Every few months I like getting the pulse of the game. You know, get in touch and find out what's working for you and what isn't. It's a chance for everyone to talk about the game and volunteer information up. This first installment is on the earl side, but I'd like to open up comments early on, so if any corrections are needed they can be done now instead of later. Better to fix problems before they get out of hand, yeah?
Please try and post here before Thursday's session. Thanks.
Game world
1. How do you like the city of Balmuria? Do you feel it gets enough attention and feels like a part of the game, or is it more of an afterthought for you guys?
2. What aspects of the game world you like to see more of?
3. What aspects of the game world would you like to see less of?
NPCs
1. What NPCs do you like so far? Why?
2. What NPCs do you dislike so far? Why?
3. Do you feel NPCs have enough time on camera? Too much? Not enough?
4. For NPCs that follow you, I'm planning to keep them all about 2 levels behind the party. Does this sound good to you guys?
Battle
1. How have the battles been so far?
2. How do you feel you're performing so far? Any concerns about anything?
3. How do you feel the others are performing? Do you feel that anyone is falling behind or overshadowing the rest?
Meta
1. Any suggestions for how I run the game? Am I doing something particularly good or particularly bad?
2. So far it's been largely group adventures and less focus on splitting up or individual scenes. With more jobs coming in it's entirely feasible you guys could split up to get more done at any one time. Would you guys like this or any permutations thereof?
3. Any other complaints/comments/compliments? Get 'em out here.
1. How do you like the city of Balmuria? Do you feel it gets enough attention and feels like a part of the game, or is it more of an afterthought for you guys?
It's nice enough, and it's presence is definitely there, but we're still starting out, so we aren't exactly interacting with a whole lot of the city so far. This will probably change as we start growing a reputation though, so I'm not concerned with how it's going, and I think it's fine between what we do get, and what's in the world flavor thread.
2. What aspects of the game world you like to see more of?
Nothing comes up from the top of my head.
3. What aspects of the game world would you like to see less of?
I don't really hate anything so far either, honestly.
1. What NPCs do you like so far? Why?
Sylvie. She's just kind of interesting with her nerdy mom thing. I still want to meet the kid one day though.
2. What NPCs do you dislike so far? Why?
I don't really care much about Noel/Branna mostly because it's hard to peg a personality to them, and they just fade into the background. Coming from me, given I sometimes do the same, well...
3. Do you feel NPCs have enough time on camera? Too much? Not enough?
Sylvie is fine. Josa is interesting enough when he shows up, being so...bubbly, but his presence as a boss isn't really felt strongly either, and even with the stock-closet, it feels a little hard to justify paying him 50% from an OOC perspective (IC, Andrea doesn't really think much on it and thus not bothered by it).
So far, he's only really found us one possible job, which admittedly we turned down, but in general he just tells us to go look for stuff or advertise and we do that. But it really feels like we're doing our job troubleshooting and then his job too. I'd just like to see his presence more in a sense that makes him feel like a boss.
Noel/Branna, like I said, fade away too much when they're around. It's kinda turning into a joke like that one character from the Eyeshield 21 manga (assuming you even get the reference past my having mentioned it before) is technically there, and they're supposed to be helpful, but they don't really add anything either.
4. For NPCs that follow you, I'm planning to keep them all about 2 levels behind the party. Does this sound good to you guys?
I don't have a problem with them being lower level, or closer, or whatever. You could also consider having some non-gestalt characters. It seems everything in the world is a gestalt right now? I don't know if that's your intent, or just how it's happened to go with encounters we've had.
1. How have the battles been so far?
Fun enough, although even as gestalt, there's some of that concern just from being lower level, especially since a lot of the encounters seem to be gestalt themselves.
2. How do you feel you're performing so far? Any concerns about anything?
Hatbot seems to hate me for attacks, so I'm performing pretty lame there, but I'm happy with the support portion of my build and may just keep emphasizing that. I do feel a bit awkward with having a lot of social skills though, especially when I'm generally not strong with them, and it feels a bit wrong to type something lame and then succeeding just because my character is talented in that, but not typing anything has it's own lameness.
3. How do you feel the others are performing? Do you feel that anyone is falling behind or overshadowing the rest?
I like the other characters, and I'm comfortable enough with them as allies/friends. Outside of that, I'll abstain on commenting since it's hard to comment on stuff like falling behind/overshadowing from just two levels, and things will keep changing.
1. Any suggestions for how I run the game? Am I doing something particularly good or particularly bad?
While I like going out and finding out our own adventures from time to time, when I think of this kind of set-up, my mind goes to that board of jobs in Fairy Tail with a ton of jobs that members of that guild just go up to and pick something they feel like doing.
I went over it a little with my issue with Josa above, but I really do wish he'd do more that makes him feel like the boss, like the guy who organized us and leads us. That's really the only thing that really bugs me right now (I don't care about Noel/Branna enough to be bothered by their lack of presence, honestly, and I'm still happy exploring/learning about the balmuria world).
2. So far it's been largely group adventures and less focus on splitting up or individual scenes. With more jobs coming in it's entirely feasible you guys could split up to get more done at any one time. Would you guys like this or any permutations thereof?
Eeeh, splitting up players just leads to split attention and one side of two or more rooms always seems to get more done than the other even if they should have taken the same amount of time. Unless someone is going to be absent for a few sessions, I'm more of a fan of sticking together. It's not bad to have split rooms from time to time, simply by necessity or someone being bored with what's going on and wanting to go do something else, but in general, I'd rather have everyone together.
3. Any other complaints/comments/compliments? Get 'em out here.
Nope.
1. How do you like the city of Balmuria? Do you feel it gets enough attention and feels like a part of the game, or is it more of an afterthought for you guys?
It seems pretty well in there, but it's early on and there's still lots to explore. There's been a lot of focus on the temples and high class taverns/inns, it'd be nice to get more with the seedy underbelly, such as it is. If it even exists - if it doesn't then more reason to go to Sanaxt or some other place with more excitement!
2. What aspects of the game world you like to see more of?
Oh, I just answered that, didn't I? More grit and what lies beneath the shiny veneer.
3. What aspects of the game world would you like to see less of?
None of it's been objectionable enough to get rid of. The nice stuff is still there, after all.
NPCs
1. What NPCs do you like so far? Why?
Sylvie's the only NPC with real presence, I feel. We've seen a few others who seem to hint at more - Moongal, the Selunite aasimar, the duo from Sanaxt, but none have really had enough interaction to really cement anything.
2. What NPCs do you dislike so far? Why?
I hadn't actually thought about it, but Merc's complaints about Josa are spot on. He really needs to earn his keep better. Noel and Branna are complete non-entities who seem to fall into the same quantum uncertainty state that familiars often do, seeming entirely absent until suddenly one of them pops up in the middle of the scene, which is pretty jarring. I certainly don't like them enough to actually want to see more of them, though.
3. Do you feel NPCs have enough time on camera? Too much? Not enough?
I'd say they have enough as things stand, as I said the undeveloped ones can hopefully grow more as the game progresses.
4. For NPCs that follow you, I'm planning to keep them all about 2 levels behind the party. Does this sound good to you guys?
Totally don't care.
Battle
1. How have the battles been so far?
Low level is sketchy and gestalt doesn't really help with the overall fragility and see-saw nature of combat right now.
2. How do you feel you're performing so far? Any concerns about anything?
Even with ranged touch attacks, -4 for firing into melee is harsh. The swarms are getting me by, though.
3. How do you feel the others are performing? Do you feel that anyone is falling behind or overshadowing the rest?
Everyone seems reasonably competent, no one really feels to be carrying the team or dragging us down.
Meta
1. Any suggestions for how I run the game? Am I doing something particularly good or particularly bad?
I wouldn't worry so much about giving everything in the world a full set of gestalt class abilities. It's fine for notable NPCs, but for fodder and even for set piece monsters it just doesn't matter so long as it has a few abilities it can showcase in a fight.
Having more 'up front' job visibility would be nice, because having Josa send us out bar-hopping every five sessions to drum up work is getting old. We could even have our own in-house notice board where prospective customers can just toss something up and we can peruse at leisure. Either that or have rumours come across more naturally through the grapevine than us specifically asking a bartender.
2. So far it's been largely group adventures and less focus on splitting up or individual scenes. With more jobs coming in it's entirely feasible you guys could split up to get more done at any one time. Would you guys like this or any permutations thereof?
I don't mind doing simple little jobs alone, particularly social-oriented ones where we can develop our characters and the NPCs more - ditto for non-job side scenes. Best for little stuff we can do when not all the players are around as much to pass the time as anything, since we're on the clock for scheduled sessions it's best to make sure everyone's fully involved and preferably together at those times so we can make the most of it.
3. Any other complaints/comments/compliments? Get 'em out here.
Nothing springs immediately to mind.
I'll do these too. I'll answer them to the best of my ability and as reasonably close to the question as possible.
Game worldQuote1. How do you like the city of Balmuria? Do you feel it gets enough attention and feels like a part of the game, or is it more of an afterthought for you guys?
It's doing okay. One thing I want to present is the city as a culture and it's own entity. Like how someone from New York City is someone from New York City. You can tell. I want the city to have more flavor. On the other hand I worry about drowning you guys in it, or making you more beholden to checking the background info topic several times a session.
Quote2. What aspects of the game world you like to see more of?
The PCs! Okay, this one's hard for me to answer without getting spoilery.
Quote3. What aspects of the game world would you like to see less of?
References to old PCs. They have a time and a place, but I don't want to flood Merc/Yuth with stuff that Cor/Eb get but you guys don't. You want it to be part of the world without being a wank, y'know?
NPCsQuote1. What NPCs do you like so far? Why?
Sylvie and Josa. They have the most heart in them; Sylvie's fun in a smart, slightly snarky way. Josa just damned fun to have around, though hasn't quite gotten a lot of time yet.
Quote2. What NPCs do you dislike so far? Why?
Lisanne's husband. NPCs that provoke that manner of reply suck, arguments about it aside.
Quote3. Do you feel NPCs have enough time on camera? Too much? Not enough?
It's about right. I'd like to have them have more time on camera being useful and fun. If you have someone who you like having around, I want them to be useful to you guys. On the other hand it's always a balancing act so that the NPCs don't start to intrude on the PCs or take away the limelight from them.
Quote4. For NPCs that follow you, I'm planning to keep them all about 2 levels behind the party. Does this sound good to you guys?
<_<
The idea is to have a standard I can work with and refer to regarding any NPCs that end up around. For example I thought it was awesome Wayland got some helpers of his own with some quick words and force. I have no problem with the party making friends, so when this does happen a policy in place is nice.
Battle1. How have the battles been so far?Solid. I'm keeping it fairly simple so far and keeping battle sizes low. One note that I've been meaning to talk about for awhile:
Most enemies of intelligence try to finish off wounded enemies unless circumstances advise otherwise. When you're hurt and facing something nasty, there's nothing wrong with full defense, withdrawal or healing. Yes, I'm thinking of Wayland here. OOC I wondered why you didn't heal or take precautions, but I suppose you figured the best defense was trying to end the fight with offense.
Quote2. How do you feel you're performing so far? Any concerns about anything?
I want more interesting opponents, as well as using gestalt to greater ends. You can make some nutty combination with gestalt as well as awesome ones. So far I've stuck to familiar ones. I want to try and change this.
Quote3. How do you feel the others are performing? Do you feel that anyone is falling behind or overshadowing the rest?
Janson's behind right now but this past level helped him a bunch, so we'll see. Aaeru's a bit ahead of you guys due to VoP, this will likely taper off later as more magical items become available. Balance looks solid enough so far, though.
MetaQuote1. Any suggestions for how I run the game? Am I doing something particularly good or particularly bad?
For you guys? I love it when you guys chat and go back and forth in #elysium as a group. Sometimes I feel Eb and Cor dominate these for various reasons, especially with Yuth feeling quiet. I worry about possible alienation there, but that's the sort of thing I worry about as a DM. I want the players to be having fun and be friends, y'know?
Quote2. So far it's been largely group adventures and less focus on splitting up or individual scenes. With more jobs coming in it's entirely feasible you guys could split up to get more done at any one time. Would you guys like this or any permutations thereof?
No opinion here for now.
Quote3. Any other complaints/comments/compliments? Get 'em out here.
Check the board once per day and reply as needed. Don't be afraid to post! Even if you think it's silly or stupid, sling it up. Communication is good and the board's good for easy inter-group communication.
Quote3. What aspects of the game world would you like to see less of?
References to old PCs. They have a time and a place, but I don't want to flood Merc/Yuth with stuff that Cor/Eb get but you guys don't. You want it to be part of the world without being a wank, y'know?
I don't mind them, personally, it's a way of showing the world off and learning about it, though it does take a while to remember some of the references even if they've been at the world fluff thread (an example being that Luna shop, that Eb/Cor immediately picked up on, but I briefly went 'huh?' on. It was easy enough to look up in the world fluff thread though, and most references do seem to pop up there in the thread.)
Quote1. How have the battles been so far?
Solid. I'm keeping it fairly simple so far and keeping battle sizes low. One note that I've been meaning to talk about for awhile:
Most enemies of intelligence try to finish off wounded enemies unless circumstances advise otherwise. When you're hurt and facing something nasty, there's nothing wrong with full defense, withdrawal or healing. Yes, I'm thinking of Wayland here. OOC I wondered why you didn't heal or take precautions, but I suppose you figured the best defense was trying to end the fight with offense.
That was partly my fault too. I can't recall the last time I've healed or been healed in the middle of combat, so it's not something I tend to think of as an option, and here I'm the only one that has healing spells right now.
Quote2. How do you feel you're performing so far? Any concerns about anything?
I want more interesting opponents, as well as using gestalt to greater ends. You can make some nutty combination with gestalt as well as awesome ones. So far I've stuck to familiar ones. I want to try and change this.
I do want you to keep in mind that you don't -have- to gestalt everything, and sometimes it may be more interesting to toss a higher CR opponent at us instead of a gestalt opponent. You don't have to, but keep that in mind.
Quote3. How do you feel the others are performing? Do you feel that anyone is falling behind or overshadowing the rest?
Janson's behind right now but this past level helped him a bunch, so we'll see. Aaeru's a bit ahead of you guys due to VoP, this will likely taper off later as more magical items become available. Balance looks solid enough so far, though.
I honestly don't feel like Janson's behind right now because the swarm stuff lets him keep up with the rest of us. I actually tended to feel that Wayland was the weakest character, but the difference was pretty small with us being level 1, and psionic hijinks will probably put him on better ground (nobody kills with their brain quite like a barbarian though).
Quote3. Any other complaints/comments/compliments? Get 'em out here.
Check the board once per day and reply as needed. Don't be afraid to post! Even if you think it's silly or stupid, sling it up. Communication is good and the board's good for easy inter-group communication.
I check the board more often than that. =p
Selected replies.
From Merc's post:
Quote2. What NPCs do you dislike so far? Why?
I don't really care much about Noel/Branna mostly because it's hard to peg a personality to them, and they just fade into the background. Coming from me, given I sometimes do the same, well...
They aren't developed yet. I want to spend some time with them, they have a tendency to fade into the background because of this. I still feel I've made a bit of progress with both. Noel's a touch cowardly and not much of a stand up guy. Branna's more brave and loyal, as well as feeling a considerable debt towards Wayland for bailing them out of trouble. I want to build on these with time, the main factor against it is that they're often around with Sylvie. Sylvie invariably steals the scene, or at least my attention. She's a bright girl so I make sure to consider what she says.
QuoteJosa is interesting enough when he shows up, being so...bubbly, but his presence as a boss isn't really felt strongly either, and even with the stock-closet, it feels a little hard to justify paying him 50% from an OOC perspective (IC, Andrea doesn't really think much on it and thus not bothered by it).
So far, he's only really found us one possible job, which admittedly we turned down, but in general he just tells us to go look for stuff or advertise and we do that. But it really feels like we're doing our job troubleshooting and then his job too. I'd just like to see his presence more in a sense that makes him feel like a boss.
Yeah, I agree here and want to modify this. We'll see how it develops, just saying I'm aware of this and concur.
QuoteI don't have a problem with them being lower level, or closer, or whatever. You could also consider having some non-gestalt characters. It seems everything in the world is a gestalt right now? I don't know if that's your intent, or just how it's happened to go with encounters we've had.
Most everything is. I'm not a huge fan of the PCs and a handful of people being gestalt while the others aren't. It really messes with my innate sense of game balance and immersion. (Grognard detected.) That said I'm trying to spice up the formula, using templates instead of a class or second class on things, as well as trying other packages.
Quote2. How do you feel you're performing so far? Any concerns about anything?
Hatbot seems to hate me for attacks, so I'm performing pretty lame there, but I'm happy with the support portion of my build and may just keep emphasizing that. I do feel a bit awkward with having a lot of social skills though, especially when I'm generally not strong with them, and it feels a bit wrong to type something lame and then succeeding just because my character is talented in that, but not typing anything has it's own lameness.
Agreed. I think Andrea has charisma and you're finding more of her voice. Just keep with it and see how she blooms. Also perhaps try a few gimmicks? I can give you a few suggestions if you'd like.
Eb replies:
QuoteIt seems pretty well in there, but it's early on and there's still lots to explore. There's been a lot of focus on the temples and high class taverns/inns, it'd be nice to get more with the seedy underbelly, such as it is. If it even exists - if it doesn't then more reason to go to Sanaxt or some other place with more excitement!
There is some as Aaeru's situation implies, but not the sort of real GRIMDARK suffering other cities may have. By standards Balmuria's the most prosperous city in the region in the last several thousand years, blessed by magic, mythal and fate. It reminds me of what an early Netherese city might have been like in Forgotten Realms. There's so much new potential and chances to grow. It's very much like, say, America in 1880. There's untold riches at your beck and call, seemingly an entire world of potential hardly dreamed of in the old empires over the sea. Of course that time is called the Guided Age and there's a lot to be said of that as well...
But since there's an existing portal network taking sojourns to other areas isn't hard at all, and getting back to Balmuria is easy. If you guys want gritty or harsh later on and Balmuria's not doing it, feel free to take a portal hop.
QuoteEven with ranged touch attacks, -4 for firing into melee is harsh. The swarms are getting me by, though.
I know I risk being smited by saying this, but dip fighter for two levels for precise shot!!!!!!
*Smited*
Quote
Having more 'up front' job visibility would be nice, because having Josa send us out bar-hopping every five sessions to drum up work is getting old. We could even have our own in-house notice board where prospective customers can just toss something up and we can peruse at leisure. Either that or have rumours come across more naturally through the grapevine than us specifically asking a bartender.
/me nods.
Yeah, a lot of things so far have been a bit forced since you're starting out. Now that you guys have made a bit of scratch, more work can start piling up. I like how you and Merc both mentioned a job posting board, I'll keep that in mind and work on it.
Game World
1. It doesn't get enough attention, but we haven't been at it long enough.
2. See 1
3. People who feel like they only exist to make a point about something.
NPCs
1. Sylvie is okay, although it would be nice to have another likeable NPC who is there to compare her to.
2. Sylvie is the only NPC of note.
3. To continue this trend, yes, it would be nice for other NPCs to be developed alongside Sylvie. I would very much like to avoid a single NPC who is lots more close to the party than everyone else, whether everyone else is a faceless minion or not.
4. Don't care about mechanics, here. That might change if I take particular liking to an NPC?
Battle
1. We really only had three battles so far. No complaints.
2. I have the expectation of winning if I use enlarge self and grapple. This has been met with mixed results even during the times when I could actually cast the spell in battle. Not enough data to say if that'd work for me, and I don't want to rely on it constantly either. Not enough data on whether I'm decent in combat without enlarge self+grapple, either.
3. More interested in how others act outside of battle. Talking > rolling, for me.
Meta
2. I have the feeling that doing more pair/solo stuff is more conductive to meeting more people and getting acquainted to them, thus giving them a chance to develop. But if I desperately wanted this I would've said so of my own initiative.
I've actually read through the thread this time, rather than the opening questions. My comments:
QuoteJanson's behind right now but this past level helped him a bunch, so we'll see. Aaeru's a bit ahead of you guys due to VoP, this will likely taper off later as more magical items become available. Balance looks solid enough so far, though.
Dune, could you please elaborate on this?
QuoteI hadn't actually thought about it, but Merc's complaints about Josa are spot on. He really needs to earn his keep better. Noel and Branna are complete non-entities who seem to fall into the same quantum uncertainty state that familiars often do, seeming entirely absent until suddenly one of them pops up in the middle of the scene, which is pretty jarring. I certainly don't like them enough to actually want to see more of them, though.
Seconded. Thirded, really, considering Merc. Incidentally, like Erin, Aaeru indeed has a familiar. It will never show up if I can help it, however.
QuoteThere is some as Aaeru's situation implies, but not the sort of real GRIMDARK suffering other cities may have
It's weird for me to saying it, considering my character, but Balmuria having ordinary disease going around seriously breaks my suspension of disbelief and my immersion. Aside from the many, many reasons I don't buy it, disease spreads and is nasty and it has to be a major imperative for the authorities to help with it whenever it springs up. Perhaps they can pay the many temples in the city to send their acolyte to cure disease for free to prevent its spread-- well, the spell is actually free of costly material components. I guess the city can pay the clerics so that the clerics feel better about doing this 6 seconds-lasting thing so that their neighbors and the people who they pass on the street don't share the Plague with them?
Sarcasm and all, but this specific part just really doesn't work for me. Why did I jump to disease when my situation was mentioned? Because 2 out of 2 times I had Ilmater time, diseased people were there and we treated them! Without magic!!!
Speaking of. I really liked what you wrote on the people frequenting Ilmater's temple. I'd love to do things with them outside of repetitive caring for faceless, nameless people. I presume I spend much of my time at the temple helping out
off screen because doing the same thing again and again is really boring to RP. But hopefully, my 'coworkers' can become more than a face and a writeup?
The fact that Balmuria is such a rich and prominent city means it's going to attract people from all over. Not all of those people are going to be honest hard working types. Think of it like LA or Hollywood, all the people from the sticks who go there with dreams of making it in the Big City only to slip through the cracks, or who go there solely to prey on all the glitz and wealth that's put so temptingly on display. It's the latter I'm more interested in - a rich city means a rich criminal underworld.
As for disease, I think there's an important difference between a plague and an illness. The city might pull out all the stops to contain a highly contagious deadly disease, but I can't see it enforcing mandatory cures every time someone comes down with something - it's just not worth it to cure Bob the Ratcatcher of his diarrehea if he's just going to get reinfected tomorrow and it's nothing a bit of bedrest and better hygiene won't cure on its own.
I don't like being a naysayer, but while I can understand the appeal of interacting with the criminal element, I don't share it myself. It's not something that particularly connects to me, and I expect it to have coarse, rude and untrustworthy people that I doubt I'll like. As an aside, while I can get how crime might still exist, obviously, I think that organized crime (mafia!) or old school banditry just can't work in a city like present day Balmuria. So that leaves, what, pickpockets and the usual minor inconveniences? If we're dead-set on exploring serious criminal elements, I'd prefer to do it in another city where I'd find it more believable. Luckily, Balmuria is a trading hub!
While I purposely referred to the black death to up the sarcasm to eleven, I think you're underestimating the effects, in turn. If you have a disease strong enough and/or contagious enough that you would visit a doctor if you had the cash for it, then it's a disease that I would expect the city and the various clerics to heal. It helps that it's free and only takes 6 seconds of their lives. You are, of course, entirely right that clerics shouldn't bother to cure diarrehea or insomnia or hangovers.
Quote2. I have the expectation of winning if I use enlarge self and grapple. This has been met with mixed results even during the times when I could actually cast the spell in battle. Not enough data to say if that'd work for me, and I don't want to rely on it constantly either. Not enough data on whether I'm decent in combat without enlarge self+grapple, either.
Early on it should work fairly well. Later on you'll run into bigger creatures and start having the normal difficulties there. However, bear in mind that most things have a decent check at this stage and a single +4 isn't an auto-winner.
Quote
2. I have the feeling that doing more pair/solo stuff is more conductive to meeting more people and getting acquainted to them, thus giving them a chance to develop. But if I desperately wanted this I would've said so of my own initiative.
Deeply exploring characters tends to work best in smaller groups, since you can focus on one or two people. For example, one thing I want to do is have Wayland just spend some time interacting with Noel/Branna one on on-er, two. You're right about it and having it be a useful too for developing people.
QuoteDune, could you please elaborate on this?
Grapple's a good shutdown option and you're competent in melee. You're not head and shoulders above the others right now, but I feel your build is the best one of them right now and VoP helps that since it's strong right now.
QuoteWhile I purposely referred to the black death to up the sarcasm to eleven, I think you're underestimating the effects, in turn. If you have a disease strong enough and/or contagious enough that you would visit a doctor if you had the cash for it, then it's a disease that I would expect the city and the various clerics to heal. It helps that it's free and only takes 6 seconds of their lives. You are, of course, entirely right that clerics shouldn't bother to cure diarrhea or insomnia or hangovers.
Ironic fact time: Dysentery, diarrhea and the like kill millions of people in the third world. If you don't have medical help and lots of clean water these sort of diseases are absolutely killer. You shit yourself to death through dehydration, not a good way to go.
Let's look at Balmuria a moment. Let's say Balmuria has 100,000 people living there right now. It's a nice round number for easy math, so bear with me. Out of them 1% is sick with something or another, so 1,000 people. That's a rough estimation, but it works for me. This ranges the gamut from colds and stomach aches to full on horrible disorders and malaise. Out of these thousand people, how many can get magically cured? How many spells per day of remove disease are floating around? Not 1,000, let alone that the priests in question are always going to memorize that one spell and cast it the maximum number of times per day. This isn't even counting the normal influx of people visiting, at trade or what have you. They bring in more people, more sicknesses and more germs. Further, while Balmuria is prosperous, it's sanitation still isn't up to modern snuff. Diseases spread easily, especially amid the lower classes.
It's not realistic for disease to be wiped out. Someone who's in bad shape is going to get a cure disease. Someone who can pull out of it on their own isn't. It's hard pragmatism.
QuoteIt helps that it's free and only takes 6 seconds of their lives.
Oh sure, it's free to cast for the cleric. A cleric of Ilmater or a paladin with cure disease may very well do it for free. Most clerics though?
Remove Disease by a 5th level caster: 150 GP.
Clerics have to pay the bills too. Their temples need money to enact the will of their Gods and donations are standard. The city has a budget too, and paying temples 150 GP per time they cure disease is going to fuck the bottom line faster than Gate can make a bad pun. I mean, I'd love to think that disease can be wiped out with ease, but it's just not realistic. Money, resources and simple reality say otherwise.
Edit: I'll get to the crime/underside branch tonight.
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Janson's behind right now but this past level helped him a bunch, so we'll see. Aaeru's a bit ahead of you guys due to VoP, this will likely taper off later as more magical items become available. Balance looks solid enough so far, though.
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Dune, could you please elaborate on this?
Grapple's a good shutdown option and you're competent in melee. You're not head and shoulders above the others right now, but I feel your build is the best one of them right now and VoP helps that since it's strong right now.
My VoP at lvl2 gave me:
+4 to AC (Exalted bonus that counts as Armor, so not stacking with MA and the like)
2 Exalted feats (Nymph's Kiss that gives bonuses to cha-based skills and 1 skill point per level, and Initiative of Spirituality, which gives a 1/day 3d6 area blast vs undead and outsiders)
I had to pay with two normal feats for it.
My VoP at lvl3 gave me:
+5 to AC (+1 from previously)
2 Exalted feats (the aforementioned ones)
Endure Elements as an Ex (which is nice!)
I seriously fail to see how this is in any way overwhelming, now or then, but you keep on mentioning my VoP in chat and how it's made me very strong.
With the conclusion of this trip it's about time for another round of feedback! Please read and respond! These are cribbed from the first set; I feel they're a good set of questions.
How do you feel the gameworld has been represented so far? The focus is Balmuria and the surrounding areas, how do you feel the flavor of them has been?
What do you think of the surviving NPC cast? Feel free to be as specific or as broad as you wish.
There were a bunch of NPCs along for the Hell trip. Were there too many for your tastes?
How have the battles been lately?
How have you preformed in combat? Concerns about your own performance?
Do you think the others are holding up their end of things? How about your allies? Are they useful? Any suggestions for how they continue to improve?
Any suggestions for how I run the game? Am I doing something particularly good or particularly bad?
More alone/duo time? Less? More group stuff? Less?
Any other comments or feedback that fits nowhere else?
How do you feel the gameworld has been represented so far? The focus is Balmuria and the surrounding areas, how do you feel the flavor of them has been?
Nothing's really changed here, opinion-wise. We haven't really seen all that much new environment-wise that's Balmuria-related (the little split-off solo-sessions and the lunar festival pretty much) since we've been off exploring outside of it (Janson's home, fairy maze, undead temple, jumanji, puzzle dungeon, hell).
Hell felt like hell though, for both good and ill of that!
What do you think of the surviving NPC cast? Feel free to be as specific or as broad as you wish.
My opinions over Sylvie/Simmer haven't really changed.
Josa, while it was very nice to actually see him in action and doing more stuff (given that was one of my earlier complaints), didn't really impress overall. It was little things like the magic missile thing and others that showed he's not exactly a very wise person for all his intelligence, while nice character touches also irked given the situations where he had his blonde moments. Still, he's not the only one that made some dumb/rash decisions, and in the end, he cared enough about two employees to go dive into hell for and spend a small fortune on rescuing. That's respectable.
I really would like to see him doing something cool/impressive though, something that'd make me go "Man, glad he's on our side!" or "And that's our boss for ya! Isn't he cool?", y'know? Like I said, my main gripe is that he just doesn't set out to impress.
There were a bunch of NPCs along for the Hell trip. Were there too many for your tastes?
While team bimbo wouldn't have known about the people limit on Planar Shift, I'm surprised that neither Sylvie nor Josa did and that we'd have too many people if nobody died (or maybe they were just cynical and expected people to die along the way?).
'Coincidently' (or some master plan? Dun dun duuuuuuuun~!), we ended up with the right number after deaths, but that could have been more awkward if even one of the NPCs that died didn't.
The decision to take Simmer along felt weird too given she doesn't have much to do when fire resistance comes up, though thankfully she found a role as the potion gal since I'd probably be dead otherwise, and Dolarin's bow made her less boring than she would otherwise have been in that whole scenario.
Otherwise though, I think we went in with the right idea of taking as many people along as we could to improve our chances. We were going to hell! We needed to take everyone we could that could help!
How have the battles been lately?
Hell was kinda feeling like a long RPG-grind session for exp. It's most interesting in the beginning, and while you're still at it to get to your reward, near the end you care less about the encounters and more just getting to your goal. I was starting to feel like it was dragging, so I appreciated the turn of events with the nightmares and amusement over having to control my character to do something stupid (yeah, I'm kinda masochistic like that. It's probably why Andrea keeps getting into such situations).
Andrea's lips were saying "No! No!" but surely she meant "Yes! Yes!" even as she struggled against Aaeru's embrace!
How have you preformed in combat? Concerns about your own performance?
I'm pretty comfortable/happy with character for now.
Do you think the others are holding up their end of things? How about your allies? Are they useful? Any suggestions for how they continue to improve?
I'll be honest and say I haven't really been looking at Janson's/Wayland's side of things since they got tossed to hell (I kept planning to wait until we got through or I died, so time for some log diving this week). That said, overall I'm comfortable with all of them and trust them to watch my back/not let me die. Not much more to say there.
I do hope to see Simmer do more than just stand there looking because she's got nothing to do when stuff's immune to fire, that's always depressing, so it was nice to see her pick up Dolarin's bow. I hope to see her doing more of that sort of thing, I guess?
And I've already commented on Josa above. I want to see him do something cool/impressive/wizardish!
Any suggestions for how I run the game? Am I doing something particularly good or particularly bad?
I don't really have complaints besides those we've already voiced over chatroom post-sessions, and you've generally taken those comments into consideration already, so don't really have much to add in that regard. I would like to see fewer sub-tables for a while though!
More alone/duo time? Less? More group stuff? Less?
I'd like to get the group together and do more four-of-us stuff again after being split off from each other. But less in the combat/fighting side of things and more of the interaction stuff. I really do like combat scenes, but I'm down for a breather from that after the grindathon that was hell.
I'm going to answer these myself to give you guys my thoughts. Please don't reply to my answers until you've replied to these questions yourself.
How do you feel the gameworld has been represented so far? The focus is Balmuria and the surrounding areas, how do you feel the flavor of them has been?
It's been doing okay showing you the city and the world around it, not great. I'd like to get into more flavor of how things work, make it more of a breathing, living world. I think I've gone a little too far in laying off that stuff lately, letting the setting become taken for granted. Admittedly a giant, unplanned Hell trip took the focus off Balmuria entirely for awhile.
What do you think of the surviving NPC cast? Feel free to be as specific or as broad as you wish.
Sylvie's still fun and I've found my voice for her. She didn't have a lot of chance to show that voice during the Hell trip, but she's been good otherwise. She's fun and I enjoy her snarking when she gets going. She's just the right shade of irrelevant while taking things seriously enough.
Noel and Branna were fun, shading them in a little here and a little there. It's a shame they're dead, brave Noel and cowardly Branna...wait. Oops. I mean brave Branna and cowardly Noel!
Brent I was playing as a young paladin full of go get 'em! He went and got it, his very own funeral plot. Sorry Andrea.
Simmer's turned into a light hearted, in it for the fun sort. I'm playing her as growing used to her new sense of wonder, slightly drunk on her new life and all the amazing things she has grown to know. Having friends to help her integrate into a new life steered her away from a breakdown all alone, I think, and she's damned lucky for it.
Josa's a windbag with subpar judgment at times. This is good, it's exactly what I've wanted for him. I have a blast playing up his too verbose style of speech, using vaguely ridiculous speeches whenever he takes the stage. He's also your boss and isn't afraid to act like it occasionally. This causes conflict on occasion, with an NPC willing to take the stage and the authority to enforce it. This has mixed results, more on that below.
There were a bunch of NPCs along for the Hell trip. Were there too many for your tastes?
Yeah. Rubri'Granit suffered for this, as I was focused on the wondertwins before they shuffled off this mortal coil. Sylvie and Brent suffered for this as well, and in general I felt I had too many NPCs on hand to fully focus on other things. I don't mind a person or two with you, but that was over my personal capacity and I felt many aspects of the game were hurt by it.
How have the battles been lately?
This is really a few different questions for me. I'll answer them one at a time.
How is designing monsters for me? Not bad. I've had fun choosing templates and classes to compliment characters, as well as building non LA/racial HD characters like Balyss. It's fun to get creative with it, though I find myself defaulting to fighter when I can't think of anything better. It's become my catch-all for when a particular class or template doesn't jump out. This isn't a bad thing, since fighter has good synergy with most everything in gestalt. With all those bonus feats I can go in a lot of directions to compliment a monster with fighter bonus feats, and the d10 HD extra hit points.
How is battle? Battle's been okay enough, with a few good fights amid generally average ones. Most battles have been hard, challenging the party to various degrees. There haven't been many truly vicious battles save for the Helltrip, nor have there been many walkovers. That's about where I'm aiming. Enough to where any battle has risk, but not so much that every battle should expect fatalities. I try and make battles that challenge you in different ways each time, which has been decently successful. Mostly, though I think by now it's obvious that ranged options are a good thing! There's been fliers, archers and general times where getting in close is a bad idea. If I wasn't obvious about that before, consider me now Mr. Blatantly Obvious.
Bad side? I think battle variety has suffered. Lately I've fallen into the habit of running a lot of little fights, but each fight is a bunch of the same creature type. This is easy to run but does tend to make repetitive battles. I think I need to mix each battle up a little more as well as adding some general spice to things. Now granted the last two areas haven't helped. Rubri'Granit's maze was intentionally like this, since it was basically a homage and the source material often does the same thing. Hell is Hell, and groups of the same enemy are par for the course there. Legions of bearded devils, herds of lemures, squads of erinyes, that sorta thing but on a smaller scale. Still, I do think it's been going too far.
How have you preformed in combat? Concerns about your own performance?
Most of the monsters have preformed exactly how I wanted them to. This varies in effectiveness, of course. To use a few recent ones: The Ash Elementals were dimly intelligent but well trained, focusing on one target at a time for speedy extermination! Meanwhile Dolarin was an above average Bearded Devil(Int 10), who had the good sense to provide support fire and let his minions deal with things. They weren't exceptional, but they worked to their natural capacity. Alternately, the pair of spinagon warlocks weren't so bright(Int 8), following a basic, somewhat flawed plan. They came out and zapped you, using distance to stop melee attacks. It wasn't perfect, and they paid for it, but they preformed where they should have. I'm happy with this.
NPCs have preformed mostly well. Two deserve special note here - Josa and Simmer. Simmer should have been using Deep Slumber more, but I frankly forgot she had it. Whoops. It's easy enough to play off IC, she's so focused on fire that she forgot about what natural magic she has left. She's made an effort to be useful even in an area where her powers are mostly useless. She's ran around potions, picked up a bow and generally tried to contribute! Considering her mental scores this is exactly what I expected out of her. She's not been perfect, but hey, she's tried.
On the other hand, Josa's smart but not quite so insightful or wise. He made decent prep, selecting decent but not great battle spells. Lightning Bolt is a solid choice since devils don't resist lightning, and magic missile is always good offense. On the other hand, he could have chosen somewhat better. This is okay! He has a crappy wisdom score(Wis 9). Despite him getting some flack OOC over it, I feel he performed to character. Yes, he's smart and he has a good vocabulary. He's also somewhat shortsighted and pompous, not to mention he's never dealt with devils before. Coming in perfectly loaded with Orbs of Force and whatever else isn't realistic.
Do you think the others are holding up their end of things? How about your allies? Are they useful? Any suggestions for how they continue to improve?
Now I'll talk about the PCs.
Janson: Is the damage king right now, though this will taper off fairly soon. It's a competent build and I've said so before, nothing's changed. I do think you need to bite the bullet and get Precise Shot. Yes, it's ego, swallow it and get on with your life. Dip fighter or some shit if you need to, it's not the end of the world.
Wayland: Good at what he does. Psionics have given him a few tricks, though hopefully they'll give him a ranged option soon. (Will it? I dunno offhand, feel free to chime in here Yuth.) I'm surprised I didn't see any stunning fists from him(Or anyone here, really, but that's another story) lately, but oh well. Hard to say for sure since I've never dealt with psionics before.
Andrea: Solid and competent. Charging Smite is nice, though it's just started to see use. I think you need to invest in some defense: full plate by itself doesn't keep up well much longer. Also you have Mirror Image, use it! It could've saved you pain vs that lion or in a few other battles. The only thing scarier than a charging smite paladin coming for you is a charging smite paladin with Mirror Image up coming for you.
Aaeru: Pretty good when the dice cooperate. Has a fair few options and the Spirituality feat chain has proven useful. Between that, flurry, grapple and magic you have a fair few choices. More than you like to present, though you almost always do that and always want more Cool Things. More on this later.
Any suggestions for how I run the game? Am I doing something particularly good or particularly bad?
I've touched on various ways above, so this one's redundant for me. Can I think of anything isolated.....mmm, not offhand. I probably will later, but oh well.
More alone/duo time? Less? More group stuff? Less?
After all this, some solo time for everyone feels overdue. I'd like to explore the after effects of this ordeal with all of you, there's a lot that can be said. It's been a bitch of a trip that's left no one unscathed.
Any other comments or feedback that fits nowhere else?
I'm gonna use this for meta-feedback.
Yuth: Could you try saying a little more with Wayland? It's getting to the point where he's somewhat opaque, I'd like chances to explore him more. How has the loss of his hirelings affected him? What about everything that's happened in the last few months? What about his feelings on Ilmater? I think you've slid a little too far into the quiet/stoic type simply by lack of lines versus everyone else.
Cor: First of all, you know how I talked about Josa and his spell selection being sub-optimal up there? People aren't always perfect and don't always make perfect choices. Expecting everyone to make what you feel are the optimal choices is nothing but a big old fallacy. You have a really bad habit of doing that and deriding anything that doesn't fit your OOC views there. I don't find you going on about how lame or stupid someone's choices are to be useful feedback at all. It doesn't mean you're wrong about the point. Of course Josa could have chosen better spells; I'm not arguing that. It's the way you're going about it and your expectations. People aren't perfect, nor do they always make flawless choices. Even high intellect and wisdom doesn't make someone immune to mistakes or simple bad luck. Even geniuses screw the pooch sometimes, let alone the rest of us.
Edit: Yeah, I'm aware that last paragraph comes across as adversarial. I'll be honest, you annoyed me with that and I'd been letting it simmer since then.
Nothing's really changed here, opinion-wise. We haven't really seen all that much new environment-wise that's Balmuria-related (the little split-off solo-sessions and the lunar festival pretty much) since we've been off exploring outside of it (Janson's home, fairy maze, undead temple, jumanji, puzzle dungeon, hell).
Agreed. I'd like to study the city more, I've gotten in the habit of filling in the world outside of Balmuria lately.
Hell felt like hell though, for both good and ill of that!
Yay! I worried it wasn't quite Lawful Evil enough, I wanted more signs of rigid order, but the outcast nature of things dampened that. Still, even in the wastes you saw signs of it. Packs of half dragon hellhounds, a supreme king of the hell gargoyles, Dolarin's group acting as a military unit and so on.
Josa, while it was very nice to actually see him in action and doing more stuff (given that was one of my earlier complaints), didn't really impress overall. It was little things like the magic missile thing and others that showed he's not exactly a very wise person for all his intelligence, while nice character touches also irked given the situations where he had his blonde moments. Still, he's not the only one that made some dumb/rash decisions, and in the end, he cared enough about two employees to go dive into hell for and spend a small fortune on rescuing. That's respectable.
I really would like to see him doing something cool/impressive though, something that'd make me go "Man, glad he's on our side!" or "And that's our boss for ya! Isn't he cool?", y'know? Like I said, my main gripe is that he just doesn't set out to impress.
Josa hasn't seen much combat yet. He's your boss and he's over levelled, so that's on purpose thus far. I'm okay with how he performed, but I don't disagree with your sentiment at all. If he did anything like that, he did it by putting much of his material wealth out on a long shot to save his employees. That's pretty damn stand up, as you said. His PrC should help with that concern, which I was waiting on anyway.
While team bimbo wouldn't have known about the people limit on Planar Shift, I'm surprised that neither Sylvie nor Josa did and that we'd have too many people if nobody died (or maybe they were just cynical and expected people to die along the way?).
Sylvie has no ranks in K:A, just a high int score, Jack of All Trades and inspiration points. I feel it's reasonable enough that she didn't know in light of that, though it's close. Josa? On one hand it's magic above his normal grasp, on the other I simply made a math mistake behind the scenes. <_< So IC I'm writing it off to a good faith mistake on Josa's part if it comes up, though it's not really his fault.
'Coincidently' (or some master plan? Dun dun duuuuuuuun~!), we ended up with the right number after deaths, but that could have been more awkward if even one of the NPCs that died didn't.
Yes, yes it could have. I didn't have that in mind with Croger's comments to Aaeru, though it certainly would've been thematically fitting. Aaeru martyring herself to allow the others to escape would've been an awesome send off to her. Not that I want her to die, but you know what I mean.
The decision to take Simmer along felt weird too given she doesn't have much to do when fire resistance comes up, though thankfully she found a role as the potion gal since I'd probably be dead otherwise, and Dolarin's bow made her less boring than she would otherwise have been in that whole scenario.
Otherwise though, I think we went in with the right idea of taking as many people along as we could to improve our chances. We were going to hell! We needed to take everyone we could that could help!
Agreed with Simmer and already discussed that above. Agreed with the last as well. Josa's basic logic was more people=better odds.
Hell was kinda feeling like a long RPG-grind session for exp. It's most interesting in the beginning, and while you're still at it to get to your reward, near the end you care less about the encounters and more just getting to your goal. I was starting to feel like it was dragging, so I appreciated the turn of events with the nightmares and amusement over having to control my character to do something stupid (yeah, I'm kinda masochistic like that. It's probably why Andrea keeps getting into such situations).
Andrea's lips were saying "No! No!" but surely she meant "Yes! Yes!" even as she struggled against Aaeru's embrace!
Yeah, Hell dragged near the end. I had blown my wad with encounters for awhile and the last few days were a little lighter on you than I planned. It was also because I was trying to come up with a good climax, but I kept coming up blank. I'm not thrilled with this ending either; I said something in #elysium that's relevant:
> I'll freely admit I couldn't think of a climax to it the way it ended up. If I'd planned this all out from the start I could've, but my hand was pretty weak here. I did try and spin it a bit as Hell mocking the effort and trying to enforce a meaninglessness on your heroics, which I feel is appropriate enough.
I don't think this is strictly bullshit, but at the same time, it's a small patch on the problem of having no dramatic resolution. You know when you make an argument and it's not incorrect, but it doesn't really satisfy the problem either? It's sorta like that.
I do hope to see Simmer do more than just stand there looking because she's got nothing to do when stuff's immune to fire, that's always depressing, so it was nice to see her pick up Dolarin's bow. I hope to see her doing more of that sort of thing, I guess?
Simmer's going to pick up Searing Spell with her level 5 sorcerer bonus feat, which will help alleviate this problem. For now stuff like holy water and arrows helps fill in the gaps. The plight of a mono elemental caster is a terrible one.
I don't really have complaints besides those we've already voiced over chatroom post-sessions, and you've generally taken those comments into consideration already, so don't really have much to add in that regard. I would like to see fewer sub-tables for a while though!
Noted! <_<
-Surviving NPC cast
Nothing's really changed re: Sylvie, I feel. Josa has both earned my loyalty and lost my faith in his competence, which should be interesting enough in the longer run. Simmer... kinda feels off. Unlike with others, I don't really feel she has her own voice, but is more a vessel for you to speak, if that makes sense. Doesn't really matter to me either way. Kinda hoped to chat with Rubri but I suppose it wasn't in the cards.
-Too many NPCs?
On the one hand, I wouldn't have taken Brent. I wasn't around when Merc had that scene, and I didn't really see the use of another person along. That's really why I was trying to ask anyone (Josa, Sylvie, Croger) for help and information, but wasn't recruiting anyone. I also seriously wondered, even with Bimbo IQ (tm), just what the hell Simmer was doing there. On the other hand, I can't really say it was too many NPCs for my tastes or anything.
-Battles
Repetition isn't particularly fun. When you can call your recent combats 'grinding' you're probably straying off the path. Encounters can also be filled with delicious interaction, so defaulting to combat can disappoint. And that whole mindset of 'don't stab first, ask questions later' gets eroded when everything really is trying to openly kill you. I know, Hell, etc. I kinda hoped Hell would have some denizens who are smarter than that? What else... fighting enemies represented by a letter and a number isn't particularly fun. I realize why it happens, but I can't help but try to get past it quickly when it happens often and repeatedly. There was genuine confusion on my part since Josa killed S1 but S1 was in init after S2 and really, they didn't even speak or have anything to separate them from one another.
On a personal level, I just don't feel heroic fighting weak creatures or fauna/flora. It's quite possible I don't like the lower levels combat options, although I didn't feel any particular shame about fighting a human even earlier on. Maybe it's the perception of monsters at our CR that just prevents me from acknowledging them as worthy opponents, while people are a whole different threat.
-Performance in battle and concerns
My concern is that I'm currently lacking in one true panic button option. Fire and Critical Strike are situational, and Holy Power is highly situational. My grapple is only good if I set it up with magic, do remember, and if we get ambushed I would very rarely spend a round of combat on that sort of prep. That goes into my assessment of the options before me, and so it bothers me. Spells-wise, I haven't really hit into the good alternatives just yet. I have combat support and utility spells, but not anything remotely like a reliable alternate option (I don't even have MM!). Yes, Glitterdust. Yes, it never worked for me when I used it.
If I've been pushing you with questions on whether we level, it's because the next three levels are _really good_ for me. I will get arcane strike which lets me transcend my issue with not bypassing special DR (which I likely never will), I will get some new spells to broaden my options, and I might raise my AC with a feat (my AC otherwise giving me a lot of concern).
I don't mean to imply I'm weak. I'm just saying that right now, I basically hope one of my situational options applies, since without them I have a basic flurry that doesn't really bypass dr or does enough damage to make it count. The fight with the valkyrie really showed me what my limits are, and that issue hasn't been fixed yet. It puts a sort of pressure on me, a worry that the next fight I'll be totally useless where it counts. Take Seira's frustration at always coming across enemies you can't SA, multiply by a dozen.
-Allies
Janson and Andrea seem solid? Wayland doesn't really speak or use his combat options, which feels a bit weird to me.
-Suggestions
I often say it, but that's because it's true? Interactions are golden. I like them! I think everyone likes them. We could get to the point where we have too much of them, but I don't think we're there yet. It can spice up an encounter, it can give us new friends or recurring enemies or even nice combat banter. It can let us define ourselves better, or explore parts of ourselves. Naturally, even outside of combat, I'd like to have more of them. And naturally, with people who aren't forgettable, since the idea is to have fun!
Commenting on Merc's post and Dune's responses to it~
-Hell did feel like Hell. To me, the good and the bad divided between character and player. Aaeru certainly feels good with herself over how she measured up and due to the success of their rescue mission (heroic sacrifices midway through and losing material possessions don't particularly clash with her point of view). I started feeling bad somewhere through it as random encounters kept on showing me time and again just how insignificant we are. It's easy enough to ignore normally, but not when you're confronted with it all the time, and it doesn't feel very heroic.
-Agreement on Josa. I'll just add that what actually bothered me out of Josa's quirks rather than making me roll my eyes is the way he kept on thrusting us into cutscenes. Combined with the grinding, it felt too much like a different sort of game. This isn't actually a complaint about 'We're PCs! We're the ones who should do things, not NPCs!'. I'm totally cool with letting our boss handle things. It was more that we were left standing there to cheerlead for him, and not RPing things can be kinda boring? If we could just talk amongst ourselves and 'contribute' to the scene that way while Josa handles the negotiations, it would've been cool, but he was shooting that down and the other NPCs weren't really biting on that.
-Plane Shift and the other key Hell-related knowledge. This part bothered me a lot. It's one thing if Josa just knows enough about the spell to tell that it crosses planes, but not about the limit (although it would be ironic and kinda funny since he railed at Janson for not knowing how Sending works). It's even okay that he had a suboptimal spell choice. My complaint about his sucky spells was born of frustration as he was consistently striking out and the rest of us were dropping, one every other round. It wasn't really serious. I could see how he goes to Stronger's shop or a temple and asks for some scrolls to help mount a rescue to Hell, and the topic of getting the right sort of spells in prep would come up, but it's not like it HAD to happen this way. I would like to separate this from criticism of things that really shouldn't have happened, idealism or blondeness or what. A bag of holding stuffed with food and drink, but only two healing potions? And those only by Simmer? It felt more like artificially making things harder for us rather than any poor IC decision. Or how about explicitely holding a discussion with Josa and Sylvie (with Andrea and Simmer present), and then with Croger? We learned what hurts devils and what doesn't. But in the end, no one actually took anything to bypass DR? Sure, last moment prep and all, but I recall Wayland grabbing silver gloves to deal with the werewolf situation without any particular issue or too great an expense, and Andrea borrowed a silver sword at the time. Due to this precedent existing, I just felt cheated that I tried to set up prep that was for the benefit of those who can use material objects, but it was largely ignored, even by the very people who lectured me on what one should bring over. The whole uniqueness of our party was that we were going on a rescue mission as opposed to being tossed into Hell without any prep, but scroll of Plane Shift aside and the food/water, it fell slightly short on that front. Like, why is Simmer going? She wants to be with us and can take the fireballs from the sky? That's cool, I get it... why not borrow Andrea's silver sword so you can do something? She only ever got the bow by accident, due to me telling her to grab it OOC to _do something_. If she hadn't done that, she probably would've spent the entire trip just standing there, her potions spent the very first battle.
To summarize, there were many different, small complaints, as one might expect. Some were just blowing off steam or wishful thinking. But I felt that there were also serious ones, and it's a bit disappointing to have them all clumped together and then summarily dismissed as nonoptimal choices. How about Croger? I discussed our plan with him. He knew exactly what we were doing and how. He's a cleric so he should have decent wis (since you used wis9 to point out Josa's bad choices). It never occured to him that we would be over the spell's limit? From chatting to you, I understood that he actually had Plane Shift so it's not even over his level. Planning is fun because it gives more options than the default "Charge~!", but only if you feel like it's getting used.
How do you feel the gameworld has been represented so far? The focus is Balmuria and the surrounding areas, how do you feel the flavor of them has been?
Balmuria I think could use a little more atmosphere. We generally just traipse between Whimsical Sweets, various taverns, and various temples, but there's not so much indication of the flavour of the neighbourhoods around where we're going or on the way.
Also, Balmuria feels kinda sanitised and safe. I've mentioned this before, but between the mythal and the hordes of highly skilled guards and the general good mindset of the people, it just feels a bit whitewashed. This is a valid feel for a city, but I'd prefer an environment with more shadows and dirt, y'know?
What do you think of the surviving NPC cast? Feel free to be as specific or as broad as you wish.
Josa gets much props for going to Hell on our behalf rather than staying behind where it's safe, it counts for a lot and I'll forgive his pomposity and poor negotiating skills for it (speaking of? When Josa said he'd handle negotiations with the gargoyles, someone really should have remembered all those jobs he's sent us on for 25gp between us.
Even though Janson and Sylvie are ostensibly dating, I haven't seen much from her lately, and I'm pretty bummed that the Hell ending robbed any joy from a reunion I'd thought would be quite passionate.
I do like that our friendly NPCs are pretty flawed people - Josa's a windbag, Sylvie's greedy and manipulative, Silver's mean and vicious. It highlights their loyalty and friendship all the more, and makes them more realistic as people.
Simmer's single-minded focus on all fire all the time is getting a bit tiresome. She really needs a hobby or something to broaden her horizons. She's still fun to interact with and play off her naivete and pyromania - it would be nice to see a bit more fish out of water (for all she'd loathe the term) situations with her, given her sum total life experience for who knows how many decades is hanging out by one tree.
There were a bunch of NPCs along for the Hell trip. Were there too many for your tastes?
I wasn't playing in the rescue team, but I felt having NPCs outnumber PCs two to one was a bit excessive there. I was kinda glad Noel and Branna died on our end.
How have the battles been lately?
Hell was very brutal, but our wins there were satisfying for it. The puzzle dungeon was kinda lukewarm - I most remember the eye monster getting played up as a super deadly threat to melee with in PM, but then everyone charged it and kicked its ass without any injury, which kinda took away from that. Smaller numbers of more distinct and potent enemies is better than hordes of faceless mooks, but both do have their place, and the mook hordes work well for people with area attacks so we shouldn't dispense with them completely.
How have you preformed in combat? Concerns about your own performance?
Kinda meh. Spiderclimb and eldritch blasts mean pretty good survivability against most non-flying foes unless we're fighting on vast empty plains (don't do that by the way, interactive environments make for far more interesting battles), but even with touch attacks and even before the -4 shooting into melee penalty, I've still got pretty shit odds of actually hitting anything, and none of my other invocations are any use in combat.
Do you think the others are holding up their end of things? How about your allies? Are they useful? Any suggestions for how they continue to improve?
I'll be very happy when Aaeru finds something to do other than grappling, since it makes fights tremendously boring for me. Wayland could do with using stunning fist more, I dunno about his other psychic powers if they're much help. Andrea not using mirror image once in hell is criminal.
Simmer really ought to get a ranged or finesseable weapon. Sylvie should get some nunchuks or something, if only because having three dudes running around flurrying punches is godawfully boring.
Any suggestions for how I run the game? Am I doing something particularly good or particularly bad?
I dunno how much the d100s are true random encounters and how much is you just making us worry before running whatever you had prepped regardless, but more detailed scripted encounters would be better than having a random chance of a dozen random enemies tossed at us on an open field.
More alone/duo time? Less? More group stuff? Less?
The balance right now is fine, it's easier to do character-driven stuff on the side alone/with one or two PCs rather than in a normal session because focusing on one PC when the others are all there as well is kinda meh for all concerned, but that stuff's always going to be seasoning compared to the meat of getting everyone together and driving adventures forward.
Nothing's really changed re: Sylvie, I feel. Josa has both earned my loyalty and lost my faith in his competence, which should be interesting enough in the longer run. Simmer... kinda feels off. Unlike with others, I don't really feel she has her own voice, but is more a vessel for you to speak, if that makes sense. Doesn't really matter to me either way. Kinda hoped to chat with Rubri but I suppose it wasn't in the cards.
Simmer's voice is basically light and irrelevant lately, if that helps you at all. As for Rubri'Granit, if you want to talk to him we can fit that in soon.
Repetition isn't particularly fun. When you can call your recent combats 'grinding' you're probably straying off the path.
To be fair, I don't think the combats were precisely a grind. I think the overall situation was, with being in Hell. It's a fine distinction but one that needs to be made. I liked the large majority of the Hell combats overall.
Encounters can also be filled with delicious interaction, so defaulting to combat can disappoint. And that whole mindset of 'don't stab first, ask questions later' gets eroded when everything really is trying to openly kill you. I know, Hell, etc. I kinda hoped Hell would have some denizens who are smarter than that?
To the underlying point, agreed. Interactions are good. Nothing but homicidal nuts isn't very good, you know?
To this particular surface point? Amazingly, creature are intelligent even when they don't play to your presumptions! It's Hell in a place full of desperate outcasts. Of course it's going to be fucking violent. Even then, Dolarin and the gargoyles both attempted to parley first. The former didn't work out since Josa's dice sucked and the latter extorted you. Considering that the gargolyes got money for nothing, I'd say they're plenty smart. Really, I take issue with this entire statement since it's flat out wrong.
On a personal level, I just don't feel heroic fighting weak creatures or fauna/flora. It's quite possible I don't like the lower levels combat options, although I didn't feel any particular shame about fighting a human even earlier on. Maybe it's the perception of monsters at our CR that just prevents me from acknowledging them as worthy opponents, while people are a whole different threat.
I think it's a complex medley of reasons for you. This isn't strictly a Balmuria obervation as much as a personal observation, so don't entirely correlate this to Aaeru. I think that you always want more options and more things to try. Casters suit you for this, as do higher levels since you have more options then. Second of all, hard, gritty battles don't suit your tastes. I usually peg you as wanting foes who can compete, but aren't really at the PC's power level. To take a really bad analogy, you want a SSJ Vegeta enemy to a SSJ2 Goku PC. On the flip side, I'm unafraid to give you bad guys that are stronger than you, to give you harder battles and force you to rise to the occasion. Third of all, I think there's a certain otherness to monsters. To take something you said, a mosquito with 20 class levels is still just a mosquito. They're still never going to be on the level of a proper opponent as far as you're concerned. To you, fighting goblins, bears and all that just isn't interesting compared to more exotic fare.
No, I don't really have a conclusion to draw from that, just sayin'.
My concern is that I'm currently lacking in one true panic button option. Fire and Critical Strike are situational, and Holy Power is highly situational. My grapple is only good if I set it up with magic, do remember, and if we get ambushed I would very rarely spend a round of combat on that sort of prep. That goes into my assessment of the options before me, and so it bothers me. Spells-wise, I haven't really hit into the good alternatives just yet. I have combat support and utility spells, but not anything remotely like a reliable alternate option (I don't even have MM!). Yes, Glitterdust. Yes, it never worked for me when I used it.
You're a sorcerer. It'll work itself out, trust me. Okay, that's a shitty and glib answer, but it's true. Remember how Alicia's magic started crummy and got better as the game went on? It's the same paradigm at work, you'll get more options as you go on.
If I've been pushing you with questions on whether we level, it's because the next three levels are _really good_ for me. I will get arcane strike which lets me transcend my issue with not bypassing special DR (which I likely never will), I will get some new spells to broaden my options, and I might raise my AC with a feat (my AC otherwise giving me a lot of concern).
Nah, it's fine to ask if you're leveling up. I said it in chat last night and I'll repeat it here: You guys are leveling up soon. Not quite yet but soon, so get your ducks in a row for that ahead of time.
-Hell did feel like Hell. To me, the good and the bad divided between character and player. Aaeru certainly feels good with herself over how she measured up and due to the success of their rescue mission (heroic sacrifices midway through and losing material possessions don't particularly clash with her point of view). I started feeling bad somewhere through it as random encounters kept on showing me time and again just how insignificant we are. It's easy enough to ignore normally, but not when you're confronted with it all the time, and it doesn't feel very heroic.
OOCwise I'm okay with this. You know how Fascism wants you to feel tiny and insignificant compared to the state? Hell has the exact same philosophy. You're not a hero, you're a fool who scraped by through pure luck against the true majesty of Baator. A certain player intimidation is part of being in Hell. If you fuck up and the full weight of Baator comes down on you, you're beyond fucked. Does this make it better? Eh. That one's open to a loooot of interpretation.
-Plane Shift and the other key Hell-related knowledge. This part bothered me a lot. It's one thing if Josa just knows enough about the spell to tell that it crosses planes, but not about the limit (although it would be ironic and kinda funny since he railed at Janson for not knowing how Sending works).
Yes, I'm fully aware of the irony of what Josa did there. That was on purpose. <_< Anyway!
It's even okay that he had a suboptimal spell choice. My complaint about his sucky spells was born of frustration as he was consistently striking out and the rest of us were dropping, one every other round. It wasn't really serious. I could see how he goes to Stronger's shop or a temple and asks for some scrolls to help mount a rescue to Hell, and the topic of getting the right sort of spells in prep would come up, but it's not like it HAD to happen this way. I would like to separate this from criticism of things that really shouldn't have happened, idealism or blondeness or what. A bag of holding stuffed with food and drink, but only two healing potions? And those only by Simmer? It felt more like artificially making things harder for us rather than any poor IC decision.
Those healing potions were what he had in stock when this happened. He didn't have time to brew up any more before you went off into Hell, nor did he have the funds to purchase extra standard potions. Before now you guys had minimal need for healing and weren't even cleaning out the supply closet. He had no reason to make a big reserve of Healing Nectars.
Or how about explicitely holding a discussion with Josa and Sylvie (with Andrea and Simmer present), and then with Croger? We learned what hurts devils and what doesn't. But in the end, no one actually took anything to bypass DR? Sure, last moment prep and all, but I recall Wayland grabbing silver gloves to deal with the werewolf situation without any particular issue or too great an expense, and Andrea borrowed a silver sword at the time. Due to this precedent existing, I just felt cheated that I tried to set up prep that was for the benefit of those who can use material objects, but it was largely ignored, even by the very people who lectured me on what one should bring over.
The only one who really needed to get DR bypassing was Sylvie. She couldn't afford anything good, so that left silver. She could have gotten gloves, I suppose.
The whole uniqueness of our party was that we were going on a rescue mission as opposed to being tossed into Hell without any prep, but scroll of Plane Shift aside and the food/water, it fell slightly short on that front. Like, why is Simmer going? She wants to be with us and can take the fireballs from the sky? That's cool, I get it... why not borrow Andrea's silver sword so you can do something? She only ever got the bow by accident, due to me telling her to grab it OOC to _do something_. If she hadn't done that, she probably would've spent the entire trip just standing there, her potions spent the very first battle.
As I said before, her idea was to find ways to be useful once there. She used her magic, that bow, carried potions and brought along holy water. Like hell if she was going into melee with 19 HP, though.
To summarize, there were many different, small complaints, as one might expect. Some were just blowing off steam or wishful thinking. But I felt that there were also serious ones, and it's a bit disappointing to have them all clumped together and then summarily dismissed as nonoptimal choices. How about Croger? I discussed our plan with him. He knew exactly what we were doing and how. He's a cleric so he should have decent wis (since you used wis9 to point out Josa's bad choices). It never occured to him that we would be over the spell's limit? From chatting to you, I understood that he actually had Plane Shift so it's not even over his level. Planning is fun because it gives more options than the default "Charge~!", but only if you feel like it's getting used.
NPCs aren't there to shore up every possible mistake, nor did it happen to cross Croger's mind that you'd be coming back with too many people. So no, it didn't occur to him.
Balmuria I think could use a little more atmosphere. We generally just traipse between Whimsical Sweets, various taverns, and various temples, but there's not so much indication of the flavour of the neighbourhoods around where we're going or on the way.
Agreed.
Josa gets much props for going to Hell on our behalf rather than staying behind where it's safe, it counts for a lot and I'll forgive his pomposity and poor negotiating skills for it (speaking of? When Josa said he'd handle negotiations with the gargoyles, someone really should have remembered all those jobs he's sent us on for 25gp between us.
Yes, yes someone should have. Amusingly he was about right - the figure I had for a successful bribe was 1200 GP and up. This doesn't exonerate him, just sayin'.
Even though Janson and Sylvie are ostensibly dating, I haven't seen much from her lately, and I'm pretty bummed that the Hell ending robbed any joy from a reunion I'd thought would be quite passionate.
Yeah, she's been pretty quiet this entire trip. That'll change soon, I've just had too much going on to play her snarkiness.
I do like that our friendly NPCs are pretty flawed people - Josa's a windbag, Sylvie's greedy and manipulative, Silver's mean and vicious. It highlights their loyalty and friendship all the more, and makes them more realistic as people.
Yes, that's what I'm aiming for.
Simmer's single-minded focus on all fire all the time is getting a bit tiresome. She really needs a hobby or something to broaden her horizons. She's still fun to interact with and play off her naivete and pyromania - it would be nice to see a bit more fish out of water (for all she'd loathe the term) situations with her, given her sum total life experience for who knows how many decades is hanging out by one tree.
Fair enough, I'll consider it.
Hell was very brutal, but our wins there were satisfying for it. The puzzle dungeon was kinda lukewarm - I most remember the eye monster getting played up as a super deadly threat to melee with in PM, but then everyone charged it and kicked its ass without any injury, which kinda took away from that. Smaller numbers of more distinct and potent enemies is better than hordes of faceless mooks, but both do have their place, and the mook hordes work well for people with area attacks so we shouldn't dispense with them completely.
With how this party has various means of debilitation I find single big enemies to be a risk at best. Stunning Fist, Grapple, Glitterdust...and I get bitched at if they're immune or better than the PCs at it. So it's always juggling this and that and trying to make various fights stand out.
I'll be very happy when Aaeru finds something to do other than grappling, since it makes fights tremendously boring for me. Wayland could do with using stunning fist more, I dunno about his other psychic powers if they're much help. Andrea not using mirror image once in hell is criminal.
Agreed with Andrea and already discussed. Wayland I agree with, though his psi stuff right now is mostly boosters.
Simmer really ought to get a ranged or finesseable weapon. Sylvie should get some nunchuks or something, if only because having three dudes running around flurrying punches is godawfully boring.
That's a thought on the weapons for both of them.
I dunno how much the d100s are true random encounters and how much is you just making us worry before running whatever you had prepped regardless, but more detailed scripted encounters would be better than having a random chance of a dozen random enemies tossed at us on an open field.
Some of column A, some of column B.
My prep was always frantic behind the scenes for this, since there was so much of it. Dolarin was scripted for example, while the glaive guy wasn't.
-Could be fun to talk to a hardcore dwarf.
-You took issues with my claim, but you eliminated important context while doing so. I think you got offended because you read it wrong. If you glance at the sentence preceding it, I'm talking about everything openly wanting to kill you. It's somewhat jarring, since coming from Prime, we would have all these ideas about devils working behind the scenes and tempting people and all that. It's what religious sermons would warn against, too, more than the direct 'devils are scary in battle and will try to kill you'. So it really surprised me that devils had far better PR on Prime than they deserve. I think the saying about catching more flies with honey than vinegar often gets the point across, and while I can see how it wouldn't be for everybody, it really surprised me that it was for nobody that we came across (I can only talk about personal experiences, not about what the other group saw). Even the ones who talked first were clearly and unashamedly threatening us with imminent violence from the start, which naturally put us against them, and I was just saddened that it was all the types we came across.
-On combat, I think you oversimplified it. I don't really want to get too deeply into this, so I'll just offer this one correction. It's not just the exotic. I can also see 'pc races' as worthy adversaries. You know, I can envision an elf growing up all cool and unique and being powerful enough to be a worthy opponent. And while D&D would allow a housecat to take on a bunch of fighter levels to be the same mechanical threat level, I just can't consider it a worthy opponent. Coming back around to the exotic, if it's some awakened housecat, now we're talking again!
-I know it'll work out eventually since I'm a mage. I'm not particularly troubled over my build. I was talking about not having good options right now, in this given moment in time. I worry over having situational stuff, and in fact all of my cool stuff is that way. My magic is subpar right now, with only a single lvl2 spell that never works (I actually took it to round out Janson's see invis so that we could work together and negate the advantage of any invisible enemies, since I expected you to run enemies with high saves; which you consistently do, even if you try not to). I don't need to think back to Alicia, Seira's own magic started out fairly shaky.
-The obligatory response here would be to ask if you would enjoy playing two weeks of Fascism: the D&D. >_> In all seriousness, it's a complex issue, since on the one hand it feels authentic and I can't fault that, but on the other that very authenticity eventually becomes a drain on player enjoyment, yeah?
-I have to disagree on prep once more, where it comes to bypassing DR. I don't know what Josa or Brent used, but Andrea's feather clearly didn't bypass devil dr, Sylvie you mentioned yourself, and Simmer should have started out with a crappy non-masterwork bow to begin with. >_> There was no real reason to wait to see what one can do until already in Hell.
Guess I should get my lazy ass on this.
How do you feel the gameworld has been represented so far? The focus is Balmuria and the surrounding areas, how do you feel the flavor of them has been?
Personally, I'm waiting for a proper city chase scene. (One where you can hear the Wockitcha-Wockitcha 70's style chase music in your head) But that's just me. :)
What do you think of the surviving NPC cast? Feel free to be as specific or as broad as you wish.
I hate Silver less on a weekly basis. Simmer is amusing. Josa's segues into flowery speech are Kuno-esque, but not annoying.
There were a bunch of NPCs along for the Hell trip. Were there too many for your tastes?
Nope, it was suitably hellish, with just the right amount of death-induced terror.
How have the battles been lately?
Delicious.
How have you preformed in combat? Concerns about your own performance?
Hatbot seems to have a thing for me. Not a good thing, either.
Do you think the others are holding up their end of things? How about your allies? Are they useful? Any suggestions for how they continue to improve?
My allies are more than adequate. Enjoyable, even. Our diversity is what makes us great.
Any suggestions for how I run the game? Am I doing something particularly good or particularly bad?
Nope, yer good.
More alone/duo time? Less? More group stuff? Less?
I'm always up for anything. I'm always having fun.
Any other comments or feedback that fits nowhere else?
Nothing here.
Quote from: Yuthirin on March 29, 2011, 02:40:46 AMPersonally, I'm waiting for a proper city chase scene. (One where you can hear the Wockitcha-Wockitcha 70's style chase music in your head) But that's just me. :)
I've actually had this as a possibility in my notes once or twice, but it's never come to bear. It's a shame, since with all the monks and boosted movement speed types in the party, you guys would dominate chases.
QuoteHatbot seems to have a thing for me. Not a good thing, either.
You and Andrea both lately. Catching a 30something critical hit arrow to the chest is not cool, nor is blowing an easy reflex save on shocker lizard terror.
Quote from: YuthirinOur diversity is what makes us great.
2 Monks
2 Paladins
2 Human Paragons
Diverse is not a word I'd use for this party.
Called dibs on paladin and human paragon first! Honest, check #e logs!
Quote from: Ebiris on March 29, 2011, 08:26:34 AM
Quote from: YuthirinOur diversity is what makes us great.
2 Monks
2 Paladins
2 Human Paragons
Diverse is not a word I'd use for this party.
To be fair, the party members work differently despite class overlap...except for a lot of kung fu fighting. Andrea sings and smites, Aaeru pins and prestidigates, Janson skirmishes and shoots, and Wayland punches and psionics. With gestalt some class overlap is inevitable, and it doesn't help that Sylvie's gimmick is to copy you guys.
Merc is a filthy copycat! Down with Merc!
(Balmuria 1 had two paladins and two arcane casters. Anyway, I really think it's more how you use what you have than what the mechanical build is. It's also why I don't care one bit if Sylvie punches or kicks or uses nunchaku, it's all the same and depends on desc)
Yuth is more of a copycat than me! Monks have more overlap than paladins! =p
And I was planning to do paragon from the start, even had it in my sheet notes. =p
Is this a bad time to say Sylvie would take human paragon except it's played out?
Decided to put this here. Dune and I were talking about the VoP and while we have our disagreements, there is something important we agree on there. It's clumsy, for lack of better word. In a vacuum, many of the issues could be avoided by taking on a minimalist approach and always coming down on the side of 'no' whenever I wonder if the Vow allows me anything. Playing with other people, however, that would probably ruin everyone's experience and my own. At the time we were offered a steady, paying job, my first reaction was that I must refuse to be truthful to the Vow. But then, where would we be? Since Dune knew about the Vow and still set us up that way, I ended up deciding that certain devitation is okay for the sake of making it a fun game.
Now, I'm thinking of changing the way it works to streamline things. I can identify several issues from experience with the VoP in Balmuria so far. First, it can benefit from a clearer definition that is broken down into several smaller rules/commandments one follows, than a large and all-encompassing ban (and its list of tax evasions). Second, whenever the line is being towed, it leads to awkwardness. Like paladin codes of conduct, the Vows are very much an all or nothing deal, but maybe they shouldn't be for genuine mistakes. I think it could benefit from a clause that expresses disapproval with a minor transgression that didn't happen in bad faith rather than force Dune to wonder each time if it was minor or not and force me to rebuild my entire character over it. Third, the few exceptions the Vow has are really irksome thematically, and while I can understand why they exist, I don't really like them. So I think I can open the Vow a bit more under some circumstances, close it up a bit under others and add penalties. Here is how I think it can work.
Vow of Poverty
Constantly:
-You may not own or use any masterwork of magical items (including one-use items).
-You may not benefit from masterwork items or magical items (including one-use items), even if another uses them for you.
-You may only own or use simple weapons.
-You may not have money or gather possessions in lieu of money.
-You may not benefit personally, directly or indirectly, from your job. Contributions to your charities do not constitute a benefit to you unless the charity in question gives you material aid in turn.
While working:
-You may engage in commerce on behalf of your workplace or client in the area of negotiation of fees, haggling and similiar activities. This may still not benefit you directly in any way.
-You may engage in advertising on behalf of your workplace or client.
Penalties:
-If you benefit directly from another person's actions or benefit indirectly from your own, all the benefits of the Vow are suspended for 24 hours.
-If you inadvertantly break the Vow due to no fault of your own, given the facts available to you at the time, all the benefits of the Vow are suspended for 24 hours.
* Why 24 hours? Reattunement. Pretty sure Pathfinder uses it for stat boosters you wear. Could be a week like the Ring of Sustenance, I suppose, but I just don't like 1/week things.
* Why the changes? To make the game play more smoothly. Why is getting something our boss/client pays for totally okay when Andrea is there to supply the cash, but iffy when she isn't around? Both times it's essentially my lead, and in both cases our client should reimburse Whimsical Sweets for the money, and the difference is sophistry. So why not do away with it?
* Why can't I get potions fed to me? Because it feels really abusable, with me implicitely asking people to have things for me to get around the 'I can't have things' ban. This way, I can still be fed a healing potion if I'm bleeding out to death, since a temporary loss of powers is better than dying, but I can't really just 'borrow' a potion helpfully-provided by someone if I get hit once in combat. I think it should sufficiently pay back for the allowances made.
* What about exceptions? Well, I figure they can exist. In a clear and present danger to a rich client, where you are hired to act as a body double to trick assassins, is it alright to refuse to wear the client's jewelry to pose as her? I don't think it should, given the Vow is an Exalted one. But if and when they happen, they can be penalized all the same, and the ruleset can be expanded.
I'll look at this in the morning. Saying so that you know I at least saw the post.
I've made no secret of hating Vow of Poverty with a fiery passion, so personally I approve of the more clear and concise version you've outlined. The provisos seem straightforward and easy enough to make calls on when they come up, and the 'lose powers for 24 hours for a minor infraction' bit works well considering the precedent of that happening to druids if they do something like wear metal armour, and lets it be considered more thoughtfully than the big huge 'you lose all abilities forever including the feat you spent on taking VoP which you can't ever retrain. Fuck you!' sanction.
As a suggestion for clarity, I'd add alchemical items to the first two bullet points.
That's all fine. Go ahead and add alchemical items, that's a useful clarification.
I'm gonna go ahead and give each of you some feedback. It beats me posting a bunch of questions right now, I think.
Veserya
You're first since you're new and thus should be the shortest. I'm enjoying Veserya right now, her personality meshes into the group well. She particularly resonated with Marianne, the shared haughty noble routine makes for a strong base of interactions. No real comments otherwise right now.
Arachiel
I think Arachiel's going better than Orval was. I feel like you have a distinct voice to play with and you're improving. This is good! Arachiel's brand new and has a lot of easy things to riff off of. On the other hand, I think you'd be best served to avoid lines like this:
<Arachiel> "Okay!"
I've found that lines that hold only dialogue tend to read weaker in RP than lines with a little more meat to them. You don't need a mountain of description with each line, but a little bit helps frame what you're doing and add flavor.
Are you on a tablet sometimes, or a phone? Is this an impact?
Whurric
I feel like you're floundering a bit lately. You've had less lines since Orval got creamed and it's felt like you've been struggling to re-establish your character since then. Is this true? If it is, I think you need to spend some time fleshing out Whurric in your mind and generally adding more to him. Make it flow easier, yeah?
I've had Yuria around to give you a foil to work with. Do you think that's working well for you?
Aaeru
I feel like you're really clingy about Neveril. I suppose you're compensating for me forgetting about her occasionally? I'm all well and good with you having a relationship with another PC or an NPC, but it almost feels like MY GIRLFRIEND territory. I do feel some of it is that Neveril was handed to me instead of being developed organically. I don't think I'm going to allow pre-existing relationships like that in future. I feel awkward sometimes because there's stuff going on there that I'm just guessing about. I've been flip-flopping a lot on if this is an impact since I wasn't sure, but a few things lately have made up my mind about it.
You're interacting well with NPCs. I like how you get along with Marianne and Yuria, even if the latter's been co-opted lately by her chase for Whurric's co-er, attention.
Josa
You're one dimensional. This isn't entirely a bad thing. Yuria's one dimensional too and it works. Your gimmick works as far as it goes, it just doesn't go as far as Yuria's. Plus your natural situation and disposition has you a bit more aloof from the others. At the same time, your excessive verbiage effectively deflects attention because people see that and tune out Josa being Josa.
Silver's a whole other mess. Have you ever considered bitch smacking her? Sometimes a man has to be a man.
Sylvie
I hope you're doing well, wherever you are right now. If you end up coming back we'll see how you're doing then, okay? I know it's not fair, but life is life.
Neveril
I talked about you back in Aaeru's section so go read that first. I think a lot of the problem is that you're external rather than internal. PCs are external and do things to get my attention. NPCs are internal and I do things for them to get attention. Do you see where the problem is? I think continuing to grow and going native will solve your problems eventually. Stick with it. Most of this isn't really your fault.
Balyss
Party hard!
You're a lot of fun, bu t at the same time you're still fuzzy around the edges. I think you need more screen time, but on the other hand you're not likely to join Whimsical Sweets as it stands. I really enjoy you being a loose homage to a bunch of things, plus the Sailor Moon references always make me giggle. I wonder if you would've been Usagi if you were born in that universe? Makes you think, doesn't it? Just focus on firming up your image.
Marianne
You know what? I was about ready to write you off a little while ago. The party didn't like you and you didn't have much reason to like them. Then you just clicked. The noblewoman thing sharpened and you started getting along with Aaeru and then Veserya. In a few weeks you've strongly overhauled your image and personality. I'm surprised it's happened so fast, but you've clicked. Just keep on doing what you're doing right now and tone down the bitchy elements.
Lyris
I feel like your fortunes have waned whilst Marianne's have waxed. You get along well with Arachiel and seem to enjoy having her around to subtly manipulate. I think it's a small miracle that you didn't try and get her laid at the beach party, but just as well it didn't happen. You're down to earth, curt and business like, a natural foil to Marianne. Try to be a little more sociable - I know you were hoping on Janson and thinking about stealing him away from Sylvie(Yes seriously, she sorta liked him and would be willing to try), but that's no excuse.
Yuria
Yes, you're a gimmick. I still love you. Maybe I'm easily amused, but you constantly make me grin. I've wanted to play a super stereotyped blonde for a good long time and you've delivered. Just try and keep being funny.
Yes, the NPC feedbacks are purely whimsy. Shame on you if you couldn't figure that out until now.
Quote from: Anastasia on July 31, 2011, 09:04:33 PMWhurric
I feel like you're floundering a bit lately. You've had less lines since Orval got creamed and it's felt like you've been struggling to re-establish your character since then. Is this true? If it is, I think you need to spend some time fleshing out Whurric in your mind and generally adding more to him. Make it flow easier, yeah?
I've had Yuria around to give you a foil to work with. Do you think that's working well for you?
Well, to be fair, it's not just Orval dying, but also Janson, and Janson's really one of the characters Whurric most interacted with, even more than his brother at that.
I've never really had a chance to interact with Aaeru, every single time we somehow either miss each other or we go on different jobs. The only time we ever really interacted was a few minutes looking at job boards or during the Senaril thing (and I still interacted with Janson more then). Veserya, I've pretty much just met. Archie I interact with a bit when she's around, but she's starting to form bonds elsewhere. NPCs...not a single one of them except for Yuria and Josa have I had a chance to really interact with, same as with Aaeru.
So it is a -little- hard to get more involved. I'd kind of either want one large group job to come up, or something where I'm split up with someone I've never interacted with. Everyone I ever grouped up with is dead, or is Yuria/Josa. I get along alright with Josa, we do seem to have something of an easy camaraderie going on (although he's meddlesome with regards to Yuria!).
As for Yuria, and her being a foil...well, while I certainly like her, and I don't mind a relationship with her, she's honestly fun to interact with, but at the same time I...kinda feel uncomfortable as a player whenever she's very clingy or hinting towards something perverted? Yeah, I'm not exactly a prude, I'm not about to claim otherwise, but it still feels weird/awkward to RP around that? Not only that, but it kinda does push for us to leave the rest of the group and do something else, so again, not a lot of chance to develop other sides of the character either.
I'd rather get some opportunities to do stuff with new dance partners if you really want to try and bring more aspects of Whurric out, honestly.
Stuff going on you're guessing about? Like...?
Anyway, yes, it's unfun when you keep on forgetting or excluding her, I said as such before. I'd love to have things work out, but I'm not really sure what I can do on my part to help, and while you said you finally made up your mind I'm not really sure what you mean by that either. Hint?
-Lyris. I still like her just fine, but she's really really crude. All the time, in every scene.
I miss Janson, not least because his absence cut down opportunities to interact with certain NPCs, but I also enjoy Veserya and she gets on with NPCs that Janson barely interacted with, so overall I can call it a wash.
Echoing the sentiments about Lyris's crudity, though. She started off really cool with the whole unapproachable mystique and the cold professional demeanour, but it seems like as soon as we got to know the 'real' her she went balls to the wall maneating drunkard. I kinda miss the facade.
Janson. :(
Even if Sylvie rescues him, it's just not the same....
I miss Janson too. :(
As for Archie's dialogue, I am occasionally on a tablet, and rarely on a phone. This will increase if I am able to play from work. I don't really expect that, though. I'm basically being handed an office manager's position without the title, authority, or pay. Just the work. September will be better. I'm really enjoying her and hope to be able to continue on. As for Lyris trying to get Archie laid, I actually designed her to be virginal and plan to keep her there. It's fine if Lyris prods her about it sometimes, but don't let her push it too hard please. >_>
On Josa, one-dimensional character is one-dimensional. It works.
On Silver, she just need some Midol and some dark chocolate and RAINBOWS!
On Sylvie, we all miss her.
On Aaeru & Neveril, I actually think it's kind of cute the way they interact. Aaeru is definitely the dominant personality of the pair, and she's possessive. It's not uncommon.
On Balyss, I think we all love her. She's awesome. She throws killer parties.
On Lyris, yes, she's often very crude. Some of it is expected, but perhaps maybe scale it back just a tiny smidge possibly? Your character, your call.
On Yuria, I actually agree with you on her funniness, but her potential as a growing character is there too. I don't see her as being quite as one-dimensional as, say, Josa, who is easily predictable. Yuria is starting to grow out of that, I think.
Feedback is delicious.