Soulriders 5.0: Legend of the Unending Games

Kuno being electrocuted is a gag that might be plausible in the Ranmaverse; however, not like it happens here. The context would be a gag where Ranma initially gets Kuno to take him by a fairly standard deception, but then Kuno refuses to respect Ranma's boundaries and Ranma escalates his attempts to keep him away to these ever more ludicrous heights. The audience can ignore the fact that, in reality, those heights of conflict , because they simply arose out of the comedic principle of repeatedly exaggerating a situation.

But as written, where the first thing we see is Kuno being pulled out of the suitcase and given electroshock, it's effectively a punchline with no setup. In isolation like this it doesn't really register as an exaggerated gag; and, taken at face value, it feels more like Ranma's become a kidnapper, because we don't see what Kuno did to provoke his action. (We're told of it, but that doesn't have the necessary impact to put us in a comedic frame of mind for interpreting the import of the scene.)

The scene sets him up as an unscrupulous and dangerous person, and casts his later thoughts on killing vs. not killing in a bit too dire a light -- if he can seriously treat Kuno like that, then it seems much more plausible that he would deal out death to people who are not only obstacles to his plan, but also threatened the safety of the Guide. He's already close enough to crossing the line with his reasoning as it is, and I think you were trying to go for a somewhat different emphasis on what his temptation to kill in this fic is based on. (I would guess the paragraph where he thinks to himself that he could take just one life and be forever rid of the curse is a closer expression of what you were aiming for.)

Aside re the electroshock thing: is that by any chance a deliberate echo of Urusei Yatsura?

The pacing of the chapter is comfortably brisk, so perhaps there is room to stretch it out a little with a description of how Ranma's trip progresses from, say, an initially cordial-seeming (well, by Kuno levels) agreement, gradually escalating to the mayhem already depicted and thus framing it correctly so there's no misunderstanding about it implying something about Ranma's choice. Done well, it might even aid the pacing and tension without reducing it.

The action is well written. Ranma finishing the fight with Shi Shi Hokodan in that way is somehow very satisfying.

I'd give some re-thought to how Ranma's thoughts on killing are presented, but not too much; after mulling it over, I have a feeling that most of the sour taste from it comes from how they're framed by Ranma's treatment of Kuno immediately prior.

It seems like a solid first chapter. Rather than the mostly nondescript opening of the original Identity, this gives the impression that the fic will have a lot of fast-paced, gritty action, a somewhat dark tone, and in general things are going to get pretty wild. (If I understand what I've heard of the Saffron arc correctly, the fic is basically going to escalate on some aspects of it.) If all that is indeed the case, then you're introducing the fic correctly this time.

I think I can kill several birds here, then: I can elaborate more on how Ranma persuaded Kuno to bankroll this trip to China, and in doing so, I can space things out a little bit (and also tone them down) regarding how Ranma keeps Kuno, er, restrained.  I'd like to keep some aspect of that if possible for a moment of levity, but clearly it can be handled a bit better.

Ranma's thoughts on killing are indeed a bit muddled here, so I'm going to try to clean that up.  Ultimately, Ranma knows that there is a time and a place to use that level of force.  Nevertheless, he should fear that he will resort to it too quickly, based on vengeful thinking or personal needs than what is appropriate in the moment and for the situation at hand.  I think part of the issue I had with this is I've always had doubts about Ranma's display of mercy that occurs here, so I've ended up jumping through hoops trying to make it feel as justified and reasonable as possible, getting myself a bit lost while doing so.  I think that can be made more uniform, though.

As far as I understand the story so far: the Ki Sorcerers' magic is evidently affected / powered by emotion. The wrong emotions at the wrong time may cause disastrous results, so the village employs a Sieve who is trained to absorb and then harmlessly dissipate everyone's emotions. After Ranma's battle with Saffron, the current Sieve found he enjoyed the taste of Ranma's anger, and wanted to taste it instead of dissipating / burying it. Hence he became unable to filter the villagers' emotions, and the village is slowly sliding towards chaos as the Sorcerers are unable to cope with or control their own feelings.

Of course, the chapter itself is very coy about stating any of this outright. (If the above description is wrong, well, it describes the impression I got.) It makes sense -- it takes Ranma a while to figure this out, while the Sorcerers don't use the term 'emotion', instead referring to it as a type of energy. However, it makes the import of Prince Bailu's death somewhat confusing. Did Prince Bailu go nuclear because his emotions got the best of him in the heat of battle, and then killed himself because he did not truly wish to cause such an outcome? Do they control their emotions since then, because Prince Bailu's tragedy awoke them to the devastation they can cause if left unchecked? It took me an extra re-reading after seeing the scene with the sieve to puzzle out what they were getting at, so it may be possible to make that particular tale a bit more clear, still without employing the term 'emotion' outright. At least enough so that it's not tempting to go back and re-read things for clarification after you reveal what you mean more clearly... otherwise it feels like we're always a step behind where Ranma is in terms of understanding the situation.

If I'm misunderstanding something with the above analysis, that's probably all the more reason to clarify what you originally meant.

The point at which the chapter is ended is probably fine if you can just click 'next page', but reading it as it was, it struck me as a bit questionable for a cliffhanger -- it could have gone on just a second or two longer. The thing is, the Captain just saw him punch out the Sieve, but it's unclear as to what her reaction is, and how she's going to react -- is Ranma about to have to explain himself? or start running and fighting for his life? Either seems possible, and (to my taste -- I might be wrong) the ending should disambiguate between these two very different kinds of cliffhanger. Instead, we cut to what Ranma is thinking and his resolution not to cooperate with the Sorcerers' plan, and then end, and we don't really know how much the tension has just been ramped up, if at all.

QuoteAs far as I understand the story so far: the Ki Sorcerers' magic is evidently affected / powered by emotion. The wrong emotions at the wrong time may cause disastrous results, so the village employs a Sieve who is trained to absorb and then harmlessly dissipate everyone's emotions. After Ranma's battle with Saffron, the current Sieve found he enjoyed the taste of Ranma's anger, and wanted to taste it instead of dissipating / burying it. Hence he became unable to filter the villagers' emotions, and the village is slowly sliding towards chaos as the Sorcerers are unable to cope with or control their own feelings.

If you've already concluded that the Sieve really sensed something from Ranma, not Saffron, then you're one step ahead.  They all think it's Saffron at the moment, but otherwise, this is pretty much as close as anyone could be expected to get given the information at hand.

Quote
Of course, the chapter itself is very coy about stating any of this outright. (If the above description is wrong, well, it describes the impression I got.) It makes sense -- it takes Ranma a while to figure this out, while the Sorcerers don't use the term 'emotion', instead referring to it as a type of energy. However, it makes the import of Prince Bailu's death somewhat confusing. Did Prince Bailu go nuclear because his emotions got the best of him in the heat of battle, and then killed himself because he did not truly wish to cause such an outcome? Do they control their emotions since then, because Prince Bailu's tragedy awoke them to the devastation they can cause if left unchecked? It took me an extra re-reading after seeing the scene with the sieve to puzzle out what they were getting at, so it may be possible to make that particular tale a bit more clear, still without employing the term 'emotion' outright. At least enough so that it's not tempting to go back and re-read things for clarification after you reveal what you mean more clearly... otherwise it feels like we're always a step behind where Ranma is in terms of understanding the situation.

Yeah, this is more or less the case; Bailu unleashes a terrible spell partly because of his grief over having taken down some of his men in friendly fire, but he's also more responsible for the situation at hand than Sindoor's tale relates.  I think I understand what you're saying, though: it's important that these points about why the Sorcerers are doing what they're doing be conveyed extremely clearly, so that their measures seem reasonable until Ranma realizes the Sieve is a person and that there's a whole level of twisted to it that he didn't anticipate.

I think I can subtly tighten this up without giving away the big kahuna--the explicit connection between emotion and magic.

QuoteThe point at which the chapter is ended is probably fine if you can just click 'next page', but reading it as it was, it struck me as a bit questionable for a cliffhanger -- it could have gone on just a second or two longer. The thing is, the Captain just saw him punch out the Sieve, but it's unclear as to what her reaction is, and how she's going to react -- is Ranma about to have to explain himself? or start running and fighting for his life? Either seems possible, and (to my taste -- I might be wrong) the ending should disambiguate between these two very different kinds of cliffhanger. Instead, we cut to what Ranma is thinking and his resolution not to cooperate with the Sorcerers' plan, and then end, and we don't really know how much the tension has just been ramped up, if at all.

I'm unsure what to do about this.  I already had concerns that this chapter was getting long.  I did write the scene that immediately follows from this, however, as the lead in for where we'd pick up.  In short, that scene goes as follows: the Captain tries to take Ranma back to his hut, angry with him, and Ranma realizes from her anger that she is the one Tilaka was talking about, who was with him at the spring when he sated the previous Sieve.  Ranma sneaks away after the Captain is done with him and tries to attack the channelers in the tower to bring down the Maze, but he can't disable that many people that quickly without the Guard swarming in.

The way I would tweak things to make it all work is as follows:  instead of Ranma telling Sindoor anything about what happened at Jusenkyo, he would say nothing and be given the last bit of leeway and respect Sindoor will offer in deference to the mercy he showed the Captain (this is something I'd planned on doing anyway because I didn't want to have Ranma "just so happen" not to tell Sindoor that Saffron's dead, however convoluted the actual logic was that Ranma presented).  Only once he's stopped from assaulting the channelers would he feign cooperation, encouraging the Sorcerers to prepare an army against the Phoenix for him to buy time for another opportunity to escape.  Ironically, that's all a lot closer to what happens pre-rewrite.

I admit, though, I'm not thrilled with the idea of the chapter ending up near 18-19 thousand words, but the way it's structured now, I see no obvious place to break it up.

QuoteI'm unsure what to do about this.  I already had concerns that this chapter was getting long.  I did write the scene that immediately follows from this, however, as the lead in for where we'd pick up.  In short, that scene goes as follows: the Captain tries to take Ranma back to his hut, angry with him, and Ranma realizes from her anger that she is the one Tilaka was talking about, who was with him at the spring when he sated the previous Sieve.  Ranma sneaks away after the Captain is done with him and tries to attack the channelers in the tower to bring down the Maze, but he can't disable that many people that quickly without the Guard swarming in.

The way I would tweak things to make it all work is as follows:  instead of Ranma telling Sindoor anything about what happened at Jusenkyo, he would say nothing and be given the last bit of leeway and respect Sindoor will offer in deference to the mercy he showed the Captain (this is something I'd planned on doing anyway because I didn't want to have Ranma "just so happen" not to tell Sindoor that Saffron's dead, however convoluted the actual logic was that Ranma presented).  Only once he's stopped from assaulting the channelers would he feign cooperation, encouraging the Sorcerers to prepare an army against the Phoenix for him to buy time for another opportunity to escape.  Ironically, that's all a lot closer to what happens pre-rewrite.

Umm, I think this 'tweak' is way-way complicated. You're contemplating restructuring the chapter to be over a third of the NaNoWriMo quota in length (!) and changing a major plot point just because of my fairly minor original complaint. It's probably easier to just ignore my complaint :-)

Though now that I know where the next chapter was going to start, I'm thinking you could try something more along the following lines:

Quote from: overall structure of tweaked chapter ending
"What have you done, Outsider? I asked you to show him compassion, and this is what you do?"

<Ranma reaction>

... continue Captain reaction - she checks Tilaka ...

<continue Ranma's reflections>

... Captain further reaction - addresses herself to Ranma again, perhaps? insists that he has to leave immediately before what he's done to Tilaka is discovered? not sure ...

<Ranma is still in the midst of his thoughts, ending as before with "No way. No way in hell. I'll tear this tower apart with my bare hands before it comes to that.">

This seems to me to be somewhat more clear in terms of what the tone at this point is.

Anyhow, you could probably figure something out along those lines. If not, then my observation is worth ignoring; again, it's that much less salient once there's a chapter 3 that you can immediately click to...

Seems much more reasonable to me. Toning the joke down somewhat saves having to spend too much time building up to it, incidentally -- that's about the most you could do without resorting to a full-scale flashback of their journey together.

Anyhow, it's more clear what the situation with Kuno is, and I think the overall tone of the chapter is better for it.

Quote
Umm, I think this 'tweak' is way-way complicated. You're contemplating restructuring the chapter to be over a third of the NaNoWriMo quota in length (!) and changing a major plot point just because of my fairly minor original complaint. It's probably easier to just ignore my complaint :-)

Though now that I know where the next chapter was going to start, I'm thinking you could try something more along the following lines:

(snip)

This seems to me to be somewhat more clear in terms of what the tone at this point is.

Anyhow, you could probably figure something out along those lines. If not, then my observation is worth ignoring; again, it's that much less salient once there's a chapter 3 that you can immediately click to...

Well, let me not give the wrong impression:  changing the timing of when Ranma tells the Sorcerers about Saffron was something I wanted to do anyway to avoid Ranma having to conveniently omit stuff for reasons I didn't find plausible enough, and I was already having trouble figuring out the structuring for chapter 3.  Tacking on another scene on the end (which didn't end up quite as long as I'd thought) allowed me to get it to feel right, I think.  Provided that that scene works.

QuoteI think we can take that part of the good Guide's tale as fact, and it is a sure matter of concern for someone in the tribe. She should hear of it.

Suggest something like "a certain person" instead of "someone".

Quoteadd this addendum

Adding addenda appends additional alliteration. Algebra!

... which is to say, repetition of "add" is a bit odd.

QuoteBut even before that message was common knowledge, the youngest daughter of Tendō Sōun, the fiery Akane, suspect something was gravely wrong.

Probably "suspected". Maaybe "became" instead of "was"?

QuoteNeed I remind you how long it took for you to get out of China?

Repeated "you".

• Akane begins to worry something has happened to Ranma - goes to ask Amazons for help
• flashback showing what happens between Akane and Shampoo -- say, up to the end of their fight
• Akane next goes to ask Ukyo for help
• flashback showing what happens between Akane and Ukyo -- i.e. the aftermath of Ranma going around to the other fiancees, Akane misunderstanding, Ukyo telling her off

[li]... rest of chapter.[/li][/list]

To me, the biggest problem with this chapter is that it doesn't advance the plot while also going into all this flashback stuff, so really, the best thing to do that I can see is to go with a more natural restructuring.

To get an idea of what was going on, here was the plan for the next couple of chapters:

03 - (what you see here)
04 - An Amazon party goes to Jusenkyo and finds some Sorcerers there; the Captain leads a force there to root the Amazons out, and Ranma manages to convince the Sorcerers to take him along.  He helps free some Amazon captives, so they can get word to the Amazon village, but he is still held himself.
05 - Shampoo, Akane, Ukyo, et. al. arrive in China, and their goal is to convince the Amazon elders that a rescue of Ranma is warranted and in the village's interests.  The Amazon elders frankly don't believe this is the case, and the key lies in Shampoo asserting she is Ranma's wife, which means Ranma is entitled to whatever aid she sees fit as a member of the tribe.  After some difficulties, Shampoo has to concede that Ranma does not love her yet, but she and Cologne are able to force the Council's hand into sending a significant force to Jusenkyo, where the Amazons and Sorcerers can square off in subsequent chapters.

What I have in mind now is to just cut 03 out, bump everything up, and put the parts relevant to Shampoo into what's currently 05 (they are, after all, pertinent to how well she can lie about being Ranma's wife).  All the other material can wait for good times to be worked in.  The whole battle arc between the Amazons and Sorcerers at Jusenkyo should have opportunities for Akane and Ukyo to be the POV characters, for instance.

I notice that, rather than interspersing flashbacks (sort of what I'd been expecting, I dunno), you're calling back to the corresponding action indirectly. e.g. a flashback to the scene of the Guide &co traveling in the old version is replaced by Ranma reasoning that the Amazons must have been contacted if they're showing up so soon, then asking them about it during the interrogation.

Not... really sure how I feel about Ranma's character here. I think most of what I've seen of him in canon, he has a fairly simple approach to things, and it takes a while for anything to get on his nerves. Even once angered, he generally takes a while to shift from attacking the problem head-on to just trying to manipulate the situation to win at any cost.

Here he's completely pissed off (with some justification) and thinking strategically (making deals he's prepared to break, coordinating the subterfuge with the Amazons and worrying that their cover stories match), which results in seeing mostly sides of him I'm not really familiar with. I'm not really sure though -- haven't read the Saffron arc yet, working gradually through the manga so eventually I'll get to that point and be able to revisit this issue. _{(The return of Principal Kuno is surprisingly tedious to read a second time through in manga form.)}

This is all just from what I remember of canon - I'm not exactly a longtime Ranma fan/fanfic veteran - so commentary from me on this is of limited usefulness. It would probably be good to ask a second opinion.

One thing I'll point to is Ranma explicitly refers to the "twisted ways" of the Sorcerers a lot, which is a bit odd. Sure, the Sorcerers are screwed up even on the surface, but they're not that twisted based on just what I've seen so far. I'm guessing you're going to pull more skeletons out of their closet at some point, but at this point it feels very much like you're relying on Informed Evil to characterize the Sorcerers. Either that, or Ranma's anger is spilling over into an aspect of the narration that feels like an objective statement of things and not his opinion. Or, I've just been lazy about putting things together from your hints so far. It seems a bit of a leap, though, from oblique hints to explicit mention of 'twisted ways'.

Quote"Curious. They used to watch us very closely, but I'd thought they'd grown tired of such waiting. Well, we shall have to find out for ourselves what the they want.

"what they want"

QuoteThe archer stepped up. "What are your intentions, Sorcerer? Where have you taken us? Why leave your protective bubble after so long? Did you think we wouldn't notice that you'd left? We've been watching. We've always been watching. Not many people would forget losing hundreds of their brothers to the likes of you!"

Not sure if Joketsuzoku encourage their male warriors to identify with their brothers (in the sense of other males of the tribe) specifically. It could be either way, I guess. It's not like patriarchal society discourages bonds of sisterhood, though unlike patriarchal society the Joketsuzoku happen to live surrounded by peoples who don't share their way of life, so they may be more careful about suppressing any hint of patriarchal relations; it's not really addressed in much detail how their matriarchy is structured. The only in-canon hints I can think of that you could use as a jumping-off point for reasoning it through is that Cologne is an absolute powerhouse next to Shampoo and demands total obedience from the latter (so it's really the oldest women who must be enforcing the shape of the society), while Mousse specializes in concealed weapons, making him probably the wimpiest-sounding of the full time martial artists -- many fics generalize this to having this an overall pattern for the males. (I think Kumkum being an archer fits this pattern.) I'm probably overthinking this.

Anyhow, "brothers" makes the reader stop and question the whole can of worms (as you can see from my tangent, it really is a can of worms you could get bogged down in for a while, given how much canon doesn't tell you either way). Not sure how to deal with this. "Brothers and sisters" or other synonyms is a bit clunky, maybe you could put "brethren" which feels more gender-neutral and dodges the question.

The stretch where Cologne asks Shampoo what happened and how she tried to kill Akane, etc, and whether it can be told more effectively--i.e. in a way other than through Shampoo's mouth but from Cologne's point of view. I feel like something more direct could be more powerful, but this doesn't seem like the place to really dwell on it in an in-the-moment sort of way.  It's something I could revisit later, though.

1) The timeline has been shifted so that, as Arakawa suggested, the Amazons do not learn that their people have been taken too until after Shampoo and Cologne go before the Council.
2) Shampoo confesses to Cologne that she attacked Akane prior to the Council receiving them, in a rewritten scene that is third-person from Shampoo's perspective.
3) Cologne uses a faked thumbprint on her letters to further solidify her accusation against Bindi, but Bindi refuses to lift Shampoo's censure, fearing the consequences of being so soft.  Cologne is still popular among the people, and Bindi agrees to have her named as the head of the Amazon war party as a compromise.  The true reasons for this agreement are not made public to the Council.

Some things I'd hoped to work in but couldn't quite find a way how:
4) Cologne going over Ukyo and Akane's stories.  Since she is no longer really surprised by them, I felt it wasn't needed anyway, as well as length concerns.

It ends up being very back and forth--the party goes into Jusenkyo, then they retreat out again, then they resolve to go back in.  Not real sure if that's okay or if there's a better way to structure things here.

Ukyo flashback scene with her dad:

QuoteDown the road, a mechanical crab wriggled its legs and closed its pincers, as if the aroma of hot butter sent shivers down its shell.

Whole description leading up to this is very neat. (Is it mostly fanciful, or are you working close to reference materials?) Here, though, I'd say something like "down the back of its shell" or "down the length of its shell".

Hmm, I'm not sure about this scene working as their reunion after X years where Ukyo refuses to meet her father and stops answering letters. It's a good excuse for the exposition but... if Ukyo is stubborn about honour, she doesn't have to compound it quite that way. She can, just as an example, instead have always been insistent that she needs to rectify her dishonour (which precludes being able to live with her family), and her father can be deeply unhappy about it while still respecting her wishes. (Which he does in the current scene as well. It's how Ukyo hasn't bothered to keep in touch that's the problem.) That kind of situation would make sense if they're this ultra-serious martial artist okonomiyaki chef dynasty.

On the other hand if Ukyo has been pursuing Ranma (first for revenge and then for marriage) at the cost of falling completely out of touch with her family, stuff like this winds up ringing particularly hollow ("you would've had a place like this five years ago"):

Quote"You don't think they owe us something?" Ukyō demanded. "If that cad Saotome Genma hadn't stolen our cart, you would've had a place like this five years ago. This is business, Father. If you pay for something, you expect to get it. You don't expect a promise to made in bad faith. The terms of the pact you make should be fulfilled. That's the right thing to do."

Anyhow, this is just my opinion. It probably merits an IRC discussion at some point as to the full considerations of Ukyo's backstory and what she is or isn't likely to do.

The battle closes:

Quote"We will," said Ryōga, "but the old woman is organizing something help out. Have a look."

Probably "something to help out".

Not sure about uses of "brothers and sisters" vs. "sisters and brothers" or such. (Don't remember what note we ended on with the whole 'how matriarchal is amazon society?' question.)

QuoteFWOOSH! Jets of flame spewed from his sleeves, and the heat tingled on Ukyō's face. The flour ignited, casting the sky aflame, and the rest of the party quickly ran out from under the falling, burning powder.

Hmm. It occurs to me that a cloud of airborne, flammable particulate matter would explode in place rather than just catch fire and fall down. (See: coal dust explosions in mines.) Which would be a lot more difficult to avoid if you were caught in it, but a whole lot more destructive if you aimed it properly. See:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dust_explosion
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flour_bomb
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIkk0D2tUU8 -- a bit different from your situation in that the flour is packed in bags around a firework

That sort of thing might be what you had in mind, but the actual description comes across as a bit underwhelming. This isn't an essential detail, though.

[quote
"Ukyō-sama! Ukyō-sama!"

She shook—from the cold air on her wet skin, from the pair of hands that jostled her. Ukyō blinked as daylight reached her eyes again. Feeling battered and sore, she sat upright, wincing.

"Good, you're awake," said Cologne, for once without her customary walking stick. "I'm glad you didn't require too much resuscitation."[/quote]

Maybe instead of "pair of hands" mention specifically "Konatsu's hands jostling her", to make it absolutely clear just who is speaking at the beginning of that scene.

Another flashback with revelation:

Second flashback needs to be more clearly delineated; either use past perfect (?) (i.e. 'had') more consistently or do something else that makes it immediately obvious at the beginning rather than jumping into a line of dialogue.

Going back:

QuoteUkyō tossed two tempura bombs at the wall, and the explosions blasted an opening at the base of the wall.

Repetition of 'wall'.

Ending:

I was fine with the back-and-forth. It does give the sense that battling the Sorcerers is an uphill struggle. I think there's a bit of sound reasoning that might be made more explicit: the first party consisted of Amazons going in force, many of whom were only tangentially concerned with the matter. It was repulsed, and the priority was to rescue whoever they could. The second party is much smaller: it consists of the people who are directly concerned with the situation, and some elites (who presumably are relatively more dedicated to war, have a duty to lay down their life for much lesser causes than the bulk of the warriors). The risk turns out to be too great to warrant the ordinary soldiers, though.

Or something like that. I see a certain logic to it. I assume you can ignore that, or rework it however you want to fit with what you think to be the general Amazon view of things (and when they might consider something to be too risky to send the entire army for -- a pragmatic concern which is somewhat in conflict with matters of honour).

I don't have a problem with 'heat-absorbing batter'. It could be batter that is far more effective at absorbing heat than normal batter, and perhaps was designed for that specific purpose.

As another example, even with my rant about flour generally exploding, I still think 'exploding flour' makes sense. It's just flour that explodes MORE than usual.

The story began with Ranma returning to China, bankrolled by Kuno, to claim his cure, but a group of tribal Sorcerers had already arrived at Jusenkyo, abducting the Guide.  Ranma managed to free the Guide, but not before inadvertently revealing his own knowledge of Saffron, the Sorcerers' true goal.  The Sorcerers took Ranma instead, bringing him to their village.

The Sorcerer village proved difficult to escape.  A group of channelers, sequestered in a guarded tower, were constantly maintaining a magical maze that thwarted Ranma's attempt to leave.  Instead, he was taken to see the leader of the Sorcerers, a woman named Sindoor.  Sindoor revealed to Ranma the Sorcerers' motivations: two decades before, a Sorcerer named Bailu was their captain in a war against a neighboring people.  Bailu lost control of his magic and unleashed a devastating spell that crippled both Sorcerers and their enemies alike.  The Sorcerers seek out Saffron to become their new "Sieve," a means to containing magic before it runs amok.  Ranma attempted another escape, assaulting the channelers, but was thwarted again and resolved to help the Sorcerers with their quest for Saffron for a time, long enough to find some way to escape on his own.

The Sorcerers sent a party to Jusenkyo to use the mountain there as a base of operations, but they were harassed by a party of the Sorcerers' enemies--the Amazons.  As Ranma began to learn Sorcerer magic, he teamed up with these Amazons to establish contact (via radio) with the Amazon village, alerting the Amazons of their capture.

With that news, Cologne, Mousse, and Shampoo returned from Japan to try to convince the Amazon leadership that a war party should be sent to rescue Ranma and their captured people.  To do this, Cologne attempted to invoke the Last Right:  the right of a wife to pursue her husband's body without restriction.  To provide evidence that Shampoo was (in the eyes of the law) Ranma's wife, Cologne called upon Akane, Ukyo, Ryoga, and Konatsu to join them in China and help give testimony, but Cologne was thwarted by hostile elements of the Council.  Only by blackmailing them could Cologne force the Council's hand and gain control of a party.

The Amazon war party launched an assault on the Sorcerers at Jusenkyo, but the resulting battle disrupted the water supply of the springs, causing a massive eruption of cursed water.  It is there, as the area around Jusenkyo is flooded and awash with creatures cursed by multiple springs, that Ranma, taken prisoner by the Sorcerers, awakens in a cell....

Chapter 1

QuoteRanma dashed in after them, coming after the girl, but a golden barrier rose between him and her, protection the girl in a shimmering sphere.

Should probably be 'protecting'.

Quote"Fortune that you broke the castk," the Guide insisted. "That's why you come, no?"

Typo.

Chapter 2
In retrospect, "the Communist Party forced them into hiding" is actually a fairly clever explanation for why Sorcerers and magic used to be a things, but now are no longer common knowledge....

There are a lot of weird typos, or things-that-might-be-typos in the latter part of the chapter, at least in the version on your website; I'll just list them and you can check the relevant text:

Quote
the last of her warmth died away, leaving him to still and lifeless room

when mention Saffron comes to me

men seek destroy everything that opposes them

The Sieve has meditated mediated

Tilaka was like a burglar, going through the desk draws and filing cabinets

rushing the helpless spellcasters to the to the rest of the tower

Also, I'd reword:

Quote
as amicable as the situation can be

Maybe "as amicable as the situation will allow" or such? Your usage is a bit weird in context.

Chapter 3

Didn't notice any typos in this chapter.

Quote"No doubt it is admirable to send dozens or hundreds of men away to save just one of our own," Bindi had said back then,

In the context of even somewhat-matriarchal Amazons, using 'men' as a counter jumps out a bit. I'd change it to use some other word. (You could perhaps make an argument for using 'men', but not easily develop it in-story... even while their original language may or may not make the distinction the way English tends to do.)

QuoteThe Amazons as a people might stand idle, incapable of decision-making, for days to come unless a major break in situation came.

Maybe 'break in the situation'?

QuoteYou don't expect a promise to made in bad faith

Maybe 'to be made'?

QuoteShe holes and rips in her outfit she left unpatched,

Perhaps 'The holes and rips in her outfit'?

QuoteIt was a slow process, and for that, the precession into the Maze was deathly quiet.

??? 'precession' ???

Isn't that a thing planetary bodies do? Perhaps 'procession'?

Quoteand when an arrow came close, they merely soared higher, out of reach. Even Ryōga's bandanas, which he hurled repeatedly in an endless stream.

Second sentence is a jarring sentence fragment.

Maybe something like "they merely soared higher, out of reach -- even of Ryoga's bandanas, ...".

QuoteUkyō tossed an open cannister of flour,

Perhaps 'canister'? (Not sure about this, though. Google seems to throw up evidence for either spelling, with no obvious regional distinction.)

Quotean unusual gesture to throw a lit match,and—

Missing space after the comma.

I remember quibbling about 'falling, burning powder', so you can just refer to my earlier C&C about it; feel free to ignore my quibble, though....

Quotein twos and threes around the Jusenkyō,

Using 'the' with Jusenkyo may be a bit unusual....

Quote"Briefly, perhaps!" cried Cologne, her robes whipping in the wind. "if we're close to our target, it may keep the Sorcerers occupied long enough."

Punctuation or capitalization. Either 'in the wind' should be followed by a comma, or "if we're close" should be capitalized ("If we're close").

QuoteAkane and Ukyō followed, repelling down the sheer wall with the bundles of noodles serving as ropes.

??? 'repelling' ???

Perhaps that should be 'rappelling' (http://grammarist.com/spelling/rappel-repel/).

QuoteUkyō repelled the rest of the way down gradually

Again, 'repelled' seems not right here.

First some minor corrections:

Quotehe didn't want sense of paralysis and fear to take control of him again,

Seems like there's a missing word here; something like 'he didn't want that sense of paralysis and fear'.

Quotebut that just a strong front.

'but that was just a strong front.'?

Quotea day that had nerve-racking for Ranma

'that had been nerve-racking'?

QuoteThat sense of disorientation, of wondering and confusion,

Should that be 'wondering and confusion', or 'wandering and confusion'? (I genuinely can't tell which one....)

QuoteI'd have to be a blind idiot not to, and Ōsaka has enough idiots already.

What does Osaka have to do with this? (They're in Tokyo, right?)

Quote"You're wrong, Ucchan. Akane isn't like that now. Too much has happened for things to be like that."

...

Akane looked to the griddle. "Hello, Ukyō. Has Ranma been making a pass at you for long?"

I don't really share Brian's immediate skepticism for the Ranma/Akane pairing, but... ouch. (Discussed in 'more general impressions' below.)

Quote"You go sneaking around without telling me, and now you make fun of my dead mother?You're worse than nothing, Ranma."

"mother?You're" has a missing space.

Chapter Feedback

The 'beetle the size of a Volkswagen' was an amusing touch. (I notice your writing style involves doing lots of shout-outs and references, including ones that it might not make strict sense for Ranma to know about. This was the first one that I actually found amusing, though. Well, okay, that and the reference to Nethack; but before this chapter they were ignorable at best, and sometimes slightly distracting. This is a personal point, so you probably don't want to consider changing it....)

I liked the scene of Ranma in the sorcerer-priest's laboratory inside a collapsing mountain. For whatever reason, the basic fact of them being cut off from everyone else like that works to give the Jyuusenkyo setting a thrilling sense of scale that wasn't present in your earlier descriptions. (And goes to show that descriptions aren't the only thing that serves to give a sense of the setting.)

(The early portions of Ranma treat it as just this place; whereas it is obviously an ancient site of power and every tribe within a hundred miles has some kind of interest in it.

I also haven't read the Saffron arc, so I'm not sure how much work canon already does to give a clear sense of the layout and infrastructure of the location, and how much additional work you may want to do to ensure the grandeur kicks in earlier.)

--

I'm not sure how much Cologne should be able to infer from the Ranma/Shampoo scene here, regarding their earlier confrontation; I think it would be wise to go back and double-check this scene against what she's supposed to know when preparing to go before the Twelve, when she suddenly discovers Shampoo has been keeping things from her.

More general impressions

It was interesting to re-read the whole fic up to now and take stock of my impressions. I think I said before that there are two disparate threads here, the first being the adventure-story in an exotic location and the second being the Ranma/Akane romance. The real challenge is to make both of these things interesting and relate them to one another.

The adventure-story aspect of things is very well done; I enjoyed putting on the soundtrack to Wild China while reading the Amazon council portion. It also seems like there's a solid series of hooks and reveals (in terms of things like: Ranma really being the next Sieve candidate (if I understand correctly), the Riverfolk turning out to be Amazons, and whatever weird thing it is the Sorcerers do with curse water (that has yet to be explained)). There are elements that seem to foreshadow that something will happen without necessarily divulging what (e.g. what happens if the Sorcerers realize that Ranma and not Saffron is the guy they want for Sieve?).

The setting is also fairly lush, and is sort of an element of interest in itself. Something like the details of the Council of Twelve and Amazon politics, I found added an enjoyable amount of detail to the adventure. If you might consider polishing the worldbuilding further, that's only because the part that's done already works very well.

One minor detail of worldbuilding it occurs to me you could add, for example: so far, you've only called the ki Sorcerer tribe 'Sorcerers'. However, is that really the tribe's proper name? Much like the world-at-large calls the Joketsuzoku tribe 'Chinese Amazons', and the Sorcerers call them 'Riverfolk', while the Amazons in the fic call themselves both 'Amazons' (in a casual context) and 'Joketsuzoku' ('Village of Woman Heroes' -- the tribe's proper name), you could give the Sorcerers a second 'formal' name that's a bit less generic. I notice they have (or had) Princes -- are they a Kingdom of some kind, much like the Amazons style themselves a Village?

Thus you could continue calling them 'Sorcerers', but establish that they have a formal name, something more flowery and appropriate to them being in China, the way 'Village of Woman Heroes' works for the Amazons. The Sorcerers' Ki manipulation is only superficially similar to Western sorcery anyways, much like the Amazon tribe is no relation of the Greek Amazons....

Now, on to the romance aspect of things, which is an entirely separate thread from the main story, and which you're delivering via flashbacks so far in this iteration....

I don't know, my thoughts here are still coalescing as to what the exact problem is, but here's my best attempt to explain for now.

QuoteAkane glared daggers at him. "You won't tell me you love me. You go sneaking around without telling me, and now you make fun of my dead mother?You're worse than nothing, Ranma. Do you hear me? You're not even a man!"

Not a man.

So that's what he needed to prove to her. That's what she wanted to see from him.

In terms of backstory, this seems to be the scene you've been building up to for, to justify Ranma's determination to get a cure this time at any cost. The connection here is utterly tangential, though; it's more like Akane has flown off the handle in the usual fashion, and then Ranma has flown off the handle at the 'not even a man' comment and is using the issue of his curse (if unconsciously) as a way to escape the basic issue of not being able to deal with Akane when these kinds of situations arise....

I think the basic problem Ranma actually has to confront is what to do about these kinds of quarrels. Either Akane is going to stop picking fights of her own accord (which is an idea this scene explicitly and thoroughly josses, to the extent of Ukyo lampshading the notion for us), or Ranma is going to have to figure out some different way to respond to her, that curbs her unreasonable behaviour. (Basically, in a way that makes it clear to Akane that either she has to make an effort to be more reasonable, or (as a matter of basic obviousness) things will not be able to work between them. In this scene, however, Ranma seems to me to be acquiescing in a way that validates her unreasonable behaviour.) Ranma's fetch-quest to Jyuusenkyo is basically a distraction from this main issue.

So, either Akane needs to change; and, after the degree of uncharitable behaviour she exhibits in this scene, this will take a lot of work on her end to motivate. Or Ranma needs to use the subsequent events in the main story to realize what the real problem is, which will ironically make the curse be a secondary issue again.

At the very least, the narrative needs to be more in tune with this glaring irony.

---

I mean, whereas in canon Akane could blow up at Ranma in this way, and Ranma was ineffectual in dealing with her because it worked in the service of comedy, having her do the same thing in the context of a fic that plays itself straight comes across as varying degrees of painful, depending on how much involvement the reader has for the characters. But, now that you're established this character interpretation, I can't predict how you're going to fix this dynamic without explicitly departing to a different interpretation.

A minor problem is that the Ranma/Akane scenes are sometimes a bit digressive from the main story thread. This is not because of their length, but more because of their emotional payload, which does not always fit in the flow of the adventure narrative. So far, I don't think that's been a large problem up to now; it should be folded into the broader problem I mentioned earlier that 'Ranma and Akane's fight doesn't motivate Ranma's trip to China'. If the motivation for Ranma going to Jyuusenkyo as a result of these events (or a slightly different sequence of events, maybe) is made more clear, then the flashbacks with Akane will be a more organic part of the story in terms of narrative and motivation (like the Shampoo flashbacks currently are).

The flashback scenes with Ukyo occur less often, and work well because Ukyo is a much more reasonable person than Akane, so the emotional content in them is less distracting. She also has a scene occurring at Dotonbori which (with the very well written description of the street and Ukyo's father's restaurant) is a minor setpiece in itself, and works to keep things interesting. (Adds depth and variety to the setting, basically.)

The flashback scenes with Shampoo work well because, while Shampoo is also highly unreasonable, her unreasonableness is more... justified by her culture and upbringing, I guess? In any case, it's more understandable; also, since the pairing is Ranma/Akane, Shampoo's flaws are not something that needs to be overcome to the same extent as Akane's flaws, for the overall fic to work.

Moreover, the Shampoo flashbacks tie in very well into the main-story thread involving Amazon politics; so they don't feel like digressions plot-wise. (They're preparing to face the Nine, Cologne discovers unexpected complications, then a flashback is perfectly timed to explain what the complications are.)

QuoteThe 'beetle the size of a Volkswagen' was an amusing touch. (I notice your writing style involves doing lots of shout-outs and references, including ones that it might not make strict sense for Ranma to know about. This was the first one that I actually found amusing, though. Well, okay, that and the reference to Nethack; but before this chapter they were ignorable at best, and sometimes slightly distracting. This is a personal point, so you probably don't want to consider changing it....)

Yeah, as we discussed on IRC, that Nethack joke will probably just go.

QuoteI liked the scene of Ranma in the sorcerer-priest's laboratory inside a collapsing mountain. For whatever reason, the basic fact of them being cut off from everyone else like that works to give the Jyuusenkyo setting a thrilling sense of scale that wasn't present in your earlier descriptions. (And goes to show that descriptions aren't the only thing that serves to give a sense of the setting.)

(The early portions of Ranma treat it as just this place; whereas it is obviously an ancient site of power and every tribe within a hundred miles has some kind of interest in it.

I also haven't read the Saffron arc, so I'm not sure how much work canon already does to give a clear sense of the layout and infrastructure of the location, and how much additional work you may want to do to ensure the grandeur kicks in earlier.)

Interesting thought.  I'm not sure what I could do (as early as chapter 1) to try to give that sense of scale, but it's something I'm interested in pursuing.

QuoteI'm not sure how much Cologne should be able to infer from the Ranma/Shampoo scene here, regarding their earlier confrontation; I think it would be wise to go back and double-check this scene against what she's supposed to know when preparing to go before the Twelve, when she suddenly discovers Shampoo has been keeping things from her.

Yeah, I knew that was a weak spot; Cologne ought to know more than she does, really, especially when she plays a part in Shampoo's scheme here.  I couldn't have Mousse do it because he would never help Shampoo try to get Ranma unless he (Mousse) got something pretty nice in return.

QuoteIt was interesting to re-read the whole fic up to now and take stock of my impressions. I think I said before that there are two disparate threads here, the first being the adventure-story in an exotic location and the second being the Ranma/Akane romance. The real challenge is to make both of these things interesting and relate them to one another.

The adventure-story aspect of things is very well done; I enjoyed putting on the soundtrack to Wild China while reading the Amazon council portion. It also seems like there's a solid series of hooks and reveals (in terms of things like: Ranma really being the next Sieve candidate (if I understand correctly), the Riverfolk turning out to be Amazons, and whatever weird thing it is the Sorcerers do with curse water (that has yet to be explained)). There are elements that seem to foreshadow that something will happen without necessarily divulging what (e.g. what happens if the Sorcerers realize that Ranma and not Saffron is the guy they want for Sieve?).

The setting is also fairly lush, and is sort of an element of interest in itself. Something like the details of the Council of Twelve and Amazon politics, I found added an enjoyable amount of detail to the adventure. If you might consider polishing the worldbuilding further, that's only because the part that's done already works very well.

One minor detail of worldbuilding it occurs to me you could add, for example: so far, you've only called the ki Sorcerer tribe 'Sorcerers'. However, is that really the tribe's proper name? Much like the world-at-large calls the Joketsuzoku tribe 'Chinese Amazons', and the Sorcerers call them 'Riverfolk', while the Amazons in the fic call themselves both 'Amazons' (in a casual context) and 'Joketsuzoku' ('Village of Woman Heroes' -- the tribe's proper name), you could give the Sorcerers a second 'formal' name that's a bit less generic. I notice they have (or had) Princes -- are they a Kingdom of some kind, much like the Amazons style themselves a Village?

Thus you could continue calling them 'Sorcerers', but establish that they have a formal name, something more flowery and appropriate to them being in China, the way 'Village of Woman Heroes' works for the Amazons. The Sorcerers' Ki manipulation is only superficially similar to Western sorcery anyways, much like the Amazon tribe is no relation of the Greek Amazons....

It's interesting you focus on this aspect of it; in the original writing it took a good bit of time for the portrayal of the Amazons and the Sorcerers to mature to where it is now (I was so unclear on how the Sorcerers should arm themselves, they used a weapon I won't even name here, instead of their characteristic staves).  I am indeed quite proud of all the background that has amassed, that it gives a clear sense of reality to the story that is part of what I strive for--portraying unusual locations or places with the sense that you could grab a handful of dirt from it and feel its granularity; that you could dust off their history books and find stories that are believed to be true yet shrouded in uncertainty thanks to the imperfections of human memory, or the willing misdeeds of men who tried to tweak history for their own purposes.

To tell the truth, the major worldbuilding of the piece has been more or less done for so long (in terms of settling the details in outline) that I forgot it was actually pretty cool to come up with, so I'm glad you brought it back up.

Still, I like the idea of giving the Sorcerers a more formal name.  I have no idea what that name would be (should it contain the word "Sorcerer"?  should it be something like "Tribe of the ... the ... magic ripple speakers?"), but that would be cool to do.

QuoteIn terms of backstory, this seems to be the scene you've been building up to for, to justify Ranma's determination to get a cure this time at any cost. The connection here is utterly tangential, though; it's more like Akane has flown off the handle in the usual fashion, and then Ranma has flown off the handle at the 'not even a man' comment and is using the issue of his curse (if unconsciously) as a way to escape the basic issue of not being able to deal with Akane when these kinds of situations arise....

I think the basic problem Ranma actually has to confront is what to do about these kinds of quarrels. Either Akane is going to stop picking fights of her own accord (which is an idea this scene explicitly and thoroughly josses, to the extent of Ukyo lampshading the notion for us), or Ranma is going to have to figure out some different way to respond to her, that curbs her unreasonable behaviour. (Basically, in a way that makes it clear to Akane that either she has to make an effort to be more reasonable, or (as a matter of basic obviousness) things will not be able to work between them. In this scene, however, Ranma seems to me to be acquiescing in a way that validates her unreasonable behaviour.) Ranma's fetch-quest to Jyuusenkyo is basically a distraction from this main issue.

So, either Akane needs to change; and, after the degree of uncharitable behaviour she exhibits in this scene, this will take a lot of work on her end to motivate. Or Ranma needs to use the subsequent events in the main story to realize what the real problem is, which will ironically make the curse be a secondary issue again.

At the very least, the narrative needs to be more in tune with this glaring irony.

As I mentioned on IRC yesterday, this also is and has been a major weak point of the story in its various iterations.  Are there alternatives?  Perhaps.  Something I've considered is the Guide and Plum calling Ranma and saying they're having trouble with some natives they're unfamiliar with--something that Ranma politely declines to deal with because he feels (at the time) that he has something good going with Akane and he doesn't want to leave her alone.  Then, having a major spat with Akane, he could realize that he doesn't know how to deal with that, but going into a fight is something he does know how to deal with, and so going to the Guide's help would help him get his mind off things.  This would require some restructuring of chapter 1, but that's about it.  Ironically, it requires a bit more awareness on Ranma's part to make that kind of decision.

Am I sold on such a change?  Admittedly, no.  I was quite fond of Ranma walking into the spring ground in chapter 1 totally unaware, but it may need to be done just to fix the logical issues that have cropped up.

As far as Akane's role, she'll have plenty of time to feel guilty about her part in this.  If, as we discussed, I reorder things so that her chapter comes before Ranma's here, then we'll get a more immediate sense of her regret and remorse, which I think would help paint her sympathetically despite the mistakes she makes.  The only downside is in terms of spacing and timing; I wanted to do Ranma's chapter first so that the question of what happened to Akane could be put aside, and similarly, the question of what happens with Henna could be put aside for a chapter until it's resolved in chapter 8.  But, portraying Akane sympathetically is important enough that I may sacrifice that timing.

One of the big questions about how to fix this chapter (whether "this chapter" ends up being 6 or 7) is the role that Henna the Sorcerer Priest plays in helping to probe at Ranma's psyche.  For reasons that will become clear, Henna is a reflection of Ranma.

Originally, Henna's role was quite simple:  Ranma is unhappy with being cursed.  Henna, in turn, is unhappy with her gender as well and is willing to take more extreme actions to remedy this.  This was one of the original intents of Henna's character, but as Ranma's issues with being cursed have become less and less relevant to his character in this story, this issue resonates less and less as well.  It could very well be that the role Henna plays in the story so far is more of a vestigial remnant than strictly relevant from a character standpoint.

So what do we do with Henna and Ranma?  The elements that Henna helps introduce are too important to wantonly cut.  Can she help probe at his decision to run from a problem he faced rather than confront it, as he did with Akane?  Possible, but that would require more personal development of Henna's character.  Can she help probe at how far Ranma would be willing to go to see his goals met?  This strikes me as having more traction, but it could also be predictable and trite.  Beyond that, I'm not sure what is the best thing to do with her; I only know that for her to be relevant from a character development standpoint, Ranma must see something of himself in her, something he wishes to avoid becoming.


Anyway, I believe that rearranging things so that Akane's chapter comes first will mitigate some issues with flashbacks being irrelevant.  Akane is missing; she will be captured by Sorcerers, and one of the big questions will be, "You're a Japanese girl; what are you doing here?"  Even if Akane doesn't answer that question aloud, it seems to me like a more natural time to introduce how this situation came to be.  The big question then will be how to use the character of Henna and the plot of being trapped in the mountain to help probe at Ranma's character.

First, getting minor things like typos out of the way.

QuoteThe question questions were where this attack would come from and when.

Not sure what you were trying to say here.

QuoteI cover the other end of the path.

Should that be "I'll cover"?

Quotebut the flakes surrounded her and exploded right under her nose.

Do you mean to say that she raised the shield, but at that point the flakes were already within the radius that the shell covers?

Various other battle banter: I'll be honest, I didn't really understand the 'potty training' quip... though later mention of it suggests that this is some kind of artefact from the manga, which I might just not be familiar with.

And Ryoga being mentioned not once but twice as not being able to find his way to where people are currently practically throwing pieces of mountain at each other nearby, may be a bit over the top. He can generally manage at least that much navigation, surely? The punchline for the joke is pretty great, I'll admit:

Quote"Ah, excuse me." A finger tapped Wuya on the shoulder. "I'm not quite sure where I am. Do you think it's going to rain here?"

Wuya turned, and—

WHAM! A red umbrella struck her in the ribs; the Captain crumpled like a tin can.

But the setup doesn't make sense. Perhaps I might be visualizing incorrectly how far away he is from the battle before this, or what kind of terrain is blocking his view, or something?

QuoteSorcerers tended to fight in smaller groups, but with this bare minimum party, Wuya was at a great disadvantage.

Isn't the logic here that the party is too large for Sorcerer tactics to work well, rather than too small ("bare minimum")?

QuoteThough its scorpion tale worked its way free,

Should be 'scorpion tail'.

QuoteIts droll ran down the cliffside

I racked my brain for a long time to figure out what kind of exotic creature has a body part called a "droll", until I realized that this probably means "drool".

Quote"My pets, please," said Henna, "go after them."

That's a confusing sentence. Is that meant as a command to the pets: "go after them!", or an invitation to the Amazons: "My pets. (sarcastic) Please, feel free to go after them."?

QuoteHis knees wobbled like they were made of popsicle sticks instead of sturdy bone, but he grabbed a metal bar pull himself up.

"metal bar pull himself up" -- there seems to be a word missing....

QuoteHe stared at the metal bars and saw nothing but an impenetrable barrier, one that refused to stay still even as he gazed at it intently. Such was the loss of orientation and strength from the burning chemical in the air.

The second sentence is a fragment; not sure, maybe you could join them together through a colon?

QuoteHe grabbed in two placed and snapped the wing bone in two.

"two placed" -- probably a typo....

A couple of more minor notes:

Quote" 'No point'?"

This is just a typographical quibble -- the large space between the double and single opening quotes looks kind of ugly in the HTML formatting.... I guess not much can be done about that, though.

QuoteBut most striking was the giant monstrosity that patrolled the room. It preened itself with a bird's head and beak. Its massive tusks disturbed the air whenever it moved. Its heavy, ape-like body rattled the room with each step it took.

For whatever reason, I'm suddenly reminded of the Forgotten Beasts in Dwarf Fortress. If I remember correctly, those are computer-generated with a random set of body parts much like the mutated creatures here.

General Comments

The first scene starts with the Sorcerers investigating the aftermath of the eruption. Rather than hinting vaguely at the priests being up to something, we see fairly quickly that they've been using Jyusenkyo water to mutate an army of horrific monsters -- but, to make for an interesting dilemma, they are doing so in the hope of ending their reliance on magic.

QuoteFrom high above, a brown, flaky substance descended upon the Sorcerers. As the flakes rubbed together, the air sparked, and the mixture ignited in a flurry of small explosions!

That's a pretty good way of resolving the whole argument about exploding batter. The description is quite specific and phrased in terms of what the explosion looks like, so I just get the mental image of the battle instead of being tempted to quibble about physics.

Wheatberries. I wonder if those are a reference to something?

QuoteTheir blood from their noses mixed with the melting ice on Ranma's fist, leaving a diluted pink spray.

I'm not 100% sure, but this feels like an increase in gore relative to the action so far (and the average for Ranma fanfic)... anyhow, that's your decision. The swearing later, on the other hand, is something Ranma first does in Chapter 2, I think, so that's not new?

The issue isn't necessarily that a given level of gore and swearing isn't appropriate, it's to make sure that the reader who starts the fic doesn't get a false impression and then surprised by things escalating midway. For whatever reason, blood spraying from a broken nose and shards of a terracotta bowl stuck in someone's face feels like a definite step into less cartoony territory compared to what came before.

Huh, Henna suggests that Ranma is an interesting subject to study... effects of Jyuusenkyo curses on magic. Something doesn't add up in what she's saying (intentionally, I suppose?) since from hints dropped earlier I was kind of guessing the Sorcerers already curse their own kind. I'm guessing that since the next place they take Ranma is to get attacked by several intelligent beasts, we're nowhere near the bottom of this particular rabbit hole....

(Reading to the end of the chapter: yeap. I believe this is what you call 'pretty fucked up'.)

Compared to this version, this is more clear right off the bat about the fact of the Sorcerer-priests doing their experimentation on animals for combat. The previous version had a very eerie feel with Ranma and just one priest trapped inside the mountain, but the hints there were, in retrospect, probably a bit too oblique and obvious at the same time. (It's difficult to describe... but I suppose at some point the reader starts to guess at what's going on and is tired of the author pretending like it's still very obscure? The old version was just barely edging towards that, I suppose.) This new version seems like a much better tradeoff. The dynamic between Wuya and Henna was also interesting to witness, being told in pantomime as it was; it's interesting how that forces a writer to put in details you otherwise don't get in a conversation. Ranma getting dragged in as a spy is another great complication.

So, this part of the fic seems to be going according to plan.

Now, on to the scene with Akane. This part of the fic gets just a short treatment in this chapter.... This version seems to acknowledge the fact that, by this point, Ranma and Akane's usual dynamic amounts to a stalemate; so, in the very first scene, Ranma tries some drastic honesty, so that things will either develop, or collapse, I suppose. That makes sense to me as a risk he'd eventually take. And, in terms of how it goes down, it already starts to make sense that Ranma would grasp at an excuse to temporarily put some distance between himself and Akane, for a chance to think things over or perhaps gather resolve. So, this seems a good start on a way to get the story the place it needs to go without overthinking things.

Ranma also has his realization at the end of the chapter as Kumkum is killed, so now we're effectively filling in the middle of this arc from both ends. That's not a bad structure to go with.

QuoteDo you mean to say that she raised the shield, but at that point the flakes were already within the radius that the shell covers?

Yes, precisely.  I'll try to clarify this point.

QuoteVarious other battle banter: I'll be honest, I didn't really understand the 'potty training' quip... though later mention of it suggests that this is some kind of artefact from the manga, which I might just not be familiar with.

It probably doesn't work with Wuya's perspective; hitting people with a toddler's potty is something Mousse has done before, so this was intended as a reference to that.  I've been doing a lot of research to try to make battle scenes more detailed and with more of a conscious effort to try to incorporate stuff from the manga.  A lot of the detail with Ukyo's fighting wasn't really in the original and it should've been.  Mousse was reduced to a few simple tricks with chains and stuff, and it wasn't really elaborate or detailed in the way I wanted.  So this was part of that effort, but since Wuya can't recognize the absurdity of what she's been hit with, it probably needs someone to call Mousse out on it more, or maybe it just doesn't need to happen.

QuoteAnd Ryoga being mentioned not once but twice as not being able to find his way to where people are currently practically throwing pieces of mountain at each other nearby, may be a bit over the top. He can generally manage at least that much navigation, surely? The punchline for the joke is pretty great, I'll admit:

Yeah, this is probably too much over the top.

Quote
Isn't the logic here that the party is too large for Sorcerer tactics to work well, rather than too small ("bare minimum")?

Yeah, will fix.

Quote
The first scene starts with the Sorcerers investigating the aftermath of the eruption. Rather than hinting vaguely at the priests being up to something, we see fairly quickly that they've been using Jyusenkyo water to mutate an army of horrific monsters -- but, to make for an interesting dilemma, they are doing so in the hope of ending their reliance on magic.

Yeah, I feel this version is much better just being direct about things.  As it was, one could be forgiven to think Ranma's efforts to survive in the overrun mountain weren't really relevant to the larger story.  In the end, I don't feel too bad for giving up on that version.  It sped everything up a bit, which is seldom a bad thing in a work of this size, and it only required a single scene out of Ranma's POV.  Since Wuya is going to be a more and more important character anyway in the future, that's not a bad thing either.

Quote
That's a pretty good way of resolving the whole argument about exploding batter. The description is quite specific and phrased in terms of what the explosion looks like, so I just get the mental image of the battle instead of being tempted to quibble about physics.

Yeah, taking a more stringent description of these exploding tempura flakes helped things along quite a bit.

Quote
Wheatberries. I wonder if those are a reference to something?

Nothing in particular.  Was looking for things that grow on the plateau and these seemed rather apt for the situation.

QuoteI'm not 100% sure, but this feels like an increase in gore relative to the action so far (and the average for Ranma fanfic)... anyhow, that's your decision. The swearing later, on the other hand, is something Ranma first does in Chapter 2, I think, so that's not new?

The issue isn't necessarily that a given level of gore and swearing isn't appropriate, it's to make sure that the reader who starts the fic doesn't get a false impression and then surprised by things escalating midway. For whatever reason, blood spraying from a broken nose and shards of a terracotta bowl stuck in someone's face feels like a definite step into less cartoony territory compared to what came before.

Yeah, I may try to dial it back a tad.  I got a funny comment about chapter 1 about Ranma cutting his knuckles ("why should a few punches cut his knuckles if he can get buried under 10 tons of rock and come out just a little pained?" or something like that).  I think it appeals to me to see that fighting does damage to people physically and the pain gives them an opportunity to reflect on what they've done, but there is such a thing as too much detail here, for sure.

As far as Ranma swearing... I dunno.  I got the impression he swears more (or says things equivalent to swearing) more than what some translations might indicate.  Will think on this point too, though.

QuoteHuh, Henna suggests that Ranma is an interesting subject to study... effects of Jyuusenkyo curses on magic. Something doesn't add up in what she's saying (intentionally, I suppose?) since from hints dropped earlier I was kind of guessing the Sorcerers already curse their own kind. I'm guessing that since the next place they take Ranma is to get attacked by several intelligent beasts, we're nowhere near the bottom of this particular rabbit hole....

(Reading to the end of the chapter: yeap. I believe this is what you call 'pretty fucked up'.)

I'd be interested in hearing about these incongruities to see if they were the ones I intended.

QuoteCompared to this version, this is more clear right off the bat about the fact of the Sorcerer-priests doing their experimentation on animals for combat. The previous version had a very eerie feel with Ranma and just one priest trapped inside the mountain, but the hints there were, in retrospect, probably a bit too oblique and obvious at the same time. (It's difficult to describe... but I suppose at some point the reader starts to guess at what's going on and is tired of the author pretending like it's still very obscure? The old version was just barely edging towards that, I suppose.) This new version seems like a much better tradeoff. The dynamic between Wuya and Henna was also interesting to witness, being told in pantomime as it was; it's interesting how that forces a writer to put in details you otherwise don't get in a conversation. Ranma getting dragged in as a spy is another great complication.

So, this part of the fic seems to be going according to plan.

Per my other comments, yeah, I feel this version is a lot more "with it" as far as pushing the story forward in a meaningful way.  Ranma escapes at last?  Check (at least so far as he only has to stop the channelers to get true freedom).  We see a little more about what Sindoor and the Sorcerers are trying to do?  Check.

The other one did dance around it quite a bit as a purposeful (but misguided) bit of misdirection.  Henna was supposed to come off as non-hostile and trustworthy, only to reveal herself as pretty insane and more dangerous in her intentions than Wuya ever would be.  A lot of that version's story was structured around settting up Henna as a less dangerous (and perhaps more trustworthy) adversary.  Pitting Ranma against the hostile world with Henna as a temporary ally was part of that.  The other thing was that that version was meant to probe Ranma's sense of helplessness.  The overrun mountain and the sense of isolation definitely did that, but I realized with the additional baggage of needing to explain what happened with Ranma and Akane in the past, it wasn't the right thing to be talking about.

So we have this version instead.  And it is good to see Wuya at odds with Henna a bit.  While I felt a little lost at times trying to find a good message for this version (settling, ultimately, on the ideas of pride and dignity and making choices to preserve them and the costs incurred to do so), I think it's something that better reflects on Ranma's past interactions with Akane and that probes at an aspect of their relationship (and part of how it broke down).

At least, I hope that's all how it works out...

QuoteNow, on to the scene with Akane. This part of the fic gets just a short treatment in this chapter.... This version seems to acknowledge the fact that, by this point, Ranma and Akane's usual dynamic amounts to a stalemate; so, in the very first scene, Ranma tries some drastic honesty, so that things will either develop, or collapse, I suppose. That makes sense to me as a risk he'd eventually take. And, in terms of how it goes down, it already starts to make sense that Ranma would grasp at an excuse to temporarily put some distance between himself and Akane, for a chance to think things over or perhaps gather resolve. So, this seems a good start on a way to get the story the place it needs to go without overthinking things.

Ranma also has his realization at the end of the chapter as Kumkum is killed, so now we're effectively filling in the middle of this arc from both ends. That's not a bad structure to go with.

Yeah...I think this is not really going to be resolved and put to bed until the final scene in that Ranma/Akane flashback storyline comes to fruition next chapter.  It's hard for me to feel confident about this aspect of the story until that's put to bed.

I'm not really sure I understand the "filling in the middle from both ends" part of your comment, but it sounds like a good thing.

Quote from: Muphrid on January 27, 2014, 12:58:47 AM
It probably doesn't work with Wuya's perspective; hitting people with a toddler's potty is something Mousse has done before, so this was intended as a reference to that.

Ah. It sounded strangely like one of those special artefacts the Ranma canon abounds in, which is why I was wondering if it had any special properties that it would make sense for Mousse to use it in combat....

Aside from that point of confusion, the use of a potty seems fine to me :-)

Quote from: Muphrid on January 27, 2014, 12:58:47 AM
Yeah, I may try to dial it back a tad.  I got a funny comment about chapter 1 about Ranma cutting his knuckles ("why should a few punches cut his knuckles if he can get buried under 10 tons of rock and come out just a little pained?" or something like that).  I think it appeals to me to see that fighting does damage to people physically and the pain gives them an opportunity to reflect on what they've done, but there is such a thing as too much detail here, for sure.

Conveying an impression of brutality without relying on gore is an art in itself, I think. Some of your later scenes with the monsters are nearer the mark -- e.g. what happens to Henna's leopard form is at once within the limit of what you'd expect from a 'grittier' version of the Ranma canon, but also shocking in the way I think you were going for. Blood spraying from noses, though.... eeenh. That somehow actually detracts from being able to take it seriously.

Random example that pops to mind of when gore does not equal grit: I remember a French comedy Le Magnifique about a popular author at a typewriter trying to write his latest trashy spy novel (pretty obviously poking fun at the James Bond novels), while various acquaintances and utility repairmen pop into the room distract him in Kafkaesque ways -- so he casts the repairmen as villains in his novel, taking petty imaginary revenge against them in ludicrously over-the-top scenes of violence. The violence had pretty much that quality -- tremendous amounts of Monty Python blood that stops being gory and crosses back over into just plain silly.

Quote from: Muphrid on January 27, 2014, 12:58:47 AM
As far as Ranma swearing... I dunno.  I got the impression he swears more (or says things equivalent to swearing) more than what some translations might indicate.  Will think on this point too, though.

Translating swearing between languages is tricky, because it works wildly differently in different languages. Some languages have swearwords that are riddled with salacious associations to disgusting or taboo topics -- English is like that to some extent. Other languages have swearwords that are considered equally strong, but are actually surprisingly 'clean'. Some Russians shout "horseradish!" where an English speaker would say "bullshit!" or "what the fuck?" -- obviously nowhere near as "dirty", but it's actually similarly "strong" and would not be used lightly. Russian teenagers also shout "pancake!" for some reason, though that's supposedly a mangled version of a much worse word. (For full disclosure, Russian has a second tier of swearing which is actually dirtier than English.)

I get the impression that Japanese also has a lot of 'clean' swearing: e.g. calling someone "kisama" has about as much punch as "m...f...", if not more, (you know what I mean), but none of the dirty associations, so that level of banter can actually be printed in a shonen manga. Whether that means you should actually translate those kinds of words into equivalently strong swearing, with the added dirty associations... is certainly a question, I guess.

Wow, uh... I'm really getting into unusual topics here >_>

Quote from: Muphrid on January 27, 2014, 12:58:47 AM
The other one did dance around it quite a bit as a purposeful (but misguided) bit of misdirection.  Henna was supposed to come off as non-hostile and trustworthy, only to reveal herself as pretty insane and more dangerous in her intentions than Wuya ever would be.

Yeah, she was just too creepy and eerie for that to work. The random unexplained appearance of the male form did not help any.

Quote from: Muphrid on January 27, 2014, 12:58:47 AM
While I felt a little lost at times trying to find a good message for this version (settling, ultimately, on the ideas of pride and dignity and making choices to preserve them and the costs incurred to do so), I think it's something that better reflects on Ranma's past interactions with Akane and that probes at an aspect of their relationship (and part of how it broke down).

Yeah; the message seems all right. I don't think it's something that you need to go to extreme efforts to instill a message, but the realization that Ranma should care about whether he does right or wrong, not what Akane thinks of him, seems essential to it.

Quote from: Muphrid on January 27, 2014, 12:58:47 AMOverall, though, it seems like this version is more promising than the last one, and I'm glad to get that monkey off my back then.  Not that there are plans for chapter 7 any time soon, but it'll be good to have this finished up.

I guess there's a bit of burnout from being sent through so many revisions? I feel kind of bad about the number of times I sent you to rewrite things, but at least I can say I've been honest about the things that struck me as good and bad....

(I have a bit of the same feeling myself about my own fic right now, but looking at where I started with the prologue to where I've ended up -- from something incoherent to a scene that I feel pretty satisfied with -- I hope the rest of the story can go through a similar process.)

In the end, I think the problems you were facing are a lot more straightforward to solve than in my case.