Okay.
As we know, I'm aiming for a reasonably powered game here using my own judgment. Now, while not knocking my own judgment, I realise it's not entirely perfect. *Gasp* So, a question out to all of you: Reading the sheets, do you see anything that strikes you as too much, too weak, or just off?
Be honest, we've been through this system enough that I know whitewash when I see it.
In other words, peer review. After all, I do like to give you avenues for you imput into the game, as much as possible.
I'd say it's really hard to tell. I keep wanting to point things out as just plain wrong, but then I realize that I'm looking at them through the prism of the first game, and that things are obviously gonna be different.
Plus, I'm just plain jealous of Merc for beefing Ami up so much. >_>;
It's hard to really judge, with things as they are now - except from Makoto, we all have the same ACV, and that's about the only thing of powergaming import with regards to our civvy forms. Things'll be clearer when we get senshi powers.
I will note one thing - Agility and Fast Reflexes seem fairly overpowered to say Acrobatics. Is Acrobatics really good for anything besides just taking it to justify roofhopping? And the bonuses to running checks with Agility far outstrip the situational bonus of Acrobatics, even leaving aside the DCV boost.
That IS a good point. Even in the last game, Acrobatics were next to worthless, which is why I didn't take any.
As an aside, shouldn't this be in the OOC forum? <_<
I thought the point of this was so we'd have the biographies all neat in one place with no extraneous clutter.
Yeah, that one was my fault.
Meant to move it after making it and forgot. I'll get to the rest later, I'm dashing back out to ship out the printer.
Acrobatics is going to be used as a bellweather of the exact stunts you can do with leaping, skill with that sort of thing, etc. After all, I'm sure there will be cases where you will want to leap or backflip over the masses. Or something.
It'll be accounted for, and it will affect a certain something, yes. More details once it's revealed in game.
Okay, as far as character sheets go.... I'm not getting good vibes when I take a look at Hotaru's character sheet.
It's like I'm watching someone named "Hotaru Tomoe" who isn't said character. She is nowhere near the boundaries of canon and while justification could be made, it's just too... off.
Sorry. I just can't quite endorse the character as is.
Quote from: Liddo-kunOkay, as far as character sheets go.... I'm not getting good vibes when I take a look at Hotaru's character sheet.
It's like I'm watching someone named "Hotaru Tomoe" who isn't said character. She is nowhere near the boundaries of canon and while justification could be made, it's just too... off.
Sorry. I just can't quite endorse the character as is.
Okay.
Girls, what does everyone think here? Since it's come up, go ahead and talk. Do you agree, disagree, or what?
Also, Hotaru, your thoughts?
EDIT - Be polite and mature, people. No dramabombs, and we can work with each other candidly.
I disagree, respectfully.
I told Liddo something to this effect earlier, but....Hotaru in canon is underdeveloped in the extreme. I have no problem with this, as all it is Is added dimension to the character. It's not like she's added anything directly contradictory to Hotaru's base nature.
What exactly IS bothering you about it, Plushie? Specifics would be more helpful.
I'm inclined to agree. Her dream is to be a military consultant? That sets off all kinds of warning bells when matched to a girl with potentially earth-shattering power.
It's part of what makes Hotaru so interesting in canon that she abhors violence or pain in any fashion, but must reconcile it with her powers. In canon her ambition is to be a nurse, after all.
The bits about her being extremely goal oriented I can let slide - this is a Hotaru with none of that Mistress 9 baggage, after all. But the military otaku aspect is just far too wrong for her.
Hotaru can't be imported directly from canon, like the others can, though. Too much depended on her introductory storyline.
QuoteIt's part of what makes Hotaru so interesting in canon that she abhors violence or pain in any fashion, but must reconcile it with her powers. In canon her ambition is to be a nurse, after all.
Can't really hold her to cookie cutter canon when Minako, Setsuna and I have taken liberties, right? I can see wanting to soften the eventual goal perhaps, but I still don't see why it's wrong.
My thoughts?
The driven thing doesn't bother me - a touch of difference is inevitable with a normal family for her. The military stuff? Do you girls agree or disagree on this one? Elaborate.
If possible, could you do so as well, Liddo? What exactly bothers you? Any one thing in particular? The general feel? Something else?
Also...note that she doesn't want to become a soldier. It's the intellecual aspects that she's interested in, Eb.
Being a Military consultant doesn't make you warlike any more than a degree in polisci makes you a dictator. >_>
Okay, before going into the Hotaru issue, just wanted to mention to Bean that I noticed you also rounded ACV up like May did before Hal corrected her, so you're at a 6 ACV like the rest of the senshi. <== Edit: Nevermind, I forgot to take Combat Mastery into account >_>;;;;
Now, back to the subject at hand: I also agree with the plushie and Eb that the feel of May's Hotaru worries me. It doesn't feel particularly like Hotaru.
Heck, I actually had copied and pasted the goal line to the plushie when he asked for my thoughts on the matter, since just likr Eb, that's the heart of what feels wrong.
Even considering what little information there is about Hotaru compared to the other senshi, we still know enough to know something about her character: She likes to help people, not hurt them.
The 'military otaku' as Eb puts it, feels almost like something that has been added more for a power-gaming advantage (battle tactics and what not) than actual character enrichment.
To put it simply, it feels like this Hotaru would be more likely to be collecting GI Joe action figures and tank models than cute and cudly comforting plushies.
Hmm...Okay, I can see your concerns, but I really think you're blowing the 'military' stuff way out of proportion.
Hotaru isn't currently making war a way of life. -_- In fact, the only thing it directly applies to is the computer games she plays, and some of the books she reads.
Is this a problem? She's still mostly canon Hotaru, but she has a new interest.
The stance you guys are taking worries me a bit, because I don't intend to play Makoto as being entirely fixated on boys, Cooking and flowers. Hell, she might try paintball out. Or even an art class. Or maybe even take up swordfighting, if it comes up in game, and I can work with it. Am I going to be nailed into a Makoto stereotype too?
A degree in polisci would lend to being a politician, elected or not. But that's going off on a tangent we can well do without.
Basically, I agree with Merc about how the military stuff doesn't feel like it enriches the character. She feels... well, 'cold' is perhaps putting it best. I'm not getting much of a feeling for any connection with humanity. Rather than being on the outside and desperately wishing she was included in any social sense, it looks more like she'd be happy enough just watching from the side and dispassionately analysing everything.
I'm not saying characters have to match their canon counterparts. I'm not even saying this Hotaru can't 'work'. But I have to express my misgivings now rather than letting them fester like happened with certain characters in the previous game.
Fundamentally, though, I just feel that Hotaru here needs to be softened up a bit.
*Nods to Eb* I can understand that. Softening up, sure. The thing that worries me is the 'Hotaru should be all sweetness and plushies' vibe I'm getting from Rai and Merc. It's not WRONG, per se, but limiting her to that alarms me.
To be fair, it's a lot more comforting when the resident doomsday weapon is filled to the brim with sweetness and light than to have one who thinks explosions are cool. <_<
I honestly have no problems with going outside of the norm, heck, I don't think I played too stereotypical a Makoto even if I didn't deviate too much. Hell, even Panda's Ami still felt fairly Ami-ish to me, in spite of that whole mad doctor and thief thing going on, and that's pretty outside of the norm!
So yeah, it's possible to play well while giving the character a bit of a facelift. And it -is- a sheet, it's not meant to be kooky like the plushie's, so it's not the best way of measuring the character. A background, omake gaming, and the first few weeks of actual gaming would do more to getting an accurate image of the character. But as we don't have any of that at the moment, all we have to go by is our first impressions of the sheet, and the sheet paints a cold and clinical minded Hotaru.
So while I don't think Hotaru -has- to be all sweetness and plushies, it does worry me a bit at the moment what Hotaru's gonna turn out as.
I can understand the concern. Talk to May. She explains it better than I do, but from what she's said to me, your concerns are groundless.
This isn't the first step in becoming a soldier, or powergaming, anymore than Ami's chess skills are. It's a similar interest, taken in a different direction.
Quote from: MercForHireA background, omake gaming, and the first few weeks of actual gaming would do more to getting an accurate image of the character. But as we don't have any of that at the moment, all we have to go by is our first impressions of the sheet, and the sheet paints a cold and clinical minded Hotaru.
One suggestion would be to try a few omake sessions with Hotaru, perhaps? See how that works out?
QuoteI can understand the concern. Talk to May. She explains it better than I do, but from what she's said to me, your concerns are groundless.
This isn't the first step in becoming a soldier, or powergaming, anymore than Ami's chess skills are. It's a similar interest, taken in a different direction.
*nods* Sorry if I was sounding pushy about the concern, as I wasn't trying to make it sound like I wanted a particular type of Hotaru.
Also, I'll PM May and talk to her as well since you mentioned it, I guess.
Was kinda hoping to see her comments on the matter in this thread though, just so everyone could see at the same time, rather than go through individual PMs.
QuoteOne suggestion would be to try a few omake sessions with Hotaru, perhaps? See how that works out?
I'm going home for thanksgiving break tomorrow and will be there till monday.
While I do have to study for some exams, I can pretty much game any time from thursday to sunday if May or anybody else wants to try to game an omake with me. I don't have any omake ideas though.
Specifics? Sure, I think I can do that.
I think I'm... hell, I'm not sure what the right term might be here... troubled? I guess that works.
First off, I don't have problems with the character deviating from canon, mind you. I think that some of the problems might actually go away with a better written explanation of things, but then you have the leftover issues for me.
Everything written so far is angled to militarize Hotaru and I'm left wondering and worrying if it'd work. "Is this going to jive with the game," is what I find myself asking.
Heck, even the NPCs she has listed help in this goal of making her G.I. Jane, yet there's not even a blurb mentioned of her father and mother (deceased or not).
Perhaps more work could solve the issues, perhaps not. I'm just unconvinced and worried at this point on the matter.
I seem to remember being told to have a talk with Dune about her family, not necessarily involving it in my initial creation.
The impression I was under was that the subject of her family was so GM ruled that it'd be better to not do my own write up.
This was further reinforced when Dune told me to post my sheet as it is.
Next, I'll regurgitate what I just told Merc, plus a little extra:
I think the group is confusing reading and studying too much with a tendency for expression in real life action.
She's not expressly violent in any way, shape, or form. She studies military history and organization as an appreciation for just that: History, organization, and complexity. It happened to be in this area, as one I as a player can cope with.
As far as the application of said studies and mental tendencies, I've noted in her sheet that first she is very reactionary, she doesn't predict her opponent's moves any more than they've given her direct reason to. She's as likely to think up a battle strategy of some kind in a timely manner as she is while studying, during the middle of an already moving plan, or five hours later as she reviews what happened in hindsight. This fact was tailored to my own mental randomness.
And the military consultant career...she's spent her spare time studying something, its material is interesting to her, she has no one she can actually discuss it with that doesn't look down upon her. She wants the world to notice she figured this out. So...why not answer the questions people have about it, as a recognized authority on the subject, aka a consultant?
Yeah. The family thing was stalled, as it's going to require some GM/OC coordination due to various obvious factors. Wanted to do it last as I'm not really anticipating her parents having much of a factor at all. After last game, I'd rather just keep that entire thing in the background.
Okay, two things.
1. Asrana, I'll be looking for you on IRC so we can get the family stuff straight. (Another sentence about how that wait on it idea sure came back to bite all concerned in the ass goes here.)
2. From discussions with most involved, the idea of simply running an omake or two with Hotaru seems to be the best solution. If things work out great with it and she's sounding good or making an honest effort to do so(To be fair, not all of us hit our character voice in the first few sessions), no problem.
And if the PCs still feel there may be concerns, we'll work from there.
Thoughts?