For specifics...
If anyone's interested, this would be a forum based (because I'm only irregularly on IRC and that's not good for someone DMing) run in 3e D&D. It would be run (at least at first) mainly in the Underdark. If enough interest is shown, I may consider expanding the game to move into adventures in the land above. This will be a game for as few as 4 and as many as 9 players (cause that's about as big as our group).
Mainly, what I'm doing is kinda using the excellent roleplayers in this wonderful forum to help me test the viability of a campaign that I'm planning to run with my table-top D&D group. Now the group that I'm playing with has no where near the elite gaming skills of members of this forum, but I figure if I can chip off some of the more obivious problems here, then maybe we won't have such a god awful problem in the group.
Now, for some details...
"For over 15 years, Lain d'Nirae has traveled the world above the Underdark she spent her childhood in, training and struggling to achieve the abilities that would allow her to return to the Underdark and accomplish the greatest goal of her life so far. To either rescue her mother, Nirae d'Elesandr, from the Drow that have long held her victim, or avenge her death at their hands.
For long years, she gathered to her all rumors and comments that she could get from the Underdark about her missing mother. Each lead she tracked back as close as she could to their source, only to be dissappointed at the bloody end of her travels. Then, at the end of a trail that led her almost into the clutches of the SpiderQueen herself, she learns of a lead that could lead her into the most dangerous place at all... the home of the Daughters of Lollith.
Now, she has gathered to her a group of adventures that aren't adverse to decending into those tretcherous depths in search of treasure or magic. But, she's conviently failed to mention that they are actually heading into one of the most dangerous places in the Underdark, putting them in harm's way risking more than just life and limb, but also their souls."
Well... that's the basics. If enough are interested, I'll expand further.
Hmmm... What's the level range for the characters? Any prohibitions on basic classes or PrCs? Race restrictions? Aligment? 3.0 or 3.5?
Also what kind of a posting rate do you expect? I personaly can't promise much more then one or two posts per day. Even if it is to tick off Lolth.
First off, it will be straight 3.0. I view 3.5 as merely an update that could have been released via update leaflets and is just a way for WotC to try and gouge more cash out of a group that is notoriously lacking in it, and thus is a significant waste of money. As a result, I refuse to use any of the materials for it. ^_^;
Posting rate will be satisfactory at one or two per day per player, unless a reason is given for absence prior to the absence (or _very_ shortly following).
Level range is mainly between 10th and 18th level. There are a couple of higher (20 to 30+) level characters in the tabletop campaign this will eventually be ran in, but they are ran by the other two members of the DM team (there are three of us who take turns running adventures) and are effectively more like NPCs. Most of the player characters are 10th to 18th, and I'd like to stay in that level area to try and avoid going too hard or too easy on them.
There are no prohibitions against any basic classes, though prestige classes will be allowed only following a review. Racial restrictions are few, and are mainly in that there really aren't any "exotics", meaning try and keep it to the basic races (elven, human, dwarven, gnomish, halfling, half-orc). If you feel that you absolutely must play an "exotic" (anything that isn't a basic race), then you'll need to come up with a plausible backstory for your character as well as look forwards to accepting a few disadvantages to balance the character out.
Personally, I usually restrict characters' alignments to nothing worse than neutral in the good to evil scale, but as the campaign that this will later be run in has characters that are mostly neutral to evil (no good for the most part), I feel that putting in an alignment restriction would be pointless. Be advised though that Lain d'Nirae (who will be an NPC) is a half-drow (with the hatreds that go with that, both from drow (for existing) and everyone else (for being half-drow)) who is a true neutral ranger specializing in the Underdark and speed/stealth techniques. The person you are searching for is her mother, Nirae d'Elesandr, who is a chaotic neutral ranger who speacializes in sea-faring and survival techniques. Many of the NPCs in the Underdark are evil, of various alignments.
I won't have everything prepared to run until next week at the earliest (I need to get Lain's sheet back from one of my co-DMs for one), but if people want to start sending in characters for review and acceptance, that'd help us get started sooner.
Oh... and as some who've seen me RP in here (and on IRC) before may have noticed, I have no problems with things becoming "political" so long as it stays _in_ game and doesn't come outside of it. In other words, make alliances and what not if you will, just be advised that like in that goofy TV show "Survivor", an alliance doesn't nessicarily mean loyalty.
Vauge Intrest, j0.
Clarification Required! O_O
1) Level's 10-18? That's, uh, quite a gap. Can we round it off somewhere?
2) Therefore, how much cash do we start with?
3) You're not somewhere where I can talk to you, dammit. AIM! IRC! ;_;
The 10 to 18 range is cause that's the lowest to highest levels for the group. But if you want more specific, let's halve it and say 14th level.
Cash-wise is going to vary via class. Going by the base set + 50 (modified by level) gold should be a good rule, but you'll need to take out your equipment from the total if it's higher than say... 300 gp.
And, I'm around on IRC, just not very often. ^_^;
Oops! I forgot earlier! There are no psiconics (sp) in this campaign. I forgot they exist in D&D 3e. ^_^;;;
Ooh! Ooh! Can I play?
I'd like to be a sword singer of Eilistraee, please!
Oh, yes. Character generation? Point buy would probably be the best to give everyone an equal chance...
I'm vaguely interested as well, I'd like to know which character creation method you're going to use.
Cy's right. Point buy is going to work best with this. Give me a day or so and I'll figure out the base amount of points.
I'd do it now, but at the moment I'm kinda dealing with the results of sleep deprevation added to way too much overtime. ^_^;
I should have it by tomorrow though. ;p
Clarification on the money issue; we're getting the base starting cash plus a little extra?
Does that mean we'll only afford basic starting equipment, like your average longsword and whatnot? 'cos if we're tanking around in level 14ish characters, that seems a little low for what would be hardened adventurers. >_>
I'm guessing she means level 14 starting money. The chart is somewhere in the DMG.
Yeah, it's $150,000. I'm just a little confused by the 300gp remark. >_>
I read it as 'Anything under 300gp is standard equipment and free.' Though I'll wait for a clarification too.
Sorry it took me so long to get back to this. I got slammed with a couple of double shifts at work. -_-;
Alright. Clarifications. Since I left things entirely too vauge. ^_^;
Allowed Races: Human, Elven, Halfling, Darwven, Gnomish, Half-Orcish, Half-Elven (please specify subrace for half-breeds)
Non-Allowed Exotics: (Please note that these are exotic that will be not allowed for any reason, no matter how good it might be.) Giant-kin (any), Alaghi, Bugbear, Centaur, Minotaur, Ogre, Saurial, Wemic, Demon (any), Dragon (any), Outsider (any), or any half-breed of any of these.
Allowed Classes: Barbarian, Bard, Cleric (must specify deity), Druid (only one though), Fighter, Monk, Paladin (this one is a maybe, I'm not sure if it'll work in this adventure yet. No mount), Ranger, Rouge, Wizard.
Non-Allowed Classes: (Please note that these are classes or prestige classes that will not be allowed for any reason due to too much power.) Sorceror, Necromancer, Adept, Mage, Arcane Duelist. More may be added to this list.
Character Creation: Standard Point Buy System. All abilities start at 8, and are modified with 28 points to spread out amongst them. 1 to 1 ratio for up to 14 then 2 points per rank.
Feats: Subject to approval. Start with 5 feats.
Skills: Subject to approval. Start with level 14 skill points for your character. Max class ranks 17, cross-class 8.5.
Hit Points: Start with max for level 14 of your character. However, if you really want to roll for your hit points, I'm not going to argue with a lower amount. (This number is just for my reference so I can figure your injuries.)
Money & Equipment: Start with level 14 gold. All equpiment under 300 gp is considered previously acquired equpiment, anything over 300 gp is subtracted from starting gold. Equpiment subject to approval.
That should help things a bit. Oh... and a side note. There will be a lot of travel in underground areas. You can play a tall character, but realize that they will be uncomfortable at least once or twice on this adventure. ^_^;
Character Creation: Standard Point Buy System. All abilities start at 8, and are modified with 28 points to spread out amongst them. 1 to 1 ratio for up to 14 then 2 points per rank.
I assume you get the bonus 1 point/4 levels as well, for another 3 points.
Feats: Subject to approval. Start with 5 feats.
Plus any bonuses for class? And do you get the extra feat if you're a human?
Quote from: "Prince Herb"I assume you get the bonus 1 point/4 levels as well, for another 3 points.
The 28 points is including the 1 to 4 leveling bonuses. 25 points is the base amount.
QuotePlus any bonuses for class? And do you get the extra feat if you're a human?
Hmmm... well, you'd get your class feats, of course. And yes, humans do get a bonus feat. I can't say I'm aware of any bonus feats given to classes beyond the class feats, though. >_>
Ooook... You're allowing wizard, but in the next paragraph you ban both a specialised version of a wizard and the wizard itself. A mage is just another name for a wizard.
Personaly I don't care about the Sorceror as I find it underpowered, but I don't see a reason to ban any of the base classes. :/
I'd rather have 25 base points to spend and then add in the bonus points for levels afterwards.
As the way you have it right now limits us to increasing our highest stat only 1 point (provided it's 14<), instead of the 3 we should be able to.
Cy, I'm referring to the Mage prestige class of the Sorceror. Perhaps I'm thinking of the Magus... >_>;;
But, I have a problem with the Sorceror class mainly because it uses Charisma as it's base for magical ability instead of Wisdom or Intellegance. I'm sure others will disagree with me on this, but I unfortunately have always seen charisma as being about personal attractiveness, force of personality, and charm. As a result, it disturbs me that a character with low Intellegence and/or Wisdom could be a powerful Sorceror due to a high Charisma score. It strikes me as being effectively something like someone going out and being like "Hey, you! You're a complete IDIOT but you can unleash powerful magics because you're a PRETTY BOY!"
It bothers me. And I just refuse to have to deal with the idiocy that comes of it. Necromancers are another one that end up with a high amount of idiocy in my experience. Having the ability to raise dead doesn't mean one _should_ raise dead, and very few realize the difference. Also, I highly doubt anyone here would really want to deal with the heavy penalties associated with being a Necromancer in the campaign this adventure is designed to fit into (-3 to 5 points permanent loss to charisma due to the undead around the character and sheer odor from being around dead things so long for one).
As a result, I don't really want to deal with either of them in this adventure.
You obviously have the same mindset about Necromancers as most people then. A Necromancer deals with life and death, negative and positive energy. The problem is that most people think that means having undead minions. My character was going to be a Necromancer... But without the whole undead thing.
I won't get into an argument over the sorceror, but I think I might be dropping out of this game since I can't play the character I wanted.
I've taken a look at the #sr logs and I must say, you need to either state all the house rules for the game ahead of time, or stick with the basic game as printed. So far you're the only one who knows all the rules and the rest of us are trying to create characters using a completely diffrent set from yours apparently.
I can also see the reason why you want to ban certain classes like the Necromancer... Except the fact that it seems to be a custom class in your game. It would be really helpful if we just stuck to the official stuff as it makes it easier for us to find the info. All of us at least own the PHB.
Plus if you do talk about a class, try and get it's full correct name to avoid confusion. :/
Charisma also measures internal confidence, self-control, and how you project yourself to others. It actually makes sense for it to relate to a spellcasting class.
I also think it makes sense for it to determine Will saves, but that's a balance issue, and neither here nor there.
At present, though, I'm not sure I agree with most of what you're saying about magic-users. Whence comes this animosity?
Personally, I don't have a problem with Necromancers provided that I can guarentee that I'm playing with people that know how to RP one without getting idiotic about it. Now, true, the people I'd be dealing with here are most likely to be able to do this.
However, as I've stated several times earlier, what I'm doing here is trying fine-tune a adventure to be used within a table-top campaign. In the campaign this will later be set in, the players tend to range from decent RPers to completely inept, are juvenile in behavior and RPing ability, and are, for the most part, complete beginners in RPing. The classes I've listed as not being allowed are the classes which aren't allowed in the campaign. Besides the Sorceror base class, which I also disagree with because of how it's set up in 3e, and the Necromancer which I asked them to disallow in the campaign of a reason which will be made obivious, for the most part all of these were determined prior to my being brought into the campaign as one of the DMs.
I was brought into the campaign as a DM in order to balance the DM styles of the other two players, because I happen to focus more on RPing than on dice rolling. But, I was brought in about half way into the first adventure, instead of at the beginning of the second adventure as we had originally planned, in order to put something of a balance into the level of juvenile behavior being exibitied by the group. I asked that the Necromancer class be made incredibly difficult to deal with, or have lots of disadvantages, because there was a player, who knew _nothing_ about how to RP well, who was trying to create an undead army. In the Underdark.
Now that player decided to not have the Necromancer live, so he made him perform a "selfless act". Aka, he drank something that would make him phyiscally explode and promptly hugged the undead supermonster (I can't remember it's name right now, I'd have to check the logs) and blew up. Then the other two DMs let him become a monk, and I just kept my mouth shut because really, monks would have a hell of a time later on.
Now, I'm trying to test a new adventure, and I'm trying to keep it close to the campaign. However, if this group only gets through because a Necromancer is along, it won't fit in the campaign. Of course if this group barely squeeks through it sure as hell won't make it through either. -_-;
Hmm... alright. I believe that with this group I won't have to deal with the Munchkins of the tabletop, so I'm going to allow the Necromancer with the provision that no more than two or three undead ever be raised at any given time, and that they must not be higher than third or forth level.
BTW, my animosty towards magic-users is directly related to the idiots who've played magic-users in my past experience of RPing, mostly tabletop RPing. Mainly it's probably because one of the most forgotten unspoken rules with them is often "Don't cast area damaging effects, like fireball into the middle of a battle!". When you loose three or four of your favorite and best characters to YOUR wizard's spells, especially when said wizard keeps surviving and is played by a damn Munchkin, you quickly develop an animosity towards magic users. Especially the Munchkinesque ones that I seem to attract. -_-;
I still have no intention to allow Sorcerors though. Yes, there are logical resaonings on why I should, but the Charisma thing bothers me too much. ^_^;;;
I would be very interested in giving this a go... now I just need to figure out how to make a character. *sweatdrop* Is there room still available?
Quote from: "Xaldaran"I'd rather have 25 base points to spend and then add in the bonus points for levels afterwards.
As the way you have it right now limits us to increasing our highest stat only 1 point (provided it's 14<), instead of the 3 we should be able to.
In reading what I have, and based off of my experience with creating one character for 3rd edition so far, I unfortinately have to agree with Xaldaran. Going with a base of 28 instead of 25 + 3 level advancements significantly lowers stat potential.
Of course... that may be your original intention. ^^;
Your anecdotes lead me to believe that your problems stem from the players and not the classes, and thus you should probably be trying to find better ones rather than make a game for them which is going to get fucked up *anyway*.
Rather than limit choice for mature gamers, you should just apply boot to people who screw around. Take them outside the game and have a talk to them. Whatever. The GM administers in-game balance and adjudicates, true, but some problems won't be solved by excessive ruling. Such as the whole specialist wizard thing; what's with a specialist mage only casting spells from their own school? What's the reasoning behind it?
I don't really get the charisma thing, but that's a fair enough ruling either way. Why not just have another stat determine it? Wisdom would probably suit.
Hmm. Maybe you should just make a list of problems you have with the basic system, and create solutions based off the fact that you're going to be dealing with people who know who to play, and not mental reprobates.
I see the rodent got to the main point before I did. You can't try to fix the game by extra rules. You need to work on the players themselves. If you help them get better as players, later on you won't have to be so annoyingly anal with the extra rules.
And since you're so fond of stories of your players being bad, here is one from the latest session of the game IY-chan and I go to. We have a player who's fairly new to the whole D&D thing. He has some experience in 3rd, but that's not really helping him in a mix of 1st/2nd ed. That's not a problem, we're willing to help teach him. The problem is his attitude. We have been attacked during the night, and his character has been knocked out in two rounds. He wasn't dead, but he was treating the character as dead because he figured the creature would keep attacking him the next round and was starting a small tantrum. It didn't even have a chance as it was killed. But the good part came after the combat. Our current DM, we have two DMs, straight out said "Look, if that's how you will behave, I don't want you to come back next week." That made him shut up and rethink his actions. He was much better for the rest of the evening. We'll see if he remembers it next week, but at least now it's in the open.
As for disliking wizards because of what the player did... That's incredibly foolish. Educate the player on the fine art of choosing spells wisely instead of complaining about the class.
For your information, any wizard specialised in Necromancy that I play, will actually dislike undead... Because his choice spells don't work on them.
CyMage
I think I'd suggest just ditching the special rules designed to contain your playing group and see what happens. This is a test-run, so it won't matter too much, right?
Hmm...
Herbie's got a point. Alright. Consider the class bans gone. Sorceror class will be based upon Wisdom instead of Charisma. Exotics are still going to be severely limited, but as a rule, consider them strictly forbidden if they're a Large size creature or stand on average at over 6.5 feet as per the Monsterous Compendium. All other Exotics will be on a case by case bases, but there will _not_ be allowed more than two in the party.
Point buy is twenty-five plus three. Equipment is still free if under 300gp but at cost if above that, and yet subject to approval. Character is overall subject to approval, of course. Specialization of Wizards are strictly limited to the rules for them set out in the Player's Manual and DMG for 3e.
Question: The setting *isn't* Faerun, right? It's just the generic D&D fantasy module, or is there anything special about the world we should know?
As far as I've seen the most exotic of us is the rodent for choosing a subrace of elf... That isn't a drow... So I don't think that rule needs to be restated.
No, the setting isn't specificly Faerun. It's set in the Underdark, but I'm just using that as a handy name for the cavernous realm of the drow and the other dezenins of the deep.
Nothing real special about the world beyond that you might like to know that I have a perchent for "borrowing" creatures from Faerun and other D&D worlds, such as Ravenloft and Oriental Campaigns.
Here's a quick character sheet I made.
http://3ep.rpgprofiler.net/3ep/view.php?id=13416
Alright. It looks good as it is, though if you have a link or information about the Sword Dancer class (I'm assuming it's a PrC), I'd appreciate if you could send it to me. I'm not real familiar with it, and as I'm assuming it's the reason that your classes of cleric and fighter don't cancel parts of each other out (the weapon restriction that is).
Oh, that reminds me, if someone wants to accept the weapon restrictions that go with it, I'll allow the feat "Weapon Bond" (or something of that nature in the naming area). It gives you bonus for using a specific, named, weapon, but you loose those bonuses with any other weapon, even if it's the same type. And if your bonded weapon becomes lost, broken, or stolen, and kept from you for a period over three weeks (I believe), then you loose the bond and have to start all over. (It's in the Netbook of Feats (the latest one will have it.) which is technically a 2e book, but I can make it work with 3e.) If someone wishes to use it, then their bonded weapon (which _must_ have a name) will not count against the equipment cost. However, I would strongly recommend looking it up.
Also, for feats and skills not listed in the Player's Guide or DMG, please tell me where I can find them or send me a email with the rundown on it, just to make sure we're all on the same pages.
http://www.3eprofiler.net/3ep/view.php?id=13428
Incantatrix (PrC) and Greater Ironguard (a spell) can both be found in Magic of Faerun.
Greater Spell Penetration and Spellcasting Prodigy (both feats) can be found in the Forgotten Realms core book.
As an aside, Priss, can you lay down some times when you'll be on IRC or something, so we can catch you? That'd be really handy, because we could clear up issues quickly; not just now, but during the game, too.
I'm afraid I'm online kind of randomly right now. The hazards of living with the old folks and working night shift. I'll try to get into IRC more often, but I can't really promise anything until I finalize on my own place. ^_^;
That was one of the changes between 2e and 3e ; clerics now get all simple weapons proficiencies, rather than a selection of crushing weapons. Fighters get all simple and all martial WPs, so unless their god thinks otherwise, fighter/clerics can use anything. The bastard sword is the chosen weapon of Eilistraee, so I took that as an Exotic WP.
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=fr/fx20020503ex1 for a writeup of Eilistraee.
The PrC is in Faiths and Pantheons pp205-206, and some of the domain spells she gets are in the Forgotten Realms campaign setting.
Armour use - most of the supernatural abilities apart from spell casting can only be used when wearing light or no armour, and are subject to arcane spell failure. They can't be used with medium or heavy armour, or any shield.
Attune a sword - takes a tenday of holding or wearing a given sword for at least 8 hours a day. Only one sword can be attuned at a time, for any given effect [sword song, sword dance, etc], but a single sword can be attuned for more than one effect.
Sword song - attuned sword sings heroic songs giving the sword dancer [or itself, if dancing] a +2 morale bonus to hit and damage, and the sword dancer a +3 morale bonus against mind-affecting spells and effects. Ability can be used for [class level + Cha bonus] rounds/day.
Moonlights - create at will [as a free action] small lights, like those produced by a dancing lights spell. Can move no more than 5' from the sword dancer, and no more than [class level] can exist at one time.
Sword dance - attuned sword can be used as if it has the dancing property, up to [class level] times/day.
Maiden's Sword - attuned sword may be enchanted as if via the Craft Magic Arms and Armour feat.
Spellsong - the sword dancer may spontaneously cast prepared spells up to 6th level as domain spells.
There are a couple of abilities not described here because they're pretty obvious, and one [Sword shield] that the sword dancer only gets at class level 10.
Here's my prospective character.
http://www.3eprofiler.net/3ep/view.php?id=13420
Hmmm... looks good Rat, Xal.
I think I need to reiterate that Nirae is done there somewhere and _Lain_ (her daughter) is the one who gathered the adventurers together.
^_^;
It's her own fault for having a confusing name.
>_>
I hereby pronounce this game Dead. The funeral service will be held in December, for any who wish to apply.
In other news, my post count just went up by 1. I am a sad loser. Help me. Please. ;_;
Here, Ratty, take this Postaholics Anonymous flier. They can help you, if no one else can.
*stumbles into the room and peers around with blood-shot eyes*
Urk... I hate overtime. I do. I absolutely despise it. And yet... I keep working it. WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME???! Probably has something to do with how nice it is to make 15 dollars an hour. ^_^;
HOWEVER. Provided there's a place to actually start and run this game here (I know there is somewhere, but I am seriously sleep-deprived at the moment and can't think of it), we should be set to go on this coming Monday. Why then? Because at the moment I have my hands rather full working on the big family gather/dinner for Thanksgiving. As of Monday, everything should be cleared up to the sane levels again.
Of course, I do happen to have the starting post typed up, so if someone could direct me towards a place to put it and start things running, if could start on Friday instead.
It could be created by contacting any of the admins (such as myself) and asking for a gaming board (as everyone does). It is miraculous how doing this acquires one.
Dracos
And you see, that is one of the reasons why it's good to get some sleep. Sleep Dep makes you Stupid. ^_^;
Alright, I'll be doing that. ^_^;;;
I got my character finished, just need to grab it from my old computer which is completely unpluged. Didn't get a chance to transfer anything from the old comp to the new one yet. :/
Sorry, Priss, but I've got to drop. Sudden time constraints, and another game that's started. Sorry, again. :/
*coughs*
As a suggestion, it might be a good idea to contact me and get your game started before your players totally vanish from boredom. =)
Dracos
Um... Drac? I sent you an email almost a week ago. ^_^;
I've also been talking to Rez... but apparently without production. -_-;
I check my emails pretty much daily. I have not received an email from you. You can try resending, pm'ing, or just posting the data here.
Dracos
You can also PM, email, or IM me if you need forums set up. >_>
Well, talking with Rez is obiviously anti-productive at the moment, so...
Information: Board/group name: Journeys
Sub-boards/groups: Journeys: Pathways and Journeys: Behind the Scenes
Is that enough or do you need more?
Enough to start with. You can always get forum descriptions later.
The game is afoot! Lets get rocking! ^_-