Here we go.
http://www.soulriders.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=100181
That topic is for the finished product, this is for the various spell discussions.
First up us Cor's first entry, Twenty Questions:
Twenty Questions
Enchantment(Charm) [Language-Dependant, Mind-Affecting]
Level: Sor/Wiz 2
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action.
Range: Close (25 ft + 5 ft/2 levels.)
Target: One humanoid creature
Duration: Concentration, up to one minute/level.
Saving Throw: Will partial; see text
Spell Resistance: Yes.
Your eyes lock with your target's, flashing with a hidden light only it can see. You stare, your gaze hypnotic, and its mental barriers come crashing down in response, tongue spilling forth even the darkest of secrets.
You enchant the target creature, compelling them to answer questions as you dictate. To do so, you must succeed with a ranged touch attack. The target may elect to make a will save if the attack is successful; see below.
Once the enchantment is in place, you may ask the target up to one question per caster level. The question will be answered to the best of its ability and knowledge. If the aforementioned will save was passed, the target is only compelled to answer yes or no questions.
A diplomacy check is needed if you wish for your target to perceive the questions in the most favorable way, dismissing their importance shortly afterwards. If the target is directly threatened by the caster or his allies, he gains a +5 bonus on his will save.
Eb's reply, via the magic of QUOTE AND PASTE:
Quote from: EbirisTwenty Questions seems overpowered to me. On one hand, it fills a gap between Hypnotism (level 1) and Suggestion (level 3), so reason suggests it fits at level 2, right?
Except that even if the target passes their will save, they're still compelled to answer your questions, just in a more limited fashion. That seems pretty brutal. Adding in the touch attack as a mitigating factor doesn't feel right (a quick look over the spell filter on the SRD shows not a single enchantment spell that resolves as a ranged touch attack) and I can see this spell being used a lot against restrained targets for whom rolling to hit isn't an issue.
Also, how does this modify the target's behaviour? If we're fighting Irenes and he gets hit with this spell in round one, is he going to honestly answer every question yelled at him even while he's fireballing us to death and dodging lightning bolts? It just feels very weird.
My thoughts?
Mmm. I'm still not entirely sold on the entire ranged touch part. I see what you're trying to do with it, but on thinking and reading about it, most touch attacks deilver a palpable effect or attack. Say a curse, draining, fiery pain, whatever. Charms and enchantments usually don't bother.
About balance? I was having difficulty with the balance here since there are relatively few spells that have anything like this affect at these levels. It's an undeveloped part of the system, so with little support, I'm looking for info on this. So with what Eb said, hm.
Lemme ask you this a few questions on reading that and thinking it over.
How would you play the spell if cast in combat, say? How do you imagine it working out?
If I told you to change the ranged attack attribute, which I'm considering, how would you alter the spell to compensate?
If I wanted to make the will save purely pass/fail resist the spell entirely(As in, say, charm person), how would that affect the spell in your mind? Would you want to try revising other portions of it?
Eb stirred up some of what I think I was reaching for. The spell's good, but it's also a bit mix/maxed out. The ranged touch still makes me blink, for example, and I'm not sure the yes/no part on the will save is executed well. I like the concept, but what he said supported some of my doubts.
Dune, I want a spell to replace Str with Int (well, technically, with the relevant casting ability, since bards or whatever could also potentially want it) for melee weapons for to hit/damage purposes. Interested in duration and spell level; basically, how you would price it.
EDIT: Nevermind, going to say something different in the next post after some review.
After talking to you I realized you thought the transformation spell was the inspiration. It wasn't, really, but glancing at nightstalker's transformation I guess I'd be interested in a spell that gave weapon finesse for x rounds/level, if one were available.
Quote from: CorwinAfter talking to you I realized you thought the transformation spell was the inspiration. It wasn't, really, but glancing at nightstalker's transformation I guess I'd be interested in a spell that gave weapon finesse for x rounds/level, if one were available.
Isn't there a spell that gives you a fighter bonus feat in the spell compendium? I distinctly recall that being mentioned; do you remember what spell it is? That's rather relevant here.
As for the first request? 3rd-4th pending on something. I have a few reservations about this, but it's partly just because it fits really well to you. Kinda like wraithestrike all over again. I'd want to see a writeup of the spell before I commit to anything.
Heroics, page 113, the plot requirement is so stupid.... (lvl2 sorc/wiz spell, casting time: standard action, duration: 10min/level)
Quote from: CorwinHeroics, page 113, the plot requirement is so stupid.... (lvl2 sorc/wiz spell, casting time: standard action, duration: 10min/level)
Mmm.
Okay, that makes sense. The material component simply doesn't work in this game due to the relative power level involved and I have some reservations about the spell in any event. It seems like a very custom spell with a retarded component and aim; being able to slap on feats at will makes me put my head through the table. It's trying to do something very nice by tacking on a difficult to impossible material component.
It does work as a fine baseline here, however.
A variant targeted on one particular feat would be fine by that. Second level works for it tentatively.The material component should be of some value, at least, since it's clearly meant to make it not easy to spam.
Or one buys a dagger, cashes in on a favor from Salman/elves and asks for their best fighter to use it to slay an evil rat, then give me the dagger back. Stupid~
Quote from: CorwinOr one buys a dagger, cashes in on a favor from Salman/elves and asks for their best fighter to use it to slay an evil rat, then give me the dagger back. Stupid~
Basically. Anyhow, while I do have some reservations, you can try and make a spell like that. I'll make a ruling when I see a full spell to rule on and work from there.
I'd actually prefer to receive the limitations on any such spells first, and have you clearly define them. I'll just add the flavor later, and it'll fit, too.
So, after talking to you some more, I decided to summarize what we went over.
1) The spell gives +spellcasting ability modifier to both attack and damage. The weapon in question must one one that can be used with weapon finesse. You could use two weapons while under the spell, too, as long as each qualifies under the above rule. The spell is of the second level. The duration on it is either x rounds, where x is the Caster Level, with the activation being a standard action, or one round, with the activation being a swift action.
Would this be an accurate summary, Dune?
I was also interested in another possibility, which is detailed below:
2) A spell that gives weapon finesse to the caster. It will have a non-trivial material component (in value/gp) and be of second level. Activation time, standard action.
I'd propose a potion of Cat's Grace as a component, which should satisfy your desires that this is not spammed, but in turn ask that the duration is extended the way Heroics is, for 10min/level.
Thoughts? Discussion? Approval? Alternate versions?
Quote from: CorwinSo, after talking to you some more, I decided to summarize what we went over.
1) The spell gives +spellcasting ability modifier to both attack and damage. The weapon in question must one one that can be used with weapon finesse. You could use two weapons while under the spell, too, as long as each qualifies under the above rule. The spell is of the second level. The duration on it is either x rounds, where x is the Caster Level, with the activation being a standard action, or one round, with the activation being a swift action.
Would this be an accurate summary, Dune?
That's fine. I prefer the swift action version, personally.
QuoteI was also interested in another possibility, which is detailed below:
2) A spell that gives weapon finesse to the caster. It will have a non-trivial material component (in value/gp) and be of second level. Activation time, standard action.
I'd propose a potion of Cat's Grace as a component, which should satisfy your desires that this is not spammed, but in turn ask that the duration is extended the way Heroics is, for 10min/level.
Thoughts? Discussion? Approval? Alternate versions?
Basically a somewhat less retarded Heroism?
I suppose, on both. Anyway, want me to write it up with flowery desc, or to debate the spells some more?
I'm going to elaborate here, since on rereading my replies are pretty spaced out. Duuuuude!
Re: Swift action spell.
This is fine and works for me as I said. I have some slight reservations about swapping stats around for one another. This is more the province of feats and odds and ends, but I'm not entirely opposed to it, and third and balance aren't very well connected. I also make good run on sentences. Anyways, that's fine there and I have no objections. Write that spell up away.
Re: Heroism 2.0.
I covered why Heroism fails pretty well so I'll get to the meat of this reply.
I admit that I want to preface this with that I don't want to see a ton of 'x feat is mimicked for x amount of time with x spell' spells. It's another way to cheapen down meleers vs spellcasters and this is something I didn't really articulate in my less than talkative state the last few days.
That concern noted you can go ahead and develop the spell. If this turns out to be completely broken we'll do something then. I don't think it will in the sense of 'OHMYGODSEIRAISINVINCIBLE!' sense. Just more of a '...oh wait, magic made fighting training less valuable again? Wowzers!' sort of way....but I digress. Anyway, go for it.
Custom spell I'd like (even though I can't cast 3rd level spells yet, something for the future)
Greater Mighty Slash
School: Transmutation
Level: Sorcerer/Wizard 3
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: One slashing melee weapon
Duration: 1 hour/level
Saving Throw: None (object)
Spell Resistance: None (object)
Greater Mighty Slash increases the damage of a slashing melee weapon by one size category per four levels, up to a maximum of five categories or an effective size of Colossal, without increasing the size or weight of the weapon. Refer to http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm#weaponSize (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm#weaponSize) to determine the weapon's adjusted damage.
This spell is entirely a direct copy of Greater Mighty Whallop from Races of the Dragon (page 115), except that spell only works for bludgeoning weapons.
Mmm. Let me think about this a little while, Eb. I have a mediocre kneejerk to it, as the buff's duration ensures it's basically one cast per adventure for rising damage. I'll talk to you about it in PM later.
Going to post some stuff I mentioned to Dune ages ago but never got around to putting down. Would appreciate insight, since I'm not quite sure about the levels. Also, my names lack imagination, so help there is welcome.
1) Greater Alter Self.
As Alter Self, except the following line:
"You assume the form of a creature of the same type as your normal form."
is replaced with:
"You assume the form of a creature of the same type as your normal form or of a humanoid creature."
I'd place it at lvl3 since the 5HD remains and your ability scores are unchanged. Basically, I want the spell for dragons to be able to really become humans/elves/sea elves, rather than just look like them. It'd naturally work for any of the creatures listed in the Polymorph spell (aberration, animal, dragon, fey, giant, humanoid, magical beast, monstrous humanoid, ooze, plant, or vermin) which we don't have.
I'd also like a clarification as to whether a human could use Alter Self in the fashion of Reduce/Enlarge Self. If that's not how AS is supposed to work, I'd be interested in 'Enlarge Creature' and 'Reduce Creature' versions of Reduce and Enlarge Self where "Target: One humanoid creature" is replaced with "Target: You". Dunno about the level there, but also a lvl3 spell?
2) Synergetic Dragon Breath.
Similar to Dragon Breath (Spell Compendium p73, a lvl4 spell), except that it boosts your preexisting breath weapon rather than grants you one. The breath type you use must be the same as the one you already possess. While the spell is in effect, you combine the damage from the breath weapon you possess and the breath weapon boost you gain from the spell. The save DC used would be the best of what the spell offers and what your natural breath weapon gives. A single level boost to lvl5 seems okay for me, but again, I don't know.
I actually think a Swift variation on this spell might be more fun, with the duration suitably changing to 1 round. Swift 1-round only spells seem to be a level below the spells with normal durations and standard action castings that they emulate, so I'd place it a level below the above spell. If it's too good or something, then lvl6/lvl5 respectively could work?
3) A spell that sets water on fire.
I'm not really sure how it would work, but I think it would be funny. Suggestions are welcome. Maybe such a spell exists and I haven't seen it. Please help! It would be pretty fun when someone uses water to put out a Shroud of Flame and you just make the water flammable.
1) Sketch up a version of that spell so I can see what you envision exactly? Also, to quote from Alter Self:
The new form must be within one size category of your normal size.
So it can change your size up to one step in either direction from your base size.
2) I don't have any objection to the basics of this spell. Draw it up and see how it looks? Do bear in mind that you're playing with fire here, both literally and figuratively. Besides the metabreath feats, there's not much out there to boost up breath weapon damage. There's a very good reason for it, as breath is one of the more deadly forms of attack. Now, I'm not trying to discourage you, but I am pointing out that there's a good reason that these weren't created.
3) No idea offhand. You'd need to run with it and work something out. Transmutation, changes water into an oil like substance?
CP'd from the SRD and altered where suitable:
Greater Alter Self
Transmutation
Level: Sor/Wiz 3?
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 10 min./level (D)
You assume the form of a creature of the same type as your normal form or of a humanoid creature. The new form must be within one size category of your normal size. The maximum HD of an assumed form is equal to your caster level, to a maximum of 5 HD at 5th level. You can change into a member of your own kind or even into yourself.
You retain your own ability scores. Your class and level, hit points, alignment, base attack bonus, and base save bonuses all remain the same. You retain all supernatural and spell-like special attacks and qualities of your normal form, except for those requiring a body part that the new form does not have (such as a mouth for a breath weapon or eyes for a gaze attack).
You keep all extraordinary special attacks and qualities derived from class levels, but you lose any from your normal form that are not derived from class levels.
If the new form is capable of speech, you can communicate normally. You retain any spellcasting ability you had in your original form, but the new form must be able to speak intelligibly (that is, speak a language) to use verbal components and must have limbs capable of fine manipulation to use somatic or material components.
You acquire the physical qualities of the new form while retaining your own mind. Physical qualities include natural size, mundane movement capabilities (such as burrowing, climbing, walking, swimming, and flight with wings, to a maximum speed of 120 feet for flying or 60 feet for nonflying movement), natural armor bonus, natural weapons (such as claws, bite, and so on), racial skill bonuses, racial bonus feats, and any gross physical qualities (presence or absence of wings, number of extremities, and so forth). A body with extra limbs does not allow you to make more attacks (or more advantageous two-weapon attacks) than normal.
You do not gain any extraordinary special attacks or special qualities not noted above under physical qualities, such as darkvision, low-light vision, blindsense, blindsight, fast healing, regeneration, scent, and so forth.
You do not gain any supernatural special attacks, special qualities, or spell-like abilities of the new form. Your creature type and subtype (if any) remain the same regardless of your new form. You cannot take the form of any creature with a template, even if that template doesn't change the creature type or subtype.
You can freely designate the new form's minor physical qualities (such as hair color, hair texture, and skin color) within the normal ranges for a creature of that kind. The new form's significant physical qualities (such as height, weight, and gender) are also under your control, but they must fall within the norms for the new form's kind. You are effectively disguised as an average member of the new form's race. If you use this spell to create a disguise, you get a +10 bonus on your Disguise check.
When the change occurs, your equipment, if any, either remains worn or held by the new form (if it is capable of wearing or holding the item), or melds into the new form and becomes nonfunctional. When you revert to your true form, any objects previously melded into the new form reappear in the same location on your body they previously occupied and are once again functional. Any new items you wore in the assumed form and can't wear in your normal form fall off and land at your feet; any that you could wear in either form or carry in a body part common to both forms at the time of reversion are still held in the same way. Any part of the body or piece of equipment that is separated from the whole reverts to its true form.
I'll have to think about 2 and 3.
What about a swift version of the regular Dragon Breath (Spell Compendium p73, a lvl4 spell)? Basically, it would be swift rather than standard, and last only a single round instead of CL rounds.
Following talking to you, I'll research Greater Alter Self [lvl3] and Swift, 1-round duration Dragon Breath [lvl4]. Let me know when you redo the prices for research, if at all, and I'll pay the costs.
Demedais' Unerring Fall
Transmutation
Level: Clr 6
Components: V, DF
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Self; discharge range Long (400 ft. + 40 ft./level)
Area: Self or one target
Duration: 1 min./level or until discharged
Saving Throw: None; see text
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless); no
This spell imbues the paladin or cleric in question to fall with a divine splendor unlike that which has been previously experienced. This spell has two functions.
1) At will, so long as the spell is still active, the caster may fall at a rate of up to sixty feet per round and will take no damage when landing. In addition, the caster may angle his fall up to 45 degrees away from the direction gravity pulls him in, so long as the spell is in effect.
2) The caster may, instead and while falling, choose to discharge this and choose one target within sight and range. (this target knows he has been chosen as the target of this spell on a Wisdom check, and otherwise just has a bad feeling). The caster then accelerates to maximum falling speed instantly and effectively homes in on the target. The target cannot physically move out of range of this, but can escape via teleportation spells or finding a stable enough shelter to stop the caster's fall. Displacement, blink and ethereal opponents have the standard miss chance.
If the caster lands on the target, the target takes damage as if a falling object of greater than 200 lb has landed on him, based on the distance the caster fell, and a cap of 30d6 damage. The caster takes half the normal damage from falling from a great height (10d6).
(Yes, this is partially a joke, especially since I can't cast this high for a while longer. Still, may it be an amusement once you read it.)