Okay, at this point we've set up two Major Arcs (Flicking Valua in the nose, Rescuing Captain Dyne), and a Minor Arc (Getting your own awesome ship and pirate crew). I think everyone is actually being cool with our slow pace. That's awesome, I really have to hand it to you all. :) We also have been going for a few months now successfully. Yay.
So let's go over things that are working/not working/what folks like to see:
Captain is not going well. Really, I don't feel you guys are giving this a fair shake :(. It really helps me to have someone on the player team to resolve stalls and keep it moving. What could make this work better? Give me some feeeedbaaaack. :)
Exiting scenes. I don't move scene without folks exiting it. It feels like folks are used to something different and my way does require a lot of player interaction, but part of why I do it like this is that I always hate it on my end when a GM doesn't let me steer where the hell I'm standing at least. Would players prefer something different? I don't feel it's working too well yet, so what would folks like to deal with as far as changing scenes and keeping things moving?
Iddy asked about setting up a spy network. Cool. I'm game with that slowly growing up and all that. IC none of you know about that kind of stuff. That'll be fun ^^.
Trunky clearly wants to build cool shit, explosives, devices, whatnot. Really, I've been too resisting here because you're supposed to be really junior and you aren't acting like it at all (which bugs me! Build yourself up, don't come out as supergenius because the stats don't back it!). I think I should allow more of it though, because it's fun and because trunky finds it fun and the game is about having fun. Problem is right now the system we're using doesn't map it well. There's not a lot of room for it since it seems too permanent. If we keep with the system, let's sit down and talk about a way for you to really go the tinker gnome route, e.g. you make things that sometimes succeed, sometimes fail, sometimes explode (thus leaving the scene) and whatnot. What I'd like to see from you is some examples of things you want to tinker to make in the future so we can hash out a bit how these come about in the game. And focus on some small things. You don't have to make a super catapult. I'll be a lot more friendly to pitches of "I'm going make this set of firework/flares." and wacky/colorful stuff like that.
Wow, you guys captured a pet. Do you guys really want the pet? I'd like a bit more actual work put into really taking care of it so it feels like it's a part of the team if so. Right now, I've got that you guys captured it and that Trunky has been keeping it pinned for however long it's been going...and so it feels weird to me when you'll want to use it in the future to do somethings for you that it'll cooperate at all. The menchi stuff is funny (especially because it doesn't have enough meat on it for four really), but if we're going the pet route, let's have some IC attempts to actually befriend the nasty flying thing instead of just yanking it around. I'm glad to work with you guys here if you want it, but I want to at least feel that it's being done.
Others, what cool stuff do you want to do? I've gotten that folks aren't interested in navigating around with a set of 'questgiver businesses' which is fine, but instead let's carrying things toward and closer to where folks are having fun.
System? Yeah the 4E thing. Is it really working for anyone? I'm not so sure we're really using it that much and I do like the themes, but it seems without a grid and things we're really slowing down on it. The re-warm up battle was sooo slow and really showed a lot about the classics of random dice systems. At the same time, it was that randomness that lead to you guys taking a pet. Would folks like to continue using this?
An alternative I'm thinking of is going with a light-weight edition of it. Keep your specializations and whatnot, feel free to pillage it for moves, but going free roleplay with the emphasis being the character archetypes you already have set up using the system. Yes, we'd still have battles and possible improvements and whatnot, but it'd probably be a little more flexible for tinkering. What would be the thoughts there?
Anyhow, open discussion for all encouraged participation and all that. :)
Quote from: Dracos on March 29, 2009, 02:35:59 PMCaptain is not going well. Really, I don't feel you guys are giving this a fair shake :(. It really helps me to have someone on the player team to resolve stalls and keep it moving. What could make this work better? Give me some feeeedbaaaack. :)
Exiting scenes. I don't move scene without folks exiting it. It feels like folks are used to something different and my way does require a lot of player interaction, but part of why I do it like this is that I always hate it on my end when a GM doesn't let me steer where the hell I'm standing at least. Would players prefer something different? I don't feel it's working too well yet, so what would folks like to deal with as far as changing scenes and keeping things moving?
Well, the captain thing, all I'm really doing is just settling differing opinions. As for actually being the resolve stalls and keeping it moving, that's more Iddy's scene there.
Part of it is that I'm kinda used to Dune's style of moving scenes along once he thinks we're done with stuff, so I habitually wait for you to move us to the next scene even though you've already stated that's not your style. There have been a few times I actually thought you were going to move us along so I cancelled a line on my end, deciding to just let you handle it, and then 5 minutes later, Iddy just does it for both of us. Sorry about that.
QuoteStuff about Iddy/Trunky
Nothing to really add here.
QuoteWow, you guys captured a pet. Do you guys really want the pet? I'd like a bit more actual work put into really taking care of it so it feels like it's a part of the team if so. Right now, I've got that you guys captured it and that Trunky has been keeping it pinned for however long it's been going...and so it feels weird to me when you'll want to use it in the future to do somethings for you that it'll cooperate at all. The menchi stuff is funny (especially because it doesn't have enough meat on it for four really), but if we're going the pet route, let's have some IC attempts to actually befriend the nasty flying thing instead of just yanking it around. I'm glad to work with you guys here if you want it, but I want to at least feel that it's being done.
Eh, to be fair, I mostly suggested the whole pet thing as a joke. I actually like the concept of keeping it cranky. At best, I'd like to see it only really favor and warm up to Trunky's insane gnome, and still hate the rest of us. IC, to Marcus, it's just a 'toy' given to Glubtz to keep him slightly distracted from blowing the rest of them up.
QuoteOthers, what cool stuff do you want to do? I've gotten that folks aren't interested in navigating around with a set of 'questgiver businesses' which is fine, but instead let's carrying things toward and closer to where folks are having fun.
I didn't really go into the game with many expectations/desires besides flashy moves, and general piratey scoundrel/swashbuckler action. One thing I would want, I guess, is more human opponents, or rather, at least, opponents we can have fun dialogue against as we duel. Too many lizardish thingies so far.
QuoteSystem? Yeah the 4E thing. Is it really working for anyone? I'm not so sure we're really using it that much and I do like the themes, but it seems without a grid and things we're really slowing down on it. The re-warm up battle was sooo slow and really showed a lot about the classics of random dice systems. At the same time, it was that randomness that lead to you guys taking a pet. Would folks like to continue using this?
An alternative I'm thinking of is going with a light-weight edition of it. Keep your specializations and whatnot, feel free to pillage it for moves, but going free roleplay with the emphasis being the character archetypes you already have set up using the system. Yes, we'd still have battles and possible improvements and whatnot, but it'd probably be a little more flexible for tinkering. What would be the thoughts there?
While I do kinda like some things from 4e, the lack of grid thing -really- detracts from the system's shining spot, leaving it as a pretty 'bleh' system, to me. Also don't really like that we just don't have any source of heals whatsoever besides second wind and soem abilities that let us do same thing. 4e, is, unfortunately, a system driven more by party dynamics than class dynamics, and we're really kinda missing an integral part with both Brian and Hannah's dropped healers. You're pretty much going to end up getting restricted a lot towards having to toss tanks at us in a lot of situations, things with low damage so we don't bite it in a few attacks, but still can't one shot from our end. There's also no real way to multiclass into healing in the system unless you were doing it from the start, which also kinda sucks.
Not really sure on what the best option to fix on that would be. A light-weight modified version of the system wouldn't be bad, but it's something we'd have to test. Alternatively, might wnat to see about intrest in switching systems, since primarily, decision to go with 4e was to test system out and I think we have a fair handle on what it's faults and strenghts are by now, so both house-ruling stuff or switching systems are both viable options now.
Yeah, not having a good grid method really hurt. I probably could get around that by now what with a new internet but one bitten, twice shy and all. Losing both healer type characters and the grid has left it not shining very well. I suspect with a table and grid and whatnot it'd go well, but from the GM side, what's really hurt as well is that treasure feels very indistinct. I've had a hard time judging from the book readings what all is appropriate to give you and how to make that exciting.
And yeah, 4th ed is very not flexible on a character focus. You can't swap outside your paradigm.
If folks have an interest in another system (Seven Seas maybe) we can try that as well. I'm definitely open to it.
And yeah, I want to have more human fights too. Banter has been lacking, and you can't taunt a lizard. I sense that the opening encounters were way more enjoyed. I mainly had that lizard island bit since it was:
A)A good chance to remember the system after the break.
B)A good excuse for why you guys will be able to travel everywhere and then 'vanish'.
Quote from: Dracos on March 29, 2009, 02:35:59 PM
So let's go over things that are working/not working/what folks like to see:
Captain is not going well. Really, I don't feel you guys are giving this a fair shake :(. It really helps me to have someone on the player team to resolve stalls and keep it moving. What could make this work better? Give me some feeeedbaaaack. :)
Totally agree with this... Excepting certain things. Traditionally, captains only had real power in combat. Everything else was determined via voting. Where they went, who they targeted, ect. So far, our decision making has been somewhat in line with this.. Except in combat. Never hear orders or anything, which is what I'd expect from a leader. Beyond that, I'm pretty satisfied with how it's going..
Quote from: Dracos on March 29, 2009, 02:35:59 PM
Exiting scenes. I don't move scene without folks exiting it. It feels like folks are used to something different and my way does require a lot of player interaction, but part of why I do it like this is that I always hate it on my end when a GM doesn't let me steer where the hell I'm standing at least. Would players prefer something different? I don't feel it's working too well yet, so what would folks like to deal with as far as changing scenes and keeping things moving?
Like Merc said about changing scenes.. It seems like I, and to a lesser extent Trunky, am the one who almost *always* pushes the interaction and scene advancement forward. Now.. I can understand people being out of it occasionally, but so far it's been for the entire game. It's old. It's annoying. It makes me feel like I'm the only one interested in advancing anything outside of combat. It's frustrating when I sit for five minutes, or more, waiting for someone else to do something and nothing happens. This is everyone's game, take initiative/interest in it outside of rolling dice, for the love of god.
Quote from: Dracos on March 29, 2009, 02:35:59 PM
Iddy asked about setting up a spy network. Cool. I'm game with that slowly growing up and all that. IC none of you know about that kind of stuff. That'll be fun ^^.
Trunky clearly wants to build cool shit, explosives, devices, whatnot. Really, I've been too resisting here because you're supposed to be really junior and you aren't acting like it at all (which bugs me! Build yourself up, don't come out as supergenius because the stats don't back it!). I think I should allow more of it though, because it's fun and because trunky finds it fun and the game is about having fun. Problem is right now the system we're using doesn't map it well. There's not a lot of room for it since it seems too permanent. If we keep with the system, let's sit down and talk about a way for you to really go the tinker gnome route, e.g. you make things that sometimes succeed, sometimes fail, sometimes explode (thus leaving the scene) and whatnot. What I'd like to see from you is some examples of things you want to tinker to make in the future so we can hash out a bit how these come about in the game. And focus on some small things. You don't have to make a super catapult. I'll be a lot more friendly to pitches of "I'm going make this set of firework/flares." and wacky/colorful stuff like that.
I really do like the spy network thing. It gives a more solid outlet/motovation for flirting. It's also a good avenue for Drac to reward good RPing and play style. Gives him more opportunities to supply us with side quests, profitable ventures, or information for when we come up against something we're not quite ready for yet. Also gives the group access to being able to pick up new crew members or introduce new players, like Merc's friend. I think it holds lots of potential to enrich the game, and add another layer to it's depth. After all, I *am* right. Whores and tavern girls *do* overhear a lot of conversation and secrets, and where else would we get that kind of info?
As for Trunky's stuff.. Eh, it's amusing. I'm not sure how Drac would have it work, though.. If he, or Trunky, could figure out a way to put modifications that he or I thought up into actual use, it'd be pretty cool. It'd also be another way to make use of the spy network. Trunky wants to upgrade the engines? Use the spy network to find the rare crystals he needs, ect. If there's a way to make it actually beneficial, I'm all for it. If it's just goofing off, I'm still for it, I just don't want to spend excessive amounts of time on it.
Quote from: Dracos on March 29, 2009, 02:35:59 PM
Wow, you guys captured a pet. Do you guys really want the pet? I'd like a bit more actual work put into really taking care of it so it feels like it's a part of the team if so. Right now, I've got that you guys captured it and that Trunky has been keeping it pinned for however long it's been going...and so it feels weird to me when you'll want to use it in the future to do somethings for you that it'll cooperate at all. The menchi stuff is funny (especially because it doesn't have enough meat on it for four really), but if we're going the pet route, let's have some IC attempts to actually befriend the nasty flying thing instead of just yanking it around. I'm glad to work with you guys here if you want it, but I want to at least feel that it's being done.
Ehh.. The pet's cool and all, but unless Drac wants to control it and use it for stuff, I don't really see it being more than background stuff. Dune used Serith as his own play-toy in that game, but not towards the end of the game. Once he started using her, though, he did admit he enjoyed it a lot. Said it gave him more interaction with the players and an outlet to feel like he was also playing along with everyone outside of just directing the game as a GM. If you're interested in developing the pet into something, I'd talk to Dune about it and get some ideas on how to use it for your own amusement, Drac. DMing gets boring at times, and I think it'd be a good outlet for ya.
Quote from: Dracos on March 29, 2009, 02:35:59 PM
Others, what cool stuff do you want to do? I've gotten that folks aren't interested in navigating around with a set of 'questgiver businesses' which is fine, but instead let's carrying things toward and closer to where folks are having fun.
Hell yeah. Add some more facets to this thing. Make it seem like everyone has more of a hand in it, instead of just Trunky and me. Even if some/most of the stuff is done via posting to avoid getting sidetracked on game days, it'll make the world seem fuller.
Quote from: Dracos on March 29, 2009, 02:35:59 PM
System? Yeah the 4E thing. Is it really working for anyone? I'm not so sure we're really using it that much and I do like the themes, but it seems without a grid and things we're really slowing down on it. The re-warm up battle was sooo slow and really showed a lot about the classics of random dice systems. At the same time, it was that randomness that lead to you guys taking a pet. Would folks like to continue using this?
An alternative I'm thinking of is going with a light-weight edition of it. Keep your specializations and whatnot, feel free to pillage it for moves, but going free roleplay with the emphasis being the character archetypes you already have set up using the system. Yes, we'd still have battles and possible improvements and whatnot, but it'd probably be a little more flexible for tinkering. What would be the thoughts there?
Ehh.. I'm not all that keen on 4E so far. Some things I like about it. How spells work now. I never really liked how memorizing spells worked in previous editions, it seemed like such a pain in the ass to weigh one spell's usefulness against another..
Quote from: Iron Dragoon on March 29, 2009, 10:44:24 PM
Quote from: Dracos on March 29, 2009, 02:35:59 PM
So let's go over things that are working/not working/what folks like to see:
Captain is not going well. Really, I don't feel you guys are giving this a fair shake :(. It really helps me to have someone on the player team to resolve stalls and keep it moving. What could make this work better? Give me some feeeedbaaaack. :)
Totally agree with this... Excepting certain things. Traditionally, captains only had real power in combat. Everything else was determined via voting. Where they went, who they targeted, ect. So far, our decision making has been somewhat in line with this.. Except in combat. Never hear orders or anything, which is what I'd expect from a leader. Beyond that, I'm pretty satisfied with how it's going..
Personally, it's out of combat that's exactly where I was hoping it to come into play (see original thread on it). It was a casual title for thematics, but it basically was intended as "At least one player, keep responsibility for not reaching deadlock so I don't have to funnel NPCs to break deadlock". Deadlocks not fun, but neither is NPCs coming in and grabbing the players to say 'go here'.
Quote
Quote from: Dracos on March 29, 2009, 02:35:59 PM
Exiting scenes. I don't move scene without folks exiting it. It feels like folks are used to something different and my way does require a lot of player interaction, but part of why I do it like this is that I always hate it on my end when a GM doesn't let me steer where the hell I'm standing at least. Would players prefer something different? I don't feel it's working too well yet, so what would folks like to deal with as far as changing scenes and keeping things moving?
Like Merc said about changing scenes.. It seems like I, and to a lesser extent Trunky, am the one who almost *always* pushes the interaction and scene advancement forward. Now.. I can understand people being out of it occasionally, but so far it's been for the entire game. It's old. It's annoying. It makes me feel like I'm the only one interested in advancing anything outside of combat. It's frustrating when I sit for five minutes, or more, waiting for someone else to do something and nothing happens. This is everyone's game, take initiative/interest in it outside of rolling dice, for the love of god.
Yup, part of why I asked for it and...well, a bit of a challenge for me because that goes for other things too. I'm more sure about what to fling both Iddy and Trunky to keep their interest (Babes, Adventure, and Explosive Tech) then I am about either Merc or Edward. Merc's been good here. I know he's totally wanting to get to banter more. Bar fights, pirate fights, merchant ship fights, etc. But either way, everyone taking a turn steering the party would help.
Quote
Quote from: Dracos on March 29, 2009, 02:35:59 PM
Wow, you guys captured a pet. Do you guys really want the pet? I'd like a bit more actual work put into really taking care of it so it feels like it's a part of the team if so. Right now, I've got that you guys captured it and that Trunky has been keeping it pinned for however long it's been going...and so it feels weird to me when you'll want to use it in the future to do somethings for you that it'll cooperate at all. The menchi stuff is funny (especially because it doesn't have enough meat on it for four really), but if we're going the pet route, let's have some IC attempts to actually befriend the nasty flying thing instead of just yanking it around. I'm glad to work with you guys here if you want it, but I want to at least feel that it's being done.
Ehh.. The pet's cool and all, but unless Drac wants to control it and use it for stuff, I don't really see it being more than background stuff. Dune used Serith as his own play-toy in that game, but not towards the end of the game. Once he started using her, though, he did admit he enjoyed it a lot. Said it gave him more interaction with the players and an outlet to feel like he was also playing along with everyone outside of just directing the game as a GM. If you're interested in developing the pet into something, I'd talk to Dune about it and get some ideas on how to use it for your own amusement, Drac. DMing gets boring at times, and I think it'd be a good outlet for ya.
Really, not that interested there. :) I do totally understand that side (heck, have used it before). I'm more really interested in what you guys want to do with it since you captured it.
Quote
Quote from: Dracos on March 29, 2009, 02:35:59 PM
Others, what cool stuff do you want to do? I've gotten that folks aren't interested in navigating around with a set of 'questgiver businesses' which is fine, but instead let's carrying things toward and closer to where folks are having fun.
Hell yeah. Add some more facets to this thing. Make it seem like everyone has more of a hand in it, instead of just Trunky and me. Even if some/most of the stuff is done via posting to avoid getting sidetracked on game days, it'll make the world seem fuller.
We're not going to be doing outside of game stuff (sorry). But yes, that's sort of something I'd like to do a bit of. :)
Quote
Quote from: Dracos on March 29, 2009, 02:35:59 PM
System? Yeah the 4E thing. Is it really working for anyone? I'm not so sure we're really using it that much and I do like the themes, but it seems without a grid and things we're really slowing down on it. The re-warm up battle was sooo slow and really showed a lot about the classics of random dice systems. At the same time, it was that randomness that lead to you guys taking a pet. Would folks like to continue using this?
An alternative I'm thinking of is going with a light-weight edition of it. Keep your specializations and whatnot, feel free to pillage it for moves, but going free roleplay with the emphasis being the character archetypes you already have set up using the system. Yes, we'd still have battles and possible improvements and whatnot, but it'd probably be a little more flexible for tinkering. What would be the thoughts there?
Ehh.. I'm not all that keen on 4E so far. Some things I like about it. How spells work now. I never really liked how memorizing spells worked in previous editions, it seemed like such a pain in the ass to weigh one spell's usefulness against another..
Good to know. Part of it, in case it's used again, is really that we don't have the grids. It's a very heavily grid based game and not getting that going really hampers it.