This is to piggyback the Designated Heroes thread. The flipside of the DH is the Designated Villain -- a person the story defines as the heavy even though their actions aren't particularly despicable. In fanfiction, this is closely related to the Villain by Convenience -- taking someone who isn't that bad in the source and exaggerating their bad points (let alone simple attributions which don't belong) to make them evil.
In crossover fanfics, probably the most prominent Designated Villain / Villain by Convenience is Sailor Pluto. In the source, she is undeniably heroic. Many people attribute her an extreme desire to see Crystal Tokyo come into being to the point where she's willing to commit murder to see that happen. This is in spite of the fact that she never demonstrates an attitude remotely like this in the source material. With Pluto, the Sailor Senshi are often made into villains by extension, though they are often shown to be unwitting dupes. Of particular note is that they tend to make Usagi cave in easily to the calls for blood, when that is diametrically opposed to everything we know about her.
A lot of the time DVs come about because of personal dislike for a character or an idea; the utopian Crystal Tokyo, for example.
So, can anybody think of others who have been made heavies without deserving to be?
Every Single Character in Ranma 1/2 who isn't named Ranma or Kasumi. With the most particular being Nabiki.
... I don't think anything more can be added on those ^_^;
Fearless Leader
Hmm.. none come to mind but only Anime counts right?
no, from anything. Anime was just an easy opener because they use designated villians quite a bit in it, especially in fanfiction.
Fearless Leader
Well... in that case. How about Tux-boy AKA Mamoru Chiba of Sailor Moon. I mean sure he's a wimp but in a lot of crossovers where Usagi is paired with Ranma or someone besides him he gets shafted. Not that i'm defending him or anything. He's still a pussy but still. ^_^
Xman, I'd read the description of a designated villain again. Tuxedo mask does occassionally get used as a villain of convinence but it sounds like you are referring to the far more common practice of using him as a designated unlucky dumb smuck. A punching bag persay. His normal traits are rarely amplified to attempt to make him appear villainous solely on that basis. It does happen, but generally we are shown then a possessive antagonistic Mamoru who goes out of his way to alienate Usagi in such cases.
Fearless Leader
You know in those stories they never explain the true reason why he does that. You ever wonder why?
Ah, then you should have been a tad more clear. As I said, there are fics that have Mamoru as the designated villain, but the selection where he acts like a 'pussy' generally is a different group than these.
Fearless Leader
no harm done
My apologies for the mixup. He does get used as a poor smuck though. I guess i've been influenced by all the fics where he was a jerk. I've only seen the anime though. I once heard he wasn't as bad in the manga.
A particular character that i've seen get corrupted is Relena Peacecraft of Gundam Wing. A lot of people seem to dislike her.
I believe it was Cat, I could be wrong, who made a point that Relena is often villified because she gets in the way. It's common knowledge that Gundam Wing is extremely popular for use in yaoi fiction, and the traditional yaoi pairing with Heero is Duo. But watching GW shows that isn't going to happen because of the obvious link between Heero and Relena. In other words, she gets in the way, and people tend to villify her for that, writing her as a shrew or a whiner, when she shows she is neither.
XMan does raise a good point though that Villains of Convenience often come about out of a dislike for a character. There are exceptions, but think about how often, say, Akane Tendo gets bashed and turned into a psycho because the writer dislikes her.
The reason I brought up the subject in the first place for both Designated Heroes and Villains is how often these perceptions become ingrained to become fanon. So many anti-Crystal Tokyo fics have been written by now that many people see the warped dystopia as being the reality. So many fics have been written which slam Mamoru Chiba that he's one of Delphi's most popular whipping targets, along with Akane Tendo and Chibi-Usa.
People have their likes and dislikes, sure, but the danger with DHs and DVs is that they can distort peoples' perceptions of what actually happens in canon. There are a LOT of people who write fics with a minimal knowledge of what actually happens in canon. Sure, diverge from canon, but know what you're diverging from first.
I'm going to make the sidepoint I've always found incredulous that the ones actually most responsible for negative portrayals of Akane aren't 'Akane-bashers' but usuallly Akane fans with the KotF persona. This opinion of mine was recently resolidified through discussions with the unforgettable Peter Suzuki who successfully managed to paint a picture of Akane that was so wretched you wondered why demon horns weren't coming out of her head... and he was the defender of Akane. Combine folks like him with fans that go out and attack authors who portray Akane differently than they like and it's no wonder there is a continually growing fanbase that utterly despises Akane and has that influence their work.
Fearless Leader
I always thought that GW was popular for yaoi because their were no interesting female characters besides Relena. All the main characters were male.
While all the Gundam pilots are male, it's a stretch to say that they're the only important characters in the series. Besides Relena, there's Lady Un, Dorothy, Noin, and several other female characters who play a visible role.
There are several reasons why GW is so popular with the yaoi-set. First, all the main male characters can be considered bishonen, and that attracts fangirls like honey does flies. Second, there is a strong subtext in the actual canon with two male characters (Trowa and Quatre), and the realations between other male characters is ambiguous enough that the yaoi writers don't find it much of a stretch. This is apparently by design -- the show's producers knew that there's a big female fanbase who likes yaoi, and they decided to broaden the show's viewership that way.
I should point out here and now that fanfiction is perhaps the WORST way to get an idea of what GW is actually like, moreso than many other series. Most of the GW fics I've seen are only interested in romances (yaoi or not), and use the characters but little else. GW deals with a lot of things, and romance is really a fairly small part of it. GW fiction, in my opinion, tends to miss the forest for the trees.
Hmm... well that explains a few things. Thanks for the info Adon.^_^
This opinion of mine was recently resolidified through discussions with the unforgettable Peter Suzuki who successfully managed to paint a picture of Akane that was so wretched you wondered why demon horns weren't coming out of her head... and he was the defender of Akane. Combine folks like him with fans that go out and attack authors who portray Akane differently than they like and it's no wonder there is a continually growing fanbase that utterly despises Akane and has that influence their work.
Yeah, Suzuki does a...unique job of defending Akane. He's the stereotype of a bad Akane fan, and he drives more people off Akane then anything. I didn't like Akane before I met him, but now I'm wondering if she's the spawn of Satan and a really drunk Marge Schott. Anyway, it's just sad that the fans and defenders of a particular character hurt them more than they defend them. Akane's not a saint, but she's far from a villian in the R 1/2 canon.(Wellll....)
I should point out here and now that fanfiction is perhaps the WORST way to get an idea of what GW is actually like, moreso than many other series.
Yeah. Every time I check out the GW section on fanfiction.net, I want to scream something to effect of 'GW isn't a damn yaoi hookup show and Relena isn't a demonic bitch!' GW's mood doesn't really translate well to the written word IMO, and it shows.
Another person who I think gets stuffed in the role of desginated villian is Ryouko/Akeya, depending on which the author prefers for Tenchi(Or both if they want to hook him up with someone else.) It doesn't happen as much as some others, but I've read a few too many fics where the one who gets the shaft with Tenchi goes psycho or metamorphs into evil shrew #666. Neither are saints, but give me a break.
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Another person who I think gets stuffed in the role of desginated villian is Ryouko/Akeya, depending on which the author prefers for Tenchi(Or both if they want to hook him up with someone else.) It doesn't happen as much as some others, but I've read a few too many fics where the one who gets the shaft with Tenchi goes psycho or metamorphs into evil shrew #666. Neither are saints, but give me a break.
I agree to that . I haven't seen any stories where Ryouko is like that but I have seen some where Aeka is. I mean come on she may snooty but even she can be sweet sometimes.
It just irks me that some Authors will go out of their way to bash a character they don't like,and paint one they like out to be some kind of saint.
I don't like Akane either but I don't enjoy reading fics that senselessly bash her either.
Yeah, I see it more often with Ayeka. Alot of middling Tenchi/Ryouko fans seem to be perfectly happy writing off Ayeka as a bitch, while passing off Tenchi and Ryouko as the next <Insert favorite couple>. Of course, there are fics that are the opposite, with Ryouko taking the lumps.
I admit, I enjoy some Akane bash fics(Shampoo's Revenge comes to mind), but I get turned off by a very high level of senseless Akane bashing. If you want to break her and Ranma up, fine, but don't make her the typical Satanic ex that bears all the blame for the breakup.
I think the mindset in some of these cases, or at least the ones that deal with romantic entanglements, is that people tend to choose favorites and a concurrent least favorite character and that it filters through to their work. Also, I think bash fics on one side beget bash fics on the other side. Once one side starts writing nasty fics, the other side is going to want to hit back. This leads to all sorts of character mangling and harsh feelings. It's something of a vicious circle, I think.
Look what happened to Gregg Sharp(I think that's who I have in mind), he got flak during his Bet series from Pro Akaners, and now he one of her detractors. This pissed Pro Akane people off more, they make more nasty comments to authors, and the cycle continues.
The Kotf were also real biased and immature. They were the worst Pro Akane supporters out. It was rumored that they were the one's who created that virus that crashed two of Hung Nguyen's websites. Hell they would flame and berate anybody who wrote a fic that didn't pair Ranma with Akane. Bunch of Hypocrites if you ask me.
A particular duo that get marked as designated villians would be Haruka and Michiru. In a lot of Ranma crossovers they are targeted as potential enemies of Ranma.
Now I know when they were first introduced there was definately some tension between them and the inners. But by the time the last season came around they had already proved their loyalty to Usagi. If you ignore the fact that they didn't trust the starlights.
Yes I agree that their methods of dealing with things in the series were to be questioned,but I think some Authors tend to exaggerate their personalities a bit.
A perfect example would be Vengeance and a Half. No offense to Fire but thats a perfect example of how some people characterize the two.
I think actually "Vengeance and a half" is a horrible example of designated Villains. We clearly are meant to feel sympathy for Haruka and Michiru in it. That alone makes it not a villainification fic. Fire is quite notably for managing to make virtually everyone and the kitchen sink get a good side in his fics.
As far as those two go, I believe we can lay a lot of the blame on the anime and oft poor translations we get. Combined with people who only saw the opening season with Haruka and Michiru and you have quite a lot of room for bad characterization.
I think a better example of them being designated Villains is Dark Phoenix's "Phantom and the Silence". Therein we find no sympathy for any plight of Haruka or Michiru.
Heh heh... sorry about that mistake.
Ranma & Cologne.
If you've ever read some of the stories done by Ryoga/Akane fans or KOTF/Akane
obsessed people you know what I'm talking about.
Ranma as a villain can work, if done with effort and the author knows what they're doing.
But taking him in canon and suddenly making *him* to be the main abusive one in the Ranma/Akane
relationship is so bizzare that its not even funny. Suddenly Ranma is the jealous/threatening/scumbag
that needs to be dealt with by a *heroic* Ryoga/SI insert, its enough to make one think they're smoking whatever
Kuno's on.
I believe there's a MST of one such folly in Larry F's page somewhere.
And Cologne as the evil/murdering/super witch, perhaps the most overused and *UNTRUE* cliche ever used in Ranma fanfics. Even some of the more readable fics used this tired old bit as a plot device, but its *really* hard to pull this off and get the reader to believe it. It just pisses me off whenever I see this used, especially when I see in the author notes something along the lines of "I hate the amazons, Akane is the only one for Ranma..." Bleech....
*Breathes*
Okay, I'm done venting.
I agree with you on that one RangerShade. Cologne has been portrayed as a villian in many of the Kotf stories. Some people make her out to be a cold, conniving bitch. If I remember correctly a lot of the schemes that were pulled on Ranma by the Amazons were Shampoo's ideas and not Cologne's. I think Cologne let up some after the Phoneix pill arc. I'm not sure,but it's just a thought.
As for the Ryouga/Akane issue,Ranma is usually dead or not around. When he is they do make him out to be the abusive one in the relationship. While I dislike Akane, my opinion is that they both have their faults. Some people claim that Ranma is always insulting Akane,and if he didn't they would get along better. I don't agree with that one. While it is true that Ranma insults her,he usually calls her things like uncute,and a tomboy. I consider those words to be tame compared to some insults. At least he doesn't call her things like stupid bitch,whore,slut,or many other derogatory names. Uncute may be insulting,but it doesn't justify her the right to hit Ranma like she does. I'm sorry for the language,but I felt I had to be blunt abut the subject.
Just a warning, we've all seen pro/anti akane arguments before. They generally are ugly and result in a few hundred negative posts. That is not going to happen here.
Fearless leader
I understand Drac. I was just posting my thoughts on the matter. I don't like arguements. They're not worth my time. ^_^
Just a warning, we've all seen pro/anti akane arguments before. They generally are ugly and result in a few hundred negative posts. That is not going to happen here.
Crud.
*Puts away his sword of Akane Slaying+40*
I agree with you Dracos, but it's hard to pass up the chance to slam that bit......er, Akane. :)
Uncute may be insulting,but it doesn't justify her the right to hit Ranma like she does.
Hmm...Do you think Akane would be justified if he was calling her a bitch, whore, ect al?
I'm not trying to drum up a argument, I'm just curious about your line of thought on it, Xman. If your response could be too argument provoking, you can PM it to me.
Yes I think she would be justified. I may dislike Akane but if Ranma was calling her things like that,there would be a better reason for Akane hitting him like she does. Sorta like Ataru and Lum with his perversions, and cheating on her ne? In a messed up sorta way that is. ^_^
Another I've seen lately is Chi Chi. (Yes, I've been reading DBZ fanfiction. Pity me.) In the source material, she's...well, she's something of a bitch, especially in the light she is portrayed in.
But I've read quite a few fanfictions where she's just this UBER BITCH that lives to repress Goku and Gohan from life, liberty and the pursuit of Vegeta's asshole. I mean, yeah. She can be bitchy in the source. But she's not this heartless whore that you're making her out to be.
You know?
Heh. I don't read DBZ fics as a rule usually, but Chi-Chi is a cliche overprotective mother. That's how she's played and that's the comic device behind her. Misrepresenting her into a bitch is missing that. She's supposed to be an absurdity. Worrying about the safety of her son who could nuke half the world without breaking a sweat. Same with her relationship with Goku. It's an absurdity, not meant to be viewed in an incredibly serious light or exaberated further past funny into sadistic.
Fearless Leader
I can't think of any other good examples in the anime I've seen but I use to read a lot of X-Men comics and fan fiction and Wolverine got raped as a designated villian. Arguably the most popular X-Man and hero it seems fans only want to see him go psycho and kill half of his fellow X-Men before they manage to kill him.
I even read one particulairly bad story in which Wolverine goes insane, kidnaps Professor X (whose powers are ineffective on Wolverine's now totally messed up mind), and forces the X-Men to kill Magento in return for Professor X's safety. Then he kills Professor X anyway and half of the X-Men before they can stop him.
And this was all based on Wolverine's one bad character trait as a hero!
"Same with her relationship with Goku. It's an absurdity, not meant to be viewed in an incredibly serious light or exaberated further past funny into sadistic."
Heh. I'm reminded of a fic I read based on the part where Goku was arrested for spousal abuse after the incident where he accidentally knocked Chi Chi through the wall and into a tree...
Worrying about the safety of her son who could nuke half the world without breaking a sweat. Same with her relationship with Goku.
In fairness, they face opponents that are generally much stronger than them. *Shrugs*
And maybe I just didn't like Chi Chi, but I never found her to be funny. Bitchy at times, but never funny.
I did not find her to be funny either, but it was clear what they were going for. It's the same with a lot of dragon ball z humor for me. It's pathetic, low brow, and less than amusing.
Fearless Leader