various shipboard skills and banter with the team before she got locked up, and we'll surely be seeing her again.
Likewise I'm glad Rat approves of Maril even after she stole his borrowed boat, and Miranda's implications of revenge should give some hooks with her if she happens to make a reappearance.
I wasn't sure if you guys would actually accept Lavinia's generous job offer, since I know there's been some desire for travelling and the like, but you guys solved the Nixie problem so smoothly that she was genuinely impressed, and your show against the iron viper only cemented you in her good books. Saving her all that money in fines for the impounded ship also gave her plenty cause to be generous towards you. Of course, the vault still holds other mysteries that must wait till next week to be uncovered...
Speaking of the snake, it shows how harsh even light DR can be at low levels when no one has power attack. It was basically built that way, so I can't complain - its offence wasn't much, mostly relying on poison that you guys saved against - that's why it spread its attacks around rather than focusing, to try and hit as many people as it could with the stuff. A pity Miranda couldn't do anything against it, but as a trainee necromancer hopefully she'll have undead goons to handle such work one day.
Any questions or comments, please toss them up here - with the game only having one session a week it's good to have discussion keeping things involved. On that note, how do people feel about having a play by post section for stuff during the week? Primarily for RP stuff like say Rudy's date that was today arbitrated down to a quick charisma check. It's not something I'd want to hold up a session, particularly if it's just one PC, but it could be fun to have something like that running on the side, both for getting to know NPCs and intraparty interaction, or stuff like shopping trips or info gathering.
Figured the snake had DR, decided to see if low-grade energy spam would work better. Kinda annoying Hat spurned my heroics, but it happens.
Lavinia's offer worked for me since I wanted to stay here for a while to get a feel for the region, and it seemed like fun. Also, I wanted to check up on Trucy.
Speaking of, it might be fun to do stuff like checking up on her via post, but I bet it'd go terribly slowly, as every forum game ever. Also, we'll only be able to do it if a session ended with us in town and there being no rush or deadline ahead. That feels pretty rare.
I don't mind doing stuff by post if it comes up, just a matter of having time for it. Not -usually- a problem, but one never knows. One thing I'd probably want to do along that nature (once I have the money for it, so at least a month in service), is getting permission to build an alchemical lab on or near Lavinia's estate if we're planning to continue working for her for a good period of time, or just find a place where I can, near wherever I live, preferably.
Out of curiosity, what were the effects of the snake's poison, had we failed the fort saves?
The snake's poison was 1d6/1d6 str. Do note that I had it work like 3.5 poison with an initial save and a save after one minute. After the session I was informed that Pathfinder poisons work differently, with smaller damages spread over several rounds rather than two big lumps. I'll correct that in future.
It might be best if we do things in broad strokes with forum posts, but I can gladly talk about what Rudy gets up to in his spare time.
We must follow our passions! Art!
Forum posts during the week could help us sort out side stuff and whatnot, to help us get closer to the meat of it all when we actually all get together.
Miranda was frustrated by the fact that she was not very effective against the viper, but she'll get over it now that she has been paid, and she has promised Henrietta she'd take her to a nice seedy bar, and see a bar fight. She may even try to incite it. :D
As far as Miranda is concerned, she's already traveling. She's from Jovar, so most of the area is relatively fresh to her.
That dungeon was not the best.
First up, I can't say the theme or style was too appealing- there was nothing that made me want to explore it so much as get out, especially once the note was located. I guess I'd admittedly showed up to the place expecting a tense confrontation with smugglers- nothing wrong with eschewing expectations here, but a slow-moving slog through a dungeon, fighting some pretty banal monsters (crabs! ZOMBIES) was really the opposite of what I was hoping for. Dungeons, to work, need to have truly cool set-pieces, locations, weird things, and occupants, and to my mind there was nothing that really gripped me there. Tension and fear can also be helpful, buuuuuut the nature of a dungeon crawl honestly seems to make that hard, and I lack the patience to really enjoy such things anyway.
It was unfortunate that Miranda was KO'd for 4 sessions, to say the least. I suppose we should have rested, but the threat of disease and significant wariness about resting in a place like this were against us there.
I think it would be more cool if you streamlined things for us more; really, when it comes to finding creative ways to knock down doors, climb walls, organize complicated trapdoor-opening schemes, etc, to make the result clear quickly so we can move on, rather than blow long periods of time on stuff that won't work.
I am skeptical of how fun the 'dungeon' part of D&D is as a whole anyway, but when online in particular they really drag; even a perfect game will still have relatively simple things taking aaaages to work out, there's no tabletop miniatures board or anything to visualize things with (and it's a pain to set up online), more advanced dungeons force you to take security precautions and tend to rely on a sort of genre-savviness to get through, so much time is used on prince-of-persia style environment negotiation, and worst of all they're slow, as players we might be able to do better but it's really hard if you're not all that interested in the dungeon in the first place.
I WAY prefer fast-paced action to dungeon crawls, or having strict time limits that force us to negotiate them rapidly without second-guessing ourselves, and having the adventure designed around, I dunno, daring escapes or hardcore assaults, swift in-and-out stuff where you don't have much time to stop and think or rest. Barring that, having interesting inhabitants or phenomena to interact with is a sure way to get my attention and spice the place up, as well as any way in which the dungeon could serve a long-term purpose in the game (thus setting it up for later use.) But this wasn't really those, as far as I could tell.
I really liked the game before the dungeon, which I'm now glad is over. The NPCs so far have been pretty fun, and storming the smuggler boat was a riot, so I'm hoping we can have more adventures in those veins rather than dungeon crawls like this.
I'm not convinced that resting was a viable option of bringing Miranda back. When we stopped coming after the zombies, the zombies came to us. If we had tried to 'rest', then disease aside, I expect that rest would have been interrupted by an attack. Miranda could only reasonably be around for the ghoul, then, which I doubt she would have been able to damage anyway unless we gave her a silver dagger we had no idea we should have used. Even with limited genre-savviness, why would anyone favor a silver weapon, however masterwork, if silver does less damage in 3.5?
I wholeheartedly second quicker resolutions for things that don't work, I've mentioned this already last week, I think. And really for things that do work. While not pressed for time in any particular way, why not have the equivalent to 'taking ten' for bashing open rusty locks? I can get the realism of a low damage roll not doing much against a lock, but that realism is weighed against me knowing it can't possibly stand in my way. Any time I need to spam 10# rolls is a time where I want to get something over with quickly, and given that I clearly can do this and even prefer it to rolling out the ten dice one at a time, each time pausing for confirmation of success/failure... really, I don't want to be 'forced' to choose what I consider a lesser evil that breaks immersion just to get out of something even more tedious.
I said IC that everything in that dungeon hated us and wanted us dead and I was fairly spot on. The problem with this, as Rat touched upon, is that I have zero incentive of going to such dungeons. I'm not in it for the money, and knowing how terribly fucking scary everything about such dungeons is, there is no way in hell I'll ever return to one IC. We seem to have alternatives, not being the standard D&D adventuring group who simply must go from one grave-robbing to another. What I'm getting at here is that if you actually like such dungeons, it is unfortunate because Henrietta, at least, has been scarred for life and will do her utmost to avoid them in the future. Additionally, visualizing it without a map is doubly hard for me, and just asking you for our remaining options and picking them one by one at random is not terribly exciting. That effectively turns the dungeon into a linear series of rooms where you lead us from one to the other, which might actually have been less difficult to visualize.
Seconding Rat's last paragraph 100%.
Hurray, other people are using this topic at last!
The dungeon was quite unpleasant I'm fully willing to grant, but a big part of why is that it was a trap. Someone deliberately lured you there with a false tale to lock you in with the horrible things that want you dead and left you to rot. IC you guys were supposed to find zero fun in such a place, but as there was also OOC distaste then it clearly failed in its overall goal of being a tense but fun situation to overcome.
Resting wouldn't have failed if you'd taken precautions like hiding behind a closed and barricaded door - I was less interested in having an endless horde of zombies come at you than in having them pop up here and there for quick scares/fights - the initial group that came at you was spurred on by Miranda's familiar making a screeching racket, then the other two stragglers eventually wandered over while you guys were trying to bash open the trapdoor specifically because I wanted to throw in something exciting beyond attacking a slab of metal.
I don't mind if you guys are soured on dungeons, since they are a lot to keep track of and the game before now has put up lots of other possibilities to adventure with that don't involve spelunking and mapkeeping.
As for streamlining stuff, I'm on board with that. The trapdoor was a bit tricky because while the acid was useless, the flail would have gotten through eventually and I wanted to give some feedback beforehand to highlight the risks of exactly what would happen when it broke and all the stuff weighing it down fell on top of you - still, I get that object destruction needs to be handwaved a lot more when the result is inevitable.
We've hit the half year mark, so this is a good time for me to troll for feedback, given that this thread hasn't seen nearly the use I would've liked. So I'd appreciate it if everyone could take a few minutes to post something - to help organise your thoughts, here are some sample questions which would really help me to have answers to, but feel free to get anything else off your chest.
What is your favourite aspect of the setting? Whether it's something we've dealt with and you loved it or something hinted at in fluff that caught your imagination and you want to explore.
What is your least favourite aspect of the setting? Something you're sick to the back teeth of, or something you know is out there but fervently hope we never deal with outright.
Who is your favourite NPC to interact with? Not necessarily the nicest, but the one that grabbed you the most and you want to see more of as a player.
Which NPC did you hate? Maybe they're already dead but if not you hope they die soon just to spare you the chore of ever interacting with them.
Which encounter/fight was the most fun? What about it made it so for you?
Which encounter/fight sucked? What bored or irritated you about it?
What do you think of your own character? Are they growing the way you want them to? Is the game giving them enough opportunities to shine? If not is there anything that can be done to fix that? Also mechanically, what do you think of your class/build? Is it fun and effective?
What do you think of the Pathfinder system? We've all played 3.5, so primarily comparing it against that, what has stuck out to you as an improvement? Is there anything you wish they hadn't changed?
Remember, by specifying stuff here, you're making it easier for me to tailor the game to your desires, hopefully making it more fun. You like fun, don't you?
QuoteYou like fun, don't you?
no
I've kinda liked the look and feel of the setting so far. It's interesting that our adventures involve things like... taxidermists. Or local parks and estates that may have local dragons in them. Or... landlords. It gives the whole setting this extra level of detail, even if these things never actually play a major role. But they *might* someday, and if/when they do that will probably feel pretty cool! I kinda wish I could spend some more time just wandering around and doing things, you know? The festival, btw, was pretty awesome. And in terms of what I want to explore, I really want to chase up where Maya came from; some sort of evil temple/cult? For obvious reasons.
I'm not sure if there's anything I really dislike about the setting inherently. The fact that we're suddenly really rich, as usual, feels
really weird and I've always been bad at acting naturally whilst keeping that in mind. Since we actually have some big bucks now, it does raise the question of what is there to spend it on...
On NPC interaction, Lavinia leads the pack, but there actually haven't been too many people we've interacted with on a recurring basis. It's difficult since it's a group game, which makes it hard for us to split up and make our own friends. It's kinda selfish but it's nice to 'own' your own relationships without needing to share them with the party, you know? Oh, yeah, and I hated that fucking harpy. What a dick..
The first encounter on the smugglers boat was still kinda the most awesome, since everything about it seemed kinda hilarious and cool at the same time. <_<
As for suckage, I think that entire dungeon on the island was basically a low point. It felt like it took forever, and there was nothing really that interesting about it while we were there save Penkus and our newfound frothing hatred for Vanthus. But negotiating the den itself wasn't too fun.
Rudy seems okay and I find ways to do things in most scenes. He's a mechanical freak and I kinda feel he's too effective sometimes; I think it only gets better, too.
Pathfinder is just 3.5. Honestly the only major difference is the new classes, it otherwise feels basically the same to me.
It gives the whole setting this extra level of detail
The setting's a lot closer to the modern day than the usual generic fantasy D&D, so it's a lot easier for me to conceptualise the background stuff. It's basically the 18th century in terms of social constructs, which also lets me bring in fun analogues to real movements such as communist pirates.
I really want to chase up where Maya came from; some sort of evil temple/cult?
Lucie might know a bit about that (I'll pass more details to Cid if it ever comes up during a session or play by post) but for the full skinny you'd need to brave the perils of Maya's psyche. Could be fun to pursue some time, so by all means go for it.
The fact that we're suddenly really rich, as usual, feels really weird and I've always been bad at acting naturally whilst keeping that in mind. Since we actually have some big bucks now, it does raise the question of what is there to spend it on...
I've tried to make wealth fit a bit more organically in the setting - remember Lavinia's vault, she casually expected to walk into 30k+ there and she's just a level 3 NPC, but she wasn't interested in magic loot or anything. Likewise the Lotus Dragons were clearly well funded, but it's a fair assumption a lot of that was going into stuff like bribes and pay offs. So rather than a nonmagic budget of <10gp and all real loot in the thousands, I'm trying to make high wealth 'fit' as something more than a vehicle for obtaining +3 swords. You can invest in land and opportunities, much as Lavinia is heavily involved in right now, and there's also the example of the Kellani patriarch who bought a noble title.
That said, magic is common here. It's not a high magic setting with archmages on every corner, but level 3-5 guys crafting items are common enough that I'm not going to oversweat the low end magic items - you can commission them easily enough. Higher tier stuff requires powerful creators, who're typically very busy and in demand so getting their services will be more involved with favours and contacts and introductions coming into play, but we'll cross that bridge when we come to it.
which makes it hard for us to split up and make our own friends. It's kinda selfish but it's nice to 'own' your own relationships without needing to share them with the party, you know?
This is what the Play by Post thread is for! Getting some time with Maril wasn't just a one off, feel free to just dive right into it and post something to say your PC is going to hit up someone between sessions. Admittedly we've been on a bit of a tight timescale lately, but if it can reasonably be fitted in - you can go hang out with a friend when 'resting' at the end of the day and still be fresh for adventuring the next morning. I also heartily encourage PC on PC stuff in there, too.
Oh, yeah, and I hated that fucking harpy. What a dick..
He was totally meant to be. In his own mind he's a Peter Pan type trickster hero, but he's just an immature brat. I never even bothered trying for a big finish prank since he was so hated and predictable.
But negotiating the den itself wasn't too fun.
Yeah, I should've fleshed out the zombies and the environment more to have it tell a 'story' as you guys uncovered stuff. I well remember the feedback after that adventure and will try to learn from it.
He's a mechanical freak and I kinda feel he's too effective sometimes; I think it only gets better, too
I'd say he's the most consistent PC. Between him and Myra the damage output is constant and respectable, and his summoned mooks soak up a good chunk of damage. Glenn is probably the most effective, with his natural attacks and AC eclipsing Myra's on the melee front and at range his bombs offer very good and near guaranteed damage. Lucie's spells put in a very good showing in the last adventure, so she could shine a lot as we go, but she was also running dry so it's a finite well for her. Henrietta's in the same boat - her spells haven't been as devastating, but there's nothing to stop her picking stuff like colour spray and glitterdust as we go, and her vine whip really puts a crimp in humanoids. Miranda sadly was too weak and squishy, and her spells weren't terribly effective and her hex was fairly minor.
Quote from: Ebiris on February 26, 2011, 01:54:52 PMWhat is your favourite aspect of the setting? Whether it's something we've dealt with and you loved it or something hinted at in fluff that caught your imagination and you want to explore.
What is your least favourite aspect of the setting? Something you're sick to the back teeth of, or something you know is out there but fervently hope we never deal with outright.
See Rat for the first one. It generally does feel like we're in a functioning, sophisticated city, which is cool. Have no real complaints to note.
Quote from: Ebiris on February 26, 2011, 01:54:52 PMWho is your favourite NPC to interact with? Not necessarily the nicest, but the one that grabbed you the most and you want to see more of as a player.
Which NPC did you hate? Maybe they're already dead but if not you hope they die soon just to spare you the chore of ever interacting with them.
See Rat again. Man, this is easy! Seriously though, he did say most of the things that need saying. And I haven't been around long enough to interact with much of anyone beyond immediate PCs. Will need to change this.
Quote from: Ebiris on February 26, 2011, 01:54:52 PMWhich encounter/fight was the most fun? What about it made it so for you?
Which encounter/fight sucked? What bored or irritated you about it?
I've only really been involved in combat during the Dragon raid, so it's kinda hard to say. It was notably easier than I'd've expected, but I think the bots being uncommonly merciful to us had something to do with that. Which can't but make one worry for the future.
Quote from: Ebiris on February 26, 2011, 01:54:52 PMWhat do you think of your own character? Are they growing the way you want them to? Is the game giving them enough opportunities to shine? If not is there anything that can be done to fix that? Also mechanically, what do you think of your class/build? Is it fun and effective?
Here I can comment a little more. Playing someone straightforwardly selfish and jerkish is kind of a new thing, but I like to try and be pragmatic about how that manifests itself. I think there's been some opportunity for that the short time I've been around, at least (I got to threaten a dude. And act totally callous about killing Lady Lotus when everyone else was all grossed out and disturbed?) Always takes me a while to sort out a character's mannerisms, but off to a decent start I think. Mechanically, well, Color Spray owns but that won't last forever. We'll see, but I think the school I picked for Lucie has some decent tricks and is thematically appropriate for her. I look forward to level 7 when I can demonstrate my superiority to people via constant and conspicuous levitation.
Quote from: Ebiris on February 26, 2011, 01:54:52 PMWhat do you think of the Pathfinder system? We've all played 3.5, so primarily comparing it against that, what has stuck out to you as an improvement? Is there anything you wish they hadn't changed?
Once again Rat beat me to it. It is 3.5 in a lot of ways, but streamlined here and there. Principally I mostly like that it takes a saner approach to skills.
QuotePrincipally I mostly like that it takes a saner approach to skills.
goddamn but I wish I'd played a fighter/rogue <_<
I've only really been involved in combat during the Dragon raid, so it's kinda hard to say. It was notably easier than I'd've expected, but I think the bots being uncommonly merciful to us had something to do with that.
The Lotus Dragons suffered a lot in that I designed them at the start to be competitive with my starting PCs. You guys levelled up, and while I did give some of them an extra level, that was just a minor tweak - instead of it being regular dudes and occasional lieutenants, it was regular dudes and occasional mooks, but the regular dudes were still crappy thanks to shitty ability scores. The Lady of the Lotus gained about three levels as you guys were going through her dudes like a hot knife through butter, but while her hp and to hit increased, and she got some nice spells used to give her a surprise (the illusory lizard 'blocking' one approach while the real one was invisible to attack anyone trying the 'safe' approach was quite clever I thought), she didn't really gain enough offence to threaten you guys.
Quote from: Ebiris on February 26, 2011, 01:54:52 PMWhat is your favourite aspect of the setting? Whether it's something we've dealt with and you loved it or something hinted at in fluff that caught your imagination and you want to explore.
I do agree with Rat that some of the things we keep encountering in the game are cool. The festival was the most interesting thing so far to me though. We didn't really spend too much time on that, since we were going to meet with Lucie and stuff, but I thought it was entertaining to see something so relaxing-type, and then we have the woman turning me into a goat. That was amusing.
QuoteWhat is your least favourite aspect of the setting? Something you're sick to the back teeth of, or something you know is out there but fervently hope we never deal with outright.
You already know the general group opinion on dungeon crawls from the zombie one. The Lotus Dragon one was a lot better due to the map we had though.
Not quite 'setting' specific, but this is probably where it fits best: I do think it's pretty lame how Yuth kept getting put into the situation where he'd log on and not really have much to do. That's not really your fault, just how the rolls went (and rushing the crabs was a pretty bad idea overall from his side), so not really sure what you could do about it, but it highlights one of the problems with dungeon crawling experiences where a bad set of rolls can force someone to do nothing but twiddle their thumbs for a session or three. Since we meet weekly, that gets particularly harsh when a crawl lasts as long as the zombie/crabs one did.
QuoteWho is your favourite NPC to interact with? Not necessarily the nicest, but the one that grabbed you the most and you want to see more of as a player.
Lavinia is pretty cool even if we haven't really interacted a whole lot with her (still a lot more than with any other NPC though!), and she's a good source of conversation bait as the end of last session showed. I also liked that wacky priestess from the docks and the festival witch.
The taxidermist was also interesting, in his case it was mostly cause of his profession though, not a personality thing.
QuoteWhich NPC did you hate? Maybe they're already dead but if not you hope they die soon just to spare you the chore of ever interacting with them.
That damn guard from when my house burned down! He was so unsympathetic to my plight! And he was a jerk too! Even Rudy is nicer to Glenn than that, and Rudy's an ass!
I also didn't like Rabbanni. Damn creepy old codger.
QuoteWhich encounter/fight was the most fun? What about it made it so for you?
I rather liked the spider fight. The image of jumping down on it's back along with Myra, Henrietta twisting around as she frees herself from its grip and grabbing off the wall and then helping out with piledriving it into a squishy mess at the bottom was awesome.
QuoteWhich encounter/fight sucked? What bored or irritated you about it?
Zombies~
The sea snake trap also irritated me, but that was mostly at Hatbot/situation with the well, not the encounter itself. I just got really frustrated with the hero points getting used all at once for nothing since I used them all up trying to climb the rope and then falling because of a bad roll. I suppose there all I could have asked for is an idea of how many rolls it would take to succeed at something in the future. I probably wouldn't have spent a hero point on the first climb check otherwise, knowing I have a climb modifier of +1 for the second check. I would definitely have blown it for the second check knowing that'd get me out.
QuoteWhat do you think of your own character? Are they growing the way you want them to? Is the game giving them enough opportunities to shine? If not is there anything that can be done to fix that? Also mechanically, what do you think of your class/build? Is it fun and effective?
Glenn is coming of as more of a selfish jerk than I'd originally intended, he's really like a big kid throwing tantrums at stuff, but it's fun to play him like that too. He's been -really- effective in combat by far, his build just really shines in the early levels (iterative attacks pre-level 6 will do that), though he should grow a bit more balanced with the other characters as we level more.
The whole bomb thing and how often we're underground or some place he can't use them normally caused an interesting situation. I'm not really complaining about it, it does amuse me even if I complain about it (and very vocally so in character), it just modified how I was going to let him build a bit. I grabbed the Precise Bombs thing last level-up, as I figured if I can control where splash damage goes, I'm less likely to bring a place down on us. Modifying a character to match a setting's environment is a nice way to customize things as we move along and make the character feel more interesting too.
Overall, I like my class/build though and don't have complaints over it.
QuoteWhat do you think of the Pathfinder system? We've all played 3.5, so primarily comparing it against that, what has stuck out to you as an improvement? Is there anything you wish they hadn't changed?
It's really just a set of variant rules that help streamline it a bit, it's still pretty much 3.5 overall, even if most of us are trying the non-3.5 classes, excepting Cor. I generally do like the new classes though, so I guess that's a cool thing about Pathfinder, even if the classes could very easily be ported back to a 3.5 game too. None of the changes really bug me either.
The festival was the most interesting thing so far to me though.
I'm glad it was so well received considering it was literally something I tossed together at the last minute to stall you guys a week so Cid would have time to join when you met Lucie's gang. I'll try to fit in more things like that as you go around places.
so not really sure what you could do about it, but it highlights one of the problems with dungeon crawling experiences where a bad set of rolls can force someone to do nothing but twiddle their thumbs for a session or three.
One idea I've seen used in another game was for an incapacitated player to control the monsters in encounters. Provided they can be objective about it that could be something fun to try if we get in that situation again.
I rather liked the spider fight.
So glad to hear that, considering it's my favourite encounter as well. It was short and not really important to anything, but it fulfilled its role so perfectly in being properly led up to and having a tense and dynamic battle with full use of the environment.
I suppose there all I could have asked for is an idea of how many rolls it would take to succeed at something in the future.
I'm sorry that was a disappointment for you, but I was going by the Climb skill on the SRD which puts you at quarter speed, so halfway up the 30ft rope on a double move.
I grabbed the Precise Bombs thing last level-up
It's also good for hitting stuff in melee with your buddies. It's really only the fact that you can miss and hurt yourself/other PCs that stops me from thinking it's outright overpowered. To be fair, though, the Lotus Dragon lair was pretty sturdily constructed - a few bombs were unlikely to bring it down. The smuggler's island lair was both ancient and poorly constructed to start with (as evidenced by the pre-existing cave-in over the docks where you battled crabs) so having a constant danger of collapse aggravated by explosive/fiery detonations felt in keeping with the whole thing.
Quote from: Merc on February 26, 2011, 10:30:36 PM
Quote from: Ebiris on February 26, 2011, 01:54:52 PMWhat is your favourite aspect of the setting? Whether it's something we've dealt with and you loved it or something hinted at in fluff that caught your imagination and you want to explore.
I do agree with Rat that some of the things we keep encountering in the game are cool. The festival was the most interesting thing so far to me though. We didn't really spend too much time on that, since we were going to meet with Lucie and stuff, but I thought it was entertaining to see something so relaxing-type, and then we have the woman turning me into a goat. That was amusing.
Meant to mention this, but yeah, that was pretty fun to read and I was wishing I was there at the time. Lucie
totally would've taken that challenge! (It's like a tradition or something, I'm obliged to drink mysterious beverages.)
I like having fun and colorful options, and Pathfinder addresses one of my pet peeves of how mages in 3.5, no matter how awesome, had only 6 cantrips per day at most. That was dumb, so I'm glad I can spam Prestidigitation or low-level attacks without needing to invest in a crossbow.
My least favorite part of the game is visualization. It tends to bog things down for me, and is more of a bother than the zombie dungeon. I feel like we've got a good fight going, and then I need to pause and ask for an ascii map. I guess, to compare it to Dune, that he handwaves a lot of the distance/placement so he gets by easily without any positioning info. But if I try to just go along with it in GF, too, it just doesn't work. Do I have line of sight? Line of effect? Can I flank with someone? Can I get there without an AoO? To give a specific example, I basically took that AoO yesterday because I didn't really care at that point and just gave up trying to make sense of the map. Rather than pause things, calculate distances again, redo my action... rather than do all that, I just decided to fast-forward past that instance and dive back to the good stuff. It happens quite a lot, and that's a shame. I can be a lot more effective if I know where everything and everyone is (and you clearly care about it and keep track of things), but more than that, I just don't like how it keeps on pausing the game and breaking the flow.
Do I have NPCs I hate? No, actually. I'm firmly of the opinion that if I nurse a burning hatred for an NPC, I like his presence. So what you're really asking is whether I have apathy for any NPCs, and the answer's not really. I do want to echo the desire to have more people recur. I think I'll be contrarian and go against what seems to be what everyone else is saying. People are talking about how there's this feel we're living in a real city. I guess I get that sense that the city is real, yes. But I don't really feel we're quite living in it, because I equate that with people. I certainly realize we've had plot to think of, and we still need to rush after Vanthus if we are to catch him, but there'll surely be a time when we can just relax and have fun and explore and talk to people. I think it's why Rat and I wanted so much to RP the renting of a house and settling in, maybe meeting the neighbors. That got kinda handwaved which is a bit sad, but I'm sure there'll be other opportunities for stuff like that!
Do I have NPCs I especially like? Well, I like Lavinia. I like Trucy as well, though I don't really get her as much, I think. This particular question ties into what I'd like to see more of, and that would be a chance to develop myself and establish my background and build ties to people and all that good stuff. I wholeheartedly agree with Rat that there is something appealing about having friendships that you don't need to share with other PCs, even if it's a sort of a guilty pleasure. PbP might be a good way for any of it, and I've tried to go for it before, though I guess I haven't had much luck in that department so far. I tried to go and explore new parts of the city when I was looking for that monk Brissa painted, wanted to pay another visit to the fun cleric we came across or I tried to go and look up the guards I met the previous night (or even try to meet some trustworthy-seeming guards in their place), and those things were basically summarized, right? The conclusion I can draw from this is that there wasn't anything I could do/nothing new to discover/those would've been boring people and encounters. I'm cool with that, though I'd appreciate a chance to do something else that you think might be fun? Stuff the likes of the festival would be neat, and it should be doable since you pretty much made it up on the spot, if I get you right. Anything in the vein of any of the encounters we had there could be pretty fun. Or meeting someone from home. Or even a fellow quirky atheist! Or some Very Kind People who will accept my care package for my parents and promise to deliver it swiftly.
Did I have a fight I particularly enjoyed? I'll have to go with the assassination attempt. I had to spam MM and didn't use any awesome tactics but it was a good way to see that I'm not just some mook off the street, and I'm quite pleased with how that whole thing turned out, both in itself and in comparison to the others' own attacks. I also thought it was quite clever to do that trick with the invisible and illusionary lizard, though with how things turned out, maybe she should've reserved her invis? BTW, what was she trying to cast, while blinded?
I think I like my character, and I'd love to have more opportunities to see where she'd go. I tend to think she'd develop far more outside of combat than in it, which isn't that unreasonable for most people, so I'm hoping to get the chance. 3.5 mages aren't something to write home about at the lower levels, but having chances to be cool is more than enough. I was sad the one-time Hecate curse didn't work. I do like quite a bit that I can be moderately effective at any range, be it melee, ten feet away from melee, thirty feet away or even over a hundred feet from it. I have magic or skills to deal with situations like this, which is pleasant. Also, it's quite fun to be this girlscout who is the only one to bring rations or useful tools despite being a pure sorceress, as well as proudly acting like an adventurer in a world where most people would be embarrassed to actually call themselves that.
I feel like we've got a good fight going, and then I need to pause and ask for an ascii map. I guess, to compare it to Dune, that he handwaves a lot of the distance/placement so he gets by easily without any positioning info.
This makes me so sad, because I sincerely and desperately try to make these things clear in the descriptions. Using yesterday's example, I started off by showing how you were all lined up against one wall, with Henrietta personally being directly in front of the door, so when the lizard went to attack Henrietta head on it was one square away from in front of the door, and both my picture and descriptions tried to convey that it wasn't a huge room so the fight was fairly cramped, and after Henrietta backed away, going through the door would have been the only possible route, and so going back into the room at all would have involved passing a square that was threatened by the lizard.
To be honest, it's actually a peeve of mine that in Dune's game we'll be having a fight and I'll be following along where everyone is from the descriptions, and then someone does a full attack they're not entitled to or casts a spell they don't have range/line of sight for, or moves in some way that makes no sense, I really have to bite my tongue not to speak up, and I'm resolved not to let that happen in my own game.
Really, the only way I can do any better on this front is to just go full out with battlegrids.
I think it's why Rat and I wanted so much to RP the renting of a house and settling in, maybe meeting the neighbors. That got kinda handwaved which is a bit sad, but I'm sure there'll be other opportunities for stuff like that!
Sorry, I didn't really get that either of you wanted to specifically roleplay that out. I'm not going to force anyone to RP sidestuff when it might not always be appreciated or welcomed, so you need to be explicit - really, just outright posting in the PbP thread with an opener describing going to introduce yourself to the neighbours or something will prod me into action. However...
I tried to go and explore new parts of the city when I was looking for that monk Brissa painted, wanted to pay another visit to the fun cleric we came across or I tried to go and look up the guards I met the previous night (or even try to meet some trustworthy-seeming guards in their place), and those things were basically summarized, right? The conclusion I can draw from this is that there wasn't anything I could do/nothing new to discover/those would've been boring people and encounters. I'm cool with that, though I'd appreciate a chance to do something else that you think might be fun?
The guards who helped you after your assassination were the night-shift, so genuinely unavailable during the daytime. The monk Brissa painted? I really wanted to do something there, I agonised all week trying to make something interesting about his character or the situation to make up for him being irrelevant to plot, but I just draw a complete blank so gave up and summarised it the day before our session. I enjoy playing the genki Davey Jones priestess, so would have leapt all over a chance to put her out again, but I recall other players saying it didn't need to be RP'd just getting healing mid-session, so I sped things up to keep us moving.
though with how things turned out, maybe she should've reserved her invis? BTW, what was she trying to cast, while blinded?
She's a bard, so spontaneous casting. However she did blow her last 2nd level slot on trying to Shatter Glenn's stuff, which if it had worked would have been a masterstroke, killing all of his alchemist potions, and making the eye-scream poison blow up all over him instead of her. It was his weak save, too, so it really could have changed the course of the fight. When she was blinded she went for Cure Light Wounds, basically a stalling tactic to at least cover the damage from the elemental. She was supposed to use her potion of Gaseous Form and retreat if dropped below 15hp, but she was on 20 when Glenn full attacked her down to 1. If she hadn't been tripped she'd at least have tumbled away before drinking it, but on the ground all she could do was attempt it and pray you guys rolled low.
forgot to say...
and I'm quite pleased with how that whole thing turned out, both in itself and in comparison to the others' own attacks.
You were extremely fortunate that you got woken up in advance, mind you. If they'd gotten the drop on you the way they did with Miranda, while I think you probably could have pulled out a win anyway due to higher hp and more offensive spells, you'd have had a far rougher time of it.
-Placement, maps, etc.
Mind, I don't like the 'sudden full attack' part myself. We're pretty much in agreement there. Just... in this fight's case? I kinda visualized this at the end of the round the Lizard came to attack me:
Wall Rudy
Wall Henrietta Lizard
Wall Glenn
Then I retreated, and then the Lady came to stab Glenn and was with her back to the wall. Glenn was coming from below, so if I wanted to get to the Lady I shouldn't have passed across the Lizard's field, and the wall below was quite a ways off. So it only started to make sense to me that the Lizard would AoO me while it remains near my old position (it came at me, I moved, it didn't), Glenn is near it and the Lady is near Glenn and a wall is if Glenn is actually above the Lizard. Which made zero sense to me, and I just decided not to bog down in it, you know? And I hope you realize what I meant originally about just going with it. Because I doubt the fight would've been fun if I'd halted the game for 5-10 minutes to have this discussion with you at that time.
Anyway, it really comes up a lot, and it's an issue because you consider placement to be important. I'm genuinely sorry about this, but I have problems with visualizing images and placement from text. It's not you, it's me, etc. But regardless of the why, it's still an issue for me, and it still eats at my enjoyment. I brought it up in hopes of fixing things! I do draw some reassurance from not only me showing confusion or asking for a helpful map from time to time in GF. I just happen to be the one who needs it more, and more often.
-PbP thread.
Mmm. See, I pretty much took those reactions to mean that you just weren't interested. Which is fine, since it's extra to the actual game, and some part of me realizes that not everyone likes to game as much as I do. I would seriously feel bad to just post something in PbP without prompting or even so much as a more specific invitation from you (ie 'feel free to post to revisit the genki cleric during downtime' as opposed to the broader 'post in pbp whenever you feel like doing something'). And since feeling bad != having fun gaming, it's really hard to do it on my own initiative. >_>
Right now we need to go visit Lavinia, and to be meta for a sec, since talking to her shouldn't take up our entire session and time is of the essence lest Vanthus escape again, we would need to leave the city and probably not make it back in time for session-end. But once we're back and have the chance to do something, I'd love to see more of the city and encounter more people who I might like. Or seize upon as rivals. Either way.
-Lotus Lady.
I kinda feel bad over how that ended. I was genuine if pretty condescending about the surrender offer, and would've even put myself in harm's way to ensure it was honored. I also think I would've taken it myself if I were in her shoes/if she got the upper hand and offered it. Did she not believe me, or her pride got the better of her? Something else?
-Assassination attempt.
I do think I would have won. It's not just the hp, although it helps a lot, but also my natural boost against poisons and having a wider repertoir than just MM. If I felt truly threatened, as in enough to gamble my life away for a big win, I could've used some other spells or even the surroundings in hopes of stunting. I might've had to flee like Glenn, though I'd still try to pick them off and make it a fighting retreat than just outright fleeing.
And luck's an important skill, too! I'm happy over what happened there, and it was a nice boost to confidence. It seems GF combat either creates or deals away with Henrietta's phobias.
In the specific cases of PbP we talked about, btw? It's true my main goal was to see the same guards, but it was more as an easy tie to guards in general. My main goal there was to find trustworthy guards in the right district in order to see if we could count on them. As for the monk, I think what I was trying to say when I talked about getting a feel of the city through its people, is that these encounters don't actually have to do anything with the plot. It adds to atmosphere, and hey, contacts might come useful some time in the future? I think I'll learn (and have learned) more about the different parts of the city through the people native to them than the architecture and the like. Some places have nicer houses, which is nice. But some places have dudes like Rabbani while others have ladies like Lavinia. That works much better for me!
I kinda visualized this at the end of the round the Lizard came to attack me:
This is what I was going for...
Wall Wall Wall Wall
Wall Rudy
Henrietta Lizard
Wall Lucie Glenn
Wall Lady Rocky
Wall Wall Wall Wall
So after retreating into the doorway, you'd have needed to step back in and then go through Lucie's square to flank with Rocky. Glenn started off in the space below Lucie, then moved up to engage the lizard and made space for the Lady to come in on his South to flank with her pet.
I would seriously feel bad to just post something in PbP without prompting or even so much as a more specific invitation from you
That's fair enough, I get where you're coming from. But we're both in #e all the time, so if it's appropriate in the overall game situation you can just ask and I can put up an introductory post to kick us off instead.
It is fundamentally limited on me having fun stuff to fill in. I tried so hard with that monk, "Uh, he's a monk of Apollo... got a painting to send home to his family... thought Brissa was pretty... um... fuck... what else?" and then it was Saturday and we had a session the next day and I didn't want to bog us down so I quickly tossed up a summary. I feel bad about that one but I genuinely couldn't come up with anything interesting about the guy.
But once we're back and have the chance to do something, I'd love to see more of the city and encounter more people who I might like
One way or another we're soon going to end the 'Chase Vanthus' plot, so you guys will have a bit more freedom to pursue that kind of stuff and other less pressing adventures after Griffin Reef.
Did she not believe me, or her pride got the better of her? Something else?
She didn't trust you guys much, between trying to set up an ambush with the Cobra Fangs to dick her over, and then changing the terms of the deal as she saw it to loot her after she'd told you were Vanthus was. It may have been smart to shout 'I surrender' then quickly drink the potion and flee when your guard was down, but between her native distrust and pride, coupled with flat out not thinking straight when she's on the ground being eaten and bludgeoned, she gambled and lost.
Okay, I see now. I eхpected there to be a lot more space below until we hit the wall, and I didn't think at the time that we were literally with our backs to the wall from the left. I kinda figured I retreated below, and that I actually had the space to do it, naturally. I do wonder if it would be difficult to do some very basic maps with the chessboard as a basis? With the placement the way you describe it now, I have to wonder why Glenn and Lucie did not end up flanking the lizard. Would you guys have, if you knew which squares you were on, where it was relative to you two, and which path to flank it was safe?
It's kinda amusing, in a bad way, that I actually misunderstood her originally. I figured the deal was that she gets to leave, not that she gets to leave with her stuff. Ah well. I blame Rudy, as should we all.
So I just want to say that last session was absolutely great, and also that this cannot be said enough. It was a fitting capstone to our first run of adventures~
Best 1,000gp ever spent. I am in awe.
What those guys said.
Wow, you guys have been going for over a year now. Rock on Ebiris and crew. =) Just had to poke my nose in a give you guys a cheer.