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Started by Anastasia, April 04, 2013, 04:55:37 PM

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Merc

Quote from: Anastasia on April 04, 2013, 10:45:22 PM
Quote from: Merc on April 04, 2013, 10:30:07 PMIn two levels, Santos should typically be providing +1 accuracy to everyone through Paradigm Shift: Commando, which will likely be his default stance. Though given the comment about leveling speed, that may be a bit of a wait.

Meant to ask this earlier, but how do paradigm shifts work? I'm familiar with the concept from FF13 (insert snarky line about FF13 sucking here as you desire), but I'm not up on how they implemented it in FFd6.

When I get the ability, I pick three stances. I'll pick Commando/Ravager/Sentinel probably.

The first time I switch in combat, I can switch to a stance as an instant action. Any time else in combat, it takes a standard action. So I could start in Commando, switch to Ravager as an instant, and in a later round switch to Commando again as a standard.

I was debating on Synergist, but we haven't done a single Teamwork attack, so it doesn't feel right to grab it. Medic seems pointless, I'd be better off using a Phoenix Down. Sure it costs money, but it won't eat an extra turn. In combat, that's pretty valuable, especially when one is playing a hothead.

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QuoteIt's worth noting that in a traditional video game, characters also have more HP and combat lasts more rounds. I don't think it's fair to excuse it with "It's patterned after a traditional FF game".

Do they? Random encounters are usually over in a few rounds. That's about right for a video game, barring games with longer random battles (example: FFT) or games where a single multitarget move can wipe out randoms instantly. I'm sure either side can produce examples and counter examples with the size of the genre, so let's get to the point here. I feel it's reasonable based on the desired random battle style I'm going for.

Agreed with bosses not lasting as long as I'd like. This is mostly due to the tabletop issues you mention below.

Well, okay, random encounters -do- go quick, but that's because video games have so many of them. I'll grant you that there. I'll stand by the comment that only bosses can typically wipe out characters in a single round though, so video games -do- grant player characters more HP.

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QuoteTabletop gaming requires a faster pace of combat, but it'd also mean that dodging should be more reliable, or it should just be done away with as a mechanic. If you want to have it as a mechanic, then just have characters have a base percentage avoidance rate based on their class, and modifiers from items increase it by 1-10% depending on the rank of the item.

Avoidance as a mechanical stat is just very badly handled in the system currently.

I don't disagree with AVD having problems here. Lemme frame this with the system and what's trying to emulate. In most FF games, evasion happens but isn't too common. It is usually possible to set up a high evasion character and this works, but it requires working towards it. This goes hand in hand with the point I made above: If you want more evasion, go for more evasion. Equip things that boost it and work to raise it up.

I'm not trying to say your complaint is invalid. I'm just saying, y'know?

RPG Video games in general, not just FF, don't have characters evade tank commonly. I agree with you there. It is also possible to set up a high evasion character in a video game, but it requires effort. Again, I agree with you.

Again though, video game characters have more HP. They can take hits, even ninjas. Here, 1-3 hits usually means KO. If you have high HP to play with, evasion can suck it. If you don't, evasion has to -matter-.

If -any- character actually closely resembles video game systems, it's the monk/Autumn. They're designed around HP, not evasion. Other characters? Not so much.

My opinion is that if you're going to truly emulate the system, you also have to emulate the higher HP. This is noticeably harder in one part because of the lower quantity of levels to play through as well, therefore I don't feel that in designing a tabletop system, you want to emulate that aspect. Not as a gimmicky mechanic anyway.

Note that I still stated that a percentage based avoidance by class would still be okay. It's trying to make an actual stat that needs to be managed, and is managed badly, where I disagree.

QuoteOoooh yeah. I've done some behind-the-scenes surgery here. I redid the weapons system, ignored a good half recommended monster generation and synthing rules and so on. It's still an imperfect homebrew, albeit an impressive one that deserves praise.

Oh, it's definitely super impressive, and I think it's done a lot of awesome stuff. Hell, I'd say it's better balanced than BESM Sailor Moon, and that was a -commercial- system.

The only homebrew system I've seen as impressive is 3.ko, and that wasn't from scratch.
<Cidward> God willing, we'll all meet in Buttquest 2: The Quest for More Butts.

Iron Dragoon

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My quickest advice is to try and score the next stat boosting source item that would help you. They aren't reliable as of now, but they do exist and can help smooth over those issues. Beyond that, see how things work out with paladin and tweak from there.

Yeah, I am. That's why I got the +2 res on the one pistol. Unless there's something for a direct Force boost, I think that solution is only going to marginally help, though. Like I said, the math heavily favors melee for it.
This is not the greatest post in the world, no... this is just a tribute.

Merc

OH! One feedback for other players:

Remember to use "ooc:" behind the out-of-character messages in game channel. Mycol's pretty bad on this one. Morrie's missed a few, but nothing I'd normally take note of it wasn't for all the ones I notice off Mycol.

I do go and try to edit them into logs, but still!
<Cidward> God willing, we'll all meet in Buttquest 2: The Quest for More Butts.

Nephrite

The only thing I have to say at least from a roleplaying standpoint is that Morrie wasn't designed to be a leader. If it will make things run smoothly for a dungeon then I can have him 'lead,' but he isn't designed to be a leadership-type hero.

Veryslightlymad

Character/Player

1. How do you feel your character has turned out the past so far? From a mechanical standpoint? An RP standpoint?  Do you feel you're pulling your load? Why or why not?
Mechanically, I'm still getting used to Mycol. There are a lot of things that I can do that I often forget/don't realize until after I've expended my action. I know I can be really slow at picking an action, so this often leads to me doing something sub-optimal, such as my continual double-maracas. Like, I forget that haste will let me quick-cast. Or the other night, I didn't notice that Titan had spells. I could have maybe turned the fight if I'd cast Stona on all targets. It wouldn't have finished the ghouls, but it'd have made them finishable.

2. How do you get along with the other players? Good points, bad points, hangups, irritations, praise?
I like the other players just fine. I don't really know anyone that well, even Nephy, whom I've known for years. I'm just generally nervous in these situations.

3. Where do you see your character going? How do you see that enabling them to get where you want them to go, both mechanically and RP-wise? Do you feel you can reach this as it stands now?
Part of why I made a character with as much of a slate as Mycol is that it lets me improvise a little bit. Mechanically, I need to class change once or twice, and to learn some more useful spells. I eventually see myself getting stints in Blue and Red Mage. RP-Wise, my goals feel like they're sort of on the rails. If Mycol succeeds as a hero, then he's succeeded in his goals, yeah? Humans would pretty much HAVE to accept him.* (*may not actually be how world works)

World/Plot

4. What are the adventures and situations you've enjoyed lately? Why? What are the adventures and situations you've not enjoyed lately? Why?
I've liked the situations that Lehko could bomb/tinker. I like enervating things for reasons I cannot comprehend. I felt like the "Explore the dungeon" thing was a bit too long, and that was largely pretty much everyone (myself included) being slow to pick a direction or a plan and stick with it.

5. What could I do to get more of the good and less of the bad? Why?
Really, although it's been several sessions, we've not been in too many new environments. As long as you keep the areas we go to interesting, I figure it'll work out organically.

6. What could other players do to get less of the bad and more of the good? Why?
I don't know if it's an unwritten rule (or an ACTUALLY written rule) to not strategize, but I find myself often asking for input on what I can do and getting nothing. I'm very uncomfortable using the party's bag of items without permission, because I am -crazy-.

7. What could you do to get more good and less bad? Why?
I really need to learn the ins and outs of my abilities better. You've mentioned the double-maracas thing yourself, and I want to reiterate it. A lot of the time I feel like I can't do anything particularly useful, so I just sort of default to what's easy. I'm hoping this is something I'll grow out of as I start to remember more.

8. How's the tone of the game? Too dark? Too light?
I wasn't here for the dark part, so so far it's quite light, but I'm happy with that. If it were to get darker, I think I'd be OK with that, too. If it got GRIM DARK, that'd bug me.

Mechanics

9. How have the new initiative rules been working for you? Do they work as written or do you want to change them?
I don't mind them

10. How have the monsters been designed for you? Are they interesting?
I'm very pleased that a minority percentage of monsters have been constructs. It lets me enervate things, but you've kept the number of constructs low enough where it's like, a situational advantage and not catering to my strengths. I almost want to say monsters could stand to be a bit tougher, and then we went and wiped on the last battle, so maybe they're just fine.

11. What about the bosses, and in particular the more complicated ways I set them up? Do you think this scripting is a good thing or bad thing? Why?
Hard to say, so far. Breaking the Dark Elf's script was hilarious. Shiva was essentially a count-down boss that we failed. Sample size is 2, but it's a decent 2.

12. Any suggestions for new houserules?
No.

Other

13. Anything to add that wasn't covered elsewhere?
We gotta keep an updated item sheet on either the first or last page of one of these topics. Or in its own post. I wasn't using the current bag the last fight, and when I found it, it wasn't even on the current page of the loot topic.

Anastasia

I'll get to the posts above later.

Quote from: Veryslightlymad on April 05, 2013, 03:07:24 AMMechanically, I'm still getting used to Mycol. There are a lot of things that I can do that I often forget/don't realize until after I've expended my action. I know I can be really slow at picking an action, so this often leads to me doing something sub-optimal, such as my continual double-maracas. Like, I forget that haste will let me quick-cast. Or the other night, I didn't notice that Titan had spells. I could have maybe turned the fight if I'd cast Stona on all targets. It wouldn't have finished the ghouls, but it'd have made them finishable.

Have you considered making an options cheatsheet? It's a short, concise summary of various possibilities and can help streamline option paralysis. Like a note about how haste and casting work together or possible item uses.

QuotePart of why I made a character with as much of a slate as Mycol is that it lets me improvise a little bit. Mechanically, I need to class change once or twice, and to learn some more useful spells. I eventually see myself getting stints in Blue and Red Mage. RP-Wise, my goals feel like they're sort of on the rails. If Mycol succeeds as a hero, then he's succeeded in his goals, yeah? Humans would pretty much HAVE to accept him.* (*may not actually be how world works)

I'd like to note that class change won't be the only way to learn new spells. The mechanic for learning spells via class change is clunky and somewhat punishing. I'm working on various options, but here is one example:

Poisona Tome: Tier - consumable, 1 gil. Teaches user Poisona. (Notes: Can be used by anyone. It's treated as a spell you learned and thus can be used in any class.)

This isn't the sort of thing you can count on (beggars can't be choosers), but I do intend to blend in some extra spells, techniques and bonuses divorced from level gains.

QuoteI've liked the situations that Lehko could bomb/tinker. I like enervating things for reasons I cannot comprehend. I felt like the "Explore the dungeon" thing was a bit too long, and that was largely pretty much everyone (myself included) being slow to pick a direction or a plan and stick with it.

Yeah. It's easy for dungeons to stall a bit and we had a few stalls. It isn't that long a dungeon on paper, but on paper and gaming reality only have a passing knowledge of each other. I'm fiddling with options for the classic dungeon crawl style of thing to achieve greater speed. What Iddy did helped speed things along when the choices were relatively mundane and the party broke into serious discussion/paused when it mattered, like coming across those brick walls you broke down.

QuoteI don't know if it's an unwritten rule (or an ACTUALLY written rule) to not strategize, but I find myself often asking for input on what I can do and getting nothing. I'm very uncomfortable using the party's bag of items without permission, because I am -crazy-.

I generally don't comment on that in game, since I don't feel the DM's role is to tell y'all how to overcome challenges. I suspect you'll get more than encouraged by the others to use items as needed, though.

QuoteI wasn't here for the dark part, so so far it's quite light, but I'm happy with that. If it were to get darker, I think I'd be OK with that, too. If it got GRIM DARK, that'd bug me.

I'm not a grim dark person so you don't have to worry about that. I prefer endurance and fighting against the dark, not 40k style shittery. So I doubt grimdark should come up.

QuoteI'm very pleased that a minority percentage of monsters have been constructs. It lets me enervate things, but you've kept the number of constructs low enough where it's like, a situational advantage and not catering to my strengths. I almost want to say monsters could stand to be a bit tougher, and then we went and wiped on the last battle, so maybe they're just fine.

Well, randoms shouldn't be ballpunchingly hard often. Anything above randoms and all bets are off. See Shiva, she's a nastier fight. The Dark Elf was set up to be potentially hard too, but Maelstrom shenanigans finished that right off.

QuoteHard to say, so far. Breaking the Dark Elf's script was hilarious. Shiva was essentially a count-down boss that we failed. Sample size is 2, but it's a decent 2.

Agreed about the Dark Elf. I thought it was funny too. I was a little annoyed, but more at the Maelstrom being a pain in the ass to resolve on the DM side of things.

QuoteWe gotta keep an updated item sheet on either the first or last page of one of these topics. Or in its own post. I wasn't using the current bag the last fight, and when I found it, it wasn't even on the current page of the loot topic.

If one of you wants to make a topic for bag maintenance, I can sticky it and y'all can use that as a tracker for it. Alternately, maybe quote the bag in loot at the start of a session and use that as current?
<Afina> Imagine a tiny pixie boot stamping on a devil's face.
<Afina> Forever.

<Yuthirin> Afina, giant parasitic rainbow space whale.
<IronDragoon> I mean, why not?

Veryslightlymad

QuoteIf one of you wants to make a topic for bag maintenance, I can sticky it and y'all can use that as a tracker for it. Alternately, maybe quote the bag in loot at the start of a session and use that as current?
Yeah. I was thinking actually, just separating it from Neph's character sheet and giving it its own post at the bottom of the character sheet page. Since I'm the one who had the issue I suppose I should volunteer to do it, but I'm absent minded and distract easy and generally don't pay attention to details.

Nephrite

I can keep it up-to-date.

Anastasia

Quote from: Iron Dragoon on April 04, 2013, 11:02:13 PMYeah, I admit this. But at the same time, I've only been in the game for a few sessions, so I/VSM are behind in character establishment and development. As it is, I'm just now starting to get comfortable with Lehko's personality and what direction I want him to go.

Fair enough. It's easy to forget that.

QuoteHmm.. Either would work. Finesse would probably be the way to go, as since it's a derived score, it's lower. I think using the lower score as a bonus would help to keep things from going crazy and having a bonus in excess of your possible rolls. Lehko's a good exampe with 11 DEX. It'd be hard for him *not* to go first everytime, I think. But when you put a 4 finesse in there, it's a bit more reasonable.

Yeah, that's about my opinion on it. I don't see any need to blow up the numbers here, especially when finesse is sufficient.

QuoteYeah, this. Like I said, this seems to be something that causes issues in *every* IRC game. It's easy for people to get distracted while sitting at the computer.

True enough. I usually ignore or minimize distractions and throw myself into DMing. I know I won't stay undisturbed, but I position myself to reduce these occurrences as much as possible. I also give myself a minute or two every hour to glance at something and stretch my mental muscles. Skimming the news or checking my email lets my mind shift a few gears.
<Afina> Imagine a tiny pixie boot stamping on a devil's face.
<Afina> Forever.

<Yuthirin> Afina, giant parasitic rainbow space whale.
<IronDragoon> I mean, why not?

Anastasia

Quote from: Merc on April 04, 2013, 11:04:20 PMWhen I get the ability, I pick three stances. I'll pick Commando/Ravager/Sentinel probably.

The first time I switch in combat, I can switch to a stance as an instant action. Any time else in combat, it takes a standard action. So I could start in Commando, switch to Ravager as an instant, and in a later round switch to Commando again as a standard.

I was debating on Synergist, but we haven't done a single Teamwork attack, so it doesn't feel right to grab it. Medic seems pointless, I'd be better off using a Phoenix Down. Sure it costs money, but it won't eat an extra turn. In combat, that's pretty valuable, especially when one is playing a hothead.

Okay, thanks. Sounds like it'll provide you some extra options in battle and that's good. The party ACC boost or the personal defense bonus both sound really good for you.

QuoteOh, it's definitely super impressive, and I think it's done a lot of awesome stuff. Hell, I'd say it's better balanced than BESM Sailor Moon, and that was a -commercial- system.

The only homebrew system I've seen as impressive is 3.ko, and that wasn't from scratch.

Being better designed than proto BESM isn't hard. Snark aside, you're right and I don't mind some system surgery. It helps make it your own, yeah?
<Afina> Imagine a tiny pixie boot stamping on a devil's face.
<Afina> Forever.

<Yuthirin> Afina, giant parasitic rainbow space whale.
<IronDragoon> I mean, why not?