G'dammit, why haven't we had a general discussion topic yet? I blame rat. He's very blamable.
Plan for this week. Lets roll. :P
12:58 Dracos_at_work Our drow commander will bring her slaves into the exchange.
12:58 Dracos_at_work While our mouse secret agent assassinates the dao president.
Nothing could go wrong with this.
Serious strategy talk, Drac?
Possibly. I'm joking, but...
Sneaking into a slave exchange using a drow matron wanting to buy new slaves or some such sounds like a very viable way of getting in there while off their guard. Some collars or bracers or things for the look and feel. A good escape plan when we need to get 10-100 humans out after slaughtering a group of surprised Dao. Adail could totally be our surprise ace, hiding and scurrying around near us as we go in, manuvering to go examine the cages, the locks whatever, while Mari talks to the dao to get information on our human slaves that we're totally going to purchase from them. Given those things, I'd totally go with it. :D
Both knight and Kamvakua can make very plausible guard slaves. Get Zeph a good illusion or disguise spell and have him cringe around mari and it'll be all the more plausible.
Heck an illusion on Kamvakua of a drider might even take it further. But I think our illusionist got axed a while ago :P I have no idea btw, how good the dao are in general at seeing through deception. I can't find any statistics on them around, so we'll have to go the old fashion "Gather Information, find out the best deception plan~"
Luckily, Diplotank Nikki is good at getting drunk :)
Also Nikki can probably provide the magical dwoemer for our chains or collars or whatever to make it look real. Heck, we might even be able to bluff them when we do attack that it's just a slave going wild or whatnot so they don't quite realize its a full fledged ambush in the first round or two, and potentially don't call for help~ :D
A cunning plan.
Will the rest of the PCs go for it? Will Mari become human again? Will Nikkolai get Knight and Mari drunk enough to have fun?
We'll find out!
/amsg "... LEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOY JEEEEEEEEEEEEEEENKIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINS!"
Go for it? *Whistles*
:P
Seriously though, what do you guys think of the TOTALLY INSANE PLAN? :D
I'd wondered about exploiting Mari's condition in some useful manner, yeah. This actually sounds pretty reasonable. We don't have any idea how many dao are in there or their strength, so having some excuse to chat them up and have mighty mouse sneak in and look around before resorting to violence is probably a good idea anyway (especially with heavy gravity making that hard for all of us).
Don't encourage Mari too much here, she might start to like it.
Don't encourage the hot drow roguey? I don't understand.
Mmm, maybe I've been listening to Zevran too often :P
But yeah, we should be able to have Nikki shine as the information gathering monster he can be if he puts his mind to it, which should resolve most of our lack of prior intelligence on the Dao and the Drow issues. :)
I would endorse this plan (and it gives Knight an excuse to shut up and say nothing for a session or two.)
We should do some research in town beforehand to find out if there are any Drow cities in this plane, or if there are any portals that go to locations near the same. Good for our cover story.
I'm game for doing the spy bit, certainly. Burrowing speed+stealth skillz+great Listen check makes me pretty good for it.
Are we winning?
It's messy.
Long story short: the dao figured out what we're up to and we either have to fight our way up from the bottom of their compound or find some way to BS out of this. There may or may not also be an erinyes around that we have to contend with (who may be just as much a problem for the dao as for us, which is something to think about).
Since we had one of the dao with us at the end of the session--badly wounded and intimidated--our best option probably lies in finding some way to use him to facilitate our exit. If all else fails...well, we were in the dao's dungeon at session's end; if it comes down to fighting our way out, we can take the wounded dao's key, open up the cells, and see if anyone there could be useful in busting out. Further violence probably isn't desirable though--we passed a lot of guards on our way in here and we'd have our work cut out for us.
We should probably settle on a course of action before next session, since we left off basically right before we had to come up with an escape plan.
EDIT to note that the existence of an erinyes is certain, it's just that she vanished right at session's end and she could have dimension door'd out or just turned invisible on us.
Logs up.
My thoughts: Yeah, let's keep the dao on a short leash and get out of there. If the erinyes goes to get dao help, we're in bad shape anyway. Hopefully she decided to just cut her losses there (nearly getting killed and having her minions turn on her) and that she is secret from the other dao as anything but a slave. If she really does have more dao in her pocket, she could easily screw us without even showing up again for an encounter.
Technically, assuming an intelligent enemy, I'd bet she'd both hold a grudge and not want to immediately face us again without the cards stacked more her way. Another 6-12 seconds and she would've been giblets if she hadn't teleported away. The small area left no where for her to snipe from and she had no useful allies to lean on in it. The dao aren't likely to be a good enough card excepting where she can just conveniently direct them to us to hope they finish the job.
Hum, I forgot to hit enter and post this. Our best result really at this point is bullying said dao until we're out of there, and knowing he's an enemy from there out :P
Miscellania!
You guys levelled up. For Rat since you weren't there: Get me before you do any levelling up. I think you're just taking pure fighter anyway, but y'know. I wanna be there for HD rolling and other stuff.
feedback on recent sessions as requested:
Granny Tam was amusing...though a bit too estoric/shadow creature that made it odd. I admit I would've liked some shadowy figure to come out at least, or some kind of illusion or whatnot. It was a little disconcerting effectively talking at 'everywhere'. The whole super illusion crafting and silliness and eccentricy was fun though glad I didn't get hit with it. :P
Dao rescuing was cool. It being some but not all combat was cool. That my crazy plan got to get used was fun and that there wasn't too much hole poking in it (Yes, it was made of straw, fine whatever) was appreciated. I liked how it generally turned out. The bit where we got to play simultaneous social and physical challenges was very neat. Hard to pull off usually, so cool that it happened. More of that kind of stuff encouraged if you find opportunities for.
Devil was cool. I hope there be grudges held, maneuvers, and all that kind of fun stuff. :) Short, and without enough fodder types really. But it was an intro, that was fine, and I suspect we overdid your estimate on how fast we could lay out damage. Generally a nice intro, excepting that she neither got named or got a chance to SWEAR VENGENCE or anything.
I really suck at 'ask for random thing' bits. Not a huge fan of them because I suck at them. I much prefer 'select from semirandom loot' or something. I tend to find it hard because it isn't scoped (What number is the other side thinking for a reasonable return, I don't know!) and it instantly puts me in challenging what my character should know for asking about items (always vague and ephermal for me) versus what I know (I know practically every damn item in the books). I don't particularly like trying to figure that out which is why I tend to toss up loot ideas for interest and generally try and see about basing my characters purchases or finds based on what's interesting that the DM makes available and present. Thanks for playing along with my fail on that, but yeah. :) I don't have such issues with select among random unknown options, but when it's 'ask for what you want' I find that painful generally to do in character. In general, I don't like having my characters being experts on magical artifacts that aren't introduced narratively in the game world because then it always is a clash between what they might know and what the gameworld really reflects (Okay, so they know about magic armor that deflects critical hits, but the game world doesn't have any available, so where did they hear about such an uncommon item anyway?)
Last session we had a splitsecond confusion bit for going to rest. I think unless there's a good reason, we should be encouraged to just rest at night and not give any dramatic writeup of what folks who don't rest do to pass the time. Some of it was ooc, as I think it was guessed that zeph was going to sleep :P
Next mission, while neat and different, does feel a bit isolating. At a glance it seems like something that's better for a solo agent in most cases. Part of the reason is that at a glance it seems overconstrained. For instance, if it were say, finding her in a slm in a big relatively neutral city with an evil mafia type lead by said devil, that'd feel more like an intro many of us could participate. But if the whole town is evil efreets who we're to avoid hostile interaction with as well as a devil we're supposed to avoid encountering as well, it seems like it becomes almost a pure stealth mission, which there's such a disparity of ability in the party there, it's almost better not to participate so as not to drag the stealthy types down.
Some opportunity for actual party combat with space would be nice to see. The generally constrained encounter spaces hasn't allowed for much interesting tactics (Use strongest ability, whammy). Though that is a hell of a lot harder to run online, so I understand. I'm more biased here because I'm particularly playing a space controlling character now, which is a bit irrelevant without space to control.
backseatgm/shootme thought: It looks like we're getting a bit behind on wealth per level. We're at about 78-80 percent expected. Not really a problem, as it helps encourage fewer/neater loot, but just a poke because I love shiny toys. ;)
any feedback back the other way?
We're in the elemental plane of earth. There is no night!
eh. Whatever. We were at the 'camp after adventure' phase and folks were confused as some people tried to dramatize it. So we stumbled around as others felt obligated to follow the people that weren't sleeping because otherwise they'd have to sit around and wait.
It's a lot better that if any of us are taking a rest, that all of us do.
So we're going to the plane of magma?
Sounds fun, anyone selling potions in the town?
Granny tam probably?
What are you thinking?
We have, collectively, 4-6 endure element spells a day if we want between Adail and me.
I'm looking out for Resist Fire, as in the thing that provides Fire Resistance. >_>
As I understand the scenario (Maybe wrong):
If we fight the Efreets, we have hit a losing condition with our employer.
If we fight the devil, we have hit a losing condition with our employer.
Ergo, if we need fire resistance rather than Endure Elements, we are already losing.
But hey, preparation isn't bad.
Sorry if my "Adail wanders about while others rest" thing was causing confusion. Had no intention of RPing that out at all, it's just that he *does not sleep* and I was keeping in character with that. I'll continue to have him do stuff like that, but we can just assume that no, it's not meant to actually go off and do anything solo. He doesn't sleep, so he goes off and does something else instead, etc, move on to morning.
So yeah, wasn't "trying to dramatize it" or anything like that, just trying to keep in character. I know I have a miserable enough time trying to lie down and rest when I'm not sleepy, I can only imagine how bad it must get for someone who doesn't sleep at all!
My understanding is that we're going to a plane made of fire, and we've had random encounters before. >_>
Quote from: Gatewalker on December 03, 2009, 06:52:49 PM
Sorry if my "Adail wanders about while others rest" thing was causing confusion. Had no intention of RPing that out at all, it's just that he *does not sleep* and I was keeping in character with that. I'll continue to have him do stuff like that, but we can just assume that no, it's not meant to actually go off and do anything solo. He doesn't sleep, so he goes off and does something else instead, etc, move on to morning.
So yeah, wasn't "trying to dramatize it" or anything like that, just trying to keep in character. I know I have a miserable enough time trying to lie down and rest when I'm not sleepy, I can only imagine how bad it must get for someone who doesn't sleep at all!
Heh, didn't mean to offend ya, Gate. Sorry about that. I didn't think you did anything wrong, was just observing that it did confuse folks, and thus it might be better to just assume it is happening rather than write it (No less than most the party tried to follow you on your nightly escapades!).
Quote from: Carthrat on December 03, 2009, 08:30:11 PM
My understanding is that we're going to a plane made of fire, and we've had random encounters before. >_>
As always, well prepared.
Granny Tam has two potions of fire resistance. She'll sell them to you at the SRD standard price. If you want to look for more fire resistance or purchases elseware, let me know and I'll have you make a GI check or do some poking around for it.
If you purchase the offered pair of potions, post so in the loot thread.
Do magical short/longbows allow you to add your full strength mod to damage, or do they need the same mighty modification as normal ones?
Quote from: Carthrat on December 06, 2009, 09:57:51 PM
Do magical short/longbows allow you to add your full strength mod to damage, or do they need the same mighty modification as normal ones?
I've always ignored that part and just applied strength to long/short bows no matter what. I should probably add this as a house rule, since I do it without thinking about it.
Probably should be dex as the mod rather than strength, but that's a pretty nice house rule. :)
It's Monday!
Last call to do shit for prep for Tuesday's session!
Oh, before I forget again: Zeph, did you ever get anything out of that Time book you were studying? I think it got lost in the shuffle.
I don't think he did, but I don't think he remembered to read this to see~ :P
So how was last session?
:D
my whining about not getting to fight the salamanders last session was completely resolved (yay dune). Actually, from a getting to use character abilities standpoint, the session was totally awesome. I got to use my denial trip setups in an effective manner, I got to use my wrathful rage, I got to use my improved flanking, I got to take advantage of high speed, I got to smite evil, etc etc. That's awesome. Personally I prefer encounters which are still challenging while allowing ability usage to those that have much of their challenge from negating it. Even though, improved trip as an offense and defense is brutally powerful.
I was somewhat disappointed that the salamanders didn't join in with the fire elemental (as that might've made a much more dangerous fight), but even though we slammed through them, they did do quite a bit of damage still, so good on them. Man did hatebot try and stop me from tripping them. 'I roll a 2 for 21'. "I roll a 18, for 20!"
The risk game you offered Mari at the end was neat, as was the Dune Style benefit :). Nikkolai poisoning himself was stupid, but amusing. It was neat that we got an alignment argument going closing it off.
Overall, for a session that was almost all combat, it was pretty awesome. :)
I will give a huh moment at the salamander formation. I found it kind of strange for a militaryish outfit to do a line of spear men rather than some 2 and 3 or circular formation as it meant at most only two of them could attack at a time without breaking their setup.
Also, Detect Poison twice on Zeph and wisdom checks to figure out what type. DC 20 huh. :( Oh well. I wonder if someone can aid on figuring that out? :P The first roll almost makes it.
<Maya_Mahabala> roll 1d20+2
<Hatbot> ACTION --> "Maya_Mahabala rolls 1d20+2 and gets 18." [1d20=16]
<Maya_Mahabala> roll 1d20+2
<Hatbot> ACTION --> "Maya_Mahabala rolls 1d20+2 and gets 6." [1d20=4]
Yes, I was quite silly in poisoning myself. But to be fair, I was full of cold medicene and pretty sleepy.
Maybe Granny Tam will take pity on me and change me back to a man since I'm incapacitated?
Mmm, btw, I know I've been totally forgetting the plane penalty. I hope ko was silently applying it, but if not, can Kotono give us a reminder early each session with those? I don't even remember what it was, probably a minus 1 to attack.
We really had lots of modifiers flying around yesterday :)
To be honest I forgot. I don't think it changed anything too much though. That's a good idea, Drac. Remind me to start doing that next session.
Quote from: Zephyrus on December 16, 2009, 02:33:47 PM
Yes, I was quite silly in poisoning myself. But to be fair, I was full of cold medicene and pretty sleepy.
Maybe Granny Tam will take pity on me and change me back to a man since I'm incapacitated?
Only if she changes me back to a human. Otherwise, you'll keep your pigtails and you'll like them.
Meow!
I want a mount.
Are they selling any in Hardsoil?
The portal to Air isn't far. We could always go back and retrieve your actual mount(s)?
But said mount WILL laugh at you for leaving it behind once already and forgetting it has perfectly functional hooves.
Mari: Maybe. Dune, is it practical to get either mount through the portal and down the pit we made to Hardsoil?
Drac: Yes, well, next time we go to a plane that is made of caves, I'll assume they're all large enough for a horse to fit into and get around (never mind a pegasus). You must realise I had some pretty strong concerns about practicality, right?
I didn't say I would. I said the mount would :P
The practicality argument is still pretty solid, even with the fact we've constantly been in areas with enough room for a large creature to move. That said, it's going to be a practicality argument in most planes, excepting the horse getting special equipment as a party member would to deal with it (We're going to the fire plane. Huh, the horse needs endure elements too? And protection against drowning for the water plane? Can he even fly underwater?)
Well, with stuff like inimically hostile planes, presumably it needs stuff no different to the rest of us. As for the water plane, um, I'll find a riding dolphin or something?
Maybe I should invest in pokeballs. >_>
Knight, aren't you a pokemon(Outsider)? Can Pokemon have their own pokemon?
I'm totally a humanoid!
If I was an outsider, I wouldn't need to sleep and that'd be cool.
Quote from: Carthrat on December 16, 2009, 06:19:26 PM
Mari: Maybe. Dune, is it practical to get either mount through the portal and down the pit we made to Hardsoil?
You could but it would take a bit of work. Once he got down to the passage to Hardsoil it would be very doable. Note that much of Earth can be narrow, the sections you've been in have been relatively wide and accommodating. You haven't had to dig your own paths ahead, either.
Knight's type is Outsider(Native, Pokemon, SEIBA), if you're curious.
Hey, since we all wander around the planes, wouldn't that make us all vulnerable to banishment/dismissal stuff?
In theory yes. Whenever you're on a plane that isn't your native one, you have the extraplanar subtype. Banishment and Dismissal can return you back to whence you came.
Hmm. Well, Knight is probably from Limbo, or some random prime material plane. (ravenloft!!1)
As for horsing around, well, the gravity thing makes it pretty harsh as well, but... let's make an inquiry with the caravan as to our route? If they think a horse won't pose a significant problem, I'd be up for it- after all, I guess they have wagons and stuff so moving bulky things around would be a necessary consideration.
And if it in a downwards direction, that's important too.
(psst GI/K:P people, help me with this!)
I was gonna say that any caravan routes likely follow (relatively) safe, manageable passages. As long as we can get an animal to Hardsoil, we're probably good.
Not ot derail the conversation going on right now, but how do you guys feel each of you is doing in battle?
Adequately! Though I look forward to next level when I can potentially start dealing 24d6+8 (+4 fire!) damage a round. Mari's pretty straightforward, so there's not a ton to say. I should do something about my AC. It's pretty unspecial when not buffed.
I boggle sometimes at the shenanigans Kam pulls out, but stretching the system to do crazy shit just seems to be Drac's thing.
I thought I was doing pretty good, but then I had to see what happens when I'm next to Kamvakua and I'm not mounted. It sort of bummed me out how completely and utterly he dominated me (and everyone else's) performance in combat.
For all I know Knight was doing the same thing to other people beforehand, but I've always keenly felt my deficiencies, so.
Also: Cid, probably true, but it's an effort-free task to confirm (and the direction is important to me, too!)
I'm doing fine. Adail is honestly a project character, so his specialty for now(ahahaha hit me or make me roll a save I dare you) is perfect. And other folks bring the damage I lack, so it's all good.
EDIT: Hey Dune, can we arrange for Adail to learn some kind of Shoryuken attack somehow? ^_^
I went from non-combatant glass Miss Slaughtered (A good 6+ attribute points behind party average) to WELCOME TO THE SLAUGHTERHOUSE, TAKE A RIDE ON THE KAMTRAIN (leading the party notably and twinked with assistance for maximized asskicking)? It's pretty awesome as much as there's a lot less for me to do outside of combat than before and I don't generally take the angle that I should get to be super awesome at skills, combat, and diplomacy.
Frankly, yes, I torture the system when given a chance. I really hope that's not a problem. :) I have fun with the game from a tactical standpoint. Builds like kamvakua are, unlike wizards, not flexible generally to changing to nerf their area, but inside their area are brutally effective. Ayane was a similar style of build, based around improved disarm rather than improved trip, but in either case, I've always taken the stance that to really be effective, you need to be mostly focused towards your combat 'trick' being effectively always usable wherever it'd make sense to use.
Knight's trick, weirdly, is not used very often, and with a significant portion of rat's resources and character build sunk into it, it's really not surprising at all that you feel uncompetitive there. :(
As others have mentioned, I feel super effective in combat. It's neat. :) AC and saving throws scares me though. Despite having hundreds of hp, practically nothing ever misses me and it's really a battle of time taking out the enemies before they can dish enough damage out. Despite my brutal effectiveness, I've taken the lion's share of damage back from enemies and pretty much anything that can get through my circle of death is up for happy times as far as stabbing me (Raging AC -3 takes a middling ac right into poor. charging lowers it below to hit for many enemies). I really could use Knight being up front using her 10 points higher AC to deflect some of that damage away to nothing. I could also use more meaningful healing around. Either way, probably going to sink actually gained resources into defense. It's impossible to have a good defense with Kamvakua, but hopefully something moderate.
Character wise, I've been leading the charge with Kamvakua more than I would've liked and using rage more than I would've liked. I wanted to play him more conservatively (Yeah, I'm not that conservative), which was somewhat of the focus of his combat build and what was done with the salamanders (Do less damage in exchange for less risk, but still be able to extinguish and weaken combat potential). I probably shouldn't have immediately used it on the salamanders but was still going with Dune's passed along 'these guys are dangerous' mantra. I wanted to, and still want to, play more supportive/cooperative with Kamvakua. He has a fair bit of his build based around it with knocking folks down for others to dish out free hits on, or joining in on flanks with Mari (Yay for first flank since he joined the party~) or playing giant and small guy with Adail. I may try and reduce using rage in general even though it is a core build component until we actually take real damage (Which I suppose Kamvakua had or we were in genuine danger both times...).
Anyhow, thoughts on others...
Knight I commented on a bit above, but I think rat's had trouble shining a little for a lot of reasons. The plane alignment hinders his heavy armor based build more than the rest of us, even if we haven't paid much attention to it. Us having to chase enemies rather than enemies coming to us really advantages the speed based fighters over knight (Who barely got to enter the last couple of battles). Her combat trick has largely been neutralized in almost every fight (and that's really more than 15 percent of the build there). Her high ac is irrelevant in light of how few attacks actually come her way (When she should be able to wade safely into things the rest of us fear by having such a ridiculously high AC). Even her preparedness having ranged arsenal doesn't end up mattering as we face enemies who require magic weapons to do much of anything (and she doesn't have a magic crossbow). In other words, we've been doing a lot of fights where her advantages are nerfed and her disadvantages (Slow speed, lesser damage dealing, no special techniques on foot) are accented. I don't think this is a build problem so much as an environment one and a resources one, worsened by the fact Knight has sunk all resources so far into things she hasn't gotten to use.
Mari I think has been doing pretty adequately. I think you really have average AC rather than low, but I can understand wanting it higher. Her challenge is not being able to flank quite enough, but she still does do it and lays out tremendous damage when she does. She's a very solid rogue build really.
Nikkolai has gotten a couple of changes to abuse his diplotanking. That's pretty cool, and he should keep doing that. His haste really is helping make combat a lot more rapid pace than it'd other wise be. I think if he keeps going with area Buffs and damage spells he can't really go very wrong.
Adail has been largely on clean up duty the last few fights. It's hard for him to really do much else as his average total damage of 6.5 puts him well below both knight and Kamvakua's strength mod alone. He can't flank or threaten, which significantly limits his ability to have much tactical influence. He's a defensive beast, but as he's so tiny and can barely attract threat, it doesn't really come into play too often. He has lots of minor utility, but really, without some levels and offensive boosts, he's really just best to abuse his magic missile (which at least averages 10.5 damage and never misses). I think he's having fun with it regardless though as he's the type that is a good support guy :)
there, the draconian over-analysis. and gate posts and proves my thoughts :)
Yeah, Drac summed it up pretty nicely. The plane has been inimical to me BUT I MUST GO THERE and so will struggle on. The only real way I feel comfortable here is by micromanaging myself in order to tweak every tiny little advantage out I can get out of the situation, and I naturally love to plan things out and plot strategy against my enemies in most games anyway.
I was thinking, and when Drac talks about Kam's build being defensive and more about denial than aggression, it's all relative. He looks very offensive to me on foot. I'm sure it will be the opposite when I'm not (a pegasus equipped with horseshoes of speed has a fly speed of 150ft, and I don't need to say how nuts that is.) I do think he's far more, I dunno, 'pick up and go' than Knight, able to function very well in most situations. Whereas his optimum is a closed space that bogs enemies down, Knight's is an open one with room to move. But I think he does better in her area than she does in his by an insane margin (and isn't limited by needing a mount there.) HOWEVER she has as-of-yet unknown exciting magical powers to acquire BUT he has spellcasting and uh I think it's all going to work out eventually, honestly, but we're so not going to another enclosed plane after we're done in the Earth.
By the way, Knight is becoming claustrophobic.
Regarding Knight/Kam: Yeah, some of it is situational and bad luck, though I think Kam's a touch too optimized here as well. We'll see how it works out.
Notably, we left a plane where I technically have lots of disadvantages quickly (Everyone has decent move and perfect fly eliminates trip as an ability which eliminates my main combat trick) and set up to spend lots of time in a plane where I'm not getting disadvantaged by it and knight is getting totally nerfed.
I do get magic as things go on, but frankly the magic options are almost borderline pointless (Excepting the level 2 buff spells, but really, purchased potions or Nikkolai could do the same, and probably better). They mostly don't even include heal spells, which suck as I could really use the ability to patch myself up after a fight. The nasty upcoming thing will be greater rage and intimidating rage, which will generally leave all enemies constantly under the shaken debuff and let me dig myself into even a greater hole. That said, the debuff something that benefits the party as a whole really and is a major feature of the PrC.
I think rat's slightly wrong in as much as we haven't had to mostly deal with truly claustrophobic setups much. The xorn and the succubi both were some, and one went terribly and the other could've as well. He's right, lots of obstacles help Kam. I tend to think that Kamvakua's best setup is generally a 50-150 start range, with having reach advantage over his foes and preferrably a high, but present, ceiling so he doesn't have to deal with a lack of 3d attacks or space concerns if he rages. He's been getting that on the last 2 sessions, and some of that just always since he's been made, only two fights starting in 30 foot start range.
Knight, off horseback, needs folks starting no further than 40 feet out. If they are further, she can't even reach them to attack the first round. A 100-200 foot distance and she's huffing and puffing to even arrive before Kamvakua, Mari, and Adail have ended the fight. Truthfully, Knight off horseback is a suboptimal human fighter with very good stats and some magical special abilities that will continue to take her further above a normal human fighter. But she's no more than that. It's barely competitive with Mari (Who's outdamaged her in the last few fights I believe, has double her foot speed, and gets rogue level skills) much less Kamvakua.
Knight on horseback wants wide open spaces to a degree that completely evaporates the notion of obstacles. She wants 500+ foot ceilings, 200-500 foot start distances, and the ability to separate and anhillate enemies from an obnoxiously unhittable standpoint (You can't even dispel magic as her flight isn't magical and she'll laugh at physical attacks coming her way.). It's basically magic or a set pike (Good luck, knight has extra high to hit AND ac. She has a good reason to take this bet repeatedly) or go home when she's on her new horse in her preferred environment. She has 150 foot fly + full attack or 300 foot flying charge or ranged arsenal from above. Her horse gets to join in as well as she attacks adding a moderate bit of extra damage. On her flying horse, she's potentially on an entirely different stage of combat than the rest of the party.
Rat is totally right that odds are pretty much better to favor me given random unfavorable terrain (The planes in general). Both of us are likely to have things nerfed, but I fall back to a barbarian with very high stats and reach and rat falls back to a fighter with high stats and several irrelevant feats. The advantage is generally barbarians when fighters have their feats nerfed. Of course, as rat gets more supernatural spell effects, that will become less and less true.
The elemental planes, while neat, are generally more hostile to knight's build than the rest of us, just by the general rules of how penalties are applied and the fact that 'large open sky' is apparently rare on 3/4th of the elemental planes. The celestial planes, while probably inappropriate for game direction, are very favorable to knight's build generally.
Anyhow, maybe I shouldn't yammer off a midnight flight :P But the general flow does make me sad and annoyed, but maybe I'm overreacting(Yes, analytical, but I do totally do that :P). My instant thought over it is I'm going to be encouraged to ignore Knight trying to RP sensibly about the constrained environment and suggest we always bring the horse and thus self-select routes that allow the horse, because without it these questions show right up. I already did so jokingly, but now I have extra incentive to say it's a bad idea to go somewhere she can't bring her horse. anyhow, yammer yammer.
Ok! I think I've just set up a high-stakes gamble over weapons. Or at least a trade.
What I've got on the table is a Magmacore, the 700gp that belongs to me alone, and the roughly 2.5k in the party loot area. I can see not wanting to gamble that last bit, but does anyone have an objecting to me staking/selling/bartering the magical spear away?
Additionally, a witness for the game/trade would be nice, and I'm thinking I could ask Mari or Nikki to come along.
Go for it with the spear, sure.
It's exotic and awesomely different. Go for it. But bring Mari AND Kamvakua at least. One for cunning, one for 'you ain't running with our loot'.
Oh, and Win.
This'll happen early in Tuesday's session, guys. Between that and talking/resolving stuff and a few other odds and ends we'll be busy. What we may do is have you guys split into two groups and deal with things at the same time for faster progress. What else is on your agenda? I figure the discussion over the soul needs to be done together, then...?
I'm fine with Adail and Nikkolai handling the soul talk if they want? :P
Eh. Let's see the agenda.
Fixing Nikkolai (Or is this handwaved?)
The gambling thing with Knight.
Dividing the remainder (Not a big deal)
Heading back to magma thing so Adail and Mari can do their thing?
Not sure what else is on it? What am I missing?
Okay, if you guys wanna get together to chat and so some RPing on your own initiative feel free. Doubly so since i may miss next session.
Feedbacky~
Anyhow, last session was much improved from the previous one (Which I voiced my problems on there). The encounters were lively, and dare I say, the shopkeeper encounter was quite charming. It set a good tone as far as future interactions go that I know I'll at least have the expectation that 'Evil City!=everyone trying to kill good guys in it', which is good as the previous expectation was something that excluded me and adail really from participating effectively and this one allows for more wacky interactions to happen. The opener really was a good job by the way as far as "look, I won't have them auto-attack you if you aren't doing stupid shit" that set the tone well for the rest of the session.
Overall, I think you were really on the ball last night and ran a great session. As a party we also did well in having some interesting social interactions go on and not treating the city like a series of devils to kill, always good.
Also, now Kamvakua wants to hunt kraken someday. It sounds awesome and he's never done it. He will drag the party aboard a ship to fiercely hunt down the White Squid, which Knight vaguely recalls being at some point for some reason.
Because I'm a horrible monster, observed neutral/negative feedback:
The charm scene was awesome, but really only had room for one person to be on the stage. While the multi charm brainwashing was neat in a lot of ways, I think it tends to be a complicated enough setup that one is enough. I think this was reflected in him just giving up after losing on knight rather than taking the rest of us (which he had pretty good odds to do really). Anyhow, Knight took the stage here, did an awesome job, and now we will always think of her as pretty magikal Knight, Knight. We will expect that her next fullplate has a skirt attached because she is pretty in battle.
SLA Charm stuff, sadly, is rather hard to counter. It generally is either 'instafail' or 'instawin' in its nature. I think the intent of charm person is that folks are supposed to get cha roll bonuses when given orders against their own interests but that's only covered by descriptive prose (oh it's very hard to do~) and not by actual direction in the spell. Nothing wrong with it, made a good scene, but yeah, observationally, there really was no reason that fat demon couldn't have decided at any point to finish the job and just take us all really. Nikkolai should really take some notes as a cha based character, that said we might stab him if he tried :P
Kamvakua is good at playing a guard. That said, I would enjoy a break from it. While he'd continue going along with it,
from an OOC stand point I'd like a break from setups that are primed for us miming being around a single powerful type (E.g. Heading toward more neutralish areas than hives of Evil for a bit should do fine for this.) Truthfully, I wouldn't mind some narrative sage type opportunities, though I suppose I haven't been fishing for them. I should finish up my background sometime :P
Getting caught up when we came out of the portal with micromanaging travel down a straight path was bad. *whaps gently with the newspaper* Personal preference is just to read the flow and decide. I don't think anyone in the party would've particularly blinked an eye if you said we were anywhere along that path and threw an encounter at us. We had no map, no special strategy aside going forward, and generally that's for the best, it allows you to say whatever you want when the dice comes up about what we're traveling through at the moment and as we're not micromanaging the fine details, we won't have a 'what, but we were going to sleep here and oh no we would've been, blah blah'.
Setup wise, I think we let it be overdone on intro. I guess that's mostly my fault in retrospect, but I think the Evil Danger Enemies were overstated in the intro (Heck, we didn't even cross a single efreet the whole trip! It was a city of only devils as far as we saw). The delivery target was neither under really lock and key or whatever we were trafficking very obviously bad at least as far as they city reacted to us. It probably could've been couched more as the courier task into dangerous territory that it was. But yeah, that's also granny tam, which is a setup where we don't ask too many questions up front because magic spells are being flung at us as she gets bored :P.
Yesssss there's not a lot us mere mortals can do against charmspam. It kinda means any magical tingling is going to be met with lethal force from now on, which is a bit sad but probably necessary. Or at least saying, very loudly, "Someone is fucking with my head!"
Really not sure what Mari wants as a reward at this point. She's probably due for something frivolous and superficial* (actually, she sort of wants to talk to Granny at length about her options, but that requires the presence of Dune), but talking it over could be fun. Going drinking with Knight also still needs to happen, especially now that Knight has discovered her PRETTINESS. Also grudging expression of gratitude to Nik if he's around.
*(Though something that will prevent possible future mind-rape is also tempting)
Mindrape is difficult to defend against absolutely. Existing solutions... Buy potions of protection from (alignment), mindrape stops functioning whilst spells like that are active; a scroll of magic circle against (whatever) does the same thing for a group at a time, which could be handy when force-feeding a potion to a happily dominated patsy isn't an option.
Then we have until the spell runs out to murder the person responsible.
Actually, the problem with it is that the defenses and effect of it are absolutes generally, thus very limited spread absolute defense, and equally stuff that's either "oh you been FUCKED" or 'No effect whatsoever'. There's little notion of mental damage, degree of success and the books don't give good guidelines as far as what's harder to do or not. So it is just as hard to charm someone and encourage them to be slightly more reckless by telling them how awesome they are as it is to suggest that they should go join the blood war aside from DM step in.
Pretty much. I don't have a good clean solution, though.
Clearly, though, the Eoris sheet should factor into it, somehow.
Charm spells can be brutal rape, no doubt. While I agree the current paradigm has some issues, I'm not looking to revamp it. I do plan to use it sparingly, since mass charm into a bad situation is kinda vicious of me.
It doesn't really bother me since there are in-world ways to counteract it.
I don't know what our immediate plans are, but whether I can take him along or not, I need to go visit Bell before we start any new long journeys.
Quote from: Carthrat on January 03, 2010, 10:02:49 PM
I don't know what our immediate plans are, but whether I can take him along or not, I need to go visit Bell before we start any new long journeys.
Noted.
---
By the way, this game has been reasonably combat light so far. Do you guys want more combat? I've avoided dungeons as much as humanely possible.
I actually haven't minded or felt we were that combat light. I think we've done on average two combats per three sessions. I do enjoy combat and all being a combat badass type, but yeah, seems like it's going alright :)
Dungeons are whether you want to run them really. Not entirely sure they fit thusfar.
Quote from: Dracos on January 03, 2010, 10:14:03 PM
I actually haven't minded or felt we were that combat light. I think we've done on average two combats per three sessions. I do enjoy combat and all being a combat badass type, but yeah, seems like it's going alright :)
Dungeons are whether you want to run them really. Not entirely sure they fit thusfar.
I'm trying to avoid hack'n'slash dungeons altogether. I'd rather have social interactions and planar hijinks, not crawling. The only one I can really think of is the air maze - granted, the Planes lend themselves to some amazing designs.
If you want to run dungeons, go ahead. I'm really not having a problem with the planar hijinks nor the use of semi-random encounters and villians with a grudge as a source of combat so far :)
I'm not saying I really want to. Read a few posts up. <_<
As long as combat has context, I'm fine with it. But I don't want to just get into random fights, unless we actually go somewhere where random fights happen (Ysgard, planes full of predators, etc). It's far more fun to fight for something than to just fight, or to have some small combat be clearly part of a bigger picture, such as an ongoing feud or a long-term operation to accomplish some goal. It's putting your life on the line, nobody takes that lightly (even if they enjoy it, yes I know Knight is a blood knight who goes to an arena for fun and profit.)
Ditto on dungeons. I'm against exploring lethal deathtraps just because. I'm all for exploring them because they contain things we need.
Re: Combat levels - Actually I think we're pretty good here where we are. Fighting every game is by no means nessesary for me to have fun, y'know?
Re: Dungeon Crawlin' - IIRC, you're already aware of my oppinion on classic dungeon crawling antics, which is somewhere between "meh" and "oh god not again". The very occasional one with a good reason for being there is fine, but I really don't care for them being the focus point of games. Planar hijinx is also so much more amusing in general anyway.
In short, the way things are going now is a-okay by me~
What those other guys said.
To reiterate what others have said, I'm perfectly happy with how things are being run at the moment. I think the game is a very nice mixture of light combat and character interaction, which is mostly what I enjoy in games.
Okay, what's your guy's todo list while in Stratusberg?
We're probably here for a few days.
I'll pick up Bell, and I don't know. Duking it out in the arena no longer appeals since I'm not indebted to anyone. I might go find some expat tavern and listen to rumours, see if I can hear about what's going on in other planes?
List:
1. Knight picks up Bel.
2. Knight goes cruising in a strange tavern for...ah...information. Yes. Planar information.
3. Kamvakua takes his 3 days of bed rest + Lesser Restoration x2 per day. 5 castings it seems to get back to full strength. Gains new respect for god damn poison.
<Kamvakua> roll 1d4
<Penuche> Kamvakua invokes Penuche's magic: < 1 > [d4=1]
<Kamvakua> roll 1d4
<Penuche> Kamvakua invokes Penuche's magic: < 4 > [d4=4]
<Kamvakua> roll 1d4
<Penuche> Kamvakua invokes Penuche's magic: < 3 > [d4=3]
<Kamvakua> roll 1d4
<Penuche> Kamvakua invokes Penuche's magic: < 3 > [d4=3]
<Kamvakua> roll 1d4
<Penuche> Kamvakua invokes Penuche's magic: < 3 > [d4=3]
List:
1. Knight picks up Bel.
2. Knight goes cruising in a strange tavern for...ah...information. Yes. Planar information.
3. Kamvakua whimpers and stabs poison in the face until it dies, while resting up in bed for a few days.
Depending on when you're playing it, I may try to have Adail tag along with Knight this time. He doesn't have anything else to do back in Air though.
Mari is obliged to accompany Knight to any place that sells alcoholic beverages. Asking around to see if anyone knows when that elemental showed up in town might not be a bad idea; I'd generally suggest we keep together as much as possible just in case he or someone else in the employ of the enemy is still around.
Nikko will probably spend a lot of his time cowering, angsting, and generally being a pain in the ass as he reverts back to the tendencies he first displayed when he met everyone. Hopefully, this gives everyone some general idea of just how 'OMGI'MSHITTINGMYPANTS' terrified he is. I mean, the Lich sent a tough Air Elemental and 5 stinkin' Wyverns just to bring me home. Who wouldn't be terrified?
I'll also be doing my best to ferret out any information about Her location. There's no way that someone didn't see where those things came from. Once I find out where she is, I'll do my ample best to go the OPPOSITE direction.
>_>; Kamvakua observes that fighting for your escape leads to you being uninterested in sticking around?
1. Knight picks up Bel.
2. Knight goes cruising in a strange tavern for...ah...information. Yes. Planar information. Mari tags along because drunken Knight is her target.
3. Kamvakua whimpers and stabs poison in the face until it dies, while resting up in bed for a few days.
4. Nikkolai digs up information then runs away from it like Kamvakua from a dicebot.
That all guys?
/me senses a hunt for more of a guiding presence from us? Is that the case?
I'm getting my shit together. Why yes, that does involve the PCs saying what they want to do! Isn't this awesome guys?!
If that's all, it's fine. Last call for things to-do.
Heh, the net is ever tone adjusting. Was seeing anyhow. :) Didn't really write much as I figure kamvakua is all five feet under and digging his way out anyway.
Go reply in the other topic then. <_<
Note: Your rate is 15 GP per person per day.
Session thoughts:
Decent session, covered a lot of ground and a bunch of light encounters. Michum is an asshole, will comment on him more later. The dragon was meant to be a diplo session, fighting him on Dimblock would have been grossly unwise. He wasn't impossible to beat(Though Kam's trip spam would've had a chance of making him rely on his breath only) but had serious breath based damage. The mercane were a simple encounter, though if you'd asked about buying you could've made a purchase for a minor magical item.
I pretty much saw that dragon battle as "If we start it, we lose because the merchants will get fried anyway we dance with it."
Also, hey neat, normal xorns. I could do trip denial defense without needing to stack rage on it. Yay. Dice were wacky as ever. Tons of ones, and then double twenties for a crit. I think this was the first session ever Kam did not take damage and damaging elements existed. Michum came across as a bit over the top on gruff asshole, which I think everyone commented on at some point, but it made for some interesting scenes, so why really complain?
Him challenging nikkolai to hit him though was surreal, and his response to being charmed also sorta surreal.
Appreciated the foreshadowing of the xorn encounter with the micsomethin merchants. Kind of odd that they went for us first and not our goods (which would've made for an interesting defensive challenge and probably something to take advantage during our guard duty rounds).
I got noticeably confused with the order around the caravan, thus me trying to talk to adail who was over in front (Since it seemed a weird picture shouting out chatter like that. May just be my internal picture of a caravan being some kind of traveling wagon, horses, 4ish people in said wagon, and us walking ahead and behind it (so roughly shouting distance from each other).
For a 'traveling for travels sake" session, it was pretty good I thought.
Let's catch for a chat t'night. Else its unlikely to catch me till next session.
Dunno about the dragon. It was just there, and it doesn't even take the same paths we use, so the odds of us encountering each other in the first place are pretty slim. The only thing we really wanted from each other was to go our separate ways, so what diplomacy was needed? If it was lying in wait for us or lived there or something...
QuoteHim challenging nikkolai to hit him though was surreal, and his response to being charmed also sorta surreal.
<-this. Getting mind-controlled in any way always struck me as enormously creepy, personally, but I guess he's used to it, being a merchant with valuable goods and all. <_<
I suppose the Xorns want to either kill us, personally, or kill everyone wandering around these tunnels to 'send a message' on behalf of their new ruler. Or maybe they really are just thieves, but are exceptionally greedy and want the lot.
Anyone want to try using detect evil on Michum? Just so we're sure who we're dealing with, I mean. That whole "think like a Baatorian bit" was uh.
At least if he's Baatorian he'll surely keep his word. >_>
Kam would probably have spotted it during detecting evil on the dragon from in back, but regardless, I'm not sure it matters.
Being an evil traveling merchant is hardly the most wicked of professions. If he starts hauling out soul bricks or something, we have a problem, if he's 'evil jerk that just wants to hawk his mineral wares and will rip you off in a bartering session' well? I ain't a paladin. Last I checked, neither is anyone else in the party.
I know. Just saying, it couldn't hurt to ascertain his alignment (or at least know what it isn't.)
I really intended him to kiss my boots or something. I probably would have paid for that later, but it would have been worth it.
That being said, his reaction during and after being charmed was kind of...."Uh...what?" I fully expected him to fire us. Or deck me. I dunno what the whole deal with him, but he grates on my nerves a great deal.
As for the dragon...where the HELL did it come from? I was all WTFing at it, even though I had a pretty decent amount of confidence in my CHA tanking skills.
To be honest, I'm also really surprised that there hasn't been any real effort on the elemental's part (and this half human aide of his) to pursue us onto Earth. Hope to find out more about that.
We killed like half his dudes, and he's an *air* elemental looking at chasing us into the *earth* plane. >_>
DO NOT REPLY WITH YOUR LOGIC, SIR. IT KILLS MANY CATGIRLS.
But logic is all I have... :(
Zeph:
Dune tends to play a little more on the wild side encounter wise. Think of it outside the box of gameable scenario. We're traveling the planes that do have all these kinds of epic stuff going on. Sometimes we're gonna cross stuff outside our area, and they aren't always going to care really because they might just be on their way to buy some milk and kick someone else's ass.
Truthfully, air elemental dude is probably doing way more damage giving rather decent descriptions of all of your troublesome companions to the lich who could then Scry and die any of us :P
It's actually kind of hard to scry/die from remote planes, isn't it? Travelling keeps us safe <_<
Quote from: Carthrat on January 19, 2010, 03:46:48 AM
It's actually kind of hard to scry/die from remote planes, isn't it? Travelling keeps us safe <_<
It's harder. A determined assassin can do it if they desire to.
And even if not, having a good idea of the forces he's traveling with is a vast improvement over 'he's a lone scared sorcerer. Take a half dozen guys and bring him back'. Costly information to get at the price he paid for it but not worthless.
As a note I'm not going to deeply comment on any of your speculations here. Obvious reasons apply.
Well, I actually think we can rule out scry-die just by circumstance. If she could pull that off, Nikki wouldn't have got ten feet in the first place.
Noted dune. Wasn't expecting ya to :) Gossipy yammering is part of the game.
Carth:
Or just that she didn't want to bother going personally. :3
anyhow, it's an antagonist. Just like your evil sister who wants to reunite the cards under her banner and not yours.
Okay, for info gathering? Declare what you're doing with it and make a GI check. If someone is with you they can assist, roll all of them at once and post the results.
@Drac: Disbelief checks, they will be rolled, I'll bet. >_
On GIing: Can competent people do all of it?
If someone could gather info on the whereabouts of the Gruesome Ruby for me, that'd be awesome, and good for one dead whatever-you-want-me-to-kill.
Mari doesn't exactly qualify as competent but she'll do it anyway (if we're hanging around town then loitering in bars and listening to gossip would likely be her default activity anyway). Besides, she already has to ask around town to see if "Mari" got up to any mischief while she was away (I doubt anything interesting will turn up, but I have to check). I'll try and grab Dune for rolling after work or tonight.
I could bug Nikki. And probably will, yes.
<Mari> roll 1d20+3 for GI, surely I will do better now that I am prettier. Mari is asking around for any specific information people might have on Gruesome Ruby. She is also curious to know whether that handsome wanderer "Mari" got up to any hijinks while the real one was away. I suspect the answer to this is no, but if it turns up news of someone looking for us it's all the better.
* Hatbot --> "Mari rolls 1d20+3 for GI, surely I will do better now that I am prettier. Mari is asking around for any specific information people might have on Gruesome Ruby. She is also curious to know whether that handsome wanderer "Mari" got up to any hijinks while the real one was away. I suspect the answer to this is no, but if it turns up news of someone looking for us it's all the better. and gets 13."12 [1d20=10]
Yeah, we're pretty much counting on Nik for anything useful here.
so sleepy...
Let's see, aside from digging, because I dig for LIFE....
I'd like to check around about any eladarin currently around or near the direction we're headed. Also any major mythy types/lesser divinities (sort of as Granny Tam was) in the direction we're heading. Granny Tam probably would be the easiest to ask there actually.
I'm not actually sure what we tend to call them. Technically, Kamvakua is hoping to meet and learn from Legendary types on his travels.
Quote[16:00] <Zephyrus> roll 1d20+17 Go, Go, Gadget Spy Network!
[16:00] * Hatbot --> "Zephyrus rolls 1d20+17 Go, Go, Gadget Spy Network! and gets 26."12 [1d20=9]
I'm doing a close search for any rumours, hints, or general info on the direction of the Gruesome Ruby or the Ruby itself. I'm also searching for any suspicious or odd arrivals in Hardsoil that might be connected to the attack outside of the portal on Air. Here's hoping that well turns up dry.
Quote from: El Cideon on January 22, 2010, 02:46:27 AM
<Mari> roll 1d20+3 for GI, surely I will do better now that I am prettier. Mari is asking around for any specific information people might have on Gruesome Ruby. She is also curious to know whether that handsome wanderer "Mari" got up to any hijinks while the real one was away. I suspect the answer to this is no, but if it turns up news of someone looking for us it's all the better.
* Hatbot --> "Mari rolls 1d20+3 for GI, surely I will do better now that I am prettier. Mari is asking around for any specific information people might have on Gruesome Ruby. She is also curious to know whether that handsome wanderer "Mari" got up to any hijinks while the real one was away. I suspect the answer to this is no, but if it turns up news of someone looking for us it's all the better. and gets 13."12 [1d20=10]
Yeah, we're pretty much counting on Nik for anything useful here.
You don't get any useful information - just the basic legend of the ruby that you know already. 'Mari' has been out drinking and having a good time the past few nights! She's the life of the party, sending one person off to Ooze in a hurry, then helping an aasimar find the way back to Bytopia.
Quote from: Dracos on January 22, 2010, 02:47:43 AM
so sleepy...
Let's see, aside from digging, because I dig for LIFE....
I'd like to check around about any eladarin currently around or near the direction we're headed. Also any major mythy types/lesser divinities (sort of as Granny Tam was) in the direction we're heading. Granny Tam probably would be the easiest to ask there actually.
I'm not actually sure what we tend to call them. Technically, Kamvakua is hoping to meet and learn from Legendary types on his travels.
What exactly do you mean here? Actual powers and Gods? Notable NPCs? Famous figures? Heroes? Could you elaborate this a bit more, Drac?
Quote from: Zephyrus on January 22, 2010, 05:04:10 PM
Quote[16:00] <Zephyrus> roll 1d20+17 Go, Go, Gadget Spy Network!
[16:00] * Hatbot --> "Zephyrus rolls 1d20+17 Go, Go, Gadget Spy Network! and gets 26."12 [1d20=9]
I'm doing a close search for any rumours, hints, or general info on the direction of the Gruesome Ruby or the Ruby itself. I'm also searching for any suspicious or odd arrivals in Hardsoil that might be connected to the attack outside of the portal on Air. Here's hoping that well turns up dry.
There's an Earth Elemental who sits in the taverns of Hardsoil. He says little, but Nikkolai earns his trust with flattering words! He says that the Gruesome Ruby is hidden near an zone of strong Earth power downwards a way, a place called Nixale. When pressed, he says, 'Be wary of the Prince of Elemental Evil,' and says no more.
No one unusual has been seen in Hardsoil the last week or so. Just travelers but none that set off any warning bells. The Dao are being quite lately too.
Quote[17:17] * Hatbot --> "Zephyrus rolls 1d20+8 k:p directions! and gets 14."12 [1d20=6]
[17:17] <Haruka> Hatbot wants us lost in the dark until we meet grue.
[17:17] <Zephyrus> roll 1d20+8 K:P Prince of Elemental Evil!
[17:17] * Hatbot --> "Zephyrus rolls 1d20+8 K:P Prince of Elemental Evil! and gets 9."12 [1d20=1]]
Hatbot, you bastard.
Quote from: Zephyrus on January 22, 2010, 06:23:27 PM
Quote[17:17] * Hatbot --> "Zephyrus rolls 1d20+8 k:p directions! and gets 14."12 [1d20=6]
[17:17] <Haruka> Hatbot wants us lost in the dark until we meet grue.
[17:17] <Zephyrus> roll 1d20+8 K:P Prince of Elemental Evil!
[17:17] * Hatbot --> "Zephyrus rolls 1d20+8 K:P Prince of Elemental Evil! and gets 9."12 [1d20=1]]
Hatbot, you bastard.
You know of Nixale - a dark place of elemental power - but not directions to it. You know nothing of the Prince of Elemental Evil besides his common name: Ogremoch.
<Dracos> roll 1d20+6 knowledge hard to come by
<Hatbot> ACTION --> "Dracos rolls 1d20+6 knowledge hard to come by and gets 14." [1d20=8]
Target: Knowing about any guardians like Granny Tam in the direction we're headed or any eladarin in the area.
Random observation: We continue to really suck at planar math. We drop the penalty mod randomly all over.
Should we maybe just drop passive bonus/penalities from planar bits? It is part of it, but how we're doing it right now isn't really working as far as us reliably applying the mechanic.
something that 'may' help (or at least I've found it so when there's 2-5 mods going on with each attack) is not pre-emptively adding-subtracting it. Put it in the roll so its obvious.
So instead of 1d20+16 -3 power attack
Its
1d20+18+1-3-2+1-1 (haste, power attack, planar, high ground, dazzle)
anyhow, not really caring strongly any way about it, just saw it though while doing the logs and figured it was worth commenting on.
I honestly hadn't even thought about it. It seems kind of obvious, I suppose, but it just never really occurred to me that whatever characteristics of the plane we're on also affect our combat skills. >_>
As a spellcaster, I don't think it affects you. You think it'd actually affect more (improving or diminishing elemental spells), but I don't remember it doing so.
Another observation:
With a horde of identical enemy types and an unclear layout, the numberings that dune gave them really helped out. It'd probably still be quite helpful even with a clear layout, at least provided we were also using them in describing our attacks.
Stats updated.
It totally does, if you're on the fire plane I know all your fire spells are maximized or empowered or something, for all the good that does.
Planar mods should go in the HP or init topic, because then everyone will remember them as those topics are changed all the time. Unfortunately they tend to get a bit cramped.
Apologies for the delay.
Quote from: Dracos on January 23, 2010, 03:15:41 AM
<Dracos> roll 1d20+6 knowledge hard to come by
<Hatbot> ACTION --> "Dracos rolls 1d20+6 knowledge hard to come by and gets 14." [1d20=8]
Target: Knowing about any guardians like Granny Tam in the direction we're headed or any eladarin in the area.
You only know a few big names - Princes of Elemental Good and Evil, that sorta thing. You missed the basic DC by 1.
---
Agreed with the planar traits. I need to add them into the #dunes topic I think, which I will.
Oh well. I'll try and up knowledge, or someone with score High could help me out :).
Or alternately, a gather info roll, on asking Granny tam :3
Session feedback: Another week, another traveling session. Ah well, it can't be helped. The dig down was relatively uneventful; the random encounter dice were quiet and the odds of running into something are low anyway. The Saint-Paladin I'll refrain from commenting on too much, though two things are obvious: Adventurers fuck up everything and sometimes you hit hooks and they don't catch. On the flip side, Mari and Zeph got MWF: Greataxe so at least there's a memento of the affair. It's not useful for either of them unless Zeph feels the need to get in touch with Nikkolai's axe crazy side.
No comment on the Rise of Stone yet since you're still in there.
---
I thought everyone did good at trying to keep what was a mundane but unhandwave-able affair into something interesting. Being inside a giant tunnel you're digging has to be miserable and smelly, which I felt was reflected well.
It was pretty obvious sidequest bait there with the saint, yeah. I guess we just screwed it up. >.> Surely there was quality loot involved that we've now missed out on. Maybe we can hit it again on the way back up and do things right, who knows. At least the scene was funny.
Platform area was nice. Mysterious ancient structures are always fun to explore. No idea what to say about kappastone except that Nik should've tried riding it.
Yeah, same on the sidequest bait. I leaped right apparently to what was needed to pull out the saint I guess, but I simply did not catch what we could do there. Nothing was hooking. Kind of disappointed on that as I really did want to bite on that, but I wasn't seeing it and the npc pretty much seemed to shut us down on the dialogue option.
"Hello!"
"We're doing...wait, who are you people!"
"We want to talk to..."
"Damn adventurers! Go away! SOmeone, cut some blood on it!"
Logs/stats updated.
Seconded on the sidequest thing.
If we have to spend ages poking at something before something interesting comes out, well, it's going to be hard to maintain that interest.
I really don't think it's a problem to handwave travelling if nothing much is happening...
The situation: Zeph has to drop from Planar due to real life complications. Bummer.
The problem: What do we do now?
The options:
1. A black hole opens up and Nikkolai vanishes through it. Life goes on.
2. Nikkolai gets killed in battle soon under DM control. Not really big on this.
3. We pack it in and start a new game or something. Depends on how much losing Nikkolai hurts you guys and how into your characters you are.
What do you guys think? (I'll withhold my opinion until after feedback.)
Option 1 or some variation thereof. Writing characters out, if possible, is always the best choice to me. Would rather not restart as I'm enjoying the game.
This is indeed a bummer. Who will Mari make fun of all the time now?
I would like to sincerely offer my apologies to you guys.
There's some friction with the parents concerning my late night sessions on school nights. Apparently, they were unaware of them until recently and they feel it's not something a "responsible" student should do. I'm trying to negotiate with them, but it's really not looking good at the moment.
I loved playing with you guys. The last two sessions were just bad luck, due to real life and homework issues. I appreciate that you vets allowed a newbie to come in and play with you, as well as teach me the ropes. I think I'm going to be playing casters for quite some time, whenever I'm allowed to. Nikkolai was the first character that I put a lot of work and love into. I know I made some mistakes tactically, but I hope that you all know what sheer fun I had evolving him and having him interact with Kam, Knight, Mari, and Adail.
I hope that come this summer, there'll be a place for me in a game. It's been fun.
what we're out a mage how will I get hasted why are all the neutral people vanishing :(
Man Zeph you were kinda cool, you should play more stuff if you have free slots later. It is a shame and the game will be lesser for your absence.
There is an obnoxiously easy method of writing Nikki out which basically involves his quest, if some overpowering villain shows up and just yoinks him away without killing the rest of us then there's a way to maybe write Zeph back in later. I dunno. Just killing people is kinda bitter.
It's odd that you suggest option 3, since it implies to me you've been thinking about it yourself?
Just seconding Carthrat on everything and noting that the existence of option 3 had also made me wonder the same thing.
Quote from: El Cideon on February 09, 2010, 07:25:31 AM
Just seconding Carthrat on everything and noting that the existence of option 3 had also made me wonder the same thing.
This, yeah. Option 1 is honestly the best one for me as well, yes. Since, as Rat said, Nik can be written back in if Zeph has the time later. My only concern about that is that it needs to be done in such a way that Kam and Adail don't immediately go "change of plans, we must go save Nikkolai!" Maybe he takes his leave of us for awhile to apprentice under Granny Tam or something like that?
I am wholly in favor of this option. ^_^
Works for me then.
As for 3? A little bit, but mostly mindful of the fact that losing a player can really ruin some people's grooves.
Hopefully it won't. We do, thankfully, still have a sizable team. We're a fair bit utility low now, and it'll be a bit adapting, but I would bet on it working out. 1 for the official post.
You'll be missed Zeph.
Quote from: Gatewalker on February 09, 2010, 11:55:00 AMMy only concern about that is that it needs to be done in such a way that Kam and Adail don't immediately go "change of plans, we must go save Nikkolai!" Maybe he takes his leave of us for awhile to apprentice under Granny Tam or something like that?
This. Whatever brings him away should probably either be voluntary or something that's obviously a long-term project to extricate him from, or we very likely will get derailed by "must save Nikkolai immediately."
If whatever steals him is fucking terrifying you can count on Knight to go 'We cannot do this guys'
So when KNight is kidnapped by an awakened wizard tarrasque, you're fucked?
Yes, probably
"Alright, here's the plan on how we're going to rescue knight from the wizard tarrasque. We have to face the facts that at this point in time, we simply are not even remotely a match for this force. Even training and preparing, we are unlikely to be able to face this force, a legend in its own time. We will need to leverage every ally we can, for a non-good wizard tarrasque with a controllable deck of many things is danger to all of the planes. Let's begin with heading to valhalla and talking with those giants again. It'll surely be a fight for the ages and they might join in. Adail, go head home and see if you can get the attention of the five champions of tasiel. I will raise the issue with Gwynerth and see if they would be willing to aid us in this. Mari, can you run back and talk with Granny tam about the possibility of an alliance to face off this terrible threat? This is just a start people. We're going to have to reach into every back pocket if we're going to hope to end this threat, and quickly if we expect any chance of getting Knight back alive."
Nikkolai should leave on his own. Wizard Tarrasque will end Awesomely.
I would imagine an important question would be: If Zeph plans to return to game come summer, does he want to reuse Nikkolai, and level him accordingly, or would he rather just start fresh, and make a new character.
If he wants to have Nikki, as I said in IRC, just have Nikki parting with leaving a letter saying he's going to try and keep a low key and to avoid getting you guys involved in his mess. When he returns, you can either have him rejoin you, figuring he's leveled up enough, or you can rescue him.
If he's just making a new character, well, you can still have him part with the letter, you just never meet him again.
may be a few mins late. Trying to get out of office.
<Kamvakua> Anyhow, raising an issue near and dear to my whims: Sense Motive - Combat Sensing - Can we formally state this as a use case for a house rule? In actual rules, it's only available as a feat in a splat book, but I think it's actually a really nice add in to D&D mechanics as it fills a good spot of finding a way to be able to get a flag on how strong the enemy might actually be in a worldset where Looks are hardly indicative.
<Kotono> I'll throw something together.
<Kotono> Post that in the gossip board so I don't forget.
<Kamvakua> This session I rather appreciated it as even though I took no action on it, it defined what my actions might be if it came to combat, whether it'd be trying to form the best escape route in the face of overwhelming power or trying to bring the creature down. :)
<Kamvakua> sure
Early suggestions:
Base check of CR or opposed bluff.
+2 for unknown creature type.
+4 for extremely exotic/noncorporeal type
I neither think we need this, nor do I want it. If looks are surprising, so be it. Not everything is at it seems and there is no logical way of knowing that pile of rocks X is tougher than pile of rocks Y (or whatever.) We should just assume shit is dangerous if it looks dangerous until events and facts prove otherwise. Besides, we get a pretty fast idea of how harsh anything we fight is by looking at it's attack rolls, which are publically visible and it makes a lot more sense to work it out this way, during a fight, than just looking at a guy and knowing he's tough/weak/whatever.
Besides, isn't this what knowledge checks are for?
Sharp opposition!
No. It explicitly isn't what knowledge checks are for. Besides, fighting classes pay double for knowledge, so saying that's 'what knowledge checks are for' is stupid because that's saying that the classes that should have the most opportunity to get a sense for it have the least. Few classes have sense motive, but there's already splat books (CA I believe) which toss this into sense motive's bulwark, only behind feats. The fact that we use knowledge:planes for practically any kind of 'tell us what we want to know dune' doesn't imply that we should add even more in there. If anything knowledge skills are already over rewarded in this world set and don't need more benefits for taking them.
Our average combat length is pretty short, probably about 3 rounds. If something is OMGWTFDEADLY by the time we're first seeing those hit rolls, combat is mostly over and someone has gotten nearly killed. This has happened already a few times in the game.
I think the statement that things are assumed to be dangerous is at least half lie. If it was truth, then a fighting retreat would be our standard battle plan. The assumption in standard D&D is that things are able to be dangerous...but are Beatable. But dune doesn't always play that way. He does toss in things we can encounter that aren't dangerous. He does toss in things that we encounter that totally could crush us. This leads to a much more lively ecosystem to play in that is better for it. But what happens when we find that we can't talk our way out of a fight that at a glance is very dangerous?
Flipping around a bit?
It allows for interesting considerations. Misreads, based on skills and not just descriptions allowing Dune to have enemies that bluff about their strong or weak points to deceive us. Accurate reads, when the danger level of someone talking to us isn't obvious by looks, as it is almost all the time in D&D. The potential to decide before entering combat how I would approach combat with someone I am sitting there talking with is interesting. It's really hard to tell from looks whether or not we can kill something or whether if we blunder into combat we should be trying to escape rather than fight.
It also slightly strengthens two skills that otherwise exist for no other reason than to oppose each other and are rarely used. Why bluff when you can charm or diplomacize? It provides it a way to confuse opponents beforehand or be confused by opponents beforehand. It's a pretty natural outcropping of an existing dynamic, moved from just being social to involving combat posturing.
It's been used twice so far in the game. Both with interesting effects. Instead of concluding with the salamander warriors "You know, these guys really don't sound that tough. I suspect we can just tell them who we are and slaughter them if they disagree", my conclusion became "Mmm, I'm endangering my comrades there, and even if it'd be fun to be snarky here, let's arrange for them to go by first, then take an ambush route". The other, we didn't even fight, but if we did, it wasn't a preliminary question what goal we would've had. There wasn't 'let's sit here and trade blows to figure out Oh God, he has like a +30 to hit and mari just got killed because we didn't know that before he punched her', when instead we might've been dashing for retreat from the very first action.
Taking humans alone, there's a tremendous number of ways to know Person X is more dangerous than Person Y, and it gets many times improved by folks who practice watching for such and also practice combat. How they walk, how they are muscled, their confident or lackthereof, etc. These are all things that could be represented by keeping a close eye on someone currently distracting us with clever talk.
Quote from: DracBesides, fighting classes pay double for knowledge, so saying that's 'what knowledge checks are for' is stupid because that's saying that the classes that should have the most opportunity to get a sense for it have the least.
yeah they pay double for sense motive/bluff too, except for certain hax classes.
Quote from: DracOur average combat length is pretty short, probably about 3 rounds. If something is OMGWTFDEADLY by the time we're first seeing those hit rolls, combat is mostly over and someone has gotten nearly killed. This has happened already a few times in the game.
Then we should learn not to rush into fights, not try and develop mysterious powers of foreknowledge.
Quote from: DracBut what happens when we find that we can't talk our way out of a fight that at a glance is very dangerous?
Then knowing how tough our opponent is is kinda meaningless, isn't it?
Quote from: DracIt's really hard to tell from looks whether or not we can kill something or whether if we blunder into combat we should be trying to escape rather than fight.
I generally consider this a pro.
I like not automatically knowing this shit. It would force us to research, plan, or otherwise be paranoid and I am fine with that and would prefer it. You're saying that this opens up new vistas of gameplay, but I actually think it's closing them off by handing us yet more advantages and information. A bit of uncertainty is good and makes stress situations more tense. In fact it's more tense than just knowing if something is way more dangerous than you or not. I like to get a bit of a thrill here.
The decision to attack or retreat should, I feel, be based on description and what we've learned in a justified way, not what amount to basically psychic powers. Our intuition as players should serve as well enough.
If this means we should play a more cagey game then so be it, I'm fine with that. We can always try surrendering or running away, and let's face it, if Mari is getting the crap kicked out of her from the get-go, it's obviously not a fight we 'chose' since she should be hiding or in the back rank or something whilst we bruisers absorb all the horrible shit. Yeah nothing ever goes to plan like this but I can dream <_<
Additionally, you are broadening two predominantly social skills into the combat arena. First, this is just another set of rolls that demands GM attention before a fight when all the information we should have should already be on the table.
Second, can I have those skills? I'm a fighter, too, and one who tries to sell herself as being good at tactical assessments to boot! If it can be done then I should be able to do this shit. I *would* be able to do this shit if a house rule like this was stated in the first place. If it incidentally makes me really tricksy and good at telling when people lie well who cares, even though that is stuff I would normally be horribly bad at (and would prefer to be bad at IC, yes.) Yeah there is an element of personal frustration here, I cannot deny. I dislike the equation here.
Quote from: DracTaking humans alone, there's a tremendous number of ways to know Person X is more dangerous than Person Y, and it gets many times improved by folks who practice watching for such and also practice combat. How they walk, how they are muscled, their confident or lackthereof, etc. These are all things that could be represented by keeping a close eye on someone currently distracting us with clever talk.
I could pay this for the very specific case of humanoid warriors. But in the case of more esoteric dudes like clerics or mages or bizzare alien monstrosities you just cannot tell how potent they are at a glance unless they are obviously bearing awesome magical gear (and even then only someone in their profession would really be able to ID it and know just how harsh they are.) A penalty of '2-4' like you suggested is kind of a joke given that skills are so easy to ramp up (and in the case of exotica, knowledge checks really are what should be helping us figure stuff out there.)
I've waited a day or two in replying here. I figured I'd let you two have a tilt at it and get your opinions out. Since you two have made your opinions quite clear, do Gate/Cid have opinions on this?
I've used rules like this before, but never anything really overly useful or formalized. I'll break down how I've done it here, I suppose.
First, only ever useful against humanoid fighter types. It's basically just figuring out what ballpark someone is in with regards to weapon skill. For monsters, use the appropriate Knowledge(so how baddass should we expect an elemental of yay large to be again? etc) and for mages, well, you're kinda SOL until they cast a spell.
Secondly, I've had the check just be "roll your BAB like it's a skill". Standard DC of 15 for someone who's not trying to disguise thier skill at all. This makes it so fighter types are the best at it, as they should be, without any complications. No needing to give fighters new skills, or as Rat pointed out, making them good at other uses of SM for this.
Lastly, what the check gives? Just a basic "you think you're better then they are", "somewhere around your level" or "you're pretty sure they've seen alot more combat then you have". The rough estimate I use is if the target's BAB is more then 3 under the PC's then it's the first, within 3 either way is the middle, more then 3 above is the third. So yeah, a rogue trying this on a fighter of equal level could quite possibly get the "he is more badass then you" result. All I've ever let it measure is BAB.
As for my general opinions on it, no, I don't think a rule like this is nessesary at all. If it is implimented, I would prefer it to be more like what I've got here then what Drac proposes(I'm with Rat on the idea that Fighters shoudl be best at this, so no to Bluff/SM being the skills in question). And yeah, something like this is only really useful for Humanoids, since the Knowledge skills do already cover everything else. We could have rolled K:P(the default skill for elementals, iirc) at that biggun and gotten a ballpark of how awesome it was supposed to be if we'd wanted. That's part of what the skill is for, it's right there in the PHB.
So yeah, there's my $.02, hope it made sense.
Sorry for the delay on replying to this, but between wanting the argument to run it's course first plus being sick over the weekend? Ew.
On listening to the arguments I think there are some valid points being made here. In particular, one pinged me. I don't want combat to be easy, safe or predictable. Many times, I'd rather you guys avoid combat. Planar combat is meant to be dangerous and deadly. There's no guarantee that any given fight will be fair or winnable if you charge in blindly.
Should there be an easy way to tell this? I'm leaning towards no on reflection. Knowledge skills can help here, but I don't think an easy way to determine difficulties serves the general interests of the game I'm trying to run. I'd rather this game keeps mystery and uncertainty, you know? I want PCs who have to role play out and deal with uncertainty, not ones that can throw some dice and know if they should fight or run. An easy answer is tempting, but I feel it will do more harm than good.
In particular, Drac rolled for some info on the giant elemental last session. This helped him determine how deadly it was...but...that worked against what I was trying to do there. I wanted you guys to be intimidated and trying to think on your feet. There was a gigantic earth elemental in front of you. I wanted you to see that, not roll and see it as a CR 11 encounter you guys could power past.
I should've left already, but I haven't. I may be late.
Hell of a session. I didn't expect the harpy bitch to be that hard a fight, but Hatbot had a flair for the dramatic. Did you guys enjoy the session?
Got to bring out a unexplored part of Adail's personality a bit here, so that was fun. He kinda goes into "hehehe fighting is fun~" mode when someone actually manages to hit him but isn't approaching OHKO levels like the XORN did. Of course when his friends start taking massive damage, that goes away. He's not totally nuts, just a somewhat violent adreneline junky(especially for a celestial).
Quote from: Gatewalker on February 17, 2010, 03:44:51 AM
Got to bring out a unexplored part of Adail's personality a bit here, so that was fun. He kinda goes into "hehehe fighting is fun~" mode when someone actually manages to hit him but isn't approaching OHKO levels like the XORN did. Of course when his friends start taking massive damage, that goes away. He's not totally nuts, just a somewhat violent adreneline junky(especially for a celestial).
Celestials are often white-washed. They're perfect good, they're boring, blah blah blah blah blah. I welcome this in giving Adail more personality and more depth. An adrenaline freak celestial? Now that's more interesting than the stereotype. It's a nice take on the righteous wrath angle.
It was a decent set piece for a fight, the kinda tactical stuff I like, and Kam's stunt was pretty cool. The villain today was kinda nonsensical though. So it was a good fight in weird context.
I have to admit that I'm somewhat nonplussed by having someone DIE and then come back to life in the same session for a trinket, with no real repercussions. Yeah, D&D, but... well. <_<
Quote from: Carthrat on February 17, 2010, 03:49:50 AM
It was a decent set piece for a fight, the kinda tactical stuff I like, and Kam's stunt was pretty cool. The villain today was kinda nonsensical though. So it was a good fight in weird context.
She was basically the flock leader of the harpies and kept the best raiding spot to herself. She was basically an egomaniac and used to being the top dog of her little world. This is all about raiding and following her little black heart's desires. To her, you were just some prey and an easy mark to hit on. The way the fight went, she never got a chance go into this. If you'd surrendered to her or things went differently somehow, this would've been gone into in more depth.
QuoteI have to admit that I'm somewhat nonplussed by having someone DIE and then come back to life in the same session for a trinket, with no real repercussions. Yeah, D&D, but... well. <_<
Agreed 100000%.
For the sake of not having Drac sit out several sessions I fast-forwarded the resurrection. I'm not a fan of this, but if I can't get the needed effects before he comes back, by Ogremoch, I'll get them in after. Practical DMing had to trump world flavor here. Letting Drac stew in dying for a week or two just wasn't a good idea.
I had fun last session, even though hatebot hated greatly and the initial setup (With a great deal of prodding from others) convinced that I couldn't just jump down there. Though I suppose Mari paid for convincing me that I couldn't for a while.
There were a lot of fun lines and a lot of little scenes. I definitely understand the conflict on numerous fronts. On my side, that was one of the more OOC action choices I've had Kamvakua take. Exterior to it, it was awesome, but not only did I take an OOC action, I suicided on it. And it was really only a small chance of that happening too. Less than ten percent I'm pretty sure. But that's how the dice were going with me that night anyhow. It might've been a very different story had I simply gotten back up, but the dice were against me as they tend to be.
As I did die there, I understand it promptly tosses dune in a bad situation between putting in punishment to make death painful and generally epic, but really, I'm glad the choice was made as such. Sitting out a couple weeks would've been really lame.
eh, I am failing to put concept into words. oh well.
<dracos> mmm, aww, that's not so interesting.
<dracos> I did the math on the odds of kamvakua's death on that action.
<Taishyr> 129%?
<Kotono> Oh?
<Kotono> 34%
<Kotono> ?
<dracos> It ranged from a low of 1.15 percent to a high of 2.73 percent. Mmm, though I suppose that's not entirely true. It's probably that 1.15 added to a small amount, so closer to 4 percent. But that's still not 5 percent, which is what my whimsy said would be hillarious.
<dracos> (1.15 percent was the odds of it doing instant death. 2.73 percent were the odds of it doing just enough, and failing on the recovery rolls).
Did you factor in the odds of the AoO missing or landing a crit? An miss I think almost ensures your survival, while a crit is almost certain death.
I did not factor in the odds of a crit. I did factor in the odds of missing. So it may be a bit higher. Adding in the crit vastly complicates the math here (much as properly summing the percentile chance between recovery and instant death would).
I'm using a program called SmallRoller to do most of the math and then taking the rest with a calculator. My hand work with probabilities on high varieties of dice is quite slow these days anyway.
The odds of a crit nudges it a hair closer to 5%, I guess? It's not a huge change I imagine, since it was 50/50 she'd hit and the same odds on a crit confirmation.
a 1/40 odds multiplier really. If it was considered a sure thing that that killed, it would add 2.5 percent and subtract about .3-.4 percent from the previous numbers. It'd probably push it around the 5 and a half percent range.
About 5%? So...about the same odds as rolling a 1 on a critical save when that's the only way you can fail, then? <_<;
Surely it was higher than that.
12d10 is an average damage of 66, and the harpy had a 50% chance of dealing at least 1d8+1d6+30 or so due to power attack I think, which itself at a 50% chance of hitting... hmm okay maybe not with 100+ HP.
Quote from: Anastasia on February 17, 2010, 03:54:28 AMTo her, you were just some prey and an easy mark to hit on. The way the fight went, she never got a chance go into this. If you'd surrendered to her or things went differently somehow, this would've been gone into in more depth.
It's probably a good thing for Mari that we didn't surrender.
As for Kam coming back posthaste, yeah, understand fully why you did that, Dune. Missing sessions would suck. I'm not convinced that's free of repercussions, anyway. Guessing Kam respawned with some inhibitions against crossing Ogremoch.
Well then. I have some questions!
1) Where are we, exactly?
2) Is my Cardsense still pointing straight down? If not, where is it?
3) Let us investigate the Gruesome Ruby whilst we're here. I think we're supposed to be pretty close. We no longer have Nikkolai to work some GI magic so I guess we'll do it the hard way- I'll look for reputable jewelers or any other likely places where people who know about such things may gather. Local geologists, guides or explorers could be a decent shot, as would old mystics wise in the way of the earth (like earth elementals!!1)
I am not precisely sure where we are going next but this time I'm going to make wide enquiries about known denizens of wherever it is we travel to, so we can better prepare ourselves to deal with specific foes. If possible I'd like to chart routes around them if they're dangerous or find out if there's any way to scare them off if they're small fry (but irritating small fry.)
4) This city looks like a real harsh place, lots of drab greys and zealous earth elementals. Are there any enlivening social problems? Additionaly, iirc Kam wants some kind of magic shield. Honestly I wouldn't mind looking into that too. If there are reputable forges and smithies around here (making weapons from the VERY BONES of the cosmos) then let's check them out.
Can we get a list of interesting hotspots in town, similar to what we did for Stratusberg? Things relating to what I've just discussed would be neat, anything else of note is a welcome bonus.
Remind me of this over the weekend if I don't post, Rat. I'm busy today and I have a nagging feeling I'll forget.
Quote from: Carthrat on February 18, 2010, 04:32:44 PM
Surely it was higher than that.
12d10 is an average damage of 66, and the harpy had a 50% chance of dealing at least 1d8+1d6+30 or so due to power attack I think, which itself at a 50% chance of hitting... hmm okay maybe not with 100+ HP.
Yeah, you forgot that in order to kill me, they had to do at least 116 points of damage (to take me to -1). And then I had to fail stabilization rolls repeatedly. Or they had to do 125 damage (to instantly bring me to -10).
and that 50 percent is a pretty strong lowering aspect. It means 50 percent of the time there was effectively zero chance of death (or the odds of rolling 115 or more on 12d10, which I misrounded to zero, but is pretty close to zero as it stands).
Part of why I took it was that it really was immensely likely I would survive it. But never really underestimate my likelihood to pull out obscenely unlikely occurances on dice rolls.
But yeah, it was effectively 3 1s in the session :P
And yeah, I indeed have some penalty there.
Yeah at first I was thinking "but he only had like 88 HP! surely he would die!" but then I remembered that you actually had 100+ and had to get stabbed first. The falling damage roll was spectacularly above average too by like 20, that's rough.
Chatted with ko a bit, but I'm going to go offer Ogremoch a favor within reason. What with the whole bringing me back from the dead. Regardless of the fact he was paid for it.
I'm also going to pick up a potion of fly.
as discussed with ko a bit, I totally want to pick up a magic shield, though it really doesn't mean much till I level. Guess no problem picking it up here and even tossing some RP in on training for it.
Quote from: Carthrat on February 19, 2010, 10:48:47 AM
Well then. I have some questions!
1) Where are we, exactly?
Nixale.
Quote2) Is my Cardsense still pointing straight down? If not, where is it?
A little bit down and a lot bit to the east, it's stronger now too.
Quote3) Let us investigate the Gruesome Ruby whilst we're here. I think we're supposed to be pretty close. We no longer have Nikkolai to work some GI magic so I guess we'll do it the hard way- I'll look for reputable jewelers or any other likely places where people who know about such things may gather. Local geologists, guides or explorers could be a decent shot, as would old mystics wise in the way of the earth (like earth elementals!!1)
(Snipping a bunch of stuff after that's more info stuff.
You can roll GI if you like straight off(Have me in the room for it and post the result if so), but odds are you guys will have to spend some sweat and time GIing since you lack Nikkolai's super charisma and grace. As for more info, let me know how you guys want to approach this first real quick before I list it up.
Kallen says:
*Wellllll
*I appreciate asking us how we want to handle things. But it's hard to answer.
*To put one thing simply, I'm not interested in RPing shopping unless there are complications of some nature
Dune says:
*Well, a lot of what I'm looking here is a bit more structure to how you're approaching things.
Kallen says:
*Well we presumably spend a few days in town hanging out at some inn and get our basic info from there
*Then we explore it a bit, probe for information, and find out things, both relevant to our goals and irrelvant (but interesting for some reason nonetheless.)
*As for finding/buying gear, it really does all start with asking questions, following up on them, and then likely asking some more
*We have no need as far as I can see to be particularly circumspect, and it's a bit late to enter the city wearing cloaks and hoods anyhow, so we won't sneak around or anything
As for finding out where we want to go/how to get there/what's there, surely there are local guides or something that can help us figure it out? We'll find expertise, pay it, and have it help us.
Okay, this pends Mari, who said she wanted to roll a GI check today.
I'll take 10 on a GI roll for 13.
<Mari> roll 1d20+3 what are the notable sights and hangouts in Nixale/any news here about Gruesome Ruby/it'd also be nice to know if any devils are hanging because, well, they want us dead
* Hatbot --> "Mari rolls 1d20+3 what are the notable sights and hangouts in Nixale/any news here about Gruesome Ruby/it'd also be nice to know if any devils are hanging because, well, they want us dead and gets 6."12 [1d20=3]
<Penuche> Mari invokes Penuche's magic: < 19 >12 [d20=16]
I chose in advance to go with Hatbot's roll. Fuck bots.
> roll 1d20+1 may as well Aid Another Knight's info search
* Hatbot --> "Adail rolls 1d20+1 may as well Aid Another Knight's info search and gets 17." [1d20=16]
> roll 1d20+3 Drac can't get online but he wants a roll by proxy aid another to Mari.
* Hatbot --> "Kotono rolls 1d20+3 Drac can't get online but he wants a roll by proxy aid another to Mari. and gets 13." [1d20=10]
I am aidful. To whoever needs it.
You know, rat makes a good point, at least it sounds it to me.
We no longer have a charisma tank. Our GI high in the party is 3. Mari can diplomacize, but generally, using social tricks to casually act like we have a citywide spy around.
So what do folks do when they're too busy saving knight to deal with finding things around town? Or too self important to spend all afternoon talking it up with random folks to know that the best restaurant in the area is old john's tavern and that the wizard Elnar likes going there on friday nights. They do the same thing they do in modern living. They go to the local relatively well advertised expert who sells 'knowing where the hell things are, and who you really want to talk to in order to arrange caravan stuff'. An information broker, of the more casual sort. GoogleEarth.com, 'Good Blacksmith, I'm feeling lucky' :P
This would probably be a good attribute to add into the general setting. It's a reasonable entrepreneur type to see at pretty much any town large enough to take more than 20 minutes to walk through. Not generally anyone who deals, or wants to deal, in illicit information in most cases, but in the same way most towns will have places to eat, places to sleep, places to buy things, places people live, etc; they'll probably also have one or more folks that deal with travelers, or sell town maps, or generally can point you where you need to go for a few coppers. They probably either are near town entrances, or inns. Mostly probably town entrances to point people to a specific inn paying them to do so. Yadda Yadda.
Why haven't we used this before? But we did. We went right to the innkeeper in hardsoil to point us around, and then relied on our GI expert rather than going back and asking. Now that we don't have someone who likes to go smooze around, we can sacrifice some coin to solve these kinds of local area knowledge bits. For traveling adventurers who aren't good at it, it's probably worth more than spending a day irritating the townsfolk sticking their noses around.
Drac: That assumes every town is okay with that and has such. That's a presumption that may or may not be true on the whole.
Edit: To clarify when I haven't just woken up from drowsing?
You don't need and I don't want the assumption you can walk up and get an easy infodump on the town. Mystery's a part of the game as is finding out what's going on.
---Nixale---
You get a lot of sour looks from the inhabitants as you look around. You don't see too many of your kind - lots of stony faces. Earth elementals are common, as are creatures that look like bat-man crossed with stone, great wings behind them. There's living piles of dirt and gemstone, often accompanied by Earth elementals. You see a few snake creatures with human heads, carried on divans by silent humanoid slaves. It takes you some time, it takes you some effort, you come on a little tucked away pile of stones you could call a building. You heard about it from one of the man-bat-stone things, supposed to be nice here. Friendly, he said.
Inside you see 'em all. Your type. Living, breathing, fleshy creatures. Most of them sit at tables surrounded by glowing crystals, keeping their gazes down and business private. Got a couple of humans in armor in one corner, then you got the man sized water elemental listening to a Githzerai go on and on, while a couple of tables away a gnome in singed mechanical armor tinkers with what looks to be a clockwork golem. Barkeep's always smiling,and humming. He's got it all going on. Not a hair out of place, not a stain on his blue tunic, not an unkind word. Human you think, with a faintly beige-brown tint to his skin.
Resting around her and asking around' s isn't so bad. Knight goes and starts asking her questions. She ends up shacked up at a table with the humans in armor, talking the trade. What works good on the bat-men(Gargoyles, apparently, anything smashing like a mace works), how to deal with the gravity(Lighter armor or high strength) and how not to look like a sweaty pig after butchering the locals. After all that's outta the way, she gets to brass tacks. Adail's with her, nodding in the right places and adding in a bit, as much as a celestial mouse from Elysium can. Anyway, first off you hear about the Rise of Stone. Harpies, they say. Fucking harpies. Right, been there, killed that. 'round these parts most of the problem is Ogremoch's piles of stony shit: His worshipers run this place tighter than an angel's snatch. You're in Ogremoch's territory and they damn well know it to tell you.
According to Chuckles and Giggles(Real names: Sir Anthony and Belblid the Bold from the realm of Telerath), they run patrols in the area, especially down and ahead. It ain't so hard to get around ahead if you're in good with them. If you wanna be in good with the folks that bend the knee to the Prince of Elemental Evil for Earth, that's the ticket. Now, knowing what's ahead is a hard thing. The Elementals ain't talking and going without Ogremoch's flock being okay with it's asking for find out if you can be fertilizer for Earth. You get one of those looks, the red eye special from someone who's had a few too many droughts of liquid comfort. Best not be asking about that unless you're in, then you can just start making the right inquiries with the right people and there you go.
Talking more, Knight changes the subject. Now, this place has a good rep for some things. Earth is known for having some fine works of metal and gemstone and Nixale is no exception. Gilgeam's Eye, Branatos, The Silver Psionic and Gold Watch, those sorta places. Shops? Now anything weapon-ish gets you looks. Only Elementals run it, the sort that probably spend a lot of free time praising Ogremoch and making sure his horde gets bigger. Oh sure, you can walk in and buy something, but you ain't fooling anyway or so it goes. Oh, and all of them are marked up about 25%. Fun times for everyone. At this point Sir Anthony mutters about the Quickblade, about how a greatsword he bought there cost over 600 GP for a nonmagical one. The moment he said his sword broke and he needed a new one, the prices went up up up. But hey, that's why Bacchus invented booze! A few quick shots of fire-brandy from Baator leaves him smiling and happy all over again.
Since they're both on the way to being hellacious drunk, Knight and Adail move on. Doing the table shuffle for a half hour leaves you at the barkeep. You get to talking, you know, about the little stuff. What it means to be an adventurer and a woman to boot. That sorta thing. After a bit he stops to polish a shot glass and listens to Adail mention the locals. As he polishes it right up, he says it's lucky here. If nothing else, Ogremoch keeps the city peaceful. He's the only game and town and if you don't play, you lose. Last time some high-minded paladin of Paladine came in...He doesn't even break his smile, as he describes what it's like to see crushed brain matter and skull fragments pried out of the street.
At that he slides Adail a free drink. Just good information to know, he says. Bad things happen in Nixale if you don't play the game. Bad for business and he likes having good business. Slides a free drink to Knight then, too, whiskey strong enough to stagger a vrock and sweet as apples. Then he's like if you play along, it works pretty good for you. Says he heard your friend over there already found that out with the Delve. Pay up and place nice and they'll sell you what you want there and you'll walk out just fine. After a beat, he says to try to Twisted Mithral smithery. Ask for Divaq. He says something else, but the whiskey's good. Easy to forget when you're drinking it, you know? Easier to end up sprawled out in bed, waking up the next morning with a hangover and a backache.
---
So Mari makes herself friendly with Kamvakua. 'course, everyone's friendly when you have 800 pounds of barbarian death on hand AND a pair of tits to admire. A lot of small talk, a lot of learning with a bored looking water elemental and a quick talking, excited githzerai. It's words word words from the latter of the two, talking in thicky accented Common. A chaos accent, says the elemental. A guttural word in something else is the retort, as the two roll eyes at each other. Anyway, after all the touchy-feely bullshit phases pass, Mari gets to things. Nixale's all about Ogremoch. The Delve's his Temple, the Hall of Lucre is his follower's favorite hideout. Great places to go if you want to feel poor while Ogremoch feels very rich, they say. Well no, the Delve's great for making Ogremoch richer by buying the magic of his priests. The Hall's not bad if you wanna play nice with 'em. Or something like that, the githzerai takes an extended digression about a gemstone he lost in Limbo and is sure Ogremoch should have. Or something, it sounds kinda disjointed.
Picking up with the water elemental, who has some name that sounds like gurgling stream water for three seconds(Bulg is fine, it says) the conversation meanders for a bit. Turns out Bulg is a woman, as far as those things reckon themselves. She gives Kamvakua a wink at that, giggling and buying him a drink. After a few awkward moments that everyone will drink about to forget, the conversation continues to meander. So the Gruesome Ruby, you get that look. There's a fella who's supposed to know about it, really on the down and low. Name's Cysalis, runs Gilgeam's Eye. Jewelry shop, apparently. The elemental clams up at that, another awkward pause. Seems like a good time to go test the waters otherwise and Mari needs a new drink anyway, so off she goes.
After a few shots and a few near misses, Mari and Kamvakua feel good. Warm inside. All smiles as they sit next to the barkeep. He watches and whistles, as a man with heavy body hair - close to black fur, gets into a conversation with you. So the D word comes up. The man gives Mari a sidelong glance and shrugs. After another drink Mari moves on...D word...nada. Devils, says the gnome as he works on his clockwork friend? This isn't Baator! Who cares? Then another..mmm...another drink or another...mmm....the night slips away from Mari...oh hey, how did that bed get under her. Wait, head throbbing? Check. Smell like booze and sweat? Check. Hangover? Check. Oh, that means it's morning!
---
As noted, there are shops available. The Delve temple can be used to purchase magical items of up to 1000 GP(Before 25% markup) without incident, anything more expensive will need to be asked about. Jewelry shops are available if you want to pursue any of those angles or buy some. You can also buy weapons and mundane goods as observed, though Ogremoch and his amazing elemental friends run the racket.
Very nice theme drop :)
mmm.
Given I was looking for something of the 9k+ range, the general info vibe says "no, you can't buy anything here without a huge markup' it seems shopping even for a potion is something I'm not gonna do. Eh, but we'll see how it goes after a couple of chatter. Maybe I'll trade a scroll for a potion or something. Overall though, our general money inflow makes for not wanting to spend much time at all in a city that likes to gouge. Similarly in one where brutal but effective peacekeepers are around, I'm not leaning much toward hanging out to adventure. It seems like asking for a clash staying around more than needed.
Anyhow, start of next session, what's happening still:
A)Kam is gonna drop by Ogremoch and offer a favor as thanks.
B)Afterwards kam might see if they have something interesting. a 2k+ markup is unlikely though to make that go far.
C)We check out Cysalis in the Gilgem eye about the Gruesome Ruby.
D)Anything else?
"Gemstone lost in Limbo," huh?" Interesting.
Seeing Cysalis sounds like a no-brainer. Maybe talk more with those two knight dudes and see what we can do about making the road ahead easier?
Also seconding that flavor post is very cool.
As soon as Knight wakes up from her hangover, she would likely make like a true lunatic and investigate this Githzerai chap.
Quote from: DuneAccording to Chuckles and Giggles(Real names: Sir Anthony and Belblid the Bold from the realm of Telerath), they run patrols in the area, especially down and ahea
Are the knightly dudes the ones who run patrols, or are the earth elementals? It might be wise to tap into these guys if we want to get in good with Ogremoch. Which would be nice. Because then devils may not fuck with us by proxy again.
From what your sore head can recall, they're not the ones who do it. The Elementals and servants of Ogremoch are.
Guys, you have a day until game time. Get your ducks in a row on what you want to do at the start of the session.
Oh and obviously if you guys want to go into four different solo sessions doing stuff that's one thing, but it'll slow things down. Some consolidation of goals is a good thing! Really!
Ok, there are two things I think we should do as a group.
1) Visit Cysalis and inquire about our dreadful red gem.
2) Conduct appeals into getting into Ogremoch's good graces, or rather, in the good graces of his standing army. I think we can do this through the knights, as I said; they seem to know their way around and look like they might have done some work about the place.
Privately I would like to chase up that Githyanki sometime. Also, the Twisted Metal smithery sounds like it could be interesting, so I'd check that out when I get a chance too.
Sounds reasonable to me. What do you guys think, send two PCs to inquire about each? If someone's going to try and impress Ogremoch's goons, probably at least one of the warrior types should go that route. Especially since Kam wants to meet Ogremoch anyway. Mari + someone else can go meet Cysalis?
Quote from: Carthrat on February 23, 2010, 03:42:30 AMAre the knightly dudes the ones who run patrols, or are the earth elementals? It might be wise to tap into these guys if we want to get in good with Ogremoch. Which would be nice. Because then devils may not fuck with us by proxy again.
Oh good, we can look forward to them fucking with us directly.
We've killed everyone who's tried to rape us so far. Let 'em come!
Somehow, I don't think Chuckles and Giggles will get us anywhere in good graces :)
Just possibly.
Anyhow, who wants to come and talk with evil earth god-prince? Somehow, I'm more than half expecting any favor worth doing there will probably take a fair bit of session time, so the more that come along probably the better.
Adail will be fairly against the whole idea of offering him a favor. Payment for services is one thing, but offering a favor on top of that to an evil elemental lord? Yeah, that doesn't sound like something he'd approve of, even being fairly relaxed by celestial standards.
Adail can just not go to that particular meeting if that makes it easier for him? See no evil hear no evil!
Hey for all we know he could be a really nice guy
(I don't wanna go see him unless I have to though. There's something about the name that just tips me off.)
Well, if Kam really needs to have someone with him, Mari could go? Drow and all, might be fitting. She's probably more suited to talking to shopkeepers than important people, but.
Oh :( That's a lot of 'don't even want to have it happen, don't want to be in blast radius'.
Anyhow, it's conflicting that it's an evil lord, but more Kamvakua values his life more than a pittance than anything that Ogremoch has done. Kam is someone who generally, strongly, leans good, but isn't part of the whole 'be a celestial, be a devil' race there. It's possible Ogremoch will simply ask something unreasonable, in which case Kamvakua would simply refuse. But he may just ask 'go fetch gemstone x that I want from lair of nasty wicked monsters' or 'do random chore or trial' in which case sure. Provided it's not something that involves attacking innocent folks or something blatantly evil, Kam will probably do it.
Most likely result really? Ogremoch laughs him off and wonders where his latest gemstone bribe is, Kamvakua sighs and simply rejoins the main quest.
Probably because he has 'EVIL' with a capital E in his title. Even jaded neutral cynics can't look at that and think 'oh well that's okay then', it's like screaming "I AM AN ASSHOLE" from the rooftops.
Now if he was 'Benevolent Dictator Ogremoch of the Socialist Earth Union' then there'd be room for doubt.
Anyway I don't actually mind doing some task for him or otherwise getting into the good graces of his clergy/goons. Better they like us than be willing to take bribes from devils to kill us. More likely to focus on the little people than the big cheese myself, but hey whatever works.
Dune's mood setter post actually kind of placed him as "Corrupt Monarch Ogremoch of Earth" in behavior than "Evil" with a capital Evil, with his primary evil trait being "Evil Indifferent unless you cause trouble in my town, in which case I squish you". On Kam's evil sense scale, that's remarkably low. Commericial Corruption is a bit over Kam's culture head. Sure, it'll totally detect as evil on Detect Evil, but I'm not sure he'd entirely get it.
Anyhow, even acknowledging he's totally Evil, I was wavering over it even in that case. If a devil saves your life, does that not matter if his alignment is Evil?
Depends on how and why.
Actually I guess it mostly depends on who I'm RPing at the time.
Good session yesterday. What else is on your agendas in Nixale? You guys have a path to the Gruesome Ruby lined up, are you going straight away? Any other purchases or investigations?
Are there any decently priced/cool magical shields for sale (Target range +3)? Assume Kamvakua takes a short tour of the stores.
If so, I'm totally fine with playing that out (or handwaving trade here). If it isn't likely, then won't waste time, let's go toward the Gruesome Ruby.
I think Rat mentioned earlier in the thread wanting to look into that random githzerai we heard about in the GI post. I guess there's that if he's still interested?
I really want to find a way to mess with racist elf girl's head before we leave town, but I'm not coming up with much. The most hilarious option, of course, is getting the drow amulet on her. I probably wouldn't be able to get it back, of course. Which is a bummer mechanically but a sacrifice Mari's willing to make for great schadenfreude. Also depends on me being able to get the thing off, which I haven't tried but I'm guessing is unlikely. Eh, I've got six days, I'm sure I can come up with something amusing.
Other than that, I got nothin'.
(Well, no. I'm already worrying that "Gruesome Ruby" will turn out to not actually be a rock but a person and that Kam's compulsion to hand it over to Ogremoch will present us with a dilemma. But that's purely speculation and one step at a time.)
The mistake of Gruesome ruby being a person I think is highly unlikely. The stories heard so far about it wouldn't match it.
My paranoia knows no bounds. (And has anyone actually seen the thing?)
Well, has anyone seen MARI, huh?
Wait.
Yeah I wanna go see him, he might know something interesting. But I can do that myself sometime privately and then we can head on our merry way. Nothing else is keeping me in Nixale.
What about the jewlery knight? Shiny pretties to decorate~ :P
Oh okay sure!
You're buying, right?
Nothng for me. I'll look the not!dwarf back up on the way back through.
btw, planning to ambush knight about discussing sword and shield, lance and shield type tactics as part of kamvakua's study.
Dunno if this would be better as a side session or in the main part. Rat?
Note to self for tomorrow: Mari's to hit and shit.
don't forget gem!
Quote from: Anastasia on March 03, 2010, 04:08:30 AM
Note to self for tomorrow: Mari's to hit and shit.
Eh. You don't really need to modify anything, really. Last night's failure was mostly just bot hate (3/2/2 on a full attack? Really?) Heavy gravity penalty has been messing with my accuracy for a while too, so that may be skewing the numbers.
More to the point, though, I just don't think you should feel like you need to change something just because I didn't go out of my way to design as efficient a killer as the others. Mari's kind of the normal person here anyway (well, from my perspective.
QuoteMore to the point, though, I just don't think you should feel like you need to change something just because I didn't go out of my way to design as efficient a killer as the others. Mari's kind of the normal person here anyway (well, from my perspective.
For what it's worth, I myself have whispered to Dune to make Mari better somehow, though it had more to do with her survivability than her killaffinity.
Quote from: El Cideon on March 03, 2010, 07:34:02 AMEh. You don't really need to modify anything, really. Last night's failure was mostly just bot hate (3/2/2 on a full attack? Really?) Heavy gravity penalty has been messing with my accuracy for a while too, so that may be skewing the numbers. More to the point, though, I just don't think you should feel like you need to change something just because I didn't go out of my way to design as efficient a killer as the others. Mari's kind of the normal person here anyway (well, from my perspective.
Maybe, but this is more a mechanical thing. I feel those dead HD for the Air Bloodline are putting Mari a little bit too behind the curve and that this is a disservice to you. The rest of it I have no problem with since it's your choice, but I don't feel the Air Bloodline choice is balanced well enough.
and your HAND...GAH YOUR HAND~
anyhow, I will be there for next session, to dune's curiousity. But almost no time between now and then
In no particular order:
I'm going to treat the dead levels for the air bloodline as quasi-racial HD for elementals.
http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Elemental_Type
You get a d8 HD, cleric bab, 2 base skill points, good reflex save and no class abilities. These are the bloodline abilities you get. Racial HD without anything else is pretty much a dump level, but you're getting the bloodline powers to compensate.
----
Gemcutter (Su)
By invoking the Gem card, Knight gains the ability to cut as hard as adamantine. Twice per day as a free action, you may declare a single melee attack as a gemcutter attack. You ignore the hardness of an object as if your weapon is made of adamantine. Further, you bypass damage reduction magic, silver, cold iron, adamantine or mithral.
Rat: I meant to tell you this explicitly in the post above, but Gem's currently exhausted. You won't be able to draw on her powers until at least one rest. I suspect you may have gathered this anyway, but no sense in leaving the question unasked and unanswered.
Gem's a girl?
Funny story! I mean for her to be genderless, but I keep calling her a girl. Gems make me think of jewelry which makes me think of girls.
Complete Tangent: Gem always makes me think of Breath of Fire 1, since that's what Ryu was named in the file on that cart when I rented it for the first time. I started a new file and named him Gem as well, thinking that was supposed to be his real name or something.
Dragongirl Gem x Knight, anyone? Scary!
And here I thought Gem was a guy, and even referred to her as 'brother' IC. I think.
Call him/her/it what you will and I'll try and go along with it, Rat. You cards are all confusing!
Us and our lack of appendages.
Not now! You can thank the slaad for giving you a good hard...hand. Yes.
That's all he gave me.
Right?
Riiiiiiiiiight?
We'll find out Tuesday!
(Hint: Get tested. Please.)
:|
(Don't worry, you can just claim the bumps are chaotic love bites! Besides, the gills and slimy skin get the boys into your yard all the time!)
:|
Knight dear, you won't find any other slaad to mate with if you keep that :| face going!
Isn't it realistic to have side effects from participating in mating rituals, SlaadKnight?
:P
Would I really make Knight's hand pregnant?
Do you really want us to answer that?
Yes, why not?
If the dice said to. *nods* :)
And now nobody will speak of this again. Seriously I draw the line at pregnancy jokes. <_<
Right-o! We have gaming tonight so let's all prepare for it!
So what did you guys think of the session? General feedback time!
I had fun with it. It wasn't what I expected from the start, but the negotiations were tense and a lot of fun to play out. I had figured Kam would have a big spotlight moment by telling Ogremoch to stuff it and a huge fight to escape Nixale would pursue, but it wasn't meant to be.
I liked how things worked out. The game suddenly got political. I.. was pretty much against fighting in there, it seemed suicidally dangerous. No doubt there'll be plenty of fighting to make up for it later, I suspect consequences will only grow in magnitude.
Since the portal will take a few days, for now we should try and head over to Stratusberg and negotiate with leadership there to assist Hardsoil. I figure that they can assist with mercenary adventurers or something like that- we hopefully can convince them that there's a vested interest in keeping the place neutral and intact.
Claw Proficiency [General]
Requirements: You must be in the highly specific position of having one hand replaced with a claw from a creature one size catagory larger than you.
Benefit: You no longer suffer a -2 penalty to attacks made using this hand. Furthermore, the large size of the hand means you treat yourself as one size category larger as far when making opposed disarm or sunder checks.
That feat is fine, Rat.
I had fun. Mostly agreeing with Rat in that fighting our way out sounded like suicide. Personally don't think there was anything especially unfair about the situation from a player's perspective since, well, Elemental Prince of Evil, you get what you pay for (though Mari was irate of course). I expected there to be a catch when we brought Kam to these guys, we didn't have an alternative, that's exactly the kind of thing they'd exploit, etc. Anyway, what kind of self-respecting adventurers don't accrue a few powerful enemies along the way? (Of course, I'm not the one who got cursed.)
Mostly, I like seeing that the consequences of someone's actions can sometimes be completely unexpected, which...well, who really expected us to start a war when we went down to Nixale? While this is potentially a complication that could keep us locked down in Hardsoil a while somewhere down the road (and those Earth plane attack penalties hurt and we want to be away from them), it really doesn't have to. Immediate future, it just gives us something else to do when we hit the next plane.
Mmm.
Overall, I liked last session more than I disliked. I liked that I got to use intimidate and dialogue to get my way and scare the crap out of the original crew meant to pressure us. I liked the Gruesome Ruby setup as a trap...though it seemed a bit...flittery of them. Ogremoch really. What I mean by that is that we were entirely heading that direction to begin with. Given Ogremoch's goals of "Steal our treasure AND/OR enslave Kam" it just seemed a really odd choice of request. I'm pretty sure before making it he knew which way I was headed. It just felt like that ended up being a square block in the series of round holes along the route to where we got and made the overall setup seem odd. That could've been some form of adding to the noose, but instead it was 'go where you were anyway, and just in case you weren't going to charge into my trap, MAKE SURE TO STEP IN MY TRAP'. I dunno.
Given the setup, I would've been much more expecting him to send us somewhere that had some impentrable wall he had put up just so I had to call in the favor he offered. That would've mentally fit right in with the whole scam. Sure we would've tricked our way around it most likely, but it would've utilized the opportunity given to move the scam forward.
But then again, they let out the rumor of the gruesome ruby, a convenient trap to get adventurers killed, with "And this will get you killed because it is cursed" as part of the rumor. So I suppose from the beginning they weren't really great scam artists, just diligent ones.
The return back was somewhat clearly a trap that we walked into and while I appreciate (and liked) the general theme and was fine with how it finally played out, I didn't really enjoy it in the actual play. I didn't since it was so extreme. You've explained why, but as a not particularly diplomatic character, I was set up in what felt like a bad place to even have the interesting argument from Kam's perspective, leaving others to do the negociation.
In character, Kam was placed in the situation of:
A)I can't attack because it will get everyone killed. It was evident.
B)I'm offered slavery (unacceptable outcome) or death for everyone (also unaccetpable).
C)He has his religion assaulted as well.
D)And it's all coming from someone dealing out these terms at arms reach. Not 'behind some protective shield or whatnot' which can casually be seen as insurmountable.
Which means in character he's positively furious for the negociation which doesn't give me much room to play out discussing it or flexing moral sides of things because of that setup. But there's no give in it either. Nothing even as unsubtle as "Stay here a year and your companions can leave free" or whatnot. Or "We'll charge you 100000 gp for your lives~". There's no room for back and forth as Kam in that setup but neither is there any room to act, which left me playing out impotent fury and getting cursed for it (yay). The negociation as given simply had no move in it that could be played with as a furious character. So effectively Kam was center stage, but unable to take any real actions to resolve the challenge in front of him without breaking character. For an entrapment scenario, it largely felt like it almost needed a completely external bit not to end in death.
And ooc that made me sad as I don't like the "Acting IC will cause a TPK" and I kind of felt it sort of was there. I appreciate the notion that there are powers that we shouldn't fight. I'm cool with that. I return the notion that the planes are a dangerous place, and when such powers do unacceptable things ("I tear Knight's arm off", "We're going to enslave you with the might of the city") Kam might rush over and stab them in the face and get us all killed. It's not a reflection of not accepting that said powers might flatten the party, but that I'm playing a very physical character that would sacrifice himself to try and get the others out generally or to hold up to moral belief. And it'd suck to die, but it's a predictable response in most of those. This is part of why the planes have a dangerous reputation. Sometimes good and moderately powerful beings encounter evil and hugely powerful beings and get swatted like flies when they try and stop them from eating souls or some crap.
I would've enjoyed the scenario more if there was more set up for the scam to even try to succeed at that point than what it ended up being. I mean, I can't imagine how that became a sensible option for Kikula. "Okay, I want to enslave this person who is dangerous or get them and their party killed for treasure. At the moment, they might not suspect me. I'm going to invite them into my fancy office and do this face to face in an antagonistic fashion. I'll do this because it will...obviously succeed? There's no real chance that they'll skewer me before the watching high priest neutralizes them all with his divine powers? And that even if I'm instantly revived by the high priest that's PAINFUL and it's going to get blood all over my nice office?" That was really the best quick setup he could come up with with a cities resources? Not casually from a safe watching point with us lead to a ready made interrogation/prison in the temple with deathtrap switches and clearly little chance of violence doing anything? Rigging the scenario so that either he got me as a slave OR we died...without him getting stabbed in the face and possibly have to get pulled back from the dead?
It at least baffled me that even though it was a sure thing he'd get revived and he could easily believe that he and the high priest could handle/take us all that he'd select a route that was most likely to lead to him getting stabbed 'just because if you stab me, clearly a rational person would see that they'd never get out alive' over any set of options that either left Kamvakua confused or unable to deal real harm to him.
and yes, I largely accept that the above is probably pretty unfair since it was on the fly conversion from me sending us flying off the rails, but it was also why I had problems with the scenario. The combination of idiot flunky and total extremism just didn't work well to me, and pretty much did require the high priest suddenly deciding that 'no, it's a total idiots gambit to only accept complete victory or painful losses for all sides' to end it and take adails offer of some trade value over it.
I suppose I felt Kam was given two options that weren't acceptable, rather than some combination of unacceptable and BAD and I think a choice between "Unacceptable and BAD" is way more interesting than "Unacceptable and Unacceptable" for moral play. "You can leave with your companions if you give up all your material wealth." "You can leave with your companions if we take your left arm." "You can leave... if you agree to do us one service of any type of our choosing at a later time." etc, etc. Those are terrible options, but they're weighed against something even worse which provides some give to discuss or even stress about the choice.
The end result is it set up for politics and war, which rat likes, and thus is good. I'm cursed (Sadness), but hey that's a quest, so fun there even if I'm gonna miss the broad side of a barn for a while. We've got an exciting war type thing coming on with both sides being things we don't want to win. Said war keeps us in earth longer, but that's not a big deal to me. It's an opportunity to go touch base with the guardinals on Adail's side and the Eladril/Court of the Stars on mine. It's got the possibility of it being difficult for such good powers to move to intervene with the nearby city of devils potentially viewing that as an act of war. Not to mention of course, you don't FIND the court of stars, it finds you, so Kam can't just guide us over to ask for help in that fashion. We can ask for help from Kam/Adail's friend knights and probably from the elven cities around there.
I do insist that we do not treat everything as 'must be done now' though. I'm here for a game, not a race. Sure, stalling out is not good, but there's a lot of variation and other types of play available outside of 'and now we run to our next objective.' That kept being brought up with Gem, and fine, we played it. We rushed right toward Gem as fast as we could dig. Let's slow down a notch and enjoy traveling to the forests of heaven. We can save the desperation for our negociation with the actual heavenly types.
:P see, no rush on feedback.
I'm not real big on session by session feedback posts, since I never really know what to say and I'm not that wordy anyway, but I'll throw in a bit here.
Definately felt like the first time Adail really contributed to the solution to a problem, even though Knight did most of the dealing, I still set it up. Usually this is entirely my fault for simply thinking and/or typing too slow(I have an idea, someone else says it first, I delete what I was typing, etc), but it was still cool to actually come up with something.
On the unacceptable vs unacceptable note...well, it makes sense for someone of this particular flavor of LE to offer a choice like that. Submit or die, that's all there is to it. If they can force that(which they had the muscle to do), there's no reason they wouldn't. Just put us in the classic situation of Find That Third Option (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TakeAThirdOption). Also, dunno if this is what Dune was going for, but Kikula seemed like he was wanting Kam to SUBMIT to him personally, as some sort of symbolic victory over the goliath way of life that he'd abandoned. Wasn't real bright, but.
Overall session was fun. I was sweating bullets during the negotiations, since I have no Diplo to even try to fall back on(and whaddya know, it's not a class skill for Sacred Fists either, so I can't get any! Despite it being a class skill for both Monks AND Clerics! I'm convinced that the Sacred Fist skill list is retarded now, by the by. They don't even get Knowlegde Religion...).
Diplomacy is only on mari's class list. Most prc skill lists are pretty dumb. Not much you can do there.
It'd be a pretty poor symbolic victory. Goliath's are fiercely local tribal folks. The whole go off and adventure? They don't do that. It's like a krynn mountain dwarf heading out to go swimming. While Kam holds onto a fair bit of trappings, by very nature of plane traveling, he's a self-exile of his tribe and has been since he made the choice to abandon his duties to his tribe to follow that dwarf. If he headed back, he'd probably be treated with a fair bit of suspicion, and generally at best as a friendly outsider.
Kikula, if I was to guess, would be a direct outcast/exile. Possibly by choice, possibly not, but definitely intentionally expelled from his tribe. So a fair bit different from kam's situation.
This is mostly picking over your replies and adding some illumination to the workings of what went on.
Quote from: Dracos on March 12, 2010, 01:44:15 PMOverall, I liked last session more than I disliked. I liked that I got to use intimidate and dialogue to get my way and scare the crap out of the original crew meant to pressure us. I liked the Gruesome Ruby setup as a trap...though it seemed a bit...flittery of them. Ogremoch really. What I mean by that is that we were entirely heading that direction to begin with. Given Ogremoch's goals of "Steal our treasure AND/OR enslave Kam" it just seemed a really odd choice of request. I'm pretty sure before making it he knew which way I was headed. It just felt like that ended up being a square block in the series of round holes along the route to where we got and made the overall setup seem odd. That could've been some form of adding to the noose, but instead it was 'go where you were anyway, and just in case you weren't going to charge into my trap, MAKE SURE TO STEP IN MY TRAP'. I dunno.
Mostly? Earth Elementals are like the earth - slow moving, unimaginative, solid. They have a con, it works really well. They're going to use it if it remotely works out at all. They figured the party would either TPK, in which case loot and yay for them, or Kam would call on Ogremoch's help as Kikula said. I won't spoil what would happen then, but the entire temple was a deathtrap. You only saw a little of it with the gas trap, but it was designed to kill adventurers without taking their loot. The slaad was fucking all of that up to hell, making it very much a busted situation through no fault of Ogremoch's toadies.
QuoteGiven the setup, I would've been much more expecting him to send us somewhere that had some impentrable wall he had put up just so I had to call in the favor he offered. That would've mentally fit right in with the whole scam. Sure we would've tricked our way around it most likely, but it would've utilized the opportunity given to move the scam forward. But then again, they let out the rumor of the gruesome ruby, a convenient trap to get adventurers killed, with "And this will get you killed because it is cursed" as part of the rumor. So I suppose from the beginning they weren't really great scam artists, just diligent ones.
Yes. They're not going to win awards for creativity, but they're going to make sure things proceed how they want. Diligent is an excellent word.
QuoteWhich means in character he's positively furious for the negociation which doesn't give me much room to play out discussing it or flexing moral sides of things because of that setup. But there's no give in it either. Nothing even as unsubtle as "Stay here a year and your companions can leave free" or whatnot. Or "We'll charge you 100000 gp for your lives~". There's no room for back and forth as Kam in that setup but neither is there any room to act, which left me playing out impotent fury and getting cursed for it (yay). The negociation as given simply had no move in it that could be played with as a furious character. So effectively Kam was center stage, but unable to take any real actions to resolve the challenge in front of him without breaking character. For an entrapment scenario, it largely felt like it almost needed a completely external bit not to end in death.
They were playing hardball, no doubt. There was room for what you said - look at what Adail did with the information on the Xorn king. A proper counter-offer did get consideration, but they weren't going to hand it to you. They were in a position of power and weren't going to let up. The design of it was to place the choices on Kamvakua, who as an exalted character I was hoping would thrive in this sort of incredibly difficult situation where the easier path is one of folding to evil, and the hard and possibly lethal path is one of defying it.
I did think it would have been IC for Kamvakua do to something besides rage. He's been played as a noble barbarian type, yeah? His entire PrC is about righteous wrath and his feats give him unusual control while in a rage. That ties into the above about facing a difficult situation versus evil, and hopefully using that rage as a weapon, not as a constraint to bind Kamvakua.
QuoteI would've enjoyed the scenario more if there was more set up for the scam to even try to succeed at that point than what it ended up being. I mean, I can't imagine how that became a sensible option for Kikula. "Okay, I want to enslave this person who is dangerous or get them and their party killed for treasure. At the moment, they might not suspect me. I'm going to invite them into my fancy office and do this face to face in an antagonistic fashion. I'll do this because it will...obviously succeed? There's no real chance that they'll skewer me before the watching high priest neutralizes them all with his divine powers? And that even if I'm instantly revived by the high priest that's PAINFUL and it's going to get blood all over my nice office?" That was really the best quick setup he could come up with with a cities resources? Not casually from a safe watching point with us lead to a ready made interrogation/prison in the temple with deathtrap switches and clearly little chance of violence doing anything? Rigging the scenario so that either he got me as a slave OR we died...without him getting stabbed in the face and possibly have to get pulled back from the dead?
Well, look at Kikula's situation. The scam of the Gruesome Ruby just went tits up, his first reports are that the slaad that beat up his temple got taken down by Kam and company AND he's on the hook with his boss to that. By now, you know Kikula isn't a nice person. He's a bully under a veneer of politeness, an archetype of lawful evil. He's going to invite you in, admit the truth and dare you to defy him. He doesn't believe that someone can try and resist the entire army of Nixale and that you'll do the sensible thing and bend the knee to Ogremoch. Sure, he has to explain his plan, but that's so Kamvakua follows along and does what he wants.
Was it probably too hands on? Possibly, but he has pride as a warrior and some levels to back it up. Was it a bit hasty and panicking that the entire scam was coming down and Ogremoch would be pissed? Absolutely. I think what you need to understand here is that you're not dealing with a rational actor that you can correctly guess all of his motives for in session. You're dealing with someone whom you only know a little bit about and no idea why he really does what he does. I think you're over-analyzing this particular segment, when you'd be better served accepting that he did it and assuming he has reasons he did.
Quoteand yes, I largely accept that the above is probably pretty unfair since it was on the fly conversion from me sending us flying off the rails, but it was also why I had problems with the scenario. The combination of idiot flunky and total extremism just didn't work well to me, and pretty much did require the high priest suddenly deciding that 'no, it's a total idiots gambit to only accept complete victory or painful losses for all sides' to end it and take adails offer of some trade value over it.
The priest was there as a safety valve if things went completely tits up(They did!) and to give you a small but fighting chance to avoid fighting out of Nixale or die trying. He was also evaluating Kikula's dealing with the situation and curious as to the adventurers who made such a mess of the Gruesome Ruby fiasco.
QuoteI suppose I felt Kam was given two options that weren't acceptable, rather than some combination of unacceptable and BAD and I think a choice between "Unacceptable and BAD" is way more interesting than "Unacceptable and Unacceptable" for moral play. "You can leave with your companions if you give up all your material wealth." "You can leave with your companions if we take your left arm." "You can leave... if you agree to do us one service of any type of our choosing at a later time." etc, etc. Those are terrible options, but they're weighed against something even worse which provides some give to discuss or even stress about the choice.
I do agree with you overall here, but I felt it was more in character to the personalities and situation to be very black and white. They wanted Kam bad and Kikula was panicking.
QuoteThe end result is it set up for politics and war, which rat likes, and thus is good. I'm cursed (Sadness), but hey that's a quest, so fun there even if I'm gonna miss the broad side of a barn for a while. We've got an exciting war type thing coming on with both sides being things we don't want to win. Said war keeps us in earth longer, but that's not a big deal to me. It's an opportunity to go touch base with the guardinals on Adail's side and the Eladril/Court of the Stars on mine. It's got the possibility of it being difficult for such good powers to move to intervene with the nearby city of devils potentially viewing that as an act of war. Not to mention of course, you don't FIND the court of stars, it finds you, so Kam can't just guide us over to ask for help in that fashion. We can ask for help from Kam/Adail's friend knights and probably from the elven cities around there.
In short, yes, I do like that this has a lot of hooks and reasons to do things for most of the cast.
QuoteI do insist that we do not treat everything as 'must be done now' though. I'm here for a game, not a race. Sure, stalling out is not good, but there's a lot of variation and other types of play available outside of 'and now we run to our next objective.' That kept being brought up with Gem, and fine, we played it. We rushed right toward Gem as fast as we could dig. Let's slow down a notch and enjoy traveling to the forests of heaven. We can save the desperation for our negociation with the actual heavenly types.
This is an interesting point. I don't fault Rat IC for wanting to hurry, but we'll see how it goes. I view Knight very much as a work in progress, though the pace certainly doesn't always need to be breakneck. This is fundamentally an inter-PC issue though so I won't go into it.
Quote from: El Cideon on March 10, 2010, 05:35:43 PM
I had fun. Mostly agreeing with Rat in that fighting our way out sounded like suicide. Personally don't think there was anything especially unfair about the situation from a player's perspective since, well, Elemental Prince of Evil, you get what you pay for (though Mari was irate of course). I expected there to be a catch when we brought Kam to these guys, we didn't have an alternative, that's exactly the kind of thing they'd exploit, etc. Anyway, what kind of self-respecting adventurers don't accrue a few powerful enemies along the way? (Of course, I'm not the one who got cursed.)
Mostly, I like seeing that the consequences of someone's actions can sometimes be completely unexpected, which...well, who really expected us to start a war when we went down to Nixale? While this is potentially a complication that could keep us locked down in Hardsoil a while somewhere down the road (and those Earth plane attack penalties hurt and we want to be away from them), it really doesn't have to. Immediate future, it just gives us something else to do when we hit the next plane.
I thought Mari would appreciate the chaos this spawned. You guys have left a footprint in Earth that's not going away any time soon, as well as a lot of hooks to enrich the gaming world.
Quote from: Gatewalker on March 12, 2010, 03:25:31 PM
I'm not real big on session by session feedback posts, since I never really know what to say and I'm not that wordy anyway, but I'll throw in a bit here.
Definitely felt like the first time Adail really contributed to the solution to a problem, even though Knight did most of the dealing, I still set it up. Usually this is entirely my fault for simply thinking and/or typing too slow(I have an idea, someone else says it first, I delete what I was typing, etc), but it was still cool to actually come up with something.
Between your stomach and typing you haven't had too many chances to shine. I'm happy you did and in such an interesting way. You get the gold star this week. <_<
QuoteOn the unacceptable vs unacceptable note...well, it makes sense for someone of this particular flavor of LE to offer a choice like that. Submit or die, that's all there is to it. If they can force that(which they had the muscle to do), there's no reason they wouldn't. Just put us in the classic situation of Find That Third Option (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TakeAThirdOption). Also, dunno if this is what Dune was going for, but Kikula seemed like he was wanting Kam to SUBMIT to him personally, as some sort of symbolic victory over the goliath way of life that he'd abandoned. Wasn't real bright, but.
You know how I talked about Earth Elementals not being really creative or fast a few posts ago? Kikula ended up working for an overgrown Earth Elemental. Think about it.
QuoteOverall session was fun. I was sweating bullets during the negotiations, since I have no Diplo to even try to fall back on(and whaddya know, it's not a class skill for Sacred Fists either, so I can't get any! Despite it being a class skill for both Monks AND Clerics! I'm convinced that the Sacred Fist skill list is retarded now, by the by. They don't even get Knowledge Religion...).
Guys, if a PrC list has a completely boneheaded omission, talk to me and I'll probably add the skill in to it's class list. Been there, done that.
If I started ranting about skills I'd surely never stop.
In retrospect it was probably super dumb of us to go back to Nixale in the first place. Should've tried to swing around it or something, given that Ogremoch's dudes were screwing around with us. That the situation was horrible is pretty appropriate. They... do have questionable negotiation tactics.
Quote from: dracI do insist that we do not treat everything as 'must be done now' though. I'm here for a game, not a race. Sure, stalling out is not good, but there's a lot of variation and other types of play available outside of 'and now we run to our next objective.' That kept being brought up with Gem, and fine, we played it. We rushed right toward Gem as fast as we could dig. Let's slow down a notch and enjoy traveling to the forests of heaven. We can save the desperation for our negociation with the actual heavenly types.
I liked the pacing of the last two sessions, and I liked the tension that being in a rush provided. Knight is always going to be restless (with good reason!) sooooo. Does the current situation not seem a good reason to hurry in general? We've spent so much of the game
not being in a rush or hurry or having circumstances pressure us, and I've found myself liking the change.
Quote from: Dracos on March 13, 2010, 12:49:30 AMIt'd be a pretty poor symbolic victory. Goliath's are fiercely local tribal folks. The whole go off and adventure? They don't do that. It's like a krynn mountain dwarf heading out to go swimming. While Kam holds onto a fair bit of trappings, by very nature of plane traveling, he's a self-exile of his tribe and has been since he made the choice to abandon his duties to his tribe to follow that dwarf. If he headed back, he'd probably be treated with a fair bit of suspicion, and generally at best as a friendly outsider.
Kikula, if I was to guess, would be a direct outcast/exile. Possibly by choice, possibly not, but definitely intentionally expelled from his tribe. So a fair bit different from kam's situation.
Yes, yes he was. He didn't talk about his tribe or his origins much for exactly that reason. I think you can imagine why he was expelled and be close to correct. If you decide Kikula needs to be permanently penalized for his bullshit, perhaps you could investigate this?
As an addendum to the above, I do also see the need for breaks in the tension. Just, conflict and tension go hand in hand with 'interesting/difficult/challenging situation' for me.
Quote from: Carthrat on March 13, 2010, 01:33:51 AM
If I started ranting about skills I'd surely never stop.
At great personal harm to my sanity, what bothers you about 3.5 skills?
QuoteIn retrospect it was probably super dumb of us to go back to Nixale in the first place. Should've tried to swing around it or something, given that Ogremoch's dudes were screwing around with us. That the situation was horrible is pretty appropriate. They... do have questionable negotiation tactics.
Yes. I had some notes if you picked up on this and tried one of the other paths on the Bleakroot path. All of them went deeper into Ogremoch's territory, but you'd have freedom and be mobile quarry for Kikula and company to send punitive attacks at. It would've led in a different direction and probably a portal to another realm, but that's here nor there now.
Assuming elementals didn't splatter all of you in a grisly way!
oh boy
Many classes receive what I feel are an inappropriate quantity of skills, especially when compared to similar classes (fighter vs. barb! the barb's already better at fighting, but he gets more and better skills to boot...)
Many skills scale exceptionally poorly, particularly athletics skills which are entirely outclassed by various contrivances later. What's wrong with high jumps?
Several skills should really have been parceled together, e.g. hide/move silently, spot/search, open locks/disable device etc.
Because of the way some skills work (again, stuff like hide/move silent, search, disable device etc) they can ruin attempts to puzzle things out or apply certain methods to some situations (hiding isn't hard if nobody's looking for you; the fact that many people can make spot checks can completely fuck some infiltrations that shouldn't reallllly fail...)
Social skills are one of my biggest rants and can be applied to many systems. The issues are generally ones of scope (i.e. 'what can these skills do?'), applicability/power (i.e. 'so just HOW CONVINCING is +20 diplo compared to +5 diplo?), the fact that people are really complex folks and generally you cannot shift someone's viewpoint that easily in a single interaction (i.e. 'can I roll diplo to instantly befriend my archrival? nat 20!!1'), the fact that sense motive as a lie detector is really fucking gay (i.e. 'IS HE LYING YES HE IS GUYS KILL HIM'), arbitrarily scaling DCs (i.e. 'well you have +20 to diplo so I'll set the difficulty at 30. Oh, you only have 15? Well it'll be 25 then.'), that sometimes their presence means otherwise reasonable statements are taken horribly (i.e. 'why won't you ally with me, the orcs will totally crush you otherwise')
Some skills are fucking godly and broken, e.g. tumble/UMD. By 'broken' I mean 'if you can have these skills, you will have them or you aren't playing as well as you could be. No questions.'
Is that all, Rat? Tell us how you really feel!
I HATE DIPLOMACY CHECKS
WHY CAN'T I RUN UP WALLS WITH BALANCE
WHY DO I NEED A FEAT FOR SURVIVAL TO WORK
With epic balance, you can balance on a cloud! Isn't that a worthwhile use if you can get DC 120?
yeaaaaaah but I think the DC should be like 30 <_<
Ok, maybe 40. The point is, 120 is too high. <_<
QuoteThey were playing hardball, no doubt. There was room for what you said - look at what Adail did with the information on the Xorn king. A proper counter-offer did get consideration, but they weren't going to hand it to you. They were in a position of power and weren't going to let up. The design of it was to place the choices on Kamvakua, who as an exalted character I was hoping would thrive in this sort of incredibly difficult situation where the easier path is one of folding to evil, and the hard and possibly lethal path is one of defying it.
eh. It didn't come across that way to me. Maybe I dropped the ball on it but really the easier path was 'lash out and be barbaric' and the harder path was 'do anything but'. I dunno.
QuoteI did think it would have been IC for Kamvakua do to something besides rage. He's been played as a noble barbarian type, yeah? His entire PrC is about righteous wrath and his feats give him unusual control while in a rage. That ties into the above about facing a difficult situation versus evil, and hopefully using that rage as a weapon, not as a constraint to bind Kamvakua.
Yeah, we ended up going for different things there. I played up the rage because it felt too much like shots at his way of life rather than something on a good/evil axis. It also was effective evil treachery. It was the type of thing that largely didn't go well in Kam's experience range. Situations where he has to sit and convince the other guy not to wipe out a group of people by talking to them isn't something he does much at all. He glares and suggests that they take a different route through another plane instead.
I suspect had kam not just been the total epicenter of "Hey, I offered you stuff in good faith for free" I might have played him more on a diplomacy front there, but it really did feel like that was the third time they backstabbed them and was doing it in a fashion that was just anathema to him. I really think I would've had it react better had it not been so "I have no interest in anything else whatsoever".
But maybe I'll glance out of character and also note I'm not the biggest fan of playing out tight diplomatic scenes with a non-diplomatic focused character. Rat likes that more (and power to him there). For me, it's less my taste and I'll often end up doing somewhat poorly in that fashion if I'm not expecting to be doing it as I'll tend to lean more toward "well, trying to be super clever in language is not what this guy is about, how can I express what he's about?" Here I went tribal/furious/Freedom or Death. I did play with the 'can think clearly' bit in rage, but I took it more on the line that he wasn't going into berserker about the setup coming from 'one of his own type of people' and less 'I'm calm and serene despite being in the grasp of fury', at least on this take of it. Kam was angry about the whole thing, and not because he was whipping himself into a battle rage, but that a repeated offer of slavery or death for his friends was anathema.
In retrospect, there was a lot of cooler things I could've done along that vein...but even knowing it, I really would've still taken the same general direction rather than the route reached victory in this case. I mean, that's partially why these are RP games and not chess. Choosing the wrong actions for in character reasons is part of the game.
Quote from: Carthrat on March 13, 2010, 02:05:22 AM
Ok, maybe 40. The point is, 120 is too high. <_<
30 is a min of level 27. At this point everyone can fly freely because a magical item of flight that takes no space is effectively 3 coppers investment to them at this point. :P
They all should be riding their little yellow clouds.
Quote from: Carthrat on March 13, 2010, 02:05:22 AM
Ok, maybe 40. The point is, 120 is too high. <_<
It depends on the campaign in question, though I agree with the underlying point that balance needs to be fucking useful sometime before mid-high epic.
Nah, not 30 ranks. I mean 30 on the skill check.
I mean, this doesn't just apply to balance; stuff like climb/jump etc could also use useful applications later on. It does very heavily depend on game tone though. Sometimes you really don't want impossible things to be possible without magic or something.
And sometimes in magic heavy worlds, you wonder why anyone would be such an idiot as to practice athletics where you can jump a mighty ten feet high over magic where you can jump over a mountain.
Anyhow, I should yammer on desired direction~
I would much rather head to Arborea than to Stratusberg right now. We can bug the air denizens on our way back. This is totally driven by greed of getting uncursed, but also that there's a lot of neat folks there. Adail's knights are there, which make for a good set of recruits and they might be able to help me out (Unlikely).
The Court of the Stars is there and they make it their business that cool places don't get overrun by evil because they like having party spots. They'd definitely be able to fix kam's curse no problems. Challenge? They have a moving front door that is findable because the queen wants us to come by, not because we want to find it. Mari actually would probably find the place fun though and Kam would totally not mind swinging by if we get a chance.
There's the elvish cities (land of the dead) that provide a very solid 'if we can't go there' recruitment and curse fixing spot. Personally, I think it'd be fun to head into there for a short while, check out the rising tree architecture and the homes of various patrons of good, possibly hear a little planar news on other Cards, and well just give greetings again.
I'm hoping it's a given that any knowledge that isn't in the books that is created for arborea can be just considered 'already known' by Kam or Adail given they both spent quite some time there. Maybe not fine details, but 'where x cool cities are' certainly :)
Technically we have time to do both, so.
We likely do. For me it's a matter of which is going to take longer, though. I mean, we don't have a ton to do in Stratusberg, right? Find out who the local head honchos are, talk them into helping, basically. Getting Kam uncursed soon is obviously desirable, but it doesn't really factor into diplomacy and that's all Stratusberg should involve. Unless they demand that we perform a QUEST or something first (and if they do, we can still just say fuck it and do that on the way back), that's pretty much it. Seems to me that it's easy enough to knock that out before jumping to another plane where we're not 100% sure of a way back.
It occurs to me that it's kind of a dick move to say, "Yeah, Kam can deal with being cursed for a while." I just figure help from Stratusberg is likely to get there sooner.
It's more that Tam said 'it will take days to prepare the portal', which means we have a few days to kill, which might as well be used touching base with Stratusberg.
Of course Hardsoil people could go do that, we have no obligation to hold their hands through everything. I mean, if they're asking for military aid we'd need them to give us like a letter and, um, discretionary funds. Yes.
Yeah, that's just it. I do think that they can do the whole message to stratusberg easily enough. And if we go we're really going as messengers of Granny Tam, no better than any other with our lack of strong ties to the city. Does that mean we shouldn't be? I dunno, I don't personally have much interest in it, but if we really want to do it, we can.
If we go it could be used to provide real character to those who we might be fighting with as well, I guess.
Oddly I think our overall goal is that both sides lose, with the obvious min win being Hardsoil survives and is safe, largely because if either side wins, they'll likely conquer the entire area up to the opposing sides territory in order to recoup their war expenses.
Overall, I see we have these groups around/possible:
A)Hardsoil - involved, no further action needed.
B)The Dao - not involved, but close. Unknown element. May decide to take a side. May decide to revenge on hardsoil during the chaos. May be convinced TO take a side. Difficult, interesting, etc.
C)The Xorn - The nebulous bad guys number one...BUT they don't dislike or hate us. It may oddly be in our interest to contact them now because of the two groups, I think this is the less bad one to win. Either way it may be in our interest to flare them up early in exchange for amnesty for the city of hardsoil.
D)Ogremoch flunkies - the clear bad guys number two. I don't think there's a lot of room to play ball with them, and at least a few PCs IC won't want to play ball with them. They know a war is planned and are getting ready for that now.
E)Devil City - uninvolved, but may GET involved if celestials are involved OR if ogremoch bribes them to. In other words, I expect if things went badly but not terribly early for ogremoch we would see them bribed to get involved. If things went well, but celestials showed up, they might get involved anyway to ruin them.
F)Stratusberg - uninvolved, but close. I think we generally have been overstating the case of how very much it matters to them. It really depends on the level of their trade ties as neither evil group is particularly well suited for invading the air plane and less for having interest in it at all. Really, if their trade ties are good (or can become good) then they'll probably throw in with us. If they aren't, then we're going to hit a diplomatic wall as we convince them to send their folks to a place where they are not very suited for to die for a battle that doesn't involve them at all and doesn't offer profit potential. The kind of thing only adventurers and good guys do.
G)Knights of Arbor - uninvolved. I think it's a given that they will join up if adail asks, or at least some portion of the White knights will. May be able to fix kam's curse.
H)Court of the Stars - uninvolved. possible but not great likelihood of getting involved. They do totally make it their business to do that sort of thing, but that doesn't mean they'll even notice us to hear us out. Contact details are not particularly well defined in the BoED. Can fix kam's curse.
I)Elven cities - uninvolved, but they are clearly idiot do-gooders for the sake of doing good AND easy to find. May well be worth the ask. Kam has traveled along in that area before. Likely can fix Kam's curse.
J)Other small/midsized settlements in the area - There probably are some. Granny Tam though is probably better suited for calling in those favors and organizing them and I don't believe this will visibly enter the game space as something for us to do.
K)Other? Did I miss anyone?
alright, I think that's a reasonably robust detail of the sides involved.
As I said, I don't see too much interest in stratusberg, but hey we might want to talk to them. If we do, I think we're talking to their leaders or merchant guild, and possibly just a few adventuring groups in the area. I won't stand in our way if we really go there.
If I was to think of who I'd want to talk to with Arborea banned (boo), It'd be the Xorn...and the Devils.
alright plan coming here that a chaotic good person could never give.
I'd want to let the xorn know that the ogremoch guys have decided they need exterminating. That we, in hardsoil, have no grudge against them would like to consider ourselves friends of the xorn nation. We don't really want to get in the middle and are glad to offer trade relations. I am assuming there are enough of them to prove a real threat to Ogremoch's forces and at the same time if they don't both lose, this is the side we would rather have on top and ideally with a friendly treaty not to eat hardsoil up. And hey, they might need weapons or magic or things and we're glad to take some gold in exchange.
Then I would talk with the devils. There's a war that's going to be happening. Opportunity for misery. For profit. Whatever. I don't really want the whole of the city involved. I want one or two devils. I want to hire them. I want to hire them to convince the dao that the ogremoch group is really coming for them, not for the xorn, that the xorn is simply being used as an excuse and that they are going to sack the dao city for every bit of coin that they can get. I'll encourage said hired individual to charge the dao as much as they want for the information, give them freely as much information as we can divine on ogremoch group movements, and pay them decently well. I don't really care the details aside from that: A group unrelated to us and unrelated to hardsoil has provided the dao with the information to enter them into the war and make it very costly for ogremoch to make progress on attacking this front.
Bonus: Hire a small merc group to fly dao colors and attack an ogremoch bit. Just to help fuel the fires.
Alternate? We convince a stratusberg merchant to leak the information. Possibly the same outcome.
If these went off well, they'd provide that we won't be fighting the xorn directly anytime soon, the xorn would be ready to make the fight as fierce as possible between them and ogremoch's goons, the dao already hate the xorn, but now won't be able to properly consider allying with ogremoch's side and in the best of cases might even start attacking both sides.
Not a bad start for possibly a day or three's work. Of course, I dunno. I'm wavering over whether large scale war strategy would be a thing for kam to know well. I think that's really a better thing for Knight IC to be the expert on as Kam's experience and learning would be in tribal conflicts which involve armies of a few hundred tops probably.
From there we'd be well suited to be then bolstering hardsoil with allies so that it is difficult to take. Most likely the highest value is actually resources and food so that the village can generally hunker down and try and avoid direct skirmishes.
How big is hardsoil? has it just been possibly protected by proximity of the dao before from ogremoch's group taking over the area? Or is there some large neutral force that generally provides the encouragement for the dao or ogremoch groups to not simply just declare all the little towns in the area are theirs and should pay them tribute lest they sit an army of earth elementals on their doorstep? I know the existence of the xorn technically provide the sort of storm of powers that would allow for small neutral gaps to exist, but I'm just wondering are there some other interesting players that might be riled by the changes?
Or is it possible that it's just that ogremoch and the dao do already maintain large territories and while they do grow in fits occassionally, they are largely at their present natural limits of just what they can easily control or at least in that comfortable range that empires sit at before they decide to devour additional territory.
It's a curiosity that I wonder if Granny Tam has an opinion on. I suppose it might not be known information why certain empires move as they do, but if a local has a good feel for why their village isn't invaded and paying taxes to the dao and/or others regularly, I'd be ears to it.
Also I apologize to Kotono for spamming with questions and campaign shaping curiosity on monday of a tuesday game. Sorry Ko, I be slow.
If you guys wanna dig up more information on Hardsoil, possible Earth allies or anything Drac raised in his post, toss K:P checks and post them? Thanks. Alternately you can start next session gabbing awhile with Tam, up to you if you wanna spend some game time on that.
<Dracos> roll 1d20+6 K:PA for 'local powers, villages, terrain of hardsoil surroundings'. Includes hopefully just straight out asking Granny Tam for that information because lay of the land is important.
<Hatbot> ACTION --> "Dracos rolls 1d20+6 K:PA for 'local powers, villages, terrain of hardsoil surroundings'. Includes hopefully just straight out asking Granny Tam for that information because lay of the land is important. and gets 8." [1d20=2]
<Dracos> Look, I have 20 numbers on my dice.
<Dracos> :)
I'm surprised you didn't roll a 1.
Mmm. Man, I should've thought of this. I'll, um, ape your format.
Dao: I think these guys would squarely be in Ogremoch's camp without some intervention. We've got to remember that the Xorns are probably really bad for the Dao, since they like to eat gems and hey look who has gems! The way they prey on merchant caravans is also quite likely to cause the Dao to take a dip in toll profits, and because the Xorns can earth glide there's not a lot they can do about it. However, I think they wouldn't want to see Hardsoil tanked or anything. Remember, the first time we entered, we had to show the guards tickets we bought from one of the Dao. They clearly have some kind of protection racket going that's probably easier than, say, outright conquering the place.
Xorns: First up, these guys really are a lesser evil. Second, it is extremely likely that everyone hates them (they're a racially motivated empire that eats precious things and preys on random travelers. They surely have few->no friends.) Third... well. I'm going to get to whether they should win or lose later, since I don't actually have a simple answer.
Ogremoch: His guys are basically assholes- but they're organized assholes. One thing that seems clear is that Ogremoch hasn't conquered that segment of the plane yet- obviously he has his reasons. He's not going there to take over, he's going there to crush a nascent empire before it becomes a threat. Evidently, he hasn't thought Hardsoil and the Dao and whatnot are a threat yet. He may team up with devils- or he may want nothing to do with them. I think he will win if he starts duking it out with the Xorns; they've had more presence, they've probably actually gone to war a few times, they have the experience, numbers, weapons, magic, etc, they're not racially motivated so they'll have an easier time picking up allies, etc. This assumes no interference, of course.
Devils: I'm not sure these guys won't get involved on their own if they hear about what's going on. I won't be suggesting dealing with them either- they're fundamentally dicks who are extremely likely to just screw us over. Naturally opposed to the following...
Various Good Expatriates: Hardsoil is essentially a storm in a teacup as far as the big picture goes, I'll bet. I'm sure they'd be willing to offer some aid, possibly even something really significant given our ties with them. The problem here is that bringing in a large contingent will escalate the conflict dramatically from a dispute between various neutral going on evil parties... to good versus evil, in an area where good looks to be on the minority.
Stratusburg: The antipathy is noted. It will really come down to this; is Stratusburg confident that no matter who wins on the other side of the portal, it won't affect them? If the Xorns do, it probably wouldn't, and if Hardsoil comes out on top, they're good. If Ogremoch comes out on top, then what is presently a mild antipathy between earth and air could become a full-blown hatred, depending on the disposition of Ogremoch's church.
Hardsoil: Hardsoil isn't actually at the center of this conflict. But it could be; we don't know all that much about it's policy. We aren't official agents of the town; we're simply friends with Granny Tam, who appears to have some clout. Since this is partially our fault (ok, it's entirely our fault), we do feel obligated to do something for the place. What that something is depends on what we/leadership thinks is best!
Drac's general plans there seem to mostly involve false flag operations; stirring up the kettle, so to speak, and getting everyone good and angry at each other. Additionally, it involves making overtures to the Xorns, which... basically means throwing Hardsoil's hat in the ring with them. We should keep in mind that if we do end up taking any actions like this, they will probably be figured out eventually, and be prepared for when they do.
<--->
Okay, overview done. The way I see it, we/Hardsoil have a few options.
Hardsoil, the new Belgium: Hardsoil is neutral and behaves as such, intending to weather out the war and preserve what it has, then pick up the pieces once it's over. We'd probably follow Knight's original suggestions and basically make the place look like a really hard target so nobody tried to fight, and any extra measures we take will be designed to get it all over and done with as quickly as possible. Celestial help would be at a minimum, but likely present; a few holy knights would probably actually dissuade other forces from getting involved, especially if it seems as though they'll just leave once the war is over.
Hardsoil, the new Rome: Hardsoil aggressively seeks to expand it's interests, viewing the war as an opportunity to be exploited. In this scenario, it really is trying to make key alliances now and play various other factions against each other, hoping in the end to come out on top with a strong grip on the area around it. Drac's methods would be used here; the aim would be to make sure all sides involved are severely weakened by the war and then to essentially take over the region around it. An alliance with the Xorn empire could be made, but we want to end up in a strong position where we hold more cards at the treaty table than them. Good... doesn't really factor into this. It's expansionism and will be perceived as such. If we take aggressive actions, I feel we have no choice but to follow up on them, or eventually the time will come when someone tries to get revenge and we won't be in a good spot to handle it. Ideally, the conflict would not endure forever.
Hardsoil, the new Bastion of Light: We go and get as many celestial allies as we can and park them in Hardsoil, collapse the portal to the magma plane, and then seek to take the fight to the evildoers! The Xorns would be put under control, the devils taken out of the equation, and hopefully we can weaken Nixale's power overall in general. Any sort of large-scale intervention is sure to drag in all sorts of other parties, and I suspect Kam and Adail couldn't easily back out of this if it happened (unlikely Knight and Mari, whom I suspect would leave as soon as it looked like this may take years.)
I very much want to discuss our options with Tam tomorrow.
I said it before, but.
We can toss out these options and give them to other people! We don't need to do it all ourselves, presuming Hardsoil has some interest in it's own affairs.
Team BELGIUM gets my vote. I thought we were more about setting the place up so that it's too much trouble for either side to take than in running a full-blown war ourselves anyway. Mari would indeed not have patience for something that kept her tied down for too long.
I'll pop into #e when I get home to roll K:P. It would be useful to know who actually runs Hardsoil and local environs when we go asking people to help it, after all.
Well, it's technically up to whoever's the boss of hardsoil.
Belgium gets my vote too though.
(we can of course just wash our hands of the whole thing, I mean our advice and offering to bring friends *might* not be accepted and then well we don't have to care, right?)
Yeah, I'm down with the Belgium option. So is Adail ic as well. Trying to make Hardsoil the New Bastion Of Light would...frankly endanger it's people far more then just trying to keep it neutral/alive during the conflict. Our goal here, as Adail understands it, is just making sure that Hardsoil doesn't get flattened in the conflict, and just let the Xorn and Ogremoch duke it out.
Quote from: El Cideon on March 16, 2010, 07:23:05 AM
Team BELGIUM gets my vote. I thought we were more about setting the place up so that it's too much trouble for either side to take than in running a full-blown war ourselves anyway. Mari would indeed not have patience for something that kept her tied down for too long.
I'll pop into #e when I get home to roll K:P. It would be useful to know who actually runs Hardsoil and local environs when we go asking people to help it, after all.
Cid: You can do this, but by the time you do it's about time for me to leave for work. I won't have a chance to deal with it until gametime, so if you guys are going to go see Granny Tam it may better to just do it as an infodump at the session start.
Guys, I'm thrilled you're interested in what's going on and debating courses of action! Could we just do it earlier in the week so I have more prep time? Thanks!
Seriously, I don't always do my prep late in the week or have time to adjust it. Maalox-fueled DMing ahoy!
General: We need to start these things sooner. I don't tend to think about them when my post session tasks include "Log, Stats, Feedback posts and discussion" and I only notice sunday night that 'hey we've had no discussion yet on what we're doing next?'. Simple fix: Separate feedback thread and start here on wednesday a 'What are we doing next? Resolve midweek stuff here' ;P
and a big apology to dune >_>;; oh well, as this is already written before I saw that...posting.
Team Belgium from the beginning was my notion on where to go, glad we're all agreed there, though routes there differ :) I guess my view differs as well. I view Hardsoil as a sizable settlement. One frontier style settlement. The notion of it being able to meaningfully hold sizable amounts of territory seems ridiculous to me. Expansionism also does. The notion that hardsoil could hold their own if either side truly decided they wanted it seems unlikely. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe they have a standing military. Maybe they're not as vulnerable as they seem and need to rely on passing adventurers.
I totally agree with rat's take that, in the absence of exterior forces, team Ogremoch will win solidly, if not by experience, then by alliances and treachery. That's entirely why I view the gameplan being "how do we strengthen the effectiveness of the other side while keeping hardsoil mostly neutral", because I can't see Ogremoch's guys not just claiming the territory if they're allowed to fight their way up successfully. Basically, I worry about the setup where Ogremoch and their allies mop up the xorn empire quickly. A difficult/not worthwhile target when there's another army nearby is easy prey when the army is not an issue anymore. So my thought is that the armies need to be so tired after it that they don't want to stay and loot whever they can.
My notion of partial alliance/overtures of friendship are largely on the concept that 'somebody is going to win eventually and since we want it to be side Xorn, let's establish early that we are our own side that they do not get to eat'.
In short:
A)Hardsoil must be uninviting to conquer.
B)The various powers must not be left having brought an army out to fight, victorious, and still hungry for more conquering.
at least that's how I see it. I'm down with any direction that gets us there. The whole bunch of stirring the kettle really is ideas based on achieving goal B, since I think right now we're heading down a road that goes:
A)We gather allies. No one stomps hardsoil initially.
B)Xorn and Ogremoch + crew fight. Xorn lose.
C)Ogremoch group now stomp hardsoil.
I'd much rather it be costly enough that nobody is in a good position to invade for a decade or so. Enough time to solidify a non-expansionist mindset.
There's no need for an apology about it, Drac. It's cool, but I want to make a point about it.
QuoteStratusburg: The antipathy is noted. It will really come down to this; is Stratusburg confident that no matter who wins on the other side of the portal, it won't affect them? If the Xorns do, it probably wouldn't, and if Hardsoil comes out on top, they're good. If Ogremoch comes out on top, then what is presently a mild antipathy between earth and air could become a full-blown hatred, depending on the disposition of Ogremoch's church.
Aside, I really think you overestimate even Ogremoch's interest in crossing the plane. I can't think that a power moving troops across planar boundaries is ever a small deal. As far as we have seen, the lions share of his followers are earth elementals. Going to the plane of air is unlikely to be their thing. Sure, a possibility, but I really think that Stratusberg comes out largely alright in all cases as cross planar conquering just isn't seeming painted as a particularly worthwhile option.
Phrased differently:
If ogremoch was the elemental prince of fire, would you expect his minions to go try and conquer territory in the water plane?
I do have a bad habit of waiting 'til Rat/Drac have said something to respond to, yes. I'm just gonna blame that on Mari being the most directionless PC in the group (as opposed to my own laziness, which is admittedly a viable explanation most of the time).
Hey, Team Belgium totally was my plan since session was over last week <_<
I don't expect Ogremoch to try conquering Stratusberg, but I can totally see him trying to make things harsher for the dudes on the other side via proxies and shutting down any hope of good relations for all concerned. The barriers to trade have been removed by us; propping up a new set would surely be against their interests.
The thing about actually getting proactive about involvement in the war is that if anyone finds out, they will not just sit around and let it happen. Team Belgium by necessity becomes Team Rome if Hardsoil starts playing the hardcore espionage card because I don't think you can really do that by half-measures. We couldn't just give the Xorns a little help; we'd need to make completely sure they win, and that would be an awful lot of work and require an awful lot of backstabbery and plotting. Apart from the fact that if Ogremoch finds out he probably won't leave Hardsoil alone anyway, there's also the fact that introducing chaos-spreading agents into the fray greatly increases the odds of the whole situation snowballing to new levels (and may very likely make Hardsoil a few entirely new enemies.)
I suppose that if we as independent agents try to just irritate Ogremoch into submission then he may not blame Hardsoil for it, but can we do that and simultaneously ensure Hardsoil actually is a tough nut to crack without giving it away? They've seen Adail; if they catch wind of any celestial allies showing up in Hardsoil, I have a feeling they'll guess who's responsible.
Basically, the big weakness with skullduggery on our side is that if/when people find out, any chance of claiming neutrality and hiding goes away. Since I don't think we can rely on success here, I think just hunkering down is the good option. If we can get around this (or just don't care)...
Another thing, btw, is that generally speaking it's easier to defend ground on this plane than take it, I mean it's made out of rocks. Okay, various parties can cheat and move through rocks, but it would make army management a real bitch, mark my words.
also, rome was a small village once!
Fun session. I had fun running the fight, which I'd have prepared for some time. I didn't imagine it would come quite yet, but oh well. At least you guys survived. What did you all think?
Adail, the arrow demon was going to FA you if it lived another round, the taunting got to it but it died first.
Kam, nicely done with that curse and Hatbot.
Nikkolai, nice to see you back! Hopefully it's permanent soon!
Mari, you survived. With your HP it's an achievement each session!
Knight, poison hates you. Conversely, possible SEIBA sword. We'll see.
FOr the portion I was conscious, I enjoyed. I'm sure we can find a way to shrink the sword down to Seiba size. We really should have a feedback thread :P
FOR NEXT SESSION,
Kam retains interest in going to arborea and getting uncursed so he stops seeing black squiggly lines over everything.
Fight was scary, arrow demon was a nasty customer. If they'd spawned a distance away from us I think things would've gone differently... or maybe not, since both me and Kam can close in two rounds, tops. Scry'n'die has it's weaknesses. As usual, I wasn't scared so much for myself as for others, but the poison threat was pretty bad.
I'm down with going to Arborea too. It's a new plane, new chance to find a sibling, etc. Since we can't really use the sword and lugging it around would be a pain, I think we might as well leave in it Hardsoil and/or sell it, unless we quickly find a way to shrink it or something.
Quote from: Dracos on March 17, 2010, 03:31:28 AMFOR NEXT SESSION,
Kam retains interest in going to arborea and getting uncursed so he stops seeing black squiggly lines over everything.
Up to you guys once you get back, assuming the trip back is without incident.
Quote from: Carthrat on March 17, 2010, 05:56:21 AM
Fight was scary, arrow demon was a nasty customer. If they'd spawned a distance away from us I think things would've gone differently... or maybe not, since both me and Kam can close in two rounds, tops. Scry'n'die has it's weaknesses. As usual, I wasn't scared so much for myself as for others, but the poison threat was pretty bad.
I'm down with going to Arborea too. It's a new plane, new chance to find a sibling, etc. Since we can't really use the sword and lugging it around would be a pain, I think we might as well leave in it Hardsoil and/or sell it, unless we quickly find a way to shrink it or something.
I analyzed the differences in my prep and 30 feet was about optimal. Longer doesn't matter much because most of the party is fast and the elemental needs to close in anyway. It was a pretty tough fight - if Mari had been targeted by the arrow demon I was afraid she'd get in a deep spot of trouble, but the battle didn't work out that way. The elemental was definitely the hard hitter and the biggest thread of the fight, though the arrow demon wasn't a chump.
Yeah, I concluded that the elemental couldn't be allowed to fight with anyone but me or knight. It's damage and to hit were too dangerous if it ever decided to swing at say Mari or Adail.
Quote from: Dracos on March 17, 2010, 01:54:19 PM
Yeah, I concluded that the elemental couldn't be allowed to fight with anyone but me or knight. It's damage and to hit were too dangerous if it ever decided to swing at say Mari or Adail.
Adail could handle it well enough with full AC whoring, but Mari was in a world of hurt if she got more attention from it. That blast-back property of the blade may have saved her life.
It sure ruined the demon's.
And yeah, go back to town and rest up before Arborea sounds like the plan given that most of us came out of the fight significantly wounded.
In the interest of closing this out early so dune gets to plan this week~:
Alright we plan to head back, rest/heal, head to Arborea. Because they are FINDABLE, we'll likely head toward the Knights first, probably the white knights, talk with them, and collect information if any powerful healy/divine types are in the area (Like Gwyn) to cut away Kamvakua's curse. If we clear that and have time left over, I'm glad for checking if there's a card there. Overall though, I think this isn't our big trip to arborea as we need to resolve the hardsoil situation before we can really freely adventure past it.
Missing anything? :P Everybody but Adail has chimed in.
Yeah, I'm bad about not chiming in on stuff. Anyway, that looks about right to me. The Knights should be easy enough to find. And even if nobody there can remove the curse, I'm sure someone will be able to give us an idea of who we do need to see about it. I'm sure some manner of curse removing quest will be in order, that's just how this stuff works. Maybe we can try and combine whatever that is with hunting for whichever Card wound up in Arborea once we get to do our real venture there.
Heh, I rushed us this week to help avoid solidly last week's end rush :)
I have to admit, I hope that:
A)THere is a card there.
B)We have some excuse for not getting it now.
Why? Because then we have an excuse for going back there instead of a directed 'We know that there isn't anything there for knight's quest?'
Next session is sort of blind, but I figure we set out on where we are, and then go find the white knights. If a random portal opens up to the court of stars, we take it :P
Kam hopes to get rid of his curse. I'm less sure of what else we are doing there at this point for Hardsoil aside from just gathering a few friends to see the place still standing.
We... were coming here explicitly to get some of your friends together and tell them hey there's a place than needs help.
then possibly going back with them, surely. Failing that, cardhunt continues.
In case you haven't heard, Zeph's officially back now. Yay.
You know you missed me. ^_^
Also I have Tentacles now. Tease me at your own peril!
While we're in Arborea, we should probably try to do something about that soul we've been lugging around, too. Every time I think about it, the temptation to trade it to someone for glorious riches increases.
Bad Rat! Even Mari wouldn't approve of that.
Yes, we should do something with it there if possible. I thought Celestia was more the place for it, though?
Any of the Upper Planes is suitable to redeem a soul. They're all good, it's a matter of the focus on law/chaos that divides them.
Adail will definately bring it up while there, yes.
Makes sense, I figured that was happening.
Quote from: El Cideon on March 28, 2010, 09:27:17 AM
Bad Rat! Even Mari wouldn't approve of that.
Feh, it's an evil soul! We should play soccer with it.
The highest form of victory for an alignment is not to kill others of the opposing alignments, but to convert them. Slaying an evil wizard sends his soul screaming into the Lower Planes, where he becomes a fiend and continues the endless cycle. Converting the wizard away from this path and towards redemption denies the Lower Planes everything and bolsters the Upper Planes instead.
Of course, this is by far the hardest thing to do. Redeeming a human or normal mortal creature is often difficult. Redeeming something like a drow or a red dragon borders on the impossible. Changing a fiend, well...you either won the lottery or you're meant for far higher things.
More practically, soccer on! It's -nice- to redeem evil but it's hard as fuck. There's nothing wrong with 'just' killing a dragon or a demon.
So, I wonder if anyone's up for random IC chatter some point between now and next session? Given that I wasn't here for today and there was a whole mess of stuff Mari should have a reaction to on the record.
Up to you guys. If I'm around I can have Yulia chat a bit but this is hardly required or even desired if you guys are handy.
Tough for me, though I could do it Saturday/sundayish around normal game time.
I will likely be around on weekend at... most... times.
Saturday night.
Normal game time.
Mari and Yulie will mud wrestle. There will be betting. Drunken mouse kungfu will be had.
It's a saturday, mouse will not be arond, drunken or otherwise. <_<
Yulia.
I'm down with this idea though. <_<
I'm planning on being out a good chunk of Saturday but the evening should be totally free. So yeah, works for me.
Except maybe the mud wrestling part.
But a small patch of mud is plenty for a pixie!
Alright, so Rat, Me, Cid, Ko, ?? are planning to show? Someone kick Nikki since he likely isn't in the board reading habit again.
Anyone who sees Zeph should feel free to kick him on this.
I can probably make it. Maybe.
No promises.
When on the weekend, by the way?
Excellent question
This is my DMly way of nudging you to organize and be pro-active! Do it! Go for it! Reach for the stars, the sun, the WORLD!
Drac suggested the normal time, which is fine by me.
7:30 pm, just as usual. I did not forget to state that :) Normal time.
Tonight or tomorrow at normal game time?
Tonight. :) Next time I'll use bold type ^_~
mmm, very drowsy day. Might not be at 100 percent tonight, though will be there.
Good session all.
I don't have much to say, most things stand on their own.
yarr... so moving ahead we're chasing Rogue across Arborea. We're coming to a compression point on quests as it seems there's a lot of impetus just to cut the hardsoil bit off. Or at least, enough of it that I'm having trouble spinning any goals on it since the resounding message seems to be "No, stop that, leave hardsoil". Maybe I have hearing problems :P
anyhow, I'd see a big goal on the next chain would be to re-expand the quest hook library. We have 'go after Rogue, Mari's gemstone, go to the lich finale' in there right now. Not really much in the way of choices. And Mari's gemstone is practically locked off, so that leads us on a straight line toward Rogue. Boring. But we're traveling, lots of things to encounter, we just had a cool one with the fairies. Rogue can be annoying and hard to find. We could have to go help some of the folks in the elven cities. We could find shattered friendships that were the leftovers of rogue to go deal with. We could have the standard go-to that a dragon decided to fly around and give someone trouble. It's all cool, but I'd like to see us grow that short term list back again so we have meaningful options that aren't 'finish Knight's quest as fast as we can' :)
It's more like I just felt like wandering on a new plane for a while before getting embroiled in city defense. I mean, we just got here, I want to look around! This is pretty much purely an OOC decision though, I have to admit, but I don't see anything wrong with taking a break to go exploring.
From an OOC perspective, I rather would like to get on off of hardsoil. From an IC perspective, I feel obligated.
I don't mean one person though, I mean both DM and as a team, it seems after that first session where we talked with tam about defense, that the overall direction has been 'not really your problem, stop involving yourself so much'. I dunno, it does bother me that our actions spun off a war (Cool, world reacts) but for the general sake of the campaign, there's a heavy push not to be stuck there at least a little bit as part of the cost of getting it going. eh
For my two cents I'm trying not to get involved in this. This is really up to you guys and the direction you're going in. I get the vibe that some of you feel that securing help has done much to absolve your responsibility to Hardsoil.
It's entirely IC for me to stop worrying about Hardsoil once someone tells me I don't have to anymore. Which is what Tam pretty much did (and shut down any commentary I could've made on tactics, which saddened me because I'd been thinking about it quite a bit!) Without impetus from other members of the party Knight just isn't going to think going back there is necessary. As she's said a billion times though she'll gladly help out with anything other people think is important, so.
I guess this is worth mentioning, but whenever we put something to a party vote, Knight is always going to pick the obvious option. She'll supersede her own desires to do other things! But whenever she's directly asked what she wants, well, no prizes for guessing second.
I feel that both Rogue (hell, cards in general, they reek of moral dillemas and strange setups and who-knows-what, no bias at all here, nope) and the lich offer ample opportunities for related sidequesting, really, never mind the default 'do good things' that you and Adail have going. Have some faith!
Overanalyzed. :P Let's go get rogue and have fun.
Let's act as we would IC. And IC, I would advocate chasing Rogue barring other events popping up.
Tonight is game night. Yaaaay.
Kam does not have a pegasus that can stand on one leg. ;_;
Why is there days between next session? :P I dunno :) hmm, I should probably stop tweaking board posts and go to work.
Decent session. A few points from the chat discussion that I'd like to elaborate on:
1. Confusion: I had the chase scene be disjointed like that on purpose to control information as Knight ran away. Did you think it was worth it?
2. Grapple. It really dragged everything down and was really suboptimal. It has a time and a place but I think we all want to avoid it for a good long while.
3. PvP: Yeah, that pretty much sucked. It wasn't helped by the grapple issues but it was a two hour block of general disinterest. If you guys wanna beat each other up, do a combat demo or something. I got largely negative opinions from this 'cept from Rat.
4. Rogue. There's a whole lot to say here, so I'm gonna ask: What do each of you think on reflection about the situation?
Addendum: As I mentioned to a few people, Rogue is a paladin of freedom. He was thus immune to Kam's intimidation since paladins are immune to fear! But, paladins of freedom lose that and gain another power in it's place. Whoops! He's not immune to fear, just as he's not immune to DM retardation!
Not my best session.
3) You nailed it well. I generally enjoy combat, but when the restriction is 'cannot hurt other person' well, it quickly becomes unfun in the system for me. The why of it is that I don't feel the system expresses non-fatal violence very well at all without being geared up for doing it. The majority of the rules that involve it really are quagmires or lists of penalties against everything that helps bring the combat to a close.
2)Man, Rat really drew out for me again a lot of what I had forgotten about how very bad the grapple rules end up being. I don't mind grapple existing but I now totally hate the rules on it and look forward to never rolling grapple again if I can avoid it.
1)I don't mind confusion. I was really bothered by how that chase scene went. It was a chase scene of a tremendously slower character in the woods. For Kam, this really should've been a scene to easily shine and be awesome in. He's totally at home with chasing and hunting things in the woods. He's fast, strong, swims well, jumps easily, climbs over anything in his way...yadda yadda... And I didn't roll poorly either, but it all felt irrelevant and incompetent. I mean it might be greedy as I did get to get to her first...but it was just was just barely and by that point I already felt like I was hardly managing to be competent at all at giving chase to someone on foot, something that Kam should excel at.
I really like it when things play toward thematic strengths or weakness, in general. It's why I thought the reward last session was particularly cool. This session felt like it really downplayed a thematic strength of kam in favor of having magical challenge.
4) We talked in the room and privately. I'll toss a reflect here later after it has time to digest.
Just a general bit, I know I was stepping on rat's toes there, but even if I wasn't taking a hostile angle, we're going to be doing the card talks often and I think it is unrealistic to expect the rest of the party to stand back each time and not participate in the debate. This isn't your one big arch nemesis (Well it might be). It's one of 25 others? Anyhow, given that, I really don't think its realistic to expect the whole group to go quiet for a big center stage bit there.
1/2/3: I have no problem with confusion like that; it's basically fog of war. It often seems odd to have everyone knowing what other people are doing when they're far away. It's way too easy to metagame it up, and even when people don't do that, it's honestly unsatisfying to have to pretend not to know things.
I don't have any problem with the grapple rules because I mostly know how they work. That said, I'm not exactly a big grapple fan either. I don't really care how often they appear. (I do hate one thing, which is how really huge monsters have grapple checks of like +40, that's no fun! Heroes escape from being clamped on by mighty jaws ALL THE TIME, or even hold them apart! But okay, that's not really relevant.)
But in this specific case there was quite a bit of lameness, I'd agree there. Partly my fault, I should've surrendered or asked for a timeskip but my inner troll felt noisy? Yeah, sorry.
PvP, well. I don't have anything really against stuff like dominate person or whatnot showing up and mindraping us into fighting our comrades. It's just another threat we have to deal with there. The more sensitive issue of PvP is having characters willfully oppose each other, which... is not on this game's agenda, I believe. HOWEVER I feel that if our characters disagree on things they need to hash them out and find a compromise, not just sweep it under the table. I also think dilemmas between us are, overall, interesting to play with.
Might as well get this in the clear- look, the party consists of at least two people with an agenda and dubious morals (knight, nikki) and two good-beyond-good types (kam, adail), conflict here is quite possible.
I will happily follow the goodly moral lead in most things and not run off to kick dogs or whatnot, and I'll take a harder path if the easier path is evil somehow on your guys say-so. I have two provisos!
1) I won't accept a plan that I think is certain to get us all killed because it's the 'good' thing to do when there's a much better one that's more dubious but more likely to be successful. It's a scale thing, basically.
2) If the good thing to do forces me to sabotage my own quest, or, worse, ignore it, except some angry IC arguments.
4: I really liked how Rogue was done. When I got mind controlled I was a bit disappointed since I thought it meant 'oh well, Rogue's an asshole and I guess this will make it easy to get him killed since I know he's bad'. It didn't really occur to me that he'd already know Knight's deal, and I can understand wanting to avoid wanting to return to the deck, which made it neat again. The challenge to me now is to develop arguments against it, of which I have a few I'll keep in reserve rather than spoiling them now. I don't think I'll need to introduce any further elements to do so; I'll try only to use what I've already established as fact. (So no, say, 'the deck will destroy the world unless completely reformed!' stuff out of nowhere, because that's lame.)
I did not expect other people to stand back in this or other debates; I'm not even all that fast a typist here, it's difficult to formulate a response because I, personally, am quite sympathetic to Rogue! So I'm not about to crack down on that. I mean I dunno where I'd have been without Nikki there either. Also, I feel that whatever happens, Knight is likely to come out of this much firmer in purpose- even if it's not her original one, so I think she'll be more blunt in debates in the future.
But I WILL get mad if people insist on shutting down the ability to actually talk this stuff out at all, and it felt like Kam was prepared to do that any second. It's not that I don't see your point though, it's very hard to trust someone capable of mindrape. I think it's an issue when mediation has some chance of success to keep tempers flaring. I think Rogue's rationale wasn't impossible to understand or anything, so.
We don't actually have to travel with Rogue to his master's place, btw. We can go separately and meet him there, if we're worried. I don't think we need to, but tossing it out there.
Re: Mind control. It's a valid tactic for sides to use on occasion, though in this case I felt it to be very unpleasant. I think it was worse in this case since it was out of battle and had a lot of potential to get outright long and messy. It's one t hing to be dominated and someone takes a turn to slap a dispel or a protection from evil on you, it's another for...that.
Re: Rogue talking. That wasn't me so much telling you to shut as Rogue not caring about the rest of the party at the moment. He came to bitch at Knight, not have an argument with everyone. After the first wave of bitching on both sides passed I felt he was more diplomatic, but I also think it's obvious he doesn't think much of Kam so far.
Re: Confusion - Don't really think it was nessesary to me? I think we're faily good enough RPers here not to metagame, but this wasn't the big deal of the session to me. What I don't like is that because it took us, as players, a moment to decide what to do after the trees came down, it seemed like it was assumed that our characters just stopped moving and let Knight pull further and further ahead. She flat out should not have been able to outrun Kam or even make it to the stream before him unless the stream was right on the other side of the tree. Kinda agreeing with Drac that Kam's mobility advantages(as well as Knight's mobility issues what with being in heavy armor and all) felt like they were swept under the rug for the sake of drama. That wouldn't normally bother me, except that it happened in the same session as attempts at massive rules lawyering to further hinder our progress.
Re: Grapple - It goes fairly smoothly when the parties involved have the rules damn near memorized, and also when it's people who are actually grapplers doing it. Needless to say it's not something I will ever be doing in this game, what with my nob-full BAB, lol strength and MINUS EIGHT SIZE MOD. I think the problem here wasn't so much grapple as needing to do subdual damage. I probably could have done more there, but frankly Adail beating Knight's AC is about as likely as her beating Adail's. Possible, but not too likely. And a whole lot less happens when I manage to land a hit.
Re: PVP - Frankly, I'm of the nearly exact opposite of Rat here. I don't like in-party conflict of basically any stripe, and especially when it turns to flat out rolling against the other PCs. This is expressly why Adail isn't a preachy type celestial and doesn't attempt to convert Mari or Knight(though in Knight's case it's more that he sees her as less mortal, more Outsider without a home. She IS the way she IS, there is no changing that. It's her nature, as determined by her birth. Same as any Outsider). Nikki he works on a bit due to the promise to the Valk way back when and the fact that Nik seems like he's more receptive to it.
However, as Rat just pointed out, there will be moral conflicts, and I won't pretend they aren't there. Just don't expect me to really enjoy the arguing.
Though on that note Rat, I will ask that you please knock it off with the whole "Noooo Good in the party is bad! Do not want!" jokes? They were funny the first couple of times, but it's been overused to the point that I can't tell if you're joking or serious anymore, so it's getting on my nerves.
Re: Rogue - No, I'm not advocating everyone shutting up and letting Knight do all the talking whenever a card comes up. This particular time though, it was very much His Goal and Her Goal being at direct odds and letting her take the lead in talking it out seemed like the best idea. Or at least having us all talk it out and not going "NO TALK! ONLY VIOLENCE!". That's a really annoying stance to take when everyone else is trying to settle it with talking. A favorite saying of mine here is that it takes everyone to avoid combat, but only one person to force it. I'm glad Kam didn't just decide "screw it, swinging", but the vibe was there the whole time and it was...well, probably wouldn't have annoyed me so much if I weren't already frankly pissed off from the first half of the session, to be honest.
Otherwise, no Adail doesn't trust him at all, but he does trust Morwel. And if she's put even some small stake into what he does, Adail wants to play this out a little further, and definately talk to her about it, instead of just smiting him upside the head. He really doubts she'll approve of his preemptive strike idea there, and especially the methods he used to do it(and if she does aprove, you will get to see the Queen of all Eladrin chewed out by an irate Musteval. That shit is not Good.), so he's thinking that she may well decide this is a mistake after hearing that. Sure, this is me trying to second guess an entity that's several orders of magnitude wiser then I am, but eh.
Definately like the idea of recruiting him to help against the lich bitch, though. I'm a bit sad, OOC, that this seems like it's going to come up sooner then I expected. I won't have Sacred Flames or really any cool stuff to help for the fight with. ;_;
Re: GM derping - Think this session holds the record for that so far. I'm impressed~
And now to hit post and see how many people I've managed to piss off with this one. Please remember folks, I'm never actively trying to be a jerk, I'm just bluntly honest to an extreme.
Quote
But I WILL get mad if people insist on shutting down the ability to actually talk this stuff out at all, and it felt like Kam was prepared to do that any second. It's not that I don't see your point though, it's very hard to trust someone capable of mindrape. I think it's an issue when mediation has some chance of success to keep tempers flaring. I think Rogue's rationale wasn't impossible to understand or anything, so.
Quite fair. Kam WAS prepared to do that at any second...but neither did he actually do it. Kam's an intimidation based character and when he sees threats to his friends or their ideas, sometimes he is going to posture quite threateningly about it. Generally, this should actually be successful more often than it seems to because he's a terrifying presence to have angry at you (especially while in rage mode), and it should be encouraging for folks to not WANT to accelerate going into a combat state. It more often produces the opposite though (Big scary guy, I'm going to argue angrily with him. Why am I arguing angrily with the big guy who looks ready to stab me? What was I thinking this would accomplish?). Just want to say, that bothers me a bit :( curious what ko thinks there.
I was, as I expressed to ko privately afterwards, disappointed with some of the choices with Rogue. I was looking forward very much with the intent of being sympathetic to Rogue's plight. Just like you, the mindrape put him solidly into the 'okay, he's someone to kill, not to listen to' range. I was having Kam offer pretty hard the 'apologize for doing something horrible FIRST' route as a way to show "hey, I'm fighting for my freedom and desperate"...but all he gave was "I'm right, it's fine, anything to preserve my freedom is totally okay". Kam isn't heartless, he heard what the guy was saying, but with Rogue responding with posturing to his demands for saying sorry it left little faith in his humanity as a character. This really surprised me with a character taking the diplomatic route because I'd expect him to defuse Kam's rage, not just fuel it by being angry right back. Kam's totally not a diplomat. He's a barbaric fellow with strong opinions on what's right and wrong. Expecting him to take a reconcilitory diplomatic take to keep things even is just not going to go well. When NPCs are also stoneheaded after doing evil actions, it really pushes toward a conflict setup.
I really think it can't be overstated how very many other options Rogue had in Kam's eyes to approach Knight. Even going with the assumption she was a horrible tyrant that would put him down by force, he could've casually waited in the safety of his allies or practically any group on the plane would've stood up to defend him if such an evil was coming his way and chose to attack first. There is no shortage of great powers in this plane that would casually had put us down and left us trapped until we explained why we were trying to kill or capture him. He could've opened with a duel, a debate, simply fled the plane entirely as he already demonstrate the ability to escape better than knight could easily follow. He could've just gone to baator quietly and that'd for the most part stick an almost unclimbable wall between him and knight. He could've done any number of approaches that didn't involve inciting betrayal and mindrape.
The end result is actually I think Kam's reflection on Rogue is far more extreme. What he's seen is Knight brashly arguing to convince them that Rogue is the very essence of betrayal and does it at every interval, something he somewhat brushed off earlier, intending to make his own decision on it when they met... Only to first see him incite betrayal in Knight against her party, then explicitly suggest anything is fair game for 'freedom', work very hard to convince knight to betray her own ideas and goals, and something else that I forgot. He's seen someone who is extremely dangerous to even listen to as he is not only a very skilled talker, but also has no compunctions against using all matters of magic to deceive and control. The notion of him going down to Baator is worrisome as no matter how much damage he does here, what he could cause if he was supplanted by devils would make this look like a stroll in the park. The notion of sending him after the lich is tempting... but he's betrayal incarnate. He's really dangerous. Knight was totally right earlier and can't even see it as she's under his deceptions already. Fighting a lich at all is a very dangerous proposition without having someone swap sides on you mid fight and conveniently take advantage of a lich being there to turn a dangerous encounter (Him vs all of us) into a pretty safe one (Him sniping us from behind while the lich and her soldiers has us pinned down). Traveling with him is simple foolhardiness. This is someone who has shown at least once that they can telepathically mind control at least one party member. Maybe they can for the others, maybe not. Kam doesn't know. He does know that the party doesn't all have mind protection stuff. He does know that people do need sleep and do separate to go to the bathroom. He doesn't want to have to worry that when nikkolai went to the bathroom, he got mind controlled to believe whatever Rogue wants. He doesn't know what limits Rogue has, but he's already seen the most knowledgeable person about him taken in twice in short order without any apparent effort on Rogue's part. He doesn't want to be anywhere near this guy without good protections.
Kam would like to haul the rest of the party aside without him there to discuss this and solidly voice this opinion. For the most balanced take, I am fine with us heading toward his patron (without him) and that can be tossed out as a plan, but Kam would almost assume at this point if Detect Evil returned Negative (which it will apparently) that it is simply part of his deceptions.
~~~
Actually, an interesting thing. By the rules, Rogue should've just lost all of his paladin of freedom abilities. Sure he may be chaotic good if I detected on him (which I was about to say I'd do as something to at least help quiet Kam's worries a bit), but that was a very explicit violation of the individual liberty requirement of the class. I suppose he's really a magical fake paladin of freedom who can do whatever he wants :P
Code of Conduct: A paladin of freedom must be of chaotic good alignment and loses all class abilities if he ever willingly commits an evil act. Additionally, a paladin of freedom's code requires that he respect individual liberty, help those in need (provided they do not use the help for lawful or evil ends), and punish those who threaten or curtail personal liberty.
Quote from: Gatewalker on April 21, 2010, 02:56:50 PM
Re: Confusion - Don't really think it was nessesary to me? I think we're faily good enough RPers here not to metagame, but this wasn't the big deal of the session to me. What I don't like is that because it took us, as players, a moment to decide what to do after the trees came down, it seemed like it was assumed that our characters just stopped moving and let Knight pull further and further ahead. She flat out should not have been able to outrun Kam or even make it to the stream before him unless the stream was right on the other side of the tree. Kinda agreeing with Drac that Kam's mobility advantages(as well as Knight's mobility issues what with being in heavy armor and all) felt like they were swept under the rug for the sake of drama. That wouldn't normally bother me, except that it happened in the same session as attempts at massive rules lawyering to further hinder our progress.
Yeah. The main problem I had was that it was broken up and confusing, so I was kinda running it by ear and communication was very poor as a result. I was telling Rat one thing in PM and others in #dunes and it wasn't really balancing out very well. The concept of it wasn't bad, but the execution on my part was downright rotten. Better coordination would have helped, what I should have done is called init right away to streamline things.
QuoteRe: PVP - Frankly, I'm of the nearly exact opposite of Rat here. I don't like in-party conflict of basically any stripe, and especially when it turns to flat out rolling against the other PCs. This is expressly why Adail isn't a preachy type celestial and doesn't attempt to convert Mari or Knight(though in Knight's case it's more that he sees her as less mortal, more Outsider without a home. She IS the way she IS, there is no changing that. It's her nature, as determined by her birth. Same as any Outsider). Nikki he works on a bit due to the promise to the Valk way back when and the fact that Nik seems like he's more receptive to it.
However, as Rat just pointed out, there will be moral conflicts, and I won't pretend they aren't there. Just don't expect me to really enjoy the arguing.
I agree with actual conflict, though my definition of it is a bit loose. Arguing reasonably over something like Rogue? This is interesting and lets out chances for outstanding role play. There's some really good moral and ethical dilemmas here, ones I hope we can handle like adults all around. No, this isn't a cloaked 'you're doing it wrong!', just saying.
QuoteDefinately like the idea of recruiting him to help against the lich bitch, though. I'm a bit sad, OOC, that this seems like it's going to come up sooner then I expected. I won't have Sacred Flames or really any cool stuff to help for the fight with. ;_;
Agreed mostly. I like that you took two disparate things and used them together to solve a potential problem. It's really good RP and problem solving, as well as opening up a new path to work with. It helps things feel like it's your guy's journey, not a path on DM rails. The idea of this happening occurred to me a little before Nikkolai ran with that idea; I'm impressed nonetheless.
QuoteActually, an interesting thing. By the rules, Rogue should've just lost all of his paladin of freedom abilities. Sure he may be chaotic good if I detected on him (which I was about to say I'd do as something to at least help quiet Kam's worries a bit), but that was a very explicit violation of the individual liberty requirement of the class. I suppose he's really a magical fake paladin of freedom who can do whatever he wants :P
Code of Conduct: A paladin of freedom must be of chaotic good alignment and loses all class abilities if he ever willingly commits an evil act. Additionally, a paladin of freedom's code requires that he respect individual liberty, help those in need (provided they do not use the help for lawful or evil ends), and punish those who threaten or curtail personal liberty.
I tend to give paladin and paladin types a lot of the benefit of the doubt regarding Code related issues. It is a borderline case at best and it's an interesting shading of what he is as a Card vs what he's trying to be as a paladin of freedom. This wasn't a randomly done act without thinking it through. <_<
Oh, yeah, arguing over something like Rogue is fine. It's more the conflicts of stuff like "hey, heal this guy so we can interrogate him then kill him." "Um, no." that came up in an earlier session and such that irritate me.
Blunt is fine :P
QuoteOtherwise, no Adail doesn't trust him at all, but he does trust Morwel. And if she's put even some small stake into what he does, Adail wants to play this out a little further, and definately talk to her about it, instead of just smiting him upside the head. He really doubts she'll approve of his preemptive strike idea there, and especially the methods he used to do it(and if she does aprove, you will get to see the Queen of all Eladrin chewed out by an irate Musteval. That shit is not Good.), so he's thinking that she may well decide this is a mistake after hearing that. Sure, this is me trying to second guess an entity that's several orders of magnitude wiser then I am, but eh.
I agree here that one of the weirder sides of this is Morwel directly interacting with and sponsoring someone who was so willing to use methods like that. I suppose greater powers make mistakes too, but it just seems very odd. I was much expecting someone who was solidly good and provided a moral dilemma through that as we are both Good...but have diametrically opposed objectives. What I found was someone who I'd have trouble believing is good, even though I'm able to detect that he's not evil with just a glance.
Hmm. The stories of earlier of him 'freeing false friends' gain a whole new level of creepy in context of last session. It says that he's done this crap before successfully rather than failing.
I'm betting the issue is that while he was around Morwel, she didn't see any of that. Just his own desires for freedom. And I'm betting that yes, the personification of betrayal in human form can in fact pull the wool over the eyes of even a planar power without overly trying. Remember, no amount of power or protections can stop you from getting betrayed by someone if you draw the Rogue. This is getting into the realm of metagaming though, so I'll stop now.
btw, OOC I think the Nikki using Rogue to attack his lich is super cool. The above is mostly from the IC Kam angle on it.
Mmm, should wait for the others to ring in, but right now it looks like we'll either be starting next session heading toward Morwel (which is actually only at her behest since she doesn't live somewhere you can walk or travel to) or with a party pow-wow on it? Assuming it'd be good to get the latter done with...do folks want to try and meet to have the pow-wow side of things done in a side session so we can move on? Or way too aggressive pacing? :)
I figure you guys need to have a private talk IC to hash this all out. Extra sessions for most of us don't work that well, though, so it'll probably be the start of next session.
Silly Jokes below.
What I expected:
(http://www.blogcdn.com/www.wow.com/media/2008/09/zach_paladin_changes_graccus.jpg)
What I got:
(http://shrines.rpgclassics.com/pc/planescape/images/characters/trias.jpg)
>_> I'm on the internet too much.
Quote from: Dracos on April 21, 2010, 03:47:55 PMI agree here that one of the weirder sides of this is Morwel directly interacting with and sponsoring someone who was so willing to use methods like that.
Unless it's not really Morwel he's been talking to.[/loony conspiracy theory mode]
(Gate is probably right though, he's just good enough at conning people to fool even her.)
Anyway, most of the major stuff's been said by this point: grappling = bad, derpage = epic, etcetera. I don't object to mind control in general terms. It's something greater powers regularly use to screw people over, the planes are harsh and bad shit like that happens to mere mortals, yada yada yada. It's more the quagmire of rules that it led us into this time that was the problem. Outside of climbing on Bel (who might not have cooperated anyway?) there was really no way Knight could have escaped anyway. Re: in-party conflict, I don't expect us to agree all the time. If it leads to interesting discussion, ultimately I don't mind that much. If it leads to ninety minutes of grappling and nonlethal whiffage, I do.
Mari is pretty much in the same mindset as Kam here. Someone she totally could've hung out with put himself squarely in the untrustworthy camp by immediately mindraping someone. The hypocrisy of
forcing freedom on someone was apparently lost in the shuffle, so Mari will just have to bitch at him about the stupidity of that next time he gets on his high horse. Splitting up and heading to Morwel separately sounds like the smart thing to do, but I kinda doubt it's gonna happen since Knight's probably not going to want to let him out of her sight.
Wouldn't mind the chance to have some IC discussion about this before next Tuesday, but extra sessions are pretty much impossible to schedule and actually get everyone there.
QuoteThe hypocrisy of forcing freedom on someone
I've used this kind of argument against CG zealots in games before. It's a good one, but always seems to spur them to violence against me.
Also splitting up and getting there may not be an option. As Drac said, she kinda lives somewhere that you can't just walk to, and I presume if she is his patron she's given him some way to contact her/get back there himself. We may need him to get us there.
Hrn. My alternative to running was 'stand and fight!' there, honestly. We could've had a shouting match, which I think would've ended that way, too. Apologies for double standards on rules, though. I was kinda out of line.
gtg will post more when I get home.
Oh yeah, I remembered what it was, mmm, maybe, maybe it was something else.
Anyhow, the others he's betraying is his family. He's going to Baator. Not to...say, meet up with the rest of his siblings and release them from their fates. If he's well enough informed to know about knight, there's no reason he wouldn't be well enough informed to know of the sometimes dire straights his family is in. Sure, he's fine but the rest of them are likely to die in terrible pain followed being blasted out of existence, directly caused by his decision to not rejoin the set. He knows a way to make this not happen but he's not seeing that as important at all. As long as he lives, everyone else in his family can die.
I don't think Rogue falls squarely in the HORRIBAD camp for his actions, questionable as though they may be. It was not the wisest or best decision, perhaps, but let's remember two things- he's not used to interacting in this world, and he had reason to suspect I was some ruthless tyrant who'd never stop pursuing him. Given that I find it forgivable that he'd try and ruin me instead of just flee. I mean, maybe he IS thinking about the other siblings. Maybe he thinks we'd all be better free! Then maybe he wants to stop me from getting to them, too. The fact that he turned up to talk at all would indicate that he is genuine on some level. If he was trying to manipulate us somehow, it seems odd for him to be so up-front about what he wants.
Basically, it seems he's being thoughtless, perhaps, but not truly malicious. And his argument has some good points that aren't entirely eroded by his earlier actions.
However, I don't like his argument and want to defeat it- better yet, I want to make him agree with me! This is more satisfying, methinks, that just beating him to a pulp and forcibly absorbing him, which has certain uncomfortable overtones. I think I have a good chance of doing this and have thought up several arguments I think are compelling- though it's nigh-impossible to come to an agreement under a hostile setting. Thus, I think going to Morwell and discussing it there is a good idea. She's the patron, sort of, of you guys- I don't think she'd be overly biased in either direction. Just my guess. I feel the result of such discussion will involve one side capitulating, or some temporary agreement being reached to postpone a binding decision.
All of that is moot if Rogue is actually just screwing with us! Maybe he'll teleport us to Baator. Maybe he's pulling the hood over Arborean powers- something I find as unlikely as me beating said powers in a duel. I don't think he hates us that much. I'd like to take that chance and see how it goes for now. So, I want us to go to Morwell- I don't really mind the means- and argue it out there. If he really does prove to be entirely selfish, and not just thoughtless as I suspect, I'll have no qualms about taking him by force at that point.
So now that I'm done talking about me and being all self-absorbed, I'd like to know what the rest of you actually want to do here. I'm open to other suggestions! Except 'do nothing', and whilst I could be persuaded, I don't really want to just sneak-attack-kill him; for one, he can probably escape and it'll be a real bitch to catch him- for two, it'd make me feel a bit bad IC, and for three, it seems to skip an interesting problem.
As an aside, I have a general feeling that I'm kinda becoming "That Guy" in this game. Didn't realise my alignment-related asides were that irritating, so I'll try and keep it relevant from now on.
Quote from: Carthrat on April 22, 2010, 05:07:16 AM
I'm open to other suggestions! Except 'do nothing', and whilst I could be persuaded, I don't really want to just sneak-attack-kill him; for one, he can probably escape and it'll be a real bitch to catch him-
This. If he can 'port out at will then taking him by force might not even be possible (barring ridiculous luck on our first strike). Talking things over at Morwel's works for me.
Haven't had any problems with Knight morality, but Mari isn't really judgemental about that sort of thing.
BTW, I haven't forgotten what I said about him before- that it's his nature to betray. I argued this fairly strenuously before, but two factors have led to me changing my mind.
First, there's the talks that was had a couple sessions back, where people (re: Yulia, the Knight-Captain) felt compelled to argue for his benefit. Can't say they didn't affect me a bit.
Second, I'll repeat how he conducted himself on returning to me; he's made it quite clear he opposed returning to the deck. It seems, well, honest. It's not really a lead-in to a further betrayal when, as was said, he can just run away.
Hey Dune, to speed something along: If we ask him his patron's name, who would he respond with? He's never referred to Morwel by name, but as the lady of the lake?
That's not a title I've heard her referred to. She's the Queen of the Stars, Ruler of the Court of Stars. She has nothing to do with lakes.
Huh. Good question! I think I was assigning 'morwel' as his patron's name because of what the general mentioned before, but that slipped me by.
You guys can make K:P checks here in reference to that. Post 'em if you care to.
COulda sworn she wasn mentioned by name by someone...*checks*
Ah, Gracelyn said it was the Court of the Stars, and that surely Morwel or another powerful eladrin gave him what he sought. That's why I was thinking it was her.
<Mari> roll 1d20+13 K:P, lady of the lakes, do I know who this is or do I think it's just a type of butter?
* Hatbot --> "Mari rolls 1d20+13 K:P, lady of the lakes, do I know who this is or do I think it's just a type of butter? and gets 18."12 [1d20=5]
I'm sure this will help us a lot, right guys?
Hey batter batter, hey batter batter SWING!
Oh, it's a swing and a miss! Mari waited too long and Hatbot rewarded her with a 5! Brutal! That's out number one in the bottom of the inning. Will the next batter make contact or strike out?
dunefar: +6?
Oka.
Okay.
Philip: so I have little chance of beating Mari's 18 roll.
dunefar: > roll 1d20+6
* Hatbot --> "Xorned rolls 1d20+6 and gets 23." [1d20=17]
Post that?
Philip: hah
Kamvakua's up to the plate, oh and he takes a mighty swing! Contact! It's a high fly ball, deep and going back. Back, back, back at the wall...it's off the wall! Kamvakua's going around second! He's in there with a stand up double!
The Lady of the Lake is an alternate title for Queen Morwel. She has a lot of honorifics as the Queen of the Eladrin, though Kam doesn't know the details there.
(Others can roll if they want to as well to uncover more info.)
So I guess it is queen Morwel. Oh well.
> I should probably roll as well, I suppose
<Xorned> Back.
<Xorned> Go for it.
> roll 1d20+9 kitchen patrol
* Hatbot --> "Gatewalker rolls 1d20+9 kitchen patrol and gets 12." [1d20=3]
> adail is not very good at K:P duty
<Xorned> Ouch. Post it.
Here comes the pitch, it's a blazing fastball! Adail swings and makes contact...it's a high, lazy popup...and it's caught by Rogue. Two outs. Next up to bat is Nikkolai, can he drive the run home?
(Whiff.)
My, my. There has been some serious discussion in my absence and I'm rather sorry to have missed it.
Well, I'll toss in my two cents, for what little it's worth.
To be honest, I feel that I have to agree with Kam on the chase scene as far as actually chasing after Knight went. It really made no sense that she should get so far ahead of us, especially with Kam's WTFMEGAPWN speed and roving.
As for the confusion...it really made for a disjointed first half of a session, in my opinion. As Gate noted, I feel that we're decent enough gamers that we can refrain from indulging in our desire to metagame (even if it's an unconscious desire). So while the confusion actually served its purpose to well, confuse us, I don't think it was needed.
The PvP was a pain in the ass. I'm sorry, it was. I don't like it nor do I ever wish to engage in it again, simply because it's damned difficult to subdue a PC without killing them, which needlessly drags out the session. Our time could have been spent doing something more productive. I won't comment on the grapple rules mainly because as relatively newbie player, I don't have a good grasp of them. I'm beginning to think that I'm just going to keep rolling caster classes to prevent myself from actually having to deal with them.
Rogue...ye gods, I'm not even sure how to comment on him from Nikki's perspective. I'll give it a stab.
Nik has been trying to metamorphose into a better person. Well, not better, but perhaps a more fully functioning psychopath. Occasionally, he still has his setbacks, as you all have seen in the dream-reward session. Nik's attitude there was mostly an attempt on his part to control his fear and pain at the memories that his time spend at the Lich's dwelling inflicted on him. Don't mistake Nik's gradually lightening nature as weakness or even a desire to become "good". He's merely decided that friends can be an asset and not a weakness. He will still do everything in his power to keep them safe and alive, but everyone else can pretty much go to hell.
I feel that this explains Nik's quicksilver mentality when he first met Rogue. To be perfectly honest, he doesn't give a damn about the moral quandry surround Rogue or his desire for personal freedom. He merely recalled Knight's desire to reunite the deck and responded accordingly, at first, with the threat of violence if Rogue did not comply with Knight's wishes. The fact that Rogue meddled with Knight's head probably also contributed towards his vicious manner.
But when he heard Rogue's declaration against slavery in general, his self-preservation instincts kicked into overdrive. He did an immediate about face and became the reasonable diplomat. I'm surprised that Rogue bought it so easily, even with my Diplo-Tanks skills. His thoughts are to use Rogue as best as he can and then, one way or another, reunite him with Knight or however she wishes to deal with the situation.
While I'm pushing for a confrontation with the Lich (admittedly, it's rather selfish of me) I'm afraid that she really might be more than we can handle, unless I can somehow secure a few more allies with a little more power besides a middle class Fey Lord and a single Card. On the other hand, I'm eagerly looking forward to the battle. I've got a grand speech written in my head and everything. I've even written down a few witty one-liners.
To conclude, the session overall was rather meh. The GM derpage was partly my fault as well. How did I not know the powers of my own familiar? Way to fail, Nik.
22:27 +Hatbot › --> "Zephyrus rolls 1d20+10 Do I know anything about the Lake Queen Chick? and gets 22." [1d20=12]
Nikkolai's at the plate! A pitch and...strike 1! Another pitch...strike 2! 0-2, 2 outs! Can he do it? The money pitch...a swing...oh, he made contact! It's a shot into left-center field...the center fielder is running and making a dive at it...oh, he can't quite get there in time, it's going back to warning track! That's an easy double for Nikkolai and Kamvakua's driven in!
Queen Morwel has strong ties to the Seelie Court, who have bestowed on her the title of 'Lady of the Lake.'.
(OOC: I figured you played off Kam's knowledge, which was enough to help you uncover more information. Basically building off each other here.)
So I mentioned a few ideas on how to properly use Lord Balinbomb once we found out who the Lake Lady is.
22:47 Zephyrus • I was thinking of using him several ways:
22:47 Zephyrus • 1: A distraction
22:47 MagicalGirlSierra • Being tied to a coalition of good fey doesn't mean he won't get cranky when some punk kid blunders into his realm and insults him.
22:47 @Kotono • (Fey politics are a bit on the complex side and more complex than I care to get into, but basically.)
22:47 Zephyrus • 2: A way to steal the kid from the Lich for us
22:48 Zephyrus • 3: I was thinking of exchanging myself for the kid, then having Balinbomb port me out of there.
22:48 Zephyrus • Or 4: Have Balinbomb introduce me to some heavy firepower Seelie
Comments? Suggestions?
Also, I can now give out a little info on the Lich, the phylactery, and Nik's hometown. Let me know how you want me to answer, either IC or OOC.
Before we can really plan anything well there are a few things we need to identify. Well, we can hardly know everything, but this is what I'd be looking at finding out if possible.
1) How personally powerful is the lich, roughly? What kind of magic does she use?
2) Does she have any weaknesses apart from those common to the undead condition?
3) Where is she, and what's that area like? Does she have a fixed, secure abode? What kind of defenses does she have there?
4) What's she actually doing, lately? Does she have plans we can interfere with, or is she sort of just loitering around waiting for heroes to gank her?
5) Who are her allies? How powerful are they? How loyal are they; why do they work with her?
6) Who are her enemies? How powerful are they? Why do they hate her; why haven't they done anything yet?
7) What are our existing allies willing and able to contribute to this? Angel cavalry? Blessings? Healing potions? The casting of useful spells?
Not IC and all...but I'll be pretty sad if we left an overcomplicated war scenario for being something we didn't want to focus on to ENTER an overcomplicated war scenario. I suppose few steps have been taken there but when I'm seeing calling in Seelie, gathering up allies, pulling in angel cavalry...well, it's really starting to feel like just the thing we left in hardsoil. I'll think IC later, but really just tossing that out there.
Quote from: Carthrat on April 24, 2010, 01:56:31 AM
Before we can really plan anything well there are a few things we need to identify. Well, we can hardly know everything, but this is what I'd be looking at finding out if possible.
1) How personally powerful is the lich, roughly? What kind of magic does she use?
From what Nikk can tell, she's pretty damn tough. There's no fixed area she excels at, from what he can tell. He's seen her teleport miles in an instant. She can use fire and ice spells to deadly effect. She's quite good at summoning (Which is where Nik gained an affinity for it, I think), and is capable of banishing creatures even if they're not on the same plane with her. Scary.
2) Does she have any weaknesses apart from those common to the undead condition?
Perhaps only the phylactery, but other than that, Nik doesn't know of anything.
3) Where is she, and what's that area like? Does she have a fixed, secure abode? What kind of defenses does she have there?
The city where she and I lived was called Amlyn. It was a rather prosperous duchy in a feudal styled kingdom. That makes since indeed when you note that Nik *is* capable is capable of using flowery court speech when the occasion warrants it. When Nik was under her thrall, they lived in Verzweiflung, a secluded abode with deep basements beneath a mansion. Of course, he burnt that down on his way out of town, so where she actually is now is something that we'd need to find out. I can give more details on Amlyn if needed.
4) What's she actually doing, lately? Does she have plans we can interfere with, or is she sort of just loitering around waiting for heroes to gank her?
Dunno.
5) Who are her allies? How powerful are they? How loyal are they; why do they work with her?
On this, Nik can only speculate. He's seen her host everything from Drow to undead at one time or another. He's even seen devils and demons both, as well as more horrible creatures like the Yugoloth and others that he has no name for. He knows from experience that the Lady is a master negotiator and very adept at maneuvering people into saying and doing precisely what she wants them to. Her allies could be willing or not so willing. Who knows?
6) Who are her enemies? How powerful are they? Why do they hate her; why haven't they done anything yet?
Dunno. The only enemy Nik knows of is Nik himself at the moment. And he's been too damn scared to even think of doing anything for the last year or so.
7) What are our existing allies willing and able to contribute to this? Angel cavalry? Blessings? Healing potions? The casting of useful spells?
So far we have on our side:
*One Fey Lord - abilities and contributions unknown
*One Card (Rogue) - Abilities and alliance unknown
As for Drac's observation...that's all well and good, but do you really want to face a Lich *without* allies at our side? Feel free to go charging in by yourself and get hexxed. Nikk has no problem using many, many allies to help him out. >_>
I totally don't mind us getting allies for a lich fight. Allies yes, armies, squadrons, groups of ten, etc, not so much. D&D isn't a system where numbers tend to matter, just usually being on the same raw power level or close or you get stomped easily. I like that the game mostly has focused on us doing things rather than us having people do things for us. In that line, I'd rather go with lines of strategy where we figure out how to make it happen with ourselves, not how we make someone else take her out. It'd be pretty lame to finish your archrival by parking a squad of celestials at her front door. narratively speaking.
What does banish someone not on the same plane mean? Isn't that just banning entry?
22:13 Kotono • A lich can make a new plyactery if one is destroyed, but they have no way of knowing if it is or not. This tends to be compounded by the fact that liches treat their plyactheries with warding magic, which makes their own attempts to track it down often difficult. To destroy her you'll need to destroy her physical body then her plyachtery within a week or she'll reform.
Good to know! And, seconding everything Drac just said. We already made one recruitment drive. This feels like something we should take care of ourselves.
I want to do what it takes to win. If we can do it ourselves, sure ok let's go. If allies are there for the recruiting, I'm for doing that. I don't mean to go on some big recruitment drive and pull giant armies up, but I have no compunction against asking various people for help if they're there to be asked (see: goodly planar lords of vast power and resources; other people the lich has hurt in the past).
To clarify here btw, yeah, I do prefer when we're integral to dealing with shit. I'm not really expecting angel cavalry (although I wouldn't say no), but anything that might help us. For instance, we know she can teleport, and there's no point fighting her if she can easily run away, so something to counteract that would be nice. And so on.
Query: Are you guys going to want to start right where you left off, or that night when you guys can talk amid yourselves or...?
That night I think.
Also, um... This has come up twice. As a Knight of the Stars, how DOES Kam get back into the court when needed? I was previously playing it as something that just happened when it needed to (Playing up the Mythological angle of it, you don't find the court of stars, it finds you), but it sorta seems like it should be knowledge he has as we're not taking a mythological angle on it but active random folks getting to walk in and out of it.
OOC, basically, I don't want the only options to be here 'Go with him' or 'wander aimlessly while he easily gates right back in, hoping to stumble across a portal'. I did the latter before for the myth angle but it seems out of context with what the NPCs are doing.
Quote from: Dracos on April 26, 2010, 04:00:18 PM
That night I think.
Also, um... This has come up twice. As a Knight of the Stars, how DOES Kam get back into the court when needed? I was previously playing it as something that just happened when it needed to (Playing up the Mythological angle of it, you don't find the court of stars, it finds you), but it sorta seems like it should be knowledge he has as we're not taking a mythological angle on it but active random folks getting to walk in and out of it.
OOC, basically, I don't want the only options to be here 'Go with him' or 'wander aimlessly while he easily gates right back in, hoping to stumble across a portal'. I did the latter before for the myth angle but it seems out of context with what the NPCs are doing.
The nature of the Court of the Stars is that you find your way to it when you need it. Assuming you need it, Kam would know the way will reveal itself in the soft nights of Arborea. It's very much a faith thing.
Honestly, I do not mind either way. More talking is fine.
While in the Court of the Stars:
You have a week to kill here. What you can do follows, though it's far from everything. Feel free to ask for things that interest you - for example, I imagine Nikkolai will seek out magical knowledge or training. Most of this doesn't apply to Mari since she's spoken for.
- You can feast, make merry and generally have fun. If you don't really want to do anything but kill time this is fine.
- You can practice with the various eladrin knights.
- You can take in and indulge in eladrin art and culture in this fairy-tale realm.
- You can buy any non evil or non lawful magic item at standard prices, as well as sell any items. Purchased items still require my approval.
- You can seek guidance from the eladrin on how you life your lives and improve yourselves towards Chaotic Good.
Mari is busy for all of those, save for shopping for a mix of gameplay and practical reasons. Assume that whatever happens to her allows for enough discretion to do any upkeep shopping she needs. Some of you may require side sessions during the week, Mari will for certain. Some of you may want to take some time to chat as well(I think Nikkolai and Adail have an overdue chat coming too?) amid yourselves, feel free.
What all will you be doing, guys?
Nikk has three main goals:
1. Talking Balinbomb into fetching the Phylactery.
2. Learning what magic he can from what denizens of the realm that he can.
3. Maybe getting a little hax for his fight with the Lich?
Mari's training montage could be scheduled for sometime over the weekend, perhaps? Doesn't really matter to me when since my other weekend games aren't running this time around.
-I must speak with Rogue in private sometime. I'm rather ambivalent on him presently. Since it's in private I might have the other Cards speak as well.
-I'd like to do some private research on Baator.
-I'd like to speak with Gwynharwyf as well; I'd prefer to do so in private, but I can easily accompany Kam to a training session and talk to him there.
-Mmm, I might speak with Nikkolai whilst we're here sometime.
-As for training itself, I assume Knight does that all the time. I don't think it needs a scene to cover it explicitly, unless something INTERESTING happens. When it comes to her speciality I assume she can hold her own, so jousts and brutal slugfests are where it's at for her.
Oh, and list what days an times you can be around coming up, so I can better schedule.
Training hard with Lady Gwynharwyf would be my highest priority, focusing on learning from her or her other knights anything and everything about taking on dragons or liches. Prolly ask her privately if she has any idea where Nikkolai dropped her phylactry since that's a standing important plot point. I suspect since I've been here before and will be here again that living it up here at the moment really isn't high on kam's priorities. He's got a huge mountain ahead and he means to climb it and live through it with his whole team intact. If that means he has to figure out ways to go farther so Mari or Nikkolai doesn't get killed, we'll, he'll try not to get killed himself doing so this time :P Glad to do a side session on this, possibly with knight, though getting my ass kicked repeatedly probably won't take long :P
Mari unleashed a pretty neat hook. :) So cute. :P
I rather appreciated that background element favoring Kam over Rogue and my fears on that being ungrounded. Sorry for doubtin' Dune.
uh...um. schedulin' hard. around late, usually. if something is happening, around reliably by normal session time usually. Saying when beforehand hard.
There's 14 hours difference between us, remember.
All of my Saturday, from 9am-2am the following Sunday works for me, basically. I think you're usually around then? (so, your friday night or sat morning is very likely fine.)
1. Adail wants to talk to Rogue a bit, largely giving him the "So You Want To Be A Hero?" rundown from someone a bit more his level instead of a Power. I'd actually prefer to cover that with me typing up a post or PM of Teach Me Adail Sensei, as you know how much of a pain doing extra sessions is for me. Especially as I have Persona stuff coming up as well.
2. Uh, Adail was gonna help Nik try and clean up his act to snag the moon maiden, but I forgot what specific advice I had in mind though.
3. Yeah, Adail is big on training. Will definately put some hours into that if he can round up any local fist fighters to spar with.
4. The armor is getting a bit annoying to carry around. If I try and sell/trade that here, what might I be able to get for it?
Quote from: Zephyrus on April 28, 2010, 02:56:20 AM
Nikk has three main goals:
1. Talking Balinbomb into fetching the Phylactery.
2. Learning what magic he can from what denizens of the realm that he can.
3. Maybe getting a little hax for his fight with the Lich?
1 should be IC, others can be depending on how that goes. What days work good for you coming up?
Quote from: El Cideon on April 28, 2010, 02:57:08 AM
Mari's training montage could be scheduled for sometime over the weekend, perhaps? Doesn't really matter to me when since my other weekend games aren't running this time around.
Saturday morning or Sunday morning sound good to you?
Quote from: Carthrat on April 28, 2010, 02:59:27 AM
-I must speak with Rogue in private sometime. I'm rather ambivalent on him presently. Since it's in private I might have the other Cards speak as well.
-I'd like to do some private research on Baator.
-I'd like to speak with Gwynharwyf as well; I'd prefer to do so in private, but I can easily accompany Kam to a training session and talk to him there.
-Mmm, I might speak with Nikkolai whilst we're here sometime.
-As for training itself, I assume Knight does that all the time. I don't think it needs a scene to cover it explicitly, unless something INTERESTING happens. When it comes to her speciality I assume she can hold her own, so jousts and brutal slugfests are where it's at for her.
Talking to Rogue is obviously IC, as is talking to others. The research can be done OOC, what are you looking for about Baator? How are you looking for it?
Quote from: Dracos on April 28, 2010, 03:05:07 AM
Training hard with Lady Gwynharwyf would be my highest priority, focusing on learning from her or her other knights anything and everything about taking on dragons or liches. Prolly ask her privately if she has any idea where Nikkolai dropped her phylactry since that's a standing important plot point. I suspect since I've been here before and will be here again that living it up here at the moment really isn't high on kam's priorities. He's got a huge mountain ahead and he means to climb it and live through it with his whole team intact. If that means he has to figure out ways to go farther so Mari or Nikkolai doesn't get killed, we'll, he'll try not to get killed himself doing so this time :P Glad to do a side session on this, possibly with knight, though getting my ass kicked repeatedly probably won't take long :P
Mari unleashed a pretty neat hook. :) So cute. :P
I rather appreciated that background element favoring Kam over Rogue and my fears on that being ungrounded. Sorry for doubtin' Dune.
uh...um. schedulin' hard. around late, usually. if something is happening, around reliably by normal session time usually. Saying when beforehand hard.
How about Thursday night, Kam? This depends somewhat on a few external factors, like if you and Knight talk to Gwynharwyf together or not. You can also fight Gwyn if you like in a sparring, though you're realistic about your chances to win.
Quote from: Gatewalker on April 28, 2010, 03:06:35 AM
1. Adail wants to talk to Rogue a bit, largely giving him the "So You Want To Be A Hero?" rundown from someone a bit more his level instead of a Power. I'd actually prefer to cover that with me typing up a post or PM of Teach Me Adail Sensei, as you know how much of a pain doing extra sessions is for me. Especially as I have Persona stuff coming up as well.
2. Uh, Adail was gonna help Nik try and clean up his act to snag the moon maiden, but I forgot what specific advice I had in mind though.
3. Yeah, Adail is big on training. Will definately put some hours into that if he can round up any local fist fighters to spar with.
4. The armor is getting a bit annoying to carry around. If I try and sell/trade that here, what might I be able to get for it?
1 is fine, type it up and either post or PM it, depending if you want it done public or private. As for 4, you'd need to hunt around for a buyer for that. A gather info check could help here to find a buyer, as could a good plan or something else. Selling this is a bit of a trick, think about it a bit.
@Dune: I need to inquire about Avernus' command structure. Specifically, I need to find out how mortals factor into it and how they come by employment there. Ok, a lot of the time it's forced slavery, but I think some bravos do it for money and power, too, so I'd like to know if there's any existing systems to help them. I'm also looking for travelogues of prior adventurers who've been there, and if there are any 'normal' or common ways mortals travel through and get around that area. For instance, I know OOC how the blood war works and how writs of passage can be granted to give mortals safe harbour in certain areas; are there any known ways to secure one, save forgery?
I think I can find this out via asking eladrin veterans or studying tactical manuals of 'how to lead crusades against Baator'.
Quote from: Anastasia on April 28, 2010, 03:17:01 AMQuote from: El Cideon on April 28, 2010, 02:57:08 AM
Mari's training montage could be scheduled for sometime over the weekend, perhaps? Doesn't really matter to me when since my other weekend games aren't running this time around.
Saturday morning or Sunday morning sound good to you?
Either works, as I have no plans to be anywhere this weekend. Rat's probably harder to schedule for than I am, so I'd say settle what day he needs first and I'll take the other one?
Idly, if Adail is going to give Nikkolai some protips on dating celestial bodies, I'd like to be there for that.
Quote from: Carthrat on April 28, 2010, 05:27:00 AM
@Dune: I need to inquire about Avernus' command structure. Specifically, I need to find out how mortals factor into it and how they come by employment there. Ok, a lot of the time it's forced slavery, but I think some bravos do it for money and power, too, so I'd like to know if there's any existing systems to help them. I'm also looking for travelogues of prior adventurers who've been there, and if there are any 'normal' or common ways mortals travel through and get around that area. For instance, I know OOC how the blood war works and how writs of passage can be granted to give mortals safe harbour in certain areas; are there any known ways to secure one, save forgery?
I think I can find this out via asking eladrin veterans or studying tactical manuals of 'how to lead crusades against Baator'.
I'll type this up in a few days.
Cid: Works for me.
Tentative scheduling on my end:
Mari: Saturday or Sunday.
Rat: Friday night.
Kam: Thursday night.
Nikkolai: ??? Let me know, Zeph.
This is purely for stuff that involves me, if all of you get together for something else that's up to you guys.
might be a little late as I haven't left the building yet. Trying to close out something I want closed first. no more than 10-15ish late.
Anyone care to roll K:P and help me find out what in the world a bebelith is?
<Kamvakua> roll 1d20+6 asking later come on, I'm not a knowledge tank anymore anyway ^^
<Hatbot> ACTION --> "Kamvakua rolls 1d20+6 asking later come on, I'm not a knowledge tank anymore anyway ^^ and gets 8." [1d20=2]
<Kobot> Kamvakua rolled 1d20+6 asking later come on, I'm not a knowledge tank anymore anyway ^^ --> [ 1d20=11 ]{17}
* Kotono np: Shoji Meguro - Battle For Survival [02:44m/256kbps/44kHz]
<Kotono> WAit for Zeph to post it then choose a bot and roll, Drac.
<Nikkolai> Posting!
<Kamvakua> hatebot, we ever hate together. Bot chosen. I haven't read yet but let's roll again.
<Kamvakua> roll 1d20+6 asking later come on, I'm not a knowledge tank anymore anyway ^^
<Hatbot> ACTION --> "Kamvakua rolls 1d20+6 asking later come on, I'm not a knowledge tank anymore anyway ^^ and gets 8." [1d20=2]
That was one heck of a side session. Nothing like ending on SUPERAMAZOCRIT.
I know.
But I can't tell you OOC. :(
It's a cute little thing! :P</total lies>
Truthfully, we're surrounded by Eladrin who go fight in the various hells regularly. Even if someone can't knowledge check it, you can ask. I mean, just because the fey lord might not tell you and our group might not know IC, doesn't mean there aren't dozens of powerful folks that make that trip regularly and would be able to tell about it.
Mmm. I'm pondering on the aftermath of what to do with my old weapon, with in theory another better one coming around. I've liked how it's largely been half superweapon, half plot thing for kam, with it being part of his backstory and getting to get played up a lot more in that side story. At the moment, there's three things in view to do with it:
A)Sell it: Kinda lame narratively. Also it's one of my more expensive items, so it transforms into a lot of raw currency. Sure I need some, but that could quickly turn into somewhat of a quick power gain there and detract from a neat transition from one to another. Feels greedy. Not leaning toward really.
B)Keep it as a memento type thing. Problem is realistically it's a large weapon. Sure, weights not a problem, but carrying two of them is actually a bit more toward the 'hard to visualize' angle, and I never like that it's hard to visualize how your character is doing what they're doing. It'd also always stand as a temptation to sell it later when it's more distant. Sure, that could be cool, at some point buying something the party might really need then or giving it to someone fitting, but much more likely to also become A.
C)Give it to someone as a gift. I'm kind of leaning this way, a returning the favor to the Eladrin that dared step into the same ring as kam and even after getting just totally brutalized charged in...only to get blasted completely out of the arena for it. He is currently unnamed npc eladrin knight A, but there's no reason he couldn't be upgraded to having a name and getting it. Bit hard for Kam to give him lessons in it with him knocked out for the next long while, but hey, some more characters aside from Lady Gwynharwyf to talk with next time we come back here. Also sort of spreading Kam's style a little around the world. I like it best from a narrative side.
I lean c-ward. Any opines?
I'd say keep it as a backup. All it takes is one sunder or accident to ruin your day, after all. Emergency gear is always good.
<Mari> roll 1d20+13 what is a bebelith, AKA hey let's watch Mari fail another knowledge roll because Hatbot wants her to be fucking ignorant about everything
* Hatbot --> "Mari rolls 1d20+13 what is a bebelith, AKA hey let's watch Mari fail another knowledge roll because Hatbot wants her to be fucking ignorant about everything and gets 24."12 [1d20=11]
<Mari> Mildly above average!
<Mari> Woohoo!
Ah, bebiliths! Imagine a spider the size of a two story house! Now liberally add in a bite that injects poison stronger than that of a wyvern! Now liberally mix in the ability to throw webs, armor-ripping claws and season with the fact that it's difficult to wound without a holy weapon and what do you get? A nightmare with YOUR names on it!
Also of note is that many creatures of the Abyss are ravaged or changed by the hateful chaos the realm embodies. You never know what tricks a demon will have that it shouldn't.
Also, if you guys are going to follow up on any more of Nikkolai's info(Or you are Nikkolai), let me know. You can make K:P on the layer of the Abyss Balimbomb mentioned, for example.
<Mari> 'kay, read up on stuff, save the bit that Zeph hasn't posted yet. 36th layer of the Abyss, eh? May as well roll on that, if there's nothing else.
<Mari> roll 1d20+13 So Hatbot, what does Mari know about floor 36 of the Abyss? Does Ragu live there?
* Hatbot --> "Mari rolls 1d20+13 So Hatbot, what does Mari know about floor 36 of the Abyss? Does Ragu live there? and gets 32."12 [1d20=19]
<Mari> Wow.
Gragolan, the 36th layer of the Abyss:
Gragolan is a wild, untamed land. Well, moreso than the normal Abyss. Most Abyssal layers have a demon prince, demon lord or God who holds some sway over it. Gragolan is currently untamed by any demon or God, the previous demon lord having been slain by Demogorgon 800 years ago. It is cracked plains that lead into deep subterranean caves without any mercy.
Of note and quite possibly related with the information you know? A bebilith named Ukyloa is said to have a deep, extensive lair below the surface of Gragolan. Why is this notable? It is half dragon, said to be the offspring of a bebilith and a black dragon. It's lair is said to have many, many, many treasures hidden within it's webs. Oh, of course getting there and getting past all the abominations is one hell of a trick! What with the demons, fiendish creatures, spiders of all types and sizes, acid rain on the surface(literal acid rain, as in OH GOD MY FLESH IS MELTING!), diseases, madnesses....
Good luck!
Good news! Faerinaal just said he'll open a portal up to the abyss instead of the prime, if we like!
...
>_>
Yes. You guys now have the option of heading to the Abyss, if you'd like to pursue the phylactery first. You'd appear on the first layer of the Abyss and get to look for a passage to the 36th layer.
I vote phylactery first. It would be a powerful card up our sleeve, if we don't end up destroying it out of hand.
I agree with Knight's assessment, though. We really need stuff that protects against acid.
Quote from: Carthrat on April 28, 2010, 05:27:00 AM
@Dune: I need to inquire about Avernus' command structure. Specifically, I need to find out how mortals factor into it and how they come by employment there. Ok, a lot of the time it's forced slavery, but I think some bravos do it for money and power, too, so I'd like to know if there's any existing systems to help them. I'm also looking for travelogues of prior adventurers who've been there, and if there are any 'normal' or common ways mortals travel through and get around that area. For instance, I know OOC how the blood war works and how writs of passage can be granted to give mortals safe harbour in certain areas; are there any known ways to secure one, save forgery?
I think I can find this out via asking eladrin veterans or studying tactical manuals of 'how to lead crusades against Baator'.
You're right. Most mortal fighters in the Blood War are idiots suckered into it or slaves captured and pressed into service. Most don't last long until dying, sucked into Baator and becoming wretched lemures. A rare few serve on more open terms. Powerful diabolical servants, madmen, gloryhounds without care and even the rare servant of good who desires to fight demons so much that they'll tolerate devils. For them there's not much direct support. They're mustered into units, which are integrated into the great armies of Avernus.
Writs of passage can be granted if you know the right devil and have a good reason(or bribe) to get one. Alternately, forgeries do exist, though being discovered on a forgery is a capital offense. The only other exception is if you're a very high ranking servant of a God, various powers occasionally send servants who benefit from diplomatic immunity while in Hell. You'll be escorted and as safe as can be!
On Nikkolai's request, Lord Balimbomb offers the following scrolls in exchange for another two years of service:
2x Scroll of Halt Undead.
2x Scroll of Ghost Touch Armor (Libris Mortis)
2x Scroll of Command Undead.
Adail, a poke about the armor. Are you interested in selling it? I was trying to give you a platform to work on selling it, not freeze you up on it. <_<
---
Any of you have any idea of SRD or items you know of that would accomplish what you desire - i.e., acid protection?
I'm probably not even going to get to the stuff I already planned before Tuesday, to be honest. Dealing with the armor can be put off further. I realize it's kinda crappy of me to not have any time/energy for the game outside of Tuesday evenings, especially where we are right now, but that doesn't change the fact that I simply don't, especially right now. So it goes.
Since you're tired and lacking energy right now, I'll skip to the gist of the entire armor thing.
Gnomish Adamantine Mecha Suit Prototype: 5,000 GP.
I'll probably buy a potion and hope I only need that much.
I really would want to do some kind of gold run, though. There's a lot of specific anti-abyss stuff we... cannot get without money. :(
That would be a good idea.
And...I'm thinking that those scrolls will *really* come in handy. Heck, I still have that scroll of knock and that scroll of transformation that Granny Tam gave me. Two years is totally worth the protection those scrolls can give us. What say you, guys?
Totally not worth it. The value of those scrolls is something like... 1,500-2000 gp all up. They're good- better than I thought at first glance- but not worth 2 years. <.<
Okay, just a few comments as we plan out toward the end. There was a long elysium discussion on things, most were there.
Kam is quite sad to see Nikki selling himself into servitude. If asked at all on any of more selling, he'd really be bapping him on the head. OOC you really should've abused your diplomacy skills more in negociation and seven years of your life is really a O_O trade.
I'm onboard with the abyss trip. Kam though does not like what we're looking at right now. What would make him like it?
A)Some plan/directions/strategy on how we're going to get from abyss layer 1 to abyss layer 36. He'd be glad to ask anyone who might be an expert there and doesn't expect it necessarily to hold up, but going in without any ideas on how we're going to make that trip seems unnecessary and pointlessly suicidal to him. The abyss is a dangerous place and wandering it randomly is not something that's acceptable as a plan in his eyes.
B)Some plan/directions/strategy on how we are going to get OUT of the abyss once we find what we're looking for. We can't open a way out ourselves right now. I understand not every demon will be aiming to kill us just for being there, but at the same time, Kam is not looking forward to wandering randomly looking for an exit.
Kam's gladly willing to suggest to the rest of the party that we find these things out promptly to the best of our ability and also willing to go ask any of the eladrin about it. He'd also suggest tapping on Granny Tam for advice if we cannot find this information here. He's also going to suggest we NOT spend all of our change here as we may really need currency for bribes down below and we're not the most rich on such.
Do they have known contacts, cities that aren't as likely to wreck us for entering, demons that tend to talk first? How do non-demons move between the abyssal planes? What (if any) are known exits to the plane on the 36th level, and if not, what are any that we know that are close? What is good acid rain protection gear or techniques for going along there and not slowly melting away (Does endure elements do it as I really hope)? What are any known demon types that we should be keeping an eye out to RUN from that tend to frequent those planes?
Kam rolls his own knowledge, but obviously, he's asking a lot because he knows he knows NOTHING :P The blood war is the story of boogeymen from another plane to him still.
<Kamvakua> roll 1d20+6
<Hatbot> ACTION --> "Kamvakua rolls 1d20+6 and gets 7." [1d20=1]
Personally, I'm also not really on the 'get devils to wage war and ride along with it' because I don't think that they'd plausibly ignore adail and kamvakua being anywhere near that plan and would assume its a trap. And we're pointing them at ...what? A giant half-dragon spider demon? Dangerous sure, but I dunno where the threat interest level comes from for the devils. What are we going to tempt them to attack?
Extra: Kam totally doesn't have to think the plans are the most rock solid thing. He knows no plan really survives the abyss. But a complete lack of a travel and exit plan says 'we're not ready to even try this trip'.
Certainly agreed that a plan is needed for any abyss-related journeys.
Would like to find some way of combining our objectives, though. I will have to think on this. A war is one option but possibly not the only one, we must secure a method of travelling through Baator sooner or later, and we already know Mari's sister is involved in the Blood War- like it or not, issues between devils and demons are pinging at the edge of our scope right now.
While we're in the abyss, I'll need a constant disguise. Thankfully, I have Disguise Self as an at will SLA. I'm thinking Kobold for my disguise, since they're on the small end of Small and Adail is on the big end of Tiny. Shouldn't be that much of a stretch. Also I'll blame any Detect Goods that pick us up on the fact that I have Protection from Evil up(I'll pretend I'm a Kobold Sorc/Monk or something), which is fairly reasonable for anyone to have going in the frikking ABYSS.
That sound good?
Well, really if we can get some non-detectable going that would probably be better. I mean, sure you can shapeshift, but Kam would detect easily enough as well. Really don't know any reasonable way to do that, but that'd be the best bet for a generally stealthy take that doesn't have us flagging target signs.
In due time, Kamvakua receives the weapon promised to him: Heaven-Stroke: Large Dwarven Warpike+1, holy.
---
Mari's shapechanging becomes 2/day now. Further, if she wishes to pursue it, she can take the following PrC.
This is an altered master of many forms, as you may gather on reading it. I'm not gonna hide it. <_<
Master of Forms
Prerequisites:
Special: Shapechanging ability.
Feat: Alertness, Endurance.
Hit die: d8.
Class skills: Climb, concentration, craft, diplomacy, disguise, handle animal, hide, jump, listen, spot, swim and survival.
Medium BAB, good fort and ref saves.
Shifter's Speech (Ex)
At 1st level, a master of forms may speak normally regardless of it's form. She can communicate with others of the creature type she changed into, if they can communicate with each other normally.
Improved Shapechanging (Su)
A master of forms learns how to assume other forms as she advances. At first level she can transform into an animal. At second level she can assume the shape of a giant, a monstrous humanoid at 3rd level, a fey at 4th level, a vermin at 5th level, an aberration at 6th level, a plant at 7th level, an ooze at 8th level, an elemental at 9th level and a dragon at 10th level. In addition, she may change into a large creature at 2nd level, a tiny creature at 4th level, a huge creature at 6th level, a diminutive creature at 8th level and a gargantuan creature at 10th level. She also gains another use of shapechange every even numbered level of master of forms(2, 4, 6, 8, 10).
Generally, when turning into a non medium sized humanoid, her gear melds into her new form. As with before, you need to be familiar with a creature(usually by encountering it) before you can transform into it. (Mari, if you do take this class you'd probably want to make a list of all the various monsters Mari's ran into.)
Fast Shapechange (Ex)
Starting at 3rd level, shapechange becomes a move action instead of a standard action.
Extrodinary Shapechange (Ex)
At 7th level, the master of forms gains all the extraordinary special qualities of the form it changes into.
Evershifting Form (Ex)
At 10th level the master of forms becomes immune to any transmutation effect unless it allows it to affect it. In addition, she no longer takes penalties for aging, though bonuses still accrue. She still dies when her time is up.
Fun. Prereqs mean I can't access it for a while, of course, but at least there's nothing else I was just dying to get for my next feats (GTWF isn't accessible for ages anyway due to the BAB required).
You could retrain feats, but yeah.
Okay, there's been a lot of discussion on what your next plan is. Have it figured out and decided on by gametime, be it lich hunting or abyss ridin' or gold hunting or whatever else.
I'm not sure where we are on equipment for our trip to the Abyss, but I'm for a money run if needed.
If we don't....I think that the Phylactery should be our top priority. As I remember Kam remarking, it would be awesome if we killed the Lich and she respawned in the Bebilith's pit and pwnd. However, if she gets even more baddies on her side by battling her way out of the Abyss...that'll come back and bite us in the ass.
So either way, I think a trip to the Abyss is on our agenda.
I believe our plan is Abyss Ridin'.
That said, there are two things to resolve that we do not have. Both of them are in my earlier post. Kam would like to ask around about both of those to get an idea before session if possible, but if not then yeah the first objective during the session is information gathering.
Personally, I'd rather start the session with getting toward the abyss myself, but I don't have either a "How do we intend to get from start point to finish point" or a "How do we intend to leave afterwards". I botched knowledge on it. Glad to just ask any eladrin willing to talk on abyss trips.
Also does Endure Elements work against the Acid Rain? It kind of says it doesn't, but there's no other spell I'm aware of that's good for low tier persistent environmental damage. A proper Resist last minutes not hours and is more geared towards serious 1d6 or higher tier acid damage. if not, um, is there something? Again, a question to more experienced abyss raiders from the Eladrin. Surely they've got folks here who've made abyss side trips and can advise on basic 'duh' protections amidst regaling us with their own epic heroics in the abyss.
Tl;dr: I want to go to the abyss, but I just want the basic 'duh' prep covered first. Where we going, how we leaving, what kind of raincoat do we need to be wearing. I'd prefer handling this pre-session to in session.
And yeah, if we find that the answer is "There's duh prep, but we can't afford it" then it's go money hunting instead. But I'd prefer abyss really.
Quote from: Dracos on May 03, 2010, 01:24:50 PM
I believe our plan is Abyss Ridin'.
That said, there are two things to resolve that we do not have. Both of them are in my earlier post. Kam would like to ask around about both of those to get an idea before session if possible, but if not then yeah the first objective during the session is information gathering.
Which ones are these? I've answered a lotta questions, humor me and post them again?
QuoteAlso does Endure Elements work against the Acid Rain? It kind of says it doesn't, but there's no other spell I'm aware of that's good for low tier persistent environmental damage. A proper Resist last minutes not hours and is more geared towards serious 1d6 or higher tier acid damage. if not, um, is there something? Again, a question to more experienced abyss raiders from the Eladrin. Surely they've got folks here who've made abyss side trips and can advise on basic 'duh' protections amidst regaling us with their own epic heroics in the abyss.
Endure Elements wouldn't stop acid rain. Certain planar protection spells would, such as Avoid Planar Effects in the Spell Compendium.
Quote from: Anastasia on May 03, 2010, 01:56:20 PM
Quote from: Dracos on May 03, 2010, 01:24:50 PM
I believe our plan is Abyss Ridin'.
That said, there are two things to resolve that we do not have. Both of them are in my earlier post. Kam would like to ask around about both of those to get an idea before session if possible, but if not then yeah the first objective during the session is information gathering.
Which ones are these? I've answered a lotta questions, humor me and post them again?
Sorry I confused, though I did ask them again just below the part you quoted. The three questions to general Eladrin that Kam cares about is:
A)How does one travel between layers in the abyss and what is a good suggested starting route to go from wherever we are being gated to where we want to go?
B)How does one exit the abyss back into any other normal/relatively safe plane? Are their any exit points near to our intended goal and how would we use them?
C)What are the basic protections one should have readied to travel on that plane? It sounds like Avoid Planar Effects is one of them.
Quote
QuoteAlso does Endure Elements work against the Acid Rain? It kind of says it doesn't, but there's no other spell I'm aware of that's good for low tier persistent environmental damage. A proper Resist last minutes not hours and is more geared towards serious 1d6 or higher tier acid damage. if not, um, is there something? Again, a question to more experienced abyss raiders from the Eladrin. Surely they've got folks here who've made abyss side trips and can advise on basic 'duh' protections amidst regaling us with their own epic heroics in the abyss.
Endure Elements wouldn't stop acid rain. Certain planar protection spells would, such as Avoid Planar Effects in the Spell Compendium.
I have not books in front of me. Is this a cleric spell or a wizard spell? Is it on the paladin list by any hope? If not cleric or paladin, how much does it cost to get the spell so that Nikki can learn it?
Thanks.
Mari has a couple thousand gold she can throw towards getting that spell if more cash is necessary. Sounds it would help to have it, at least.
Basically agreeing with everything Drac's said about hopefully handling prep stuff beforehand if possible. We have quests, goals, scary places and entities to visit! Looking forward to seeing them and not bogging session down in minutiae that could be sorted out pregame. Can knowledge: planes be applied to any of the questions in Drac's last post, or has our exploitation of that reached the limit for this particular mission? Talking to eladrin for info beforehand isn't really too objectionable if that's our only option; better than going unprepared and dying because of it. And I'm highly skeptical of our chances of getting reliable info from locals once we're there.
I should note that Mari will likely be nagging people to go to Baator as soon as possible, because I can't see her being patient about that at all. It's not me trying to steer things in a different direction! It's just the only way I could see her acting right now. She'll still abide by group decisions and all that. I personally am in agreement with going to the Abyss since we'd decided a while ago to take care of Nik's stuff next and, really, Baator's just as dangerous anyway (the first thing the first devil we talked to on Magma did was try to mind control us into joining the Blood War. Visiting a whole plane full of people like that? Ew. Some form of diplomatic protection sounds like a good idea there; while Knight's old boss can possibly provide it, it defeats the point if we have to go there to find him before we can even count on not getting mindraped in the streets. Find some way to contact him remotely later, maybe?)
Quote from: Dracos on May 03, 2010, 02:43:51 PM
Sorry I confused, though I did ask them again just below the part you quoted. The three questions to general Eladrin that Kam cares about is:
A)How does one travel between layers in the abyss and what is a good suggested starting route to go from wherever we are being gated to where we want to go?
B)How does one exit the abyss back into any other normal/relatively safe plane? Are their any exit points near to our intended goal and how would we use them?
C)What are the basic protections one should have readied to travel on that plane? It sounds like Avoid Planar Effects is one of them.
Nah, it's cool. I've just answered so many I'm trying to keep straight what I have and haven't.
A) The most common way is to head to Pazunia, the first layer of the Abyss. From there you can find portals to almost any other layer, which are deep sinkholes you leap into. Some layers have portals to other layers, but this is more erratic and less reliable. There are other methods, such as sailing the River Styx, but navigation is difficult as the chaos of the Abyss can often change currents, directions and generally fuckwith ship-riders. If you want to pursue this angle, talk to me.
B) There are various exit-portals dotted over the Abyss. They are never to the Heavens(With very rare exceptions beyond the scope of this situation), but often other evil realms, the elemental realities, and the Astral. The Styx can be used this way as well to leave to other evil planes bordering the Abyss. You guys can make an K:P check to determine if the 36th layer has any such portals or Styx-ways. Post results in this thread.
C) Avoid planar effects or variants thereof are always good. Beyond that it varies wildly from layer to layer of the Abyss. Acid protection sounds obvious for the 36th layer.
QuoteI have not books in front of me. Is this a cleric spell or a wizard spell? Is it on the paladin list by any hope? If not cleric or paladin, how much does it cost to get the spell so that Nikki can learn it? Thanks.
Cleric and wizard, spell compendium. See also: Attune Form.
> roll 1d20+8 lets all watch Adail fail another Knowledge roll
<Kobot> Gatewalker rolled 1d20+8 lets all watch Adail fail another Knowledge roll --> [ 1d20=7 ]{15}
I don't really know why I still bother.
Adail recalls there are underground tributary to the Styx in the 36th layer, that can be sailed by hearty or foolish souls that leads out to Pandemonium and to another layer of the Abyss Adail can't recall.
<Mari> roll 1d20+13 c'mon Kobot, Mari knew all about the 36th layer, surely she knows how to get in and out!
<Kobot> Mari rolled 1d20+13 c'mon Kobot, Mari knew all about the 36th layer, surely she knows how to get in and out! --> [ 1d20=18 ]{31}
Quote
Nah, it's cool. I've just answered so many I'm trying to keep straight what I have and haven't.
A) The most common way is to head to Pazunia, the first layer of the Abyss. From there you can find portals to almost any other layer, which are deep sinkholes you leap into. Some layers have portals to other layers, but this is more erratic and less reliable. There are other methods, such as sailing the River Styx, but navigation is difficult as the chaos of the Abyss can often change currents, directions and generally fuckwith ship-riders. If you want to pursue this angle, talk to me.
B) There are various exit-portals dotted over the Abyss. They are never to the Heavens(With very rare exceptions beyond the scope of this situation), but often other evil realms, the elemental realities, and the Astral. The Styx can be used this way as well to leave to other evil planes bordering the Abyss. You guys can make an K:P check to determine if the 36th layer has any such portals or Styx-ways. Post results in this thread.
C) Avoid planar effects or variants thereof are always good. Beyond that it varies wildly from layer to layer of the Abyss. Acid protection sounds obvious for the 36th layer.
*below assuming I'm asking people about this rather than just knowledge rolling*
A)Alright. :) So how would we generally find one and know that we have the right one? Is there a trick to it? A mark that we might know or is it just ask the locals, hope they don't lie to you for shits/giggles?
B)Not near dice. Others roll please. I'm fine with an exit route that heads to the elementals or astral. So if there is one, there's our initial exit plan. 1/3 solved!
C)Food/Drink? We've not been hitting that on for a while (Thank goodness), but checking if we're planning to be serious about rations and things. if we are, we'll buy them here~. More importantly, food encountered on the abyss, expected to be dangerous/poisonious, absent, or that don't worry about food the natives will kill you before you eat anyway~?
QuoteCleric and wizard, spell compendium. See also: Attune Form.
Alright, so Adail or Nikkolai could cast it. I cannot. Adail can you prep however much you can of it and give us an eyeball into how much more we're likely to need?
Heh and folks are already rolling.
Quote from: El Cideon on May 03, 2010, 05:22:13 PM
<Mari> roll 1d20+13 c'mon Kobot, Mari knew all about the 36th layer, surely she knows how to get in and out!
<Kobot> Mari rolled 1d20+13 c'mon Kobot, Mari knew all about the 36th layer, surely she knows how to get in and out! --> [ 1d20=18 ]{31}
Mari can expand a bit on what Adail knows: There are indeed those tributaries. The layer they go to is Absym, the realm of Demogorgon.
There are three known portals in the 36th layer. One leads to the Astral Plane, said to be atop the only mountain in the realm, a mountain peak scarred by acid rain, said to be 6,666 feet tall. Another lies somewhere deep within the caves and crevasses, said to lead to Limbo, guarded by Githzerai. A third leads to Earth, said to be at the lowest point of the plane, the deepest cave of them all.
I'm guessing we don't want to go mountain climbing, guys? Depends on how long our ability to ignore the acid rain lasts, but I really wouldn't want to push that. We get caught in the open when that wears off and uh. So I'd say one of the latter two portals sounds best. This depends in part on how close any of these are to the bebelith's lair, admittedly, but since that thing was already underground, at least one of them is probably feasible. I would kind of prefer not to jump back to Earth at a point we're not sure of. If we wind up near either of the armies, we could be in trouble. Group vote, guys?
Quote from: Dracos on May 03, 2010, 05:22:38 PM
*below assuming I'm asking people about this rather than just knowledge rolling*
A)Alright. :) So how would we generally find one and know that we have the right one? Is there a trick to it? A mark that we might know or is it just ask the locals, hope they don't lie to you for shits/giggles?
A mix of knowledge, information gathering and some luck. There are more stable portals, though with the nature of the Abyss, a portal changing or a mislabeled one is quite possible.
QuoteB)Not near dice. Others roll please. I'm fine with an exit route that heads to the elementals or astral. So if there is one, there's our initial exit plan. 1/3 solved!
Someone roll for Drac and post it then?
QuoteC)Food/Drink? We've not been hitting that on for a while (Thank goodness), but checking if we're planning to be serious about rations and things. if we are, we'll buy them here~. More importantly, food encountered on the abyss, expected to be dangerous/poisonious, absent, or that don't worry about food the natives will kill you before you eat anyway~?
Food and water are both a concern in the Abyss. It's possible to find them and magic can purify them, but it's never a guarantee. I'd make sure you guys come loaded with supplies, you'd know the Abyss can be a problem about it.
QuoteCleric and wizard, spell compendium. See also: Attune Form.
[/quote]
<Mari> roll 1d20+6 Kam is asking questions about how to get around in the Abyss, does he find the answers Kobot?
* Hatbot --> "Mari rolls 1d20+6 Kam is asking questions about how to get around in the Abyss, does he find the answers Kobot? and gets 25."12 [1d20=19]
<Kobot> Mari rolled 1d20+6 Kam is asking questions about how to get around in the Abyss, does he find the answers Kobot? --> [ 1d20=4 ]{10}
<Mari> Wrong bot this time.
<Mari> Boo.
Drac'll kill you for using Kobot, but the roll speaks for itself.
Avoid Planar Effects is Cleric 2, so I can cast it twice. The problem is, it lasts all of 1 min/level. So doubt it will be much help.
EDIT: Attune Form is Cleric 3, has the same effects as APE and lasts 24 hours, but I can't cast it. Also it targets 1 creature per 3 caster levels, so we'd need to get 3 scrolls of it at 6th level caster PER DAY to burn there to cover all of us.
As determined in chat, they cost 450gp per scroll. We could buy a couple days' worth if we wanted to. It is better than melting. There's no telling how long it'll take us to get to where we need to go on layer 36, of course. Could be more than a couple days; I'd be surprised if it was a conveniently short trip, given we've usually spent a couple days at least getting form place to place on other planes. Mrph. And bartering with the locals for some means of protection/guidance is surely ill-advised; not likely to find anyone trustworthy, and anything abyssal residents would want would surely be something we don't want to give them. I kind of can't help but feel there's going to be a gamble involved in here somewhere; with the Abyss, we probably can't be prepared for everything in advance.
On the subject of Attune Form
<Mari> No one can outright learn the spell, I guess?
<Kotono> Zeph could if he trained out a 4th level slot.
> Nik's a sorc, not a wizard. And I'm only a 3rd level caster
<Mari> Mrph.
> Attune Form strikes me as more useful in general in this group then Black Tentacles, but that might just be me.
Your call of course, Zeph, but I'm personally thinking that with 3 primarily melee chars in the party, Black Tentacles isn't all that awesome anyway, and Attune Form could save our asses alot down the line. Lots of environmentally hostile planes out there.
Three melee characters in the party, two of which have reach and one of which gets bonus damage against grapples foes. <_<
That's all assuming the enemy is grappled at the outside edge of the spell. It is a 20ft radius spell, though I suppose Kam's reach when Raging can still hit the center of that.
It's worth noting Zeph doesn't get another 4th level spell known until level 11, two levels from now. So whichever he chooses will be there awhile.
[14:36] <@Kotono> Saebelos can be met in one of three ways. Sacrifice a warrior dedicated to chaos in his name iwth a proper ritual to summon him....go to the Lamentations in Avernus and declare that you wish to speak with him in the name of Est, the old code...join his legion in the infernal army.
fun facts!
I would be interested in looking into sailing through the river styx. I'm not really a sailor, obviously, but if we can find someone who isn't going to screw us out of hand, a boat provides us with a lot of things (supplies and plenty of storage for the same, protection from the elements).
That proviso might be a trick, though.
I'll second that sailing the river styx sounds really cool and different. But yeah, not a sailor either.
Also, sure, let's buy uh, 4 weeks of rations, party wide?
what's that cost like 5 gp or something? maybe 25 gp?
I can look it up later. We can evenly divide or Kam can just carry it all. No real diff to me, just hammering out that we have plenty of travel food.
ah, looks to be 78 gp for rations/food for 5 people for 31 days. I assume if we're there a month later, we probably have larger problems than starving to death.
Well presumably we can hire someone to help us? Maybe? I don't know, Dune? >_>
Also, I just realised Nikkolai *knows* Resist Energy so we don't need that wand.
Abyssal To-Do List
1) Get Phylactery
2) Rescue any Cards hanging around there
3) Get Blood War intelligence, or find demons willing to buddy up with us vs. Baator
4) Pry anarchic weapons from the cold, dead hands of the demons we kill
How much raw gold do we have handy for bribes?
I have 600gp presently.
I've got 2800gp if nessesary, and assuming we don't have anything else to buy.
Styx stuff: It's possible but finding a reliable ride is easier said than done. The 'best' ones are Yugoloths known as Marraenoloths if you can find one and pay it enough money to do so. Mortal captains, demons and even a few devils make trips into the Abyssal parts of the Styx too. There are various branches and meanderings of the Styx on Pazunia. K:P can get you more info here on specifics and captains and all that.
<Dracos2> roll 1d20+6 Knowledge Styyyyx
<Hatbot> ACTION --> "Dracos2 rolls 1d20+6 Knowledge Styyyyx and gets 22." [1d20=16]
Kam wonders about captains. Routes. And anyone that has actually legitimately held up the bargain to traffic in good aligned warriors down the river styx and had a tale told about doing so.
It happens every once in awhile if the heroes pay right and bribe right. The Marraneloth Quinsalus is said to be unusually trustworthy for a Yugoloth, or at least hasn't betrayed anyone and gotten caught at it. Considering 'loths, it's probably the latter, but you work with what you have here.
Any word on how much of a bribe they usually want?
Where can we even meet this brave, noble explorers?
Drac: Range varies, but at least 2k is a good starting place. It depends on the location, danger and the whims of the 'loth in question.
Rat: You aren't quiiite sure. If someone had a slightly higher check and rolled it...(Mari, Zeph)
And any ideas on how to go find this guy to bribe him? :) He hang around a specific city? Sail up and down the plane? Has thirty seven tentacled cousins who each demand a task before he'll consider giving passage?
<Dracos2> roll 1d20+6 Knowledge We Are Going to Sail on a Demon Ship
<Hatbot> ACTION --> "Dracos2 rolls 1d20+6 Knowledge We Are Going to Sail on a Demon Ship and gets 26." [1d20=20]
I am on the scent of riverside adventure with demons.
Don't get in my way dicebots.
we still need mari or knight or nikkolai to roll.
As a note, we will almost certainly need to hide my nature triply well if we're going to deal with yugoloths. We get on about as well as Devils and Eladrin or Demons and Archons. Adail can restrain himself from causing problems, of course. But he will caution everyone that 'loths are the most dangerous of the three lower planar types by far, by virtue(?) of being the least predictable, most subtle and most opportunistic(at least in his opinion).
So we're taking Yulia with us for infinite prot: evil, and she'll have to hide in Kamvakua's hat or something since a noisy courre eladrin is- well, I've wanted to strangle her, so imagine what a demon would do? >_>
That just leaves Rogue. I'd like him to come with us, and would want to know what he thinks.
But you know if I'm outvoted here I have two other ideas. He can...
1) Scope out the prime. Since he has never been seen with us outside Arborea clearly the lich cannot know he's with us. So he could go on an info run and be given some discretion on preparing for our eventual lich encounter.
2) Try and prepare some kind of Baator Invasion Crew. The plan I'm working on presently for our eventual trip there is that we'll buddy up with some powerful devil lord, who'll hopefully give us some clearance to wander around (bringing along a sack of demonic heads might help here.) But it might also be pro to have a second group of people who can bust in and break heads without incriminating us down the track.
Leaving him to stew in Arborea seems a bit silly. Also he won't want to.
Proviso: Actually, he might want to because it means he gets to continue to zealously worship Morwel. I don't know. >_>
Kam actually doesn't have a hat. But I keep thinking I should get one. It'd be cool. :P
And I dunno about Rogue. I'd rather not have the essence of betrayal at my side while hoping that demons I am going to bribe do not betray me.
:P
But seriously, IC, if you want to give him a chance, fine. I stick next to Yulia and only gut him if he tries to get us all killed :P
12:45 Zephyrus • roll 1d20+10 Dude, where's my boat?
12:45 Hatbot › --> "Zephyrus rolls 1d20+10 Dude, where's my boat? and gets 11." [1d20=1]
In other news, a young Kentuckian began a rampage of terror on main street, trashing small shops that sold die and screaming incoherently about someone called "Hatbot".
Hate stronger.
Anyhow, I am saddened that I do not know when I exit the portal onto the horrific face of the abyss, which direction I want to head and what I am expecting to find there. I have no map nor prior knowledge nor question.
I suppose I will open with a survival roll to figure out the area that looks most like a well traveled path and lead down that way.
hopefully mari will roll high and fix this.
Don't look at me, man.
<Mari> roll 1d20+13 so there's this guy with a boat and he might not kill and that's cool so we need to know where he hangs out and what he might want to get paid for not killing us
* Hatbot --> "Mari rolls 1d20+13 so there's this guy with a boat and he might not kill and that's cool so we need to know where he hangs out and what he might want to get paid for not killing us and gets 16."12 [1d20=3]
<Mari> Fudge.
Ouch. Drac, you guys can get portaled close to the Styx so you guys can run info gathering, hunting or whatever pleases you guys on site.
Alright. Well that's good at least, landmark and hopefully demons or people or something that we can talk at. :)
Quote from: Carthrat on May 04, 2010, 09:06:40 AMThat just leaves Rogue. I'd like him to come with us, and would want to know what he thinks.
Talking with Morwel assuaged Mari's fears to the extent that she wouldn't really object to him coming along. Given where we're going, she's not about to turn down an extra hand.
It is kind of a concern what effect the Abyss will have on him, though.
Good session. The Abyss is just getting warmed up, good luck!
---
Re: Rogue and Baylee. You guys were chatting around OOC about having him escort her back while you guys go to deal with spider shit. Is this serious or just chewing the fat?
I don't imagine it's serious until we actually know a way for them to get back. There's no point sending anyone off on their own unless we know of a portal that can reliably get them somewhere safe. In fact, it would be incredibly dangerous (for them). Rogue's tough, but by himself, and with a (presumably weak) NPC to watch out for? Anything could happen. Something bad likely would. I wouldn't suggest splitting up until we're like literally standing in front of the portal they'd take out of the Abyss.
It's not a bad idea if we actually find such a way out, though, and I suggest asking around for one while we're still on layer 1. As untrustworthy as the locals are, it couldn't hurt to see what our options are. Baylee at the least certainly needs a way out; she's just a random villager (barring some crazy surprise) and there's pretty much no way she'd survive once we got dungeon crawling down on layer 36.
Mari is very much not down with leaving her behind, will say so IC next session.
See Cid, basically. Adail will do everything in his power to get her to safety, and would be willing to trust Rogue with her once we got to a safe portal.
I will want to suggest, and will bring up IC, that Nik devotes three of his level 1 spell slots per day to keeping Mage Armor on her at all times. It still won't get her AC up to very much I'm sure, but between that and her just doing full defense every time a fight breaks out, it may get her up out of auto-hit range.
Depends the method we find to take her out. If we find a portal that goes to the material plane frankly I'm likely to suggest we send her on her way with enough gold to find her own way.
I have a spare chain shirt she can wear. She's surely not proficient, but oh no, she'll fail some attack rolls and str/dex checks? It's only -1.
I want to bring this up, but can rogue cast prot. evil himself? He should prepare that and use it to defend himself against mental intrusion during fights, since he can apparently cast paladin spells as a swift action...
Kam is pretty much eye to eye with Mari on this. Bringing her further down is a death sentence or worse. And given that it is unlikely a portal from here leads anywhere nice, she will need a guardian when she goes for at least a bit. We don't want a PC to do it, and we have a good aligned strong NPC who will. That dovetails very nicely.
~~~~~~~~
A day out, I think last session was pretty awesome as an entrance to the abyss. We encountered demons and otherwise, they both talked and attacked, they tried trickery, diplomacy, lies, bartering, and violence. Our NPCs got to show off flavor. Our PCs got to do the same. We had battle, risk, matched with awesome slaughtering in our favor.
I think it did wonderfully in establishing the Abyss as a terrible yet chaotic place and also establishing our party as capable and effective, ready to brave the dangers of more fearsome layers, and up to the challenge of facing deadly foes. Sure, we won't have it as easy necessarily as we go lower (and we shouldn't), but at the same time we faced a variety of challenges and curbstomped them for the most part, carrying on. We did this not because the challenges posed no threat, but because we had a suitable set of capabilities to deal with what was going on effectively, knowledge and spells to protect ourselves, wisdom and diplomacy to take advantage of opportunities and not have everything be a fight, and strength and violence when the abyss was a wave of violence like it any Evil realm can be at any time. Adail even had one of his rare bits where he really got to let his general all purpose abilities shine well, his see invisible and protection spells helping keep us well shielded as we moved on.
Overall, a thumbs up. Let us continue down the road of chaos and dismay.
Rogue should be able to. It is a paladin spell. I could do it, so I'd expect him with full paladin casting levels would be able to.
If it goes to somewhere only marginally less harsh than the abyss I'd not complain if Rogue went along. Relatively nice? She can go it alone, other mortals do.
Rogue can cast Protection from Evil; I just posted his stats over in the Songs of Eva. Certain things may be withheld for plot reasons, but that's his basic build. He's built -very- well because he was meant to be a boss from the get-go, not an NPC. He's about on Kam's level of optimization with a few extra things, like permanent freedom of movement, which is sick.
I appreciate being a measuring stick of char-opt. :)
Unrelated: Zeph, I wanna talk to you in the next day or two. Nothing bad, just been meaning to and this is an excellent time.
Came to mind, btw. As general practice, some of us wear armour! We can't wear it when sleeping unless it's light, and for the purpose of slot efficiency I think it's better for me to rent out my chain shirt to Baylee.
However, Nikkolai can cast Mage Armor with a 9 hour duration, so if he precasts it on me and Kam before we sleep, we'll be in good shape (and if nothing happens, he'll get the slots back in the morning anyhow.)
That's actually a pretty cunning strategy.
Kamvakua approved! :P
Okay, for discussion of next week: Any plans/ideas, since you have some time whilst boating? What are you guys going to do now if anything?
So! What abyssal natives make good mounts?
Succubi. DC 20 ride check, DC 20 perform: sex acts check, immunity to energy drain, large sized ones only.
Make an K:P or ask others to on your behalf, seriously.
<Mari> roll 1d20+13 what does Mari know about Abyssal things that Knight could ride?
* Hatbot --> "Mari rolls 1d20+13 what does Mari know about Abyssal things that Knight could ride? and gets 29."12 [1d20=16]
02:43 +Hatbot › --> "Nikkolai rolls 1d20+10 K:p and gets 13." [1d20=3]
02:43 Nikkolai • Too bad.
As for Nikk...he really just wants to get off this motherfuckin' plane. Perhaps chat with the Captain about the Abyss in general?
<Kamvakua> roll 1d20+6
<Hatbot> ACTION --> "Kamvakua rolls 1d20+6 and gets 23." [1d20=17]
Helping Knight out
Anyhow, Kam's goals short term for next session are:
A)Stop the boat, get Baylee to astral plane.
B)Get sword off of Mari's hand. She can't fight with that and it's really not safe for her mental well being.
C)Keep an eye on Knight and make sure she doesn't do anything stupid while mourning (Like drink styx water or something)
D)Hope Someone is watching our ferryman just in case, even if he seems like a typical neutral statue type avatar "As long as you obey my rules, I don't cheat you".
E)Move on to our real destination.
Generally Kam's going to be focusing on Mari and staying away from the water. Anyhow, that should do for next plans.
Knight will swiftly MAN UP over this tragic loss and concentrate entirely on how a new mount can be found. (and she'll offer to try and shatter the sword on Mari's arm, if it comes to that.)
So SEIBA will MAN UP and use her own SWORD to smite the SWORD of Mari?
Hm.
Miscellania: Mari's deafness would've lasted 1d4 days(rolled a 3 in DM channel), then it would've improved but her ears would be damaged. Without a cure deafness she'd suffer a -6 to listen checks until fixed, as well as a -3 to balance checks due to inner ear damage. The potion solved all those problems at once.
Rat gets a thumbs up for preparedness!
So guys, might as well get it out of the way? Any detection stuff we can throw at that sword to figure out more details on it? I suspect detect evil will just politely say "Yes, the cannibalistic sword is evil." and thus isn't really good for the type of information we're looking for.
Detect magic will likely say hey its magical. Cute.
I think identify is where it is at...but we kind of want a more advanced analysis here than we usually get out of identify.
I suppose we can always go the "SHATTER" route, I'm just rather worried about the shatter route taking Mari's hand with it or doing enough damage to it that a simple cure spell can't just fix it up.
Detect Evil shows the sword is evil. Stunning.
Detect magic shows magic. If whomever is doing it cares to they can roll spellcraft for school info.
Quote from: Anastasia on May 12, 2010, 12:33:38 PM
So SEIBA will MAN UP and use her own SWORD to smite the SWORD of Mari?
Hm.
I'm not sure I like what's being implied here. Whatever it is.
Anyway, yeah, exhaust whatever ways we have of gleaning information about it and if that doesn't work, shatter the thing. I can't even use this kind of weapon effectively in combat; it's only a hindrance physically and who knows when it'll start chewing at my brain again. I am going to see if shapeshifting might help dislodge it, but not optimistic there.
How are you going to be using shapeshifting exactly, Mari?
Hoping if I jump to something somewhat different in size (gnome or halfling at least should be options) the sword will have to take a moment to adjust and I might be able to drop it. All I've got, really. As I said, not real optimistic but worth a shot.
Okay, we'll resolve that real quick. Describe the exact form you're going to shift into?
(An SRD link would be nice too if possible.)
Mari concentrates for a moment to turn herself into something else. Something shorter, as small and compact as she can make her body be! Gnomes are small, right? Let's try that! Mari doesn't care about wasting effort on any superficial aspects right now, she just wants the shape of something leaner. When her arms shrink and the bone shifts, hopefully she'll have a moment to dislodge that sword while it tries to keep up!
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/races.htm#gnomes
Shrinking down, Mari's hand loosens! For a moment the sword is looser, as...
Make a dex check, Mari.
<Mari> roll 1d20+6 c'mon Hatbot, c'mon!
* Hatbot --> "Mari rolls 1d20+6 c'mon Hatbot, c'mon! and gets 13."12 [1d20=7]
<Mari> Sigh.
With as much speed as she can muster, Mari jerks her hand away and tries to drop it! It' snot perfect, the barbs tearing out great hunks of Mari's flesh, but it works! The sword lies on the barge now, free of her hand!
Mari takes 10 points of damage. Adjust topic HP in #elysium.
Note: Add this 10 damage in when you update stats, Drac.
HP adjusted. Evil sword of evil and mind corruption gone, yay! Mari is down with pushing that thing into the Styx (using an inanimate object, of course! She's not touching it directly again) unless someone else thinks it might be tradeable to abyssal denizens. It totally deserves it.
Knight, if I haven't replied on the mount stuff by Saturday give me a poke. With all this posting I have a dim idea I'll manage to forget to.
I have no interest in swords that refuse to disarm themselves.
Kam thinks if we can wrap the sword we should keep it as something we can barter with that we do not care about to demons who might like it. We're still in a nasty area and we generally spending more than we're taking in, so having something to barter away that we don't care about.
Alternately if we want to be really nuts, it does appear to be a sentient sword. We can try dipping it into the styx and see if that takes the fight out of it.
Anyhow those are ideas, not really going to argue hard about keeping the demonic hand eating sword.
You have been stated.
While it would be kind of amusing to actually mindwipe the sword (if that's possible), I am obviously not volunteering to test afterward to see if it worked. Getting rid of it the first time was trouble enough. Also, party-worst will save (I can only imagine what would've happened if I'd bombed that roll). I volunteer Nikkolai for this job!
We can wrap it up in something for trading, I suppose. We haven't picked up anything else this trip but some jewelry and a lot of pain.
Actually if we mindwipe it and it doesn't come up as evil after that I might want to check it out. Shall we use a complicated rope and pully system?
This scheme is looking more amusing by the moment.
Nice new avatar, Rat.
How about Adail ties a rope around the hilt, then someone with height and muscle uses said rope to lower it in? I really doubt we need pullies and such for this.
Yes, but ropes and pullies are fun! When a DM sees a plan involving them, it's a jackpot for PC torment!
>_> <_<
Alright, plan abuse the sentient sword is go.
First, Adail shall tie it up using Protection from Evil and...a ROPE.
Then Kamvakua will lift the rope...and provided it holds, slip it into the water of the styx carefully, wait a few moments, pull it out, and set it down. Kam will be careful as he has no desire to get wet with styx water even accidentally.
I think we can then wait for it to dry a while before messing with it further, but then someone with prot from evil and saves to spare should check it out.
Knight consults the party for information on mounts! It turns out Mari knows the most about this by far, the two spending some time talking together. The options are as follows:
Fiendish versions of normal creatures: Yep. A normal, non outsider creature could be found on the abyss, possessed by the power of evil. This is the 'I want something normal but evil looking!' option. Except they are possessed by terrible, soul damning evil. If you're interested in a particular fiendish type of creature, talk to me and we'll get into more specific information. Any creature that isn't always good aligned can theoretically have a fiendish variant in the Abyss, but the closer they are to absolute good, the less likely you are to find it. Fiendish pegasi are very rare, for example, but not unheard of. (Usually Chaotic Good).
Anarchic versions of normal creatures: See above, except replace evil with writhing, pure chaos. Adapt from there.
Half-fiend versions of mounts: Have you ever wondered what happens when a demon and a horse/pegasus/unicorn/nightmare/gryphon/hippogriff/giant bird/whatever else love each other very much? That's right, it's mounts that are half demon! On one hand these are a vast upgrade, having better stats, wings to fly with, and possibly SLAs. On the other than, they're always chaotic evil. It's like a demon lite: It's only a crazed sociopathic murderer instead of a full on demon.
Half-anarchic versions of mounts: Now this is more of Limbo's bag, as the half fiend template usually trumps the half anarchic template. But the Abyss is nothing but versatile, and sometimes a half breed pops out that's not evil but instead hopelessly chaotic. See above, replace evil with chaos where relevant, note that they're much rarer in the Abyss than the half-fiend variants, and that they're more random than purely homicidal.
At this point I imagine Knight's getting just a wee bit tired. This isn't new, this isn't helpful! She grabs Mari's hand and stares into her faded sky blue eyes, and whispers to her, "I need a better mount, Mari! Please!" Then I can see Mari blushing and smiling, "Aaah...yeah! Knight, of course there are better mounts..." Then looking at her and smiling, that smile that says so much as they draw closer together and...ack!
Ahem. Sorry. Where was I? Right.
Nightmares: While not a native of the Abyss, Nightmares are the most well known evil steed there is. If you find a blackguard, anti paladin or other such rogue, you know well you'll find a nightmare as it's loyal steed. With smoke, good attacks, good flying without wings, ethereal and astral travel capacities, a nightmare is the gold standard of hellish mounts. The trick is getting one to serve you. While normally neutral evil, many of the ones in the Abyss have become chaotic evil over the eons, as chaos has dug into their hearts. They're no better than demons, with taming one being an endless, perilous concept at absolute best. It usually takes dedication to a power of evil to succeed at this task, though it's not quite impossible.
Just fantastically close to it.
Demons: If a demon's large or larger sized, ride it! This has worked for the demons in the Blood War for years! Who can forget the time they first saw a balor riding on a tamed bebelith steed? This can be done, but you're trying to use an intelligent, malicious incarnation of the Abyss as a steed. Good luck if you pursue this path. If you have a demon in mind and want to pursue this, say so. Possible steeds: Bebeliths, glabrezu, mariliths, nalfeshnee, retrievers, advanced vrocks, armanites, chasme, goristro.
Kam might note conflict of interest if we get honest to goodness vocal demons as part of our party. Just saying.
Well, duh. Naturally. I think that part goes without saying, who am I to point something like that out?
The more outright demon something is the less I want to ride it on account of such creatures being ludicrously temperamental, so I'm mostly considering abyssal/anarchic creatures as viable. I do think a Nightmare would be pretty ace, but I'm sure a CE Nightmare is as bad as any demon. Infernals and neutrals I'd consider. If there's such a thing as an abyssal savannah...
Since the abyss is big on harsh slavery I'm also going to keep an eye out for any such markets, where we might be able to buy/liberate a mount.
REDACTED!
Quote from: Carthrat on May 15, 2010, 03:11:49 AM
The more outright demon something is the less I want to ride it on account of such creatures being ludicrously temperamental, so I'm mostly considering abyssal/anarchic creatures as viable. I do think a Nightmare would be pretty ace, but I'm sure a CE Nightmare is as bad as any demon. Infernals and neutrals I'd consider. If there's such a thing as an abyssal savannah...
Since the abyss is big on harsh slavery I'm also going to keep an eye out for any such markets, where we might be able to buy/liberate a mount.
With the party alignment, an anarchic or half anarchic creature would fit into the party well enough, as long as it isn't chaotic evil.
I'm pretty sure there's an Abyssal savannah, I know there's a jungle(Demogorgon's level, as a matter of fact!).
Don't realllllly want to explore layers other than the top one and the place we're going, doing that seems liable to transform my simple 'acquire a mount' desire into a struggle of epic proportions.
Quote from: Carthrat on May 15, 2010, 03:17:22 AM
Don't realllllly want to explore layers other than the top one and the place we're going, doing that seems liable to transform my simple 'acquire a mount' desire into a struggle of epic proportions.
You think this won't be a struggle and/or clusterfuck of epic proportions by the time you get out as it is?
I'm not trying to avoid damage so much as minimize it? <_<
Good luck with that. Now help them with those pullies and with trying to brainwash an evil sword, would you?
Ah hell with it. Nikkolai, talk to me about your feats before next session.
What could go wrong? It's physics at work!
You think physics work as you want them to in the Abyss?
Gravity worked as expected. Surely this applies to everything else.
Just wait until the Abyss decides otherwise.
I have the perfect mount for Knight.
A Xorn.
So, really cool item. Sadly BlindSense instead of Blindsight. But still cool.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm
Anyhow, I read over it this morning trying to get a feel for what it does and doesn't do and its pretty vague because blindsight and blindsense usually are more heavily qualified than lowlight and darkvision. Those come from your eyes and are LoS 120 feet always on abilities effectively that are pretty binary on being relevant.
Blindsense and Blindsight both tend to have the qualifiers of "Is it always on (passively) or free action (Active, but costs nothing)", What form does it take (Is it magical eyesight? Is it touch based? Sound based? Aura? Other), and whether its LoS or Radius (Usually it is radius but not always~). This effectively ends up with a wide range of effectiveness: Ranging from Passive Radius Aura Based (pretty cool) at the high end to Active magical eyesight LoS at the low (hope nobody throws sand in your eyes and that you remember to call out blindsense).
Beyond that, as I understood it, Blindsense means that if someone enters whatever the active area is, I free spot/listen them (No roll auto-success? Not sure!) and if they're invisible I know what square they are in, but nothing more. Invisible folks still get all benefits against me.
So kind of wondering what it actually is ending up as and whether my read on what it actually does when it is active is right? :)
My two-cents? I hope its Passive Radius Aura, which is pretty cool even without being blindsight. It at least gives sort of a defense against being blinded and a generally 'pretty impossible to sneak up on' radius. Sound or ground based radius wouldn't be bad either. Magical eye-vision blind sight is actually pretty pointless and really only matters if an invisible guy is right in front of me, and doesn't give any benefit that Adail going 'invisible guy here' doesn't give. Item is still cool any which way, but yeah, hoping the blindsense is at least cool blindsense.
It's a radius and hearing based, Drac. Which means if you were deafened it would be ineffective during that time. It's always on, but feel free to prod me about it, as odds are mistakes will happen in the heat of things.
---
Are you guys healed up in the #elysium topic, including a night's rest? Go ahead and get your healing ducks in order, if you need any more wand or spell healings, roll them in #elysium and post 'em.
Spending 2 CLW charges.
<Dracos> roll 2d8+6
<Nyarlahatbot> ACTION --> "Dracos rolls 2d8+6 and gets 14." [2d8=2, 6]
Spending 2 more.
<Dracos> roll 2d8+6
<Nyarlahatbot> ACTION --> "Dracos rolls 2d8+6 and gets 14." [2d8=5, 3]
Can someone update my hp +37? Brings me to 112/114. Good enough.
Taking the remainder:
Knight: 74/102, Mari: 51/58, Adail: 26/46, Kamvakua: 75/114(DR2/-), Nikkolai: 27/65, Yulia 10/17
I'm thinking we should continue using wands over spells, saving spells for pitch combat type thing.
Adail I assume is going to use his super charge heals on Nikki or knight.
1 CLW to Yulia
<Dracos> roll 1d8+3
<Nyarlahatbot> ACTION --> "Dracos rolls 1d8+3 and gets 11." [1d8=8]
Yulia is fully healed.
1 CLW to Mari
<Dracos> roll 1d8+3
<Nyarlahatbot> ACTION --> "Dracos rolls 1d8+3 and gets 8." [1d8=5]
So is Mari.
I'll see what Adail wants to do with his more powerful heals before I toss against the remaining folks.
I used all my good healing in the fight back in the town. I can't do it again until we sleep.
We rested after dropping Baylee/Rogue off.
Okay!
Drac's going to be missing a few sessions later in June. Do any of you wanna run Kamvakua in RoboGoliath mode while he's gone? I can run him as a pure NPC, but he'll do the absolute minimum that way.
Accounting for natural healing due to rest but not my spells just yet
Knight: 84/102, Mari: 58/58, Adail: 33/46, Kamvakua: 84/114(DR2/-), Nikkolai: 37/65, Yulia 17/17
Accounting for spells:
Knight: 99/102, Mari: 58/58, Adail: 46/46, Kamvakua: 114/114(DR2/-), Nikkolai: 61/65, Yulia 17/17
* Hatbot --> "Gatewalker rolls 1.5*(2d8)+3 empowered healing for Nikki and gets 15." [2d8=4, 4]
> roll 1d8+1 wand charge Nikki
* Hatbot --> "Gatewalker rolls 1d8+1 wand charge Nikki and gets 9." [1d8=8]
> roll 2d8+2 wand charge Adail
* Hatbot --> "Gatewalker rolls 2d8+2 wand charge Adail and gets 13." [2d8=6, 5]
> roll 2d8+2 wand charge Knight
* Hatbot --> "Gatewalker rolls 2d8+2 wand charge Knight and gets 15." [2d8=8, 5]
Spells used: 1 2nd
Wand charges used: 5
Also shifted the 8 hp Kam healed Mari for over to himself, since she healed to full overnight without any spells needed.
EDIT: Removed my Kam healing. Didn't notice that he'd healed himself.
Lesson Learned: Sleep healing gets applied first to everyone so we don't get confused :P
FOR IMMEDIATE READING AND ATTENTION:
Will every PC please make a will save with a +2 modifier before the start of the next session and post the results? Thank you.
<Dracos> roll 1d20+12
<Hatbot> ACTION --> "Dracos rolls 1d20+12 and gets 32." [1d20=20]
Kam got the will, he got the way.
[17:11] * +Hatbot --> "Erin rolls 1d20+13 and gets 17." [1d20=4]
Another brilliant start
> roll 1d20+17 mysterious will save
* Hatbot --> "Gate-viciouscycle rolls 1d20+17 mysterious will save and gets 24." [1d20=7]
Waiting on Mari and Zeph.
Re: Zeph. When he shows for the session, probably before I get home, could guys get him to do this and to post in Party Status? Thanks!
<Mari> roll 1d20+7 why can't all my saves be ref? Why?!
* Hatbot --> "Mari rolls 1d20+7 why can't all my saves be ref? Why?! and gets 11."12 [1d20=4]
<Mari> Feh.
Hatbot --> "Zephyrus rolls 1d20+13 Come on, baby. and gets 27." [1d20=14]
Notes:
As mentioned in chat, the lightning demons were will o' the wisp rogue 1s. If they come up again IC you don't know this, but OOC you do. Nasty fuckers all the way, that extra die of sneak attack really makes them extra dangerous. They damn near got Mari! They only reason they didn't finish her off is because while intelligent, they weren't intelligent enough to pick between dying and dead. 'sides, Mari wasn't going to be doing anything after that shock combo.
Mari came within 2 HP of death. Hatebotting all the way until the end of time. Managing to botch that tumble check was epic hate.
This entire area is very Gygaxian in design, with frequent death traps and unceasing danger. I'm not a huge fan of this style of design, but it fits the Abyss to a T. Good luck!
Cleaned up the board a bit! Party status is now stickied, loot and away thread are now unstickied.
(Drac, don't resticky them.)
Also:
I pushed the party to be faster in combat last night and I'm going to keep doing this. In a situation where there's a lot of small battles versus one big throwdown, a certain efficiency is essential to a good game flow. Have what you want to do lined up before your turn and be ready to execute once you're up. Have your values ready, long pauses while you look them up just slow everyone down. In particular, once you act, pay attention to the game channel until I resolve it. I often ask follow-up questions and these can often hang long.
This isn't meant to speed along out of combat or roleplay, just to keep combat moving as fast as possible. If you're uncertain or want to discuss your next move, do it OOC before your turn in #elysium.
Quote from: Anastasia on May 26, 2010, 12:22:44 PMMari came within 2 HP of death. Hatebotting all the way until the end of time. Managing to botch that tumble check was epic hate.
Seriously, 90% chance of success on that roll. Fuck you, Hatbot.
Speedier combat is approved by Cids. We did a lot last night and it was all pretty fun.
Idly, can whoever's been keeping track of healing supplies post whatever we've got left to stave off (or confirm) my fears that we're going to run out before we leave the Abyss?
asdf. On that subject, I've been keeping fairly good track of my wand charges, except I forgot last session. I'll need to comb through to see how many I used. bleh.
Incidentally, I think most of the decisions for any given fight are really decided before we get there most of the time.
I think I need to talk about strategy IC somewhat, both in a combat-right-now style and for when we're generally roaming around. The abyss is sufficiently dangerous and weird that I don't really want to split up, and the benefits of scouting are somewhat obliviated when stuff just magically appears behind you.
In particular I really must tell Yulia not to bother casting magic missile, the effect is trivial, blocked by SR a lot, and I don't like the idea of her being, well, noticed by stuff that oneshots her. I don't know how good she is with that bow; it could be viable. However faerie fire is a must on *any* and *every* demon that can turn invisible. She has the skills; gaps in her knowledge can be filled in by others with K:P; it has to be her first action in any such case. Also, shouldn't she spend most of her time in her alternate ball of light form while wandering around? We need a light source, it makes her much harder to hit, and while I suppose she can't shoot things she can still cast spells (and really I still think her ability to shoot must be near-useless, unless the arrows put things to sleep or something? outsider saves lol.) The most important thing she gives is the aura anyway, don't want to compromise that.
I was about to talk about how myself and Mari should take point, but then I realized Kam is tougher than me and has better perception than Mari, so I guess he should. Adail should probably go at the back so if anything really harsh sneaks up on us, the one who can actually dodge it/make the save is there to do so. Nikki would go in the middle, probably flanked by me and Mari, so...
Kn
Ad Ni Ka
Ma
star formation GO. Usually our enemies will determine our strategy. Basically, as far as random encounters go, it's pretty simple:
-Does this fight look like it'll take a while? If yes, spend the first round hiding and buffing, I think just about everyone has something they can do here. If no, just go straight in for the attack.
-Are there many enemies? Either tentacle them, fireball them, or put Kam in the middle of them.
-Are there few enemies? Surround one at a time and beat the crap out of them.
-Are there enemies that summon other enemies? Kill them first.
-Are there invisible enemies? Yulia-chan~
-It's more important to survive than take chances. If you're on low HP but the party seems to have it handled, disengage immediately and hide until it's over if you can. We've got healing, but we can't cure you if you're dead. On that note, if both Adail and Kamvakua manage to bite it, the rest of us are basically fucked. So let's not have that happen.
If for once we're actually the ones getting the jump on someone then we can plot all kinds of nastiness beforehand.
Kam has a big stick. This is a gygaxian dungeon. I'm sure he can see where I'm going with this, test every square before stepping on it. I already got burned twice for not doing that and consider myself to have learned a lesson, I'm sure it'll recur. @_@
Spellwise, next time we rest, I think Kam should prepare shield other (it lasts a couple hours and is a pretty obvious pick on Mari or Nikki, the former in particular has defense issues, is in melee a lot, and is kinda squishy, I don't think a session in the abyss has gone by without her suffering some grevious wound.) Given the amount of poison we've run into so far in this short stint, stuff that helps against that would be nice from the divine casters, too.
For particularly dangerous-looking areas we can always have Nikki summon some creature to go ahead of us and see what happens to it.
Quote from: Carthrat on May 27, 2010, 11:16:35 AMIn particular I really must tell Yulia not to bother casting magic missile, the effect is trivial, blocked by SR a lot, and I don't like the idea of her being, well, noticed by stuff that oneshots her. I don't know how good she is with that bow; it could be viable. However faerie fire is a must on *any* and *every* demon that can turn invisible. She has the skills; gaps in her knowledge can be filled in by others with K:P; it has to be her first action in any such case. Also, shouldn't she spend most of her time in her alternate ball of light form while wandering around? We need a light source, it makes her much harder to hit, and while I suppose she can't shoot things she can still cast spells (and really I still think her ability to shoot must be near-useless, unless the arrows put things to sleep or something? outsider saves lol.) The most important thing she gives is the aura anyway, don't want to compromise that.
She can be in ball form if you guys like; she defaults to her fairy-like form with no guidance. She can also Faerie Fire away as you like, but do note it hits SR so she'll struggle with that. Since she has it and plans to fire it sooner or later, the damage is 1d4+1d6+1d4, with the damages being arrow/lightning/sonic.
QuoteKam has a big stick. This is a gygaxian dungeon. I'm sure he can see where I'm going with this, test every square before stepping on it. I already got burned twice for not doing that and consider myself to have learned a lesson, I'm sure it'll recur. @_@
You're free to do this, but bear in mind it'll slow down your pace and make a little extra noise.
Attention:
I have the next 2 Tuesdays off due to various whims of fate. I have the potential of being able to start earlier if you guys like this weekend, either aiming to end earlier in turn or run longer altogether. Do either of these interest you?
It wouldn't be permanent, but just for the next two sessions.
More time is always good. Or starting earlier if other people can't afford more time.
This is primarily to give Gate/you/Zeph a chance to avoid the sleep cycle wrecking and/or sleepiness to a degree. If all of you want more time I'm okay with that, though.
With work, I generally get home as soon as I can get home. Recently this has been 6-6:30 (1-1.5 hours early) on tuesdays and I'm glad to try hard to do that the next two weeks, but I really can't promise that strongly.
On combat strategy mid-combat, I actually always overthink things so I tend to be slow. It doesn't matter that I've usually decided on a target, I can't usually guess how folks will move before they do. Since my attacks tend to be so position based, a lot often changes on the circumstances. Do I move 10 feet or 15 or 30? Which will set me up to put up a solid wall of denial? I generally try to be fast on these, but really, that sort of stuff is also what I like about combat. I don't mind generally timeboxing it, but equally even when I prepare a move a couple moves ahead of time, it ends up being invalid half the time, so I tend to start each action usually adjusting to who just got killed, or who just got heavily damaged or who just vanished one action beforehand. I dunno where there's a sweet spot between being much faster than I go and having fun picking a strongly tactical mid battle action.
Personally, not really that interested in poking every which route with a stick. It is kind of worthwhile as a full gygaxian dungeon, but I dunno. One of those sub-optimal tactics I take every so often like not wielding a bow. I think we can take the step between and simply make sure we scan thoroughly each new passage before going along it with spot/listen from the whole team. But yeah, kam came through unscathed and knight got bitten repeatedly, so maybe my view isn't cautious enough.
I liked the original pattern as it put a tank on either side and had Adail providing spot/listen stuff in front and Kam doing it in back. I think it was effectively chance that it did go as badly as it did for knight up front. I assumed bad shit was going to come behind us but it never did.
I don't mind a star pattern I suppose, but I think having Mari in the center is more sensible in one. She has less hp than nikki, equal defense, and can then apply her spot capabilities easily in both directions. I think reasonably Adail can only provide invisibility protection in one general direction at a time. I think this pattern strengthens our front and weakens our rear a bit, but I guess kam can reach everywhere anyway so he can quickly tank from any location.
I agree on Yulia, as much as I think its cool and want to encourage her being brave courre, she should try and survive first.
Yeah, I've never been a big fan of martyr spells, but you're probably right. It makes tactical sense. It does have a 100 gp focus (2 gold rings). Not sure what Dune's ruling on that is. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/shieldother.htm Dune?
On healing, I seem to be better off that I thought with about 35 spells remaining. I thought I had used more, but on counting that wasn't the case. I don't know how Adail is going. Practically, we are burning through them fast though. We take damage in pretty much every encounter, often 50 percent or more of at least one player's hp. We don't have a cleric primary and simply didn't bring enough CLW to keep up with this level of getting hurt. We should be good for at most 3-4 more sessions in the abyss, then we'd likely be completely out of healing and struggling along.
And yeah, seconding the don't get killed line. The odds of us getting out of here while hauling a body are not good.
And we totally should've retreated rather than stood there dumbly with the will-o-wisps last session. Not taking notice was an okay idea, but not nearly as good as just not being there for them to change their mind. If we booked it, adail could've followed or kept them occupied in safety.
Quote from: Dracos on May 27, 2010, 07:29:25 PMI liked the original pattern as it put a tank on either side and had Adail providing spot/listen stuff in front and Kam doing it in back. I think it was effectively chance that it did go as badly as it did for knight up front. I assumed bad shit was going to come behind us but it never did.
The spider-mane did come up behind you, which your blindsense did catch. Otherwise you're correct as far as this session went.
QuoteYeah, I've never been a big fan of martyr spells, but you're probably right. It makes tactical sense. It does have a 100 gp focus (2 gold rings). Not sure what Dune's ruling on that is. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/shieldother.htm Dune?
I'm normally very related on material components, but those are above the 1 GP rule and require some foreplanning(Both parties wearing them). So yes, you'd need to procure the material components and deal with getting the rings on them. Not such a big deal out of combat, trickier if you need the spell on someone mid-battle and they don't have it on.
Relevant:
<Dracos> I assume we can't simply just have those in the Abyss for use already?
* THEREISONLYXORN nods. You're well into a dungeon, so no unless it's on your sheet already.
* Dracos admits the tactical sensibility of it, even if he doesn't like the taste of martyr spells at all. The only way you can hit one guy and kill two guys.
<Dracos> Well, no, kam is not already carrying platinum rings of 50 gp worth or higher.
* THEREISONLYXORN thinks Shield Other is good when situationally and intelligently used.
<Dracos> It is, it would've, for instance, been a very wise spell to cast for Mari last session.
<Dracos> It's great tactically when the real tank isn't tanking for whatever reason.
So something to pick up for later.
And dune is right, we did get that payoff from kam being in the back.
On the subject of DM shit, last session there was some dragging, confusion and general ineffectiveness about updating the topic HP pool. Would you guys like a weekly rotation or for me to assign someone to do this? It needs to be done, it's a question of how you wanna do it.
Honestly, it's just a pain to scroll over to the right in mIRC's tiny window, otherwise I'd do it every time.
I'll just c/p it to the left-hand side on gameday and do it.
random thought: You know what would be a cool thing? A per day clw wand. With the lack of a real healer, this might actually be a sensible investment if dune is willing to play ball at some point.
A single CLW wand: 50 charges, 750 gp.
Multiply by x2 to see its actual price of 1500 (obviously an infinite use one is ridiculous/no go).
1500/(25/5) = 7500 gp for a wand that cast cure light wounds 25 times per day every day.
That's a fair number of CLW wands, but we've gone from 1 lasting us a while, to right now burning through about 10-15 charges a session, to likely eventually burning 20-30 charges a session, which means this wouldn't pick up all possible healing... but at the same time would have a super advantage for long journeys away, never truly run out, and help avoid us having to care 5 or 10 CLW wands when we're 1-2 levels higher and looking at wandering through baator for a month hunting for Mari's sister.
Eternal Wands from the MIC are about what you're thinking of, Drac.
Yeah, pretty close. Those are a bit clumsier though. Page 159 for ref.
The same effect would be 10000 for buying 12 CLW 2/day wands at caster level 1, Spell level 1. Clumsy to carry a dozen of them at pathetic use rates. I suppose it might be more valuable though now we'd be talking about the price of 15 CLW wands of 50 charges. Anyhow, something maybe to give thought to looking into, despite the price, since its pretty much replacing an unused character spot.
Alternately you guys can look into expanding you pool of character healing. Yulia has a lot of potential to grow, if you guys desperately want a backup healer, she could take levels in the Healer or Cleric class. If, yknow, she survives.
Yulia becoming a heal tank is welcomed by me at least. :)
Tremendous overthinking below:
I mean the basic bit from my view is that there are longer/more grindy experiences ahead. This is cool and fun and means we have to play the resource game. The reality is though we do not have sufficient heal resources in the party for long ventures. Max right now, with everything healing devoted, we can get like 30 hp worth per day. We can supplement this constantly with money which we've been doing, but that basically makes it 'how much money do we have and how many days of adventuring are we looking for'. We bought a month of food and effectively 5 days of healing. Kind of a pity as it means if a disaster trapped us hunting our way out of the abyss for a fortnight, we'd be crawling on our last legs, unable to handle encounters pretty less than halfway into it.
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Welcome to a mini-feedback session! The last few sessions have been much more combat oriented than usual so I figure this is a good time to peek under the hood. So without further ado:
1. How much do you enjoy combat in Planar Why?
2. How effective are your allies in combat? Why?
3. How well does the group work as a team?
4. What are your strong points in battle? Weak points?
5. What are the team's strong points in battle? Weak points?
6. What are your next 2-3 class levels going to be? Have they changed at all lately and have you been tempted to change your build path at all? Why or why not?
7. How well do you feel you preform in battle? Why?
8. What magical items interest you in the future? Why?
Bonus question: Do you feel the few NPCs you've fought with are helpful and worth the time, as well as taking a bit of the spotlight away from you guys?
As a bonus I'm going to answer these from my perspective. Why not?
1. How much do you enjoy combat in Planar? Why?
It's fun enough to put you guys through all sorts of battles, from epic melees to tenser dungeon crawls. I certainly enjoy it as long as a single fight isn't a complete pushover, unless it was meant to be. Unless it's made a pushover by a really smart or cunning strategy from one of you, then it's cool.
2. How effective are your allies in combat? Why?
Kam's very effective and an optimization level above the rest of the team. Knight's effectiveness varies depending on if she has a mount for charges and mobility. She's generally never deadweight and can swap between weapons as she finds them. Adail's sorta like a project PC; sorta useful but not in his prime yet. Magic Missile makes a good stopgap. He's not ineffective insomuch as not fully developed yet. Mari's getting very good at dicing things up, but durability is always a concern. Moderately effective but egads that durability. Nikkolai's pretty good when he uses his spells well and the fire bloodline probably boosted him back up to useful, as did a resource draining dungeon crawl.
3. How well does the group work as a team?
You guys work decently well as a team. Not perfect but you don't usually hinder each other and often help with flanking, covering and buffing.
4. What are your strong points in battle? Weak points?
Strong point? Keeping the battles flowing and trying to make a variety of combat situations. Most battles feel at least somewhat different which is good.
Weak point? I haven't used any real casters yet. There's at least one on the horizon with the lich bitch(Drac, her name is the Lady of the Green Kirtle for the stat topic, I keep meaning to tell you that), but otherwise not so much. This comes down to me preferring something with a robust SLA selection rather than statting up a full caster, which I find impossibly tedious.
5. What are the team's strong points in battle? Weak points?
Strong points? Buffing and flanking. Weak points? Healing.
6. What are your next 2-3 class levels going to be? Have they changed at all lately and have you been tempted to change your build path at all? Why or why not?
Well, I took a level in Gygaxian Design last level, but I think I'll go to more Narrative Master levels after this. I may dip Sadistic Perv just to mess with Mari and Nikkolai, though!
7. How well do you feel you preform in battle? Why?
Well enough overall.
8. What magical items interest you in the future? Why?
I'm hoping to get my hands on a Grimorie NPC, so I can draw on pre-made characters instead of doing all the work myself. Potions of Sleeplessness help for game nights but are damned expensive and nonmagical soda works almost as well.
Bonus question: Do you feel the few NPCs you've fought with are helpful and worth the time, as well as taking a bit of the spotlight away from you guys?
Eeeeh. There's only 3 notable ones I can think of: Michum, Rogue and Yulia. Michum sucked but this was on purpose. Rogue is very good and was designed as a boss, he's your equal in combat and fought like it. Yulia's a 2 HD courre, she's lucky not to be demonfood.
[/quote]
Quote from: Anastasia on May 29, 2010, 12:04:21 AM
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Welcome to a mini-feedback session! The last few sessions have been much more combat oriented than usual so I figure this is a good time to peek under the hood. So without further ado:
1. How much do you enjoy combat in Planar Why?
A fair bit. I'm playing a combat character, combat is a time to do cool things on the stage. But also Planar combat often covers a wide variety of combat setups. I mean in the last few we've faced demons, robo spider mecha, gigantic fiendish sharks and flying heads from doom while plummeting down a waterfall. There's a lot of flavor there and its nice while usually letting us kick ass.
Quote
2. How effective are your allies in combat? Why?
Effectiveness rank?
Kamvakua|Knight(w/horse)-Mari-Knight(w/o Horse)----Nikkolai-Adail-------Yulia.
Nikkolai could (and is) rising, but still is inexperienced so even when he does cool things, it's rarely feels like his plan to do them. With higher spell levels and more battle practice, he'll be better at it. He's often also not given situations that are that great for mages. Random unplanned encounters with often a variety of environmental concerns.
Adail is a knowingly exotic silly build, much like Eva was, but more survivable. He occassionally does extremely cool and effective things. He can always hit with his magic missile arrays. The will-o-wisp fight was all him. His see invisible has saved us more times than I can count. Truthfully, if he could just flank he'd be much higher, but difficulty doing co-op+low damage dealing+low combat options generally leaves him cool but not very effective outside of very specific circumstances.
Mari's weakpoint is Accuracy, HP, mobility, and both of them are pretty close to being good anyway with levels. Otherwise, she's a solid rogue build with additional wind tricks.
Knight has hp, high ac, highest acc, high damage (sometimes highest damage), and sometimes an awesome flying mount. She also has the ability to swap into any weapon type and instantly be awesome at it instead of just good and cards. She tops the kill count. She also though has a lot of her build invested in something that's frequently and easily not available which hinders her effectiveness.
Quote
3. How well does the group work as a team?
Not sure what that means actually. We survive battles, look after each other, haven't had tremendous get in each others way and generally have a good variety of combat skills that often is supporting. Uh... Team survives battle=>Team has worked well?
Quote
4. What are your strong points in battle? Weak points?
Denial, strength, hp, brutality.
Weak points? Ranged/magical/flying/status effect combat. Rogue/tricksty type. Mental attacks. Stuff that can't be solved by hitting it with a big stick repeatedly. Kam's biggest weak point is generally before battle and stuff that puts in trickery, betrayal, or similar things. We saw that in the curse arc that he's too trusting and doesn't react well when that's stabbed.
Quote
5. What are the team's strong points in battle? Weak points?
We're a wave of stabbity death. We've got good mobility overall, a lot of good detection stuff to make it hard to encounter, aerial and ranged capabilities, can easily setup traps, excellent flanking setups, and a ranged denial pike that makes it dangerous to swarm attack us. We've got a generally high AC across the board, generally putting us at 50 percent or higher dodge rate against most appropriate level encounters.
multibattle restoration is pathetic. Ability to buff is also kinda weak. We've only got a bit of evasion stuff going on and tend to stick together, making AoE blasting encounters very effective at draining us. And just as an out of battle thing, we're super easy to lure off into small groups and attack separately.
Quote
6. What are your next 2-3 class levels going to be? Have they changed at all lately and have you been tempted to change your build path at all? Why or why not?
No. On a personality side, I tend to pick things 4-5 levels in advance. it takes blatant face smashing to make me recognize this is bad. On a reality side, I'm in a hard to enter PrC, looking at several really juicy levels in the next couple. Change? Not gonna happen. On a build side, there really isn't anywhere to go. As a multiclassed barbarian, I have as options:
A)The PrC I'm in now. Which is an awesome PrC with high entry requirements leading into level after level of genuinely advantageous bonuses.
B)Barbarian main, with nothing but shit nearby for eightish levels.
C)Berzerker - Which would boost my damage higher which I've not entirely been going for and endanger the party needlessly.
D)Some other barbarian PrC which doesn't count toward rage. Kind of like a spellcaster taking levels that don't count toward spellcasting.
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7. How well do you feel you preform in battle? Why?
I preforate in battle like nobody else. Oh, perform? Pretty awesome. Combat is Kam's arena. He's a muscle bound brute with high stats and a well designed build that isn't often challenged on his weak points. He's well twinked and he'd be even more dangerous without intentionally played blind spots and a tendancy to rush into harms way.
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8. What magical items interest you in the future? Why?
Fun ones! I always try and keep a short list of ideas at the bottom of my sheet. The pendant of seeing lots of things was actually a super fun one.
With Kam's relatively high stats and good combat capabilities I can generally look and enjoy more exotic flavors without feeling I'm being an idiot.
Currently on the list:
A magical book of learning languages easily!
Upgrading my spiffy boots
Blur/displacement armor :P
Magical War Paint!
Con boosting
More powerful cloak of resistance.
But more generally interested in stylish different things as long as I retain a pretty high safety level in combat (Which I have). A fashionable hat of mental telepathy. A shield that taunts my enemies for me and whistles as the cute rogue. A pocketwatch of instant camp site and tea time. I mean, sure I like items that make me more powerful, who doesn't, but I'd love to see rarer or stylish things to grab. Heck, suggested displacement as I've never ever seen it actually picked up as an item. Almost an excuse to do it, even though it always loses to cloak of resistance in its slot.
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Bonus question: Do you feel the few NPCs you've fought with are helpful and worth the time, as well as taking a bit of the spotlight away from you guys?
I like NPCs. They are an important part of the flavor of the world and keep it from just being us yammering amongs ourselves in different environments. Micham wasn't likable, but he was meant to be. Rogue, well, I've yammered on before and overall think he was a screwup, but hey we all have bad days and you built something that kinda worked out of him.
HEY LISTEN.
Yes, Yulia?
Hey Listen, What about me!
Yeah, I find Yulia amusing. I'm sad Bellaphron didn't get to develop more. I liked that my patron took time out of her day to school me in why you don't fight gods.
Grandma Tam is still the easy favorite.
1. How much do you enjoy combat in Planar Why?
A decent bit. I prefer it when melee is actually an option for me instead of just MM spam constantly, but that's largely me wanting to have him yell things besides Hunting Fang once in awhile. It's fun when quick moving and you're pretty good at keeping at least a mild level of tension going(unless it's hitting the 11:00 mark for me and then no amount of tension is keeping me awake).
2. How effective are your allies in combat? Why?
Thankfully very, since there's still not much I can do usually! Kam and Knight splatter shit, as does Mari if she can set up for it. I still want some item or ability to let me threaten just a single square, on that note. Adail has no fear of moving into position provoking any AoOs the baddies want to take to let Mari go Sushi Chef on something. Nikki...well, he's kinda in the middle of trying to go from Support Mage to Damage Mage, so it's hard to comment on his effectiveness just this moment. Owns swarms at least!
3. How well does the group work as a team?
Well enough, I think. Not fantastic, but about as well as online coordination is going to happen without bogging things down immensely.
4. What are your strong points in battle? Weak points?
Strong: AC, Saves, Resistances. Adail still doesn't really die or even get hurt much ever.
Weak: Concrete durability, damage, options. Get past the above defenses and he crumples quick. See what the Hezrou managed a couple sessions ago. Even with his uber Fort and Will saves, effects that give half damage on those even on a successful save are still really damn dangerous. Also his best damage is still MAGIC FUCKING MISSILE. And I have all of the options of a 3rd level cleric in a 10th level game. Yeah.
5. What are the team's strong points in battle? Weak points?
Strong: Melee dominance. Kam and Knight are terrors, Mari has insane damage when set up and if Adail can keep someone's melee attention on him, he can mock them all day long. Nik's haste spell turns this from simply great to downright hilarious in one action.
Weak: Honestly, anyone who can keep us at range. Knight's got her bow and Adail can MM spam but mostly we've got to rely on Nik for a range game. He's hardly bad at it, but he's still just one dude. Also, distinct lack of healing.
6. What are your next 2-3 class levels going to be? Have they changed at all lately and have you been tempted to change your build path at all? Why or why not?
Sacred Fist for the next 2, no questions. May honestly look into a dip for Mettle somewhere after that though. As for build change...frankly, the only thing I could do with that is make him a full cleric instead of doing the Sacred Fist bit, but that would nuke my saves and AC and only gain me two more caster levels. The racial HD and LA prevent me from ever being a useful caster, so there's honestly little incentive to even consider that route.
7. How well do you feel you preform in battle? Why?
See Invis, MM and "lolno" are basically my tricks. They work well enough, if taking forever. Still kinda suck in battle for now, will change in two more levels, we've been over this several times.
8. What magical items interest you in the future? Why?
Anything that lets me do more with the limited magic I have is good, especially healing or supporting spells. Offensive spells with Adail are a wash due to the fact that I'll always be about 3 spell levels behind a full caster. I wouldn't say no to more mundane crap like bracers of armor or the like either, of course.
Also, I will note something I don't think I've brought up before. I have a great fondness for things like Set Items(from the MIC) or Legacy Items(ala Weapons of Legacy), so anything like that showing up would likely make me ^_^. And anything homebrew and unique is usually >>> anything from a book, even if it's less useful overall. Plays to my inner GM, I suppose.
Bonus question: Do you feel the few NPCs you've fought with are helpful and worth the time, as well as taking a bit of the spotlight away from you guys?
Don't feel they've taken the spotlight ever, to be frank. Rogue was badass while with us, but hardly overshadowed the PCs who had the same niche. Yulia is wonderful but really really needs to keep her head down better. Michum was barely memorable for me, I suppose. Generic jackass with a neat crossbow. Yeah, the NPCs are fine in general and don't detract from things at all, IMO.
I've almost never seen Legacy, Relic, or Set Items used in a game at all. Kind of a pity as thematic items are fun and I tend to keep things forever anyway.
1. All I can really say is that fighting on foot in the abyss is only slightly more fun than it was on the plane of earth. My actions are usually quite straightforward and only take me a few moments to write, so honestly most of combat is just waiting for me; I have to admit the lack of options I have presently means I kinda switch off. I'm missing playing a caster, on some levels.
It must be said that the main challenge in this game is consistently combat, and it's usually party vs. encounter combat. There's very little in the way of espionage or a need to engage in various tricks or cunning plans. It's telling that we're talking about combat and not the game in general, really.
2. Ze others, hrn.
Kam (Lightning Bruiser! (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LightningBruiser)) has utterly insane zoning and movement ability. When he activates travel devotion he can effectively teleport around the battlefield and shut down any kind of enemy movement. Very little can stand up (haha!) to +17 trip checks. Likewise, his defences are very tough to beat as well- if enemies can even hit him. Good HP, DR, saves, and the zoning again. I believe he has no real weaknesses not shared by the rest of the party at this point; he's actually stronger vs. magical attacks than myself, Nikki, or Mari, and he's so fast that range is not much of advantage over him. I will admit this is a source of some frustration to me for the following reasons: firstly, I could've played a character on that level of optimization as well, and would have, had I know others would be. Secondly, I feel his power overshadows others in such fights; basically, in most scenarios, he will have the most impact in any given fight.
Mari (Fragile Speedster! (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FragileSpeedster)) can deal some harsh damage, but she has trouble getting full attacks off before enemies turn on her (low HP, lowish AC, lowish to-hit). We keep getting into fights but her abilities (stealth, shapechanging, stabbing people in the back) are not really able to shine in straight combat beyond the occasional buzzsaw gutting, which required both luck and timing. I think this is slightly unfair to her, since the main challenge of the game seems to be these fights.
Adail's (Stone Wall (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StoneWall)... um... Fragile Speedster (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Fragile%20Speedster)... somehow...) defenses are through the roof, but he lacks an offensive dynamo. Certain attacks really hurt him too (unholy blight, etc.) We really do want the enemy to attack him as much as possible, but it's trouble for him to actually be intimidating enough, I feel. His utility in the form of see invis and good devotion are highly prized.
Nikkolai's a sorc (defying easy fighter-game-style troping), and without some ability to do rules hax it can be very hard to play a blaster mage, especially in a planar environment where half our foes have SR and resistance to everything but like one completely unguessable element. He can always contribute by means of haste and tentacles, but the former, at least, is a terribly boring spell to cast; it makes everyone cooler but the mage and we can't really reciprocate on that, and it's an option that's so good that other ones seem tame by comparison. I often feel his spells need a bit more power.
3. Well... we're not dead yet? I don't actually think there's been that much teamwork, per se. Our abilities don't have that much inherent synergy beyond the obvious (flanking, whee).
4. I am very tough, though not the toughest, and when I manage to close with an enemy I'm usually in good shape. But I am very slow on foot and do not often get a chance to do so. On foot I lack useful tricks or particularly harsh abilities to throw at my enemies.
On a mount obviously these weaknesses just go away and I'm as strong as anyone around really. I hesitate to call it a 'weakness' as such, but AoE effects would hit both me and any mount I have, so I fear them (though not really fireballs and such themselves, even though my reflex is tiny I have plenty of HP.). I'm extremely reliant on having one to the point where I find adventuring without one pretty painful, and I'm beginning to see the perks of Paladin mounts (even if they die, you get them back shortly!). Basically, when I have one of these I'm strong enough and able to ride around at high speeds to crush things (it helps to basically be two characters then), but if it dies I'm pretty fucked for a while.
5. We have trouble recovering after a fight. In one we're reliant on Kam's ability to stuff enemies reaching us whilst we slowly grind away at those who do get close. Normally, Nikkolai or myself would target distant opponents; he can fireball/tentacle them and were I mounted I could close obnoxiously quickly. One thing we're not so hot at is outright mezzing enemies into total helplessness. Very hard for us to kill someone before they can get an action off.
Some of the party has very high saves in one field or another (hi Adail), they can ignore most harsh spells and give us an out vs. certain casters.
6. Dunno. Probably another level in cavalier. Maybe a level in sorc and occult slayer levels later. Dunno! I've considered ditching the mounted thing and asking to rebuild as a duskblade, but it may undermine the effects cards give me.
7. See 4, really. I perform basically as I expected to.
8. Items? Well, if an awesome mount is an item, then one of them, preferably a more durable one this time! A card as a mount could be neat, as could one of those statue things that turns into a creature (and can be used again if it's slain, which is great. Obviously I'm looking for more Cards in general, I hope they have a few more abilities that I can use actively, rather than reactively (Gem and Talons are used against specific threats, for example, but I can't usually parley them into a bigger advantage. And Star eating up a standard action makes her unfeasible in most fights...) If I'm going to spend a lot of the game on foot, and I have so far, then... my first thought was 'overcome my limitations', possibly by means of something similar to what Nikki has (i.e. that anklet of translocation.)
And obviously after that sort of thing, I'm looking at interesting weapons and armour. If I'm wearing full-plate that's so heavy it slows me down (there are youtube vidoes that dispute it does any such thing!) then by god it better provide some pretty awesome defenses. Weapons that cast spells or have unique effects, always a favorite over the boring-if-effective SRD stuff.
NPCs: Well, I can't say I'm all that fond of Yulia, either IC or OOC. I'm only using her for her bo- I mean, abilities! Michum was one of the more believable characters so far by virtue of behaving in a way I expect ordinary people to. Rogue behaved pretty cluelessly and I'm sure we're going to run into conflict with each other again, but I do kinda look forward to it since he's likely a foil to me, and he needs onee-sama style reeducation. I'm still wondering if he'd either revert to his old self if I absorbed him or not. Don't think so, Talons may have been a special case. I didn't speak with that .. aasimar, I think it was, in stratusberg, but I think I liked her, too.
The NPCs I like the most are those with, well, clear reasons to act the way they do. I'll admit I like dealing with people who have concerns rooted in reality (as opposed to fiends/angels) but it's not like I'm actually AGAINST infernal villains, they can be pretty fun to fight! I think the best villains are those we can emphasize with on some level- the kind who, if were in their shoes, we can see why they did what they did- and the best friends are those whom we can disagree with somewhat. Might be good to keep it in mind for NPC design.
I think the reason ones like Kikula and Rogue had troubled receptions was because they didn't have motivations/concerns that justified their actions, even after we tried to think about it as PCs. Certainly, it's silly for us to know everything, but sometimes they way they act just doesn't add up unless you really twist it. I still don't know how Rogue intuited what I was doing, thus prompting that hostility. Kikula surely couldn't have actually thought a dude like Kam would just change sides because.. what, exactly? I dunno what carrot they had. <_<
1. How much do you enjoy combat in Planar Why?
To be honest, my enjoyment is all over the place and is based on an encounter to encounter basis. I am becoming painfully aware that unless you have more knowledge of rules hax (as Rat put it), it's hard to be an effective battle caster, at least as far as direct damage goes. Obviously, I enjoy combat where I actually contribute and kill things. It's been kind of lame to only be able to contribute as a buffer.
Putting that aside, I will say that I enjoy epic battles, even if I'm not always useful in them. Take the Moby Dick-ish battle we had plummeting over the waterfall a few sessions ago. That was awesome and enjoyable.
2. How effective are your allies in combat? Why?
Kam is just an absolute beast in damage. My god, it feels like he could one-shot the Lich all by himself if the dice favored him. His ability to be just about anywhere he wants to be in order to make himself known is a cherished and vital part of our melee party.
Knight's biggest glaring weakness is her mount build. With it, she's awesome as hell. Without it, she doesn't bring the pain, if you know what I mean. I feel that she might better better served to tweak her build to favor hand-to-hand combat and ditch the mounted combat. It's not all that often that she'll have a chance to use it, in my opinion.
Mari can slice and dice with the best of them. Her shapeshifting could see some epic usage, when the time comes for such things to be needed. My only problem is (and has been) her defense. I am in almost constant fear that some monster will get in a lucky blow and that will be all she wrote. I really want to see her defense upped somehow, some way.
Adail has hits and misses in combat. I know that he won't be truly awesome until he has access to spells found at higher levels, but it's just so odd to see a mousey looking turtle. High in defense, low in offense.
3. How well does the group work as a team?
I feel we work well as a team, since we all try our hardest to coordinate our attacks so that there is a sort of synergy that all of us can take advantage of. I do feel that we need to work out something where we are all not quite so bunched together. Some enterprising enemy can and will eventually take advantage of the fact that we are essentially using the infantry square defense. With enough brute force, you can smash right through it.
4. What are your strong points in battle? Weak points?
Buffing is obviously my strong point. Haste is awesome as is Resist Energy, among other spells I have.
My weak points are learning how to use spells effectively, knowing which spells to use in what situation, and having a rather small repotoire of battle spells that can hurt an enemy if I encounter SR or immunity.
5. What are the team's strong points in battle? Weak points?
Our strong points are certainly overwhelming damage in the span of a single turn if the dice are favorable. we try to cover each other's weaknesses and boost each other's strengths.
Our weak points seem to be our overall defense and our health restoration/ability restorations in between battles. If three battles occur in rapid succession...with little to no chance to heal or take stock of ourselves, we're definitely going to be in big trouble.
6. What are your next 2-3 class levels going to be? Have they changed at all lately and have you been tempted to change your build path at all? Why or why not?
I have been sorely, sorely tempted to just go straight Sorc. I appreciate Merc's help and all when I was first starting out, but i feel that it's brought me more headache than aid. A caster class is hard enough to play for a first character. Adding all of this extra stuff like metamagic and Paragon just....blah.
I'm just going to keep leveling Sorc and taking a fire oriented path, simply because i like the feel of it flavorwise and because I like to see things burn.
7. How well do you feel you preform in battle? Why?
Nikk is kinda hit and miss. Sometimes battle is over before I even have a chance to cast something other than a buff. Other times, like the previous session, he rules. Especially when he encounters enemies with little to no SR. That's when he goes all MELTYFACE on y'all.
I feel that he's improved greatly, but he still has a ways to go.
8. What magical items interest you in the future? Why?
The One Ring might be nice.
I also would like to find something that helps me overcome SR and thus, make me more useful.
Bonus question: Do you feel the few NPCs you've fought with are helpful and worth the time, as well as taking a bit of the spotlight away from you guys?
The only NPCs I deem noteworthy are Michum, Tam, and Yulia. Of the three, Tam is most awesome and I want to mess with her more.
Yulia I don't really find annoying. Once or twice I've only wished to squash her underfoot.
The only NPC I really want to know more about and hope to see more of is Balinbomb. Since he's essentially going to be my new master, I'd like to know more about him.
By the way, those anklets of translocation are actually really useful! Both myself and Mari can get use out of them, since they can shift you ten feet to FA- or you can FA, then shift away so they can't FA you back! I suppose speedboots are also tempting for the foot slot, but yeah, I really want to pick some of them up at the moment.
Quote from: Anastasia on May 27, 2010, 01:33:59 PM
Attention:
I have the next 2 Tuesdays off due to various whims of fate. I have the potential of being able to start earlier if you guys like this weekend, either aiming to end earlier in turn or run longer altogether. Do either of these interest you?
It wouldn't be permanent, but just for the next two sessions.
Hmm. Running late this coming session is fine with me. I work from 2-9, otherwise I'd suggest that we start earlier. Perhaps next tuesday we can start earlier?
Quote from: Zephyrus on May 30, 2010, 11:50:51 PM
Quote from: Anastasia on May 27, 2010, 01:33:59 PM
Attention:
I have the next 2 Tuesdays off due to various whims of fate. I have the potential of being able to start earlier if you guys like this weekend, either aiming to end earlier in turn or run longer altogether. Do either of these interest you?
It wouldn't be permanent, but just for the next two sessions.
Hmm. Running late this coming session is fine with me. I work from 2-9, otherwise I'd suggest that we start earlier. Perhaps next tuesday we can start earlier?
Running late is usually a no-go for me. I start to drop off around 11ish my time on weekdays. Starting an hour earlier I could do, but I'd definately want to stop at 11 at the latest then.
Who mentioned running later than usual? That'd be insane. I already go to bed three hours before I have to get up for work.
I could swing starting an hour earlier, sure. Will endeavor to be around and conscious in the vicinity of 9PM just in case Drac manages to get home ahead of his usual time.
EDIT: Ah, I see Zeph mentions not being able to show up earlier this week? Sadness.
Quote from: Carthrat on May 30, 2010, 10:50:19 AM
By the way, those anklets of translocation are actually really useful! Both myself and Mari can get use out of them, since they can shift you ten feet to FA- or you can FA, then shift away so they can't FA you back! I suppose speedboots are also tempting for the foot slot, but yeah, I really want to pick some of them up at the moment.
Important: Bracelets of Translocation are CHEAP.
1,400 gp
x2 for taking no space as an auxilary enchantment on another item.
2800.
add on top of boots of striding and springing
7200 gp.
Hardly impossible going by RAW.
Getting someone to make something like that though on the road might be harder, but at the same time, its the planes. Exotic magical combinations that don't show up regularly are more likely here.
I'm up for whenever on the day, an hour later or earlier makes no real difference to me. Just let me know.
Additionally, due to perils of temping + doing some freelance coding, my schedule may soon become dramatically more flexible. Watch this space?
1. How much do you enjoy combat in Planar? Why?
I added the missing question mark because that's just my style. Anyway, combat is generally fun by virtue of the situations and enemies we encounter, which are nicely varied. I'm not sure I find combat in traditional gaming intrinsically fun; it's really dependent on what we're up against, and you're good at mixing that up.
2. How effective are your allies in combat? Why?
Everyone has their niche. Knight needs a new mount, though. Robot unicorn, Rat, do it! Live the dream!
3. How well does the group work as a team?
I think we coordinate well enough. Not all our skillsets are actually team-oriented, though. Actually, most of them aren't! We don't have a lot in the way of support abilities. Adail and Haste, really. This means teamwork is somewhat limited to deciding which enemy to focus on and giving each other flanking bonuses and the like.
4. What are your strong points in battle? Weak points?
Strong: damage. Weak: everything else! Damage is reliant on being in close proximity to an enemy and having some way to get sneak attacks (which generally means having an ally helping me out). Being in close proximity long enough to get in a full attack is rough since Mari is both squishy and not very evasive. She's pretty scary when everything works out, but it's both dangerous for her to do so and rather situational when it does. I guess the former's not wholly a bad thing as far as generating tension goes, of course. It wouldn't be much fun if everything was safe.
5. What are the team's strong points in battle? Weak points?
Strong: damage! We're pretty good at killing things. In certain situations. Anything that can fly or safely pick us apart at range is likely to be a problem.
6. What are your next 2-3 class levels going to be? Have they changed at all lately and have you been tempted to change your build path at all? Why or why not?
Going to jump into the PrC at some point, at least for style points. Probably level 12. Will have to drop next level on the air bloodline to continue receiving benefits from that (and one of those is more Con. Mari always wants more HP!) Since the PrC requires two new feats, I figure I can retrain something for that at level 12 and put the new level 12 feat into the other. Minimizes the impact on my offense, since I'm not sure how far into the PrC I'll accrue the most notable combat benefits and I don't really have any feats to retrain outside of those that are vital to my attack rolls (it will pretty much have to be one of the TWF feats that goes. Unless I can trade out that silly axe proficiency feat that got written into my brain).
7. How well do you feel you perform in battle? Why?
How does Mari perform? Brother, lemme tell you! She's--oh, in battle. Well, that depends. If I can get the full slice 'n' dice off, probably something dies horribly, but even that has trouble dealing with decent AC. My attack rolls are just okay, and more than once I've had a complete full attack whiff. On the whole I'd say fairly average. Which doesn't really bother me--I didn't set out to make a twinktastic combat monster and wouldn't have the knowledge to do so anyway. (Also, I fixed the typo again because I can't not do that when I see one.)
8. What magical items interest you in the future? Why?
I don't really have enough knowledge of these to have an answer. Anything that makes it easier for Mari to safely get in/out of melee range is nice, I guess.
Bonus question: Do you feel the few NPCs you've fought with are helpful and worth the time, as well as taking a bit of the spotlight away from you guys?
I don't really feel like they've ever hogged the spotlight. They're a means of interacting with the game world and maintaining a connection to it. Five PCs is a lot to keep track of as is, so there probably shouldn't be more than a couple NPCs around, just to minimize slowdown in a fight, but I don't mind having an ally or two. Rogue was a decent extra hand for the couple fights he was around for. Yulia's mostly comedy value, honestly. This isn't a bad thing.
It was asked when I was going to reply to these. The answer was : When they're all in. Since the last one got in just before game time, I'll do this tomorrow.
Starting feedback. I'm skipping Drac's for the moment due to obvious reasons. If I don't give you much it doesn't mean I'm ungrateful, but I don't have anything relevant to say. Some things stand on their own, y'know?
Gate:
QuoteWeak: Honestly, anyone who can keep us at range. Knight's got her bow and Adail can MM spam but mostly we've got to rely on Nik for a range game. He's hardly bad at it, but he's still just one dude. Also, distinct lack of healing.
You guys do have both of these as serious weak points, yes. I do think addressing these is a concern, though Nikkolai's new focus will help a lot. As fliers become more common, you're going to have more headaches on this front.
QuoteAlso, I will note something I don't think I've brought up before. I have a great fondness for things like Set Items(from the MIC) or Legacy Items(ala Weapons of Legacy), so anything like that showing up would likely make me ^_^. And anything homebrew and unique is usually >>> anything from a book, even if it's less useful overall. Plays to my inner GM, I suppose.
I've never used those much, but this motivated me to take a look. I got some ideas, thanks. <_<
Ratticus:
QuoteIt must be said that the main challenge in this game is consistently combat, and it's usually party vs. encounter combat. There's very little in the way of espionage or a need to engage in various tricks or cunning plans. It's telling that we're talking about combat and not the game in general, really.
I don't agree totally with you, but you're not entirely wrong. There is a fair bit of combat, but on the other hand, I don't design situations that scream: 'You have to out-think this!'. Instead, I prefer giving you situations and seeing how you guys choose to resolve them. Some have obvious answers, some don't. As for espionage, dunno about that, we'll see how that one works out in the future.
QuoteThe NPCs I like the most are those with, well, clear reasons to act the way they do. I'll admit I like dealing with people who have concerns rooted in reality (as opposed to fiends/angels) but it's not like I'm actually AGAINST infernal villains, they can be pretty fun to fight! I think the best villains are those we can emphasize with on some level- the kind who, if were in their shoes, we can see why they did what they did- and the best friends are those whom we can disagree with somewhat. Might be good to keep it in mind for NPC design.
The catch here is the setting, really. So many beings have concerns that are alien to a normal mindset, such as pure alignment, an element or what have you. For example, the Solamith could have used an SLA to escape instead of staying, but it's desire to hurt, kill and torment made it stay to try and do just that. Being relatively normal may make -you- guys the odd ones out on the Planes, y'know?
That said? Yeah, sometimes NPCs do things for stupid reasons or out of fear, panic or stupidity. Nothing wrong with this, it's often the most human thing about them. <_< Kikula operated mostly off of viciousness and fear, trying to torment Kamvakua and make him submit to Ogremoch. Why? Because he was terrified of the punishment he would receive if he didn't.
Zeph:
QuoteTo be honest, my enjoyment is all over the place and is based on an encounter to encounter basis. I am becoming painfully aware that unless you have more knowledge of rules hax (as Rat put it), it's hard to be an effective battle caster, at least as far as direct damage goes. Obviously, I enjoy combat where I actually contribute and kill things. It's been kind of lame to only be able to contribute as a buffer.
You're learning, which is part of the game. Fire Bloodline did you a lot of favors, since it gives you direct, useful damage at any time. Past that..eeeh. The buffing situation is mostly because of the party makeup, it's a tough problem. You want to be a star, but being support with Haste is so sickeningly good that it's hard to ignore. Tough situation, that.
QuoteI have been sorely, sorely tempted to just go straight Sorc. I appreciate Merc's help and all when I was first starting out, but i feel that it's brought me more headache than aid. A caster class is hard enough to play for a first character. Adding all of this extra stuff like metamagic and Paragon just....blah.
Fair enough. There is one PrC that would fit you really well(Elemental Savant from the Complete Arcane), but straight sorcerer is fine too. Just focus on the magic. As a followup, what spells are you looking at to learn next level?
Cid:
QuoteGoing to jump into the PrC at some point, at least for style points. Probably level 12. Will have to drop next level on the air bloodline to continue receiving benefits from that (and one of those is more Con. Mari always wants more HP!) Since the PrC requires two new feats, I figure I can retrain something for that at level 12 and put the new level 12 feat into the other. Minimizes the impact on my offense, since I'm not sure how far into the PrC I'll accrue the most notable combat benefits and I don't really have any feats to retrain outside of those that are vital to my attack rolls (it will pretty much have to be one of the TWF feats that goes. Unless I can trade out that silly axe proficiency feat that got written into my brain).
The axe feat is a bonus feat so it can't be retrained.
As for the PrC, I'll cut down the entry feat requirements since those are a bit too steep for what's intended here. Do bear that in mind when you level up.
QuoteHow does Mari perform? Brother, lemme tell you! She's--oh, in battle. Well, that depends. If I can get the full slice 'n' dice off, probably something dies horribly, but even that has trouble dealing with decent AC. My attack rolls are just okay, and more than once I've had a complete full attack whiff. On the whole I'd say fairly average. Which doesn't really bother me--I didn't set out to make a twinktastic combat monster and wouldn't have the knowledge to do so anyway. (Also, I fixed the typo again because I can't not do that when I see one.)
Oh yeah, I figure Mari's the sort to hop on and ride it like the win-oh wait, sorry. Battle, right. Ironically if you can full SA+haste you have highest damage output of the group. In theory. Emphasis on theory.
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Your night's rest passes without incident. Restore HP via resting, restore resources, update party status topic. Any healing should be done by Adail in #elysium(Ask me or Rat for ops if you need them), posted here and then the topic in #elysium shall be updated.
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Knight, you got lucky and nothing of note happens to you.
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Mari, on checking over your things in the morning, you find a rolled up sheet of parchment in your pocket that you're absolutely certain wasn't there before.
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Nikkolai, roll a will save and post the results here.
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Adail, you seem to be getting the sniffles over night. Sneezy, sniffly and generally feeling like a cold's settling in.
Mystery scroll? How can I not open that up and read it? Let's go!
The parchment is written in carefully inked notes, but as if it was written with a shaking hand, ruining the effort.
...to summon the wailing sisters, soil from the 1st and 36th layer of the Abyss is essential. The symbology of the soil allows the ghosts to sojourn back to the material world, at least so far as your command circle... two must be coerced or forced into service. Due to their combined will coercion is far more difficult than...burnt offerings of musteval Guardinals are preferred, though defaced idols of the eladrin rulers of the Court of the Stars may find some favor, as well as any demon's fles....assassination, while Ami prefers...
- A series of excerpts from chapter XXXVI of the Hragd Sayls.
As scouts continues to explore the under-hollows, reports of various landmarks filtered back. Of interest, one appeared to be a memorial tombstone. Interestingly, a magical item was found on it. It appears to be a tarot card of some manner, the witches are working to try and decipher it. Curiously, it seems nigh indestructible, but the art on it appears maddeningly depressed. As if the lady on it as as tormented as a petitioner here.
- An excerpt from the recovered travel logs of Warren the Twicebold, King of Fools.
Name: Adail Levif
Former race: Musteval
Current disposition: Reanimated undeath.
Training: Hand to hand combat, mobile combat, fire, dark rites.
Threat level: Moderate.
- From the notes of the Celestial Scribes of the Holy Mountain, writing in the Book of the Fallen.
Today's studies: Mr Doe continues to show little interest in the outside world. Only his fantasies carry any weight with him, no matter the stimulus provided. I will recommend that he be committed indefinitely, as I foresee no progress. As both magic and alchemical means have failed to restore his mind, it is the only mercy we can provide. Not that he minds: he learned a new spell today, or so he claims. The demons in his mind will surely fall to this new cone of fire.
- Log 4950.39, Sanary Institute for the Shattered Mind.
<Cidward> roll 1d20+13 K:P, can Mari makes heads or tails of anything here?
* Nyarlahatbot --> "Cidward rolls 1d20+13 K:P, can Mari makes heads or tails of anything here? and gets 31."12 [1d20=18]
<Cidward> Most likely!
<Cidward> I shoulda nicked first, but eh.
The Hragd Sayls is a legendary book of the Ice Giants, said to have been complied by an Ice Giant sorcerer. It lists every demon in the Abyss, or so it claims.
The Celestial Scribes of the Holy Mountain are an order of monkly archons, recording information from all across the planes. In particular, the Book of the Fallen is a notation of each and every fallen Celestial.
The Sanary Institute is a mental hospital within Arcadia. It is said that most illnesses can be cured there between magic and alchemical cures.
I am curious
Do we have a prime material plane, or many prime material planes?
...
I missed some serious shit Tuesday. I'm sorry I wasn't around to help out, but it couldn't be helped as I'll explain in IRC.
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Dune, here's my roll
10:02 @Knight • If only we knew which way was 'out'
10:02 Zephyrus • Knight, rolling will save. Witness for me!
10:03 Zephyrus • roll 1d20+11
10:03 +Nyarlahatbot › --> "Zephyrus rolls 1d20+11 and gets 30." [1d20=19]
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Also, going to start perusing the logs and read the board to catch up.
Quote from: Carthrat on June 03, 2010, 07:52:57 AM
I am curious
Do we have a prime material plane, or many prime material planes?
I haven't thought about it much, but my default assumption is many. EDIT: It would have to be many, I've mentioned powers from like 3 or 4 worlds already.
Nikkolai has bad dreams that night. He dreams of miserable agonies, but his mind is stronger. He refuses to remember them, slipping safer into the deeper reaches of dreamland.
(No negative effect.)
Okay, Kam's likely out of commission for at least one session if not more, so I'm going to have Drac roll up a temporary PC that may join you guys. It's not really fair to have someone sit out 2-3 sessions when thegame runs once a week, so we'll see what we can do. Since you're smack in the Abyss, it's not going to a bar and getting help, but we'll see how it shakes out.
Any last minute questions, healing or prep issues to take care of, guys?
Not personally. Knight and Nik are still missing 20ish HP, though, dunno if they want to do something about that. I don't think the HP tally was updated with the night's healing into account, though, so maybe that heals up a good chunk of what they're missing.
Could one of you check #elysium's logs from last sessions and confirm or deny this?
Renamed the resting grounds since it's damned accurate.
VICTORY! You survived the Abyss!
1. Big loot post tomorrow, I'll sort it out after my eye doctor thing.
2. Yes, the lich bitch's phylactery is in there. More info on that with loot.
3. You guys are all levelling up. Don't start until I post it's okay to, wanna sort other things out.
4. You guys can rest in Air/get appraisals/spend some downtime leveling and healing.
Loot post is up! As for levelling, find me on IRC and declare what class you're taking and roll HD with me around.
Drac, hold off on levelling until we have your resurrection shit in order.
Yulia's level up:
Options, feel free to vote on which you prefer for her:
Rogue: Standard, gives her sneak attack and EVASION to avoid problems. Not very rewarding overall, but evasion is really nice for her.
Cleric: Focus on healing, healing, healing, healing! Turns her into the start of a repair-bot-courre thingy. This can be the most optimized of the choices if I cheese it up.
Fighter: Get HP, get feat, get out of the way and fire lots of arrows. Plain but sorta works.
Suggestions/comments?
Pick what you want, man, I don't wanna dictate no NPC growth unless I own that NPC. <_<
Well, she's a young and impressionable courre so I'm giving you guys a chance to influence her before she starts her career!
Yulia hopefully gets more than one level, surviving a major adventure with characters 8-10 levels higher than her.
I simply vote cleric. We need one if you want to run us through long dungeons anyway.
I could double-level her if you guys really wanted, that is a valid point you've made. She even contributed every so slightly. <_<
I mentioned to you in PM awhile ago that Adail would have offered to teach her either martial arts or clerical magic or something during those long night watches anyway. So leveling as cleric would kinda make sense IC?
Eh, cleric it is then.
I'd encourage as many levels as you think are reasonable. In fairness, a single blow right now would likely kill her. Our enemies last adventure dished out 60 hp AoE effects. Additionally low level healing magics aren't really adding much at all, thus Adail's challenge filling that role. Either way, having her able to fly around and not have us be so worried that a single poke will take her past -10 would be nice.
Quote from: Anastasia on June 09, 2010, 01:23:14 PM
Loot post is up! As for levelling, find me on IRC and declare what class you're taking and roll HD with me around.
Drac, hold off on levelling until we have your resurrection shit in order.
Sadness. Well we know where we're going. Really wish one of us (self included) had the presence of mind to recognize kam's hand as his hand and not another death trap.
Anyhow, it seems like I'll be raised, then we'll travel somewhere where I can pick something up. Then I guess I level then?
Knight I'll probably need to borrow a sword.
I'll vote cleric as well. We really need some extra healing options, methinks.
If I get a mount, I can switch to using my lance for a while and loan you my sword. Dependant on if I change my build or not.
Yulia is now a favored soul 3 specializing in healing.CLW from her is 1d8+5 and lesser vigor restores 3 HP per round while cast.
Was looking over my spell list and just concluding it feels so rarely I can really use them effectively, aside from just putting cure and restoration spells on hand. Was going to ask for opinions here (and still interested in any who care), but starting to lean toward a different route. Maybe I'm just fiddling though.
So... kinda thinking of retraining Vexing Flanker.
Vexing Flanker - Positive: +4 when flanking is awesome. Negative: +2 is still good and it's really only come up twice so far. It doesn't really have any effect outside of that specialized case.
Battle Blessing - Provided Dune would rule that Paladin and CoG are effectively the same for its req, it'd actually make a way for me to cast spells and it not be a costly action. I could toss cure lights as part of moves to help keep me standing or bull strength for added hit and dam, or splendor for higher saves or smite. Downside, I have 4 spells total of an 8 max. As a feat it makes a class feature usable, but doesn't leave much to use. Maybe it'd be better to keep sticking backup support stuff in there for after battle.
or sort of pondering Armor Spec: +2 DR/-. Would bring me to 4 DR/- which is pretty beefy. Downside is Kam doesn't fall from number of hits. He falls from gigantic blows that do half or more of his max hp in a single action and usually from magical bypass DR/- stuff anyway. We do though run into folks that nip though.
Thoughts/opiines from party?
Just take toughness, +1 HP per hit die will do you more good with the abuse you take. <_<
Kinda depressing. I already have more hp than the rest of the party and even ignoring god-smite session Kam kinda gets targeted by everything and takes 2+ points of damage for every 1 point that our other tank takes. If toughess and its 9 extra hp over my 121 (or 141 while raging) is really saving my life well... I suppose more hp is never bad, but its just seems more of an incentive to be the opening target for every attack in actual combat.
bleh. Now look, I actually looked at it.
Damage taken by Kam to date: 1826.
Damage taken by the entire rest of the party to date: 1617
Hey now, a third of that is from your god smacking you around!
Well yeah. Some of it is the situation working against you. Big meaty target gets attention, you know? This isn't strictly intentional so much as the situations just resolving that way.
Yeah, I wouldn't could the Gwyn damage in a serious analysis, that was essentially meaningless.
warn: whiny post. :P
Removing Gwyn puts it at
1200ish
1600ish.
Still an o_o bit.
Anyhow. Nominally don't mind but just get a bit petulant when it seems like I'm encouraged to try and take tiny steps to improve survivability in context of an already superior survivability to the point its whined about every feedback cycle. The problem is more inherent in a combination of Biggest Target + Protect the Others playstyle. I can toss on hp and hp, but really it feels like its ignoring that Kam regularly takes hits that would instantly kill the other party members already, often as openers or just as a result of taking on the primary dangerous enemy combined with wild dice like. There's of course an easy way to survive. Just stand back and let knight go take the damage instead. Pick off the enemies after the fact. Just stop playing the damage sponge game. It's kind of silly when Kam is so frequent to take it that it makes the whole martyr set of spells he's automatically decked out with pointless because he never has to really worry about others being targeted much in the first place.
Just a bit frustrating to shift a discussion from 'hum, what would be more fun to play with' to 'how do I act as an even larger hp tank as enemies attack with even higher damage thresholds'. Sorry I got petulant about it but I when I'm poked with 'get toughness' while already topping the hp set and dying anyway, I really can't help it. I yeah, I could really picture the side effect if I went and got toughness and some con boosters and next feedback its 'oh and kam totally owns us all on hp too'. *sighs*
the short of it is I don't mind being the primary target as much as I mind being told that I should optimize being an hp tank even further to be more of one.
So Drac, you've DMed before, right? You know prepped up encounters, analyzed the party to figure out what they can handle. You figure out what makes a good challenge for the party and various PCs, right? So why don't you ask yourself: If you're constantly facing these sort of threats, what does it say exactly?
:(. I guess its more desired to argue it. I don't really see the relevance though toward continued char-op toward durability.
It means that they provide a suitably exciting challenge. Of course, I'd likely throw similar things at it, but we also have different styles. I'd silently have elimated the explode on death thing without batting an eye noticing the the party wasn't in a good state to survive it. You don't roll that way. Which is fine, you're DMing, it's your show. That the party regularly wins justifies that its appropriate challenge.
Kam faces strong and powerful enemies because he is strong and powerful. His enemies do a lot of damage because he has a lot of hp. Everything will always be geared to challenge anyway. This is a mindset that leads away from ever bothering to even level up.
feh. What's your real point Dune? I don't want to just rant at you guys. I thought I was asking a fun char-opt question and it went a really unfun place. :(
The DM makes creations and challenges that can challenge the entire party. That said?
Now I'm not trying to be nasty here, but I've told you before that Kam's better optimized and more powerful than the other PCs in the game. This isn't news. So let's look at it and look at the type of opponents that challenge Kam. What are they? Extreme offense and sometimes range to deal with him. What does this imply - that I feel these measures are required to fairly challenge the party. In particular, who's the strongest in the party? Even if you disagree, let's roll with the obvious answer here.
You can't really 'win' D&D. Sure, you can make a super powered character, but the DM can do what you can do and can easily do it better. In fact, it's often required to give the party good challenges. So the stronger the party is, the more firepower the DM uses to challenge them. Do you grasp where this is going, Kam? The reason I harp on this point sometimes is because, quite literally, being very good at what you do makes the DM have to do the same. It's one thing for Kam to be strong and powerful, but he often overshadows the entire party. Hell, in prep, my first question on any design is 'Does Kam automatically win this fight?'.
You're devastatingly good at what you do. I have to make monsters to match, but we're not in a static void. Other things change as well, for example: Knight wants to rebuild Knight, in part because she feels she's having trouble keeping up. I've had to toss Mari a bunch of boosts; it would be worse if Nikkolai's problems weren't mostly learning the system and Adail is a long term project by design. On the other side, the monsters have to step it up to challenge Kam - and they overshadow the other PCs more, since they're designed to challenge Kam. So they have to get stronger to keep up with the monsters and hello vicious cycle. I wouldn't dream of throwing something like the Friar at a party of that level under normal circumstances. I have to keep being more extreme to challenge Kam, and it's damned hard to balance it.
Now I know you're unhappy and you've died twice. It's not really fair to point a finger and say 'This is YOUR fault!', but the fact of the matter is, some of it is. Look, some of it is mine. I linked you to some char-op stuff to help you build a more solid PC after Eva died and I ignored a niggling doubt in the back of my mind early on with Kam. But the fact of the matter is that you need only look to the opposition to see how Kam distorts things. A powerful character that's out of step with the rest of the party doesn't do anything but ruins the balance for everyone else.
Further, it leads to arguments and general discord. You and Rat don't get along over this, to take a fairly evident example. Then you come and complain that hey, you died! Then you get defensive and mopey about it when you're called on it. You wrap the entire thing in a blanket of self justification and miss the more salient problems altogether. It's okay that Kam's more powerful, I have bad luck! It's okay that Kam's more powerful, I die sometimes! It's okay that Kam's more powerful, I should dominate fights!
You're missing the entire point here. A level 1 character can be powerful in the context of a particular campaign. A level 30 char-op masterpiece can be weak in the context of another game! Some mechanical aptitude is a good thing, but you're never going to beat the system. It's not how the game works. If you made Pun-Pun instead of Kam and I let you play it, I'd be making Pun-Pun+1 to give you a decent encounter. What this does is that things I design to be able to take on Kam are really strong and capable, which leads to increased lethality. Kam ups the stakes for the entire game, I have to call the raise as the DM.
It's no fun to watch Kam steam roller encounters. It might be for you sometimes, but you're not the only person playing here. Being competent, deadly and powerful doesn't mean you wreck the entire curve of the game, man. I've said several times I want combat in Planar to be dangerous and uncertain. If I don't challenge a PC, it loses that. So thus the vicious cycle continues.
In other news since I missed Rat this morning:
<Kallen> Question on the sword, or filth fever, really: If one person catches it from me, would they spread it to others?
Normally Filth Fever is spread via injury. However, since the sword's version only requires close contact, it would function as such. So yes.
Okay, what are you guys going to be doing in town while resting? Are you going to look into things/research anything/whatever? What are your plans once you're rested up and prepared?
Re:Yulia. She's going to be focusing a lot on healing. Next level she'll take the Touch of Healing reserve feat from CC, to be able to freely heal you guys to halfway at any time. Any suggestions for further feats to help this? She's dedicating herself to healing you guys, since quite frankly, you guys get into a lot of trouble and then there's Mari on top of it.
Hey, c'mon. How many of Mari's minor disasters actually required healing?
Quote from: Anastasia on June 10, 2010, 05:01:36 PM
Okay, what are you guys going to be doing in town while resting? Are you going to look into things/research anything/whatever? What are your plans once you're rested up and prepared?
We need to know what the nearest portals are. Air is big and we can't rely on being anywhere near where we were before, so I'd assume the first thing we want to do is find out where we can go from here. Ideally there would be a gate to the material so we could go kill lich bitch, but how often are things that convenient? We could also ask around to see where Rogue and Baylee went from here. A way to get Kam's hand back would also be aces. I gather we need a larger settlement for that? So that's something to ask about.
Guys, are there any other planes in particular we're looking to get to right now, if there's no easy way to the material from here? (If there's a way to Baator then Mari will get moody and bug people, but we're totally not going there right after barely surviving the Abyss.)
I don't have any other real plans; dunno exactly what's in this town and got the impression it was pretty small to begin with. Mari will practice shapeshifting, I guess.
Quote from: Anastasia on June 10, 2010, 05:01:36 PM
Okay, what are you guys going to be doing in town while resting? Are you going to look into things/research anything/whatever? What are your plans once you're rested up and prepared?
I'm not sure if my visit with Balinbomb will cover this but things I'd like to do in order of priority:
1. Inspect Phylactery. Try to find a way to keep it from being scryed. Or if it is being scryed, how to mislead Lich Bitch.
2. Find out how successful Balinbomb was at rescuing the boy. If he was not, find out what he knows about the Lich's location, her defenses, etc., etc.
3. Nikk was too busy trying to stay
alive in the Abyss to worry about his newfound powers and newfound love/affinity for fire. But now, he's beginning to wonder if Balinbomb wasn't mistaken about his ancestry or worse, lying to him about it. Research into his bloodline is definitely on his list.
4. Find the shortest route to his home plane.
Most of those are where we're going next. Kam's going to put some self interest forward and say we're heading to the nearest big city/famous healer so he can have his hand back.
If said city has a route back to the home plane, fine, but it might be better just to check into contracting a wizard to open one for us. Not sure how that kind of price normally ends up, but that'd be a route that doesn't have us providing a traveling dart-board for her to target at for a while.
For things kam is doing in town, mainly going to be keeping a closer eye on Mari. At least making sure she doesn't have a relapse of 'fuck everything that moves'. Probably practicing a bit with Knight to refresh stabbing things with a sword that isn't ten feet long.
Truthfully, following that, Kam would vote we, in order:
1)Arrange and deliver devastating first strike/raid on the lich's home, with a plan to succeed at doing so.
2)Focus temporarily on accumulating wealth following this for a bit so that we have a bit of emergency cash funds, healing wands, potions, and possibly a few toys for people. Sure we have two major missions (at least) still on the horizon, but finishing the lich quest would be a good time to take a break and make sure we're set up as a team to survive along our goals in the future. At present we're probably breaking negative on the lich quest in terms of money. That's totally fine, we're expending resources to make her dead...for realz, and the regular expending of resources makes for a better feel for the challenge. Sure, Yulia is around now to give us more long term healing, but it also wouldn't hurt to take some simple quests she can survive too (Hey Listen, that con belt is looking pretty~).
I specifically made sure Rogue would meet up with us on Nikkolai's home plane, so we don't really need to track them down. Cardsense Go!
I'm all for finding out where the nearest big city is and heading there, for regens and other things. I don't really see what research we can actually do in some podunk village, there's surely no vast library or anything like that we can really use (and the topics we might want to study are fairly esoteric, at that.) I don't think we can just assault the lich's home; we don't really know where it is yet. I spoke with Zeph a bit, and know that her old house got burned down, so she presumably moved to god-knows-where. There are a few ways we can find her.
The first is apparently through Balinbomb.
The second is through one of her friends; apparently she met up with a lot of demons and devils and nasty folks! If Nikkolai could remember any details about one of these people, we can track them down and see if we can't pump them for information.
The third is to go to her old abode and see what we can find.
The fourth is to do random stuff and heavily publicize the fact that we have her phylactery. Perhaps she'll send minions after us we can beat up and interrogate.
I think that *actually killing her* is super hard, owing to her undead nature and the fact that she can (sigh) teleport, meaning we can never really fight her unless we manage to surprise her (which needs a lot of reliable intel), or she wants to fight.
Accumulating money is best done by taking it forcibly from other people. If we pursue allies of the lich, we can steal it from them.
Personally? I need to get a mount. I need to commune with the other cards, it might be nice to sit down and have a chat with them about recent happenings. And Baator is of great interest to me lately, so I think I'd want to do some research on it or start finding informants to help with it, as well as talk to Mari about how to approach rescuing her sister. I'm all about the sibling love~
Quote from: El Cideon on June 10, 2010, 08:15:03 PMWe need to know what the nearest portals are. Air is big and we can't rely on being anywhere near where we were before, so I'd assume the first thing we want to do is find out where we can go from here. Ideally there would be a gate to the material so we could go kill lich bitch, but how often are things that convenient? We could also ask around to see where Rogue and Baylee went from here. A way to get Kam's hand back would also be aces. I gather we need a larger settlement for that? So that's something to ask about.
Make a general Gather Info with a 'bot when I'm around and post it. Feel free to get others to assist to aid another if you want, or have someone else lead if they're better at it. Whatever works here. You guys can take 10 or 20, taking ten is fine but taking 20 will incur some expenses from repeated wining/dining/bribing, as well as get you noticed. In case you care about that at all.
(This one will probably be repeated a bunch and referred to in later posts, so expect it. I'd rather do one concentrated GI effort rather than a bunch of disparate rolling.)
QuoteI don't have any other real plans; dunno exactly what's in this town and got the impression it was pretty small to begin with. Mari will practice shapeshifting, I guess.
There's not a lot beyond essential adventurer services. It's a small town and a rest point after the Abyss. All things said at least it's not full of demons.
You're talking to Balimbomb now so I won't answer half of these as they're redundant.
Quote from: Zephyrus on June 10, 2010, 10:07:38 PMI'm not sure if my visit with Balinbomb will cover this but things I'd like to do in order of priority:
1. Inspect Phylactery. Try to find a way to keep it from being scryed. Or if it is being scryed, how to mislead Lich Bitch.
Make a K:A check here about scrying?
Quote3. Nikk was too busy trying to stay alive in the Abyss to worry about his newfound powers and newfound love/affinity for fire. But now, he's beginning to wonder if Balinbomb wasn't mistaken about his ancestry or worse, lying to him about it. Research into his bloodline is definitely on his list.
This place isn't much for research, 'specially fey research. Your best bet would to go to a fey court in Arborea or other such place and consult learned sages and original sources.
Quote4. Find the shortest route to his home plane.
Ties into Mari's GI up there, see above.
Quote from: Dracos on June 10, 2010, 10:26:31 PM
Most of those are where we're going next. Kam's going to put some self interest forward and say we're heading to the nearest big city/famous healer so he can have his hand back. If said city has a route back to the home plane, fine, but it might be better just to check into contracting a wizard to open one for us. Not sure how that kind of price normally ends up, but that'd be a route that doesn't have us providing a traveling dart-board for her to target at for a while.
Route to a bigger city is GI bait, see above. Finding the proper spells and price range is something Nikkolai could help you with, he could make an K:A check to speculate how much a custom portal home would cost. Alternately you could go consult a better source that's not in a podunk village in Air.
QuoteFor things kam is doing in town, mainly going to be keeping a closer eye on Mari. At least making sure she doesn't have a relapse of 'fuck everything that moves'. Probably practicing a bit with Knight to refresh stabbing things with a sword that isn't ten feet long.
Okay. If you guys want to RP this a bit feel free to go for it.
QuoteSure, Yulia is around now to give us more long term healing, but it also wouldn't hurt to take some simple quests she can survive too (Hey Listen, that con belt is looking pretty~).
This touches on another point, namely Yulia. Yulia wouldn't mind a con booster or some select gear, but she won't push to slurp into the party wealth fund too much. A lot of this lies into you guys, she's tagging along and is Nikkolai's familiar. A general question: Do you guys want to invest into Yulia at all? If you guys wanna blow resources on her I can tell you what she'd like. Up to you guys entirely.
She's pretty gear-independent, and some of us are very gear-dependent. I don't mind the occasional trinket, but we're kinda strapped right now.
Maybe when we drop by Arborea next she can gloat to the other courre over finding an awesome bow, and get them to invest in her FairyFighterFund.
Quote from: Carthrat on June 10, 2010, 10:44:23 PM
I specifically made sure Rogue would meet up with us on Nikkolai's home plane, so we don't really need to track them down. Cardsense Go!
Speaking of, nothing on Air right now.
QuotePersonally? I need to get a mount. I need to commune with the other cards, it might be nice to sit down and have a chat with them about recent happenings. And Baator is of great interest to me lately, so I think I'd want to do some research on it or start finding informants to help with it, as well as talk to Mari about how to approach rescuing her sister. I'm all about the sibling love~
Sure, we can talk with the cards. Poke me sometime about that, you seem to be full of free time lately so it shouldn't be hard. Better info on Baator is something you all need; you can toss it into the GI above, but odds are you'll want to find better sources. You're pretty much right about this being a podunk town.
Forgot to hit enter on this earlier.
Quote from: Carthrat on June 10, 2010, 11:17:30 PM
She's pretty gear-independent, and some of us are very gear-dependent. I don't mind the occasional trinket, but we're kinda strapped right now.
Maybe when we drop by Arborea next she can gloat to the other courre over finding an awesome bow, and get them to invest in her FairyFighterFund.
Certainly, right now we're strapped. But after we close out this quest, yes, that should be part of gathering money. Investing in resources, fairysurvivalfund, and a bit in all of our funds, with an eye to our next big quest in Baator. To my thoughts, it really can only help the sort of feel of the game if we go to planes prepped properly with equipment to deal with them and we're really enterting that nice spot where it's not unreasonable to gather the currency to do so. We didn't do half bad at doing it for our abyssal run.
I lean more toward treating Yulia like a character. No she shouldn't be decked out to a PCs degree by any means, but given we're not telling her to buzz off and go home, we should take some time to make sure she also survives. The logic would be the same if we were having rogue come along on several of our missions. And technically, the logic should be the same on your horses, except you already spend your resources to try and make that true.
If we can gather stuff while doing quests that advance the baator plotline, that's totally cool too, I suppose.
Anyhow, I think I'm yammering several sessions further along since so, gonna clam up and let us discuss what we're doing now.
As a side note to that, getting gear for a tiny creature isn't easy. Adail's ran into the same problem. He hasn't bought much at all so this hasn't come up, but finding appropriately sized gear that doesn't magically resize is hard. Read as: $$$+, mostly for mundane things and odds and ends. Of course, there's no guarantee any given item will resize.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicItemBasics.htm#sizeAndMagicItems
Making Fast Money
Gambling Scheme: Wherein we find some kind of high-stakes gambling trick, at a casino or possibly an arranged one between various rich people- and basically ensure we come out with a large profit. The difficulties here are arranging some plan in the first place, and getting enough interested parties. No doubt this will leave some sore losers behind, which will be great, because if they come after us, we can clobber them and take their stuff.
Killing People We Don't Like: I have no compunction about stealing from people to survive. And there are people I think we can all agree suck! Evil temples abound, and whilst we might make an enemy, we'll make friends as well if we go rob some dark priest of everything he's got. Why temples? Well.. they're the most obvious and prevalent bad guys around.
Mercenary Work: This is a bit trickier; it requires us to find someone who needs our help with something, then going out and doing it. One possibility is to look for work, but I prefer the *make* work option. Instead of looking around for people who want us to do something, I say we find a problem, tell someone about it, and then tell them we can fix it! At cost! We can be like salesmen. We can be sneaky or honest about this, but I suggest we charge exorbiant prices to solve simple problems.
Something I don't want to do
Dungeon Crawling: It's a conceit of the setting that there are all these ruins and underground tombs and things that hold VAST WEALTH. But I just don't like this method. If we go to some dungeon or whatever, I'd like to have a real purpose to go there rather than chasing fabled riches. Besides, everyone's doing it. Clearly there's no more money left in this plan.
Quote from: Anastasia on June 11, 2010, 03:20:49 AM
As a side note to that, getting gear for a tiny creature isn't easy. Adail's ran into the same problem. He hasn't bought much at all so this hasn't come up, but finding appropriately sized gear that doesn't magically resize is hard. Read as: $$$+, mostly for mundane things and odds and ends. Of course, there's no guarantee any given item will resize.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicItemBasics.htm#sizeAndMagicItems
If we're getting a sizable amount of gear for either Yulia or Adail, we probably should take a trip to either the musteval home or arborea and a courre community. The folks who are naturally that size would be making things for themselves like that. The expense is really getting tiny stuff in a human or larger town, or finding it in places where only medium creatures are roaming.
Anyhow, we should pause this discussion pending closing out the lich thing proper. It might be a month or more before we really sit down and can rest from that bit. ^^;
Not much to add from Adail's standpoint. Lack of resources was noted in the Abyss so as awkward as he feels doing it(he's a CELESTIAL MONK being materialistic is a foreign feeling to him), even he will agree that doing stuff Just To Get Money for a bit may not be a bad idea.
Gambling idea sounds the most entertaining to me OOC. IC, Adail will obviously object to us being dicks to anyone who isn't really frikking evil. He can probably understand the idea of working the odds in our favor in a gamble, though. Cheating of any stripe is part of that culture and a risk you take when you get involved, kinda like adventuring and getting hurt/dead.
Re: Yulia equips - It's honestly hilarious that I actually have competition for any Tiny Sized stuff we might find now. Though if she can use something more, Adail will almost certainly pass it to her. Just the kind of guy he is(equal parts generous, gentlemanly and overconfident in his own abilities~). I do approve of treating her more like a character and less like a convenient walking buff, but that's how I am in general, so.
Not much else to add, Adail's really the one party member who doesn't have anything personal he wants/needs to go do(other then brag about his Flawless Victory to his buddies back in the White Knights, but that can wait).
Gate, you and I need to work on how this fits into your overlying Legendary Story. As a friend, I can't let you simply walk away from punching a giant spider dragon to death without hailin' that :P
half kidding but Kam didn't actually see you kick that spider-dragon's ass.
Two fairly interesting logs are up. Nikkolai's in particular influences possible lich-bitch plans, seems she's been a busy abomination against nature!
<Mari> roll 1d20+10 so what does Mari find out about the neighborhood while she's being a bum in this little hick town? What are the big cities around here, are there any notable portals to other planes other than the one we came from?
* Hatbot --> "Mari rolls 1d20+10 so what does Mari find out about the neighborhood while she's being a bum in this little hick town? What are the big cities around here, are there any notable portals to other planes other than the one we came from? and gets 12."12 [1d20=2]
<Erin> gjobbed
<Mari> I guess that was inevitable.
<Mari> Someone bug Nik to do it too.
<Erin> roll 1d20+3 I'll do it, too
* Hatbot --> "Erin rolls 1d20+3 I'll do it, too and gets 5."12 [1d20=2]
<Erin> Yeaaaahhhhhhh
* Kotono facepalsm.
<Dracos> roll 1d20+4 I ask hello.
* Hatbot --> "Dracos rolls 1d20+4 I ask hello. and gets 8."12 [1d20=4]
<Dracos> :)
* Kotono slowly claps.
<Mari> "They just came out of the Abyss! There's no way we can trust them with directions!"
<Dracos> Nobody likes us.
<Dracos> :D
* Mari goes to post all of that, because seriously.
<Erin> Podunk town is podunk town
<Kotono> roll 1d20+2 Yulia will try and help out at least
<Kotono> .
* Hatbot --> "Kotono rolls 1d20+2 Yulia will try and help out at least and gets 3."12 [1d20=1]
<Kotono> ...
<Kotono> Yeeeep.
Long story short, Nik needs to roll too to complete the circle of failure so we can get lost in the backwaters of Air forever.
...So I tell you Jack, I was right there! It was this weird chick with a tail and this shock of stark white hair! She lead the bunch! With her was this girl with the damnest hand, like a fucking slaad! There's this giant missing a hand with them, I don't know what the Baator that was about! For some reason on top of it, this weird courre was with them! Let me tell you, I'm glad I wasn't involved. So the leader girl tries to make nice with the barkeep and some patrons, buying rounds.
I gotta say one thing; that TAIL of hers, man! Creeped everyone out. Fucking tiefling for sure, mate. Meanwhile the hand-girl trying to help out but doesn't really get it. She ends up going on some weird tangent about her family and Talons and Moon and I don't know what the fuck else. Girl's gone 'round the bend and lapped it a few times. The big one just gets everyone staring at him in complete terror! Then the courre...this shop-keep gets up and points at her, calling her a false coin counter! Strangest damn thing ever! This gets the courre to say something, I missed it, but next thing I know that entire crazy group is being escorted out.
In real terms, feel free to try again/take 10/take 20/have someone else try.
22:46 Zephyrus • roll 1d20+15 How's my people skills?
22:46 Kobot • Zephyrus rolled 1d20+15 How's my people skills? --> [ 1d20=17 ]{32}
I hope I get an amusing small cutscene where I seduce the information out of a comely lass or something.
From a grizzled old man, Nikkolai gets information on portals. As they trade war stories, he gets the following information:
Within about 4 days of down/west travel is a one way portal to Mechanus. It's peaceful, overseen by a pair of Air Elementals and assisted by a friendly Inevitable. Some travelers use it as a shortcut out of Air, but it's one way nature makes it only middling useful overall.
If you travel about a week to the east, you can find a portal to the realm of Life, the Positive Energy Plane. It's a two way portal, overseen by celestial servants. A floating, stable temple is about half a day's journey from it, but insistent angels bar anyone from coming closer. Whispers say that Planetars and Solars have been seen going in before, but there's no way to discern the truth of that.
To the up/west by about 10 days, past some debris fields, lies a portal to Arcadia. It's unguarded and used as a routine trading route on the way to Hailan. (See below.)
After a day of talking to a swooning tiefling Nikkolai is able to extract the following:
Those two? Figured it was a knight and a lady running off to live in sin together. Think they went towards Shivra (See below) - something about a wizard of portals they heard about there. That guy's one helluva buffet for the eyes, let me tell you...oh, but you're cute too! But if you had his hair and muscles...yum!
Nikkolai also manages to extract a map out of the entire day's work. It shows the following, augmented with helpful notes:
Within about two weeks of travel to the east(It brushes past the portal to the positive) you come closer to a few vortexes leading to the Paraelemental Plane of Cold. It's known for cloudless snowfall and ice crystals forming. The largest ice crystals are banded together, a town forming amid them. Shivra is a bit of a frontier town, but is maturing into a more diverse and established settlement. Due to Cyronax being a general bastard, there's a lot of call for adventurers there. There's also trade with the less unpleasant parts of Cold that passes through there.
About two weeks and a few days away to the up and west is Nisron's Keep. It's a translocated wizard's castle with a small town around it. It's mostly made of humans, with the wizard in question being reclusive. It's said he has some ties to the heavens and air, or alternately has good blackmail material on them so they leave him be. The town itself is a mish-mash of odds and ends, from arcane scholars looking for wisdom, to travelers, to the curious denizen of Air hanging around.
About three and a half weeks of travel takes you to Halian, a city of trade. It's centered around a portal to the Astral, a large trading town. Less info is to be found here about it, mostly due to the distance involved. The shopping is said to be excellent and the town is well regulated.
After checking some of the few books here and talking with travelers, Nikkolai finds out the following about portals to his prime:
There ain' t any nearby at all.There's no passages to the Prime handy, the closest to a good transitive plane is Halian at 3ish weeks of travel away.
Nikkolai talks to the town cleric and learns this about Baator here:
There's really not a ton to know. Evil is far weaker in Air than good, and Baator has no place here. Tieflings are tolerated, but the one you got cozy with gets reaaaal huffy if you mention law and the baatezu.
I do believe we should be looking at going to Halian, since it is on our way and also a trading town, and trading town means $$$.
If the Arcadian portal is two-way I wouldn't mind dropping in and out to get pings on Cardsense, though. If my understand is correct, this route will take us to the portal, then to Nisron's Keep, then to Halian?
Shivra sounds the most wild and fun, ignoring our quest and all.
But are any of them save Halian likely to have a cleric that can restore my hand?
Arcadia
Quote from: Dracos on June 14, 2010, 12:22:15 AM
Shivra sounds the most wild and fun, ignoring our quest and all.
But are any of them save Halian likely to have a cleric that can restore my hand?
Each of them have more advanced services, so most likely. There's also that temple mentioned by that portal to the Positive.
Quote from: Carthrat on June 14, 2010, 12:20:34 AM
I do believe we should be looking at going to Halian, since it is on our way and also a trading town, and trading town means $$$.
If the Arcadian portal is two-way I wouldn't mind dropping in and out to get pings on Cardsense, though. If my understand is correct, this route will take us to the portal, then to Nisron's Keep, then to Halian?
The Arcadian portal is two way.
Nisron's keep isn't meant to be on the way, I basically mispasted the info chucks. The up/west descriptor is meant to be with Halian right after it.
I'm going to vote Shivra, simply because it seems to be the most convenient method to get to my home plane.
Rat votes for Halian, Zeph votes for Shivra. 1-1 tie so far.
23:28 Zephyrus • roll 1d20+14 What the hell do I know?
23:28 Kobot • Zephyrus rolled 1d20+14 What the hell do I know? --> [ 1d20=1 ]{15}
For Arcadia, since Knight has no ranks.
<Dracos> roll 1d20+6 you can't take ten on knowledge checks. Kam rolls K:P
<Kobot> Dracos rolled 1d20+6 you can't take ten on knowledge checks. Kam rolls K:P --> [ 1d20=16 ]{22}
Also for arcadia
The Peaceable Kingdoms of Arcadia are about righteous harmony. Everything is orderly and good, working for the common good. It's said to be home of powers like St. Cuthbert and Helm. Nikkolai doesn't know much more, he remembers falling asleep on this part of his study books.
Kam knows all of this, as well as knowing that it's a heaven. It's a very good place, but very orderly. Everything in it's proper place and proper time. Those who don't fit in tend to be lovingly and caringly hammered into place. For your own good, of course! At worst you'll get exiled from the plane if you just don't fit but aren't obviously evil and thus smite bait. It's filled with equal part celestials and beings of pure law.
Yep. As previous said, want to go to Halian so I can drop into Arcadia on the way.
2 for Halian, 1 for Shivra so far.
Shivra. We can drop by the temple next to the portal to the positive energy plane on the way too.
Whoops! I counted Rat's vote twice. 1 for Halian, 2 for Shivra.
Hrn. Actually I'm fine with Shivra too. Maybe someone's in the para-elemental plane of cold and I clearly need to check that. Befriending a guy who knows a lot of shit about portals would also be an invaluable aid.
So yeah, let's put on our overcoats.
Nikkolai would like to make an inquiry about whether or not the gentleman who made the lead sheathe for Knight is willing to make a small lead box to certain specifications.
He can for 20 GP.
Gladly pays the man and gives him the needed specifications.
Okay, since Rat flip-flopped, that's 3 for Shivra. Unless Gate or Mari wants to put it up for more debate or has a good salient argument(If so, ASAP because I need prep time) I'm assuming Shivra.
Note: My vote it Shivra with a slight side trip to the temple/angels ye mentioned on the way as being closer to heal my hand.
At least my understanding of it is its pretty much on the way to do so.
Waaaah infodump. I'm fine with whatever really. Shivra sounds cool, and I'm resistant enough to cold for it not to bother me anyway. I can prep a couple of Endure Elements for other folks before we go as well.
How many am I going to need? Not for me or Yulia, at the very least.
No need, sir. I have Planar Tolerance. Surely that covers overt effects like extreme cold and the like? >_>
Planar Tolerance would, yes. As would warm clothes or Endure Elements. To be honest, I figured someone like Mari or Nikkolai wouldn't have warm clothes and get caught ont hat.
Mari's got enough body heat to go around.
You sound amazingly like Zeph right now.
I calls it how I sees it~
So I can now daydream about Knight and Mari sharing body heat?
It's a bit rude to ask permission for something you already do.
Would I do that?
Kam isn't ice immune yet, but yeah, there's endure elements/planar protection to go around.
I'm good going any of these places. Sounds like it's decided anyway, so hey!
And I was actually going to ask about buying warm clothes, believe it or not. *checks* Cold weather outfit, 8 gp go. Just in case something unexpected happens with the spellcasters, you know?
Good idea. Kam also buys one.
I will as well. Never can tell when I or Adail could be incapacitated or unable to cast the needed spells.
Okay, deduct GPs and add 'em to your sheet.
A refresher on conditions within Air:
Subjective Direction Gravity: In other words, down is whatever you think down is, more or less. Sorta. You can also fly at will as you found out before.
Enhanced Magic: Air magic and effects are both empowered and enlarged. This includes effects such as Air Devotion and Cloudkill.
Impeded Magic: Earth magic is impeded, just how air magic was impeded on Earth.
If you grab someone in this plane and think 'down', are they forced to fall with you?
Yes, if you can grapple them.
Okay, you guys are split up into 2 groups. With Adail and Yulia off going to find info on Vandala, what will Knight/Mari/Nikkolai do?
I have to assume we need some time to dry out.
When Knight sobers up a little, she'll suggest we organize an improptu betting ring on the outcome of the duel. <_<
First order of business, find lodging to sober them the hell up.
Second, follow up on Calariel.
Third, which may be interchangeable with the second depending on how it goes, act as a referee during Knight's duel.
Fourth, Sell cloak, get new cloak, get ear pierced.
Lastly, Dig up info on Wizard and meet with him to discuss hiring his services.
Let's go ID that dagger?
<->
Ok, so I've got a couple of ideas for how we can make some money out of this debacle. Both are gambling, but one casts us as the 'house'; the other is more just putting faith in me to win and betting money on that with interested goers.
The first step in both plans is hyping the duel, and the first step to that is finding out who I'm up against (GI checks whee). Then, the actual hype; I think a shapechanged Mari would do well here; she can talk up both competitors in various taverns and get people interested in coming to watch.
Option 1: She can serve as a kind of bookie; if we can gauge how 'respected' my opponent is around here then it might be possible to put out some odds on the victory of me or her, which we can hopefully mold so that we make a profit regardless of who wins. If we pin the odds right, it's less risky than Option 2, though likely less profitable. It might be more fun, though, and it'll generate more hubbub and give us more opportunities to chat people up.
Option 2: We place an actual bet with the challenged, or other random interested parties; this kinda means I have to win (always dubious) or we lose a lot of cash, since presumably we'd bet enough to make significant funds.
Dune, any thoughts on streamlining this? Between Zeph and Mari's social abilities and my own experience in gambling, I think we could work out a scheme here.
This will, incidentally, expose us to many people, which might make it easier to make friends and track down the Slaad we're looking for.
Quote from: El Cideon on June 16, 2010, 03:44:25 AM
I have to assume we need some time to dry out.
This takes 5 or 6 hours. This isn't a huge deal since there's no natural day/night cycle in Air as much as when people feel like sleeping. (This does raise some questions about what 'tomorrow' means, but neither of you were specific.)
Quote from: Zephyrus on June 16, 2010, 03:47:15 AM
First order of business, find lodging to sober them the hell up.
Second, follow up on Calariel.
Third, which may be interchangeable with the second depending on how it goes, act as a referee during Knight's duel.
Fourth, Sell cloak, get new cloak, get ear pierced.
Lastly, Dig up info on Wizard and meet with him to discuss hiring his services.
Okay, you guys find a decent inn called the Zephyr's Guster. It's a nice place with soft beds and understanding staff who know how to treat drunks. We've all been there, in a foreign city and drunk within an hour of walking in. It's just part of experiencing the culture. All of this costs you a grand 2 GP, deduct from GP pool. As for Calariel, that's entirely solo so we may be able to do this during the week. Will you be around at all before the next session, Zeph? Third depends on other things obviously. The fourth can be done OOC, go ahead and declare the selling/purchases in the loot thread.
As for the wizard, we'll do some GIing after Calabriel works out.
Separate post for Knight's betting shenanigans.
Quote from: Carthrat on January 17, 1974, 11:27:19 AMOk, so I've got a couple of ideas for how we can make some money out of this debacle. Both are gambling, but one casts us as the 'house'; the other is more just putting faith in me to win and betting money on that with interested goers.
The first step in both plans is hyping the duel, and the first step to that is finding out who I'm up against (GI checks whee). Then, the actual hype; I think a shapechanged Mari would do well here; she can talk up both competitors in various taverns and get people interested in coming to watch.
Option 1: She can serve as a kind of bookie; if we can gauge how 'respected' my opponent is around here then it might be possible to put out some odds on the victory of me or her, which we can hopefully mold so that we make a profit regardless of who wins. If we pin the odds right, it's less risky than Option 2, though likely less profitable. It might be more fun, though, and it'll generate more hubbub and give us more opportunities to chat people up.
Option 2: We place an actual bet with the challenged, or other random interested parties; this kinda means I have to win (always dubious) or we lose a lot of cash, since presumably we'd bet enough to make significant funds.
Dune, any thoughts on streamlining this? Between Zeph and Mari's social abilities and my own experience in gambling, I think we could work out a scheme here.
This will, incidentally, expose us to many people, which might make it easier to make friends and track down the Slaad we're looking for.
Zeph/Cid, if you two want to get together with a coherent GI scheme I'm cool with this. Work it out and I'll assign the proper rolls for it. The crux of this is a choice on method which I have no say in, and you guys getting a plan together for GIing and a cavalcade of prepping shenanigans. Get your shit together and we'll move this along.
Quote(This does raise some questions about what 'tomorrow' means, but neither of you were specific.)
uhhhh
Good point! I assume the place keeps time somehow, though? Lots of humanoids around, they work on cycles?
Yes. If you poke around you'll find that the city guard keeps an Official Time Clock of Shivra. By the point you're sober enough to function, it is 3 PM. Due to time keeping being terrifically inaccurate in general 'round these parts, they only adjust it by the hour.
Nice new avatars, Gate and Rat.
So, let's start this out by seeing what we find out about Knight's opponent.
<Mari> roll 1d20+10 so I've got a description of that prissy bitch, at least. What does asking around based on that get me?
* Hatbot --> "Mari rolls 1d20+10 so I've got a description of that prissy bitch, at least. What does asking around based on that get me? and gets 17."12 [1d20=7]
Mari ignores the way her head hurts as she gets to work. Sure, hangovers suck, but prissy bitches must be put in place! You find out her name is Korovana, a 'dagger mage' of sorts.
Trying again for more information. Any time left in the day after this can be used for whatever scheme people decide to try if we come up with one (and then sleep. It's good to be rested in case people chase you out of town!)
<Mari> roll 1d20+10 so what is a dagger mage, what can it do? Do people know where this one comes from?
* Hatbot --> "Mari rolls 1d20+10 so what is a dagger mage, what can it do? Do people know where this one comes from? and gets 25."12 [1d20=15]
Mari wanders around, asking about a 'dagger mage'! She finds herself meandering into a chilly shop, where sculptures of ice lie in repose. Various mortal creatures, abberations, outsiders...all shown as if lying in honored rest, having left life behind. In here is a man dressed in a pressed shirt and pants, suspenders keeping said pants up. He looks human but with a distinct white pallor to him. His brown mustache droops, "You want to learn about dagger mages? I can help you...come in, come in..."
Are you going to bite on his offer, Mari?
Sure! Let's see what this total stranger wants in exchange for free information.
Hop into #dunes, Mari?
I'd like to have clear rules for combat in the plane of air for people who don't have natural fly scores. I assume we temporarily get them or something whilst we're here? We've spent enough time flying around that we're surely used to the mental shenanigans involved.
Yes. You have a natural fly speed of 30ft(perfect) while there.
The Inevitable will agree to the oath an offer up his sword to be sold for repair costs, and offer all of you a bag of gemstones as payment to get him to somewhere he can be repaired. This good with you guys?
Works for me.
This begs a question then: Where are you taking him exactly?
I'm alright with this.
Knight will...
-Loot the igloo! The slaad had a sword. I also want to gather all the inevitable parts I can find.
-Take the inevitable to the gnome tinker, who hopefully can help us or direct us to someone else who can.
-Hopefully the inevitable parts can help fund the repair and also help fund a mechahorse!
Make a search check, Knight? You can take 10 if you want normally. Taking 20 on a search check takes a bunch of time, but you can do it if you desire.
I'll take 10, but ideally get Mari/Nik to help me out here? They're the ones with the brains and such. <_<
No more comments so I presume everyone is good with this.
Quote from: Carthrat on June 23, 2010, 03:12:58 AM
I'm alright with this.
Knight will...
-Loot the igloo! The slaad had a sword. I also want to gather all the inevitable parts I can find.
-Take the inevitable to the gnome tinker, who hopefully can help us or direct us to someone else who can.
-Hopefully the inevitable parts can help fund the repair and also help fund a mechahorse!
1. With help and quick action you're able to salvage some things:
A bottle of Askoian Brandy, whatever that is.
A coin purse with 12 CP, 4 SP and 1 GP.
A little blue ice statue of a penguin.
The slaad's sword, dented and half frozen but mostly intact. It'll need some repair work!
As many broken bits of chairs, tables, ice and furnture as you could EVER IMAGINE.
A whole heap of broken Inevitable parts
An intact golden breastplate and sword combo.
You can take anything you please, let me know what you take and I'll cross post that to loot.
2. The gnome tinkerer can fix him, but he'll need some money to do so. The Inevitable did offer his sword to be sold for payment, and he's also offered you some gemstones. Using/taking either?
3. The tinkerer thinks so but he needs to fix up the Inevitable first. Once that's done he can go fiddle around with Inevitable-scrap.
If the slaad's sword is magic, we'll take it, same on the gold breastplate+sword. Obviously, the inevitable parts, too.
We will of course milk the inevitable for everything he's worth. <_<
I guess we get everything magic ID'd, too. >.>
Slaad's sword is magic, breastplate and sword aren't. Anyone taking anything else?
Actually let's take the gold stuff anyway. It's made of money!
Mari is totally taking that brandy.
So I've read up all the logs. I'll have stats updated by later today, jetlagginess not withstanding. I seem to have missed some cool meaty shivra flavor, while I expect Kam's been sitting around, keeping watch and studying up on his next language (draconic, so he can practice his broken learnings on mari), trying to desperately ignore cubi. In truthiness(tm), Kam's been kind of a blank for about 4ish sessions now between being dead, replaced, tweaked, revived, and sidetracked as I missed 1.5 sessions, so a bit out of the flow and anxious to get back in and figure out some meaty RPness to be part of.
Statin' in hopes of making sure I got what's on our plate:
On the slad/cube line, Slad is dead and so the party will be coming back and collecting Kam/telling cubi about it at beginning of next session :)
On the inevitables, 1 survived, we've tentatively agreed to help repair it in exchange for not hunting down cubi...and hopefully good money. Nikki's override of his bargaining makes it unclear whether or not mr. law will see it that way. (Use AND. Don't just replace their terms!)
The duel bit is entirely finished at this point with knight having a couple that likely hate her guts for some point later.
The Solar bit (Virginowned) has established that Lich is going to be mind fucking Nikkolai when she gets a chance until we kill her.
Mari has yet more brandy. :)
At this point most of the flavor of shivra is sampled to move on from. oh well.
Open on the plate are:
1)Sending Cubi off
2)Getting the inevitable repaired. We have inevitable parts and a gnomish tinkerer. I agree with party so far on this being a good starting strategy. If not, a tinkerer would surely know a different one if he'll admit he can't do it. Would definitely hurt the trust on the whole building living mecha horse thing.
3)Buying the mecha horse/first investment. Hopefully 30k is most of it.
4)Going to portals expert/wizard. Opportunity to ask eccentric fellow about how portals and things work.
Not sure anything there for kam to more directly bite onto though scenewise, so I'll try and make my own. :) Definitely interested in any opportunity to move back from orbiting the party at far arms reach to getting back into the party.
<Mari> roll 1d20+13 K:P, so Mari's thinking about stuff for obvious reasons and wondering about transformations and conversions and, well, a lot of crazy stuff happens out in the planes, you know? Does she remember anything that might tell her likely it is that she can keep control of herself while something like this happens?
* Hatbot --> "Mari rolls 1d20+13 K:P, so Mari's thinking about stuff for obvious reasons and wondering about transformations and conversions and, well, a lot of crazy stuff happens out in the planes, you know? Does she remember anything that might tell her likely it is that she can keep control of herself while something like this happens? and gets 25."12 [1d20=12]
Quote from: El Cideon on June 30, 2010, 03:05:03 AM
<Mari> roll 1d20+13 K:P, so Mari's thinking about stuff for obvious reasons and wondering about transformations and conversions and, well, a lot of crazy stuff happens out in the planes, you know? Does she remember anything that might tell her likely it is that she can keep control of herself while something like this happens?
* Hatbot --> "Mari rolls 1d20+13 K:P, so Mari's thinking about stuff for obvious reasons and wondering about transformations and conversions and, well, a lot of crazy stuff happens out in the planes, you know? Does she remember anything that might tell her likely it is that she can keep control of herself while something like this happens? and gets 25."12 [1d20=12]
Can it happen? Yes. There are stories of good vampires who earn another life through centuries of guarding those they are meant to hunt. Fiends have cast away the burdens of evil, becoming another bright light in the Heavens. Drow have forsaken the Spider-Queen. On the other side, fallen angels such as Baazlebub rule in Hell, while blackguards are often former paladins who strayed from the light. But it must be remembered that they are the exceptions to the rule. For every risen fiend or fallen angel, there are millions that never once stray from what they are.
If one erinyes in Baator becomes an angel once again, a million others revel in what they are. Certainly, it's not unheard of. But the vast majority of the time, you are what you are. Yugoloth are still evil. It's just as likely as cracking an egg over a hot pan, and seeing it freeze instead of cook.
---
Between-session upkeep time!
Okay, you guys have a night of rest. Restore spells and HP as appropriate. If anyone is casting healing spells before bed post so; Yulia can expend hers if needed to top you guys off. Are you guys going to do anything but rest up and go to the wizard tomorrow, assuming you go to him like you agreed?
I'm really starting to feel like I should apologize to Yulia for all the crazy shit that goes on around us, since she's been freaking out so much lately. But that's all I've got.
You, too? Actually I was thinking less 'apologize' and more 'justify'. >_>
I'm going to go ask that cleric about the items we are allegedly going to hunt down.
Do any of the rest of you want to talk to Yulia? If pretty much everyone does we'll start next session with it. Otherwise we may do this over the week as circumstances permit.
What I would talk to Yulia about in private (or just Mari) and with everyone else are two different things, I must admit.
I'd swing by Nikkolai possibly but I don't know if there's a scene there. Kam isn't much for thumping folks with guilt, more it's a disaster to be surmounted and all. Truthfully, I don't think a group apology session fits, though quiet one on ones might for yulia. I'll leave that to others as it'd be weird if we all do it and really Mari or Nikkolai make the most sense there.
The cleric thing seems more like a board question. Though Kam would also be interested in the answer. Kam would also be interested in us GIing the lands he was talking about, so we get other opinions on it than his own. I think we're still good food and water wise as its really been mere days since we bought enough supplies for a month.
Point Knight. Okay, we'll see how it goes and how I feel to running things then.
Quote from: Dracos on July 01, 2010, 01:52:57 AM
I'd swing by Nikkolai possibly but I don't know if there's a scene there. Kam isn't much for thumping folks with guilt, more it's a disaster to be surmounted and all. Truthfully, I don't think a group apology session fits, though quiet one on ones might for yulia. I'll leave that to others as it'd be weird if we all do it and really Mari or Nikkolai make the most sense there.
The cleric thing seems more like a board question. Though Kam would also be interested in the answer. Kam would also be interested in us GIing the lands he was talking about, so we get other opinions on it than his own. I think we're still good food and water wise as its really been mere days since we bought enough supplies for a month.
Cleric thing?
You're fine on food water and can restock in town in any event.
Quote
I'm going to go ask that cleric about the items we are allegedly going to hunt down.
Could we just get a board blurb? Seems like a rather short scene if any of us really do it.
Okay. You guys can ask the cleric about it, then choose to suppliment it with Knowledge: Arcana and Knowledge: Planes checks to learn more.
From the priest: The Icedrop Mandala is a forgotten palace. In it lie treasures of great Cold, or so the stories say. Thousands of years ago an ambitious Prime Material Wizard transported the entire palace from the Prime to Cold. After his death it was abandoned and the rumors of great treasure began. The Crown of Cold grants great mastery over ice and the robe of frost bestows complete immunity to cold.
<Dracos> roll 1d20+6 K:P
<Hatbot> ACTION --> "Dracos rolls 1d20+6 K:P and gets 25." [1d20=19]
Kam has been doing a lot of reading lately. Clearly this has helped. He is pondering any details dangers traveling to the area and about the area mostly, though of course he probably only read myths about the place. :)
Soo I have a few hundred gold lying around and we're heading a plane of elemental cold. Any chance of getting something to ride for the interim whilst my real mount is being prepared?
Like... a mammoth. Or a riding sled, with accompanying dogs. Mush!
Quote from: Dracos on July 02, 2010, 01:33:54 AM
<Dracos> roll 1d20+6 K:P
<Hatbot> ACTION --> "Dracos rolls 1d20+6 K:P and gets 25." [1d20=19]
Kam has been doing a lot of reading lately. Clearly this has helped. He is pondering any details dangers traveling to the area and about the area mostly, though of course he probably only read myths about the place. :)
The Para-elemental plane of Ice and Cold is a vicious place. You'll be entering a region known as the Precipice. When you pass from Air to Cold, you will find yourselves in a region of bitter ice and eternal snowfall. Great mountains of ice rise up like the hands of a frozen god, frost and cold mephits dancing in the festivities. Far above you Air will form the sky, making sure cruel winds constantly fly about. Unlike Air, there is gravity and an objective sense of down.
For dangers, the first and foremost is the cold. Non-magical winter clothing will reduce the cold damage to a mere 1d6 per round. Magical effects, cold resistance or sufficient fast healing is required to prevent your swift deaths from cold. Nikkolai's Planar Attunement can shield against this cold. Second of all, it's not very bright. There's bits of refracted and reflected light from Air, but dimmer than even Shivra. Further, with the constant snow-winds, visibility is poor. Often the only thing you see are momentary glimpses of the great mountains ahead.
There are far greater and more unique dangers, like fabled regions of 'true cold' where even thoughts, light and concepts freeze. However, these are a bit outside of Kam's knowledge and hopefully you won't have to deal with them. Right?
(Non Kam people since he rolled, if you want to roll for more info or explore a concept he knows about, feel free.)
Quote from: Carthrat on July 02, 2010, 08:39:39 AM
Soo I have a few hundred gold lying around and we're heading a plane of elemental cold. Any chance of getting something to ride for the interim whilst my real mount is being prepared?
Yes. First of all you can get a heavy warhorse for 500 GP. For more unique methods, you could rent a sled+dogs for 1000 GP, with a 750 GP refund on returning the dogs and sled intact. Alternately you could just buy one for 850 GP. Woolly Mammoths are possible but expensive and require special training. If you want to pursue one it costs 7,500 GP. The stats are in Frostburn if you're curious.
Oh yeah. Everyone, update party status and go ahead and max out your HP in #elysium's topic. I'm assuming overnight rest+healing does the trick.
Ok.
I want to negotiate with.. uh... the mammoth dealer... is there, like, a ranch or something? Anyhow! I'll negotiate with him to try and rent a mammoth, or buy one with an eye to reselling it, should it survive. Same thing to me. I assume that'll have an up-front cost, but I'll get some money back when I return with it.
But I don't have that kind of money lying around, since I'm going to invest it into my horse! Therefore, I'll also talk to the tinker; I'll ask if I can pay him 17500 now and leave my keen sword as collateral (8k). I can then use the remainder of those funds to fund said mammoth. On my return, I can then sell the mammoth again.
So basically, the transactions would go like this.
-Pay portion of the mecha-horse fee; leave magic sword behind as a deposit on paying the rest.
-Use remainder of funds to buy mammoth for upcoming trip.
-Upon return from upcoming trip, resell mammoth, as previously arranged.
-Use funds gained from reselling mammoth to finance rest of horse, along with whatever else is necessary to fill any gaps.
If there's a simpler method please let me know. Mammoths are insanely badass, though, oi. o-O
Hmm. This also does rely on a mammoth being immediately available. They're kinda huge- I assume I don't actually fight from the top of it, and more dedicate my efforts to controlling it? Y'know, it is kinda huge, could more than one guy fit on it?
Quote from: Carthrat on July 02, 2010, 09:26:08 AMOk.
I want to negotiate with.. uh... the mammoth dealer... is there, like, a ranch or something? Anyhow! I'll negotiate with him to try and rent a mammoth, or buy one with an eye to reselling it, should it survive. Same thing to me. I assume that'll have an up-front cost, but I'll get some money back when I return with it.
But I don't have that kind of money lying around, since I'm going to invest it into my horse! Therefore, I'll also talk to the tinker; I'll ask if I can pay him 17500 now and leave my keen sword as collateral (8k). I can then use the remainder of those funds to fund said mammoth. On my return, I can then sell the mammoth again.
So basically, the transactions would go like this.
-Pay portion of the mecha-horse fee; leave magic sword behind as a deposit on paying the rest.
-Use remainder of funds to buy mammoth for upcoming trip.
-Upon return from upcoming trip, resell mammoth, as previously arranged.
-Use funds gained from reselling mammoth to finance rest of horse, along with whatever else is necessary to fill any gaps.
If there's a simpler method please let me know. Mammoths are insanely badass, though, oi. o-O
Hmm. This also does rely on a mammoth being immediately available. They're kinda huge- I assume I don't actually fight from the top of it, and more dedicate my efforts to controlling it? Y'know, it is kinda huge, could more than one guy fit on it?
The gnome's willing to go along with it, he's happy to build anything pretty much. You can sell an intact mammoth back for 5000 GP, making a net cost of 2.5k. You'd be controlling it since it's a huge creature; the entire party could ride on it if they wished.
I'm for this. Are we for this? >_>
Anything that makes travel faster is cool with me, to be honest. Since I ended up having to cut into the party's expenses unexpectedly, I have no problem with the expenses.
Mammoth riding sounds awesome. And as always, I'm down to pull translation duties to help Knight give the critter more complex commands if she wants.
I dunno if it really makes it faster. It's not a real mount that can be fought on. It's somewhat expensive.
It's also kinda cool. I mean you don't often see woolly mammoths getting used in games. So neutral, leaning toward it.
Knight should be able to lance things from it's back just fine, I'd think? The rest of us would need to bail to fight, though it might be good for Nikki to stay on the mammoth to cast from as well.
That'd be 3.5 votes yes. Guess we be mammoth riding :)
Anyhow, while we'll likely get this from the wizard at start of session, Kam is willing to listen to/briefly investigate maps/navigation advice from the locals of the general region.
Quote from: Gatewalker on July 02, 2010, 03:14:41 PM
Knight should be able to lance things from it's back just fine, I'd think? The rest of us would need to bail to fight, though it might be good for Nikki to stay on the mammoth to cast from as well.
Kam's got reach as well, though both of them are 10 feet. In a really complex riding fasion, you could argue everyone can get some squares that they get to attack, but nobody can get all around the Mammoth if I recall my huge scale right...which I don't.
3x3 scale would mean that hitting the squares that are forward, back, and sides directly from the center would be doable with 10 foot reach. Eeeeh, not talkin' on it anymore unless we have to. It's really complicated to do it without either handwaving or minitures.
It's not about speed, it's about enormous crushing power vs. anything cryonax chooses to throw at us, really. (Although it does actually double our speed because it moves twice as fast as me, our slowest member. Yay!)
I think an advantage of it is that it gives us a solid base to fight from, and in a plane of howling winds and eternal blizzards that's quite the plus. You might lose sight of a human, but a mammoth is a big, looming shadow that can make a loud trumpeting sound. Only Kam can really wander around apart from it, due to blindsense amulet. Adail and Yulia could get lost so easily if they get even a short distance away from us...
I've no idea on attacks; I know at least that Knight will need one hand free to guide the mammoth, and it may well be a full-time job.
True, anyhow, as I said, I think you have effective consensus unless Mari's gonna argue everyone out.
But you are right. I thought possibly yulia and adail also had low-light vision (I think that's what will be relevant most the time rather than outright blindsense, at least from Ko's desc), but Kam alone has it, and only due to the amulet.
So we'll want some kind of convenient unextinguishable by cold form of light because even if we're protected magically, I'd expect torches to be kind of wacky. If there's a reasonable non-magical option (Special iron lanterns or something) that would be wise to pick up. Otherwise, magical.
Let's get some of these?
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/goodsAndServices.htm#everburningTorch
110gp each!
Down with that. Kam will buy 1. Or...actually maybe Adail and Nikkolai should get them? They're the two that can best fight while also holding a torch thing.
I guess Yulia in the worst case can also be a ball of light.
I could hang mine off the mammoth's tusk? Headlights!
Woolly Mammoths have an intelligence score of 2. Remember you'd need to keep the commands simple, but you could do it, Adail.
Also while all of you are around, if any of you are making any other checks on Drac's info or the original info prompt, say so and do so. I'm doing prep tonight and over the weekend, so the sooner the better.
Quote from: Carthrat on July 02, 2010, 03:41:08 PM
I could hang mine off the mammoth's tusk? Headlights!
The Mammoth option increases in coolness by the moment.
Clearly we also need steel caps for our mammoth's tusks and a giant flag announcing our arrival.
Fuck, I'm totally for getting a giant flag and brazenly waving it around. What would be on it? An incomplete deck of cards over a green field?
Quote from: Anastasia on July 02, 2010, 03:43:41 PM
Also while all of you are around, if any of you are making any other checks on Drac's info or the original info prompt, say so and do so. I'm doing prep tonight and over the weekend, so the sooner the better.
Quote
Anyhow, while we'll likely get this from the wizard at start of session, Kam is willing to listen to/briefly investigate maps/navigation advice from the locals of the general region.
If anyone wants to GI that or if an enterprising merchant wants to try and sell that kind of thing. Mainly wondering for "When Things go Wrong and We fall off the mountainside" and/or 'hey we're already gearing up for a dangerous trip out there, are there other neat places to loot nearby?'
Quote from: Carthrat on July 02, 2010, 03:47:43 PM
Fuck, I'm totally for getting a giant flag and brazenly waving it around. What would be on it? An incomplete deck of cards over a green field?
As cool as that is (and I'm down with incomplete deck of cards), I think the freezing blizzard winds and low visibility would make that less satisifying than it might be.
Maybe your mechahorse can have a flag wave feature.
Okay, most of you updated the party status posts. Thanks! Gate and Zeph, make sure to update yours before we start. Gate, if you miss tonight don't worry about it. I'll assume you just rememorized whatever crossed out spells you have in the topic and you can reset it before next week's session.
[16:51] <@Knight> Can we switch the casting times of sending and teleport/greater teleport?
I have no objection to buffing up sending. Teleport I care very little about, as I wasn't planning on giving it to you guys much except as a plot/dramatic device.
Is that a y or an n on the teleport? NPCs exist, etc.
For now it's a 'I'll talk to you in PM because I went through four revisions of this post and holy fuck I can't quite find the words'.
THINGS TO DO IN THE QORRASHI CAMP:
1. Tell a story, get a story told back. It's a quid pro quo, you tell a story and you'll get one told back.
2. Eat, drink, sleep. The Qorrashi lack alcohol, but they have small quantities of non-frozen water if you need that, as well as non-frozen food. They're happy to share them with travelers who can appreciate ruined, unfrozen food.
3. Visit the local apothecary. He is a Qorrashi wiseman, offering potions of first and second level spells for sale at 110% of SRD standard, and third level potions for 125% SRD standard.
4. Barter. You can try and trade something you have for something else - this requires a gather info mod to find something you want and to get attention for your own item. Things that interest the Qorrashi (K:P check here) will get a bonus to the GI check.
5. Buy and sell with the Elder Qorrashi. You can sell any item of up to 10,000 GP value to him, he'll accept any non-fire, non-dedicated to Cyronax item. He also has a few things for sale:
Ice Axe: 12 GP. 1d6 x4 martial weapon. Grants a +2 circumstance bonus on climb checks in mountainous and icy terrain.
Snowshoes: 25 GP. Wearing these greatly reduces the penalties to moving in snow. Snowy terrain is considered normal for you and not difficult terrain while wearing these. They take a minute to put on and a full round action to remove.
Freeze Powder: 133 GP. As per Frostburn. (Alchemical equipment section.)
Ice Chalk: 25 GP. As per Frostburn. (Alcheical equipment section.)
Scroll of Detect Fire: 50 GP.
Scroll of Arctic Haze: 410 GP.
Ring of Floating: 4,000 GP.
Ring of the White Wyrm: 75,000 GP.
I'll trade a story for a story!
Give them a story then. Get talking(Typing!) and then you'll get one back.
I'm always slow on these. Weekends being the best time and all. Dunno if I should put this over on the play boards really. Kind of difficult picking out a good one for a story but I think this one works. Too bad Kam wasn't alive for Adail's feat, or that would've made a fun story to do. A battle story of course for Kam.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Kamvakua nodded to the request, sitting with them, huddled close in a circle, thankfully with cloth over the icy benches. He leaned near in a conspiratorial fashion, quietly starting as he eyed the Quorrashi that had chosen to join him; "There is nothing quite like a Yugoloth ferryman. Their trips are voyages brushing very edges of mortality."
He leaned back. "We were in the Abyss, having cause to head to the 36th level and retrieve a dangerous treasure that had been lost there. One of the few ways to get from the 1st level to anywhere is to ride along the river Styx, and so we sought a ferryman to take us, for the river Styx is no ordinary river. It is something grander and more horrible than you would ever find in this land of comforting snow," He tugged his furs closer to keep the warmth in. "Fully the length of fifty men across at even its narrow points, and so deep you could not hope to see the bottom, at some times peacefully calm and others raging fiercely, tossing any boat along it about like a toy. It's true horror though was something deeper, for a single gulp of its waters would erase your very memories, to even have a few drops hit you was to risk your mind, and to be submerged in its waters was to be no more."
He smiled a bit, "So of course, we dared not brave its waters blindly. We did not have a ship ourselves, so we traveled into one of the daemonic cities, hunting down and finding a demon known for honest business, even though he was a Yugoloth. The least bad of terrible options. We secured his services with gold coin and soon found ourselves rushing from the city with all haste. They didn't like us very much there..." His eyes glanced about the party in a playful hint, "I wonder why."
"The yugoloth though, he was tall and thin, wrapped in black and looking like death warmed over. He never spoke, not with his mouth. His shallow tones instead came right into your mind, rippling down your spine and peering into your thoughts. Thankfully, he didn't talk much. He had a small raft, maybe twenty feet across each way, but sturdy enough as he took us down the river with all swiftness, leading us through the turns and fogs and twists with the steady hand of one who lived upon the shores. It was enough to relax one even in face of the hellish landscape. At least we'd paid for a competent one."
"The fog though, was getting thick rolling over the boat as he said with simple calmness, 'Prepare for Descent'. The bastard had lead us a quick way of course and we didn't have much time to ready ourselves as we heard a thundering roar growing in the distance, water churning as we all grabbed on tight to raft...as it flew over a waterfall, slamming down as it began a long and tumultuous fall, the lethe water spraying all around us as floating above now that we could see were these horrific creatures, fire spewing from the back of human looking skulls as they screamed and twirled, charging right down into us as we tried to get standing, tearing at us to rip the flesh right off our bodies with their teeth. We struggled to standing, carefully trying not to fall off into the deadly drench behind and below us as we fought them off." Kamvakua paused a moment.
"But it wasn't going to be as easy as all that. Of course not a one of them attacked our ferryman, calmly standing in the middle of it all, ignoring the whole thing. A shadow approached along the water while we were distracted by the skulls, and out of it, leaping right over us, nearly taking Knight's brother arm right off at the shoulder, blood flying everywhere was...a giant lethe shark. The thing was huge. A good twenty five feet long at least with jaws that could crush a man in just one bite. He splashed down behind us, sending that damned water everywhere too and swimming around, taking his time hunting us as we were trapped there on that raft, falling down toward who knows where."
Kam stood up, pulling out his spear and holding it up readily. "So there we stood, wondering when it was next going to come, and from where, each of us fending off as best we could the skulls and their friends, some ape creatures that felt like blasting us as they flew along above the waters. I lift my spear...and it comes again, leaping for knight this time and nearly managing to catch her right in its jaws as she dove under it. I cut it as it flies overhead, slicing a long bloody streak along its side. But it's not done yet by far. It comes around for another pass. It seemed to have a taste for knight as it flew at her...and I harpooned it, the sheer weight of the thing nearly tearing my arms out as I yanked it back and slammed it into the raft. A lucky thing that the raft stayed together, the weight of it smashing down, nearly knocking us all down as we leaped on the creature, hacking and slashing it to bits."
"And the ferryman in all this simply told us to hold tight... as not moments later we smashed down into the water, sending up a huge spray of it as we landed, lucky to still have our lives."
Aside: Does the resting in Quorrashi camp cover a recovery cycle? *eyes hp slightly, and abilities*
So just asking here for later curiousity.
In a non-hypothetical fashion, I get cold resistance 10 next level. What would that mean? Pretty much everything on Energy Resistance assumes if you're getting it innately, it's simply raising by intervals of 5 or 10, and if you're getting it magically, highest one only (no stacking). These seem to be 2 innates, which isn't really covered well. Blindest reading is Cold Resist 15 and the class feature gets ignored, but wondering what it ends up being here.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#resistanceToEnergy
You don't get cold res 10 next level, you get cold res 5. That aside, I'd rule they stack.
Coolness. And right, number failure on my end.
Since Kam has some frostburn damage and a good knowledge roll about it was made in session, here you go.
FROSTBURN DAMAGE AND YOU:
So Granny comes scrying along to see how you're doing and what's this? The goliath's gotten himself frostburn damaged! By drinking coldfire, no less? Granny thinks Missy is rubbing off on you! See, Granny knows about Frostburn damage. Granny knows it's the sort of thing little Missies and reckless sorcerers get themselves into! Do you see Adail with Frostburn damage? He's such a wise, mature musteval! You'd do good to listen to him! You can't live up to a celestial while you're alive, but you can learn from them! Do you see him going around and drinking from strange fountains?
Ah, where was Granny? Frostburn damage! It's like being cold all over and you don't get better! You won't heal naturally! It's like the vile hexes a fiend can lay on you, where the wound just won't fix itself! You need magic to heal the damage, a million nights of rest won't make it better. But it gets worse, Granny knows! Unless it's warmer than freezing out there, the priest is going to have to struggle! Oh, they'll struggle! The basest acolytes won't even have a chance, and even skilled priests can stumble, fail and sputter out! The best way to fix it is to get somewhere warm and let a cleric mend you right up! Since Granny is sure you're near nowhere warm, good luck with that!
Mari has extra body heat, right? Maybe Kam just needs some personal attention to get warmed up!
No, seriously, that's all I've got, guys. Don't look at me, I'm not the team mage.
The only solution I can think of is me using Fire Shield and jut hugging the hell out of Kam.
As Dune pointed out, this would give Kam fire damage. This *can* be offset by healing, but it will take effort and is time consuming.
Quote from: El Cideon on July 23, 2010, 09:01:40 PM
Mari has extra body heat, right? Maybe Kam just needs some personal attention to get warmed up!
No, seriously, that's all I've got, guys. Don't look at me, I'm not the team mage.
Kam approves of Mari's plan :D
Technically, we've got two real options:
Option A (Which I assumed I had to go with and was already plotting on): Kam heals up everything but the frostburn damage. This puts him at a mighty 55 hp. 75 when raging to his death. Basically 2 hard hits or 4 weak ones...or a fireball. Basically, this leaves Knight taking main tank/frontline duty entirely for the rest of the dungeon. Kam needs to be extra careful.
Truthfully, I think this is kinda more epic. And despite my massive get killed count, I'm mostly fine with trying to survive.
Option B) We try and get him healed here. We're talking a 1-2 days sitting around in front of Palace Deathtrap. Prolly better for my chance of survival at the cost of everyone else's. Here we got the fire shield of 'why am I doing this, ow!' or the Fiery Hug of Doom (What an awesome way to Go :P). It's overall the delaying/cautious choice somewhat in line with what we've been making the way up here (Outvoting rat usually to do it)
Given my tendancy to get killed, what are others opinions, stated that way :P
I'm for pressing onward. I don't want to spend a couple of days not being in motion here. Someone/something might notice us and have time to whip up something horrible to send our way. Quickly in, quickly out.
I could loan you my +con belt for the duration of our trip. I'll still be at 100+ HP, so it's probably okay.
Two things to keep at the front of our thoughts whilst here.
1) Nikk, don't die. If you die, we're fucked for going home. So don't die. <_<
2) Let's keep anticold stuff up at all times. I'm going to be swilling my potion immediately, and if that expires begging for resistance spells.
You can have mine as well really. I probably won't need it.
Borrowing your +2? con belt is a good step in the survive. I don't actually see that on your sheet (Blindness?), but yeah, 10-20 extra hp here would certainly not hurt.
So we're 2 votes for 'Kam can take it, ...and hopefully for real!'
Hmm. That's because I don't have one!
Sorry, I dunno why I thought that. I know I've been meaning to buy one at some point, but other shiny things got in the way...
If you guys rest, having Adail memorize a few Bear's Endurances could help.
Which last for all of 4 minutes, yes. <_<
Yeah that would. Kind of weird how that is excluded from Kam's list, otherwise he could do it.
Anyhow, I'm not hearing much fervor for us camping for days. Bear's Endurance+Rage would have me sitting at a happy 95ish hp...but it would also be a false hp as both of those are hp lost last, so what it really would provide is a 40 hp 'stay alive for this fight' buffer before I died. At least, assuming it ends up being needed.
4 charges of CLW wand.
<Dracos2> roll 1d8+1
<Hatbot> ACTION --> "Dracos2 rolls 1d8+1 and gets 5." [1d8=4]
<Dracos2> roll 1d8+1
<Hatbot> ACTION --> "Dracos2 rolls 1d8+1 and gets 2." [1d8=1]
<Dracos2> roll 1d8+1
<Hatbot> ACTION --> "Dracos2 rolls 1d8+1 and gets 9." [1d8=8]
<Dracos2> roll 1d8+1
<Hatbot> ACTION --> "Dracos2 rolls 1d8+1 and gets 4." [1d8=3]
Can someone update the topic? That brings me to 55/55 (66 frostburn)
Done.
Suggestion to temporarily trade +2 con amulet for Bahamut Amulet. This work alright?
Camping out to get Kam fixed up would be fine if we had time/a place for it. I dunno if we do. I'm sure there's more unpleasantness residing in the castle and sleeping there would surely draw its attention. And where else could we rest nearby?
Casually tossing this out there: Adail, would playing Monday next week be viable for you and let you catch the session? If so, can we all actually make Monday?
I'll need to check with Jenna. Solid answer in an hour or two at most.
EDIT: Yeah, should be able to play on the 2nd.
Yay Monday~! :D
Then let's take a quick poll: Can all of us make Monday?
Yes
I can be here any time I'm not at work, so yes.
I think Drac's said he can make it, so that leaves Zeph. If any of you see Zeph in chat club him over here for me.
This monday is fine with me. Are we talking a permanent day change? And if so, the time won't change, correct?
This is a one off change so Gate only misses two sessions instead of three.
yeah, *nods*
Remember, planar starts in about 28 hours from now!
Man that was long.
Props to the group and DM for surviving to finish.
Hey Ko, in wrap up sense, I know of two things currently on Kam's list:
A)Cow/eliminate the Giant as any remaining threat. Kam is perfectly fine with having him drop his weapon/(any additional tribute he wants) and letting him flee with the understanding that he is giving up the sword forever (Saying since I'm pretty sure after that show, we can bully him into it). In either case, Kam is not finished as long as he is still in the palace and armed. Kam believes in pacifists frost giants, and hopes said giant has suddenly had a turn of faith to believe in them too :P. Anyhow, interested in this, glad to play it out if desired, whether as a quick solo session or at the start of next session.
B)Resting, we'd probably camp a bit outside the palace proper with Serith and Adail standing guard.
C) Following this we'd head back in and hope at least the main devilry of the place is broken and we can mop up looting thoroughly, but Kam definitely is not too hopeful there. He is though alive, so that's good :)
Also, given it turned out to be a bit of a nusiance, can we name, label, number batches of identical enemies? We definitely had some communication pain late in the session with me trying to declare which of the three bone devils I was attacking and trying to declare between two that to me had identical descriptions "Yeah, one of the ones that isn't being attacked by knight and close (but not on top of) adail." I know I didn't help as I didn't care which one I hit (they were effectively two identical enemies to me with a third I was ignoring), but I also couldn't just say 'bone devil C' to pick one randomly for you to know what I was doing.
Wrap-up stuff will be done at the start of next session. We'll sort it out then since we ended abruptly last time. Remember, it's just Zeph+Mari+Kam next session so you three may want to talk privately and get our shit together. Knight and Adail will be on robo-NPC duty.
Quote from: Dracos on August 03, 2010, 05:28:24 PMAlso, given it turned out to be a bit of a nusiance, can we name, label, number batches of identical enemies? We definitely had some communication pain late in the session with me trying to declare which of the three bone devils I was attacking and trying to declare between two that to me had identical descriptions "Yeah, one of the ones that isn't being attacked by knight and close (but not on top of) adail." I know I didn't help as I didn't care which one I hit (they were effectively two identical enemies to me with a third I was ignoring), but I also couldn't just say 'bone devil C' to pick one randomly for you to know what I was doing.
Okay.
Inspired answer I know, but I'll just label them ABC and so on next time.
Totally fine with that :) It's a simple thing but it would've helped us there.
> roll 8#1d100
* Hatbot --> "Kotono rolls 8#1d100 and gets 225." [8#1d100 = 28, 17, 49, 2, 19, 50, 33, 27]
The RNG was extremely kind to you guys! Your trip back to Shivra is without incident by some blessed miracle. En route all wounds are healed, adjust topic HP as needed. The first order of business will be handing over the crown and robe and books! After that, what are your guys plans in Shivra? Be as loose or detailed as you want, as well as if you're going to get thing appraised/IDed.
Each of you will be getting a PM as well, check it before you reply here. (The exception is Adail, who was away next session and I'll talk to you in PM.) If you don't get a PM by tomorrow evening, poke me to make sure I didn't make a mistake.
They'll call me Mecha-Knight when I'm through with this!
(Actually I wanted to ask, I was thinking of taking my next level in rogue to have +skillz, but I was hoping to use the variant that gets bonus feats instead of sneak attack. Is that possible?)
I don't think we're leveling right now? Or just future plans?
Kam's order of business:
1)Return Crown and Robe. Geases are bad and the sooner ours is fulfilled the safer we will all be.
2)Negociate with Wizard opening a portal to Arborea, right to the court of stars if he can (he probably can't). Pay whatever price really he wants for it. If it can be done immediately, let's go. Even though it makes me cry. If it takes hours or a day, continue reading.
3)Sell/Ident stuff. First pass already there for analysis.
4)Get Kam in a warm room and get him healed back to normal.
5)Ponder PM of confusion. :)
Quote from: Carthrat on August 10, 2010, 05:01:59 AM
They'll call me Mecha-Knight when I'm through with this!
(Actually I wanted to ask, I was thinking of taking my next level in rogue to have +skillz, but I was hoping to use the variant that gets bonus feats instead of sneak attack. Is that possible?)
I have no objection.
Quote from: Dracos on August 10, 2010, 12:04:12 PM
I don't think we're leveling right now? Or just future plans?
I haven't said anything about levelling. <_<
For the rest of your stuff, waiting on the others to chime on if you'll rush to leave Shivra immediately or what.
Yeah, was just surprised by Knight bringing it up. :) I didn't think we were.
I assumed we'd at least take a day or to knock out that geas, get magical IDs and Kam healing in order.
For the sake of something to do, Mari's interested in asking around town to see if any locals might know more about heretical magic ice bitch is using. Not just asking outright about HERETICAL MAGIC obviously, but experts on fey and how they work maybe. Nik could potentially turn this up on his own by asking Balinbom, but Mari doesn't just want to sit around in the inn right now. She might wind up thinking about stuff. Her alternative is getting so smashed that she doesn't remember her name, but this sounds more useful.
I should also have a statue finished by now, so we should totally swing by and check it out at some point.
Can we go to Elysium? Or Arcadia? Or any good-aligned plane we haven't gone to before? If we do indeed need to go to one? We need to focus, people! On goals!
Kam would strongly push for arborea because we know people there who would likely be both up to the task and willing to help immediately, whereas on other good aligned planes we would have to search. Kam's view is largely that we've passed the 'we'll solve this when we have a chance' with Mari and moved into 'We need to get her to a high powered divine good aligned help asap'.
Largely I view this as a quick sidetrip, likely with entailed favors needed afterwards, before we come back and curbstomp the ice bitch. Then we go on to other places :P
But at the moment it seems we're at least temporarily back into 'serious problem needs resolving yesterday'.
Edit: If I'm rushing us too much, lemme know. I personally like taking things laid back and all. just seems in character to take what happened to Mari as reason to move quickly for aid.
Quick poking in, haven't read everything yet, etc.
Adail would suggest Elysium over Arborea. He thinks they're better able to deal with Yugoloth badness being the polar opposite and he's very certain they'd be willing. Finding someone who can might be a problem, but Adail likely(haven't been over all this with Dune OOC yet, hence only 'likely', but he's actually FROM there and all, so.) knows people there who could help or point us to someone else better able to help. Also, good excuse to check Elysium for a Card.
Of course, if another Good plane has a portal that's closer/more accessable, that'll do. He definately agrees on the This Problem Needs Solving NOW, and if Mari is still unsure it's a big deal, he'll suggest we hire a Sending to Granny Tam so SHE can tell Mari how big of a deal it is. <_<
Well, where'ver we have powerful good contacts/patrons, that's fine. I'm definitely along the lines of 'hire nearby portal specialist' rather than go portal hunting.
We're rushing basically all the time, let us not forget our overarching quests. Sidetrips are fine but we gotta keep a good pace and kill as many birds-per-stone as we can.
For what it's worth, on our second trip to the ice plane I actually want to go find the sibling I've got lost there, rather than leave and be forced to come back later again.
Uh? Do we? That seems even more rushy. I'm perfectly fine with us taking a trip to x place for one side quest without it fulfilling 3 or 4. It's nice going back to areas we've already been and also catching up with NPCs we encountered there.
I mean I guess I don't really get the 'we should go get some quests and handle things in a new plane' rather than just go deal with it and come back to deal with the variety of icy quests we currently have (Ice Fae, Card on the ice plane). But both of those have no intrinsic time rush on them. Neither does hitting other planes later. The only really time critical elements are Mari and (possibly) the Lich, who metagamingwise has been fairly accommodating with not hammering us with summons/spells every day we don't go challenge her.
As far as our order of business goes, I think it should be thus:
A) Mari. I think that Mari should take precedent above all else. Remember that I have an angel in the wings that might be able to help us, unless she's gotten tired of hanging around the city. I might be able to ask her aid in exorcising Mari, if we don't want to waste time on a trip to another plane. Simultaneously, I suggest that I or someone else go to the Wizard and turn in the stuff. Surely he can remotely deactivate the geass.
B) I've thought long and hard about this, as far as priority goes. Nikkolai has had some rather...disturbing dreams, to say the least, about the Lich. He's really feeling a tug towards her. Time this stuff needs to be wrapped up and taken care of. On the other hand, there's his duty to Balinbomb and the Fey court, even if it isn't quite official yet, concerning this Fey chica who's messing around with stuff that she shouldn't. I'm going to say that the Fey chick needs to be taken care of first before we make any plans to make our way to the prime. I'll be chatting with Balinbomb on this angle to see if anything needs to be done. Who knows? He might be able to take care of things himself.
C) Take care of various and sundry things like identify/sell/buy stuff that we need. If there's some money left over, I'd dearly love to get a Greater Wand of Metamagic. The more damage I do, the better.
Okay! I think the crux of what happens is two things: Returning to get the geases undone and dealing with Mari. There's a lot of suggestions here on how this can be handled. Guys, I'd like you guys to make up your mind on how you want to deal with this. Will you guys go to Elysium or Arborea as suggested? What about Zeph's girlfriend? I'd like a consensus so I can plan and prep; so talk and decide away guys.
Quote from: Zephyrus on August 11, 2010, 12:10:59 AM
C) Take care of various and sundry things like identify/sell/buy stuff that we need. If there's some money left over, I'd dearly love to get a Greater Wand of Metamagic. The more damage I do, the better.
Says mr 382 best round :P *teases*
so, I'm gonna suggest something a bit crude here. I listen and hear the 'go to elysium and check out with Adail's friends' as a cool option...but I also spot that adail is gone for the first two sessions of us dealing with this and I have trouble picturing that it's going to take us 3 weeks of play to get to this bit wrapped up, or at least be solidly on a clear path on it. So basically, whatever route we choose it's going to really be just Nikki, Mari, and Kam playing it out with Knight and Adail largely following. Not that its cool to discount folks opinions because they're gone for a bit, but...
Basically, I'm not cool with heading somewhere where our lead PC is being robot played and not available, nor do I really think its a great time to push ahead on finding new cards while Knight is unavailable to play mind games with. It certainly would be a disappointing way in my opinion to introduce one of Adail's big backstory elements. I'm certain we'll have an excuse to head to Elysium later. In Arborea both Nikkolai and I have active connections to tap to help solve the problem.
So given who's actively around to play the scenes out, I think the only real options are Arborea, Earth, or 'Dm dropped alternative through nearby church/wizard'. So really just Arborea. Mari/Nikki, do you oppose this? If not, there's a consenseus and Dune can start deciding what crazy adventures hit us there. And maybe give us a heads up on the going rate for a portal to Arborea from wizard dude.
Aside, idea for nikkolai:
Even if we have to give up the books, nothing says you couldn't have been reading/copying some of them during the 2ish day trip sitting on a mammoth back to the town.
Yes, Mari knows it's a serious problem and will not be inclined to stay anywhere alone at the moment for fear of what she might do. She might not want to divert the entire party for her sake but you are free to ignore her if she objects. If she had to make a choice regarding the options suggested so far, it'd be Arborea. Just because.
OOC, this seems like a reasonable thing to do while Rat and Gate are away (because I personally don't like making everyone in a weekly game detour for my own affairs). Geas comes first, of course, but stopping by there shouldn't take long, I think.
~
As a random aside, are we returning Tusky now that we're back in Shivra?
Re: Tusky
That was the plan.
In fact for convenience, Knight should probably drop off Tusky and handle dealing with the mechanic horse training while rat is away. That way Knight is doing something toward her goals and doesn't need to be robo played, and we have a time limit to get things resolved or go back and pick up knight.
Re: From Kam's angle, a fellow party member being possessed or hunted by liches or otherwise takes precedence over most other objectives, including card hunting. Active danger toward a party member > desired wants of a party member.
I obviously agree solving Mari's issues first is necessary. I guess our options will be defined by the portals available to us.
After that, I guess I'm ready to pick and choose our goals from the lists offered. I kinda want to avoid backtracking later though, you know? If we go to plane X and a card is there then I want to go get it. Got plenty of IC reason to feel time-pressured there myself and it's not like we'll ever suddenly not be pressured, so. I'll refrain from making votes while I'm not playing, though, if I'm helping build shit in Shivra.
<Kallen-Raids-Mainland> roll 1d100 ?????
* Hatbot --> "Kallen-Raids-Mainland rolls 1d100 ????? and gets 59." [1d100=59]
> roll 3d10
* Hatbot --> "Kowork rolls 3d10 and gets 22." [3d10=9, 7, 6]
Knight eats the marble! Being glass this hurts like a son of a bitch! Oh, what was she thinking?! Fuck, she's bleeding out of her mouth and she can feel the glass sliding down her throat! It's treating her digestive track like it's ribbons to be shredded apart! OW! OW! OW! This makes her next little time an extremely unpleasant one. Stomach ache? Nothing compared to this. That time of the month? No big deal. This? This is PAIN. But despite it Knight feels...different after it. Like there is a crackling just beneath her fingertips, ready to be called forth.
Knight gains the Night Haunt feat from Complete Arcane as a bonus feat. http://dnd.savannahsoft.eu/feat-2054-night-haunt.html Your caster level for it is your hit dice, you may disregard the line of the feat that says it is only caster level 1.
1. Geas/Hand over crown/books/robe. This can be done at the start of next session since it's a group activity. It won't take long but does need to be done. If you guys are hopping off to one of the Realms Above for Mari, this will be broached there as well, I reckon.
2. Mari. This is obviously the first order of business. With deference to Gate being away at DLcon this next week, I'm inclined to tiebreak the party towards Arborea. Elysium is a chance for Adail to have the spotlight, it's meaningless if he's NPCed there. Adail, odds are you'll swing by Elysium a little down the line. It's a waste to do it when you're not here, you know? However, there is a second option. Zeph wants to talk to Calariel if she's still in town and see if she can help. She is; if you guys are interested in pursuing that angle I can have Zeph feel her out(For helping Mari...oh Mari, now sit on my lap. WHAM! BAD MARILOTH! BAD! I'LL SPANK THE EVIL OUT OF YOU!...er...where was I?) about helping.
3. Gather information on the ice-bitch. Mari, you can make GI on this, if you want aid another-ing feel free to enlist a person or two. You can take 10/20, but taking 20 takes money and time, remember. Zeph also can contact Balimbomb if he chooses about this, this can be done whenever.
Yeah, that's a reasonable start. If Calariel can help, then sure, we'll take her up and that and we're glad to ask.
If (by some chance), we resolve Mari quickly, I believe the next order of business is hunting the ice bitch and basically doing local adventures until Knight and adail can come back and then we can go after the Lich.
At least that's what I am thinking.
I don't see any harm in checking in with Calariel, no.
Anyway, GI done. I am thankful Dune let me make two attempts, for obvious reasons.
<Mari> roll 1d20+11 so are there any fey experts in town or does anyone know anything about ice bitch in particular?
* Hatbot --> "Mari rolls 1d20+11 so are there any fey experts in town or does anyone know anything about ice bitch in particular? and gets 12."12 [1d20=1]
<Mari> roll 1d20+11 AHEM! Ice Queen Mari DEMANDS your attention, peasants! Tell me everything you can think of about that horrible queen of winter!
* Hatbot --> "Mari rolls 1d20+11 AHEM! Ice Queen Mari DEMANDS your attention, peasants! Tell me everything you can think of about that horrible queen of winter! and gets 22."12 [1d20=11]
Go Ice Queen Mari.
So, when Mari kills the Ice Queen, does she ascend to her throne and become the Ice Queen? eh? eh?
Quote from: Anastasia on August 13, 2010, 12:58:02 PM
1. Geas/Hand over crown/books/robe. This can be done at the start of next session since it's a group activity. It won't take long but does need to be done. If you guys are hopping off to one of the Realms Above for Mari, this will be broached there as well, I reckon.
2. Mari. This is obviously the first order of business. With deference to Gate being away at DLcon this next week, I'm inclined to tiebreak the party towards Arborea. Elysium is a chance for Adail to have the spotlight, it's meaningless if he's NPCed there. Adail, odds are you'll swing by Elysium a little down the line. It's a waste to do it when you're not here, you know? However, there is a second option. Zeph wants to talk to Calariel if she's still in town and see if she can help. She is; if you guys are interested in pursuing that angle I can have Zeph feel her out(For helping Mari...oh Mari, now sit on my lap. WHAM! BAD MARILOTH! BAD! I'LL SPANK THE EVIL OUT OF YOU!...er...where was I?) about helping.
3. Gather information on the ice-bitch. Mari, you can make GI on this, if you want aid another-ing feel free to enlist a person or two. You can take 10/20, but taking 20 takes money and time, remember. Zeph also can contact Balimbomb if he chooses about this, this can be done whenever.
4. Heal up kam. Or are we handwaving the fire and healing, oh why are you burning me?!
Quote from: Dracos on August 13, 2010, 05:09:14 PM
Go Ice Queen Mari.
So, when Mari kills the Ice Queen, does she ascend to her throne and become the Ice Queen? eh? eh?
Well, someone's got to show all those poor amnesiacs how to live again!
You'll need to take leadership though. Nobody wants to take leadership, but its a mandatory queen feat.
If you can't get minions without Leadership you're doing it wrong. :(
You can get minions sure, but if you're getting your own kingdom, it's kind of expected...
Randomness:
Mari and Anastasia should get Planar avatars. Even if only posted here :P Knight shames the lot of us for having a new planar avatar every third day.
Find me one and maybe I'll use it. I dunno how much good art there is of girls with white hair.
Kam's healing is assumed and done without incident, since I figure now that you can get somewhere warm it gets done.
As for an avatar, I'm attached to this one. 'sides, what would I have...oh, I know. I'll make one soon.
Mari goes and asks around about the Ice Queen Cybelea! There's a few whispers about her. Real nasty Ice Queen, but keeps mostly to herself. But there are whispers that occasionally girls are lured or bought into her service. What this entails is a matter of some speculation:
1. The girls are trained by her to be servants to other ice fey.
2. The girls are sacrificed to winter, made into ice sculptures on their demise.
3. All the girls are transformed into fey, forever serving the Ice Queen.
4. The girls are melted down and frozen all over again, and through their blood they become the snow that falls all over Cold.
5...and so on and so on.
There's a lot of theories, pick whichever one you like.
Further, you hear that about two years ago, a bunch of adventurers lead by a pixie were asking around about the Ice Queen. They left for Cold and were never seen again. OOC: Mari, would you roll a will save and post the results here?
Just checking: was there a portal to Arborea around nearby/travel distance that we know of?
I don't think so, but just asking.
<Dracos> roll 1d20+4 asking at local temple (Gather Information roll)
<Hatbot> ACTION --> "Dracos rolls 1d20+4 asking at local temple and gets 12." [1d20=8]
Kam pokes around, but doesn't find anything indicating a portal to Arborea is nearby.
Thanks, was just memory checking really :)
Fair enough.
Okay Zeph, as a reminder! Hop on IRC if you can so we can do you talking to Calariel.
<Mari> roll 1d20+7 noooo, mysterious will saves, save me from them Hatbot!
* Hatbot --> "Mari rolls 1d20+7 noooo, mysterious will saves, save me from them Hatbot! and gets 19."12 [1d20=12]
Nothing else of note happens on the information gathering trip.
New avatar.
Nice.
So guys, where are we actually going next now that Mariloth is vanquished? Head back into Ice to clear up everything there, so we don't have to come back later? (Not that we don't want to come back, just interplanar travel is sometimes an imposing logistical obstacle.)
Probably. :) Rest up a bit, check in with Nikki's Fae lord, do some wrap up.
I'm at least trying to avoid declaring goals as I think Ko already had in mind leading us through some wrapup or smalla dventure. I could be wrong.
if push comes to shove though, yeah, Ice Bitch hunting.
Let me chat at Dune about talking with Balinbomb about Ice Queen chick. Mayhap he can take care of it or make our journey easier and/or faster if that's what we decide to do.
Personally? I vote that we start preparing ourselves for the Lich. I'm amenable to whatever the majority decides, however.
Quote from: Dracos on August 15, 2010, 09:34:52 PMI'm at least trying to avoid declaring goals as I think Ko already had in mind leading us through some wrapup or smalla dventure. I could be wrong.
Yeah, was more thinking about what people wanted to prioritize for later. I figured today would be mostly geas wrap-up/Nik talking to Balinbomb and the like. I'm cool just bumming around town if that's what the rest of the time comes to; Mari could surely use a break after recent events.
Kam shall take Mari dancing in the clouds with your new dress :P Timewasting! :D
Anyhow, we'll see in a few hours.
So, last night was kind of a wash due to the dread scourge of peer. I have to wonder, is anyone else interested in meeting up just to waste some time between now and next session? Just something light and silly (Mari could use it after recent events). Hell, could just be going drinking again (because that worked out so well last time).
I'm up for a small session like that. Would be fun. Any day or time you prefer?
Waargh...Prolly Prolly.
:)
Weeks kinda busy. Tonight, friday, only real openings.
So.
Thursday looks to be opening up.
I am time devouring. I devour this slot for Planar. Mari, Knight, and Nikkolai will show up. I have no idea why, but they shall I foresee.
There will be bar hopping, possibly dancing, possibly passing off Mari as a traveling fae queen for fun, possibly arguing with possibly not remembering what we were doing the next day.
Kotono might even stamp it with 'I have no idea what these folks were thinking, I was not even there for this, what the hell?'
:P
If this fails to happen tonight, it shall be tried again tomorrow, combined with beatings until the unscheduled session morale improves :P
Also for those who prefer in english: let's try for a side small session at 7:30ish today. We'll try not to cause trouble so Ko doesn't need to dm it (though ko presenceis always welcome :D)
Prior engagement here, so this is only possible if Persona doesn't run.
Cheers to everyone for a rather fun sudden surprise session! Sadness I somewhat drove Nikkolai into the TF2 arms (Sorry nikkolai!)
And hey, it even validated the whole 'it's good to have spare change' around philosophy! :D Fun stuff.
Eek, I'm 4 back, almost 5 back in Stats. Crazy, when did this happen!
You should've just told me you wanted to seduce Mari, and I would've kept out of your hair, too.
Quote from: Carthrat on August 20, 2010, 10:02:48 PM
You should've just told me you wanted to seduce Mari, and I would've kept out of your hair, too.
Quote from: Anastasia on August 20, 2010, 10:24:48 PM
Quote from: Carthrat on August 20, 2010, 10:02:48 PM
You should've just told me you wanted to seduce Mari, and I would've kept out of your hair, too.
Dune, I'm totally writing a Knight/Mari slashfic for you. Do I get anything in return? :D
Quote from: Zephyrus on August 20, 2010, 10:26:37 PM
Quote from: Anastasia on August 20, 2010, 10:24:48 PM
Quote from: Carthrat on August 20, 2010, 10:02:48 PM
You should've just told me you wanted to seduce Mari, and I would've kept out of your hair, too.
Dune, I'm totally writing a Knight/Mari slashfic for you. Do I get anything in return? :D
Can you prevent Mar and Knight from killing us? That is the more relevant question.
So long as I get a level in return (or a really nice spell!), I'm willing to run that risk!
Mari's hide modifier is +21. Nik has no wisdom mod and no ranks in spot.
There will be no survivors.
Unless Mari's ....busy.... with something else.
I don't know what you're talking about, but those ellipses are ominous.
I was hoping to imply you'd be busy with lewd acts with Knight.
Oh wait, I wasn't supposed to say that, was I? I'll go kick myself in penance.
I assumed I'd made it apparent that such things were not a possibility. So yes, penance.
A DM can tease, can't he?
Sure! As long as he's prepared for the consequences.
Poor dune. *sends him donuts to drown his dreams into*
A mere 31 hours until gametime! Time will invariably be beaten back until gaming shall commence!
MECHAMOUNT:
This is the basic model. There's a lot of room for the upgrades he mentioned, as well as general boosts to keep it relevant down the line. The main appeal is the construct trait immunity package, which is fucking aces.
Size/Type: Large Construct
Hit Dice: 12d10+30 (105 hp)
Initiative: +1
Speed: 60ft, fly 90ft (average)
Armor Class: 23 (+12 natural, +1 dex)
Base Attack/Grapple: +9/+19
Attack: Hoof+14 (1d6+6)
Full Attack: 2 Hooves+14 (1d6+6)
Space/Reach: 10ft/10ft
Special Attacks: -
Special Qualities: Construct traits, low-light vision, darkvision 60ft, resistance to fire 10, damage reduction 10/adamantine.
Saves: Fort +4, Ref +5, Will +4
Abilities: Str 22, Dex 13, Con -, Int -, Wis 10, Cha 10
Skills: -
Feats: -
Alignment: Neutral
Gear: -
That's a pretty bitching mount :) Watch our backs from the steamy skies, Knight :)
Character sheet updated. Pendant of coolness well missed ;_; Saving throws, also well missed ;_;
Condolences. May you find awesome stuff to make up for it.
Thanks Dune.
Anyhow, want to ask on a few things, tap out next agenda.
For Kam, his primary next agenda is:
1)Find clothing. Or at least a pair of pants. Certainly, he can survive without it, but his dignity and probably nikkolai's ego would prefer that he have A Decent Pair of Pants! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGQEAiZJMco). I don't know (or see) anything we can do to achieve this, but reaching out to my fellow party members to help improvise! :P
2)So, it's been an age since I've encountered Damaged items that were actually worth (or likely) to be kept around and weren't outright destroyed. I have 3 now. So I took a sec to go look up how that is handled:
Repairing Magic Items - http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Magic_Item_Basics#Repairing_Magic_Items
Some magic items take damage over the course of an adventure. It costs no more to repair a magic item with the Craft skill than it does to repair its nonmagical counterpart. The make whole spell also repairs a damaged—but not completely broken—magic item.
That's the book read anyhow. That isn't to say that's how it works in our universe, so asking: Is this how it works in our universe? If so, while Kam can't do anything about that right now, Adail and Yulia I think both have access to the level 2 make whole spell. While 3 castings would be awesome, Kam would really appreciate at next rest if 1 casting at least would be readied so he's not walking around with holes in his shoes for sharp rocks to push through. So, reaching out to you two. :) Halp? The armor and shield should hold together until we can get back to town and take our time with it, but if extra castings are available, I'll totally happily take them.
3)Taking a bit to really rest up before proceeding. While our offensive abilities are still mostly primed, we're pretty much dry on healing. Worse now that Kam's backup wand of CLW is melted. We all have some damage taken, and Kam at least is at under 50 percent hp.
4)We aren't afraid of no ice bitch. Proceed as previously planned.
I can probably memorize 2 at next rest period, sure. At least 1. Don't think Yulia can use 2nd levels yet, and since she's a Favored Soul, not a Cleric, I doubt she'd take that spell anyway.
Make whole is fine for most things. If you manage to damage an artifact or something really unusual it may take more steps, but make whole is fine for these purposes.
*nods* good to hear. Yeah, was basically (from the original chat lines some folks tossed out) half worried that damaged also meant it was effectively a loss. Checking the rules, I'm glad to see there's ways to restore what survived without sinking a bunch of extra gold into them as well.
Anyhow? Anyone have cloth? Extra sets of pants and sewing? :P
Was it Eva or Mari who has a few ranks in a sewing related skill?
Eva kinda. She didn't have a specific sewing skill. She did have lots of costumes, thread, and sewing needles, and Disguise. Pretty much took costume-making as part of disguise how she was doing it.
You can presumably use Mari's normal clothes since she's staying in the ice princess dress while we're here.
So you want Kam in a dress and panties, Mari? I seeeeee.
This was not an expected outcome by Kamvakua when he began the quest to get into Mari's pants. >_>;</p>
Speaking less realistically. Mari does have a spare traveler's outfit and cold weather outfit, which should probably fit if tight on Kam by virtue of Medium One Size Fits All being the entire range of human to goliath :P
I'd be more inclined to nitpick on clothes, though honestly, you could just fashion a dress into a loincloth or something. It's really not a big deal.
That was my assumption, Dune. Since, you know, nothing tailored for her is going to fit someone who's eight feet tall. (Also, Mari typically wears pants rather than dresses while running around adventurin'. Just more practical.)
That makes the ice octopus below very unhappy.
I do not comprehend.
ATTENTION!
Between now and game start, I'd like each of you to come into #elysium and roll 1d20, then post the results in this thread. No modifiers, just a flat d20. Thanks! The earlier you can do this the better!
<Mari> roll 1d20 WHAT IS HAPPENING TO ME?!?!
* Hatbot --> "Mari rolls 1d20 WHAT IS HAPPENING TO ME?!?! and gets 9."12 [1d20=9]
<Mari> roll 1d20 WHAT IS HAPPENING TO NAKED KAM?!?!
* Hatbot --> "Mari rolls 1d20 WHAT IS HAPPENING TO NAKED KAM?!?! and gets 16."12 [1d20=16]
Two down, three to go!
(Kam asked someone to roll for him since he's at work.)
Thanks Mari.
16:17 Zeph roll 1d20 This sounds very....foreboding
16:17 Hatbot --> "Zeph rolls 1d20 This sounds very....foreboding and gets 20." [1d20=20]
> d20 for whatever the Gossip board is about
* Hatbot --> "Hampoleon rolls d20 for whatever the Gossip board is about and gets 14." [d20=14]
[11:24] <YoungRat> roll 1d20
[11:24] * Hatbot --> "YoungRat rolls 1d20 and gets 12." [1d20=12]
The results are in! The winner of the first anniversary lottery is...Zephyrus! As the winner he gets the traditional gift of gamers worldwide: Pizza. A $20 dollar gift card to Papa John's in particular. Congratulations!
In the blue chest are four books. Each one has a name on them: Mari, Nikkolai, Adail, Kamvakua.
---
On returning you find the traps gone and the way back clear. The warm room is now expanded, soft beds and a hot meal awaiting you. Consuming it restores 1d8+5 hit points, feel free to roll this in #elysium whenever, adjust HP and post the results here.
Going to do anything with anything besides going to rest up?
Adail will blow the last of his spells for healing before resting. Will roll those shortly and edit them into this post
> roll 2d8+4 CMW Kam
<Kobot> Gate-sleeper rolled 2d8+4 CMW Kam --> [ 2d8=11 ]{15}
> roll 1d8+4 CLW Nik
<Kobot> Gate-sleeper rolled 1d8+4 CLW Nik --> [ 1d8=4 ]{8}
> roll 1d8+4 CLW Knight
<Kobot> Gate-sleeper rolled 1d8+4 CLW Knight --> [ 1d8=6 ]{10}
I'll look at the deck of cards?
Post results here, Adail.
Quote from: Carthrat on September 08, 2010, 03:13:50 AM
I'll look at the deck of cards?
You see lots of images: from dragons to demons to elves to orcs to goblins to harpies and more. There's a whole lot of them, 34 in total.
<Mari> roll 1d8+5 Mari is chowing down mystery food for healing
<Kobot> Mari rolled 1d8+5 Mari is chowing down mystery food for healing --> [ 1d8=3 ]{8}
Doesn't look like I need any healing spells by this point. Adjusted HP in #e, night's rest should take me to full.
Mari is totally going to crack open that book that has her name on it. I should totally try the spider cloak on to see what happens (seems appropriate for Mari due to past experience), but do unidentified magical items actually have effects?
They do, Mari. Going to still put it on and try?
Sure! Fashion show time!
Mari reads the book. It looks to be a series of complex exercises to bolster her endurance. Looks like it'll take her some study time to get them down, likely several days to a week.
Mari puts on the cloak! Webbing dances between her hands, her eyes turning to six spidery eyes! Her hands feel faintly sticky.
Adail will also peruse the book that has his name on it, as well as jokingly claim the greataxe with a completely straight face and deadpan expression just to see the looks on peoples faces. <_<
The book looks to be a series of koans, meditations and spiritual reflections. It will take some time to study and reflect on, but Adail can sense great wisdom in these lessons.
Well, that's weird. And a little disturbing. Mari will try climbing the walls to see if it's any easier this way before taking the thing back off and going to sleep.
Mari finds she can climb the walls like it's her second nature. Her hands, arms, elbows, knees and legs all stick to the wall, letting her climb on the sides or even upside down from the roof.
Neat.
Also, for everyone else: do we want to check out the couple unexplored doors before we leave this place? It sounds like the worst of the traps went away with Balance, so.
I'd like to get a move on, personally. My stance remains unchanged!
Tell me about the Greataxe, Dunefar!
It's an old, slightly rusty greataxe. Yet the edge looks sharp and heavy. It has a few bits of something hard and colorful along the edge - metallic shades and red, white, green and that manner of color.
Knight will try whacking the wall with it a few times!
The wall is whacked! It cuts into the ice and stone well enough, having a good solid weight to it. It swings well in your hand.
On Hp:
Gate's math was off last night by 1. Also sleep restores some hp for all of us.
Kamvakua=103/121
Dunno for the others.
On Leaving:
At this point I don't mind us heading off. I do want to take a second and note why I was annoyed last night at it. The sudden argument was 'we should leave because this place isn't important'. Not 'we should leave because this place is so dangerous it isn't worth proceeding and we should cut (our already excessive) losses'. We got there by taking a route that we thought would (inevitably) lead us toward the surface eventually with less exposure to the elements than being up top. It didn't, but at the end we found somewhere interesting and unexpected: An iced over magical doorway leading to a magical apparatus that could open a portal to the plane of fire. At that point we could've turned back immediately, but if we took that angle on finding unexpected places, we wouldn't be on this 'important' quest, because we would've never met the ice queen. In D&D time, it takes a lot longer to go travel back and forth down mining corridors than it does to check out this wizardry den that we found in the middle of nowhere. I can hear the argument 'focus on goals' and not mind it when the story is 'well, there's some other treasure out there in the middle of nowhere, do you guys want to travel for days to get there or go do the quest you signed up for', but we opened the door and checked it out because we were already there. In D&D time we took a handful of minutes to explore it, basically walking through 5 rooms, only one of which had an enemy in it (a nasty horrible one). Yes in our time it takes a lot longer to do that then to travel, but that is also usually because 'things are happening'.
From an IC standpoint: if we're there, and it's interesting, why not take a few minutes to go check it out as it inevitably takes longer to travel to and fro.
From an OOC standpoint: If dune drops a dungeon or something in front of us, most the time it is more fun to at least poke one's head in and look.
That's why any argument that starts with 'why are we here at all' bugs me. We're traveling adventurers and sometimes we're going to check out things because they are there. We're going to go into the strange and unexpected protected area in the middle of the ice storm. We're going to step into the fairy's circle that happens to be sitting in the middle of this clearing we're just passing on our way to somewhere important. We're going to check out this gravestone with the ghost who really is annoyed that we woke her up. We're going to open the frozen door that shouldn't be sitting at the back of a tunnel and wonder 'why is this here? Let's find out'.
On loot:
Yay money, kam will probably need some of that.
And he'll check out his book!
The place wasn't important, but danger factored into my thoughts as well, what with all the DEADLY TRAPS. Pretty sure I was hyperventilating over them IC, too!
I don't think the ice queen comparison is apt, since we stopped there to rest in the first place so it wasn't exactly a random diversion, and we have good reason for hunting her down and killing her right now, too.
We didn't, really, for exploring some random place in the middle of nowhere because we happened to be there. I'll admit that since I wasn't there when it happened, I couldn't lodge my protest to the excursion in a timely fashion, nor present a method of easy escape from it. So I guess if it felt like our only way out was forward, I will concede that what we were doing was what we should've done.
That it happened to lead to good things strikes me as coincidental and incredibly lucky. If I encountered a similar situation, I would once again advise to retreat.
Quote from: Carthrat on September 08, 2010, 12:46:53 PM
The place wasn't important, but danger factored into my thoughts as well, what with all the DEADLY TRAPS. Pretty sure I was hyperventilating over them IC, too!
I don't think the ice queen comparison is apt, since we stopped there to rest in the first place so it wasn't exactly a random diversion, and we have good reason for hunting her down and killing her right now, too.
We didn't, really, for exploring some random place in the middle of nowhere because we happened to be there. I'll admit that since I wasn't there when it happened, I couldn't lodge my protest to the excursion in a timely fashion, nor present a method of easy escape from it. So I guess if it felt like our only way out was forward, I will concede that what we were doing was what we should've done.
That it happened to lead to good things strikes me as coincidental and incredibly lucky. If I encountered a similar situation, I would once again advise to retreat.
IC you were totally doing so. I'll admit. I was irritated on the OOC discussion on it before the IC even started. Moreso when it continued while I was waiting for help with the door.
Kam could've flown us all out, but yeah, I was assuming that taking an underground road would be safer and less hazardous. Which it really was until we encountered Wish. Though we probably should've been more curious at the phenomenon going on and how unreal it was.
Nikkolai settles down in the bed provided in the warm room and reads the book!
He also takes a few moments to study the Xorn statue to see if he can discern its magical properties!
I'm not going to get into an inter-party debate about what they should do, but you guys DO have all week to discuss things like this. If you want to chat, do so here before it turns into a mid-session distraction?
Kamvakua checks out his book! It looks to be lessons in self reflection, force of will and charismatic speech. It's quite interesting but it looks like it will take some time to sit down and study.
Quote from: Zephyrus on September 08, 2010, 01:41:45 PM
Nikkolai settles down in the bed provided in the warm room and reads the book!
He also takes a few moments to study the Xorn statue to see if he can discern its magical properties!
Nikkolai reads his book! It looks to be sorcererous will and personal allure, lots of good lessons but ones that will take time to study and master.
Make spellcraft on the statue, Nikkolai?
12:56 Zeph roll 1d20+19 SC for Xornie~
12:56 Serith Zeph roll for Serith < 39 > [d20=20]
12:57 Zeph Oh. The dice gods are kind.
It is a statue of an elder Xorn. You think that if properly used it could come alive and serve the party for a brief time each week.
Got what I had to say off my chest. :)
If folks want to leave, we can go. If folks want to check out the remaining 3 rooms and then leave, I'm also fine. If they even exist~. Dune, at a quick glance, do the other doors even still exist post Balance/wish departing?
Anyhow on departing, we have 2 choices (in general):
A)Continue the hunt. After a day of rest, and healing, we can be at 100 percent hp, and mostly drained healing wise. Kam wants some Make Whole usage for his shoes (and if extra, his armor and then shield for ordering).
Issues:
1)Kam was carrying pretty much the whole food supply. We need to hunt and hunt soon. We'd probably have to anyway on our way back, but it's reasonable to survive (yet be hungry) taking the one day trip back to city, and less reasonable wandering in the wilderness. Kam has survival skills. So does Serith. We could likely go get food.
2)Kam's saving throws just took a large hit and the enemy throws a lot of AoE saving throws type damage in the past. Knight has the same problem really since it was all reflex.
3)If she's under a day away, we'll be encountering her with low healing reserves.
B)Call a delay. Head back, re-equip, head out for blood.
Issues:
1)It's the long route and involves turning back which we hate to do.
2)We may have promised a horrible dragon that would be bringing treasure, not defeat. Said dragon may decide to eat us.
3) It's a three day trip!
So, in interest of having a clear decision early for Ko:
Votes?
I vote A.
There is a cunning flaw in your plan, Drac. You're not one day away from Shivra. It's a three day trip from the portal to Shivra; will comment more later when I'm not running to work.
*whistles and silently adds that to the problem*
Guess we're hunting either way. Food I suppose is our next real priority.
I wouldn't mind checking out the last couple rooms in the complex but won't push for it if people want to head out. We are in a pretty bad situation resource-wise and limping back to town is probably our best option--if we press on and somehow do manage to kill ice bitch, we're even farther from Shivra and still without any guarantee of having the resources to make the return trip (she obviously has *some* food since she fed Mari before, but I don't really want to bet on that. Maybe she just keeps a small amount around for stray victims, you know?)
Retreating sucks, but better safe than sorry. We will likely just have to diplo past the dragon if he's still there.
I had a bag of holding. I was sure it had most of the food and stuff in it, since that was the mostly sensible way to do it? I guess this wasn't explicitly stated but come on <_<
Well, I assumed it was in my bag as it was on my sheet at the time, though we had discussed it being in the bag of holding. Up to dune?
Personally, I find the existence of Serith to be ample proof that there's hunting possibilities on the ice fields that we can leverage. Kam has survival to do it, Serith probably does, I think Adail can go expert scavanger. We can probably acquire food right where we are.
I suppose I'm really saying: I have more faith in us roughing it than in us talking our way past the dragon that we folded like wet noodles to the first time. I would love to get re-equipped first but if folks were bothered by our chances with the dragon the last time, I'm more bothered with my own survival now if it attacks (I still think we would win).
From a greedy Kam side: Hmm. With the lack of items, Yulia's Circle Prot from Evil stuff again starts giving a +2 resistance benefit to him if she stays nearby. Additionally he can prep Eagle's Splendor and cha boost his saves up 2 points more. That pretty much eliminates the weakness on the saves front when we face Ice bitch.
Though Knight will still have problems with her flinging Ref saves around.
So food aside, since it is a gear-micromanagement based issue that is hopefully not going to consume more OOC-time than a couple of checks- I think we are making a couple of assumptions on proceeding that need to be cleared.
1) Serith can actually guide us to our destination and back. You know, I find this somewhat in doubt, but I'll leave it to Dune.
2) Our resources have been gutted. Well... have they? Kam lost a lot of stuff but he actually still has his most important equipment (spear/armor/shield) so I actually think he's ready to keep moving. My only concern is not having enough healstick power to get through the plane. Did we lost anything else seriously important? I can't think of anything, but I wasn't here, so.
Not that worried about reflex saves. I have HP, a flying horse, I can get Nikki to cast resist lightning on me and drink a potion of protection from cold, I should be okay. There are defenses other than saves and stuff.
Heh that's true, she did most her damage with chain lightning last time though you were on the tail end of that.
1)If not we can try survivaling it to find our way back. probably would take much longer, but that's still not a 'And they were never seen again'.
2)We have only personal healing power as there's no backup wands anymore. At this point that's a fairly sizable amount of restorative power but we should get backup wands at next chance. Truthfully, I lost a bunch of low tier magic items and one mid tier-cool one. As far as overall middle of combat readiness, I dropped about 10 percent. Not a showstopper to battling it out. I can still fly. I can still bring the trip death, intimidate debuff, and tons of hp.
Accelerating:
Votes for Continuing (Slay the Bitch):
Kam, Knight
Votes for Safety:
Mari
I'll have you guys roll checks for it and see from there. Serith is intelligent and adapted to the area, she can certainly help with both food and directions. How well she can get you to the Ice Bitch's tower is a valid question and one I imagine you'll find out.
It sounds like we're not as low on food as it immediately sounded, so I guess we can continue.
I vote for continuing as well. Here's hoping the way is conveniently blocked so we have to take an extremely roundabout detour through another plane. (Namely, Fire.) >_>
That would kinda even smack my extraneous sidequest level, and I'm pretty sure I'm the most accepting of 'grab whatever interesting diversion is placed in the world' we have :P
3 tiers of distraction are kinda the limit. (Lich quest tier 1, ice bitch tier 2, current traveling disasters tier 3 => fire plane tier 3, adventures/problems/concerns in fire plane tier 4). :P
Sounds like 4 votes for continue. Hope I don't die :) I'm bad at judging that. Rock on.
Yes, looks like you guys are forging on. Make sure to update party status with your restored daily abilities.
*nods* done. Prepped an extra CLW since we'll need more healing than utility.
HEY LISTEN!
Everyone make sure they have their party status updated! Your HP total in #elysium too! Got it? That's your party status and your HP total!
(Do it. You don't want her to stab you all in your sleep.)
Status updated, marking off the Make Whole I grabbed already and casting it on Kam's boots.(Boots is what you wanted first, yes?)
Yes. :) Thanks. The others are all a bit more durable (Not that I don't actually have enough for a full day of castings of make whole, but that can happen when we get back)
Level up time! Everyone post what class they're taking and post HP rolls.
Nik, I need to talk to you. You're getting an LA+0 template(Necropolitan) and I want to go over that before you level up. Tomorrow.
Kam is going to be totally mysterious. He'll strike out far into unknown, picking something totally unexpected.
Another level of Champion of Gwyharwyf. Yeah, like there's any reasonable other choice for advancement anymore for him.
Nik, keep a copy of your old character sheet handy in case your condition changes. Save it on the board somewhere, say.
Nikkolai is being transformed into a necropolitan. This is a template that makes you one of the living dead, a cursed creature to life without life for all eternity. This has the following effects on Nikkolai:
1. Nikkolai's type changes to undead(augmented humanoid). This type gives Nikkolai several benefits and drawbacks.
- No constitution score. In effect your con is 0. This means you have no modifier to your hit points, just the base hit dice.
- Darkvision out to 60 feet. http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Darkvision
- Immunity to mind-affecting effects, poison, sleep, stunning, paralysis, disease and death effects.
- Immunity to critical hits, nonlethal damage, fatigue, exhaustion, ability drain and energy drain. Immune to ability damage to your three physical scores. Ability damage to intelligence, wisdom and charisma functions as normal.
- Immune to any effect that requires a fortitude save, unless it works on objects, is harmless or specifically works on undead.
- You use your charisma modifier in place of your constitution modifier for concentration checks.
- When you are reduced to zero hit points you are immediately destroyed. You have no buffer zone of 0 to -9 hp.
- Not effected by raise dead or reincarnate abilities.
- Undead do not breathe, eat or sleep.
2. All of your hit dice become d12.
3. You gain the following special qualities:
Resist Control (Ex)
You gain a +2 profane bonus on will saves to resist Control Undead and similar spells.
Turn Resistance (Ex)
You have +2 turn resistance.
Unnatural Resilience (Ex)
Nikkolai recovers health by resting at his normal rate, as well as ability damage. However, the heal skill has no effect on him. Further, positive energy spells such as cure light wounds do not heal him. They deal damage instead. Negative energy spells like cause light wounds heal Nikkolai instead.
4. As your hit dice have changed, you now reroll all of them. Your first hd is maximum, the rest are rolled again. So you'll go into #elysium and roll 10d12+12 and that's your new HP score. Remember you have no constitution modifier to add to this.
5. Once you've done all that you'll level up as per normal.
Yulia gains 2 levels up for being behind. Beginning now.
> roll 2d8 Yulia
* Hatbot --> "Kotono rolls 2d8 Yulia and gets 13." [2d8=7, 6]
Max HP is now 50. Lucky her.
BAB increases by 1. Archery attack rolls are +17, she's pretty competent and shooting shit for a courre.
All saves rise by +1.
5*2 SP to spend, 10 total. Yulia purchases 5 ranks of Knowledge: Religion...what what? Favored Souls don't get K:R? I'll houserule that since that's intensely retarded. The other 5 go into heal.
Yulia takes touch of healing for her level 6 feat. Works for me.
Yulia gains energy resistance 1 type. She chooses fire to round out her defenses nicely.
Yulia gains second level spells! She gains 1 0 level spell, 1 1st and 3 2nd. She takes create water for the orison and the rest are TBD.
Sacred Fist, obviously.
Got a 1 on hp, rerolled it into a 2. Again.
Bunch of stuff went up, though namely got SACRED FLAMES and third level spells including FELL THE GREATEST FOE. Adail has real damage now! Went over all this in PM with you, can copy/pasta that here if you want I suppose.
Leaving his feat slot empty for the time being.
Mari is going to spend some of the enforced downtime reading the book Balance gave her.
The exercises increase Mari's endurance! Her con score rises by 1.
Adail will follow suit, since there's not much else to do there.
Adail gains wisdom from his reading! His wisdom rises by 1 point!
---
Mari, you can remove the pre-req of endurance from master of forms.
Noted, and HP roll for the record.
* Hatbot --> "MariofManyForms rolls 1d8+4 and gets 7."12 [1d8=3]
Oh wow, I totally forgot the book. *goes to see what book he was holding* I'll read that too.
Yeah, I'll read my charismatic book of Doom~. DOOM FOR THE DOOMBRINGING!
*waits before modifying sheet*
Yeah leveled up last night.
I guess since its downtime we should probably divide that small treasure sitting over in the other thread. I'll raise it over there.
Also, Woot to see our cleric Courre is improving. We will need it. Damn lich and her strategy to use Nikkolai as recruitment bait. :P
Double Woot to see Adail suddenly master dangerous fiery arts. We are a vicious offense driven force.
Also, Adail, I request 2 Make Whole castings? :) For Armor and Shield.
Hard to divvy up the loot when we don't know what it does yet!
since we had a week to read books, Adail easily cast Make Whole on anything Kam needed made whole during that time as well.
*Waits for dune nod of okay before updating sheet*
Make whole castings go without incident.
Kamvakua reads his book! He gains 1 point of charisma.
Quote from: El Cideon on September 29, 2010, 07:07:59 PM
Hard to divvy up the loot when we don't know what it does yet!
This. As the party lacks identify, there's no way for them to identify loot right now.
Zeph: As you're basically the lich's toy right now, will you be up to doing a bit of stuff before session? We may as well do this so the party can get down to brass tacks next session.
Others: There was some discussion of Mari climbing up the shaft or other tricks. Were you guys going to try these? If so, how?
Are we stuck there for at least a day with nothing happening?
Yes.
Go nuts, Mari. That cloak lets you climb up things easily, right? And your fire resistance should let you dodge the heat a bit.
If we are trapped there for more than a couple of days, I'd like to know how our food is delivered (if any).
Skeletons come in with platters of food three times a day, as well as ample supplies of clean water.
Oh yeah, I can wall-walk and stuff with that cloak. Sure, let's toss that on and take a stroll up the chimney some time safely in-between skeleton visits.
Mari climbs up the chimney! After about 15 feet she bangs her head against the air! It's like something solid is there, preventing her from going forward!
(btw, Mari's post was 1000 gossipy posts, or just over 2 every day since game start. We're a gossipy bunch!)
(We are!)
I've been meaning to ask you something, Knight. What's that 26-0 thing under your avatar? If I recall it's been slowly going up.
kills vs. deaths. I think I haven't updated it, actually.
Does surrendering count as a death?
I think the meaning of 'death' is quite clear
Well, death is subjective. Do you mean death in the sense of the cessation of bodily functions? Do you mean death as in defeat, ruin and all that you dread happening and not in the strictest sense of the word? Perhaps death means the demise of your honor, as you submit to a foe and leave your fate in their hands. Truly, death could mean many a thing here.
Alternately, it means death by chocolate and Knight needs some. Insert female joke here, season to taste.
I'm toying with a custom feat for Yulia, how does it look to you guys? Reasonable/fair/unfair/something else?
Healing Boost [General]
Prerequisite: Heal 4 ranks, able to cast at least two conjuration(healing) spells.
Benefit: The die size on your healing spells increases by one increment. A cure light wounds would restore 1d10+5 hp instead of 1d8+5. A lesser restoration would restore 1d6 ability points instead of 1d4.
As in being killed, though I would accept that there are worse possible fates.
That feat's okay.
What worse possible fates do you have in mind, Carthrat?
It doesn't matter to me at the moment. I'm dead.
But to the others, I think that more healing would be sought after and appreciated!
I certainly don't want to become an experimental drone, or the plaything of some god. It would also go poorly to turn the entire family remnant against me.
Getting people on my own side killed, that's pretty awful, too.
Quote from: Anastasia on October 01, 2010, 02:00:31 AM
I'm toying with a custom feat for Yulia, how does it look to you guys? Reasonable/fair/unfair/something else?
Healing Boost [General]
Prerequisite: Heal 4 ranks, able to cast at least two conjuration(healing) spells.
Benefit: The die size on your healing spells increases by one increment. A cure light wounds would restore 1d10+5 hp instead of 1d8+5. A lesser restoration would restore 1d6 ability points instead of 1d4.
Yeah, that's a reasonable feat. It's flip side (Negative Energy Boost) would possibly be a bit nasty, but healing is generally less valued than damage to begin with and it's really basically just "+1" to healing rolls for most situations. Multiply by her heal count and its usually only adding a 5-6 hp a day to her abilities.
Quote from: Carthrat on October 01, 2010, 02:10:53 AM
I certainly don't want to become an experimental drone, or the plaything of some god. It would also go poorly to turn the entire family remnant against me.
Getting people on my own side killed, that's pretty awful, too.
Don't worry, I've no intent of getting killed...again. >_>
Who ever intends to be killed?
It's not even really that good. I mean, increasing the die by one step only gives a net average gain of +1 HP healed per spell. But I guess that's about as good as stuff like DODGE or WEAPON FOCUS, and it does improve various metamagic at the same time.
It IS good in the context of lesser restoration, though.
Given that getting raised can happen, I would consider willingly sacrificing oneself to potentially be a credible part of one's strategy.
Quote from: Carthrat on October 01, 2010, 03:16:05 AM
It's not even really that good. I mean, increasing the die by one step only gives a net average gain of +1 HP healed per spell. But I guess that's about as good as stuff like DODGE or WEAPON FOCUS, and it does improve various metamagic at the same time.
It IS good in the context of lesser restoration, though.
Agreed. That's my take on it. I'm looking to improve Yulia's healing with her feats, so this appeals in every way. It's not a great feat, but it stacks nicely on a healer and makes another stepping stone towards being better at it. She can't take it for another two levels since she has no feat to retrain for it anyway, so.
Quote from: Carthrat on October 01, 2010, 03:18:58 AM
Given that getting raised can happen, I would consider willingly sacrificing oneself to potentially be a credible part of one's strategy.
It depends. In your case it's not a good move, Ms. Turns into a Card on death. In Kam's case we call that Tuesday. In all other cases it's a hell of a gamble, but that's why we have martyrs.
Edit: Page 69. Mari and Knight, you know what to do.
Order a pizza? Bake cookies?
Why am I hungry.
There's something warm and wet Mari wants to munch on?
Lasagna?
...
I see the Cards have unique anatomy.
No, Dune. Cards are made of paper! Lasagna is pasta.
But can you have a paper pasta pussy?
I just wanted to alliterate. I'm so sorry.
You are, yes. You really, really are.
Well look at it this way. Are you in the mood for Italian, Mari?
I never actually liked lasagna, so take your filthy double-entendres elsewhere.
No kidding? Seriously? That's just wrong.
"That's just wrong" sums up basically this entire page, yes.
Really. Let's move on and never speak of this again. The sooner we hit page 70, the better.
That was the point of the page!
....really, Dune? Just toss the two of them naked in a bathhouse ingame already.
It's more fun to make gimmicky jokes once in awhile.
Page 70. Return to normal, citizens.
HEY LISTEN MASTER!
I know you're a horrible, unholy abomination now, but I can still help!
http://dnd.savannahsoft.eu/rulebook-85-sandstorm.html
Here's all the feats for Sandstorm, since you couldn't find a copy of the book! Feel free to look at the metamagic feats!
Okay, side sessions.
1. Rat on Monday, have a few odds and ends.
2. Nikkolai at some point over the week. What day's good?
3. Mari at some point, what day's good?
4. Kam, you too. What day's good.
Adail, I don't have anything directly for you since you're not around and up for side stuff much. Yulia wouldn't mind chatting if you are, though. Your call entirely.
Honestly, catch me when I'm just online at some point and I may be up for it. I chafe at too much schedualing however, so not going to plan it.
Fair enough. It's up to you entirely; I feel bad saying I have something for every PC but one. >_>
Not too many options this week, unfortunately. Thursday possibly? At normal time if necessary (earlier would be better if you're off work that day? I never remember your schedule).
Otherwise...well, I'm gone Friday afternoon through late Sunday. I guess we could do something when I get home Sunday since I have Monday off work. That would be like midnight, though. I do have Monday off, as noted, but I dunno whether it would get in the way of Balmuria mk. 2 to try and do something then.
Truthfully, let's go tomorrow if possible. Beyond that I really should be focusing on making Vigilante rock.
Let's see about Thursday, Cid. I can do tomorrow, Drac.
If you're leaving it up to me to poke and go "hey, how about that Adail and Yulia chat" it'll never happen(entirely because I'll have forgotten all about this between now and say...tomorrow). But if you have time working around when everybody else has got stuff and see me online(not on Friday, of course), just catch me and I'll probably be up for it.
How does Thursday strike you, Dune?
Adail, join me for trouble and make it double :P
Thursday's fine, Zeph.
To do:
1. Nik, do you want to talk to Mari before this session? If so, I think Monday's the only realistic day to do that.
2. Knight, you're still on for Monday.
3. I'll be posting the gear the Lady provides today or tomorrow.
If Cid wants to, sure.
Sure thing. I'm not sure when Cid gets back in but I know it's tonight or tomorrow.
Zeph/Mari: What times tomorrow are good for you. Normal game time is out, Cid can't be up that late. Can you guys make an earlier time? If not we'll just lead off Tuesday with this.
I have all day off work, so I'll let Zeph suggest something. I'd rather avoid normal hours just because doing that two days in a row is painful, but it could be I'd rather do that then hold up the whole group on Tuesday.
I have a few things to take care of today, but I'll try to pop in sometime this afternoon/evening so we can do this.
So...
Reading Mari's log, I would suggest we not wait. Once we exit the lich's domain, before we begin our crusade, call in a favor for tam toward the goal of rescuing her sister and get advice from that angle as well. Not to do it immediately, but more importantly to give time for our allies to work rather than expecting they can pull instant favors out of their hat.
It seems like (at the least), next session has:
Adail vs Death, Arrival of the Sacred Fist
Departure from Lich.
The Party Fight - What are we really going to do about lich and nikki long term.
Heading into a town near the border of our target region and getting the story from another source.
Doing a sending for Mari to various allies to start stuff spinning.
Truthfully there's really a few possibilities with mari's sister (In Drac Order):
1)We assume that Mari's sister is totally in danger and take the same sort of angle we did with the Lich, only with there being a 'ASAP' on it. Going for a dramatic on rails rush to not only take out the plague priest, but immediately gate into the abyss and go and save ami could be pretty epically awesome.
2)Mari's sister isn't in immediate death risk. We can reasonable take our time and then go there. This is the route we were taking before Lich spoke up.
3)We're assured to be too late. Still, probably should rush. But our venture is more 'how do we rescue someone from the lake of fire' then how do we rush out and kidnap someone in the middle of the blood war.
4)We go 'Lied' to the Lich, get a gate and take care of Mari's sister first and come back to face angry lich and even more powerful plague priest. Possibly have to deal with lich sabotage down this route, though it would probably teach her to choose her carrots better (*xenosoundeffect* JERK).
I think 1 would be pretty cool, but we probably have to discuss IC and it depends how epic Yugoloth Plague Priest is. As I recall, we DID pay for a gate that we did not use. We could do a sending to said wizard over in Shivra, saying we'd like to use that now but with a different location and plane direction. :) To do 1, we'd have to manage not to get chewed to bits like we usually do in our major quests though.
1) we can't cast Sending on our own, can we?
2) we don't know anyone nearby who can cast it, except maybe the lich
3) a plague hit the land as well as an invasion that apparently killed most of the people who would be able to cast it
4) we don't know where any local portals are
5) so basically I have no idea how we can logically contact our allies at this point, presuming you want to keep it secret from her lichiness
6) that diabolic army was marching to besiege a demon fort, right when the lich showed it to us, if you didn't act RIGHT THEN you probably missed the chance to ensure Ami doesn't actually reach that battle. better cheer for Baator!
7) and even if we did have a scroll of sending or whatever, do we really know Ami well enough to describe her and her location to some dude casting gate in 25 words or less?
8) heading into a town will surely result in us getting diseased and that is something to be avoided as long as possible, because we don't know if it can be cured for good
Basically I think we're going to be stuck solving the plague issue in the immediate future. It is plausible that we'll find some caster dude who can help us out in the process of doing so, however. I guess we'll discuss it, yes.
I am personally skeptical that what the lich showed us was 100% accurate. I am hoping that it's not, obviously. But she did show a willingness to say anything necessary to get Mari into her service and I can't help but wonder if that extended to some visual trickery.
Mari will be pushing to get stuff done as quickly as possible, of course. Did we actually pay that wizard in advance for the Gating and then forget about it afterwards? Would be convenient. Certainly easier to get a Sending to him then to find someone else who knows Gate (Sending's, what, one of those mid-level spells? I think it's possible someone in the kingdom capable of casting that could've survived). Thread/logdiving should happen to confirm this (I don't mind doing it, but noooot tonight, thanks).
Oh, and:
Quote from: Carthrat on October 11, 2010, 09:50:32 PM7) and even if we did have a scroll of sending or whatever, do we really know Ami well enough to describe her and her location to some dude casting gate in 25 words or less?
I think so? Otherwise agreed on all points--I don't think we'll actually have a way to do anything on this front until we've cleared up the plagueoloth mess. Anyone local who might be capable of helping us won't be in a position to do so while that's going on.
Are we really intending to go special forces on the word of the lich without even trying to verify her story? I suppose we were, but I don't think it's that outlandish to find a place that's safely outside the plague boundary that can also verify the story as well as potentially get more information on how the plague cult is seen/known about within there. If it's really 'everywhere outside of lich castle is covered in horrendous plague' then we have good reason not to, but of course I'm hoping we're not starting within the plague boundaries right off the bat.
Well, I planned to contact Rogue, who is immune to disease, and double-check the story through him and get him to basically handle the interaction-with-peasants side of things, because my god I don't want to get sick, nor do I want to split us up.
Drac wanted some books on Amlyn and some info. The Lady provides books that tell you the following:
Amlyn is a prosperous duchy on one of the countless Prime worlds. Knights in full plate armor ride on noble stallions, while an age of enlightenment and learning sweeps the duchy. It is ruled by Duke Anthelos, though he was getting quite old. The Duke is an absolute ruler, though one with mercy and temperance.
Amlyn is a plane dotted with forests. Small villages and farms are scattered all about. There are the normal problems - goblin raids to the south, occasional drow raids for slaves from the surface world, dragons, that manner of thing. But it's not a nightmare or a bad place to live from what Kamvakua can infer.
The main religion is to the Skyfather, who is said to be the ever-bright sun who gave birth to the sky, then created the earth below to imprison the Oppressor-In-Chains.Kam, you can make K:R if you have ranks here. The main church is the Sun Cathedral, which is within the greater city of Amlyn.
To the north, there are goblin lands, to the west and south are more human lands, and to the east are dwarves and gnomes, locked in an ancient war.
Hey, how large is it, and does it have neighbours?
The local unit of reckoning is the length, Amlyn is 3000 lengths or so from east to west and 2000 from north to south. Roughly.
As for neighbors read up, Knight.
Addendum: Drac dug up the post saying you paid for a Gate. If you can contact the wizard in question you may be able to call this in. Of course that's the trick.
Kam isn't religion saavy really, but he asks Adail about it who rolls 24 toward "Who is the Skyfather or the Oppressor in Chains"
The Skyfather is an obscure name for Lathander, a god of the sun and dawn. He's part of the Faerunian pantheon; what he's doing here under that name is anyone's guess. Adail would know this is pretty obscure knowledge, in all his studies he only knows a little bit about it.
Did random demon minion just try and seduce Knight? I think he did.
He claims to be slaad-blooded, not a demon. There is a difference!
I am amused that the issue is his blood and not that I just called him a nameless mook. :D
Knight, you are mook-loved. :)
At least until he tries to tear out my throat. Then he'll be upgraded to Butler Mook.
Man, there's a full six.two-five hours till gaming. Cursed Chronos, his slow plodding ways get in the way of our excited arguing and the revealing of Adail's masterful sacred fist technique.
Well, seems at least one thing is resolved. Hey we've got two Knights now :P
So we have a mansion containing an unknown quantity of enemies. The back house, as I understand it, is magically protected and sealed somehow, so we're assuming that whatever is there is something the present residents of the mansion wish to protect. As they are our enemies, it behooves us to steal or destroy anything they think is important. We believe one of their commanders is in the top floor, though this isn't certain and may well change if we wait too long before attacking.
I believe I favor attacking the manor from the top and attempting to subdue one of their captains, as previously discussed (making a hole in the roof to attack from shouldn't be hard.) We'll force them to show their hand and ideally be able to assess the quality of their troops on the go, and since we'll be able to fly, we're in a position to make a quick getaway if necessary. It may also bunch most of them inside the mansion, which if we're up to it, we can then set ablaze, hopefully hurting them, splitting them up, and making them easy pickings for us to gang up on one by one. If we're able to defeat them cleanly, all good.
If, however, they prove too strong for us to completely defeat, we have a backup options if we're curious about the house. Mari could disguise herself as a cultist or whatever, and sneak inside; Adail could do something similar, I believe. I think Mari's actually less likely to be discovered in the first place, but Adail is more likely to stay alive if he is found out. The idea here would be to get in, figure out what's going on, and then escape. If sabotage is possible without being detected, that's a thing to do, too. Of note is that we must be prepared for this in the first instance; that is, I think if we want to pursue this, we have whoever is going to do it hide while the rest of us go start a fight, and then sneak in while it's happening. If we defeat everyone, we can catch up; if not, you have to make your own way out.
Mostly agreed. Though really those two plans are slightly exclusive. Or at least, can't be tried in direct sequence.
If adail or mari are properly sneaking in, they can't be in the midst of the combat melee. We can wait afterwards (which you may be intending) and then send them in. Eh, maybe not. But I suspect our enemies are wielding weapons that will give distinctive wounds, and as such odds are any wounded individual is going to have trouble infilitrating.
Anyhow, I still think the core of the plan is ideal. Hit hard and fast from the top, disable, eliminate, separate. If we can cause trouble elsewhere to keep them separated so we can nail them individually, all the better. Truthfully it might be good to set fire to the magically protected house. Yes, crazy idea I know.
But here's the thought... It might be flammable stuff in there, it might not. The protection may protect against it, it might not. Either way, guards for it will likely go there. At least one. Hopefully more. Why? Because that fire could be a cover for someone breaking into their magically protected vault and they might not know whether that's going to destroy it. We don't either, but either we destroy something they wanted protected and hidden or we capture it, and in either case we hinder their ability to really answer a sudden surprise attack from the upper floors in the main manor.
The idea is that anyone sneaking in does so while we fight.
Setting fire to places we are also sneaking inside seems like it brings more problems than solutions...
The top priority here is getting a leader to question, right? We have an idea of where one is right now. The longer we wait around, the less chance he'll stay there. I figure we smash right through the roof or wall and disable him as quickly as possible. Once that objective is secured, we can start worrying about anyone else around. I do think eliminating as much of the cult as possible (hopefully all of it) is desirable and should be attempted unless the odds are highly against us. But without having any idea of the enemy's numbers, it's kind of pointless to speculate. I figure we focus on doing a smash 'n' grab as quick as we can and evaluate how much else we can get away with based on the immediate response to that fight. If we've all got Fly active, escape is theoretically not that tricky.
The problem with starting a fire as some kind of distraction, I think, is that our potential prisoner is almost surely going to move from his current location the moment he hears something going on. If we can time things to be perfectly simultaneous? Maybe, though that likely means someone's off setting fires instead of helping us with the fight. Fair trade? I dunno.
If we do get chased off early on, I fully support chucking a fireball at the magic building on the way out, of course.
Well, that's why I meant by slightly exclusive, they're not taking part in the curb stomp, which makes it less of a curb stomp and run. Taking adail and mari both out of combat is not a small amount of damage per round that we're discussing.
Well, it's two buildings, and I'm just saying to set fire to the important one.
I don't think we need to set fire to anything, frankly. It's more likely to destroy things we may want(documents and records, perhaps?) then even really inconvenience someone of a viable threat level to us. Not to mention that those a fire would be most dangerous to, any prisoners or other actual innocents that might be in there, are the people we'd like to avoid hurting.
Top priotity is definately grab a leader sort, with secondary being to check out anything else of interest like the sealed cellar. If we can do the grab fast enough, we may have time to check it out? If not...eh, it's existance is at least some information and perhaps we can get an idea of what's in it from the guy we grab.
Also, to clarify, the smaller building itself does not have a magicked door, it's the exterior cellar access of the smaller building that does. The cellar is also 50ft deep and solid stone, so any fire set on the smaller building itself will do diddly-squat to whatever's in there.
Yeah, overall I don't think a fire is nessesary or even desirable. It'll alert our target that someone is attacking before Flying Knight(or Kam I suppose, but I assumed Gem is what we'd use for can opening here) just smashes the wall/window/whatever open. So either we time it to happen at exactly the same time, in which case Nik's better served getting ready for the fight then bombing another part of the house, or we do it before in which case it becomes probable that the target will move. The more I think about it, the less of a good idea I think fire is.
Really inclined to agree with Gate on...pretty much everything. It was mentioned that there might be prisoners, wasn't it? I would rather not risk incinerating any present.
Feel free to fireball people running from the little house to the big one after we raid it, though. <_<
I think I can handle that.
So to recap:
1. We are doing the Death From Above Plan.
2. Presumably our heavy hitters, Knight and Kam, are going to be assaulting the top floor via Fly while the rest of us cover the exits and/or make our way up from the bottom?
3. Also, I think it would be a good idea to have someone hovering over the manor to act as a look-out for anyone attempting to flee on foot.
If we're trying to take someone alive, Mari should probably be there to help. Nonlethal sneak attacking.
I was pretty much of the read that we were all going to fly up to curb stomp. The difference between 2 party members and 6 attacking is rather significant.
That is pretty much where I'm coming from. Less complicated plan = less chances for things to go wrong! More of us in the same place = enemy falls faster! If we think we're in good shape to take the rest of the cult once we've nabbed a living witness, awesome, let's do it, but I haven't really been convinced by plans that involve splitting up and sneaking around from the outset.
I suppose I really have no objection to all of us doing it. I just hope that our target(s) don't decide to flee instead of repel an attack. Which is entirely possible. An officer could throw underlings at us while he escapes out the back door.
I can't really fit *inside* the house while on a horse, so I can circle and pick up anyone who rushes outside. But I can cut a way open if we can't just smash in through the windows.
Quote from: Zephyrus on October 24, 2010, 12:04:51 PM
I suppose I really have no objection to all of us doing it. I just hope that our target(s) don't decide to flee instead of repel an attack. Which is entirely possible. An officer could throw underlings at us while he escapes out the back door.
We have fly and high movement. We'll deal with it unless they gate out. In which case, we probably couldn't have captured them effectively anyway.
Your plan is up to you guys, but I'd like you guys to have decided on one come Tuesday night. I don't want to spent a chunk of session time arguing over the particulars, unless you really need to talk IC.
Well, we seem pretty agreed on smashing through the wall into the third-floor room where we think our guy is staying and taking him out first thing. The only thing that seems unsettled is who exactly will participate in that? And my suggesting really is just, "Anyone who can." Splitting the party to have someone else sneak around seems an unnecessary risk. But it does strike me that, hey, Rat doesn't think Knight's mount will fit in the room, so why not have Knight circle in the air and keep watch for anyone trying to escape? An aerial perspective would likely be more useful than that of someone on the ground, wouldn't it?
Also, since we're talking about dudes flying into the breach there...Just making sure, but there's enough flight options for everyone involved? EDIT: Fly is level 3, Nik has seven of those per day. Yeahhh, we should be fine.
Plan Death From Above is a go!
Zeph, I'm surprised at you.
It's not fiery death from above?
People ruled out fiery, sadly. ;_;
Game tonight, yah? *pings for board reminding of folks*
We've got a horrific evil spirit apparently going to eat our brains. But not with tentacles. Knight and Mari are safe! >_>;;
Message scroll 1:
To the pustuled hand of the father of disease, may His reign be forever and eternal:
The humans of Amlyn are diseased as expected. In this region there are no healers left and the population has swiftly succumbed within the predicted parameters. Men in good health last approximately a week without magical healing, with the sick dying in approximately half the time. We have taken a manor home and rounded up those that survive, as well as set up the containment wards for the Blighted 100. The gift of the Oinoloth feeds on them and forges them, oh diseased lord. All goes according to your vision.
Regin, Soulsworn to the Wasting Tower, the glory of Khin-Oin and the Oinoloth shall reign forever!
Message scroll 2:
To the great Ursagel, slave and favored of the true master of all the Gray Wastes:
As requested, the following information has been gathered.
On the first matter, Tall-Fellow Gisbourne has been found. He was near death and given to the gestaloth as desired once information was extracted from him. No further resistance from the remnants of the Death Speakers is expected, as he is the last alive. While the spirits of the others have fled to the Realm of Eternal Sun, Tall-Fellow Gisbourne shall not. May it please you, oh master.
On the second matter, there is no sign of the Lady of the Green Kirtle or responses to your inevitable victory. In the meantime, the search of local records has uncovered two worthwhile notes: Her time of estrangement was approximately 25 years ago, further confirmation of what you thought. Second, her net worth was estimated at being over one million in gold at the time of her retreat from public life. She is a worthwhile ally if she ventures into this affair, in my estimation.
On the third matter, there has been no sign of agents of the Skyfather or other meddling entities. The celestials cower in their heavens, unwilling to oppose us. They too fear the disease of the great Oinoloth, for not even they are safe. You are proven right once again, oh master.
Regin, Soulsworn to the Wasting Tower, the glory of Khin-Oin and the Oinoloth shall reign forever!
Message scroll 3:
Hear my words, those carriers of the will of the Oinoloth!
From the rotting lips of the Lord of Malaise comes wisdom! The living suffer and weaken, Amlyn is dying before us! Let the will of the Oinoloth be done, let his will spread. From him I pass the following edicts.
The first. Interlopers are suspected, though magic hides them from sight. Those beyond this Prime. One is known to be a human of wind ancestry, able to fight with two weapons in the drow-style. Little else is known of them, but they have a powerful patron in this land. Of the few surviving forces, it can only be one of three: Estamont, The Lady of the Green Kirtle or the Knight of the Fountain. Estamont is restrained in Gullivet's Dive, so it is likely one of the last two. Be aware they are an unknown factor, one that must be crushed and laid defeated at my feet!
The second. An agent in the city reported a conflict with a paladin of unknown origin, he is believed to serve the Court of the Stars. Further, traces of meaningless celestial resistance have been detected, particularly around the Red Boar. Crush them for their impudence! Inflict onto them the Bleeding Death and make them suffer forevermore! Gold and reward to those that bring forth the bloodied heads of these fools!
The third. The land grows still as the Oinoloth's gift slaughtered the mortal fools. When it is done, the empty lands shall be cast down into the Gray Silence. Prepare yourself for this coming day, for when the Oinoloth shall touch us all!
Wow, they're impressively informed. Strange how they managed to know about us before our first attack. Scry perhaps? I'd expect them to certainly know about us now, but yeah, it's kind of strange what they know and don't know. Them knowing we are here? Divination maybe, working on a reasonable expectation of eventual trouble. Them knowing mari to that detail level might match. This would imply that they can get vague answers about what we're doing, but they can't get specifics like the Lady can. Which means at all times there is a solid danger though they may know what we're about to strike if it is a very specific thing.
We can probably continue ignorance about Rogue. Possibly good to hear he's alive and doing well in his opposition.
Instead, let's grill the lady for information on the other two. Ko, can we ask her about them midweek?
Also it appears we're in the middle of a major planar struggle for domination of an entire plane. Sure that was the case before, but yeah, cool. Let's kick it. :)
Anyhow, so we recover, we have restoring disease happening on an every day? every few days? something like that. Oddly, it returns from magical healing? That's strange. Dispel or other stuff wouldn't work? I'd think that if it kept coming back to a person when 'magically healed' there would be something to track. Either a spell effect on them or something.
We've got:
Clear sign that this is intended as a part to devour the plane into the Oinoloth's domain.
The plague itself for research (Side effect: Also a very convenient recruiting tool for the lich)
Names of potential allies against the bad guys.
Signs that an one way only blockade should probably be established, but I don't think folks can do that.
What we don't have:
1)A next target that can get us more information on the current location of Ursagal.
2)An idea how the plague is perpetually maintained.
3)An idea of what targets would damage their objectives (if any).
So it may be tactically wise to aid one of the other big powers, both to free them up to help and to disguise our actual location. but again, leaping ahead. Information needed.
I think that stuff will be up for discussion on the session, as new information comes to light. I anticipate following multiple leads and possibly splitting up, based on the conversation I had with her lichness.
On another note, I'm hoping to modify my mount so that it can take passengers! Tiny passengers, to be precise. Looking at bolting on a couple of chairs w/seatbelts to the side, providing seating and bombardment opportunities from any mages or mice that happen to be on board.
Or courre. Don't forget the courre. I want to imagine you, Adail and Yulia as three cops wearing reflective sunglasses. You pull that dragon right the fuck over and go CAN I SEE YOUR LICENSE, MOTHERFUCKER?
*Cue guitar riff*
I like to imagine Yulia riding in the mouth, with a megaphone. We'll get them listening, alright <_<
Hahahhahaha. Well done, Carthrat. Well done.
=) Though Yulia can fly. And Adail has flown on horseback before hasn't he?
</seriousworkdracosisserious>
I'm more talking about shrinking other people and giving them somewhere to sit. And I fly faster than Yulia.
This is a clever ratty plan. Using your team-mates like rat-sized archers...
</pretends he has the sense of humor of a more than a rock today, failingly>
:) anyhow, mmm, I should find time to do stats.
Apologies for the sudden termination last night. I passed out in my office chair and when I woke up, it was 3 AM and mIRC had D/Cd. >_>;
What amount of groveling and prostration must I do to obtain forgiveness?
Zombiehate.
So, in theory we're going to try and get a session going later this week. This busy week.
When are Zeph+Ko reliably there first? I can see what I can manage intersecting that, but it'd probably be more productive then me guessing when I can head out.
I'm guessing by silence: not tonight. Of course, scheduling <24 hours is always unlikely :)
Tonight seems likely.
I can do Thursday if we have to. That said, I'd prefer another day so I'm not running two separate rooms at once.
Any day this weekend is acceptable, I believe. Except perhaps Friday, when I might be going bowling with some friends. I'll keep you updated on that front, if you would prefer Friday.
>_>;
Friday would be the best day for Ko.
I could make today or tomorrow. Monday would be doable but I'd rather not have such a small gap between now and the next.
Feh. If we're going to play tomorrow, may I suggest an earlier starting time?
??? *works on fridays, generally can't leave the office before 6:30 at the earliest* So I dunno much can be done there on my end.
Either way if it's happening today, I need to know soon. If it's happening tomorrow, I'll see you guys then.
I don't care. We can do it tonight if Ko wants to. If not, we'll do it tomorrow.
What time early?
How does an hour or two before regular game time sound?
I can do it. The question is if Drac can do it.
If this doesn't work out, what day looks best then?
My weekend is wide open. And I suppose I could do regular game time tonight if Drac can't make an earlier time.
Up to you guys. I can make most times that don't conflict with work, 'cept Sunday.
2 hours is impossible. An hour is a maybe thing. I'll leave work when I can, hopefully by 6. Likely by 6:30.
Tomorrow!
I need to run Kam and Nik first of all and I intend to focus on them. For the other group, do you guys want to run/finish up on Thursday or what here? I want to give those two focus since getting them together has been a bitch, and I gave you guys the same courtesy.
I thought we were finished, though. What's left to do?
Yeah, I didn't think there was much left, maybe some wrap-up chatter and heading back to the 'porter circle. I guess we could go to the city to meet up with the others since that's where the portal Knight needs is? If all else fails, I'm okay just talking to Ami to pass the time, but that's not exactly a group activity (well, not necessarily).
I'm fine with chatting with the Farrunner family, but I'm also just as fine skipping the session this week due to some stuff I need to do, especially if you're going to be focusing on the others during regular time.
Now I feel bad. There's no reason why this session needs to focus exclusively on just two people.
Zeph: Running 2 or 3 rooms is actually pretty hard.
Much appreciated Dune. I'm guessing if they're coming to join us in the city, we at least need to get reasonably situated there before they can meet up.
Ami and Mari can catfight :P
kinda late here, but I think the plan now is that I'll just run a Persona S.Link for Cid during gametime so we get some gaming in while Dune runs the Kam/Nikki planar session. And Rat has non-game stuff to do? Shoulda posted this earlier, but been kinda loopy this afternoon.
Just a ping: if there's any equipment changing stuff, can we get the info on that ahead of session so we're not spending a chunk of next session redoing character math?
Also, Dune: Posting as a reminder about the Lady's reward for being such a good recruiter.
Noted, will post tonight or tomorrow sometime.
On the return, the Lady of the Green Kirtle takes Nikkolai aside. In her hands is a pale yellow book, bound in straps of slow moving, almost gooey black leather. With an expressionless face, "In this book lies several secrets of magic, both what you can read and what sorcery can be gained from devout study." Her knuckles rap against the cover, "If you are worthy of mastering magic, you will find more than meets the eye with enough study. Know that only when the sun is gone and the night sky is visible can you learn the secrets of the Shade Libram, apprentice."
Shade Libram
This spellbook contains the following magics:
Ghost Sound: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/ghostSound.htm
Cause Fear: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/causeFear.htm
Summon Swarm: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/summonSwarm.htm
False Life: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/falseLife.htm
Ghoul Touch: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/ghoulTouch.htm
Scare: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/scare.htm
Vampiric Touch: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/vampiricTouch.htm
Animate Dead: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/animateDead.htm
Bestow Curse: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/bestowCurse.htm
Enervation: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/enervation.htm
Contagion: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/contagion.htm
Yet the pages are mostly blank, even with these spells. Sometimes Nikkolai can think he can see words, words of dreadful, impossible arcane potency. There are two things he can do with this book:
1. Study it. Each night Nikkolai spends intently pouring over the magic within, he is allowed a knowledge(arcana) check. It is possible to unlock greater secrets, if one is persistent and insightful.
2. Use the book. Once per day by intoning from the pages, any spell written within may be used as a spell-like ability. The caster level of the spell-like ability is equal to the hit dice of the intoner, with any relevant save DCs equal to 10+spell level+charisma modifier. Intoning from the Shade Libram is a full round action that provokes attacks of opportunity. If the Shade Libram is used in this manner, it cannot be studied productively that night.
For reference on adjustment of Fearsome Fury ability:
<Kotono> Anyway I have no problem with the idea of the ability, but throwing DC 30-40 stuff at a level 12 campaign simply doesn't work on any realistic balance sense. It may as well be auto effect with those numbers, since nothing short of a save twink situation has any chance to pass 'cept on a 20. I'd like to change it to that forumla there, which scales and about hits the normal range for saves there
<Kotono> instead.
<Kotono> Anyway BRB since you don't seem to be immediately around, need to run up to the bathroom and stuff.
<Dracos> yarr
<Kotono> Hi.
<Dracos> #1 :)
<Dracos> anyhow hmm.
<Kotono> Anyway, I really don't have a problem with teh ability. It's that using skill checks to set save DCs doesn't balance. Skill check results outstrip how saves grow, so.
<Dracos> It is true. Though at the same time what makes it fairly hard to beat is I've stuck a large chunk of Kam's build into playing toward it, which the suggestion of 10+1/2 level+cha kind of erases, it's also a nerf that many types simply ignore outright. Still, I totally agree with the basic that it's DC is patently unfair where it is.
* Kotono nods.
<Kotono> I'd rather just have it at a possible but good range that auto scales. The DC of it right now with the above would be...19, which is a bit too low, I think. Say the ability comes with a bonus with it, +2 or +4 or whatever.
<Dracos> at the least I'd want it to be 1/2 hit dice, because going from DC 36 to DC 15 is pretty much moving it from always succeed into never succeed at all. DC 10+5+3=18 is kinda better, but is still basically zero threat half of our party.
<Kotono> You're level 12, right? That's 10+6+3.
* Dracos is one level/hit die below party. Goliath.
<Kotono> Oh right, level adjustment. Okay.
<Kotono> 18+4 is 22, which is marginally better and about where I put 'average' DCs for this level. Something in that ballpark, maybe? Anyway, feel free to chew it ovre and if you have any suggestions I'm all ears
<Kotono> .
<Dracos> level would be good right now (24) being easy for high will save, super hard for low and a bit hard for average, but it'd scale poorly in the same which is why its usually half. I think your latter idea is best. Maybe just for ease say that the normal size bonus stuff applies to it. hmm, using us as a ballpark: 13, 9, 17,14, 10. Yeah, pretty much anywhere in the 22-24 range would fit sensibly. I'd say
<Dracos> 24 which would make it about a 75 percent success rate for our lowest and a 35 percent rate for our highest. But it's also a fairly minor nerf and about equal to the amount of positive/upgrades that we tend to toss out in a fight. THoughts back?
<Kotono> That's fine.
<Dracos> That ends up practically sitting at 16+1/2 level+Cha (16+5+3) = 24. Seem reasonable in that adjustment range as well? It does have the danger that if I get a massive cha boost, it could get too high, but from my end, I'm fine with it being readjusted if it ever really starts seeming like it falls outside of 25-75 range of odds.
* Kotono nods.
<Kotono> Sure.
* Dracos will at some point pump his cha more, but suspects around that tier, enemies will also be pumping their saves too.
<Kotono> Works for me.
Mari's gear took 17 rust damage.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/exploration.htm#breakingAndEntering
Rules are here, work it out.
Sword of Subtlety is ruined (had 15hp), Sword of Desperate Measures is damaged (25hp - 17 = 8hp). The armor should be safe, if it matters (it's borrowed anyway). Does it get the amulet? That is surely not having more than 17hp, so if it's affected, it's gone too.
Yeah, I'm assuming it's metal. If you want to logdive later to confirm that from old logs, feel free. IF it's not after all it's off the hook.
Amulet of Tears= "adorning a glossy silver chain, a spiral of pearl teardrops circles a colorless crystal sphere" as MIC page 70. Only part that's metal is the chain, and I'd argue the chains shouldn't be where the magic is. Any chance this could mean the amulet's safe?
That assumes I used the same design. At this point it requires a log check. I'll do that after session or tomorrow.
and an amulet shaped like a blue teardrop.
Okay, amulet's okay then.
Firstly, I would like to apologize to both Drac and Cid for being a jackass tonight. It seems that lately, that's been happening more and more often. Some of it stems from slight friction between other players and myself, and some of it stems from a growing disinterest in the game in general.
I enjoy playing. I really do. But my thing is, I enjoy the experience, the RP more than I do the number crunching. To be perfectly honest, if I could play this game without rolling a single die, I'd be happy. I also do not have a decent grasp of tactics. Both of these things pretty much ensure that I'm not going to be any great mover and shaker in DnD nor will I ever be a master or intimately familiar with the game mechanics like the rest of you. I also seem to have trouble being a team player, even though this is something that I've tried consistently to beat into my head with apparently failed results.
It seems that most of the group's problems stem from me being unable to play in a manner that is acceptable and courteous to other players. I would like to apologize for that, most sincerely and deeply. I like playing with all of you. It just seems like it's hard for me to remember that when I'm actually playing Nik.
I had considered permanently withdrawing from the game for several reasons, including the factors mentioned above. But after thinking on it, I asked Dune if it would be acceptable if I could take a break from Nik for a month or so. I'm starting a new job next week that requires me to be up and about three hours after game time finishes. I'm not sure if I can do it like Cid does.
I would like to ask your opinion on the matter. Would it be easier if Nik were to simply remain as a permanent fixture in the Lich's castle and I drop out? Or would you be willing to let me take a breather, as it were, and see if I can't try to teach myself how to be a better team member.
I've enjoyed playing with you for the most part, although I guess I'd agree you could stand to think before you act a bit more. Still. D&D really does want people who can get involved with the mechanics. I just don't think it works well unless all players are roughly around the same area, and to be blunt, we're not. Maybe freeform is more your style. I play both and get different things out of them, do experiment.
However, to be honest I'd been considering withdrawing from the game myself once the current arc is over for various reasons. This only makes that more likely. I totally get not wanting to play due to weird time constraints, for which Cid is a true hero.
As for you, though, I think a few things could mix up your enjoyment significantly.
Firstly, really do try to think while playing. And read the OOC chat. <_<
Second, revise your spell selection thoroughly. It's not broad and doesn't give you many tricks. You've long since seen how Dune runs the game; there are many niche spells you have that just aren't too useful, and I think you could do something about that. I know you have the fire niche but the straight-up truth is that it's not exceptionally effective, at least not without some serious hax. And you will still need alternatives. I do think you get fucked by enemy defenses more than any other member of the party though. It can't be fun to go up against waves of enemies with SR and high resistances. The way it works, fighter dudes still tend to beat harsh ACs, but spellcasters just never have their actions work, which I know to be enormously frustrating.
Third, taking a breather's probably fine, although I honestly thing a new game might suit you better. I don't think you need to quit over interpersonal issues in the slightest, although a break might be great. But unless you minmax your character to the degree that others have, you'll always be on the back foot, which can lead to the game being unfun. To be entirely blunt I think the current party lineup is stupidly hard to generate encounters for that are fun for everyone, and from the player side the only way to cure that is for people to modify their characters a bit.
Quote from: Carthrat on November 24, 2010, 05:06:02 AM
I've enjoyed playing with you for the most part, although I guess I'd agree you could stand to think before you act a bit more.
Won't have time to respond to anything in detail until Friday, so this'll do for now. Irritation at the occasional headdesk-inducing stunt shouldn't be taken as personal dislike.
Ew... If you have to wake up 3 hours after game ends, I'd say to go ahead and drop (Cid's kinda nuts for doing it himself), particularly with a new job on the horizon when you want to impress your boss and be kept on board. If you have time to rejoin later (or think you can do what Cid is doing), figure out if you really want to do so as Nikki or a new character.
Dipping into an "I told you so", I did warn you a number of times that casters in general are a fair bit more complex and have more math behind 'em. To be fair, I made this worse by suggesting multiclassing when you were doing chargen. In spite of knowing you were already a bit over your head, I stupidly made the math stuff more complicated for you. You got a good handle on it since then at least, but I know that's part of what's made Nikki a struggle, so sorry about that.
The main problem though is that you prefer feeling like your character is actively doing stuff vs "behind-the-scenes" stuff, so you don't enjoy having to use up your turn to buff team or to do tactics/battlefield control casting, and even modified your spell lists to focus on a fire theme as a result.
From the sounds of it, that's not really working out for you, with it causing you problems when attacking isn't the right option or when you encounter stuff that's good at countering your theme. If you stick it out with Nikki, you're just going to either open up to those options again, or look at at least going beyond your fire/attack theme.
Most importantly, remember that rolling a new character is always an option, and you don't have to come back to Nikki after a break. Take it a step further and try something entirely different.
Quote from: El Cideon on November 24, 2010, 07:06:38 AM
Quote from: Carthrat on November 24, 2010, 05:06:02 AM
I've enjoyed playing with you for the most part, although I guess I'd agree you could stand to think before you act a bit more.
Won't have time to respond to anything in detail until Friday, so this'll do for now. Irritation at the occasional headdesk-inducing stunt shouldn't be taken as personal dislike.
I feel like shit, so coherency isn't high, but yeah this sentiment. Getting annoyed when blasted in the game doesn't mean I think 'hey, get out of here'.
I appreciate the input. I suppose I worry too much about being an asshole and I try not to act like one. It just seems like lately, most of the decisions I've been making haven't been thought out or they don't take into consideration other players.
Will respond later in greater detail, once I come to a decision.
Interesting stuff.
I'm thinking about putting Planar down for these and other reasons. Rat's thinking about dropping due to personal reasons, Zeph's having all this, Cid constantly contorts his schedule to make it and Gate has the constant battle over time and stomach maladies. I feel like critical mass has been exceeded, the sum of the various little problems are too much. It's a fun game and the RP is great, but my will to handle the downsides has eroded. Due to all of this, I feel like it's time to let go and move onto something else.
Thoughts? If anyone has a good reason otherwise that compels me, I'll consider it. Otherwise I'm going to put this down.
Been waiting for that.
I'll be honest, I'm of two minds on the game. While I'm playing, I have fun. It may not seem it to Dune because I gripe at him alot in PM, but I greatly exaggerate my feelings about things online just to make sure they get across as a rule. But while not playing, I don't really think about the game and come Tuesday I feel like I'm just dragging myself into playing. Been this way since the Abyss arc. Part of that's just that the game's felt liek a steady spiral down into GRIMDARK sometimes, which I am not even remotely a fan of. And even moreso with the current arc feeling like it was going to split the party no matter how it went.
So...I guess I'm saying that I won't argue in favor of the game staying, though I'll keep on if we do keep it. I do enjoy the game while playing it, usually, just find it hard to get enthused about it until we start rolling.
Yeah, the arc that started with us joining the lich and moved since then hasn't been enjoyable largely on the basis of what Gate said (Player against player and player agenda against player agenda having a fair bit of the spotlight making it hard to believe we'd be grouped post arc).
I'd like to keep going, but I don't have a compelling reason to say you should run it if you don't want to anymore.
Eh. Every game has off sessions or plots that don't appeal to everyone. I really want to say dudes should just soldier it out and we'll move onto something more your speed once it's done. I still look forward to the game and would be disappointed if it stopped (not least because finding Ami is really only half the work that needs doing there). And if I had a problem with sleep contortionist antics, I wouldn't have kept it up for a year. I can't really do anything about GM burnout, but that's my attitude here. Am curious what Dune's reasons are here, actually.
That I seem to get way different things out of this game to other players, indeed specifically Gate and Drac here now that 'Grimdark' and conflicting agendas is mentioned, is part of the reason I've decided to drop. I can't enjoy a game much if I feel other people hate it for the reasons I like it (and vice versa, really.) A compromise wouldn't really please anyone, either.
My reasons? Okay!
1. Too many different directions.
Rat references this above though it runs to other things like that. Too many people want too many different things and tones out of this game. Some variation is fine, too much dilutes the entire product. The GM can only cater to so many things and have a game stay together. Drac wants a popcorn game, Rat wants a more intense game, Adail doesn't like grimdark and so on. This leads to number 2.
2. Lack of party coherency.
Simply put, the PCs haven't ever truly synced together. You guys travel together but aren't a strong team. Out of battle you tend to do whatever and chase your own things, with differing goals and not a lot of inter-connectivity. In battle teamwork tends to be shaky at best, last night in particular had some shining examples of that.
3. The spark is gone.
Somewhere along the way I lost my passion for running this game. It's been fun, but it's like a dead marriage. You go through the motions but the romance is gone. Too many little things lead to death by papercuts, I guess.
Random opinionating:
If the DM is burned out on running the game, the game is over. We really shouldn't bother with skipping around, even though it's fair to let everyone have their last word.
Unrealism and yammering:
Yup, definitely some different views, though admittingly from my end, I kinda wish if with serious stuff like the last arc, we went it with more clear OOC statement of agenda. I suppose I'm really different on this regard, but usually I take it as an unstated rule that we're trying to keep everyone who is playing working together. I don't mind in a theatric if someone goes "I'm working toward this dramatic fatal end with my arch-nemesis". I tried to ping on this toward the start of the arc to try and get a feel on where people (particularly the one most involved) was wanting to take it...but got silence back on that which made it a lot more uncomfortable as the game moved toward 'well, you guys are enslaved by the lich and you guys are not'. I dunno, I think the whole lich arc could've been fun for me if I had a clear understanding on how it wasn't set to tear the team entirely apart (even if it was 'We're leaving these characters and will rejoin as new ones or something), but well, it kinda did effectively tear the team apart with leaving us with the option of playing it seriously and having the game get very grim as we tried to work through serious issues ("So you're a slave of the lich for the next 7 years, how's that working for you?") or we somewhat ignored them and moved on as a group anyway. I dunno, mostly yammering, not quite sure if I got this off in any non-whiny way.
I almost kind of wish Rat's char had been the focal point of serious stuff because overall he was better at foreshadowing his wants in this regard, which made it easier to think of them. Having Nikki as a focal point made it difficult. And having Mari have another serious life changing event in almost the same day made it hard to treat her serious event as a separate thing to play around.
I guess when playing more seriously, I sorta expect it to get more like theater would, where folks start sketching out scenes and agenda well in advance and figuring out how they'll interplay for maximum drama rather than the more casual running of the mouth and playing of a character against the scene of the moment. I dunno, maybe played a bit too much freeform lately and it's influencing my thoughts.
QuoteUnrealism and yammering:
Yup, definitely some different views, though admittingly from my end, I kinda wish if with serious stuff like the last arc, we went it with more clear OOC statement of agenda. I suppose I'm really different on this regard, but usually I take it as an unstated rule that we're trying to keep everyone who is playing working together. I don't mind in a theatric if someone goes "I'm working toward this dramatic fatal end with my arch-nemesis". I tried to ping on this toward the start of the arc to try and get a feel on where people (particularly the one most involved) was wanting to take it...but got silence back on that which made it a lot more uncomfortable as the game moved toward 'well, you guys are enslaved by the lich and you guys are not'. I dunno, I think the whole lich arc could've been fun for me if I had a clear understanding on how it wasn't set to tear the team entirely apart (even if it was 'We're leaving these characters and will rejoin as new ones or something), but well, it kinda did effectively tear the team apart with leaving us with the option of playing it seriously and having the game get very grim as we tried to work through serious issues ("So you're a slave of the lich for the next 7 years, how's that working for you?") or we somewhat ignored them and moved on as a group anyway. I dunno, mostly yammering, not quite sure if I got this off in any non-whiny way.
Nah, I hear where you're coming from. I chalk this up to a few things - the two week gap at the start of this really let things stew. It did no one any favors and poisoned the pot. Secondly this was on purpose, the Lich Arc was meant to be a 6-8 session arc with many possible outs and resolutions to it. Some team interplay and strife was one of the themes of the arc, as well as a counterpoint to certain other things that you would have come across. The idea was to move this fast enough so that this sort of attitude wouldn't fester and we could get through it well enough.
I do disagree with your basic point here though. Tipping my hand as the DM spoils things and it's something I'm wholeheartedly against. You guys trust me to run a game and keep it going well, I trust you guys to go along with it and accept that. Things might look dark for awhile, but I'm going to lead things along on an enjoyable story. At least in theory, you know? The a good DM shouldn't need to reveal his cards like that 'cause he understands this point.
PS. Zeph feel free to hop on IRC if you want, I see you lurking the forums. >_>
Player feedback and comments. I want to do this and I don't want to get into spoilery things yet, in case something happens to make us keep playing. Not likely, but I'm also giving Cid the courtesy and chance to reply first before making anything final. (If any of you have any relevant comments, speak up now. Like tonight or early tomorrow now.) I'll do one person per post.
Rat
You started Planar with a lights-out concept for a character. It's one of the best I've ever seen, rich in hooks and original! It draws on the D&D mythos and a notorious item that gets visceral reactions. You did fine from there, though I always thought Knight's growth was a little slow and started tapering off near the end game. I wish there had been more scenes later on like the jewelry shop in Ogremoch's territory. As a player you understood battle well and tried to apply strategy, as much as this group would.
Extra thanks for tolerating me fucking a bit with the Deck quest. I figured consistent was the last thing Limbo tearing the Deck apart would cause; there's no way each of them would have been pretty cards sitting around, waiting to be claimed. If you want to blame anyone for Rogue/Throne/Star, blame Limbo. Fucking Limbo.
I always felt Knight was drifting towards LN as the game went, but never really had a watershed to get there. She'd creep back a bit then drift closer, back and forth.
On the down side? Man, not every enemy's going to be tactically minded or a battle genius. You set your standards way too high. Not every opponent is a military trained tactician who ponders every course of action for the absolute optimal one. Chill a bit there, man.
Gate
I liked the concept of Adail and bent the rules to make it work better. He was never going to be balanced in a PC sense, but he worked well enough as a character. I suspect later on the cleric casting would distort his effectiveness upward, but this was way long term and not within the scope of the game. Any which way, thanks for the nice PC idea and he fit in well. I saw Adail slowly proceed towards his dream, taking steps to improve himself against all comers. That was cool, and I was hoping the Lich would be a place for a strong moral test of his fiber. No matter the choices he made when it was all over, I felt he would be much better defined. The way it was going, I think I was right.
I don't mind you not being around for extra stuff. That's completely your call and a factor of how much you want to invest into the game. I'm also completely sympathetic to stomach problems, I have some of the same issues. Sure, you missed some time and sessions because of that, but it's okay. That all being said, did you feel that by putting in less you were less attached/involved/important in the game than others? Other players, do you have an opinion there?
If Adail ever went back home to Elysium at high/epic levels, he'd be sent on a quest to prove his battle worthiness against a powerful foe. In particular, a Max HD hellcat terror from the Gates of Hell. I could think of no better way to prove he was the baddest rodent around.
Bad stuff? Slow typing is a minor concern. I'm not going to rehash that canard since it's not fair to you and it's not fair for me to tell you how to type. What else...I wished you'd hit up Nikkolai as a mentor harder, though not all of this was your fault. Still, even being more reserved and leading by example for it said a lot about Adail's morals, too.
I think you were pretty solid but never quite hooked into the game. A lot of reasons, some of which are above. Happens.
You're a pretty great player over all. Since I forgot to add this to Rat's post, he's great too. I'd recommend you to other DMs.
She didn't 'grow', no. Not really. She's meant to be static to some degree. I was prepared to enter into romance subplots of some variety, but there were no interesting guys. (Really, there weren't too many cool NPCs to bond with, which I think is a shame.)
I don't mind you putting a spin on the deck quest at all! I expected them to manifest as other people or as local phenomena. But I must admit that I'm disheartened as to how many came down to a fight, or pushed towards it. Star was a fight. Skull was a fight. Talons was a fight. Rogue was meant to be a fight and I recall you telling me you didn't expect it to not be. Gem was a fight, except he at least wasn't the one fighting. I felt you could've been far more creative there.
Moon and Balance weren't a fight, but I have to admit the whole challenge there was so bizzare that I still don't know what to make of it. I guess it fits?
On tactics, I don't need every opponent to be a military genius. But I do want them to have some degree of common sense? Or for them to not suddenly suffer brain failure if they start winning. This is kind of an offshoot, but I always look for reasons why people behave the way they do. When it's nonsensical, I get frustrated. Unfortunately, a lot of extreme-alignment-creatures behave in nonsensical ways. This game reminded me why I don't like alignments, honestly, especially when they're explicit world elements.
I don't really want to talk about other players myself. If you're interested, PM me?
Actually I'm sort of wrong on Gem. It was only a fight after I got him! Right.
Quote from: Carthrat on November 26, 2010, 01:46:53 AMShe didn't 'grow', no. Not really. She's meant to be static to some degree. I was prepared to enter into romance subplots of some variety, but there were no interesting guys. (Really, there weren't too many cool NPCs to bond with, which I think is a shame.)
Agreed. I wished Granny Tam could have been around more, or Rogue or a few other interesting sorts. It never worked out due to the nature of the game, and I was hesitant to add a constant NPC face traveling with you. I ended up with Yulia when it did happen. Don't get me wrong, I liked her and had fun with her, but another NPC would've been better there. That said this is basically the peril of running a game with lots of traveling and no set location.
QuoteI don't mind you putting a spin on the deck quest at all! I expected them to manifest as other people or as local phenomena. But I must admit that I'm disheartened as to how many came down to a fight, or pushed towards it. Star was a fight. Skull was a fight. Talons was a fight. Rogue was meant to be a fight and I recall you telling me you didn't expect it to not be. Gem was a fight, except he at least wasn't the one fighting. I felt you could've been far more creative there.
Moon and Balance weren't a fight, but I have to admit the whole challenge there was so bizzare that I still don't know what to make of it. I guess it fits?
Balance wasn't quite right upstairs. Having the ability to alter reality at will on a Limbo damaged card-concept lead to him being a bit erratic. I agree with the rest, I meant for a little more variety there. The next card - probably Sun or some such since you were in a world with Lathander - was loosely plotted to be a puzzle.
QuoteOn tactics, I don't need every opponent to be a military genius. But I do want them to have some degree of common sense? Or for them to not suddenly suffer brain failure if they start winning. This is kind of an offshoot, but I always look for reasons why people behave the way they do. When it's nonsensical, I get frustrated. Unfortunately, a lot of extreme-alignment-creatures behave in nonsensical ways. This game reminded me why I don't like alignments, honestly, especially when they're explicit world elements.
Take a pit fiend. It has a super-genius intellect, wisdom and charisma. It behaves perfectly rational and up to it's fearsome mental capacities,
if you accept the basic caveat that it does so through a filter of lawful evil. To our standards of sane, they ain't sane at all. To our standards, any outsider is insane. To their standards, they're absolutely right and logical in everything they do. (Or unlogical with slaad, whatever.) I think going into a game and expecting fantastical creatures to act according to how you think is a fallacy.
Oh, and I was pretty sure you wanted some of Rogue for romance. At least that's the vibe I got. That was one reason he was going to come back, to see if that went anywhere.
You bringing up Knight/Rogue combined with your current sig has me in a minor giggle fit.
CARDCEST MOTHERFUCKERS, RULE 34 THAT SHIT.
Thanks Gate!
Drac
We butted heads a fair deal in game, so this one's probably going to be more negative toned than the rest.
Eva was a good concept but she died young. Kam? I think you retreated back to a safe character type after Eva's death, the strong barbarian build that reminds me of Gourash. I don't mind the concept as it stood and the routine about being an eternal travelers was strong. Sure, that worked, being exalted didn't. Maybe we don't fit on what exalted means and should be, maybe it's a tone thing. No matter what the answer is to that, I never felt Kam was an exalted character. Taking on that burden is a heavy one both in play and in RP, while you wanted something lighter. I continually felt you wanted a much more casual, popcorn and beer game than I was pitching. I wanted to test Kam's morals some and make his ethics a part of the game. He's a walking demi-exemplar of chaotic good, so let's put some challenges to him. It's great grist for the RP mill, but it never clicked.
This was reinforced by the fact that you always seem confused on what was happening in session, being corrected at least once or twice each one. It felt like you weren't paying attention to the details, but going along for the next chance to trip and stab a bunch of things. This got worse later on which did not help anything, doubly so since your reaction to the lich scenario was negative. I never got around to talking to you about it - too much crap was going on - but this drove me Up. A. Fucking. Wall. There are times when I wanted to reach through the net, grab you by the collar and scream PAY ATTENTION. Shit, I almost wanted Yulia to break the fourth wall to do it once or twice.
Why I didn't I clear this up? It pissed me off in session, but I dislike stopping a game session to chew a player out. Unless someone is grossly out of line, at best you're wasting session time, at worst you're humiliating them in front of the group and ruining the entire night. Afterwords it usually got lost in the ether and I forgot to until next session. Then it comes up again and ASDF time.
There's the thing about Kam's build, but I should have deep-sixed that when you put him up. My bad there, we talked about this before.
So far I've been pretty damn negative! So let's be positive, since I don't want to sound like I think you're the next CuteKitsuneKaydee.
You invested a lot into the game and did a lot of out of character work. I really appreciate you doing the stats, logs and all the gruntwork.
No matter how I disagree with things, I do feel you had fun and wanted other people to have fun. That always shone through, no matter what.
Edit: On re-reading this, I think it's obvious that a lot of little frustrations built up here.
Dude, he was my brother!
You are correct on fantastical creatures. I'm aware it should work that way, and have run NPCs and had such NPCs run for me in the past that worked, the whole alien mindset thing. I can't put my finger on why I thought yours were so unsatisfying to deal with- I know they didn't all grate on me, although some did. I think 'IS EVIL' or 'IS CHAOTIC NEUTRAL' is not a good (hrhrhr) starting place for figuring out a cool supernatural being.
Quote from: Carthrat on November 26, 2010, 02:06:00 AM
Dude, he was my brother!
I remember you two close together, face to face in the rain in the Court of Stars. <_<
QuoteYou are correct on fantastical creatures. I'm aware it should work that way, and have run NPCs and had such NPCs run for me in the past that worked, the whole alien mindset thing. I can't put my finger on why I thought yours were so unsatisfying to deal with- I know they didn't all grate on me, although some did. I think 'IS EVIL' or 'IS CHAOTIC NEUTRAL' is not a good (hrhrhr) starting place for figuring out a cool supernatural being.
Yeah. I'm never sure why we failed to connect there. I can't put my finger on it either.
Cid
Mari was the weakest concept of the group. She wasn't bad, but the rest of the concepts were really strong. So I wasn't sure what to expect with Mari! What I got was a whole lot of willing, in good faith chaos that helped keep the game moving. I'll be honest, I really liked Mari and DMing for her. Her resilience and willingness to do whatever whimsy told her to made DMing a hell of a lot of fun. You got along well, RPed well and generally tolerated what I did to Mari! Even when she got a tail and nearly turned into a 'loth, or when her sister ended up a Baatorian fangirl. Thanks!
Despite all the bluster, all the noise and all the crap, Mari had fun and worked with what she had. Yay. I get along well with Cid as a player I think, so I have to give him high marks.
On the downside, since I don't want this to sound like a BJ of a review? I think you pushed Zeph a bit too hard OOC at times and Nik IC. This is hard to gauge, but I thought it went overboard at times.
Hell, I don't have a lot to say about you. You're good, I liked Mari. General like makes it hard to do much besides posting glowing affirmations, and there were no real dislikes to hit you on. After that Drac commentary, I feel guilty writing a nice one.
Ami is her own post later on.
Zeph
Two sides.
RPwise, you're great. You had some consistency and memory issues, but overall you hit Nikkolai well. Your RP was good, you were distinct and a lot of fun once you learned how things worked. Sure, you made some blunders, but that's okay! Your sense of OOC issues could use a touch of work - hi rust - but nothing was too terribly bad. You were fun to DM for as far as all of that went.
Gamewise...eeeeh. I'm not sure if D&D is the right system for you. It's possible one of us dropped the ball, be it me teaching you it or you learning it. More likely you're not suited to this sort of rules and dice heavy game. You don't think in terms of the rules and don't have a strong grasp of them. This held you back in D&D, as well as a general slowness learning the system. Near the end you were still struggling with basic things like caster level and that's pretty telling. Have you played in a rules heavy system before? Have you struggled with it if so, or with other systems?
You're good, learn this system or find a better one for you and go nuts. You're a fine player as far as RPing goes. If the system doesn't work, find a new system. There's nothing wrong with that. Don't be too negative on yourself. Learn from your mistakes and don't start thinking everyone hates you, wants you to leave and so on. That be the way of the EMO. Don't be that.
Anyway, Nik stuff is tied up too much with the Lich, so no comments there yet.
ouch. :( Sorry I made things miserable for ye ko. I never really clicked that I was playing far off from how you saw exalted as needing to be played. I knew I didn't click with how Rat saw it, but I didn't realize you had a problem as well with how I was playing it and didn't see that I was far off from how Adail or the NPC celestials were playing it.
If I was to give one feedback piece from my end on the DMing side, it would be that sometimes (often) it's good for the DM to give their own opinions on things, whether privately or publicly. It felt like a lot of the clashes following how I played got filtered through mass feedback sessions which I think were frustrating for all involved (Not the least you not seeing me change much to fit the feedback). I suppose it was my bad as well recognizing that there was discomfort in not going to you and saying 'how can we fix this', but man it was really hard to react sensibly like that when simultaneously being killed IC and tossed vague frustrations OOC. I feel our general discussions that were of the phrase of 'There's a problem, let's fix it' went pretty well, and resolved things a lot more effectively than any of the feedback threads managed.
Quote from: Anastasia on November 26, 2010, 01:03:54 AMI do disagree with your basic point here though. Tipping my hand as the DM spoils things and it's something I'm wholeheartedly against.
Just wanted to say that I agree with this principle 100%. Anyway, on to Mari stuff:
Quote from: Anastasia on November 26, 2010, 02:17:53 AMMari was the weakest concept of the group. She wasn't bad, but the rest of the concepts were really strong. So I wasn't sure what to expect with Mari!
I think this is pretty typical of the way I play/write anything, really. Generally I need a few sessions to sort out how someone talks and get comfortable with them. I could plan out a lot of elaborate backstory, but I never really
know a character until I've had a chance to write them some so my only real concern is giving myself and the GM just enough to build something off of and trust that we'll each do our job. I figured the few loose ends I had in the backstory were enough for you to work with (and ultimately you did about what I expected with that, which is cool).
Quote from: Anastasia on November 26, 2010, 02:17:53 AMOn the downside, since I don't want this to sound like a BJ of a review? I think you pushed Zeph a bit too hard OOC at times and Nik IC. This is hard to gauge, but I thought it went overboard at times.
I admit to some OOC impatience with him, yes. If I had to characterize Zeph in one word, it would be
young. This isn't a positive or negative judgment, just an observation that sometimes he's going to miss the point or do something impulsive and you might not be able to talk him out of it. Given who I was playing, I tried not to criticize too much for this. It
was amusing making fun of Nik IC, though. None of that should've been read as an OOC jab.
As far as Knight goes, I tried whenever I had an opportunity to get her to open up and do new things, although it seemed like the net result of this was usually Knight going "Oh god I'm never doing that again," and lately there hadn't been too many chances anyway. Too bad. I was really looking forward to setting Knight up on a date.
Never felt like I quite connected with Kam/Adail, honestly. Eva might've been different if she'd lived, hard to say.
The lich, eh?
Yeah, she was the focus of the Lich Arc. Ursagel wasn't, the plague wasn't, the Skyfather wasn't. The last arc is best understood when you realize that all of this arc is ultimately a part of the Lady's story. The key to victory didn't lie in defeating Ursagel, though doing so needed to happen in any event. Nor was finding a cure to the plague necessary to true victory. The Lady of the Green Kirtle can be best understood as a moral challenge, one to be explored, discovered and overcome. Everything in this scenario was built around this conceit.
Imagine a young girl. She's sharp and sarcastic, but she's lucky. She has a natural knack at magic, then she fell into a group of adventurers and they became fast friends. She's happy but the adventurer's life isn't for her, so she retires to open a magic shop while the others continue on. While she sits there and makes piles of gold, the others come by occasionally to buy magic. This young girl...she has everything. Money, magic, power. But not friends, you say? The Lady could never be sure where it started, but a distance formed between her and her friends. Perhaps it was because they stayed together while she left the group. Perhaps her biting words were less tolerable when she wasn't saving their lives regularly. It hardly matters why and how, does it? All that matters were the arguments with her former friends, and the eventual falling out between them. The Lady found herself with everything she could dream of except friends. She was rich but yet lacked the bonds that she craved, no matter how she lied to herself.
Were the Lady a better person, perhaps amends could have been made. If she could have put aside her hurt pride, friendships could have been mended. If she was wiser, she could have understood that other friends could be made. Yet...the angry cycle of blaming others for her failings took over. The all too human arrogance, a refusal to admit she was as wrong. She was a success, damn it! She had money, she had power, she had magic! Surely she was correct here as well, and her friends were at fault!
Through this her loneliness became bitterness, blaming her friends for abandoning her. In time bitterness steeped into despair, which lead her down dark paths. Paths she was hoping to salve the pain she held within her, but that only dragged her into excesses. In what a nightmare she found herself in - damned to horrible places, her emotions suppressed with a mask of ice, lost a personal hell. She withdrew from the world entirely, soon happening to obtain a useful child named Nikkolai. To her now, Nikkolai was nothing more than a resource to be used.
Time passed. The Lady understood her fate well enough - the pits of Baator or perhaps Gehenna. Age was creeping onto her, robbing her of beauty and life. While her beauty was nothing more than vanity, she clung to it out of reflex. More concerning was her mortality, something which she chose to abandon. In part to avoid her fate, certainly, but in part out of a small hope that undeath would kill the humanity in her and free her from her suffering. Of course, things did not go according to plan. Nikkolai escaped with her phylactery, a bothersome thing.
Clad in a mantle of eternal death, the Lady began to scry on him. At first she watched dispassionately, content to plan and prepare her revenge. As she did, something changed. Nikkolai grew closer to his companions, and in this old feelings emerged. Vivid anger overtook the Lady - this thief of a child had what she lost! Sharp and vicious as he was, yet he had what she wished for. What she gave up her life for! A cold fury overtook the Lady. This could not stand. No. Simple revenge was not good enough for Nikkolai. A grand revenge, one for all time was the only correct answer. As for the others? Nikkolai didn't deserve friends, she did. She'd give them power, money, support and make them her friends. Yes, she would befriend them...and make them hate Nikkolai for it.
Her plan came from that. Ursagel's ploy was a convenience, giving her a cudgel to beat the party into submission with. She would become their supporter, their patron, their...friend. She would make Nikkolai the scapegoat for it all, ruining his own friendships and sealing him into the despair she knew all too well. She would leech away his very feelings, except an overwhelming despair and melancholy that would overtake him completely in time.
---
Defeating the Lich was uncovering this in the game world. If you understood her, could call her on it and crack through her mask, a few powerful words could leave her defeated, prone and broken. For all her power she was still a lonely woman who desperately needed friends, to silence the ache within her. Understanding this allows you to compare and contrast Nikkolai to her - they're two sides of the same coin, the Lady at 21 was similar to Nikkolai at 21. Ideally this would allow an awesome denouncement to the arc, a way out of her service and a lot of growth all around. For Nikkolai it was obvious, for Adail and Kamvakua it was dealing with a mortal evil, one that is almost pathetic despite all it's alleged grandeur and might. For Knight it allows her to see another type of human and how they react, and see how important bonds can be. Mari was the odd one out here, so I integrated in her sister story.
---
Finding out how to defeat the Lady could have come from a few sources. The most likely one is was to have freed Estamont from Gullivet's Dive. This would have required going there against all logic of being in a hurry. To reach that conclusion would require paying attention to the Lady, seeing how Estamont was one of the few things to crack her mask at all. If you did some more mental work, you might remember that Estamont was a part of the Lady's band and start drawing your own conclusions. They weren't lovers - though this wasn't an unfair deduction - just close friends. If you wanted a leg up on the Lady, that was an obvious objective to go after.
More information was littered about as well. GIing the Lady in Amlyn could have been useful, as well as seeking out other sources of information. The angels of Lathander would have dropped a few clues to help, as would have some more notes and materials found as you tracked down Ursagel. In general figuring out the Lady took work and thought beyond the obvious objective of ending the plague.
Best case scenario? You guys figure out what was going on and confront her. With a good speech she'd fold up, her mask shattering to show her misery. Nikkolai in particular could be hyper effective. If he grew enough to make a speech calling out the Lady and showing how he was superior, it would simply devastate her. Leave her on her hands and knees sobbing, that sort of devastated. She needs the validation of friends and having those she so desperately and misguidedly tried to befriend is a hell of a gutshot.
Then what? Leaving her as a completely broken wreck is a viable option. A long period of depressive catatonia would result, essentially removing her as a threat. Attacking her while she was down would be effective, as she wouldn't rally any counter attacks immediately. The most ambitious project would be trying to salvage her as a person and perhaps even save her. This would require tremendous effort and work, especially on Nikkolai's part, but it might be possible.
Worst case scenario? Submitting to the Lady or attacking her. The former would result in her eventually converting the party into undead servitors - even Adail, there is such a thing as lich fiends though they're rare and obscure. That vision on the Abyss foreshadowed this and the ghost Mari incarnation the Gestaloth promised, by the way - and converting them to twisted servant-friends. Bad end, especially for Nik, who'd she'd make sure was loathed by all concern and locked in a devastating depression.
Alternately, fighting the lich was not a winning proposition. In her lair she is almost invincible and more than capable of TPKing the party in short order. Tackling the Lady as purely a combat problem was never the desired or intended outcome. For all the talk of combat solving most of your problems, I wanted one where combat was not the way to victory. There was a concerted effort to show her power off from the beginning, so you had ample warning if you chose to fight her.
---
I think there were a lot of meaty RP chances to be had here, it's a shame the game didn't make it through this arc.
Ami was pretty obvious on the surface. She's a Baatorian conscript and full of that sort of brain washing. She gets taken by the Lady and Mari has a chance to save her sister. Sounds nice, right?
If you guessed that the Lady engineered much of it, you're correct. Don't get me wrong, she didn't have Mari's family killed nor did she know about them until Nik fell in with her. She's not psychic. What the Lady did do is get in contact with Ami's superior, made nice and offered some shiny bribes as well as the location of the demon outpost her regiment was sent to attack. In return she bought Ami, as well as having her superior program her to believe Mari was Mari and to go along with the entire thing. If you wondered why Ami adapted so swiftly to the concept of being gated in, that's why.
Anyway, Ami is a confused young woman with loads of devil propaganda filling her ears. It would take a lot of work to chip through this, but progress was possible. The Lady ultimately wanted Mari to succeed, at least enough to further bind her to her service. There's a whole lot of thorny free will issues with this entire fiasco, which would possibly trip up Mari's chaotic side down the line. How they resolved was a fair question. Beyond that I was mostly winging it with her - I know enough about the Nine Hells to do that.
Incidentally, Ami had a half-fiend child while in Baator. Normally this kills the mortal mother, but her superior - who ordered her to spread her legs - intervened because he needed skilled soldiers due to politics. This wasn't too likely to come up and Ami considers it irrelevant. Could have been a quest later on, both for revenge on her superior and to perhaps save the child. If that was Mari's thing, anyway.
So what about the plague?
On the micro level, Ursagel is a fanatic who stumbled on forbidden yugoloth lore. In reality a yugoloth agent ensured he got it, having selected him as a perfect thrall. See, except for the two resident powers, there's very little planar interference in Nikkolai's world. It took a direct action by the Oinoloth to get that far and why only a few people truly grasped what a danger the Oinoloth is.
Anyway, Ursagel gets this lore and becomes a powerful priest of the Oinoloth. He forms his coalition, trains fanatical servants and does all the normal bad guy stuff on the quiet. He then launches massive and effective surprise attacks on the realm's heroes while letting loose the Oinoloth's plague. He makes sure his servants have limited knowledge and are spread out, all trying to avoid the typical bad guy mistakes. He had his shit together, anti scrying headquarters and lots of protections. He was ready for bear. If not for the Lady's interference - and who could expect a lich like her to bother caring about the people of Amlyn - he would have resoundingly won at least Amlyn, if not more.
On the macro level this is planar politics. The Oinoloth opposes Lathander, who is a deity of life. Taking a stab at an important world to Lathander is subtle yet obvious attack on him. All of this got into some pretty heavy world and planar politics, none of which the party needed to get deeply into. They could if they desired to or wanted to make the Oinoloth an enemy. Also, this was a test run for a nasty new plague he'd cooked up, so it had all sorts of benefits, including the reason this world is as it is.
It did have the downside of pissing off Bane, who is more than willing to take a swing at the Oinoloth. You'd have seen some loyal agents and devils in the service of Bane going after Ursagel too. This is half Bane's sandbox and hell if some 'loth trash is going to interfere.
Ursagel was mechanically a cleric/blackguard. I had him written as about level 13-15, depending on how strong I wanted the last fight to be. I hadn't statted him out yet.
Short answers!
What was Granny Tam? Answer: A bored shapeshifter with ties to the Court of Stars. She found a home in Hardsoil. There's no great story to her, she was what she was.
What the hell was up with that old guy who left Mari jewelry? Answer: A yugoloth starting a looooong scheme to try and screw over a bunch of people, using Mari as bait. Didn't work out, he moved onto other pieces of bait.
What the hell happened to Mari's family? Answer: Got in the way of some yugoloths, got killed. Yugoloths are assholes, boys and girls. Mari was missed and Ami was sold into Baatorian slavery for profit.
What does Adail taste like? Answer: Like chicken and sunshine. Mostly chicken.
Xorn king? REALLY? Answer: Yes and? It was funny, it lead to some amusing plot and everyone had fun. If you guys didn't get entangled in stuff after the lich arc, I was going to have a message from Granny Tam steer you back to Hardsoil. Dealing with the Xorn King was on the agenda.
What was with that dying githzerai monk in Air? Answer: Random stupid Limbo and slaad crap. Limbo leaked and spread it's batshit randomness to Air. Pursing this could lead to a quest or two as well as some loot. Not a huge miss.
What was with that bitchy spirit who gave Mari and Zeph axe skills? Answer: You know how prophecies have holy sites, waiting ghosts and all sorts of shit lined up for the chosen one? What happens when random people stumble on them? That. Sometimes a random encounter encounters something not a part of your story.
If Mari and Knight got together, would you enjoy it? Answer: Not really. It was a fun gag, but the chemistry wasn't there. Despite thinking Mari was into women, Knight wasn't. I don't know why I thought Mari was, but I got that impression early on.
Was that Zeph Knight/Mari fanfic creepy? Answer: Eeeh. I thought it was fine within reason but the rest of the group thought it was creepy. Fair enough, I do have thick skin.
Why did the Abyss foreshadow possible ghost Mari and zombie Adail? Answer: It's the Abyss. It's spiteful, it knows things, it just is. Trying to understand the Abyss is a path to madness, so accept it on face value and move on.
What was up with Quinsalus? Answer: Quinsalus is a yugoloth. If he doesn't betray you and steal all your treasure, he's a supremely useful guide. 50/50 odds of him doing so, especially if anything unfavorable to his reputation happened. Can't have a bad rep if all the people who found you vanished without a trace.
What the flying batfuck was up with Balance? Answer: Balance was screwed up from Limbo, hyper-devoted to its cause and had near cosmic power with Star. Yeah, that entire test was a big flashing 'HEY HE'S FUCKING UNSTABLE GUYS!'. The irony of Balance being unbalanced from Limbo is most pleasing to me.
Opening the floor up to questions, comments, feedback, anything. Get 'em out now that the game's over. I'd rather you post here than PM me on IRC, it's better for record keeping and not answering the same question three times.
I feel the Lich scenario could have gone in more ways than 'either you talk her into a crying heap, or you all lose'. Was that really the only way to 'win'? Was genuine companionship literally impossible without breaking her first? Did she actually want friends herself, or just to screw Nikki?
I can't help but think that IC, she never showed clear signs of being horrible or evil, and even your OOC description doesn't do much more than hint at her true badness- so it's hard for me to accept it was actually there. Likewise, it's hard for me to see her as a villain that must be overcome at all costs- or even a true villain. Indeed, I intended to work honestly and openly with her, if firmly. Would that have not got any good result, in the end?
I want to say that I really liked the way it was going, which is why I wanted to play it to the end- I also foresaw a party split, and that and other reasons lead to me saying I'd leave. Possibly a mistake in retrospect, but what can you do. I am somewhat disheartened, though, since I now have the impression there was only one good way to end the scenario, and it's of the sort that I'd never have come to on my own (certainly not IC and probably not OOC), and must admit to having doubts that others would as well.
<->
We touched on this earlier, and... look, I'd be able to take the whole 'the people you face are crazy nutjobs, you can't apply normal methods to their thinking!' if we also faced some people who weren't. Were any enemies intended to be, if not smart, at least somewhat savvy or sensible, and without crippling personality flaws that make them unable to function as people, let alone capable antagonists?
<->
You need to have less rape, implied rape, and weaponized babies in your games. Unless your goal is this! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5zpNfTfGZU) in which case go ahead by all means, but I don't think it was. The subject matter requires some gravity, you know? Otherwise it will reduce me, at least, to either fits of laughter or the rolling of the eyes. I think you can evoke horror, or at least grimness, without resorting to that sort of gorn. If you're gonna play such harsh atrocities, it's imperative you don't do so in a way that's funny (gestaloth) or tacky (Ami's thing, though since it didn't happen IC I have no idea how you'd have presented it.) If it might be, I think it's better to skip it.
What did I like? There were things I liked, believe it or not! I liked Rogue, and it saddened me greatly to see him on the 'most hated NPCs' list. I like the way you handled my mount acquisition. Bell's death was unfortunate but hardly out of place. I liked parts of Arborea- the visions of the future in particular. I liked unique locations- Stratusburg and Shivra spring to mind- I think they can be improved more if you give context to their existence, but still! I liked opportunities to develop as a person (thank you, Mari! I would've gone for a date if you set me up on one, too..) I liked how the situation on the Elemental Plane of Earth developed, though I'm saddened we didn't get to stick around to see the results.
Actually, that's a good question- how did all of that go down?
Quote from: Anastasia on November 27, 2010, 12:50:57 AMIf you guessed that the Lady engineered much of it, you're correct. Don't get me wrong, she didn't have Mari's family killed nor did she know about them until Nik fell in with her. She's not psychic. What the Lady did do is get in contact with Ami's superior, made nice and offered some shiny bribes as well as the location of the demon outpost her regiment was sent to attack. In return she bought Ami, as well as having her superior program her to believe Mari was Mari and to go along with the entire thing. If you wondered why Ami adapted so swiftly to the concept of being gated in, that's why.
Fucking knew it. Of course, it accomplished nothing to actually confront her about it. Bringing that up during the conversation is something I can only attribute to fatigue late in the session.
Mostly what I figured, in regards to Ami. Was looking forward to deprogramming her, figured Mari's persistence there would at some point evoke Rogue a little and didn't care.
As far as the Lady goes, I was getting hints near the end that there was more going on with her personally, but first and foremost was always the very obvious fact that her primary interest was in exploiting us. Hard to get past that. Mari was ready to insist that everyone else leave her behind and get the hell away from the creep after the plague arc was over, assuming nothing disrupted the status quo between the group and the Lady.
Out of curiosity, how much did you have planned for the undiscovered cards? I forget how many were left out there.
Who was that dude who bitched Mari out in the ghost of Christmas future sequence?
QuoteFucking knew it. Of course, it accomplished nothing to actually confront her about it. Bringing that up during the conversation is something I can only attribute to fatigue late in the session.
Mostly what I figured, in regards to Ami. Was looking forward to deprogramming her, figured Mari's persistence there would at some point evoke Rogue a little and didn't care.
The Lady wasn't entire subtle about it, but she had good, plausible deniability. That was enough.
QuoteAs far as the Lady goes, I was getting hints near the end that there was more going on with her personally, but first and foremost was always the very obvious fact that her primary interest was in exploiting us. Hard to get past that. Mari was ready to insist that everyone else leave her behind and get the hell away from the creep after the plague arc was over, assuming nothing disrupted the status quo between the group and the Lady.
Out of curiosity, how much did you have planned for the undiscovered cards? I forget how many were left out there.
Who was that dude who bitched Mari out in the ghost of Christmas future sequence?
Yeah, the Lady was a slow burn. Set things up, make her more human and yet have her ruthlessly try and break the party, keep the fires stoked as you get through the arc.
Not much. I usually worked them out whenever you were about to go to a new plane. I had a few bits of planning and sorting, but mostly I played them by ear. Limbo works great with that sort of random bullshitting.
A person from a possible version of Mari's later life. A ghost of what could be.
Quote from: Carthrat on November 27, 2010, 01:05:48 PM
Lich stuff
Yeah, there's a lot of in between results and messed that could result from it. I mainly highlighted the extremes since they're the most evocative. To your second point, yes, she never showed herself as a true baby-eating evil. This was on purpose. Certainly she did horrible things and experimented with forbidden undeath. Nonetheless, she knew how to manipulate your perceptions and appear as the lesser of two evils. She wasn't grandiose in wanting to damn souls or unleash a plague onto the world. She was a quieter, mortal evil.
QuoteWe touched on this earlier, and... look, I'd be able to take the whole 'the people you face are crazy nutjobs, you can't apply normal methods to their thinking!' if we also faced some people who weren't. Were any enemies intended to be, if not smart, at least somewhat savvy or sensible, and without crippling personality flaws that make them unable to function as people, let alone capable antagonists?
Offhand? Michum, Granny Tam(Eccentric but not insane), Kikula, harpy-bitch, Ursagel? Probably more if I sit down and think about it. Not all of those are antagonists, but that makes the point. There were plenty of intelligent, sensible folks out there.
QuoteYou need to have less rape, implied rape, and weaponized babies in your games. Unless your goal is this! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5zpNfTfGZU) in which case go ahead by all means, but I don't think it was. The subject matter requires some gravity, you know? Otherwise it will reduce me, at least, to either fits of laughter or the rolling of the eyes. I think you can evoke horror, or at least grimness, without resorting to that sort of gorn. If you're gonna play such harsh atrocities, it's imperative you don't do so in a way that's funny (gestaloth) or tacky (Ami's thing, though since it didn't happen IC I have no idea how you'd have presented it.) If it might be, I think it's better to skip it.
Eh. One hand I think you have a point, on the other I think we just have differing tastes on horror and how to present these things. I don't think the gestaloth was the least bit funny, for example. Ami would've presented it as something that happened, cold and clinical. The horror of it is realizing what happened and how.
To be honest I think you're taking two cases way out of context.
QuoteActually, that's a good question- how did all of that go down?
Nasty little war for awhile, the Xorn are pushed back but not eliminated. It degenerates into lower scale guerrilla actions while various sides fan the flames. What happens there depended on if you guys got involved or not.
I especially enjoyed my time in Shivra and "Cloud City"! When we were all flying about and stuff, Nikk took a great deal of pleasure in it and let a small remnant of his repressed childhood bleed out.
Stuff I'd Really Like To Know:
1. What was up with that little boy that the Lich supposedly took on as another apprentice? Was that a ruse? Was she really keeping him out of sight somewhere in her place? Did she plan to rear him as Nikkolai's replacement?
2. I admit that the thought of redeeming her never really crossed my mind. Nikk hated her far too much to even consider the possibility. Would she have been content with me becoming her apprentice in truth? Would she have seen me as a surrogate son? Or someone to keep an eye on in case I stabbed her in the back?
3. Calariel is something that's also intrigued me quite a bit. What would she have done had she met me in my undead state? Would there have been a future there (with more solar nookie!) if I had stayed undead or even attempted to become alive again?
4. How did the Lich break my contract with Balinbomb? The way that some NPCs talked, getting into a bargain with the Fey pretty much means that nothing, not even death or other various circumstances, will keep them from holding you to your end of the bargain. I figure she must have had something epic up her sleeve to get him to back off.
5. Nikkolai's heritage was also something I wanted to explore more in depth. Remember that whole Fire Bloodline thing? What would that have led to? Discovering that I had nubile fire nymphs for ancestors? I was a distant relative of a powerful elemental? Some naughty dragon did the horizontal mambo with a great, great^6-grandmother and left me with an affinity for fire? I'm curious.
Overall, I enjoyed the game. The Abyss was equal parts annoying, fun, and epic. Adail WTFPWNing that dragon was one of the few highlights of the game. I wish I could have seem him rock more. Granny Tam has my vote for Best NPC.
More random thoughts could be forthcoming as I think of them.
Quote from: Zephyrus on November 27, 2010, 03:11:38 PM1. What was up with that little boy that the Lich supposedly took on as another apprentice? Was that a ruse? Was she really keeping him out of sight somewhere in her place? Did she plan to rear him as Nikkolai's replacement?
He was another opportunity, the lich getting her hands on another apprentice/victim. He wasn't directly connected to her plans right now, she kept him well hidden away. She had various plans for him, but none of them were solidified yet. Her main focus was on Nikkolai.
Quote2. I admit that the thought of redeeming her never really crossed my mind. Nikk hated her far too much to even consider the possibility. Would she have been content with me becoming her apprentice in truth? Would she have seen me as a surrogate son? Or someone to keep an eye on in case I stabbed her in the back?
She wanted Nikkolai to suffer. Not for stealing her phylactery, though this is an insult, but for having what she craved so much. She wanted to break Nikkolai down, make him miserably suffer for eternity and all that nasty shit. As long as her motives don't change and her mask is in place, that's her goal. If you could breech this through hook or crook...mmm.
It would depend on how you did and how she ended up after the fact. It's hard to say, since it's so damn dependent on how things would have resolved.
Quote3. Calariel is something that's also intrigued me quite a bit. What would she have done had she met me in my undead state? Would there have been a future there (with more solar nookie!) if I had stayed undead or even attempted to become alive again?
Calariel firmly believes that you need to solve your own problems and grow on your own. That said, if you came to her as a necropolitian twisted by the Lady, she'd change you back if you came seeking restoration If you embraced your undead nature, it wouldn't go so well.
Quote4. How did the Lich break my contract with Balinbomb? The way that some NPCs talked, getting into a bargain with the Fey pretty much means that nothing, not even death or other various circumstances, will keep them from holding you to your end of the bargain. I figure she must have had something epic up her sleeve to get him to back off.
Limited Wish plus a successful opposed caster check against Balinbomb.
Quote5. Nikkolai's heritage was also something I wanted to explore more in depth. Remember that whole Fire Bloodline thing? What would that have led to? Discovering that I had nubile fire nymphs for ancestors? I was a distant relative of a powerful elemental? Some naughty dragon did the horizontal mambo with a great, great^6-grandmother and left me with an affinity for fire? I'm curious.
I was going to go with an elemental several generations back, maybe the nymphs to explain Nik's charisma. Either one would've worked.
Quote from: DuneTo be honest I think you're taking two cases way out of context.
With Ami it is possible, since it never happened so I can't judge it. (I think it would've been more effective for it to be the one thing that actually gets her to show fear or horror, because horror thrives on the unexpected and Ami was set up to be pretty much fearless. Her being callous about is what we were used to at that point, though one could contest that if someone is capable of being offhand about such a terrible thing, it has some very nasty implications for what they consider normal.)
Nonetheless, try to understand that I wouldn't bring this up unless I thought it was true, and I'm not lying about how the whole scene made me react, so I don't think you can say I'm taking it out of context. Yes, objectively, the sort of shit we confronted would be pretty terrible to come across, but that alone doesn't make it capable of evoking the emotions I think were the aim there.
As always, I can't accept 'he/she's undead! Must be evil!' without some clear sign that it is an inherent in-world truth. Nikkolai was undead. He didn't seem too evil. Functioned pretty normally, too! I think you really need to attach some inherent drawback to the undead condition that means it's impossible to
be or
create an undead creature without performing an evil act, or constantly performing evil acts.
Quote from: Carthrat on November 27, 2010, 07:47:18 PMWith Ami it is possible, since it never happened so I can't judge it. (I think it would've been more effective for it to be the one thing that actually gets her to show fear or horror, because horror thrives on the unexpected and Ami was set up to be pretty much fearless. Her being callous about is what we were used to at that point, though one could contest that if someone is capable of being offhand about such a terrible thing, it has some very nasty implications for what they consider normal.)
You hit it dead on. I wanted it to be a moment where you nod, think about it and go 'oh...OH!'. A delayed reaction bit of horror about the sort of things Baator is capable of in it's endless kowtowing to authority.
QuoteNonetheless, try to understand that I wouldn't bring this up unless I thought it was true, and I'm not lying about how the whole scene made me react, so I don't think you can say I'm taking it out of context. Yes, objectively, the sort of shit we confronted would be pretty terrible to come across, but that alone doesn't make it capable of evoking the emotions I think were the aim there.
As always, I can't accept 'he/she's undead! Must be evil!' without some clear sign that it is an inherent in-world truth. Nikkolai was undead. He didn't seem too evil. Functioned pretty normally, too! I think you really need to attach some inherent drawback to the undead condition that means it's impossible to be or create an undead creature without performing an evil act, or constantly performing evil acts.
Nikkolai was undead and being driven to evil by it. From his PM about it:
Quote from: KoThis is addition to what was posted on the Gossip Board. This part is not for public dissemination!
1. Your soul is dead and cold. Your alignment shifts chaotic neutral(chaotic evil tendencies.) A cold, bitter emotionless state continually creeps onto you, freezing away joy, happiness and the verve to live.
2. You lose the spell good hope. This will be elaborated on IC next week.
3. You gain the following special quality.
Shattered Will (Ex)
The Lady of the Green Kirtle has remade Nikkolai in a profane image. During this his will was broken, trounced and left asunder. Nikkolai suffers a -3 penalty to any attack roll, saving throw, ability check, caster level check or damage roll against the Lady of the Green Kirtle. This is -not- known IC nor is it to be posted publically . Keep this to yourself and remember it, modifying any rolls that it comes up on.
How this executed was another matter - after this session I was going to talk to NIk and give him a few nudges about it, but well...you know. Game over. I did want it to be a slow corrupting creep, not an obvious change into pure batshit evil. That's now how the Lady works.
HEY LISTEN!
I'm going to miss saying that. It's sad that games end, but Master says that's what happens in life. I want to say thanks for all the good times and hope we'll met again some day! No matter what all of you think, even!
*Eyes Knight*
*Quickly flies away*
PS: Drac or Rat, post the last session's log?
We'll miss you too, Yulia.
We never got to get drunk together, Mari!
Life isn't fair.
I was curious how Yulia's build would look later on, so I did a few versions of her. This is the first, with her having gained seven levels. She's finished Combat Medic, giving her lots of bonus add ons when she heals. Oh, and it gives evasion. Score.
She's a strong healer and status curing machine by this point. She mixes in a little bit of buffing for good measure, but is a mostly self sufficient mending machine. The way this party was going, this is filling a sorely needed niche. I suspect she'd compete with Adail for healing, winning that battle and allowing him to focus on a fully martial spell selection. Her main flaw is HP; 87 HP around level 14-15 is dangerously low. Evasion and incorporeal mitigate the worst of this, but if a nasty monsters gets it's hands on her? Bad times.
By this point Yulia's offensive potential is near nil. Magic missile is still free damage, but her turns are better spent tending to the party or buffing them to do grievous bodily harm.
Yulia, courre favored soul 7/combat medic 5
Tiny Outsider (Good, Chaotic, Eladrin)
Hit dice: 9d8+18+5d6+10 (87 HP)
Initiative: +7
Speed: 20ft, fly 60ft (perfect)
Armor Class: 27 (+2 size, +5 dex, +4 natural, +5 armor, +1 dodge) (+2 deflection vs evil)
Base attack/Grapple: +9/-1
Attack: Longbow+21 (1d4+1d6+1d4)
Full Attack: Longbow+21/+16 (1d4+1d6+1d4)
Space/Reach: 2 1/2ft/0ft
Special Attacks: Spell-like abilities, spells.
Special Qualities: Alternate form, eladrin subtype, immunity to electricity and petrification, magic circle against evil, resistance to fire, acid and cold 10, tongues, healing kicker(DC 24 sanctuary, +5 competence to reflex, maximized aid), defensive casting+5, field healer, evasion, spontaneous heal.
Saves: Fort+11, Ref+20, Will+10 (+4 vs poison)
Abilities: Str 6, Dex 24, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 10, Cha 19
Skills: Concentration+16, Diplomacy+11, Escape Artist+17, Heal+10, Hide+29, Knowledge(Religion)+16, Knowledge(The Planes)+16, Listen+5, Move Silently+21, Sense Motive+5, Spot+5, Survival+0 (+2 on other planes), Use Rope+7(+9 bindings).
Feats: Dodge(1), Augment Healing(3), Weapon Focus(Longbow)(FS3), Touch of Healing(6), Combat Casting(9), Healer's Luck(12), Mobility(CM4)
Gear: Tiny longbow+2, shocking and screaming; wooden holy symbol, mithral breastplate+3, belt of constitution+2 and charisma+2.
Alignment: Chaotic Good.
Spells:
Yulia casts as a 12th level favored soul. (13th level for conjuration(healing) spells.)
Spell charges:
6/7/7/7/7/5/3
Spells known:
0: Create Water, Cure Minor Wounds, Detect Poison, Guidance, Light, Mending, Purify Food and Drink, Resistance, Virtue.
1: Bless, Cure Light Wounds, Lesser Vigor, Obscuring Mist, Ray of Hope, Resurgence.
2: Close Wounds, Cure Moderate Wounds, Delay Poison, Elation, Lesser Restoration, Remove Paralysis.
3: Cure Serious Wounds, Heart's Ease, Remove Blindness/Deafness, Remove Curse, Remove Disease, Remove Nausea.
4: Cure Critical Wounds, Death Ward, Freedom of Movement, Neutralize Poison, Restoration.
5: Break Enchantment, Chaav's Laugh, Mass Cure Light Wounds, Raise Dead.
6: Celestial Blood, Heal, Mass Cure Moderate Wounds.
Spell-like abilities: At will-Dancing lights, detect evil, detect magic, faerie fire; 3/day-Magic missile, sleep. 1/day-haste. Caster level 12th. The save DCs are charisma based.
Alternate Form (Su)
A courre can assume the form of an incorporeal ball of light at will. This transformation counts as a standard action. In this form, the coure can be harmed only by other incorporeal creatures, +1 or better magic weapons, spells, spell-like abilities and supernatural abilities. In this form, the coure has a 50% chance to ignore any damage from a corporeal source, except for force effects or attacks made with ghost touch weapons. A coure in this form can pass through solid objects, but not force effects, at will. While incorporeal, its attacks ignore natural armor, armor and shields, but deflection bonuses and force effects work normally against them. In this form, a courre always moves silently and cannot be heard with listen checks if it doesn't wish to be. While incorporeal, the courre sheds light if it wishes, providing illumination with any radius it wishes up to 30 feet. Changing the amount of light it sheds is a free action that the coure can perform once per round.
Magic Circle against Evil (Su)
A magic circle against evil effect always surrounds the courre, as the magic circle against evil spell, caster level 2nd.
Skills: Courres have a +4 racial bonus on hide and move silently checks.
Touch of Healing (Su)
As long as you have a conjuration (healing) spell of 2nd level or higher available to cast, you can spend a standard action to touch a target creature and heal 3 points of damage per level of the highest-level conjuration (healing) spell you have available to cast. You can use this ability only on a target that has been reduced to one-half or fewer of its total hit points. The effect ends once you've healed the subject up to half its normal maximum hit points. This ability has no effect on creatures that can't be healed by cure spells. As a secondary benefit, you gain a +1 competence bonus to your caster level when casting conjuration (healing) spells.
Yulia, pre-epic. At this point she's an insanely good healer - dedicating her spell selection to healing makes her close to how an video game RPG healer works. She's not all that optimized, I avoided another PrC and stuck to pure favored soul. Despite that the usefulness of high level magic is obvious.
To get to this point the party would have to be in low epic. This isn't a contingency I was planning on, though I suppose anything is possible. Her HP has risen thanks to a +6 con booster, but her HP is relatively worse for the frame she's fighting in. Being splattered is a distinct concern for her, so some caution with how she fights is absolutely essential. Her saves are slightly shaky for the level, though superior resistance largely mitigates this problem.
She's not quite god-mode for the party, though she can get them out of any problem short of death+trap the soul shenanigans. At this level those tactics are entirely valid.
Yulia, courre favored soul 13/combat medic 5
Tiny Outsider (Good, Chaotic, Eladrin)
Hit dice: 15d8+30+5d6+10+20 (146 HP)
Initiative: +7
Speed: 20ft, fly 60ft (perfect)
Armor Class: 29 (+2 size, +5 dex, +4 natural, +7 armor, +1 dodge) (+2 deflection vs evil)
Base attack/Grapple: +13/+3
Attack: Longbow+27 (1d4+4+1d6+1d4)
Full Attack: Longbow+27/+22/+17 (1d4+4+1d6+1d4)
Space/Reach: 2 1/2ft/0ft
Special Attacks: Spell-like abilities, spells.
Special Qualities: Alternate form, eladrin subtype, immunity to electricity and petrification, magic circle against evil, resistance to sonic, fire, acid and cold 10, tongues, healing kicker(DC 24 sanctuary, +5 competence to reflex, maximized aid), defensive casting+5, field healer, evasion, spontaneous heal.
Saves: Fort+16, Ref+23, Will+13 (+4 vs poison)
Abilities: Str 6, Dex 24, Con 18, Int 12, Wis 10, Cha 25
Skills: Concentration+19, Diplomacy+14, Escape Artist+17, Heal+10, Hide+34, Knowledge(Religion)+21, Knowledge(The Planes)+21, Listen+5, Move Silently+34, Sense Motive+5, Spot+5, Survival+0 (+2 on other planes), Use Rope+7(+9 bindings).
Feats: Dodge(1), Augment Healing(3), Weapon Focus(Longbow)(FS3), Touch of Healing(6), Combat Casting(9), Healer's Luck(12), Mobility(CM4), Toughness(15), Quicken Spell-Like Ability(Magic Missile)(18), Weapon Specialization(Longbow)(FS12)
Gear: Tiny longbow+4, shocking and screaming; wooden holy symbol, mithral breastplate+5, belt of constitution+6 and charisma+6.
Alignment: Chaotic Good.
Spells:
Yulia casts as a 18th level favored soul. (19th level for conjuration(healing) spells.)
Spell charges:
6/8/8/7/7/7/7/6/5/3
Spells known:
0: Create Water, Cure Minor Wounds, Detect Poison, Guidance, Light, Mending, Purify Food and Drink, Resistance, Virtue.
1: Bless, Cure Light Wounds, Lesser Vigor, Obscuring Mist, Ray of Hope, Resurgence.
2: Close Wounds, Cure Moderate Wounds, Delay Poison, Elation, Lesser Restoration, Remove Paralysis.
3: Cure Serious Wounds, Heart's Ease, Remove Blindness/Deafness, Remove Curse, Remove Disease, Remove Nausea.
4: Cure Critical Wounds, Death Ward, Freedom of Movement, Neutralize Poison, Panacea, Restoration.
5: Break Enchantment, Chaav's Laugh, Greater Vigor, Mass Cure Light Wounds, Raise Dead, Summon Bralani Eladrin.
6: Celestial Blood, Greater Dispel Magic, Heal, Mass Cure Moderate Wounds, Superior Resistance, Vigorous Circle.
7: Mass Cure Serious Wounds, Greater Restoration, Mass Restoration, Regenerate, Resurrection.
8: Cloak of Chaos, Holy Aura, Mass Cure Critical Wounds, Mass Death Ward.
9: Mass Heal, Miracle, True Resurrection.
Spell-like abilities: At will-Dancing lights, detect evil, detect magic, faerie fire; 3/day-Magic missile, sleep. 1/day-haste. Caster level 18th. The save DCs are charisma based.
Alternate Form (Su)
A courre can assume the form of an incorporeal ball of light at will. This transformation counts as a standard action. In this form, the coure can be harmed only by other incorporeal creatures, +1 or better magic weapons, spells, spell-like abilities and supernatural abilities. In this form, the coure has a 50% chance to ignore any damage from a corporeal source, except for force effects or attacks made with ghost touch weapons. A coure in this form can pass through solid objects, but not force effects, at will. While incorporeal, its attacks ignore natural armor, armor and shields, but deflection bonuses and force effects work normally against them. In this form, a courre always moves silently and cannot be heard with listen checks if it doesn't wish to be. While incorporeal, the courre sheds light if it wishes, providing illumination with any radius it wishes up to 30 feet. Changing the amount of light it sheds is a free action that the coure can perform once per round.
Magic Circle against Evil (Su)
A magic circle against evil effect always surrounds the courre, as the magic circle against evil spell, caster level 2nd.
Skills: Courres have a +4 racial bonus on hide and move silently checks.
Touch of Healing (Su)
As long as you have a conjuration (healing) spell of 2nd level or higher available to cast, you can spend a standard action to touch a target creature and heal 3 points of damage per level of the highest-level conjuration (healing) spell you have available to cast. You can use this ability only on a target that has been reduced to one-half or fewer of its total hit points. The effect ends once you've healed the subject up to half its normal maximum hit points. This ability has no effect on creatures that can't be healed by cure spells. As a secondary benefit, you gain a +1 competence bonus to your caster level when casting conjuration (healing) spells.
Sidebar: The rest of the party at higher levels:
Nikkolai: Casting, casting, casting. A high level sorc will do okay enough. May have finally grabbed a PrC, maybe not. I figure he'd be slinging meteor swarms around and the like. Pyro, deals lots of fire damage, good HP for a wizard type.
Adail: Probably finish sacred fist and continue cleric. The combo of spellcasting and decent monk abilities works well for him. If he makes it into epic he'd want to pick up epic sacred fist, I'd imagine. Doesn't change much beyond having lots of magic to make his melee even deadlier. His AC slows down eventually, though magic buffing keeps it from falling lax.
Kamvakua: Finish Champion of Gwyn, go back to barb, hit epic champion of Gywn come 21. Sounds about right, his build don't change significantly by then. If anything it tapers off a little bit, due to his spells finishing up and monsters finally catching up with his trip modifiers. Probably ends up with a huge number of hit points, most of which are lost at an alarming rate. Probably runs Yulia out of diamonds more often than she'd like to think about.
Knight: Uuuuuuuuuuuh. Could pick up a couple of classes/PrCs. Knight, what were you going to aim for later on? She's harder to pin down since the deck could change her power scope radically. If she ever gained the full power of the deck for herself, she'd be akin to a demigod/demipower. Unless we're well into epic that means character retirement. I don't see her making that choice, so...mmm. Dunno. Hadn't decided on the endgame mechanics of the deck.
Mari: OH SHIT IT'S A GIANT BEARDRAGON SNEAK ATTACK MACHINE!!!!!
That says it all, doesn't it?
I would have tried to talk you into a Musteval Paragon class at some point, but yeah Adail would never really deviate from the Divine Casting/Punchy line. May have gone for more Monk over Cleric, largely for the BAB and because it fits his style better.
Quote from: Gatewalker on November 29, 2010, 02:06:57 AM
I would have tried to talk you into a Musteval Paragon class at some point, but yeah Adail would never really deviate from the Divine Casting/Punchy line. May have gone for more Monk over Cleric, largely for the BAB and because it fits his style better.
Oh yeah, I remember that idea. If you did I would've had it be part of his join the Companions goal. After all, if he hasn't mastered being a paragon of mustevals, how can he be the exemplar of them?
I was going to just do whatever I felt like each level, and if I grew dissatisfied I would've asked to rebuild. Didn't really have a long-term plan...
That explains you waffling between a few various PrC options and class choices.
Here's something I wrote up that might seem cool. I don't know, it's not like I want you to use it in a game or anything, anonymous! I just thought it should be posted somewhere, that's all!
Balance - Vest of Duplicitous Alignment (can be used to appear as any alignment for 24 hours; the wearer must make a will save; failure means she must commit one deed that is clearly in accord with the new alignment, and must take all means to do so. May choose one of Holy Aura, Unholy Aura, Cloak of Chaos or Cloak of Law to take effect while active; must coincide with new alignment)
Comet - Young Adult Red Dragon; willing and able to serve as a mount. Can challenge an opponent as a swift action once per day; if the opponent accepts, he must fight Comet single-handedly. If he wins, he gains a level. If a third party tries to interfere, they must pass a save, or be stunned for 1d4 rounds and take 20d6 damage. Comet fights to the death.
Donjon - Shackles of Submission; wearer is compelled to act as the prisoner of the one who shackled them, and cannot work against them or take action in any way without explicit orders.
Eurayle - +5 Heavy Steel Shield of the Medusa (any who can see the shield suffer a -1 penalty to all saves)
The Fates - Ring of Rewinding (1/day, go back in time one round within a 100ft radius; all within retain their memories and anyone who has departed the radius is not effected, but everything else is)
Flames - Malleable Figurine (when used, summons a 20 HD creature of an opposed alignment to a target; it immediately attacks)
Fool - Boots of the Reckless (When in battle against a foe of greater HD, these boots grant the wearer +10ft base speed, +4 AC, +4 init, and +4 to all saving throws.)
Gem - +4 Adamant Heavy Fortification Full Plate; generates a random gemstone each day.
Idiot - Amulet of the Empty Mind (as an immediate action, casts Mind Blank with a duration of 5 hours; intelligence set to 5 for the duration)
Jester - Jester's Cap (as a standard action, can be commanded to fly to the head of a target within 100 feet. Reflex save avoids; otherwise, they are subject to an Irresistable Dance effect.)
Key - +1 Shifting, Greater Wild Longsword (change weapon to any other weapon made of any material; each day, randomly determine +6 worth of special abilities and bonuses. The wearer never suffers negative levels for weapons of the wrong alignment.)
Moon - Ring of Wishes; a full month spent under the same lunar cycle replenishes one wish.
Rogue - Bracers of the Betrayer (when in battle against a foe who the wearer has betrayed within the last 24 hours, grants +4 to all attack rolls, +4 to the DCs of all relevant abilities, and +4 to all damaging effects.)
Ruin - Gloves of Ruin (Casts Disintegrate on touch; 40d6 damage, but only works on constructs and crafted objects.)
Skull - Cloak of Death's Embrace (Cloak of Displacement; As a standard action, the wearer may gain or lose the Undead type.)
Star - Circlet of Aspiration (May divide 8 points of enhancement bonus between all statistics; decided when worn)
Sun - Shield of Inspiration; +5 Heavy Steel Shield; nearby allies gain +4 con and the effects of a Good Hope spell)
Talons - Rod of Cancellation; may also cast Greater Dispel 1/day, at CL 20.
Throne - Instant Fortress; when used, all within one mile must pass a will save or view the user as their ruler, and as such will follow her commands.
Vizier - Crystal Ball. The Vizier provides additional information on subjects viewed through it, including name, age, alignment, and current mood. Each visible subject gets a will save against this effect, though they don't know they got one unless they have some detect magic going.
The Void - Soulgem; casts trap the soul on any who touch it unless they make a will save.
Coooooooool.
Last business:
1. Last call for any questions, posts or any other inquiries.
2. Drac, could you finish up the stats topic so we have a final, definitive one for the entire game?
Once this is done I'll ask Drac to move it to old games. If you have anything else to say or do here, do it now or forever hold your peace.
(Please don't do this until I ask, Drac.)
Quote from: Anastasia on November 29, 2010, 02:02:20 AM
Sidebar: The rest of the party at higher levels:
Nikkolai: Casting, casting, casting. A high level sorc will do okay enough. May have finally grabbed a PrC, maybe not. I figure he'd be slinging meteor swarms around and the like. Pyro, deals lots of fire damage, good HP for a wizard type.
Adail: Probably finish sacred fist and continue cleric. The combo of spellcasting and decent monk abilities works well for him. If he makes it into epic he'd want to pick up epic sacred fist, I'd imagine. Doesn't change much beyond having lots of magic to make his melee even deadlier. His AC slows down eventually, though magic buffing keeps it from falling lax.
Kamvakua: Finish Champion of Gwyn, go back to barb, hit epic champion of Gywn come 21. Sounds about right, his build don't change significantly by then. If anything it tapers off a little bit, due to his spells finishing up and monsters finally catching up with his trip modifiers. Probably ends up with a huge number of hit points, most of which are lost at an alarming rate. Probably runs Yulia out of diamonds more often than she'd like to think about.
Knight: Uuuuuuuuuuuh. Could pick up a couple of classes/PrCs. Knight, what were you going to aim for later on? She's harder to pin down since the deck could change her power scope radically. If she ever gained the full power of the deck for herself, she'd be akin to a demigod/demipower. Unless we're well into epic that means character retirement. I don't see her making that choice, so...mmm. Dunno. Hadn't decided on the endgame mechanics of the deck.
Mari: OH SHIT IT'S A GIANT BEARDRAGON SNEAK ATTACK MACHINE!!!!!
That says it all, doesn't it?
Kam was actually sitting around his best levels during the last couple arcs of the game with hitting the very cool abilities that sat in the middle of the warrior/barbarian/CoG builds. Post next level he'd start tapering off for pretty much the whole route down to twenty where his best gains were behind him and he was simply getting small bonuses each level for a while, with it totally collapsing if he actually got to level 18 with moving into crummy starter level barbarian fare, before moving into epic where it'd likely expand again.
Adail would eventually start having the problem that moving AC up is much more difficult than moving offense up.
mrgh. Anyhow, I'll do the stats eventually, but I'm pretty much at work perpetually until the fifteenth.
Fair enough. Do the best you can, work sucks. Thanks!
Drac's nearly got the stat topic finished. Once it is I'll do some final wrapup then I'll get this old gamed.
It's almost the 15th, posting a reminder for Drac.
That's right! I still have something to do before it's time to go! Do it, Kam!
It's over.
The children are all put to bed, the PCs are asleep within our minds. Will they ever stir again?
I was going to do some big stat analysis for Planar. That didn't last, the spark left me while waiting for the final stat topic update. Thanks again for doing it, Kam. Sorry I didn't end up doing anything with it, but I would've wanted you to finish the stat topic anyway.
So, one more for the road: HEY LISTEN! So hey, I had fun traveling with all of you! There's a lot more roads out there, let's all meet again some day! It probably won't happen, but isn't it a nice dream? Isn't it? Someone in the special realm of #elysium wondered what happens to old RP characters once they aren't used anymore. I like to think they dream of the next session in happiness, no matter if it's ever going to come. Dreaming, waiting, influencing new characters as they wait. I think I'm going to curl up here and take a long sleep. It's time to dream.
It's better than imagining us taking the character sheets, balling them up and tossing them in the trash bin. Isn't it?
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Go ahead and old games this now, Drac.