Soulriders 5.0: Legend of the Unending Games

Another experimental piece -- less so than normal for me.  It's also kind of simple in a lot of ways because I am attempting to beat writer's block, and....

...yeah.

Anyway.  This is a bit of an attempt to try and reach/appeal to two groups of readers, so I'd be vastly appreciative if I could find opinions for both.  It's targeted at gamers and at fans of Haruhi, and I really don't want to veer too much toward one side.  I think it should be possible to reach both....  But, well.  Here goes; somewhat less ambitious than my last one in some ways, so hopefully less likely to explode on the launch pad. <_<;

I had considered titling this 'the games we play', but it seemed too ominous, given I'm aiming for something more light-hearted, and the, er, should-be-silly intro. <_<;;;

Edit: Typos, etc.  Every time....

At a glance...

QuoteHer eyes go back to Haruhi, and I recall what Sasaki said last about admiring Haruhi, long aago

long ago

Quote

Really.... "Okay, fine-- You're a ... knight, and you're in the basement of a burning building. You need to lift a heavy timber to unblock a door so you can reach the stairs before you run burn up. Make sense?"

Drop the 'run'.

Quote

"I notice the same composition of a trio of adventurers, as well," Koizumi supplies thoughtfully. "They also seem to contain the same theme of projecting some form of enemy at the foes.

'Enemy' should be 'energy', I think.

I feel sorry for Koizumi. One night to learn how to run a module with someone with Haruhi's personality as a player? You could place bets about how long it takes to go off the rails.

Quote from: thepanda on June 17, 2012, 01:50:23 AMI feel sorry for Koizumi. One night to learn how to run a module with someone with Haruhi's personality as a player? You could place bets about how long it takes to go off the rails.

My main thought as well. That aside, I giggled openly at the image of Kyon dressing up as a wizard. Nice little touch there. Ota-kun too. As I read this, I can tell you're having lots of fun skewering gaming targets.

Quote"Do any of these books not make all the fans of these games look like drooling idiots?" I complain, shaking my head. "Even if the content is good, a cover like that would make anyone sensible roll their eyes."

Gamer art style preferences, CHECK!

Anyway, I like this but don't have any deep comments on it. It's really fun for what it is, and I mean that as a sincere compliment.

Quote from: thepanda on June 17, 2012, 01:50:23 AMAt a glance...

Thanks for the corrections. :)

Quote from: thepanda on June 17, 2012, 01:50:23 AMI feel sorry for Koizumi. One night to learn how to run a module with someone with Haruhi's personality as a player? You could place bets about how long it takes to go off the rails.

Though, given that, less time to worry about it could be a boon. :p

Thanks for the comments, Panda.

Quote from: Anastasia on June 17, 2012, 02:28:42 AMMy main thought as well. That aside, I giggled openly at the image of Kyon dressing up as a wizard. Nice little touch there. Ota-kun too. As I read this, I can tell you're having lots of fun skewering gaming targets.

It's hard to write about gaming without poking at some of the sterotypes.  Who hasn't played at least one game with That Guy?

Quote from: Anastasia on June 17, 2012, 02:28:42 AM

Quote"Do any of these books not make all the fans of these games look like drooling idiots?" I complain, shaking my head. "Even if the content is good, a cover like that would make anyone sensible roll their eyes."

Gamer art style preferences, CHECK!

Yeah, that part is kind of irritating.  I think it's probably on the decline, but enduring artwork cliches endure....  Some of the Exalted book covers are probably the most extreme examples that come to mind.

Haruhi: "We've totally got Mikuru-chan's next cosplay!"

...better to avoid, methinks. :p

Quote from: Anastasia on June 17, 2012, 02:28:42 AMAnyway, I like this but don't have any deep comments on it. It's really fun for what it is, and I mean that as a sincere compliment.

Great -- thanks for the feedback, Ko. :3

I almost posted an incredibly boring ramble about how I felt Haruhi was acting out of character by inviting Sasaki to hang out with the Brigade, but I'll chalk that one up to my not having read the later books. I'm not quite sure how much I'm missing from not having read them, but I hear the relationships between Haruhi, Sasaki and Kyon are expanded upon heavily. Apart from that minor (personal) irk, it's the same old brilliance in every aspect. It may just be due to the amount of explanation required for newcomers, but it does seem to lean a little more towards the gaming than the characters in a few places. At least the prologue shows that that won't be happening much during the actual gaming. I may be out of line in saying this because I'm sure you're already well aware, but in terms of actual feedback I would just say that you're writing a Haruhi story about gaming, not a gaming story with Haruhi characters. Few would blame you if you choose to ignore the specifics of the game system in favor of character interaction. (Not that I'm saying you should.)

Also:

QuoteI'm not sure how to really take that. I do admit, a long ago image of Haruhi and Sasaki together, hand-in-hand and working together.... I think I'd like that, though I somehow had the impression Haruhi would be opposed.
Then again, given what Koizumi's suggesting, such a thing may be far off --

Did you mean 'may not be far off' here? That just jumped out at me as being a bit odd.

Quote from: Squibidyflop on June 17, 2012, 03:14:20 AMI almost posted an incredibly boring ramble about how I felt Haruhi was acting out of character by inviting Sasaki to hang out with the Brigade, but I'll chalk that one up to my not having read the later books. I'm not quite sure how much I'm missing from not having read them, but I hear the relationships between Haruhi, Sasaki and Kyon are expanded upon heavily.

There's more explanation, but no real changes in those books.  I think I presented Haruhi's decision plausibly, but mileage may vary.  Koizumi reprises his old role as Mr. Exposition to explain why Haruhi made the decision in part, but beyond that, it's actually pretty straightforward.  Haruhi thought she was catching Kyon and Sasaki in something less innocent, and then made the offer motivated (initially) by guilt over snapping at Sasaki and being untrustful in general.

I probably could put more work into it, but I felt that Haruhi would find the context of 'playing a game' innocent enough, and the situation gives her the entire Brigade as support, too.  I'm not sure....  I'll see if anyone else trips over that, though I'm not sure how much I want to change it yet.

Still, something for me to keep an eye on.

Quote from: Squibidyflop on June 17, 2012, 03:14:20 AMApart from that minor (personal) irk, it's the same old brilliance in every aspect. It may just be due to the amount of explanation required for newcomers, but it does seem to lean a little more towards the gaming than the characters in a few places. At least the prologue shows that that won't be happening much during the actual gaming. I may be out of line in saying this because I'm sure you're already well aware, but in terms of actual feedback I would just say that you're writing a Haruhi story about gaming, not a gaming story with Haruhi characters. Few would blame you if you choose to ignore the specifics of the game system in favor of character interaction. (Not that I'm saying you should.)

It's Pathfinder, but I'm being intentionally vague, and want to use generalizations where possible, though may reference some things specifically (commoners destroying reality with limitless chickens, locate city bomb, etc.), but more than that the goal of the story is to explore RP as a tool of character growth.  Koizumi also lampshaded the fact that the game context allows for things that would not be acceptable in real life, so that's something I'll want to focus on.

I won't be making character sheets for any of the characters RP characters, anyway. :p

Quote from: Squibidyflop on June 17, 2012, 03:14:20 AMAlso:

QuoteI'm not sure how to really take that. I do admit, a long ago image of Haruhi and Sasaki together, hand-in-hand and working together.... I think I'd like that, though I somehow had the impression Haruhi would be opposed.
Then again, given what Koizumi's suggesting, such a thing may be far off --

Did you mean 'may not be far off' here? That just jumped out at me as being a bit odd.

Er, no, but I added a 'very' to make it clearer.  If you tripped over it, I can probably fix it. :p

Thanks for the reply! :)

I probably should have mentioned that I'm not the most perceptive of readers, so others will probably pick up on small things like Haruhi's reasons for inviting Sasaki without changing anything.

Quote from: Brian on June 17, 2012, 04:57:27 AM
Haruhi thought she was catching Kyon and Sasaki in something less innocent, and then made the offer motivated (initially) by guilt over snapping at Sasaki and being untrustful in general.

This completely cleared up my confusion. I've seen very little interaction between Haruhi and Sasaki in the books so far, but it makes perfect sense that Haruhi would be trying to make it up to her for something like that. Again, my error, no one else should have a problem with this.

Quote from: Brian on June 17, 2012, 04:57:27 AM
It's Pathfinder, but I'm being intentionally vague, and want to use generalizations where possible, though may reference some things specifically (commoners destroying reality with limitless chickens, locate city bomb, etc.), but more than that the goal of the story is to explore RP as a tool of character growth.  Koizumi also lampshaded the fact that the game context allows for things that would not be acceptable in real life, so that's something I'll want to focus on.

Yes, the possibility of Haruhi having to avoid using whatever crazy powers she will inevitably acquire in the game could draw some interesting parallels, while Kyon (and perhaps Koizumi) will seize the opportunity to discuss her powers with her without actually revealing them to her.

I must say I'm looking forward to more of this story to see what effect the role playing has on the characters, rather than just seeing two things I like being mashed together! :p

Well, I had some corrections, but Panda already mentioned them. So, impressions! I really liked the intro. It took me far too long to figure out Kyon's companion, but then it all made sense. The tone was pretty funny and entertaining.

Chapter 1 is pretty straightforward. A lot of setup. The interaction between Kyon and Sasaki seems more friendly than I recall, but it's been a bit since i've read 10/11. It does seem like Haruhi is changing, focusing on improving the brigade and herself (by interacting with Sasaki), while still going for fun for the brigade.

Anyhow looking forward to the beginning of the campaign.

Thanks for the feedback, JonBob.

I'm especially worried about portraying Sasaki correctly, and Haruhi as reasonably in-character -- most especially in the first chapter (I think the in medias res prologue gives me a bit of leeway, but I'm open to criticism on that front if someone thinks it's particularly off).  While I could try and defend the friendliness between Kyon and Sasaki, I'll instead ask what you would have expected instead, or what you feel might work better?

Well, I suppose my main point of confusion is why Kyon would call Sasaki "dear friend" even if she started it. Like, it might be rude, but Kyon doesn't seem like one to be overly swayed by peer pressure. I suppose, though, that once that point is made, that the rest flows out of it. I dunno, it just feels odd.

Well....  Okay, this is pretty straightforward.  The idea is Haruhi hears something that she can take out of context--  In this case, Kyon is calling Sasaki his 'dear' (anything, really), and he later clarifies 'friend', much to Haruhi's relief.  I could have Haruhi hear Sasaki's half of that, instead.

On the other hand, that makes it seem onesided, and I liked the angle of it (seeming) to come from Kyon, so that Haruhi demonstrates her strength as a character by keeping it together long enough for him to clarify.  I can see an argument for the other approach working, too (makes Kyon look a bit thick, but that's not really a new thing).

Alternately, it doesn't have to be 'dear friend' that Kyon says; he can say something else that can be misconstrued.  Probably just an offhanded remark that he and Sasaki are 'close', and then he can clarify 'close friends'.

...I could have sworn Kyon called her a dear friend in book eleven.  Nope, it's 'close friend', and Kyon vows that when he sees her next he'll call her that.  Okay, I'll make that change.

Chapter 2 posted in the first post of the thread.  I'm ... a bit nervous about the handling of Sasaki.  I hope the general lack of commentary is a sign I'm doing a reasonable job, instead of this being discarded because I'm so off-base? ^_^;;

If anyone's got objections or suggestions for how anyone (particularly Haruhi and Sasaki, but anyone else, as well) might be coming across as OOC, I'm open to that now, especially before it becomes a major effort to revise. >_>;  So, if you don't like something about it, now is the time to let me know! :p

Anyway, revisions of the prologue and chapter one also posted, but are almost entirely grammar/spelling corrections.

Initial impressions: didn't notice any glaring spelling/punctuation errors. Sasaki and Haruhi interaction is interesting; I'll have to give it another read-through to see what it might be. It's funny that Kyon knows there's something going on, but can't figure out the details. Not sure what to think of the character roles yet, but it's starting off pretty amusing.

I did notice one thing in chapter two:

QuoteNagato takes a seat to Nagato's side

Probably an error, unless her Disappearance-verse character is here as well. Hunh, I can only imagine how a game with the regular and alt!verse cast would go.

As far as content goes I haven't been saying anything because I've really found nothing to say besides I'm enjoying what you're doing with this, which sounds anemic. Sorry about that.

Quote from: Grahf on June 26, 2012, 04:18:04 AMI did notice one thing in chapter two:

QuoteNagato takes a seat to Nagato's side

Probably an error, unless her Disappearance-verse character is here as well. Hunh, I can only imagine how a game with the regular and alt!verse cast would go.

Heh.  Oops.  That should be Sasaki--  Thanks for catching that.

Quote from: Grahf on June 26, 2012, 04:18:04 AMAs far as content goes I haven't been saying anything because I've really found nothing to say besides I'm enjoying what you're doing with this, which sounds anemic. Sorry about that.

Okay, hopefully that means I'm on the right track!  Or ... fans of Sasaki's character were so put off they stopped at the prologue.

Well, when in doubt, do what Haruhi would do -- keep on going. :p

Thanks for the comments Grahf, JonBob.

QuoteNow, see, there is a role model you should look up to! A younger sister should be like a cat -- just as cute, but far more quiet. If her outbursts were restrained to purring in contentment and the occasional quiet mewl, could I complain that much?

I feel horrible for laughing at this line.

Nice chapter, though it did feel entirely like setup. Nothing wrong with that. I do have to second Grahf - it's fun but it's hard to say much about. It's not bad, just fun and stands on its own merits.

Alright -- thanks for the feedback.  I think I need to figure out how to make the next chapter a bit less fluff and more engaging, but it's good to know I'm at least not doing awfully. :D

Another chapter, added to the first post.  Hmm, pacing is a bit slower than I'd planned.  The first arc (of four) is probably going to run another chapter or two.  Hopefully the others will go a bit faster.

As always, feedback on everything (especially Sasaki's characterization) is appreciated. :)

It does seem to be building up a bit, but it's a nice taste of action and an interesting conversation.

Thanks for the comments, JonBob.

Well, I'm enjoying this so far.  I find the switching between "in character" and "out of character" interesting, with the way most "players" are really just doing "self inserts" with a fantasy veneer. ^_^  That's at least the way the Brigade and Sasaki's characters "in game" and "in story" come across.  The way Sasaki and Haruhi seem to be carefully working out how they feel about each other and their connection to Kyon provides a lot of amusement, especially when they're on the same wavelength, as on the subject of summer homework. ^_^
I like Yuki's "in character" comments after the first goblin battle, as she chides Haruhi for injuring Kyon's Bard in the heat of battle.  I wonder, could this be a sign of growing assertiveness stemming from the events of "Disappearance?"  With at least 3 people who are able to influence reality/probability sitting around that table, I wonder if we'll see some more interesting dice shenanigans?  Well, since Yuki has gotten the hint, she may prevent Haruhi and Sasaki from unconscious meddling as well. 

So far, the two people one might have expected to be striking more sparks appear to be taking care not to cause a fuss.  Haruhi and Sasaki are both determined to get along with the other after all, and both seem to be avoiding pushing for dominance.  We'll see how that works out as the study and game session continue.  It would seem that the chance of something "supernatural" occuring should Haruhi get too involved in the game with Sasaki in the party.  Unless, Sasaki deliberately tries to get into the spirit of make believe, and relax her stance on rationality.  Hmm, something like "Jumanji" happening?   =P

Hum. 

*finishes chapter 0*

Sudden start.

hum.

*reads  chapter 1*

*finishes*

Hmm.

I admit, the way the scenes flow makes it hard for me to stay focused.  Once it gets passed the Sasaki scene, it becomes easier, but areas before there feel floaty, like they're just starting and finishing in a void.  In a sense, the clearest scene in a way is the last one.

This though is not useful feedback, so you should discard it.  Nyu.

Quote from: GeshronTyler on July 07, 2012, 06:35:44 PMWell, I'm enjoying this so far.  I find the switching between "in character" and "out of character" interesting, with the way most "players" are really just doing "self inserts" with a fantasy veneer. ^_^  That's at least the way the Brigade and Sasaki's characters "in game" and "in story" come across.  The way Sasaki and Haruhi seem to be carefully working out how they feel about each other and their connection to Kyon provides a lot of amusement, especially when they're on the same wavelength, as on the subject of summer homework. ^_^

I'm aiming for the players' characters to basically be like them because they're new to RP -- from what I recall, most first characters go along that line.  Sasaki's not much RPing yet, either, but then again, unlike most games, they were assigned their characters and backstories.  I also didn't want to force a reader to learn an entirely new cast for the game, so....  >_>;;

There are some tradeoffs there, yeah.  My hope is to balance that out with the mostly slice-of-life/slower-paced drama and character interactions.  Sasaki and Haruhi are kind of key, as you point out.

Quote from: GeshronTyler on July 07, 2012, 06:35:44 PMSo far, the two people one might have expected to be striking more sparks appear to be taking care not to cause a fuss.  Haruhi and Sasaki are both determined to get along with the other after all, and both seem to be avoiding pushing for dominance.  We'll see how that works out as the study and game session continue.  It would seem that the chance of something "supernatural" occuring should Haruhi get too involved in the game with Sasaki in the party.  Unless, Sasaki deliberately tries to get into the spirit of make believe, and relax her stance on rationality.  Hmm, something like "Jumanji" happening?   =P

Actually, of this story's goals, one of them is to poke fun at every other 'Haruhi picks up a tabletop RPG' story I've read.  All of those go to the idea of Haruhi turning the game into reality.  As interesting as a Haruhi/Guardians of the Flame fusion may be, that's a bit too gritty, and it's been done a lot anyway.  Instead, there won't be a 'and the fantasy overtakes reality' bit, and the story will focus on the second goal:

Role playing games as a tool of character growth.  I think it's got a lot of potential, so that's where I'm primarily going to be focusing.

Thanks for the feedback!  :)

Drac: We'll chat in meatspace over dinner on that one, if you're up to it later. :p

I like this chapter a lot, as well as all the little touches of in character versus out of character actions.  I particularly like how Nagato stood up to Haruhi and lectured her IC, and navigated the consequences OOC. That was an inspired bit of meta juggling.

I wonder if the IC powers and perceptions of the characters may bleed into the real world thanks to Haruhi. Those lines about Kyon's perceptions planted that seed in my head as I read.

Excellent.  Thanks for the feedback, Ko.  I'm really trying to play on the IC/OCC interactions -- and character interactions in general -- so that working is awesome.

As far as Kyon's perceptions, he's generally more perceptive than he lets on.  If there is bleed-over, it won't be from Haruhi's power, but to (again :p) show RP as a tool for character growth.


Consider this an anthem to counter the classic Jack Chick tract. :)

Another chapter in the first post.  Trying to see if WAFFY friendship building escapism can overpower the depression!

...if not, I'll be writing a serious bummerfic later to try and excise those stupid feelings. ._.;

Nice update overall. It's a bit slow moving, but it's fine as long as you accept what this story is about. Now that you've established them knowing the basics of the game world, I'd recommend making further snippets about it worthwhile. Character growth, genre jokes, that sort of thing. Make the story snippets count, yeah?

The bits with Sasaki and Kyon early on were by far the most interesting parts of the chapter. I really liked how they went back and forth. It's an interesting contrast with Haruhi, one I feel doesn't favor her. Maybe it's own tastes biasing my point of view, but right now Sasaki seems way more likeable than Haruhi.

Was Koizumi being late plot relevant at all or unrelated?

I can't wait to see how they'll deal with character death or a TPK. That'll be something to see.

Thanks for the feedback, Ko!

When you talk about the story snippets, do you mean the in-game bits, or the out-of-game bits?

Hmm....  I don't want the story to 'favor' Haruhi or Sasaki over the other.  I want Sasaki to come across as more demure and reserved, and Haruhi as energetic and gung-ho -- but both of them to be likable.

Koizumi's lateness was just happenstance; thought that'd be a fun 'slice-of-life' aspect to have it happen and not be a huge deal.  Heh, TPK.  :p  Well, we'll see how that goes.

Thanks again for the feedback!

At the beginning, Kyon mentions thinking too much about Haruhi's and Sasaki's conversation, but then the next part re-hashes that. Is it one incident or two?

Also, unsure what this says about the chapter or me, but I get to somewhere around the middle then i'm at the end, so there's some TIME KOMPRESSION goin' on there (or it just flows fast). I think that yeah, having the actual RP sessions be a bit less wordy, and i'm still waiting for when we get to the prologue.

As for the character interactions, Sasaki seems quite cheerful, Haruhi seems normal, but Kyon seems to be a bit less distracte by Mikuru than normal. Like, there's the 'carrot and stick' line, but that seems to be the extent of his distraction by her. Overall, though, I do like the casual inclusion of Sasaki into the group.

Hmm, the part where he mentions their conversation and rehashes it....  I'm not sure what you mean?  The first scene is him dwelling on it, which follows from the previous chapter.  The next is Sasaki waking him up, which mirrors when Haruhi went to wake him.

And Kyon hasn't been paying as much attention to Mikuru.  I ... could revise that and have Mikuru distract him a bit, but I'm wondering if it's okay to say that Sasaki/Haruhi interactions have been distracting him?

Beyond that -- enjoying writing Sasaki and the gang.  She's a fun character; wish we could have seen more of her (and ... in a more positive light than, 'let me do the mental heavy lifting, Kyon').

QuoteIn either case, I spend the entire night sleeplessly wrestling with the whole idea. Planets? Particles?

Easier for me to imagine us as simply people.

After sluggishly being dragged out of bed, I trudge to the shower to try and wake myself up. It's there that a glimmering of understanding reaches me.

QuoteAfter wrestling with the whole thing for some time, and not really getting much further than suffering a lack of sleep -- precious sleep! Who knew a combined attack from those two could hit so hard?

It's this part that confuses me. In the first it seems like he's thought about it all night, then gets up for the morning. Then it goes back and says that he had a restless night again.

Oh, I see.  That second scene is a few days later.

I'll make it more obvious.