I'd like to encourage a chance for general discussion and opninoning. I'll start, but feel free to reply to this or go off on another tangent altogether if you want. By all means, do so.
The one thing I come away liking each week is the party dynamic. Both on the battlefield and off each PC is settling into a specific roll; this is fun to watch and to DM around. Off field it's a pretty good give and take between Saul and Elaine being the strongest personalities, with Seryf being the quiet girl in the background, Darius being big mouthed but not that huge a noisemaker, and Gavin being a saner if sometimes overwhelmed voice.
On field, it's tank/swords/swords/tiger/magical guy/odds and ends. I'll leave you to guess on who each is, since it's rather obvious, but it works. While there is some overlap with Seryf and Darius, each PC has a fairly good role in the dirtier aspect of adventuring. This is part of what made the previous session's splitting up so interesting, it made groups rely on themselves instead of parts of the machine.
Not that being a good team is bad, it just highlighted the dual adventures better.
I take it I'm the "odds and ends"? =p
Anyhoo...Party dynamic is fun. It has a family dynamic of sorts for Elaine. How she considers them right now:
Saul = Big brother who knows everything, the person to ask for advice on stuff, and berate/tease when he does something stupid.
Seryf = Big cool sister type, sorta like Sakaki (with a pinch of bloodthirstyness!) from Azumanga. Not a hero worship relationship, just Elaine considers her someone who's sorta neat and fairly collected.
Darius = annoying younger brother (even if he is older) who can do nice things every now and then.
Gavin = best guy friend, fun to hang around, feel safe around.
Doing a few more individual/paired adventures in different sets would be interesting, yeah.
Playing Gavin has been a little odd lately. Imagined him more in a more human dominated setting, so it's been a little odd dancing off in elf/magic land and coming up with meaningful things to say in such an environment. In general as an RPer, I tend not to interleave too much if I see something as someone elses role, so I've sort of taken a step further back talking wise of late along that, with it being more appropriate for elves to talk to elves, bards to bards, and mages to mages in such. Don't mind it being so, as I understand it wavers between things, though I hope we get some more human land quests type deals(such as with the local constable/knights at o'cul something) as those are fun and more natural for RPing Gavin in. I admit though I've also been a bit distracted in that vein when playing. ADD and all that, which has weakened my general posting a bit. That I think, more than anything, has really contributed to gavin coming across as more quiet/overwhelmed. Being distracted for a couple minutes between comments pretty much results in others taking the lead there. Something I've got to work on a bit. Gavin though is also supposed to be somewhat of a non-boisterous character. More formal and such in his general behaviour following the type of heritage he's coming from and I sort of think that's coming out somewhat. Even if 'as saner' =P
As far as battle, I'm having fun. It's gone pretty well along my plan of being a warrior/defensive tank. Seryf's fitting well into the primary damage dealer. I think Darius feels the most awkward in battle in my mind, largely because he sort of feels like an unlucky Seryf, built not as strongly along that vein. The general separation in combat of him and Serith tends to push towards this... They feel less like a unified front and more like two separate characters acting. I know Serith's taking a liking to Seryf, but it's just something that I feel weakens his character a bit. There's just not been a terribly strong sense coming across as "We're partners". It'd be nice seeing that partnership strenghtened on screen (I know there's some stuff that goes back and forth) both in battle and out. Maybe something like having them go on the same action count or having Darius directly control her during battle or something. In other words, Serith, by feeling like a completely separate party member, tends to weaken Darius' role in the party in my mind. His big shtick is that he's this beast-tamer/warrior/savage dude. He's not been savage, so that's really out. He's neither the best at attacking or at defending or at being neat while fighting (Going to Seryf, Myself, and Elaine to fill those roles). So what he really has left to shine with is "Darius, beast-tamer" type deal. But that's not been felt much. Instead it feels like, and been described as, him just being a member of Serith's pack which seems to be quickly growing to cover the party as well. Not that I see it wrong with Serith being more of a character, it just doesn't leave much to Iddy if his big specialty is so separated from him. Right now even the communication from Serith feels more like Serith using him than Serith being part of his character. If this isn't going to happen...perhaps more stuff tied in with his background, his tribal heritage, etc, would help him stand out better. More opportunity to pull that into light. Not that I'm a huge fan of tribal antics, but something to make his character less of 'lesser Seryf' and more of a 'Darius, something special'.
Saul as a mage has felt a little disadvantaged... more because Rat's playing into unconsciousness than anything else. He just doesn't feel like he's gotten much chance to shine since his early sleep antics. Maybe it's just me. I haven't actually felt him being that strong a personality. Elaine, sure, but not saul that much.
Elaine's been a bit of the star, but that's not unexpected. By playing an exuberant bard/swordgirl character, it's hard to compete in terms of room for antics. It's a good character choice. I just sort of expect that Elaine's going to have something to say on almost everything more than anyone else largely because everything can be phrased in terms of her characters desire for tales to tell. In battle and out she's had a fun role to play and is enjoyable to interact with. Was glad to have her as partner in the troll antics, even if she sort of got skewered repeatedly =).
Hum, there's my blather. =) Back to writing reviews.
Dracos
QuoteThe general separation in combat of him and Serith tends to push towards this... They feel less like a unified front and more like two separate characters acting. I know Serith's taking a liking to Seryf, but it's just something that I feel weakens his character a bit. There's just not been a terribly strong sense coming across as "We're partners".
Agreed. Outside of combat, the two do have the partners/friends thing, but in battle...there's really just not that image. They're entirely separate characters, it feels more like being in one of those old delphi games where the GM was also one of the party characters, not an extension of Darius. Yeah, she -should- have her own personality, but she's still part of what should make him unique, and it doesn't really come up much. The battle sequences don't show the teamwork that should be there.
Outside of fights it's great. You can sort of see that relationship when Darius got warned of the electric door, or the roughhousing/prank stuff, but in the main window, since we don't see the mental conversations, that connection just isn't as apparent in battle at least. Do they even -happen- in battle at that, really? I didn't get any impression of that, which shows how disjointed that relationship gets in battle.
I agree that they should probably go on the same count or just something that gives the impression that they're working together. Like say Darius setting up an attack to leave the opponent open to an unexpected pounce attack from the side or some such. Some sort of cooperation between their attacks. Use that mental link to set up plans together where they set each other up for better attacks against the opponent.
If he keeps getting bad rolls, while Serith gets the good ones, use that to the advantage! Make Darius do something like smirk, like he -planned- to miss while distracting them from the PAINFUL claws and jaws that are Serith's. Something to that effect. They're a team, one's victory is the other's victory too.
QuoteSaul as a mage has felt a little disadvantaged... more because Rat's playing into unconsciousness than anything else. He just doesn't feel like he's gotten much chance to shine since his early sleep antics. Maybe it's just me. I haven't actually felt him being that strong a personality. Elaine, sure, but not saul that much.
Hrm...I agree that he hasn't really shined since the sleep antics in battle, or dealing with the dragon, but outside of battle he's still a very strong personality. He did shine a bit more again with the wands episode, though it was admittedly in a negative fashion of sorts. Mostly due to bad rolling really. He's also had bad luck with the cure light wounds, so he doesn't look that great when he's trying to help as a healer, and since he can't convert spells like in 3E, that kinda screws up the priest side of him.
QuoteElaine's been a bit of the star, but that's not unexpected. By playing an exuberant bard/swordgirl character, it's hard to compete in terms of room for antics. It's a good character choice. I just sort of expect that Elaine's going to have something to say on almost everything more than anyone else largely because everything can be phrased in terms of her characters desire for tales to tell. In battle and out she's had a fun role to play and is enjoyable to interact with. Was glad to have her as partner in the troll antics, even if she sort of got skewered repeatedly =)
I've said it before, I'll say it again. Playing Elaine is an utter -blast-. I usually play characters a lot more down key, sort of like Seryf gets played at times I guess, so it's a fun change. And while Elaine does have a word to say on any matter if she really wants to, she's also not one to take charge/leadership, so when the responsible talk comes up, she kinda sputters out distractedly, unless she can redirect the conversation (like asking Seryf and Darius about their gifts while Gavin and Saul planned).
I agree with everything so far..
Gavin really has been pretty much out of place with the areas we've been going to.. Part of that in the last adventure was the feeling I got from the NPC elfs.. It seemed like they kinda blew him off.. The fact that we have a Knight-Errant with us really hasn't seem to made any type of impact on the NPC's.. Generally Knight-Errants are greeted with cheers and looked up to. Wandering Knights are rare, and the source of a -lot- of stories in the past of things like what happened in the first adventure. One shows up, noses out something no one else ever expected, and did so for the benefit of all. The.. I dunno.. Mysticism and ledgendary reputation of a Knight-Errant hasn't really been there.. Gavin feels, to me, to be viewed as more of a.. Town Guard or just a regular, every day fighter that's wandering around, instead of the pillar Justice and Honor that he should be viewed as..
Saul's already been pretty much hit on squarely.. Outside of RPing, he's really not had anything to do besides heal.. He hasn't really had a chance to show off the mage side of his character, or the versatility of his combination.. Instead of being a mage that can heal somewhat, he's been a cleric that -knows- about mage stuff, but doesn't do it.
Elaine's been hit on pretty well, too.. RPing she's great, and in combat she does the fancy stuff, which is what it should be like.. The only thing about her that I feel Merc's been weak on so far is the actual job of being a Bard.. I know she's a blade, and not a straight up Bard, but so far she hasn't really performed in any bardic manner.. No real story telling sessions, nothing to really entrance a tavern, nothing to really cause the reaction in a town that a Bard normally does.. Which is generally 'A Bard?! Which tavern? I'll be there tonight! I can't wait to hear her tales and music!' Bards, like Knights, tend to be recieved with a certian amount of hub-bub and flare in the town, especially the ones we've been to, where they're rural and Bards are generally not seen on a constant basis. Also, I've seen a distinct *lack* of her doing anything with the party's story. I've seen no obvious attempts of her recording anything, practicing how to recite the story, working it into song or anything.. This is the fourth adventure, she should have at least two or three verses in her song by now, damn it =D
Seryf, I agree, has been shifted more into a 'big sister' role for pretty much the entire group that I can see. She's quiet, reflective, and 'wise' to a degree. Her humor is generally really well placed, and so is her personality. In combat she plays her set up *really* well. She's an impressive sight to behold. As far as her RP thing goes.. Except for how she gets along with Serith, so far she doesn't really feel like a Ranger all the way.. She feels more like a Warrior who likes the forest instead of a 'Nature's Protector' or a Forrest Warden.. I'll grant, this is partly because she hasn't had many chances to play it off since we've been focused mostly in towns. But trying to work it in should be in there.. For example, Darius -shouldn't- really be hunting too much, Seryf should (even though it's only for RP stuff when I do..), and she should take Serith with her, also. I don't really know how to fix it or make it better, so that she has more chances to really have her class stand out instead of her Sword, so I can't offer up much on it..
Darius.. Yes, you've all got it pegged pretty much, too.. Outside of combat the relationship with Serith is apparent, but it's also somewhat flawed a little by her seeming to like Seryf more than Darius.. While Darius certianly has no probably with Serith going to hang out with the other party members, she shouldn't be going to Seryf exclusively, or as often as she does.. To the point where it's more common to see her at Seryf's side than at mine. Also, RP for Darius has been.. Awkward.. The party memebers are generally alright, and I admit I play him as 'smarter' than he probably should be, but not *too* much smarter, I think.. And NPC reactions, again, aren't really there.. I tried to work in his general uncomfortableness in this last adventure with how he kinda withdrew from the party and the other elves.. I haven't really had much chance to play on the fact that Darius *is* from a reclusive tribe, that even there he stood out as a half-elf in a human tribe, that he's an elite of his tribe.. I've tried to keep him somewhat seperate from both the human and elf communities, but it hasn't been easy.. NPC dislike seems to be directed at Serith instead of at both of us.. I've also been waiting for 'elf' things to happen, sort of the way they're considered 'graceful' and all that hokey stuff to show how uncultured he is and just how diffrent than he is, but I haven't seen many chances to do it.
As far as combat goes, something -does- need to be done about it.. In combat, we *are* seperate characters instead of a team.. This is my fault mainly because I don't really give Dune any direction about it, but at the same time, it's hard to take advantage of anything either one of us does when there's one or more people seperating our turns. By the time anything we could do anything to take advantage of it, it's already been changed by the actions of those who went in-between us. I think Drac had it right, we both need to go on the same turn, and Dune and I need to interact more on the combat side, though I don't know how well it will work going back and forth between us.. The game moves slow enough, we don't need to have a discussion about Darius and Serith working every combat round.. Also, our paired combat is *extremely* weak.. Mounted combat looks like a joke to me.. From what I can see, there's almost -no- benefit to my being mounted.. I get no real bonuses, and neither does Serith.. In fact, it *hurts* Serith since she can't move and attack in a round, unlike if I were dismounted.. Merc had one good example in chat:
<Merc> cause I would have recommended something like Serith pouncing while you're on for her attack, and while the opponent is underneath, you slide the scimitars off her sides and underneath her to stab at the trapped body
We need to do things like that.. Serith and I should know *exactly* what the other is doing, so Serith should be doing things like clamping down on an arm and I use the opening of that side of the body not being defended to make an attack there. It needs to go both ways, too though. I need to start moving around and doing things like hamstringing people, tripping them up, or disarming them, and then letting Serith go for the take down or finish.. But with us going at diffrent times, so far it's just been impossible.. We also need to start using tatics between us, again as Merc said, we should be flanking the target when it's focused on one of us. Basically, Dune and I need to just sit down and figure it out, since Wizards of the Coast didn't seem to in any book I've seen so far =p
Anyway, over all, the game is going great.. I'm having fun, the group works well, the personalities are diffrent enough to make a fun set of reactions to things, and we're pretty much kicking ass.
QuotePlaying Gavin has been a little odd lately. Imagined him more in a more human dominated setting, so it's been a little odd dancing off in elf/magic land and coming up with meaningful things to say in such an environment. In general as an RPer, I tend not to interleave too much if I see something as someone elses role, so I've sort of taken a step further back talking wise of late along that, with it being more appropriate for elves to talk to elves, bards to bards, and mages to mages in such. Don't mind it being so, as I understand it wavers between things, though I hope we get some more human land quests type deals(such as with the local constable/knights at o'cul something) as those are fun and more natural for RPing Gavin in. I admit though I've also been a bit distracted in that vein when playing. ADD and all that, which has weakened my general posting a bit. That I think, more than anything, has really contributed to gavin coming across as more quiet/overwhelmed. Being distracted for a couple minutes between comments pretty much results in others taking the lead there. Something I've got to work on a bit. Gavin though is also supposed to be somewhat of a non-boisterous character. More formal and such in his general behaviour following the type of heritage he's coming from and I sort of think that's coming out somewhat. Even if 'as saner' =P
Yeah. As far as the elf stuff goes; the Team Elf comments and jive made me want to notch things on that pole before the possible plot for awhile dictates a different setting. That said? You're probably right about a lot of it, and getting back into familiar waters will probably help.
Hm.
I'll elaborate on this more and get to the other stuff(Serith) later, when I'm not home sick with a vicious headache.
Quote from: "Iron Dragoon"I agree with everything so far..
Gavin really has been pretty much out of place with the areas we've been going to.. Part of that in the last adventure was the feeling I got from the NPC elfs.. It seemed like they kinda blew him off.. The fact that we have a Knight-Errant with us really hasn't seem to made any type of impact on the NPC's.. Generally Knight-Errants are greeted with cheers and looked up to. Wandering Knights are rare, and the source of a -lot- of stories in the past of things like what happened in the first adventure. One shows up, noses out something no one else ever expected, and did so for the benefit of all. The.. I dunno.. Mysticism and ledgendary reputation of a Knight-Errant hasn't really been there.. Gavin feels, to me, to be viewed as more of a.. Town Guard or just a regular, every day fighter that's wandering around, instead of the pillar Justice and Honor that he should be viewed as..
He's very right on this note. This sort of thing would make Gavin a hell of a lot easier to RP with random NPCs. Gavin is dressed up, perpetually, in bright knight's garb. He wears the symbols over his armor and keeps that pretty polished and all. He is meant to be sort of a symbol as he's traveling about. If these ever got damaged, he'd likely, quickly, be paying to have replacements made because that's what he's expected to garb himself as a member of the Knighthood. A separation between the casual town guard and the knighthood (a tier above at minimum) is nice and helps towards this.
Dracos
Addendum:
Yeah, I resisted because I often focus on this but... Keep an eye on Seryf's xp. She got sort of hardlined this last game despite being the focus xp wise. Yeah, I guess the sword balances it, but I'd like to not have someone in our party end up two levels back total. We've got a lot of folks with 4 and me and seryf at 3, which is fine, except Seryf is some 2000 abouts xp behind the rest of the party...which is huge (a full two adventures worth) and I'm not quite sure how she got that far back.
Dracos
Quote from: "Dracos"Addendum:
Yeah, I resisted because I often focus on this but... Keep an eye on Seryf's xp. She got sort of hardlined this last game despite being the focus xp wise. Yeah, I guess the sword balances it, but I'd like to not have someone in our party end up two levels back total. We've got a lot of folks with 4 and me and seryf at 3, which is fine, except Seryf is some 2000 abouts xp behind the rest of the party...which is huge (a full two adventures worth) and I'm not quite sure how she got that far back.
Dracos
Agreed. It was because she only got one troll and the rest of you got two trolls on your killsheet. They're worth a lot, and the rest is odds and ends; I recall her not doing well on bonus EXP one adventure. Part of this works well because she did get two fairly useful magical items, further since 2000 EXP is quite make upable, moreso as the EXP curve increases.
On a related note because it came up and I may as well hit it now, I am looking to increase the EXP curve a tad bit. Due to the Weekly nature of this game and the fact that each adventure takes 2-4 sessions, I'd rather up it slightly so you aren't level 2 or 3 for four months. I think it worked well in this case, since you got a challenging set of encounters and rewarded well for your victories. Proportionally it's a tad out of whack, but you were also more in danger from these trolls than anything else you've fought so far. (The dragon doesn't count since you didn't -fight- it. <_<)
Quote from: "Dracos"Quote from: "Iron Dragoon"I agree with everything so far..
Gavin really has been pretty much out of place with the areas we've been going to.. Part of that in the last adventure was the feeling I got from the NPC elfs.. It seemed like they kinda blew him off.. The fact that we have a Knight-Errant with us really hasn't seem to made any type of impact on the NPC's.. Generally Knight-Errants are greeted with cheers and looked up to. Wandering Knights are rare, and the source of a -lot- of stories in the past of things like what happened in the first adventure. One shows up, noses out something no one else ever expected, and did so for the benefit of all. The.. I dunno.. Mysticism and ledgendary reputation of a Knight-Errant hasn't really been there.. Gavin feels, to me, to be viewed as more of a.. Town Guard or just a regular, every day fighter that's wandering around, instead of the pillar Justice and Honor that he should be viewed as..
He's very right on this note. This sort of thing would make Gavin a hell of a lot easier to RP with random NPCs. Gavin is dressed up, perpetually, in bright knight's garb. He wears the symbols over his armor and keeps that pretty polished and all. He is meant to be sort of a symbol as he's traveling about. If these ever got damaged, he'd likely, quickly, be paying to have replacements made because that's what he's expected to garb himself as a member of the Knighthood. A separation between the casual town guard and the knighthood (a tier above at minimum) is nice and helps towards this.
Dracos
Mmmm.
Yes, that's a valid point. Looking back on it you have more of a point - while Silvat's Reach greeted Gavin fairly well(Albiet under the circumstances they were in), you're probably..mmm. On thinking about it, I dunno. The bandit group reacted to Gavin as bandits would be likely to(Not good!), you were received well enough in Cup'o'Orial, albiet in a restrained sort of way. That's what I was aiming for, since it's a quiet, secure and mostly forgotten town with it's own knight hall. As for Demetrius, he's not likely to greet Gavin well under the circumstances; Gavin's knighthood isn't a big deal to him as you can guess by now.
To be fair, the Elder Elf did greet Gavin well enough, but be it a Knight of the Crown or a paladin, a human warrior is going to be greeted with a reasonable respect there, but not fawned over. So I dunno, thinking about it. You have a point on one hand, but mmmm. Need to think this over, I reckon. I think part of this does tie into the above about Gavin being out of his element.
Quite possibly. I don't feel as strongly as iddy did about being unknighted... more just saying "This kind of thought and stuff: Good, it's what my character is about"
Dracos
Quote from: "MercForHire"I take it I'm the "odds and ends"? =p
Anyhoo...Party dynamic is fun. It has a family dynamic of sorts for Elaine. How she considers them right now:
Saul = Big brother who knows everything, the person to ask for advice on stuff, and berate/tease when he does something stupid.
Seryf = Big cool sister type, sorta like Sakaki (with a pinch of bloodthirstyness!) from Azumanga. Not a hero worship relationship, just Elaine considers her someone who's sorta neat and fairly collected.
Darius = annoying younger brother (even if he is older) who can do nice things every now and then.
Gavin = best guy friend, fun to hang around, feel safe around.
Doing a few more individual/paired adventures in different sets would be interesting, yeah.
Not any time soon, but I'd like to keep individual stuff on tap if you go back to Paxburg. There's a fair bit I want to do there, and much of it can be done solo or in small groups. It's a little harder when you're out in the wilderness basically relying on yourselves. So yes, if nothing else, you and Saul need to have some time together! <_<
Quote from: "Dracos"Quite possibly. I don't feel as strongly as iddy did about being unknighted... more just saying "This kind of thought and stuff: Good, it's what my character is about"
Dracos
Mmm, yes. Let me clarify that I'm not outright disagreeing with Iddy as much as considering it and the context of each incident. There hasn't been a full knight's greeting yet, but I also think there hasn't been a case when it's quite right yet, if that makes any sense.
Quote from: "Anastasia"Quote from: "MercForHire"I take it I'm the "odds and ends"? =p
Anyhoo...Party dynamic is fun. It has a family dynamic of sorts for Elaine. How she considers them right now:
Saul = Big brother who knows everything, the person to ask for advice on stuff, and berate/tease when he does something stupid.
Seryf = Big cool sister type, sorta like Sakaki (with a pinch of bloodthirstyness!) from Azumanga. Not a hero worship relationship, just Elaine considers her someone who's sorta neat and fairly collected.
Darius = annoying younger brother (even if he is older) who can do nice things every now and then.
Gavin = best guy friend, fun to hang around, feel safe around.
Doing a few more individual/paired adventures in different sets would be interesting, yeah.
Not any time soon, but I'd like to keep individual stuff on tap if you go back to Paxburg. There's a fair bit I want to do there, and much of it can be done solo or in small groups. It's a little harder when you're out in the wilderness basically relying on yourselves. So yes, if nothing else, you and Saul need to have some time together! <_<
No setting up Elaine as party slutty romantic~ =P
Dracos
BLANTANT OUT OF CONTEXT!
QuoteAs far as battle, I'm having fun. It's gone pretty well along my plan of being a warrior/defensive tank. Seryf's fitting well into the primary damage dealer.
Yes. Gavin's flushing out quite well in this role. He's doing damage but not a prime damage dealer; Sir Gavin reminds me of the stereotyped heavy armor, mace wielding mounted knight. He's not going to do 9999 damage a round, but he's taking little to no damage and keeping the frailer party members safe. It's a good niche for him - a protector, basically, which fits in with his knight role.
Gavin SO should have tried to be the Ascendant with that angle! >_>
Quote from: "Dracos"Quote from: "Anastasia"Quote from: "MercForHire"I take it I'm the "odds and ends"? =p
Anyhoo...Party dynamic is fun. It has a family dynamic of sorts for Elaine. How she considers them right now:
Saul = Big brother who knows everything, the person to ask for advice on stuff, and berate/tease when he does something stupid.
Seryf = Big cool sister type, sorta like Sakaki (with a pinch of bloodthirstyness!) from Azumanga. Not a hero worship relationship, just Elaine considers her someone who's sorta neat and fairly collected.
Darius = annoying younger brother (even if he is older) who can do nice things every now and then.
Gavin = best guy friend, fun to hang around, feel safe around.
Doing a few more individual/paired adventures in different sets would be interesting, yeah.
Not any time soon, but I'd like to keep individual stuff on tap if you go back to Paxburg. There's a fair bit I want to do there, and much of it can be done solo or in small groups. It's a little harder when you're out in the wilderness basically relying on yourselves. So yes, if nothing else, you and Saul need to have some time together! <_<
No setting up Elaine as party slutty romantic~ =P
Dracos
BLANTANT OUT OF CONTEXT!
Seconded for slutty bisexual Elaine dramabombs?!?!?!?!
Smile!
I'm going to get to Darius/Serith stuff last, as I'm invovled there and I'm still marshalling my thoughts on those matters.
QuoteSaul as a mage has felt a little disadvantaged... more because Rat's playing into unconsciousness than anything else. He just doesn't feel like he's gotten much chance to shine since his early sleep antics. Maybe it's just me. I haven't actually felt him being that strong a personality. Elaine, sure, but not saul that much.
I think that's a little of it, and some of it is happening in other discussions. (Read as: #elysium) I disagree here, Saul's shaping up nicely, but it's largely subtle growth that's partially very speculative. Maybe I just get a deeper view than shows in the main game, though. Rat, any opinion here; or hell, any of the PCs if they want to chime/rechime on this matter.
There's a reason I gave Saul EXP bonuses in this adventure for RPing.
To the other thrust of the comment, I agree; albiet that it's partly of nessecity. Being the only current healing game in town with a fairly challenging battle set means his healing is taking forefront by need. I would like to see more magery, especially as SAul earns more spell charges so he can cast more than 1 or 2 mage spells per day.
test
Dracos
QuoteI've said it before, I'll say it again. Playing Elaine is an utter -blast-. I usually play characters a lot more down key, sort of like Seryf gets played at times I guess, so it's a fun change. And while Elaine does have a word to say on any matter if she really wants to, she's also not one to take charge/leadership, so when the responsible talk comes up, she kinda sputters out distractedly, unless she can redirect the conversation (like asking Seryf and Darius about their gifts while Gavin and Saul planned).
Hi, Elaine-chan! I'm glad you're having fun since I have fun being like me, too, you know, since this really fits you! I knew you had it in you and it's working out really great, so you should do it more often, especially with a blue haired girl that I wouldn't mind getting to spend more time against, even if she has a thing for me that's kinda creepy!
Er.
Sorry about that. As I was trying to say, I'm glad. You feel like you're really enjoying Elaine, and it's good. I can relate, playing someone like this after more muted characters is just fun. It's all about letting go and doing things you want to do, even if it gets you in trouble or won't make you a leader.
QuoteThe only thing about her that I feel Merc's been weak on so far is the actual job of being a Bard.. I know she's a blade, and not a straight up Bard, but so far she hasn't really performed in any bardic manner.. No real story telling sessions, nothing to really entrance a tavern, nothing to really cause the reaction in a town that a Bard normally does.. Which is generally 'A Bard?! Which tavern? I'll be there tonight! I can't wait to hear her tales and music!' Bards, like Knights, tend to be recieved with a certian amount of hub-bub and flare in the town, especially the ones we've been to, where they're rural and Bards are generally not seen on a constant basis. Also, I've seen a distinct *lack* of her doing anything with the party's story. I've seen no obvious attempts of her recording anything, practicing how to recite the story, working it into song or anything.. This is the fourth adventure, she should have at least two or three verses in her song by now, damn it =D
This I agree with, though I suspect and hope this will be touched on when you return to Paxburg. I really rather want to see Elaine cut loose with her tales thus far, it would really seal the deal of her bardness. (She did perform at Silvat's Reach, on thinking about it, as an aside that I remembered as I typed.) So go make some songs, Elaine-chan! Do it for the Dariusii![/quote]
QuoteSeryf, I agree, has been shifted more into a 'big sister' role for pretty much the entire group that I can see. She's quiet, reflective, and 'wise' to a degree. Her humor is generally really well placed, and so is her personality. In combat she plays her set up *really* well. She's an impressive sight to behold.
I'm split here. While I like a lot of her wisecracks, there is a certain 'Hotaruness' to them that makes them feel slightly out of place. Maybe it's just me or the fact that she uses 'snickers' a lot, which brings Hotaru right to mind. Anyway, that aside, agreed. She's a tornado of blades and maiming, a set up played to perfection; right down to the part of dying in one counter melee string! Poor Seryf and good Seryf!
QuoteAs far as her RP thing goes.. Except for how she gets along with Serith, so far she doesn't really feel like a Ranger all the way.. She feels more like a Warrior who likes the forest instead of a 'Nature's Protector' or a Forrest Warden.. I'll grant, this is partly because she hasn't had many chances to play it off since we've been focused mostly in towns. But trying to work it in should be in there.. For example, Darius -shouldn't- really be hunting too much, Seryf should (even though it's only for RP stuff when I do..), and she should take Serith with her, also. I don't really know how to fix it or make it better, so that she has more chances to really have her class stand out instead of her Sword, so I can't offer up much on it..
Mmm. I agree to a point, Seryf favors being a warrior with a love of the forest rather than an outright Ranger. Like a forest paladin than a ranger, if you understand the distinction I'm trying to make. (Don't hit me, Seryf-chan!) Wait, that doesn't make sense, really. Anyway, I hope you still get the idea from the first comparison, so mmm. This could just be a character settling in thing, or at absolute worse, lose most of her ranger powers and shift to a fighter with a few minor things kept relating to what is working well. I don't think I'd see that change as a bad thing if it did happen, since it would likely feel like a natural character progression.
Any thoughts on this?[/quote]
Quote from: "Anastasia"Seconded for slutty bisexual Elaine dramabombs?!?!?!?!
Smile!
*STABS!*
Quote from: "MercForHire"Quote from: "Anastasia"Seconded for slutty bisexual Elaine dramabombs?!?!?!?!
Smile!
*STABS!*
*BLEED*What, wouldn't Elaine-chan sleeping around be awesome! We couild do an adventure to Montel Williams where all the male PCs go through finding out if they're the father of Elaine's babies while it turns out she was sleeping with Seryf on the side, too, and scoring all the men she was doin'!
Quote from: "Anastasia"QuoteThe only thing about her that I feel Merc's been weak on so far is the actual job of being a Bard.. I know she's a blade, and not a straight up Bard, but so far she hasn't really performed in any bardic manner.. No real story telling sessions, nothing to really entrance a tavern, nothing to really cause the reaction in a town that a Bard normally does.. Which is generally 'A Bard?! Which tavern? I'll be there tonight! I can't wait to hear her tales and music!' Bards, like Knights, tend to be recieved with a certian amount of hub-bub and flare in the town, especially the ones we've been to, where they're rural and Bards are generally not seen on a constant basis. Also, I've seen a distinct *lack* of her doing anything with the party's story. I've seen no obvious attempts of her recording anything, practicing how to recite the story, working it into song or anything.. This is the fourth adventure, she should have at least two or three verses in her song by now, damn it =D
This I agree with, though I suspect and hope this will be touched on when you return to Paxburg. I really rather want to see Elaine cut loose with her tales thus far, it would really seal the deal of her bardness. (She did perform at Silvat's Reach, on thinking about it, as an aside that I remembered as I typed.) So go make some songs, Elaine-chan! Do it for the Dariusii!
Well, on this point, we've been to three towns so far. Silvat's Reach I gave a show, Cup'O'Stuff I got drunk with the others, and here in the elf village, assuming we didn't immidiately take off (since the elders did say to talk after we rested), I was going to ask to be the one to relate the story of our trials. Otherwise, yeah, I'd probably save the stories for Paxburg and back in my 'home turf' so to speak, at Elaine's uncle's tavern, The Broken Bow.
QuoteAnyway, over all, the game is going great.. I'm having fun, the group works well, the personalities are diffrent enough to make a fun set of reactions to things, and we're pretty much kicking ass.
While I'm still working on the Serith stuff mentally, I do want to hit this point as well. I'm glad to hear it - it's good that everyone seems to be having fun. Kicking ass is a nice bonus, even if you're having to work for it.
QuoteWell, on this point, we've been to three towns so far. Silvat's Reach I gave a show, Cup'O'Stuff I got drunk with the others, and here in the elf village, assuming we didn't immidiately take off (since the elders did say to talk after we rested), I was going to ask to be the one to relate the story of our trials. Otherwise, yeah, I'd probably save the stories for Paxburg and back in my 'home turf' so to speak, at Elaine's uncle's tavern, The Broken Bow.
Cup'o'stuff? -_-
Annnyway, glad to hear it. I really would like to see some work abou performances to round off Elaine's bardic side. Bards are jacks of all trades, after all, and that included the finer arts. Maybe you can even make Iddy a good barbarian baritone?
Heh, sorry, not good with names and didn't feel like re-looking up the name of the city ^_^
And don't worry, I'll get Darius singing soprano sooner or later!
Quote from: "MercForHire"Heh, sorry, not good with names and didn't feel like re-looking up the name of the city ^_^
And don't worry, I'll get Darius singing soprano sooner or later!
No big, it just felt like a -_- moment. I thought that was a very unique and easy to remember name while being unique. Oh well.
I keep thinking of it as the "Cup'o'Joe" town ^_^
...should I be relieved that none of the party members are named Joe; I can just see Elaine going to get a cup of 'Joe'!
Mmm. Temproarily ignoring what people have said (there's too much information!...)
I like the ideas of the party dynamic, here. You've kind of got Seryf and Gavin as different sides of the spectrum; one representing the human world, and one representing elven society, and Saul, Darius and Elaine with their own leanings towards the middle. While we're nominally Team Elf, we could easily pass for Team Human, if we went by words and such alone, I think. We're slowly feeling like more of a *party* as a whole- I think this adventure really highlighted that. I'd love an adventure set apart from the ordeal that played on that; I figure, since we're going back to Paxburg, we'll get an opportunity to do some more urban, talky-interactivity-non-direct-combat adventuring.
Individually...
Gavin: I'm not entirely sure why, but Gavin gives off a good impression of being generally befuddled, and trying to remain a kind of pillar in the group. It's amusing to me! It's true that his knightly status hasn't been played up on much; I think, again, that heading into the city might do something to alleviate that. My biggest gripe is sorta his flippancy so far; on seeing the ordeal, he gives consideration only to if we finish it without regard for the consequences, and his line on the tower ('There's a chance it has not been ransacked yet!") when he knew next to nothing about it made me go o-o;. It's possible that this could be intentional, but he never seemed the overconfident type. Just seems odd to me, overall.
Elaine: I really like Elaine's portrayal. She's young and doubtless the most *excited* member of the group. She's a little naive, too, so Saul feels that he has to watch out for her a little more than everyone else. She's had a chance to shine in general roleplaying but I don't feel she's been able to put her bardic talents to use yet, and we're not emphasizing her 'showy, flashy' method of fighting yet. I figure that if you put a little more extravagant description into your attacks, it would really fit your character. Overall, she actually feels very much like a protagonist. In this adventure, of course, that was Seryf, but if I had to pick a 'main character' out of us, Elaine would be my bet.
Seryf: Inscrutable! Seryf is quite and gives the *impression* of being capable, at least. A few bad rolls is something everyone gets, though. >_>
I thought that his ordeal might give a few more insights into her character; it's shown that she does care about her friends and has a remarkable amount of will. One of my goals is to get her to talk more about herself, but Saul doesn't want to be too forward because he's not *interested* in elven culture, dammit.
Darius: He's ok, but I think he really needs to play up his barbaric nature a little more. He comes off currently as your sort of typical brash arrogant youth, but there's more to him than that. Remember that he's far from home (a home where he might have felt slightly ostracized, anyway, being a half-elf), and while the rest of us may be familiar with the land, he shouldn't be so comfortable with our customs. I think playing up feelings of being an outsider and his whole barbaric beast-tamer nature could go well. As for Serith, outside comabt, at least, his relationship with her is spot on.
Myself: I'm having a blast playing Saul.. outside of combat. I kinda see him as the most jaded and most worldly member of the group; I want to give more expositions and generally play up being a smart guy who always knows what's going on. I'd *also*, however, like to remind everyone that he's basically a good guy, though one with some moral ambiguity, as shown by the dragon, and the ordeal just now. I've been unlucky on the healing and with that whole almost-killing-Darius thing, but I also hope to make him seem like he's looking out for the group overall, more.
Combat.
Hmm. The problem with combat, as I see it, is that we have three fighters, a fighting bard, and a single mage. It seems that most people are out to do the same thing- close in melee and mangle people. It's true that I'm not getting a chance to show much flashy magic beyond sleep and ye olde healing spell, but I honestly expected that at this point in the game.
I think two main things need to be done in combat to clear things up.
1) Differentiate the fighters from each other. This shouldn't be that hard. It's mostly a matter of description. Since nobody decided to be an archer (damn dual-wielders) we need to focus on melee, and I don't actually think that should be that hard. You've got Gavin, the stoic tank guy, ideally placing himself between all attacks and the rest of the group; Seryf, brutal elf grl, now armed with some pretty potent magical swords, who can quickly move around and kill important targets.
Darius, who relies on Serith to give him combat awesome. I think it might not be a bad idea to have them act on the same initiative count, or provide some tangible bonus when they're working together to take someone down. It might not even be a + to hit- maybe something like a chance to knock an opponent down whenever they both hit him in a round, or something. As I said earlier, Elaine needs to focus on her extravagant style. She should *look*, as is my understanding, like the most dangerous opponent on the battlefield. Buy a bandana, a ragged cloak, and cast Cantrip or Light to increase the idea that you're a *BADASS SWORDSMASTER*, even though it's obviously not true. ^^
Myself, two things would improve my combat play. The first is levelling more and obtaining access to certain magic items- more scrolls, or wands. That's a blatant plug that I'll get in time, anyway, so never mind that.
The second is the environment itself. When I'm not casting a spell, it's almost useless for me to just attack in melee, so what I'd rather do is run around the area looking to do things that benefit our group, like, I dunno. If we're fighting in a dungeon, closing gates to make sure reinforcements don't arrive. Overturning barrels of oil and throwing them at people. Pulling open curtains and throwing them over enemies. That sort of thing- my most hated battle, at the moment, would be one in a flat, featureless plain, while my most entertaining would be in a place where there's lots of *stuff* to do.
THe whole 'lots of stuff to do' in a battle scene is neat. I'm keen with that...
But at the same time, I would warn against Dune trying so hard that battle bogs down in it. It's one thing if we're fighting in an already described area. It's another if someone is looking around to see things they could do while orcs are bearing down on us.
Dracos
Quote
I like the ideas of the party dynamic, here. You've kind of got Seryf and Gavin as different sides of the spectrum; one representing the human world, and one representing elven society, and Saul, Darius and Elaine with their own leanings towards the middle. While we're nominally Team Elf, we could easily pass for Team Human, if we went by words and such alone, I think. We're slowly feeling like more of a *party* as a whole- I think this adventure really highlighted that. I'd love an adventure set apart from the ordeal that played on that; I figure, since we're going back to Paxburg, we'll get an opportunity to do some more urban, talky-interactivity-non-direct-combat adventuring.
This part of your reply grabs me the most. Care to elaborate a little; this interests me greatly.
Which part? =p
The whole racial thing could play an important role, if you wanted it to, see. The only true 'representatives' of the races are, as I said, Gavin and Seryf. Elaine, Saul and Darius should probably all not feel like they totally fit in (perhaps Elaine less so), due to their upbringings and their own race. Saul's been humanized a fair bit, Elaine has lived in a human city all her life, and Darius is a barbarian with weird customs anyway, so, while we're all technically elvish to a dgree, we could be argued to act more like humans than elves.
Because we represent a spectrum as a group, you could start playing on that by introducing, say, social circles only certain members can easily move through. Seryf could easily interact with elven outposts and the like, while Gavin moves around human nobility easily. Darius has got his tribe, wherever that is, Saul has a whole freaking temple on-side, and Elaine is the prime choice for dealing with the middle-class tavern-goers and the like. We've all got.. hmm, our own *environment* in which we'd be most comfortable, and that could be nice to use, too.
That said, though, *initial* reactions to group aren't likely to recognize this. I can see plenty of people jumping to the wrong conlcusion regarding, say, myself or Darius (we represent opposite ends of civility and barbarity, too! Hoohah!) and the like. Hmm.
Quote from: "Dracos"THe whole 'lots of stuff to do' in a battle scene is neat. I'm keen with that...
But at the same time, I would warn against Dune trying so hard that battle bogs down in it. It's one thing if we're fighting in an already described area. It's another if someone is looking around to see things they could do while orcs are bearing down on us.
Dracos
This depends on what Rat has in mind with this, really. Rat?
Quote from: "Carthrat"Which part? =p
The whole racial thing could play an important role, if you wanted it to, see. The only true 'representatives' of the races are, as I said, Gavin and Seryf. Elaine, Saul and Darius should probably all not feel like they totally fit in (perhaps Elaine less so), due to their upbringings and their own race. Saul's been humanized a fair bit, Elaine has lived in a human city all her life, and Darius is a barbarian with weird customs anyway, so, while we're all technically elvish to a dgree, we could be argued to act more like humans than elves.
Because we represent a spectrum as a group, you could start playing on that by introducing, say, social circles only certain members can easily move through. Seryf could easily interact with elven outposts and the like, while Gavin moves around human nobility easily. Darius has got his tribe, wherever that is, Saul has a whole freaking temple on-side, and Elaine is the prime choice for dealing with the middle-class tavern-goers and the like. We've all got.. hmm, our own *environment* in which we'd be most comfortable, and that could be nice to use, too.
That said, though, *initial* reactions to group aren't likely to recognize this. I can see plenty of people jumping to the wrong conlcusion regarding, say, myself or Darius (we represent opposite ends of civility and barbarity, too! Hoohah!) and the like. Hmm.
Mmm.
Heh, heh, heh. Now this I like - it's excellent DM mind food, and has given me several ideas already. I like how you portrayed this, Rat, it works on a very nice level. Some of it's obvious, but it's a very neat way to present it in a group-wise fashion.
That depends on the environment, really. It actually works better in urban and indoor environments, where there's chandeliers to cut down, bookcases to push over, and the like. Levers to pull, doors to close.. generally, I'll think of *something*, except in open areas like where we fought the troll, or closed but bland areas where we fought the other troll.
Pushing rocks down hills is good, too!
Quote from: "Carthrat"That depends on the environment, really. It actually works better in urban and indoor environments, where there's chandeliers to cut down, bookcases to push over, and the like. Levers to pull, doors to close.. generally, I'll think of *something*, except in open areas like where we fought the troll, or closed but bland areas where we fought the other troll.
Pushing rocks down hills is good, too!
I'm surprised you didn't try to knock of the troll off the dais altogether. It was fairly high up as I noted in Seryf's description of it, but I suspect no one paid attention or didn't think to.
But mmm. Yeah, inside, that's more viable. As long as it doesn't get too complicated, anyway, since having to worry if every single room has x number of windows or potted plants does get bothersome.
Like Rat, the massive hogshead of information here is a little too intimidating to really touch on, so...random thoughts off the port bow~!
As far as characters...Gavin,m yeah, I've seena s out of his element at the moment with our whole 'deep in elven culture' part. Otherwise though, I have to agree that he's doing a great job as the party shield and pillar of moral virtue. Mmmm...from my perspective, Seryf has wanted to nudge a little closer to him, I started out with the vague impression of them being an older set of friends like Saul and Elaine, and I think it's worked out okay-ish, mostly due to lack of opportunity (most of the time I get to really interact closely with Gavin is while he's half carrying me from a battlefield >_>). Overall he does come off as a sort of young knight, who ahsn't quite entirely grown into his authority and proess, but is still advancing.
Elaine...yes, we all love El-chan. She's fun to be around, energetic, exuberant, passio-wait, wait, wrong list. *Coughs* Anyway, yeah, she's great to be around, and by her level ups it looks like she'll begin to move into the damage dealer section a bit (like she's moved into every section), where big sis' Seryf will welcome her! I can't really say much that hasn't been said...just that there's never a dull or unfun moment while RPing with her.
Saul, hmmm...I guess I feel some connection with us both being full elves, even if we share very little culturally, that's likely Seryf's isolation from elven culture (relatively speaking, she's the least isolated, but she's still somewhat isolated!). From my POV, he's also the more vocal pragmatic, and perhaps more cynically pragmatic than Seryf. Overall, I like his drive, he definitely seems like a person with Goals, and his obsessive pursuing of magic books is both amusing and interesting. Combat wise and magery wise, yeah, we haven't seen much of him. Hmm...I guess I see him less of as a cleric or mage, and more of a mystically inclined thinker.
Darius...I do have to agree he hasn't come out as shining anywhere in particular, and I was a touch surprised at just how much Serith took to me initially. I think he could use a good few social development sessions, or more time working with animals.Overall yeah, a bit of a 'little brother' feeling, though not by much at all, maybe just a little more awakward.
Overall, I'm liking it, I like my place in it (which I'll address in another post where I gather quotes and pick you all apart! Mwaha! >_>), and I'm liking everyone else, and life is good, and I have SHINIES.
QuoteDarius...I do have to agree he hasn't come out as shining anywhere in particular, and I was a touch surprised at just how much Serith took to me initially. I think he could use a good few social development sessions, or more time working with animals.Overall yeah, a bit of a 'little brother' feeling, though not by much at all, maybe just a little more awakward.
I like this idea and I approve of it. That sort of session strikes me as a good idea for all three concerned, and probably ties into Serith. Mmm, Serith...mmm.
I've been working with her. At first I played her as rather laid back and subtle, but I got asked to make her more visible. So I have, but she's become almost independant of Iddy - we do PM back and forth a fair bit IC, but it doesn't appear that way often. (It's how Iddy knew how to react just before the portal to Seryf opened.)
I'm certainly open to connecting the two more, but it's problematic to coordinate Serith and Darius every single moment when I'm running other NPCs and a scene. Darius, would you be interested with more of Serith's reactions or duties?
I'd really poke that it may just be better to have Iddy run both characters during fights and stuff.
Coordination on that scale is stalling.
Dracos
Seryf...well, she said it outright IC, she's never been the most nature orientedof rangers. She was trained protecting caravans and around mostly human towns...and she took a primary interest in swordplay. That said, I don't think there have been a huge number of opportunities for it, either. She crit failed the one tracking attempt, but she did manage to locate the path to...um...Corela's town! We haven't really gotten too involved with animals outside those bears, and as they were mind controlled...eh, the best she could do was quick deaths.
Mmmm. That said, I agree she is much more of a nature oriented swordswoman than a sword inclined nature person. I wouldn't entirely mind a shift in the direction of fighter, I guess, as itmakes a lot of sense for her as a character if nothing erupts to drag her back into the greeny deep. Hmm...straight up fighter just really didn't suit in my mind, she has a love for her swords, and a skilled practice with bows, but...she's always been a sort of mobile/specialized/individualist person than the sorta 'medieval martial artist' that fighters come across as.
Now on to her social life!
I think she's setlting a bit into this 'big sister' thing, being one of the oldest of them all, as well as maybe a quieter and more stable person at the same time. And yeah, I admit she has a fairly 'Hotaru' tendency, but I'm engulfed in Hotaru most of the week, and they talk to each other a lot! ...Okay, honestly? It goes with her personality, they share the base of 'quiet weapony type with some oddball ulterior interests and a vaguely pragmatic POV', so a lot of the time they feel and act similarily.
Probably more time than necessary spent on that point. >_>
As for Rat speaking about her development here...mmm, I think you'd be surprised by how little elven culture came up if you did, Rat. I've eben trying to play her a lot more 'human' than a mystical and enigmatic elf, as she's spent a lot of her time in the human world, but keeping some of the more slow approach to things. I personally can't consider her a pinnacle of elven culture, though in relation to the party, I guess she is. >_>
As far as playing her? It's been fun, and getting more so. I like where she's gone and how she's developed, even if I haven't quite developed her as a personality IC as much as I'd like to. She also does her job very, very well, what with the spinning blades of death and what not.In a combat sense, it's very fun to play her, diving in headfirst with blood and so such...and yeah, her weakness individually got highlighted very pointedly last adventure.
Hmm. On a random note, you could try getting her tipsy, Saul! =P
I probably rambled more than I should've, but I like talking about me!
I wouldn't mind just flat out taking control of her during combat.. I just didn't want to have control of her as a character simply because it'd be too easy to fall into the trap of using her as a tool to get the RP stuff I want done without having to really work at it =\
I wanted her to be an actual character instead of just a puppet I can make act a certain way to make a situation the way I want it, ya know?
Mmm, more Serith is fun for everyone. She seems like she'd have wildly different reactions to the group members, honestly; she could be really close to Darius, obviously, but still to a degree with Seryf (I pronounce their names the same! @_@). I'd like to see how she acts around us other three sometimes.
Well.
Not me.
For a few weeks.
>_>
eh...
I'd rather less or the same Serith and more interaction between each other. Yes, I know not directly contradictory, but I'd rather see dune focusing more on providing opportunities (not saying he hasn't been) for party interaction more. I like Serith sticking mainly to Darius as a partner relation/interaction most the time as it builds Darius' character when that happens. As I said, I feel a lot of the effort to spread Serith out among the party has come at a cost of Darius feeling like a lesser character than Serith. Which is wrong.
Additionally, when interacting with the tiger, that tends to take center stage, thus we're not, as a party, filling those spots with our characters being a party. We're paying attention to the tiger and usually the one or two people the tiger is bouncing around. Not a bad thing there, but the main reason I wouldn't want to see it take more prominance.
Dracos
Re: Serith kitty cat chan!
Yeah, let's try having Iddy run her in combats. It frees me up from the bothers of running another NPC and allows him to coordinate closely with Serith. I'll still handle her RP reactions, and we'll see how that works out. This good for you, Iddy?
--
QuoteSeryf...well, she said it outright IC, she's never been the most nature orientedof rangers. She was trained protecting caravans and around mostly human towns...and she took a primary interest in swordplay. That said, I don't think there have been a huge number of opportunities for it, either. She crit failed the one tracking attempt, but she did manage to locate the path to...um...Corela's town! We haven't really gotten too involved with animals outside those bears, and as they were mind controlled...eh, the best she could do was quick deaths.
Mmmm. That said, I agree she is much more of a nature oriented swordswoman than a sword inclined nature person. I wouldn't entirely mind a shift in the direction of fighter, I guess, as itmakes a lot of sense for her as a character if nothing erupts to drag her back into the greeny deep. Hmm...straight up fighter just really didn't suit in my mind, she has a love for her swords, and a skilled practice with bows, but...she's always been a sort of mobile/specialized/individualist person than the sorta 'medieval martial artist' that fighters come across as.
Yeah. Despite the setting, there haven't been that many obvious animal chances. The best was the bears, but that was only if you were cautious and took a considerable amount of time, which didn't happen. So mmm, yes.
Anyway, that said, I agree with the second paragraph entirely. I wouldn't mind seeing Seryf become a fighter with a couple of minor ranger adds ons and proficiencies if that's where her role takes her. I'm fine with that as long as it's a natural, understandable and not obviously OMG UBER TWINK motives. Mmm. The root of it is that she doesn't quite -feel- like a ranger yet beyond two sword style being used. I suppose I could enforce loss of rangerhood if I feel it goes on far enough, but I'd rather do something more like the above with a gradual evolution away from it if it turns out not to fit Seryf's character. Thoughts, people?
My most immediate rules thoughts say dumpping outright animal empathy/handling and priest spells in favor for being allowed to start taking weapon specialization (as in, 1 profficiency right now at 3rd to fill out the first level of it, then progress as normal).
That's an immediate, rules oriented thought, IC wise, I think it'd have more to do with the book on swordplay she picked up, and the increased group weapons practice we might get into with Elaine joining us sword whipping nutheads on the front lines. >_>
I ask really that if we start having multiple people with weapon specialization that we do exercise restraiint. I'm going to be trying to myself and spreading it out over various levels along with other weapons, techniques, etc; and I'd prefer not ending up one/two proficiency slots back in what is my primary advantage as a character regarding development. My own twinking habits will end up with me flinging proficiency slots there early to keep up if so. Yeah, may be worrying a little but, I do that :).
Dracos
Bows? Special weaponry? Invented ranger bonuses?
Well, the only ones with specialization available as an option are you and Iddy, and maybe May if she goes from Ranger to Fighter.
I wouldn't mind seeing another person capable of casting cure spells (even if it's not till lv8), but if you do try to balance a switch between expertise/specialization by giving her a modified ranger/fighter kit, why not have it that she does get specialization available as an option to her, but it's worth a slot more of weapon proficiency than expertise? It does put some extra restraint on a character that's not strictly a fighter, but isn't strictly a ranger either.
Ranger Fighter?
Seryf shall be known as the RAIGHTER-
Gavin *will* be able to cast cure spells at level 8, but hmm. This sort of highlights the problem of having several similar fights in group. Maybe, instead of going the outright weapon-specilization route, May could focus on those 'local combat styles' mentioned in Combat & Tactics? Stuff like a +1 bonus to AC, or a free extra unarmed attack each round and the like.
I keep thinking of the 'Ranger' class in general as a 'sneaky fighter' rather than 'woodlands protector', which is why I kinda lumped Seryf as a fighter/rogue. Hmm. Well, food for thought.
Seryf's never really be a 'sneaky' fighter, just 'light and fast'. >_>
Which would make some sense in giving her a weapon specialty/improved expertise, and mainting the requisite on studded leather (or maybe chain shirt? I dunno).
Restrict her from spreading her weapon repertoire?
I guess these things seem kind of inconsequential from the POV of 'I'm already sorta there', but it's the kinda thing that would go into a modded class, or at least that's my guess. ^^;;
So y'know,c hatter with Dune and all leads to fun fun revisions and thoughts!
So the running theory at this point would be to:
Retain the following class features:
Tracking Profficiency as a part of class (Does not gain bonuses with levels)
Hide in Shadows/Move Silent per ranger
Two weapon style per ranger
Armor restrictions for class abilities as per ranger
Favored enemy as per ranger
Which prevents Seryf from using: Animal Empathy and ever developing Priest spells Her tracking abilities also aren't as stellar as the average rangers.
(This was formulated on the idea of what's actually been used so far, and reducing the extreme nature oriented aspects of her)
And then making an improved expertise/watered down specialization like the following:
Improved Expertise (Access to, not a part of the class)
1 slot - 2/1 Attack Rate (Expertise as used so far)
2 slot (5th level min.) - +2/+1 Attack/Damage
3rd Slot (6th-9th level) - Speed Factor goes up, +3/+3 Attack/Damage
4th Slot (12th level) - +1 Attack beyond normal progression
Compared to normal Specialization --> Mastery --> Etc progression, this shifts the attack/damage bonuses to higher levels, and omits a critical range increase (?!), as well as an increase of weapon damage dice.
The idea behind this is that while Seryf was trained in, and loves nature, she never truly embraced the magic of her environment and instead focused on the hunting aspects of her training. Even more so than hunting, Seryf had a special love for swordplay, exhibiting a grace and ferocious speed with a pair of longswords.
Due to this, she's exhibited quite a number of traits normally shown in fighters rather than rangers with her chosen weapons, focusing on them much more than perhaps is normal for her class. While her skill with weapons has improved, it has stunted her work with animals and with the elements of nature itself. At the same time, her mobility and flexibility remain in practice, scouting, moving, and fighting in ways that heavier armor would seriously impede.
New Class Name: As of yet, undefined!
New sub class
Name: TBA.
Class scores needed: As Ranger for the moment, will mod later.
Group: Fighter.
HDs: d10
Warrior Con bonus: Yes.
THACO: As a warrior.
Saves: As a warrior.
Required proficiences - Hunting, Tracking.
Class abilities:
Tracking profiency as Rangers.
Hide in Shadows/Move Silently as Rangeres.
Two weapon style as a Ranger, reducing the penalty thereof.
Favored enemy as per Ranger.
Ability to obtain modified weapon expertise/mastery.
Class limitations:
Armor choice is restricted, studded leather is the normal limit.
No Priest spell progression.
No attracting followers as a Fighter or as a Ranger. (This is admittedly moot in this campaign, but I'm listing it for completeness.)
Focus:
Many elves are trained in the ways of forestry. Some of these elves become heralded rangers, protectors of what elves hold dear. More become mundane warriors, well trained but ordinary. But a select few fall in the middle. They excel at the physical and stealth oriented aspects of rangerhood like a thief, yet lack the empathy and bond with nature that is the true mark of a ranger.
These elves that find themselves inbetween are known as (To be determined).
EXP table:
Probably higher than a normal warrior, but maybe a little lower than a Rangers. I need to do some checking up there but that can wait as it's largely a balancing issue.
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Thoughts on this, everyone? Balanced, needs balancing, too close to Ranger to matter, what? I'm particularly interested in the weapon expertise table Hotaru listed - I'm debating on staggering the levels a little more.
Quote from: "Carthrat"Ranger Fighter?
Seryf shall be known as the RAIGHTER-
Gavin *will* be able to cast cure spells at level 8, but hmm. This sort of highlights the problem of having several similar fights in group. Maybe, instead of going the outright weapon-specilization route, May could focus on those 'local combat styles' mentioned in Combat & Tactics? Stuff like a +1 bonus to AC, or a free extra unarmed attack each round and the like.
I keep thinking of the 'Ranger' class in general as a 'sneaky fighter' rather than 'woodlands protector', which is why I kinda lumped Seryf as a fighter/rogue. Hmm. Well, food for thought.
Since this is relevant to the above, any suggestions, Rat?
Who, me?
Call her class the 'Stalker' class, so we can all make clever jokes.
And I still think that instead of Expertise being less-good specilisation, we should differentiate it completely.. but I wouldn't really know how, honestly, so I guess that's not much good.
Oh, and the modified expertise also omits the bonus 1/2 attack Grand Masters get. As that is fully sickly broken when combined with dual wielding and HASTE... (+1 year per casting isn't an issue for an elf. >_>)
Sounds good to me.
As I noted to Ana privately and hotaru publicly: I don't have a problem with either this or normal specialization provided we're on the same general page skillwise.
Dracos
Stalker
Ability Score Requirements: Strength 13, Dexterity 15, Constitution 12
Races allowed: Elf, Half Elf. Humans are possible, but the particular set of circumstances to mint this class tend to be unique to elven culture.
Group: Fighter
HDs: d10
Warrior Con bonus: Yes.
THACO: As a warrior.
Saves: As a warrior.
Required proficiences - Hunting, Tracking.
Class abilities:
Tracking profiency as Rangers.
Hide in Shadows/Move Silently as Rangeres.
Two weapon style as a Ranger, reducing the penalty thereof.
Favored enemy as per Ranger.
Ability to obtain modified weapon expertise/mastery.
Class limitations:
Armor choice is restricted, studded leather is the normal limit.
No Priest spell progression.
No attracting followers as a Fighter or as a Ranger. (This is admittedly moot in this campaign, but I'm listing it for completeness.)
Focus:
Many elves are trained in the ways of forestry. Some of these elves become heralded rangers, protectors of what elves hold dear. More become mundane warriors, well trained but ordinary. But a select few fall in the middle. They excel at the physical and stealth oriented aspects of rangerhood like a thief, yet lack the empathy and bond with nature that is the true mark of a ranger. They may be wise or perhaps not, many are unable to grasp the true wisdom of the forest or never embrace it entirely. Yet they are too talented at the other aspects of rangerhood to abandon them entirely.
These elves that find themselves inbetween are known as Stalkers. They blend away like rogues, fighting competently to defeat their foes. While respected in elven society as a notch below Rangers, full rangers tend to have anything from mild disdain to outright comtempt. They feel that these Stalkers are nothing more than 'dress up rangers' or rogues.
EXP table:
As a Ranger. While they lose some Ranger abilities, they gain enough to make it even out. If level limits are used, they cap at the same level as an elven or half elven ranger. Humans, of course, have no cap.
---
Weapon Expertise!
1 slot - 2/1 Attack Rate (Expertise as used so far)
2 slot (6th level min.) - +2/+1 Attack/Damage
3rd Slot (8th-11th level) - Speed Factor goes up, +3/+3 Attack/Damage
4th Slot (14th level) - +1 Attack beyond normal progression
Looks alright to me, the shifts in the expertise aren't really all that invasive, I think...it keeps from a ZOOM ZOOM DONE kind of progression formally, though that was informally agreed upon. >_>;
ANYWAY, looks fine from my POV. And I guess the elven attitude towards them explains why Seryf really kept to her duties in human relations. <_<
Quote from: "Asrana"Looks alright to me, the shifts in the expertise aren't really all that invasive, I think...it keeps from a ZOOM ZOOM DONE kind of progression formally, though that was informally agreed upon. >_>;
ANYWAY, looks fine from my POV. And I guess the elven attitude towards them explains why Seryf really kept to her duties in human relations. <_<
Heh to the first; that was intended. I trust all of you formally and informally and all, but I wanted it to look balanced on paper. Besides, I may apply this class to an NPC, so the exact build is important.
Yes. It does fit with Seryf's background.