Trying something new. I worked this down from what would have probably been around 100-120k of text to....
...less. >_>;;
This is highly experimental. I expect that most will be irritated by it. But I had to give it a shot. :x
I don't get it.
So during the filming in Sigh Kyon get's Mikuru Beamed, losses a year's worth of memories, and ends up hooking up with Sasaki?
Quote from: thepanda on November 01, 2011, 07:00:51 AM
I don't get it.
:(
Haruhi threw her megaphone at Kyon for his insubordination. They were on the roof of the school.
And once again, experiment failed.
Well, nothing ventured, nothing gained.
Eh, I wouldn't say it was a failure. Seemed pretty good to me, and given the style it's very hard to impart a high level of detail - most of that's going to have to be left to the reader's interpretation.
The only quibbles I have with it is that there still could have been a bit more to show what was building between Sasaki and Kyon, and the fact that Haruhi and the Brigade barely seemed to even try to get to him was noticeable as well.
When trying to unravel the events of the story, I think that -- on average -- I mostly got the 'what' part, but the used style doesn't easily lend itself toward addressing the 'why' part, at least unless the reader is willing to wade deep into conjectures. In my opinion, the exact nature of the 'accident' that happened while making the movie was not so relevant that it would have needed better exposure; neither did the events past the hospital scene require more work as they followed a rather steady path once the premise was clear. However, even with careful reading I couldn't pinpoint the path of logic that turned premise A to premise B around the hospital scene itself. As you have condensed a novel-length story into a vignette, that path undoubtedly exists but couldn't be seen in the given scale.
Without that particular detail, there is very little leverage for analyzing the story, and all that is left is just relishing it as it is, more poetry than prose. It had a melancholy, bittersweet atmosphere that was probably intensified by the uncertainty concerning the exact circumstances of the described events. From the stylistic point of view, it is a very consistent, engaging piece of work.
Quote from: Halbarad on November 01, 2011, 11:11:20 AMEh, I wouldn't say it was a failure. Seemed pretty good to me, and given the style it's very hard to impart a high level of detail - most of that's going to have to be left to the reader's interpretation.
Probably not unfixably -- I made it clear that the first scene is from the top of a roof, so the fall is a bit more obvious.
Quote from: Halbarad on November 01, 2011, 11:11:20 AMThe only quibbles I have with it is that there still could have been a bit more to show what was building between Sasaki and Kyon, and the fact that Haruhi and the Brigade barely seemed to even try to get to him was noticeable as well.
It is really hard to work on that without dialog. I ... probably could actually fit in a scene of the pair of them at the new school, and Kyon looking incredibly beleaguered as he tries to catch up on his backlog. That might be a chance to show Sasaki considering that she could stop helping him, but decide not to.
Quote from: sarsaparilla on November 01, 2011, 11:26:31 AMWhen trying to unravel the events of the story, I think that -- on average -- I mostly got the 'what' part, but the used style doesn't easily lend itself toward addressing the 'why' part, at least unless the reader is willing to wade deep into conjectures.
Oh? That's-- Ideal, actually. The purpose of the exercise is to imply without stating. A lot of this does require setting up a framework where the reader has to answer some questions themselves, but I think I'm okay with that.
Quote from: sarsaparilla on November 01, 2011, 11:26:31 AMIn my opinion, the exact nature of the 'accident' that happened while making the movie was not so relevant that it would have needed better exposure; neither did the events past the hospital scene require more work as they followed a rather steady path once the premise was clear. However, even with careful reading I couldn't pinpoint the path of logic that turned premise A to premise B around the hospital scene itself. As you have condensed a novel-length story into a vignette, that path undoubtedly exists but couldn't be seen in the given scale.
The original plan had a lot of gaps in it that needed to be addressed; the core of the story seemed adequate, and that's actually what I've got here. I agree that extra scenes aren't required, but even though I'm going for minimalism here (writing without dialogue was fun; hadn't done that in a while), I can probably fit something in.
Huh ... come to think of it ... are there any other Sasaki/Kyon fics out there?
Quote from: sarsaparilla on November 01, 2011, 11:26:31 AMWithout that particular detail, there is very little leverage for analyzing the story, and all that is left is just relishing it as it is, more poetry than prose. It had a melancholy, bittersweet atmosphere that was probably intensified by the uncertainty concerning the exact circumstances of the described events. From the stylistic point of view, it is a very consistent, engaging piece of work.
Okay, that's more or less precisely what I was trying for-- That's incredibly encouraging. I've revised slightly with a bit more detail to clarify that it's on the roof.
I'm pondering adding another scene to show Kyon and Sasaki at school, but I'm not sure if it needs it. It could fit, and might allow the development of their relationship to feel a bit more ... organic, even if Haruhi does have to provide that final push. Hmm.
Edit: Man, I'm distracted; I didn't even properly thank you for the commentary. >_< Sorry about that -- I appreciate the comments. :D
What took me a bit to figure out was the cues you used to indicate the various characters. Once I got those down the story fell (mostly) into place.
Yuki was 'slight', Mikuru was generally the 'older' girl; 'brown-haired' was reserved for Sasaki (which wasn't too difficult to figure out after the first appearance). I'm not sure what the deal was with the apparent TFEI in the hospital (we all know that colored hair = TFEI of course); that was kind of weird.
I could tell right away that it couldn't have been the Mikuru beam scene (for one thing, the beam would have gone straight through the camera; for another the view wouldn't have bounced around so much and included a megaphone) but figuring out that it was specifically Haruhi knocking Kyon off a rooftop was beyond me.
If they were on a rooftop the sky would be visible basically anywhere you pointed the camera, so you could mention the first shot as a view of Haruhi being 'silhouetted against the sky' or even 'silhouetted against a view of the city'? That might give a slight additional hint as to where that scene takes place. EDIT: while I was typing this, Brian already figured out a way to clarify it based on other people's commentary.
The hair ribbon seems to be a very versatile tool for symbolism.
One typo jumped out at me; I think 'kotasu' should be 'kotatsu'.
Anyhow, that was... (searches for word) poignant. Actually, unlike my earlier complaints about the prologue of 'Sympathy' not being very clear and thus unsatisfying, this was an example of the same sort of technique (deliberately not explaining what's happening) done right and in a very satisfying way.
The difference seems to be that this story does describe a series of visual impressions in great detail, so it is immediately clear that you are looking at something. Very tentatively, I'd recommend considering trying to flesh out the end of the prologue of 'Sympathy' (
after the point when all hell breaks loose) along similar lines -- more detail down to the visual impressions, even if they don't form a complete picture (since Haruhi in the prologue has no way to tell what's going on).
Quote from: Brian on November 01, 2011, 11:42:54 AM'm pondering adding another scene to show Kyon and Sasaki at school, but I'm not sure if it needs it. It could fit, and might allow the development of their relationship to feel a bit more ... organic, even if Haruhi does have to provide that final push. Hmm.
Actually -- this scene wouldn't do anything but echo the scene of Kyon leaving the hospital.... Hum. But on the 'why doesn't Haruhi try harder?' angle, maybe it would work if she (and possibly Mikuru this time, instead of Yuki) sneak into the campus and see it, unobserved? Hmm....
Quote from: Arakawa Seijio on November 01, 2011, 11:46:40 AMWhat took me a bit to figure out was the cues you used to indicate the various characters. Once I got those down the story fell (mostly) into place.
The hair ribbon seems to be a very versatile tool for symbolism.
Nanoha: "I always thought so."
Homura: *nods stoically*
Quote from: Arakawa Seijio on November 01, 2011, 11:46:40 AMOne typo jumped out at me; I think 'kotasu' should be 'kotatsu'.
That's right; thanks for catching that.
Quote from: Arakawa Seijio on November 01, 2011, 11:46:40 AMAnyhow, that was... (searches for word) poignant. Actually, unlike my earlier complaints about the prologue of 'Sympathy' not being very clear and thus unsatisfying, this was an example of the same sort of technique (deliberately not explaining what's happening) done right and in a very satisfying way.
Somewhat spawned from our discussion on Rai Shu, actually....
Quote from: Arakawa Seijio on November 01, 2011, 11:46:40 AMThe difference seems to be that this story does describe a series of visual impressions in great detail, so it is immediately clear that you are looking at something. Very tentatively, I'd recommend considering trying to flesh out the end of the prologue of 'Sympathy' (after the point when all hell breaks loose) along similar lines -- more detail down to the visual impressions, even if they don't form a complete picture (since Haruhi in the prologue has no way to tell what's going on).
Hmm. I think I get what you're suggesting, but a direct transfer of the effect wouldn't work. The other thing is that this story is (trying to be) third person omniscient, which is something I'm pretty terrible at. Third person limited, sure, but.... Anyway, it will work differently in first person -- but it's a thought.
Thanks for the comments. :)
Ooooh. Okay. Missed this earlier. Sarsaparilla pointed out that Sasaki's presence isn't explained well enough. So the missing scene would be Haruhi and the brigade being turned away at the hospital by Kyon's parents (or possibly a more forgiving father, while Kyon's mother is in the background already enlisting Sasaki's help). This also underscores the (difficult to explain without dialog or being specific) 'Kyon's parents keep Haruhi out of the picture' angle.
Right. I'll try and work that scene in, too -- I think that's the missing piece. Excellent -- wow, I'm feeling much better about this effort now. :D
Quote from: Brian on November 01, 2011, 01:56:47 PMSo the missing scene would be Haruhi and the brigade being turned away at the hospital by Kyon's parents (or possibly a more forgiving father, while Kyon's mother is in the background already enlisting Sasaki's help). This also underscores the (difficult to explain without dialog or being specific) 'Kyon's parents keep Haruhi out of the picture' angle.
Yes, that would indeed bridge the perceived gap in the chain of events. Nothing else is needed, IMHO.
Somehow, I can see this whole story as a collection of short, sepia-toned movie clips fading into each other while a slow, contemplative piano piece plays in the background. No voice or sound effects, just the rolling images and a melancholy track of music to accompany it.
I envisioned it like one of those animated pieces you'd see submitted at a film festival, where the creator avoids using language as much as possible to make it accessible to everyone.
Admittedly, this is written in English, and the explanation of Kyon's amnesia totally breaks that anyway. :x
But, again, thank you for the comments; it sounds like I wasn't as far off the mark as I originally feared, so that's quite reassuring. :)
I'm a big fan of heavily stylized narrative, but this technique is something that makes me really buckle down at the monitor because I know I'll have to go through with a magnifying glass to make sure everything is picked up. That's no knock on you, Brian. That's likely more a function of how I read.
Once I did go through things a couple times, the sequence of events seemed fairly clear. I like the opening scene quite a bit, too. It seems like something very naturally told with this style.
One thing that concerns me somewhat is how Kyon would get so divorced from the brigade, but explaining that may not even fit with the style or really add anything. It can be taken as fact to keep the focus on the scenery, the emotions.
Quote from: Muphrid on November 01, 2011, 04:58:14 PMOne thing that concerns me somewhat is how Kyon would get so divorced from the brigade, but explaining that may not even fit with the style or really add anything. It can be taken as fact to keep the focus on the scenery, the emotions.
Er, Kyon's separated from the Brigade because he doesn't remember them. He got (title-drop:) retrograde amnesia.
I thought it was obvious (though not in a way that satisfied me) in the scene where he wakes up. I can downplay the specifics there and have Sasaki holding a book on memory disorders or something when they're getting on the bus, I guess. Though, I guess I have to describe a picture on the cover of the book that explains what it is to avoid basically using a shortcut to just state it.
Hmm. A few other instances of telling when I should be showing -- it outright says Kyon doesn't recognize Haruhi, and that should be implied.
No no, that is obvious. My surprise is that he would go so strongly in the Sasaki direction, seemingly without getting reacquainted with the brigade that much. I mean, on the one hand I can see it; as was said earlier, Kyon's parents might have a thing or two to say about having him associate with the people who put him in that predicament in the first place. That's why it's not something that necessarily needs to be delved into, but it does make me think, "Okay, this, this, and this would need to happen. Hm, yeah, I can accept that, under the right circumstances."
Ah, my bad.
I think that will be addressed with the one scene I plan on adding-- Haruhi and the brigade being turned away by Kyon's family, even as Sasaki is brought in as a close friend who can be trusted.
Edit: This should be the final version, barring some minor fixes, if anyone catches errors.
It's not quite dead yet (thread)...
While not my ideal style, this "show, don't tell (much at all)" seems to have worked out. The presence/interference of the TFEI is left open, but that could be explained away by having the focus of the story on the mundane (relatively).
Honestly, and this will probably reflect badly on me, Kyon's parents bringing in Sasaki reminds me of Rumbling Hearts, where you bring in someone comfortable from the last memory time period; but that's not quite right since they bring her in before they know that. On a similar topic, I'm not fully sure how in-character it is for her to be affectionate and possessive of Kyon.
For the SOS Brigade not trying to get Kyon again, I could easily see Kyon's parent's objecting to that since they were responsible for the injury and, essentially, they aren't his friends anymore.
Hmm, not familiar with Rumbling Hearts. I'll look into that.
I didn't mean to portray Sasaki as possessive as much as concerned. Hmm. I'll take another look at that and see if I came across a bit too strongly there. I think I'm okay with her being affectionate (at least, eventually; in context, it takes at least six months to get to that point, given that she doesn't 'confess' (where Haruhi actually forced her hand a bit) until Christmas).
...I still have no idea what those tickets are even for. Something ostensibly semi-romantic, but not wholly. Huh.
Going back to my 'the story needs to support itself' stance, I'll see if I feel like that requires a touch-up; since it's been a while since I've touched this one, I should have fresh eyes when I go back it it. :)
But! Thank you greatly for the feedback; as always, it's greatly appreciated.
Personally, I didn't find Sasaki the least bit possessive, and that wouldn't even suit her personality; she would be the first person to retreat if she was accused of appropriating somebody's affection to the detriment of other people. The story portrays her as earnest, considerate and reliable, the way she is presented in canon as well, and those are naturally the traits Kyon's parents wanted to see after the incident (and that explains why they preferred to have her around after the incident instead of brigade members).
I suppose I got the "possessive" aspect from how hyper-aware Sasaki seemed of Haruhi (doesn't turn around at the bus, smile vanishing at the door, freezes at the graduation).
Ah, I believe that the chosen format is open to a wide variety of interpretations, and thus there aren't any 'right' answers as much as subjective ones; my understanding of Sasaki's character was congruent with the presentation, but that doesn't exclude the possibility that a radically different interpretation could also fit, in which case the story acts more like a template onto which the reader is free to project his or her own expectations. I hadn't thought of it that way, but now that it was mentioned it appears evident.
While I can see how various people might see different things ... well -- I do like that it's open to interpretation; that's one of the main drives of using such a style. Also, in retrospect, that style is probably an indirect admission that I'm so clumsy with specifics that vagaries can frequently serve me better in storytelling....
Realistically, I don't know how well I could have written the longer version of this story; my original plan was just to try an opening scene from the PoV of an inanimate object (the camera), and then it mutated into the idea that became 'The Melancholy Silent Movie.' But how would I really have handled all the details of writing a story of a romance (as such) forming between a character very like the Kyon from canon, only without the benefit of the character growth he's gained? Could I maintain reader interest and make it really feel like it was Kyon/Sasaki? So by avoiding those specifics, I did introduce spaces where other meanings could be drawn from a lot of directions.
I (personally) prefer Sarsaparilla's interpretation; I don't see Sasaki as being possessive, either (I still think she made up that confession in book 11, just to try and push Kyon towards what she believed would make him happy, honestly). Affectionate ... once certain relationship bridges were crossed -- yeah, I'm fine with that.
I think I could hammer down some of the things that are open to interpretation, but (pre-emptive; sleep deprivation is kicking in and I'm losing my focus; apologies) I'm not sure I'm going to. I'm generally satisfied with this, but if I look at it in a new light and see things that have too many possible negative connotations, I'll try and smooth them down.
Mm; rambling. Very much need to sleep soon. :p
Edit: Forgot this; thank you for that comment, Sarsaparilla; it helped reinforce my original perception.
JonBob, thank you for your insight into your PoV as well; that was fairly illuminating. :)