The past fifty years have been increasingly lawless ones for the Free Kingdoms. Denied by terms of their surrender to the Empire Under Heaven to keep any standing troops, they can only beg for the Imperial hobgoblin armies to help them against the brigands and the Aberrations that now swarm forth from the Waste. But the creation of the Waste and the fall of Maggydd in the Wasting War have left the only path to the Empire the treacherous pass through Gwynoc's Cairn, and increasingly the Emperor Under Heaven has instructed his armies to hold fast within their forts.
Into this gap come the brokers. Men of ambition and connection, the Empire Under Heaven lets the brokers act as middlemen between authorized bands of mercenaries and those who need men-at-arms. Warriors join these Free Companies for many reasons. Many only for the elusive promise of money, others because their home is closed to them, and some, perhaps, because they dream of a time when the name of the Free Kingdoms will be more than a joke in poor taste....
Setting details can be found here (http://www.rpgdl.com/wiki/index.php?title=Free_Kingdoms).
I'm looking for players (3-4) for a small D&D 3.5 campaign based in the above setting. The game would start at 4th level, stats by 4d6-drop-one or point buy, your choice. PCs will be members of a small Free Company, and you're encouraged to come up with a shared background/company name/whatever. Don't worry too much about party composition; your broker will take care of you.
The game would be forum-based, with occasional IRC sessions if appropriate. The game will be core rules only (PHB, DMB, MM) unless specifically cleared by me (as those are the only books I have). The only house rule I am proposing at the moment (beyond setting changes) is that cross-class skills no longer cost 2 skill points per rank (though the cap remains as is).
Now, my attempt to promptly talk people out of joining! I have no experience DMing (or even playing) anything past AD&D 2nd Ed. I will try to keep to at least a one-a-day posting schedule, but the nature of my jobs means there will be a number of weeks and weekends when I will not be available (known in advance). I am making the setting up as I go along, and players will probably need to point out insanities and inconsistencies on a regular basis.
Ooooh, I remember you talking about this in #soulibrary. I might be interested depending on a couple of things. How often would you peg the IRC sessions at and at what times/days? Secondly, what flavor are you aiming for with the Free Kingdoms and the Empire Under Heaven. The former sounds like typical fantasy flare, but the latter has a distinct Eastern taste to it.
EDIT - I can hook you up with more books if you like. Keeping it to core only is a good idea for a new GM, since this cuts down on a lot of the cheese. Just sayin', in case you want to expand your horizons.
We obey our new hobgoblin overlords.
We also demand a space at the table. :)
IRC sessions being rare is a favorable condition, as outside of weekends I don't know how often our timezones match nicely. =)
EDIT: I favor point buy, but hey, randomness is fun too. And agreed with Dune on his edit. Core doesn't instantly keep everything cool but it does keep a much smaller amount of rubbish to pay attention to.
Quote from: Anastasia on January 13, 2008, 01:06:41 AM
Ooooh, I remember you talking about this in #soulibrary. I might be interested depending on a couple of things. How often would you peg the IRC sessions at and at what times/days?
Hopefully, we'll never have an IRC session. My goal is to do it entirely forum-based, but I know from experience that some scenes can completely stall a forum-based game. I'm going to do my best to avoid that scenario, but I also want to leave open the possibility of short IRC sessions to get us over such humps.
If we need an IRC session, we'll schedule it at that time and for when it's convenient for all the players.
Quote
Secondly, what flavor are you aiming for with the Free Kingdoms and the Empire Under Heaven. The former sounds like typical fantasy flare, but the latter has a distinct Eastern taste to it.
The Empire is based an expansionist version of Imperial China, as you guessed -- one where promotion examination didn't devolve to "how well do you know Confucious" and "loyalty to the Emperor" is synonymous with "expand the borders." The Free Kingdoms is a mess of middle-age European imitations, which makes it pretty typical fantasy. The Free Kingdoms themselves (the mostly human nations of Brindia, Jovia, and Maredia) are loosely based on the early Renaissance city-states of Italy. The halflings are a mixed Arabic/Jewish archetype, with Arabic look, dress, garb, etc but borrowing the Jewish nation-within-a-nation role. Dwarves are the same but dying and sad and sing a lot so I put 'em somewhere where it rains a lot and called them Welsh. The gnomes are medieval Scandanavian in inspiration. Elves are a combination of Gaelic druids, your standard wood elves, and Larry Niven's puppeteers.
The overall region as a whole is based, again, on Renaissance Europe. Trade is the centre of everything, and cultural and scientific/magic development is synonymous with nobility. You have a broad diversity of independent political entities (with each city being more or less independent of each other), all too busy squabbling and eyeing each other distrustfully over minor issues to unite and deal with the larger one.
If you're thinking about it in terms of names: in Maredia names would be more germanic, Spanish in Jovia, and Italian in Brindia. Family names are starting to come into common usage, with all nobles and rich merchant families using them, and the peasantry beginning to acquire the habit now that the Princes can no longer enforce the name laws. Family names created since the Wasting War progressively tend to be in Common (i.e, Smith, Greenfield, Baker, Hightower, etc.) Halfling names are Persian in feel, and they use a matrilineal family name that always begins with "ab" (i.e, if Isa was the son of Maher ab'Hikamy (father) and Shahi ab'Azeri (mother), he would be Isa ab'Azeri). Dwarves use Welsh names and (previously) would have then indicated the portion of Maggydd in which they lived; now they are all "of Trymfyrd." Gnomes use Scandanavian names with the usual patronymic system, or an epithet. Elven names are Gaelic, and they use only one. Elves that end up outside the Deepwood are considered insane and are essentially rejecting elvish culture, and so they fairly often change their names in unpredictable ways.
All this is in flexible, of course. If you want a Russian character, for example, let me know and we'll figure out good backstory.
Just to make this clear, though: characters are to be from the Free Kingdoms only. No hobgoblin or goblin characters. Families from Imperial client races who've fled and found refuge in the Free Kingdoms are probably acceptable, though the only guaranteed "okay" is for kobolds (mostly for the humour value, let's be frank). Characters from Uskila or the Turin Empire are also no-go.
Quote
EDIT - I can hook you up with more books if you like. Keeping it to core only is a good idea for a new GM, since this cuts down on a lot of the cheese. Just sayin', in case you want to expand your horizons.
I definitely would prefer to stick to core, but I'm open to considering other stuff. Half the fun would be in finding a place for in the setting, and I like that sort of stuff. If someone does want a non-core character, then I might take you up on the offer. People should keep in mind, though, that non-core stuff doesn't just have to be approved by me, but all the other players as well. You guys are much more likely to smell cheese than me.
Quote from: Dracos on January 13, 2008, 01:23:09 AM
I favor point buy, but hey, randomness is fun too.
Sorry, I meant "your choice" on a personal level. If people go 4d6, then I trust them to be honest, and if they honestly roll something really out of whack with what you'd get off point buy, then I trust 'em to roll again. And if I don't trust them, then they're not going to be in the game. ;)
Normally I'd be a bit leery of a forum based D&D game working, but the Dungeon Crawling thing in the Terminus Pool seems to be doing alright, so maybe it can work, after all.
Put me down as interested.
QuoteHopefully, we'll never have an IRC session. My goal is to do it entirely forum-based, but I know from experience that some scenes can completely stall a forum-based game. I'm going to do my best to avoid that scenario, but I also want to leave open the possibility of short IRC sessions to get us over such humps.
If we need an IRC session, we'll schedule it at that time and for when it's convenient for all the players.
Okay. Uh, not much more to say here.
QuoteSetting stuff
I admit, I have slight hesitations about the whole Imperial China invading Europe thing. Still, I like the rest of what you did enough to more than offset that. I'm interested in a Brindian character offhand, maybe a cleric. Speaking of, can you elaborate on religions more at some point? You have some on the wiki, but it feels incomplete.
If the Church of St Turin is as catholic inspired as I think, playing an Italian Cleric should be fun. >_>
QuoteI definitely would prefer to stick to core, but I'm open to considering other stuff. Half the fun would be in finding a place for in the setting, and I like that sort of stuff. If someone does want a non-core character, then I might take you up on the offer. People should keep in mind, though, that non-core stuff doesn't just have to be approved by me, but all the other players as well. You guys are much more likely to smell cheese than me.
Cool. As for me? If I play a cleric I'm thinking straight cleric at first, maybe a PrC if something catches my eye. Yeah, Clerics are strong enough as is, so I'm not looking to make them any more smash.
Well, let's see. Using hatbot since he seems to be 4d6 drop one. I can reroll if you want. Seems just slightly above average, with nothing great but everything good. I find 'what's fair' varies, so I'll just toss this up and if I need to reroll I'll reroll. Point Buy varies a bit, so if you want that to be an option, I suggest offering what you're referring to for it ^^.
* Drac-GM reads over books
<Drac-GM> hum, is hatbot, 4d6 drop 1?
<Drac-GM> !rollchar
<Hatbot> [4d6=4, 4, 2, 6] -> 14
<Hatbot> [4d6=3, 6, 3, 1] -> 12
<Hatbot> [4d6=5, 2, 6, 3] -> 14
<Hatbot> [4d6=6, 3, 5, 2] -> 14
<Hatbot> [4d6=6, 4, 4, 6] -> 16
<Hatbot> [4d6=5, 2, 6, 5] -> 16
<Hatbot> Drac-GM: 16, 16, 14, 14, 14, 12
<Ebiris> Nice.
Also, hesitation, but if you're encouraging suggestions, I'll suggest the Skill Trick section of Complete Scoundrel (for sending on request) but mainly because I've never used skill tricks in any game and they interest me as a way of varying things up. :P I still think sticking straight core is probably the best move.
What kind of starting resources might we be looking at? Standard level 4 (5400 gp, pg 135 DMG for ease) or something else? and equally how do you tend to feel about treasure/level advancement?
What's kobold stats? :P I'm either thinking of halfling, kobold, or human roguey. :P Probably an arabic halfling with a smart mouth and a deep pain for a lost homeland. Or something.
We're settingwise career mercenaries? Also any regional things we should try and story in (e.g. is there a place we're kind of around or are we a roaming mercenary band from the getgo)
I'm interested, but it depends on what you're expecting out of posting rate.
I'm pretty happy with a rate like the dungeon crawl, which is generally at least 1-2 posts a day (with some exceptions lately due to Ana and I both coming down with sickness), with the occassional flurry of posts when all of us happen to be on and in the mood.
If that's good enough, then sign me up.
Quote from: Anastasia on January 13, 2008, 03:44:37 PM
admit, I have slight hesitations about the whole Imperial China invading Europe thing.
How so? The Empire Under Heaven is only loosely Chinese. Mostly I'm stealing the idea of a bureaucratic-with-examinations government and the idea of parallel earthly and celestial governments. The trappings are likely to be much more Roman than otherwise. Also, it's probably worth pointing out that both the hobgoblins and the Empire are Lawful Neutral in this setting. The Empire isn't evil (though it does have a certain tendency towards inflexibility and systemic racism that some might find offensive), it simply has a divine mandate to bring law and government to the entire world.
Just to be clear, this setting is not intended to be political allegory of any sort. It started off as a combination of "races always fill the same roles, boring" and "wouldn't there be more storytelling potential in a situation where the PCs are automatically underdogs?" and went from there. I'm stealing real-world culture to save effort. ;)
Quote
Still, I like the rest of what you did enough to more than offset that. I'm interested in a Brindian character offhand, maybe a cleric. Speaking of, can you elaborate on religions more at some point? You have some on the wiki, but it feels incomplete.
If the Church of St Turin is as catholic inspired as I think, playing an Italian Cleric should be fun. >_>
The Church is very Catholic in feel, with a byzantine array of prayers, rituals, and so on and so forth. One fundamental difference is that the Turinists never worship the Creator directly, but only ever the saints. While the religion as a whole is named for St. Turin, he is just first among equals, rather than having any special divine status. He's actually not even one of the most frequently worshipped saints -- his order devotes their time to maintaining the lists of saints and determining the validity of new claims to sainthood. This means the Church has much more diversity than the Catholic Church, being more a collection of 2700 different religions with a shared history, culture, and fundamental principle, rather than a true single Church. Politically, this is why the Church of St. Turin isn't a very powerful force in the Free Kingdoms. In game terms, it gives the players leeway to make up their own saint with his own religion, rituals, etc. The various orders can cover a lot of territory. I don't have much detail on saints and their orders made up at this point, and have been just filling in the details as I need them. I'd actually prefer it if you made up your own saint and order to suit yourself, but if you want me to sit down and make up example saints and orders I can put this on my "sooner rather than later" list.
Worship of the Faceless Lady isn't an organized religion. The Faceless Lady encourages the study of the world, self, and all forms of knowledge as a path to enlightenment. Some people focus on the self, some others work on mastering a single path or craft, still others seek to learn as much about the world as possible. The "holy text" is just a single story: an halfling tribesmen of antiquity looked up at the stars and said, "I wonder what they are?" The Faceless Lady appeared in a vision and promised protection and occasional guidance so long as the halfling continued to seek answers. Of course, the commentaries on the story, recordings of other visitations, and detailed analysis of the Faceless Lady's words and their implications can now fill an entire library. The only explicit commandment the Faceless Lady has ever delivered is to pursue understanding. It's generally held that the purpose of this pursuit is to lead to self-improvement, but there are several major schisms over the final goal of this process: either complete knowledge and understanding of all creation (the Full Way), an abolition of the need for conscious thought (the Empty Way), transcendence (the Starlit Way), or that there is no end to the process at all (the Neverending Way). Then there are scores of theories on the paths to any of these goals, which do not necessarily line up with the differences between goals themselves. The monks, for example, practice a regimen of physical self-discipline in pursuit of the Starlit or Empty Way, while wizards might be working towards any of the Ways but the Empty Way. Clerics of the Faceless Lady (the sharadhin) might be working towards any of the Ways, but they believe that study of the Faceless Lady is a vital component of the task. A long-accepted tenet is that one of the key tools of understanding the Faceless Lady is understanding how ordinary mortals relate to the Faceless Lady and her Commandment, and so sharadhin act as counsellors and arbiters in their community. This is an unofficial role, arising from the respect people give them for their choice of path and their wisdom, and there are no professional sharadhin.
Until the fall of Maggydd, dwarven religion was building, maintaining, protecting, and governing their home, and clerics basically filled the role of municipal government (zoning, construction, planning, etc) -- or, more correctly, the dwarves who filled that role became clerics. For clerics of Trymfyrd this is still true, but clerics of Maggydd are faced with the much more pressing challenge of reclaiming their home. Dwarves aren't religious in the sense that most other races understand it. They're just very passionate about their homes.
The Emperor Over Earth and the Celestial Court is just that -- another level of government over the Empire Under Heaven. The hobgoblins don't seem to worship the Celestial Court, per se: they're just carrying out the Court's orders. There aren't many clerics of the Celestial Court, and it's just another bureaucratic post. This isn't really an issue for anyone in the Free Kingdoms.
Is this the sort of information you were looking for? If you have questions, just let me know and I'll flesh things out more.
Quote from: Dracos
Also, hesitation, but if you're encouraging suggestions, I'll suggest the Skill Trick section of Complete Scoundrel (for sending on request) but mainly because I've never used skill tricks in any game and they interest me as a way of varying things up. :P I still think sticking straight core is probably the best move.
I'm willing to look at it, but if no one else has experience with them I'm hesitant to include them. On the other hand, if it's a mechanic that improves non-combat skills, I'm for it. (I really need to look at Burning Wheel.)
Quote
What kind of starting resources might we be looking at? Standard level 4 (5400 gp, pg 135 DMG for ease) or something else? and equally how do you tend to feel about treasure/level advancement?
Standard level 4 is good, I think. I don't have strong opinions about treasure/level advancement at the moment, other than "it should suit the story being told." If you guys end up being too strong, I'll bump the difficulty of the game up. If you're not strong enough for the story we're running, then I'll bump you up. Again, I don't have any experience with 3.5 directly, so you're going to have to bear with me while I feel this out.
Quote
What's kobold stats? :P I'm either thinking of halfling, kobold, or human roguey. :P Probably an arabic halfling with a smart mouth and a deep pain for a lost homeland. Or something.
I think I was just going to go with the basic MM kobold, but I'll look it over this evening.
Quote
We're settingwise career mercenaries? Also any regional things we should try and story in (e.g. is there a place we're kind of around or are we a roaming mercenary band from the getgo)
I'm flexible here. For my starting plan, all I need is that all the PCs be in Brindisi and members of the same Free Company. Ideally, at least one of you would have been in the Free Company for some time, while others can (if they want) be more recent hires. If you all want to be recent hires, then I can create NPCs for the head of the Company and possibly some veterans, but I imagine we'd all be happier if I can avoid this.
Your stats look fine to me, by the way.
Quote from: Merc
I'm interested, but it depends on what you're expecting out of posting rate.
Dungeon crawl rates. 1-2 per day, more in the (unlikely) chance we're all around at the same time and interested in a posting rush.
At this point, I've got expressions of interest from Drac, Ana, Eb, Merc, and Brian, which is pretty much all I'm willing to take on for players. If anyone else is interested, feel free to post in case someone else drops out, but waiting list only now.
I'm thinking of playing a Kobold Dread Necromancer (I know the class is non-core, but this is probably my last chance at playing a 3rd ed character before 4th ed comes out, and I like the look of the class). I mention it briefly in the 'Soulriders Wizard' post in the Roleplaying Codex, and I can hook you up with the book it comes from (it's easily found on rapidsearch, anyway).
The impression I get from the setting is that certain classes demand certain races, and since this is a sorcerer-a-like I'm not sure if it'd be allowed for anything except a Goblin, so I thought I'd throw this out at the outset.
Quote from: Ebiris on January 14, 2008, 10:27:59 AM
I'm thinking of playing a Kobold Dread Necromancer (I know the class is non-core, but this is probably my last chance at playing a 3rd ed character before 4th ed comes out, and I like the look of the class). I mention it briefly in the 'Soulriders Wizard' post in the Roleplaying Codex, and I can hook you up with the book it comes from (it's easily found on rapidsearch, anyway).
The impression I get from the setting is that certain classes demand certain races, and since this is a sorcerer-a-like I'm not sure if it'd be allowed for anything except a Goblin, so I thought I'd throw this out at the outset.
I'll look at it. Kobolds live near the Waste, which opens up the possibility of a trial-by-fire sorcerer developing. No guarantees, but the concept is intriguing.
EDIT: The Dread Necromancer would make perfect sense for someone corrupted by exposure to the Waste. You could easily go with, say, a kobold family who'd fled and found refuge in Fars Ia prior to the Wasting War, and didn't evacuate when Fars Ia was abandoned. Having said that, I'm a little worry about imbalance. Your description in Soulriders Wizard made it sound like a sorcerer with extra abilities and better hit dice, which seems a little unbalanced. I'll read it over, but is there something obvious I'm missing?
The issue is that it gets more spells known, but from a very restricted list - it's a pure necromancer, that means you can't get any of the usual arcane staples like Fly, Teleport, or even Magic Missile.
I like it since it's super thematic, and the spells it does know are still sufficient to hold its own in most situations. I can link you with a rapidshare of the book when I get home from work in a few hours so you can look over it properly.
There may be one spot left. I TAKES IT!
If I can. o_O
As per tradition, of course. :)
I'm curious to see this, though I'm not sure which character I would play just yet....
Quote
How so? The Empire Under Heaven is only loosely Chinese. Mostly I'm stealing the idea of a bureaucratic-with-examinations government and the idea of parallel earthly and celestial governments. The trappings are likely to be much more Roman than otherwise. Also, it's probably worth pointing out that both the hobgoblins and the Empire are Lawful Neutral in this setting. The Empire isn't evil (though it does have a certain tendency towards inflexibility and systemic racism that some might find offensive), it simply has a divine mandate to bring law and government to the entire world.
Just to be clear, this setting is not intended to be political allegory of any sort. It started off as a combination of "races always fill the same roles, boring" and "wouldn't there be more storytelling potential in a situation where the PCs are automatically underdogs?" and went from there. I'm stealing real-world culture to save effort. ;)
Mmm, it's more of a personal thing. I've never been fond of China in antiquity. But this is a side comment that's turning into something bigger than I meant it, so I don't really want to pursue it.
Quote
The Church is very Catholic in feel, with a byzantine array of prayers, rituals, and so on and so forth. One fundamental difference is that the Turinists never worship the Creator directly, but only ever the saints. While the religion as a whole is named for St. Turin, he is just first among equals, rather than having any special divine status. He's actually not even one of the most frequently worshipped saints -- his order devotes their time to maintaining the lists of saints and determining the validity of new claims to sainthood. This means the Church has much more diversity than the Catholic Church, being more a collection of 2700 different religions with a shared history, culture, and fundamental principle, rather than a true single Church. Politically, this is why the Church of St. Turin isn't a very powerful force in the Free Kingdoms. In game terms, it gives the players leeway to make up their own saint with his own religion, rituals, etc. The various orders can cover a lot of territory. I don't have much detail on saints and their orders made up at this point, and have been just filling in the details as I need them. I'd actually prefer it if you made up your own saint and order to suit yourself, but if you want me to sit down and make up example saints and orders I can put this on my "sooner rather than later" list.
I like that, and besides, the Catholics already worship sa-ack. Sorry, sorry. Bad joke. Anyway, I'll get to the point of this. I like it and I'll work something out with it easily enough. Does this freedom with saints include the ability to make one with the domains I'd like to grab? Other than that, this was exactly what I was looking for, thanks.
Quote from: Ebiris on January 14, 2008, 10:27:59 AM
I'm thinking of playing a Kobold Dread Necromancer (I know the class is non-core, but this is probably my last chance at playing a 3rd ed character before 4th ed comes out, and I like the look of the class). I mention it briefly in the 'Soulriders Wizard' post in the Roleplaying Codex, and I can hook you up with the book it comes from (it's easily found on rapidsearch, anyway).
The impression I get from the setting is that certain classes demand certain races, and since this is a sorcerer-a-like I'm not sure if it'd be allowed for anything except a Goblin, so I thought I'd throw this out at the outset.
I don't want to come off as raining on anyone's parade here, but this does raise a question. What's the status and perception of undead in the game world? If Eb's making a Dread Necromancer and I'm making a cleric, would there be a conflict? Further, what party alignment range are we going for here?
Messing with undead is taboo in most settings, and I'm happy if it is in this one. I'll just have to focus on the 'negative energy kills you' aspects for the most part while making use of undead on the sly, which could be fun to play with.
edit: As for alignment, I'll probably be either Lawful Evil, Lawful Neutral, or True Neutral.
Quote from: Ebiris on January 14, 2008, 03:01:31 PM
Messing with undead is taboo in most settings, and I'm happy if it is in this one. I'll just have to focus on the 'negative energy kills you' aspects for the most part while making use of undead on the sly, which could be fun to play with.
Aaaah.
I want to avoid a situation of 'Ebiris raises a zombie!' 'Bjorn PMs you saying that the necromancer has commited an evil act in front of you and a heresy. Kill.'. Whatever works beyond that.
Also tossed the old dice.
> Ah, the hell with it. Don't fail me now, Hatbot, or I kill you. Hard.
> !rollchar
<Hatbot> [4d6=5, 6, 6, 5] -> 17
<Hatbot> [4d6=5, 2, 1, 5] -> 12
<Hatbot> [4d6=1, 6, 5, 2] -> 13
<Hatbot> [4d6=4, 5, 2, 6] -> 15
<Hatbot> [4d6=2, 6, 5, 1] -> 13
<Hatbot> [4d6=3, 3, 5, 4] -> 12
<Hatbot> Infinite_Ko_Loop: 17, 15, 13, 13, 12, 12
<Alicia> Nice.
Quote from: Bjorn on January 14, 2008, 09:42:33 AM
Quote from: Anastasia on January 13, 2008, 03:44:37 PM
admit, I have slight hesitations about the whole Imperial China invading Europe thing.
How so? The Empire Under Heaven is only loosely Chinese. Mostly I'm stealing the idea of a bureaucratic-with-examinations government and the idea of parallel earthly and celestial governments. The trappings are likely to be much more Roman than otherwise. Also, it's probably worth pointing out that both the hobgoblins and the Empire are Lawful Neutral in this setting. The Empire isn't evil (though it does have a certain tendency towards inflexibility and systemic racism that some might find offensive), it simply has a divine mandate to bring law and government to the entire world.
Just to be clear, this setting is not intended to be political allegory of any sort. It started off as a combination of "races always fill the same roles, boring" and "wouldn't there be more storytelling potential in a situation where the PCs are automatically underdogs?" and went from there. I'm stealing real-world culture to save effort. ;)
Cool. :)
Quote
Quote
Still, I like the rest of what you did enough to more than offset that. I'm interested in a Brindian character offhand, maybe a cleric. Speaking of, can you elaborate on religions more at some point? You have some on the wiki, but it feels incomplete.
If the Church of St Turin is as catholic inspired as I think, playing an Italian Cleric should be fun. >_>
The Church is very Catholic in feel, with a byzantine array of prayers, rituals, and so on and so forth. One fundamental difference is that the Turinists never worship the Creator directly, but only ever the saints. While the religion as a whole is named for St. Turin, he is just first among equals, rather than having any special divine status. He's actually not even one of the most frequently worshipped saints -- his order devotes their time to maintaining the lists of saints and determining the validity of new claims to sainthood. This means the Church has much more diversity than the Catholic Church, being more a collection of 2700 different religions with a shared history, culture, and fundamental principle, rather than a true single Church. Politically, this is why the Church of St. Turin isn't a very powerful force in the Free Kingdoms. In game terms, it gives the players leeway to make up their own saint with his own religion, rituals, etc. The various orders can cover a lot of territory. I don't have much detail on saints and their orders made up at this point, and have been just filling in the details as I need them. I'd actually prefer it if you made up your own saint and order to suit yourself, but if you want me to sit down and make up example saints and orders I can put this on my "sooner rather than later" list.
Worship of the Faceless Lady isn't an organized religion. The Faceless Lady encourages the study of the world, self, and all forms of knowledge as a path to enlightenment. Some people focus on the self, some others work on mastering a single path or craft, still others seek to learn as much about the world as possible. The "holy text" is just a single story: an halfling tribesmen of antiquity looked up at the stars and said, "I wonder what they are?" The Faceless Lady appeared in a vision and promised protection and occasional guidance so long as the halfling continued to seek answers. Of course, the commentaries on the story, recordings of other visitations, and detailed analysis of the Faceless Lady's words and their implications can now fill an entire library. The only explicit commandment the Faceless Lady has ever delivered is to pursue understanding. It's generally held that the purpose of this pursuit is to lead to self-improvement, but there are several major schisms over the final goal of this process: either complete knowledge and understanding of all creation (the Full Way), an abolition of the need for conscious thought (the Empty Way), transcendence (the Starlit Way), or that there is no end to the process at all (the Neverending Way). Then there are scores of theories on the paths to any of these goals, which do not necessarily line up with the differences between goals themselves. The monks, for example, practice a regimen of physical self-discipline in pursuit of the Starlit or Empty Way, while wizards might be working towards any of the Ways but the Empty Way. Clerics of the Faceless Lady (the sharadhin) might be working towards any of the Ways, but they believe that study of the Faceless Lady is a vital component of the task. A long-accepted tenet is that one of the key tools of understanding the Faceless Lady is understanding how ordinary mortals relate to the Faceless Lady and her Commandment, and so sharadhin act as counsellors and arbiters in their community. This is an unofficial role, arising from the respect people give them for their choice of path and their wisdom, and there are no professional sharadhin.
Until the fall of Maggydd, dwarven religion was building, maintaining, protecting, and governing their home, and clerics basically filled the role of municipal government (zoning, construction, planning, etc) -- or, more correctly, the dwarves who filled that role became clerics. For clerics of Trymfyrd this is still true, but clerics of Maggydd are faced with the much more pressing challenge of reclaiming their home. Dwarves aren't religious in the sense that most other races understand it. They're just very passionate about their homes.
The Emperor Over Earth and the Celestial Court is just that -- another level of government over the Empire Under Heaven. The hobgoblins don't seem to worship the Celestial Court, per se: they're just carrying out the Court's orders. There aren't many clerics of the Celestial Court, and it's just another bureaucratic post. This isn't really an issue for anyone in the Free Kingdoms.
Is this the sort of information you were looking for? If you have questions, just let me know and I'll flesh things out more.
How big a part does religion tend to play in the free kingdoms? I don't mean politically but culturally? You mentioned some interesting clothing tendancies of the followers of the faceless lady (somewhat muslim in origin it appears) but is that what you see from the conservatives or is it more widespread throughout the religion or even further: Almost a mainstay of halfling culture to keep the face hidden?
Quote
Quote from: Dracos
Also, hesitation, but if you're encouraging suggestions, I'll suggest the Skill Trick section of Complete Scoundrel (for sending on request) but mainly because I've never used skill tricks in any game and they interest me as a way of varying things up. :P I still think sticking straight core is probably the best move.
I'm willing to look at it, but if no one else has experience with them I'm hesitant to include them. On the other hand, if it's a mechanic that improves non-combat skills, I'm for it. (I really need to look at Burning Wheel.)
I doubt anyone does. I've never seen them in any game here. Skills are the non-combat stuff mostly and there's only two non-core addressings of them I'm aware of offhand. One is in Complete Adventurer, which expands descriptions of various skills, but it largely irrelevant because the expansion of them inevitably is only relevant to folks with 20+ in a skill (e.g. no one but high level rogues). The other is skill tricks, almost irrelevant to non rogues, but not quite, several of them almost intended as such, but at 2 skill points per trick, they aren't exactly cheap to anyone who doesn't have skill points to spare. About half of them are combat related though and their usage is "once per encounter' usually, implying the intent. It covers such things from trick tumbles to bouncing off walls to specialized healing techniques and identify tricks. I can fling to you it and PHB 2, which I should probably bring up as a suggestion for its retraining feats/skills/otherthings, something I've come to consider just a good idea: Basically a ruleset to allow folks to replace antiqued/obsolete ability choices from earlier levels down the road.
Quote
Quote
What kind of starting resources might we be looking at? Standard level 4 (5400 gp, pg 135 DMG for ease) or something else? and equally how do you tend to feel about treasure/level advancement?
Standard level 4 is good, I think. I don't have strong opinions about treasure/level advancement at the moment, other than "it should suit the story being told." If you guys end up being too strong, I'll bump the difficulty of the game up. If you're not strong enough for the story we're running, then I'll bump you up. Again, I don't have any experience with 3.5 directly, so you're going to have to bear with me while I feel this out.
Agreed. Actually, while I (and I think most here) both enjoy lots of treasure (and some, particularly in dune and ebs games) are very used to extraordinary treasure amounts, for beginning GMs, its actually a really good idea to stick fairly closely to the treasure amounts given (at least for static treasure). Getting too far above or below average (in either treasure or ability scores) often results in the game balance (fragile as always) getting pretty atroticiously fragile. Most recent experience resulted in a pretty ridiculous damage per turn arms race. I find it useful to just keep a general eye on the static value of a character's resources and keep that in mind with treasure in 3rd. The average treasure values include a bit more in the assumption the players will be spending some of it on consumables, but as long as their non-consumables are pretty near their expected per level treasure, usually the CR system is reasonable good for eyeballing difficulty of an encounter.
Quote
Quote
What's kobold stats? :P I'm either thinking of halfling, kobold, or human roguey. :P Probably an arabic halfling with a smart mouth and a deep pain for a lost homeland. Or something.
I think I was just going to go with the basic MM kobold, but I'll look it over this evening.
cool, mind flinging it up on wiki when you do for easy reference? Anyhow, if ebs playing one, I won't go for it (unless everyone is). No need to step on other people's shticks. :)
Quote
Quote
We're settingwise career mercenaries? Also any regional things we should try and story in (e.g. is there a place we're kind of around or are we a roaming mercenary band from the getgo)
I'm flexible here. For my starting plan, all I need is that all the PCs be in Brindisi and members of the same Free Company. Ideally, at least one of you would have been in the Free Company for some time, while others can (if they want) be more recent hires. If you all want to be recent hires, then I can create NPCs for the head of the Company and possibly some veterans, but I imagine we'd all be happier if I can avoid this.
Your stats look fine to me, by the way.
Thanks. And understood, well, I think the next step towards that is for folks to voice what they're interested in playing and for us as a party to talk it over so we have a shared team concept to work off of when writing our histories/characters. I'll be around tonight if folks want to do that in #SL.
Quote
Quote from: Merc
I'm interested, but it depends on what you're expecting out of posting rate.
Dungeon crawl rates. 1-2 per day, more in the (unlikely) chance we're all around at the same time and interested in a posting rush.
Just a note, while I'm good with this obviously, usually a slow post rate should aim for between .5 and 1 post per player per day, e.g. if we have 4-5 players going at one post a day is very long for any conversation, whereas going at 5 posts a day isn't too bad at all. Mainly just suggesting we aim for folks checking and posting at least every other day and preferrably every day. We have 3 (2 and gm) in dungeon crawl, so usually in days we play at all, it tends to be at least 3 posts, myself, merc, and kotono. Mainly semantics. ^^;
Quote
At this point, I've got expressions of interest from Drac, Ana, Eb, Merc, and Brian, which is pretty much all I'm willing to take on for players. If anyone else is interested, feel free to post in case someone else drops out, but waiting list only now.
Cool. I'd be willing to play with any of the crew we got. :) I'd love to talk about party org with the group as a whole if we could. ^^ Even just everyone tossing out their thoughts for first choice of classes is good (I know Dune is thinking Cleric/Paladin, and eb is thinking a wizardry type and I'm thinking a rogue type).
---------------
And yeah, I'd be interest most in hearing what bjorn is thinking for a general party alignment goal. Sure, we can play anything in that setup, but I tend to find what the GM enjoys gming tends to be more fun. For all alignments, a rogue is pretty easy fair, but sticking a lawful good and a lawful evil together usually results in awkwardness.
Knowing bjorn though, I think the worries along that line are likely unfounded. That type of play is easily visible ahead of time and having player versus player usually kills a party real quick.
Looking over rogue with a touch of wizardry, a low level wizard-rogue doesn't look like it'd be very effective. I'll probably go either archer-halfling or human-flanker. Depending on how good we seem to look in a flanking setup. Admittingly, if we all are decently ranged, it might result in a fair subversion of the normal party where the goal of closing and staying near the enemy is needed for at least one character into a very hit and run shadow troop thing.
Quote from: Ebiris on January 14, 2008, 11:45:19 AM
The issue is that it gets more spells known, but from a very restricted list - it's a pure necromancer, that means you can't get any of the usual arcane staples like Fly, Teleport, or even Magic Missile.
I like it since it's super thematic, and the spells it does know are still sufficient to hold its own in most situations. I can link you with a rapidshare of the book when I get home from work in a few hours so you can look over it properly.
Found the class and looked at it. Basically, it's a sorcerer who knows more spells, has better HD and light armour proficiency, and a whole extra whack of extra abilities. The improved armour and HD is, presumably, to balance the fact that most of its direct-damage spells are touch, which is understandable. But... someone who was playing a sorcerer or wizard and was roleplaying it as a necromancer, it seems to me, would end up with pretty much that spell list, but the dread necromancer gets lots of very impressive special abilities (DR, touch attacks, saving throw bonuses) that others don't. It seems like a lot of advantage for what is essentially just an role-playing limitation.
The only balancing factor relative to sorcerers is the limited spell-list, and I'm not convinced that it's all that limiting. On the other hand, the fact you're going to go with a kobold is a balancing factor in itself. ;) Unless other players have contributions, what I'd like to propose is that it's okay for you to go with Dread Necromancer, with the understanding that if balance issues do become apparent, I'll ask you to switch to sorcerer (re-speccing as necessary). Comments from anyone?
Role of undead: basically, undead are unknown at this point. Fars Ian wizards are aware of necromancy to some extent, but it was a minor and mostly disregarded field until the Wasting War's magical fall-out suddenly made it a big issue. Undead are either complete myths to people, or the worst of the dangers in the Waste to the experienced. So no religious commandments against them, but you'd want to keep necromancy on the sly.
Brian: you is in.
No real restrictions on party alignment, but let's try to avoid "by design our characters must kill each other."
I'll probably get around to responding to Drac's stuff tomorrow. Sorry, it'll be a busy week for me.
Being a Kobold becomes even more unbalancing when you have stats like this...
[21:31] <Ebiris> !rollchar
[21:31] <Hatbot> [4d6=1, 4, 6, 4] -> 14
[21:31] <Hatbot> [4d6=2, 3, 4, 4] -> 11
[21:31] <Hatbot> [4d6=6, 3, 1, 3] -> 12
[21:31] <Hatbot> [4d6=5, 4, 5, 6] -> 16
[21:31] <Hatbot> [4d6=2, 3, 1, 1] -> 6
[21:31] <Hatbot> [4d6=4, 4, 2, 3] -> 11
[21:31] <Hatbot> Ebiris: 16, 14, 12, 11, 11, 6
Anyway, I still maintain that the lack of staple spells like fly, dimension door, polymorph, haste, time stop, and so on more than balances the class compared with the normal spellcasters. Even if you want to play a creepy necromancer dude, you're not going to pass up most of them unless you're deliberately gimping yourself - especially if you were a wizard and hence had no actual limit on the number of spells known. I guess we'll see how it plays.
Quote from: Ebiris on January 14, 2008, 05:40:01 PM
Being a Kobold becomes even more unbalancing when you have stats like this...
That's nasty, and a bit below what others have rolled. Feel free to roll again if you want.
As for the necromancer -- like you say, we'll see how it works. I
want it to work, because it is a nifty concept.
New stats rolled with gusto.
[22:28] <Ebiris> !rollchar
[22:28] <Hatbot> [4d6=1, 5, 3, 6] -> 14
[22:28] <Hatbot> [4d6=6, 2, 5, 4] -> 15
[22:28] <Hatbot> [4d6=6, 6, 2, 3] -> 15
[22:28] <Hatbot> [4d6=2, 3, 4, 6] -> 13
[22:28] <Hatbot> [4d6=3, 1, 4, 2] -> 9
[22:28] <Hatbot> [4d6=2, 4, 5, 2] -> 11
[22:28] <Hatbot> Ebiris: 15, 15, 14, 13, 11, 9
Quote from: Bjorn on January 14, 2008, 05:31:44 PM
Quote from: Ebiris on January 14, 2008, 11:45:19 AM
The issue is that it gets more spells known, but from a very restricted list - it's a pure necromancer, that means you can't get any of the usual arcane staples like Fly, Teleport, or even Magic Missile.
I like it since it's super thematic, and the spells it does know are still sufficient to hold its own in most situations. I can link you with a rapidshare of the book when I get home from work in a few hours so you can look over it properly.
Found the class and looked at it. Basically, it's a sorcerer who knows more spells, has better HD and light armour proficiency, and a whole extra whack of extra abilities. The improved armour and HD is, presumably, to balance the fact that most of its direct-damage spells are touch, which is understandable. But... someone who was playing a sorcerer or wizard and was roleplaying it as a necromancer, it seems to me, would end up with pretty much that spell list, but the dread necromancer gets lots of very impressive special abilities (DR, touch attacks, saving throw bonuses) that others don't. It seems like a lot of advantage for what is essentially just an role-playing limitation.
The only balancing factor relative to sorcerers is the limited spell-list, and I'm not convinced that it's all that limiting. On the other hand, the fact you're going to go with a kobold is a balancing factor in itself. ;) Unless other players have contributions, what I'd like to propose is that it's okay for you to go with Dread Necromancer, with the understanding that if balance issues do become apparent, I'll ask you to switch to sorcerer (re-speccing as necessary). Comments from anyone?
Role of undead: basically, undead are unknown at this point. Fars Ian wizards are aware of necromancy to some extent, but it was a minor and mostly disregarded field until the Wasting War's magical fall-out suddenly made it a big issue. Undead are either complete myths to people, or the worst of the dangers in the Waste to the experienced. So no religious commandments against them, but you'd want to keep necromancy on the sly.
Brian: you is in.
No real restrictions on party alignment, but let's try to avoid "by design our characters must kill each other."
I'll probably get around to responding to Drac's stuff tomorrow. Sorry, it'll be a busy week for me.
In fairness, a lot of that spell list is custom to that book and wouldn't appear in a core sorcerer's selection.
A lot of it, to my eyes, also isn't really very notably effective. I mean, sure it seems to have a lot of survivability boosts compared to a normal sorcerer, but at the same time, when I take out 'summon undead' from the set, I see one 4d4 blast spell and two hinderence spells and almost nothing else that struck my eyes as combat relevant. A sorcerer taking that list to be a necromancer would be half idiot to my mind in specializing so much there versus a little introduction of classical powerful spells (or at least something else on their list that can deal out some damage. Eb's kobold would be almost totally gimped if it ever had to contribute there without even the basic magic missile in the repiotoire. Yeah, there's some nice powerups in that selection, most notably a DR avaliable at a significantly lower level than anything else I'm aware of (barbarians, the technical DR kings don't get DR 2 until like level 9), but with a low strength and bab, it's going to have to work for those touch attacks to connect at all while staying in melee range.
Technically, I'd suggest to Eb to mix in a level of monk with that to remove AoOs (i think) and add a handy 1d4 extra damage to every touch attack he dishes out, but overall, I think that having almost all of your abilities be melee only is going to be glass canon enough. A standard sorcerer or wizard would never go for much of that, and clerics only do (rarely) from the fact they can be flouncing over there in platemail.
--------
btw, Bjorn, I need to know how you feel about SAs, coming from 2nd ed (I know when dune made his original transition he was exceedingly uncomfortable with SAs and AoOs). Any good rogue build (in combat) is generally about maximizing both of those opportunities because it is how we do damage in combat. If you're uncomfortable with that I can go work on a different build easily enough.
Well, if slot's still open, here's what hatbot rolled for me. Well, on his second roll to be honest (Drac convinced me you'd probably allow me to reroll since that first set of rolls had me with a total combined modifier of +1. Ewww):
[20:56] <Merc> !rollchar
[20:56] <Hatbot> [4d6=4, 1, 6, 5] -> 15
[20:56] <Hatbot> [4d6=5, 1, 2, 4] -> 11
[20:56] <Hatbot> [4d6=5, 4, 6, 1] -> 15
[20:56] <Hatbot> [4d6=4, 6, 1, 4] -> 14
[20:56] <Hatbot> [4d6=4, 1, 2, 2] -> 8
[20:56] <Hatbot> [4d6=5, 5, 2, 5] -> 15
[20:56] <Hatbot> Merc: 15, 15, 15, 14, 11, 8
Thinking on what to play, I'm kinda considering the hexblade from Complete Warrior, if that's acceptable, Bjorn.
I can send you complete warrior if you need it Bjorn.
The hexblade is a class I haven't seen played before (Not surprising, most splat classes are never played). It's basically a fighter/sorcerer with a wussy spell progression (emphasis on wussy) starting at level 6, almost no bonus feats, some decent magic protection, and primarily a hex that applies a -2 to to virtually everything for one hour on one foe (Getting a bit better with levels but not for a while). It also has good will saves rather than fort saves. Oh and they don't get to use medium or heavy armor.
I'm pretty sure a hexblade wouldn't be overpowered at all versus most of the core classes. It would have trouble going toe to toe with fighter or barbarian on the front line, due to a vastly hampered flexibility or power (respectively) and lack of medium and heavy armor, but its still able to be a frontliner, if not a tank. Its definitely different. Oh, he also gets a wussy familiar, historically a vulnerability more than an asset in 3rd ed games.
from a balance perspective, it is anything but cheese, though it could be really annoying on solo boss types, especially with a group backing it. But hey, if it doesn't get a chance to shine, that always sucks too and that's really its big draw, screwin' someone with a nasty hex.
anyhow, there, a toss up to make deciding on merc's request easier.
Quote from: Anastasia on January 14, 2008, 02:56:15 PM
I like that, and besides, the Catholics already worship sa-ack. Sorry, sorry. Bad joke. Anyway, I'll get to the point of this. I like it and I'll work something out with it easily enough. Does this freedom with saints include the ability to make one with the domains I'd like to grab? Other than that, this was exactly what I was looking for, thanks.
Yup, your own domains are your own to choose. Don't feel constrained, by the way. St. Malific, for example, is the patron saint of cruelty, infamous for butchering a town of a thousand people in a single night. Saints aren't always nice.
Quote from: Dracos
How big a part does religion tend to play in the free kingdoms? I don't mean politically but culturally? You mentioned some interesting clothing tendancies of the followers of the faceless lady (somewhat muslim in origin it appears) but is that what you see from the conservatives or is it more widespread throughout the religion or even further: Almost a mainstay of halfling culture to keep the face hidden?
Culturally, it's a fairly large thing, depending on the culture. ;) Almost all halflings venerate the Faceless Lady, in large part because her worship is very undemanding. Dwarves are profoundly religious. The Church of St. Turin is a huge part of human life, but not in an obsessive sort of way. People offer prayers to the appropriate saints at the right times, visit shrines of the order of their patron saint on relevant holy days. The most devout might go to sermons every week, but that's uncommon rather than not. Similar to the modern-day world, where people knows how to behave in Church, and know that life was better back when everyone went to Church, but hey, there's work around the house that I've been putting off, I'll make it next Sunday, okay?
Covering the face in public is pretty universally standard among followers of the Faceless Lady, and has become a halfling cultural standard, so that even halflings who don't follow the Lady tend to cover their face. This isn't a "stone the heretical bare-faced bastard" sort of affair, though.
QuoteJust a note, while I'm good with this obviously, usually a slow post rate should aim for between .5 and 1 post per player per day, e.g. if we have 4-5 players going at one post a day is very long for any conversation, whereas going at 5 posts a day isn't too bad at all.
Yes, I meant 1-2 posts per player per day, not overall.
Quotetw, Bjorn, I need to know how you feel about SAs, coming from 2nd ed (I know when dune made his original transition he was exceedingly uncomfortable with SAs and AoOs). Any good rogue build (in combat) is generally about maximizing both of those opportunities because it is how we do damage in combat. If you're uncomfortable with that I can go work on a different build easily enough.
I think sneak attacks and AoOs are a great addition to D&D combat mechanics. Bear with me in combat while I try and get the hang of all the details, but definitely feel free to build around them.
About the hexblade: I need to see the details, obviously. One thing, though: I'm not happy about classes that drag in new game mechanics. I just noticed that the Dread Necromancer has some swift action abilities, and I don't know what they are or want to get into the slippery slope from core it would represent. Eb, anything listed as a swift action I'm treating as a standard action.
Also: please, guys,
try to stay away from splatbooks. I know there's lots of cool stuff out there, but if I get overwhelmed with rules then the game isn't going to go well. If there isn't good thematic reason to take the class as a base for your character, please consider taking a core class as base and then taking levels in your splatclass later, when the game has a good rhythm going.
Quote from: Dracos on January 14, 2008, 03:18:35 PM
And yeah, I'd be interest most in hearing what bjorn is thinking for a general party alignment goal. Sure, we can play anything in that setup, but I tend to find what the GM enjoys gming tends to be more fun. For all alignments, a rogue is pretty easy fair, but sticking a lawful good and a lawful evil together usually results in awkwardness.
There's two issues here, and both are important enough to deserve a separate post. Alignment: I'm treating good as altruism, evil as selfishness; law as a belief in the importance of law and order, chaos as a wilful disregard of same. All of this is held to the standard of an objective, informed outside observer. So, for example, you can have a very complicated and rigorous set of morals and ethics, and still be CN if no one else knows or understands them. I'm going to feel free to change your alignment if your character demands it; there will be no experience penalties or any such, but if you want to rely on "protection from evil" you'd better actually act good.
There are no alignment restrictions or requirements for any classes, including paladins. Paladins instead must choose a deity and a suitable clearly-formulated cause with a defined (though not necessarily achievable) end condition: "Reclaim Maggydd", "retrieve the lost hand of St. Vecna." A paladin that completes his cause can either choose to stop progressing as a paladin without losing his current abilities, or choose a new cause. Paladins that work in violation of their cause, or don't pursue their cause aggressively, get treated as having violated their alignment used to work.
All of which to say is that alignment doesn't matter much.
Party dynamics, though.... The core of the campaign is based on the idea of the world on a cusp. You're a small band of adventurers who are going to find that a number of events are coming to a head, and your actions can dramatically change the course of events and the shape of history to come. And there are a lot of events and plot hooks, that can result in any number of outcomes, and I don't really care which way you as a group want to take it. What does matter, though, is that your characters need to be inclined towards being proactive. No one's going to be having a lot of fun if your character's reaction to a big revelation is always, "eh, not my job, let's go get paid." Have a mission, have a reason to work together, and try to arrange things so that any backstabbings happen at big dramatic moments.
So, as Drac suggested, I encourage all the players to talk and come up with common history. Name your Free Company, explain how you all got into it, outline some past missions if you want -- I'll help with this sort of detail if you want. And if you guys want to plan how you're going to use the other PCs to achieve your own secret nefarious aims, then hey, that's fun too.
Quote from: BjornEb, anything listed as a swift action I'm treating as a standard action.
Swift actions kinda are core, in that they're in the SRD. It's basically a free action that you can only take on your turn and you only get one per round. To wit:
Quote from: SRDA swift action consumes a very small amount of time, but represents a larger expenditure of effort and energy than a free action. You can perform one swift action per turn without affecting your ability to perform other actions. In that regard, a swift action is like a free action. However, you can perform only a single swift action per turn, regardless of what other actions you take. You can take a swift action any time you would normally be allowed to take a free action. Swift actions usually involve spellcasting or the activation of magic items; many characters (especially those who don't cast spells) never have an opportunity to take a swift action.
Casting a quickened spell is a swift action. In addition, casting any spell with a casting time of 1 swift action is a swift action.
Casting a spell with a casting time of 1 swift action does not provoke attacks of opportunity.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm#swiftActions (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm#swiftActions)
Changing abilities from swift to standard actions represents a considerable nerf, but since you're leery of the dread necromancer already, I won't push if that's what you decide.
Quote from: Ebiris on January 15, 2008, 02:21:00 PM
Swift actions kinda are core, in that they're in the SRD. It's basically a free action that you can only take on your turn and you only get one per round.
... Stuff's in the SRD that isn't in the core books? Urg. That hadn't even occurred to me.
Okay. Changing the rules summat. Anything in the core SRD is OK. I will still probably automatically check my books as first reference, so if something's in the SRD, feel free to tell me.
Sorry about the grief, Eb. It wasn't an attempt to nerf your class, I just didn't know what they were.
Off the top of my head, the main changes in the SRD compared to the books is the inclusion of swift and immediate actions, and various minor errata, as well as huge changes to all the polymorph style effects.
Also some UA style varient rules and crap. usually marked "VARIANT "X"".
The SRD though is awesome for ease of use.
Okay, I've talked with dune and eb a bit. Haven't reached the others. Sort of a rough of where I'm thinking of going with my character.
I'm a halfling merchant, varying between 40 and 60 years old (the middle age conversion rather hurts with all even scores so really have to think about it, I originally thought halflings lived 200ish years instead of 100, when I came up with the concept). A member of a rebellious secret society dedicated to returning to the glory days of Fars Ia. A strongly conservative and fairly extremist halfling group that works diligently and secretly against the spread of magic to non-halflings, against the Empire Under Heaven, and with a general agenda of forging a new homeland in Brindia from the inside and turning it into a new Fars Ia. Most of the group has considerable magical capabilities, though not all, and many of them appear as any halfling you might meet. Obviously, there are no members of this group that are not halflings. While there are many (most) who feel favorably towards the Brindians for their aid, the secret society sees it of no merit. None not of Fars Ia can truly be trusted with magic. The schools of wizardry are foolhardy and invite more disaster by spreading the teachings to those who would abuse it. The quest for enlightenment must involve the removal of those who would utilize it to destroy those wishing to study. To this end, the society will go to any reach to form a safe haven for halfling-kind as well as perpetrate the destruction of any other magic users and particularly Empire Under Heaven. For the most part, I play my role as a merchant and now, these past two years, as a fighter in our troop, my primary responsibility within the society both the passing of messages throughout the country in an untracable fashion and the raising of resources for the society. Foreseeing that the increase in demand for warriors would quickly raise the rates for mercenary tasks and generally not interfere with doing trade on the side, I took up that profession alongside to reach my goals. In specific though, when an opportunity to do something to advance this (whether assisting others in overtaking a city, bribing officials to limit non-halfling trade or magic study, assassinating foreign commanders, inciting war between the enemies of Fars Ia etc) comes into the picture, I'll generally take it. My skills in stealth and deception are how I tend to keep this separate from my comrades and from my public profession as a trader/mercenary.
Personality wise, open friendly, hard at bargaining. A very casual person outside of work.
Interests: Thoughts from the others, making sure this doesn't clash too much with Bjorn's thoughts.
I think this gives me a pretty solid agenda/motivation set that can be long lasting throughout the campaign, have definitive points of success and failure over it, and come into play in dramatic fashion during it. I'll probably pick up a good deal of merchantry, disguise, and stealth skills to back it up. I won't be picking up assassin most likely, but who knows. I may take a level in wizard or fighter sometime but who knows. I'll probably have a knack for little magic trinkets but then D&D is horrible for that, so I might not. Personally aiming for a bow of shock/ice/flame (THE TRINITY) and a moderately enchanted chainshirt with some shadow/silent move stuff on it before delving into rings of mental protection and trinkets of charm person and such. Also hopefully some manner of prop merchantry to go on, trading knicknacks and funneling money back to my society. I might pick up one level of wizard for charm, but probably not since it really would be better to do that through some knicknack.
Also more for brian and dune probably, but: If I'm going into such trinkets and fun merchant things as a theming, suggestions are welcome. I like keeping a list to keep an eye out for obviously (and as just a general helper/wishlist thing). But I didn't see a whole lot in the sub 3000 gp range for knicknacks of amusement/Charm. Might have to create some.
Quote from: Dracos on January 15, 2008, 02:18:13 AM
The hexblade is a class I haven't seen played before (Not surprising, most splat classes are never played). It's basically a fighter/sorcerer with a wussy spell progression (emphasis on wussy) starting at level 6, almost no bonus feats, some decent magic protection, and primarily a hex that applies a -2 to to virtually everything for one hour on one foe (Getting a bit better with levels but not for a while). It also has good will saves rather than fort saves. Oh and they don't get to use medium or heavy armor.
I'd probably describe it more as an arcane version of a paladin who fights dirty instead of well-armored and is motivated by selfishness instead of selflessness. He doesn't add new mechanics, just has abilities that point in a different path than a paladin's selflessness.
Instead of a mount, he gets a familiar. Instead of smite, he gets a curse ability. Instead of remove disease, he gets a limited use 20% cover aura and a few spellcasting bonus feats. Instead of knowledge (royalty) and sense motive, he gets intimidate and bluff. Instead of good fort, he gets good will. And instead of lay on hands and divine health, he gets mettle (aka evasion for fort/will instead of reflex). He still gets charisma bonus to saves.
He is essentially on same power scale as a paladin, mechanics-wise, maybe just a little lower since he uses spontaneous casting (and thus has limited number of spells known). Background-wise, it is essentially a sorceror who self-taught himself to fight melee instead of focusing on gaining more magical powers.
If you are against the concept, or would rather not download a book just for a class, then I guess I can play a wizard of some sort.
Added setting details (which will become relevant directly): Sorcery isn't spontaneously
developed casting in this setting. All arcane magic users must learn to manipulate magic directly. While wizards then learn how to manipulate small amounts of magic to prepare a triggerable, self-powering magical construct ("memorization"), sorcerers instead teach themselves to manipulate magic directly to achieve their desired ends. Wizardry is safer, in that it requires the personal manipulation of much smaller amounts of raw magic, and the common "building block" approach of constructs in prepared spells means that it's very easy to pick up new spells. But learning the constructs is a process that requires a lot of study, how to put them together even more, and devising new ones even more yet, since they are very abstract objects. Once you've learned how to manipulate magic, it's much easier to simply try and make it do what you want directly. Of course, it's more taxing, which puts a limit on how much sorcery you can do in a day, and figuring out how to get the magic to do what you want sometimes leads to disaster. Until a few human experimenters proved otherwise, Fars Ian wizards were of the opinion that sorcery was impossible, as a) no one could learn to channel enough magic directly to accomplish anything meaningful, b) you could easily kill yourself if you attempted to handle too much, and c) you'd probably die trying to figure things out anyway. They were wrong.
(Sorcerers killing themselves, blowing things up learning magic, etc. is just fluff. You are heroes, and heroes don't cut their story short by learning a magic spell wrong.)
Quote from: Merc on January 15, 2008, 08:22:34 PM
I'd probably describe it more as an arcane version of a paladin who fights dirty instead of well-armored and is motivated by selfishness instead of selflessness. He doesn't add new mechanics, just has abilities that point in a different path than a paladin's selflessness.
Thematically, the hexblade seems (not surprisingly) to be built around his curse ability. The problem is incorporating that into the setting. The two most logical ideas to me are either corruption by the Waste, or a mishap in learning sorcery -- something that severely damaged your ability to manipulate magic, but at the same time leads to an aura of bad luck. Do you have ideas?
Quote
If you are against the concept, or would rather not download a book just for a class, then I guess I can play a wizard of some sort.
I've looked at it, and it seems well-balanced. I'm also beginning to suspect that splat might have to be included to get anyone to take up a warrior class at all. I guess at this point my only hesitation is thematic; if you can flex out the sort of person you want your hexblade to be (and why it needs to be a hexblade, and not a fighter/sorcerer or rogue/sorcerer), then we can work on that.
Quote from: Dracos on January 15, 2008, 07:54:20 PM
Okay, I've talked with dune and eb a bit. Haven't reached the others. Sort of a rough of where I'm thinking of going with my character.
Various thoughts:
I'll look at lifespans for the various races. Off-hand, though, I was thinking about 70-80 years for humans and hobgoblins, 100-120 for halflings and goblins, 300 or so for dwarves, 50-60 for kobolds, and 2000-5000 for elves. For the concept you're going for, I'd think that you'd want someone in the range of 20-40, born some time after the Wasting War, though.
Secret society idea is great. Fars Ia was built on trade, though, and Brindia was a major trading partner and ally, so a completely dismissive attitude doesn't fit well. On the other hand, they might well take the attitude that's there lots of space for humans to live, and if they want to stick around in a new Fars Ia, well, we can likely rule them better than they would get anyway.
A level of wizard would be a good idea, I think. It seems to me that's how the secret society would tend to pick up most of its recruits, halflings in the academies who seemed to resent rubbing elbows with the humans and dwarves. Of course, you could just have dropped out after not showing much talent, or been recruited from family connections or something, so it all works.
Mercenary work isn't very profitable. People think it is, since mercenaries tend to be boisterous and live large, cost a lot, and there's always the stories of finding some long-lost treasure on a dangerous mission. By and large, though, the broker takes most of the money and mercenaries that aren't prudent end up with little to show at the end of their career. On the other hand, trading is getting less profitable with every year, especially in Brindia. So your general idea is very reasonable, but your character might be a little bitter and disillusioned. ;)
I was wavering on that simply because (unlike second eds dual class setup) a level is a pretty costly expenditure for background purposes and doesn't seem like it'd add very much in terms of interesting role playing considerations, but rereading over the level 1 wizard stuff, I might just do it though, a familiar that is still advancing won't be a total deadweight and can be its own amusing little addition, I can do some occassionally neat things with level zero spells, and even if its only one spell a day, some of the level one spells are interesting. (I was originally most worried under the '1 spell? That's not even really parlor trick level. And all of them will end up listing casting level as an important thing).
But hey, why not, some wizardry with my roguery and my merchantry.
We talked about it a bit and I'll likely write up the society when I get a chance along with a character draft.
I'll be working on a character Sunday, I won't have anything solid until then. Are we going to have a party leader like I heard tossed around? Merc and I were discussed as possibilities, and if the onus ends up on me, I'd like to know and design my PC's setup accordingly.
Quote from: Anastasia on January 16, 2008, 12:49:08 PM
I'll be working on a character Sunday, I won't have anything solid until then. Are we going to have a party leader like I heard tossed around? Merc and I were discussed as possibilities, and if the onus ends up on me, I'd like to know and design my PC's setup accordingly.
This is up to you guys. My planned story begins with the PCs as members of a somewhat experienced Free Company. Ideally, at least one of you would be a long-term member of the Free Company. If only one of you is, then that person would be head of the Company and the other characters would be recent hires. If several of you are, then it does not matter to me how you manage the Free Company -- party leader, democratic votes, shares, what have you. If none of you want to be long-term members of the Company, then I'll create an NPC company leader. This is really not a great idea.
I'd like someone to be leader and to play bookkeeper to it, having been in it for a year or so.
Going to set up a forum shortly.
Also for Bjorn, might want to think about how powering up items plays in (if at all) to the game world. I find its often a nice character builder 'iff' there's a viable way (and particularly if said viable way doesn't necessarily include gathering up and converting a bunch of items to raw cash first, but it usually does), since then things gotten early still are valuable later, and indeed can get their own little story stuff around them.
Any limitation on how much of our starting gold we can spend on any one item?
Also, at 4th level I get to add 1 additional cleric/wizard necromancy spell to my spell list. Unfortunately, DN's already get all the core ones of 1st and 2nd level, so I need to look further afield. The one I'd like to get is Kelgore's Grave Mist, which is on page 117 of Player's Handbook II, except perhaps slightly modified for ease of use.
It's a 2nd level spell that creates a 20 foot radius mist for 1 round/level that does 1d6 cold damage per round to anything within and causes fatigue. It has some somewhat odd mechanics in its interaction with spell resistance (failing to beat SR means you still do damage but the fatigue is negated). For simplicity I'd suggest just changing it so the damage is unavoidable, but a fort save negates the fatigue.
Weird spell effect. Kind of powerful, yet kind of impotent. Fatigue is brutal in battle, but then so is sleep and stuff, and that's avaliable at a lower level. It does area damage, but compared to the first core spell that does, the damage is so pathetic as to be unnoticible, and for damage dealing, magic missile at a lower level is pretty much as good and better with time.
Quote from: Ebiris on January 23, 2008, 06:21:15 PM
Any limitation on how much of our starting gold we can spend on any one item?
Yes. If I look at your item list and see something game-breakingly powerful, we will have words.
Other than that, no. Again, I am trying to trust you guys to be as sane as possible.
Quote
Also, at 4th level I get to add 1 additional cleric/wizard necromancy spell to my spell list. Unfortunately, DN's already get all the core ones of 1st and 2nd level, so I need to look further afield. The one I'd like to get is Kelgore's Grave Mist, which is on page 117 of Player's Handbook II, except perhaps slightly modified for ease of use.
It's a 2nd level spell that creates a 20 foot radius mist for 1 round/level that does 1d6 cold damage per round to anything within and causes fatigue. It has some somewhat odd mechanics in its interaction with spell resistance (failing to beat SR means you still do damage but the fatigue is negated). For simplicity I'd suggest just changing it so the damage is unavoidable, but a fort save negates the fatigue.
The spell is fine. Let's stick to the the base rules for it to start. The fluff is obviously that it's a supernatural chill, which is why it prompts fatigue so quickly. On a design level, the terrible damage indicates the fatigue is the major effect, and that means it's designed to cripple melee characters. Making resistance to the fatigue effect based on a Fort save means that the characters it is principally designed to affect are the ones who are most resistant to it. If anything, I'd have it based on a Will save, but let's see how it goes first.
Question, though. Does the fatigue automatically wear off at spell's completion, or does it still require eight hours of rest to negate?
I plan on getting a cloak of charisma +2. Since I have a cha of 15 and it's my primary casting stat, I don't think it's unreasonable.
As for the fatigue, it lasts as long as normal fatigue - considering most enemies will get killed within a few rounds anyway, I don't think that's a big deal. A fort save seems to make the most sense for resisting tiredness - the vast majority of necromantic effects require fort saves, anyway.
Quote from: Ebiris on January 24, 2008, 05:09:57 AM
I plan on getting a cloak of charisma +2. Since I have a cha of 15 and it's my primary casting stat, I don't think it's unreasonable.
Absolutely fine.
Quote
As for the fatigue, it lasts as long as normal fatigue - considering most enemies will get killed within a few rounds anyway, I don't think that's a big deal.
It does change the interpretation of the spell's duration, though. 1 round/level sounds low until you realize that the major effect of the spell will last the rest of the day.
Of course, it also makes it a spell that will hit the PCs harder than the NPCs. ;)
Quote
A fort save seems to make the most sense for resisting tiredness - the vast majority of necromantic effects require fort saves, anyway.
I think we'll stick to the RAW for now. It isn't obviously broken as is, and I'd like to give it a shot before we try to tinker with it.