Random DM nagging 3: NO ESCAPE

[Yuthirin]

Merc's post last since it's huge.

I'm considering Nightmare Spinner. Thoughts?

Capstone would need to be revised, but it's good otherwise. It's mind-affecting by and large, which will run into some stoppers.

Even at this level? We're not looking at mid-high levels yet. We're still in the mid-low range.

[Anastasia]

Okay, so some questions:
1) Would the Magic-Blooded/Spark template be allowed? I was interested in human with that template. 3rd party source: Dragon 306

"Template Effects": ShowHide

Racial Adjustment: CHA+2, WIS-2
Vision: Lose any special vision from base race, gain low-light vision
Skills: +2 racial Knowledge (arcana) / Spellcraft. Sparks can use these skills untrained.
SLAs: Can use 1/day (each) Detect Magic, Magic Aura, Read Magic (CL = character level)
LA: +0

[/spoiler]

Seems innocent enough, though as a rule of thumb, I won't allow more than one +0 template.

2) I just noticed the house rule saying that PrCs cannot be entered before 6th without permission. Since we can't take prestige classes on the same level, requesting permission to take Spellsword at level 5. Bone Knight can be entered at level 5, Spellsword can be entered at level 6. I'm switching the level that I enter each in this build.

No, sorry. You'll have to set things back a level or work something out in that case.

Bone Knight's armor class ability is only medium/heavy, not light. Dread Necromancer can only use light armor without ASF triggering, and I can't make mithral bones (Alternatively, if there is some sort of mithral bones equivalent for reducing ASF 10%, that'd be awesome).

"Class Breakdown": ShowHide

1: Paladin / Dread Necromancer
2: Paladin / DN
3: Paladin / DN
4: Paladin / DN
5: Favored Soul / Spellsword
6: Bone Knight / DN
7: BK / DN

I'd just recommend grabbing the twilight armor enhancement. It's a +1 equivalent and you can slap it onto your bone armor.

3) Since Turn/Rebuke Undead was rewritten to be more in line with Pathfinder, how does the Command portion of Rebuke work in this case? Would I need to pick up the corresponding pathfinder feat? Do I still do a turning check in that case? Or do I just fully lose ability to try and gain control of enemy undead?

To be totally honest, I never use rebuke undead, so it's never come up. The feat's a fine substitute.

3b) What happens with abilities involving turn resistance? As an example, Master of the White Banner grant controlled undead turn resistance equal to CHA. Would turn resistance just turn into a bonus to the undead's saves, AC, other?

Each 1 point of turn resistance becomes resistance to positive energy 5. For example, an undead creature with turn resistance 3 has resistance to positive energy 15. This stacks with any pre-existing resistance to positive energy that the creature has.

4) Would the slaad generally be accommodating to mounted combat in his dungeons? I pick up a phantom steed from Bone Knight, but I don't want to invest in mounted combat feats if I'll have to keep dispelling/summoning to get him into rooms, getting on him, and generally being off him during combat that starts as soon as we enter a room.

Varies wildly. That said, the default format is a dungeon, so going for mounts may not be the wisest move. But with slaad, there's certainly going to be unexpected times where it's useful.

4b) If mounted combat will be fairly situational, would I have the option of replacing special mount with typical paladin ACFs? Would Bone Knight + Paladin stack for ACFs that depend on paladin level?

PrCs generally don't get ACFs. ACFs are the domain of base classes. PrCs are usually taken as is.

5) Since I channel negative energy, will I be hurting my allies every time I use it, or can I avoid them? Potentially related to option 3, if we encounter enemy undead, do I inadvertently heal them if I channel energy or can I ignore them? If the answer is yes to both, is there a way to not do so? The closest equivalent I've seen is Extraordinary Spell Aim feat, which is for mass area destruction spells for level 12+ characters. But also too high level for this.

Yes, you'd potentially damage nearby allies and heal nearby hostile undead. A feat that allows you to aim is perfectly reasonable, homebrew one up and I'll go with it.

6) Since I'd get Rebuke Undead from three sources (well, four, but one stacks), can I replace with any turning ACF, or do I have to follow class-specific requirement? As an example, Dread Necromancer doesn't have any ACFs, but wondering if I could replace their Rebuke with Divine Counterspell (paladin/cleric ACF). Alternatively: Could I replace with turning-centric feats?

Depends. What classes ahve redundant channel energy that you'd like to trade out?

[Anastasia]

Any input on animal companion? I know there are things that get kinda hijinky in what you can pick, so I just want to know if there's anything you want me to avoid.

It depends. How many levels of ranger are you looking at here?

I've got 5 ATM. I doubt we'll be playing long enough to max out HW, so unless there's a compelling reason to switch back from HW to Ranger, that'll probably be it.

Not a whole lot, since I usually ACF animal companions out. This is purely so I have less overhead in running things. If you don't take any more ranger levels, your companion will fall behind, though. Up to you if you think it's still worth it.

[Anastasia]

Merc's post last since it's huge.

I'm considering Nightmare Spinner. Thoughts?

Capstone would need to be revised, but it's good otherwise. It's mind-affecting by and large, which will run into some stoppers.

Even at this level? We're not looking at mid-high levels yet. We're still in the mid-low range.

This level? Not so much beyond creatures innately immune. But it's worth mentioning since it is one of the things often stopped or guarded against. Just fair warning.

[Merc]

Okay, so some questions:
1) Would the Magic-Blooded/Spark template be allowed? I was interested in human with that template. 3rd party source: Dragon 306

"Template Effects": ShowHide

Racial Adjustment: CHA+2, WIS-2
Vision: Lose any special vision from base race, gain low-light vision
Skills: +2 racial Knowledge (arcana) / Spellcraft. Sparks can use these skills untrained.
SLAs: Can use 1/day (each) Detect Magic, Magic Aura, Read Magic (CL = character level)
LA: +0

[/spoiler]

Seems innocent enough, though as a rule of thumb, I won't allow more than one +0 template.

That's fine, I wasn't planning on any other templates. I'd thought about asking Necropolitan instead, but figured that was too much.

2) I just noticed the house rule saying that PrCs cannot be entered before 6th without permission. Since we can't take prestige classes on the same level, requesting permission to take Spellsword at level 5. Bone Knight can be entered at level 5, Spellsword can be entered at level 6. I'm switching the level that I enter each in this build.

No, sorry. You'll have to set things back a level or work something out in that case.

Bone Knight's armor class ability is only medium/heavy, not light. Dread Necromancer can only use light armor without ASF triggering, and I can't make mithral bones (Alternatively, if there is some sort of mithral bones equivalent for reducing ASF 10%, that'd be awesome).

"Class Breakdown": ShowHide

1: Paladin / Dread Necromancer
2: Paladin / DN
3: Paladin / DN
4: Paladin / DN
5: Favored Soul / Spellsword
6: Bone Knight / DN
7: BK / DN

I'd just recommend grabbing the twilight armor enhancement. It's a +1 equivalent and you can slap it onto your bone armor.

Unfortunately, breastplates are 25% ASF so twilight alone won't cut it. Plan was twilight for -10%, Thistledown Padding for -5%, and Spellsword for -10%. Normally I would use mithral for -10%, but obviously, can't, because bone. Alternatively I could have used feycraft/githcraft for -5% each...but I am neither fey nor githyanki. I suppose I could have had a fey bone knight and a githyanki bone knight help me...but that seems like it's really stretching it.

So as of now I am deciding between replacing dread necromancer or the bone knight. Or Battle Caster feat, but I'm feeling feat-starved too right now.

3) Since Turn/Rebuke Undead was rewritten to be more in line with Pathfinder, how does the Command portion of Rebuke work in this case? Would I need to pick up the corresponding pathfinder feat? Do I still do a turning check in that case? Or do I just fully lose ability to try and gain control of enemy undead?

To be totally honest, I never use rebuke undead, so it's never come up. The feat's a fine substitute.

I will keep this in mind.

3b) What happens with abilities involving turn resistance? As an example, Master of the White Banner grant controlled undead turn resistance equal to CHA. Would turn resistance just turn into a bonus to the undead's saves, AC, other?

Each 1 point of turn resistance becomes resistance to positive energy 5. For example, an undead creature with turn resistance 3 has resistance to positive energy 15. This stacks with any pre-existing resistance to positive energy that the creature has.

Good to know. That makes sense.

4) Would the slaad generally be accommodating to mounted combat in his dungeons? I pick up a phantom steed from Bone Knight, but I don't want to invest in mounted combat feats if I'll have to keep dispelling/summoning to get him into rooms, getting on him, and generally being off him during combat that starts as soon as we enter a room.

Varies wildly. That said, the default format is a dungeon, so going for mounts may not be the wisest move. But with slaad, there's certainly going to be unexpected times where it's useful.

I knew it was a dungeon, but again, slaad. Plus from memory of Ithea's adventures, the only times a mount didn't seem like it would have worked was the corridor with the rolling boulder of doom/sea of hot liquid gold.

4b) If mounted combat will be fairly situational, would I have the option of replacing special mount with typical paladin ACFs? Would Bone Knight + Paladin stack for ACFs that depend on paladin level?

PrCs generally don't get ACFs. ACFs are the domain of base classes. PrCs are usually taken as is.

I'll keep this in mind.

5) Since I channel negative energy, will I be hurting my allies every time I use it, or can I avoid them? Potentially related to option 3, if we encounter enemy undead, do I inadvertently heal them if I channel energy or can I ignore them? If the answer is yes to both, is there a way to not do so? The closest equivalent I've seen is Extraordinary Spell Aim feat, which is for mass area destruction spells for level 12+ characters. But also too high level for this.

Yes, you'd potentially damage nearby allies and heal nearby hostile undead. A feat that allows you to aim is perfectly reasonable, homebrew one up and I'll go with it.

*nods* I'll keep this in mind. I have a thought for this.

6) Since I'd get Rebuke Undead from three sources (well, four, but one stacks), can I replace with any turning ACF, or do I have to follow class-specific requirement? As an example, Dread Necromancer doesn't have any ACFs, but wondering if I could replace their Rebuke with Divine Counterspell (paladin/cleric ACF). Alternatively: Could I replace with turning-centric feats?

Depends. What classes have redundant channel energy that you'd like to trade out?

Well, I was probably going to trade out the dread necromancer/paladin ones out and keep the bone knight stacked on favored soul. As it is, if I take out the dread necromancer or bone knight and rebuild, it's probably not an issue since it'd just be just the paladin side, which is where most turn undead ACFs are from anyway.


I am actually leaning more towards trimming out the bone knight, ironically, as its the features from level 1-2 that are causing trouble, and levels 3+ is where it starts feeling interesting. I can still do a necromancer build without it, even if it was my initial inspiration.

[Anastasia]

Unfortunately, breastplates are 25% ASF so twilight alone won't cut it. Plan was twilight for -10%, Thistledown Padding for -5%, and Spellsword for -10%. Normally I would use mithral for -10%, but obviously, can't, because bone. Alternatively I could have used feycraft/githcraft for -5% each...but I am neither fey nor githyanki. I suppose I could have had a fey bone knight and a githyanki bone knight help me...but that seems like it's really stretching it.

So as of now I am deciding between replacing dread necromancer or the bone knight. Or Battle Caster feat, but I'm feeling feat-starved too right now.

If you can free up another feat (woof), Battle Caster probably makes the most sense. But yeah, you're going to be feat starved as hell.

I knew it was a dungeon, but again, slaad. Plus from memory of Ithea's adventures, the only times a mount didn't seem like it would have worked was the corridor with the rolling boulder of doom/sea of hot liquid gold.

Pretty much. Up to you on that one, really.

Well, I was probably going to trade out the dread necromancer/paladin ones out and keep the bone knight stacked on favored soul. As it is, if I take out the dread necromancer or bone knight and rebuild, it's probably not an issue since it'd just be just the paladin side, which is where most turn undead ACFs are from anyway.


I am actually leaning more towards trimming out the bone knight, ironically, as its the features from level 1-2 that are causing trouble, and levels 3+ is where it starts feeling interesting. I can still do a necromancer build without it, even if it was my initial inspiration.

Okay, let me know when you finalize and we'll work something out for ACFing.

[Anastasia]

Okay, I'd like charsheets done by the end of this weekend if at all possible. Ideally we'll begin next week.

[Yuthirin]

Current plan is to trade away Ranger casting for Champion of the Wilds (CC) and animal companion for I dunno yet. Might trade it for Urban Companion and trade my Sorcerer familiar for Metamagic Specialist (PHB2) Thoughts?

[Anastasia]

Current plan is to trade away Ranger casting for Champion of the Wilds (CC) and animal companion for I dunno yet. Might trade it for Urban Companion and trade my Sorcerer familiar for Metamagic Specialist (PHB2) Thoughts?

Why Ranger? Just curious.

Metamagic specialist is solid if you have metamagic to use it with. Companions are a weak point of mine, so whatever works.

[Yuthirin]

Ranged touch/attack spells. Sorcerer. Blaster. Kablammo.

[Anastasia]

Ranged touch/attack spells. Sorcerer. Blaster. Kablammo.

Okay, I follow that, but why ranger?

[Yuthirin]

Wanted to get ranged bonuses and stay viable if I run out of spells. Do you think Fighter would be better?

[Anastasia]

Depends if you're using the rest of ranger well or not.

[Merc]

I noticed that Yuth's character is taking Nightmare Spinner on the ranger side, despite it advancing arcane spellcasting.

Dune, are you doing something where someone can take levels of things in different sides to avoid lost spellcasting levels or something? I know Corwin did so with Aaeru back in B2, but I figured that was one of the things that went away when you simplified gestalt houserules to just take things from a certain side (figured you'd have to take classes on same sides).

I do suppose Yuth could just be ignoring the spellcasting, but would be useful to know either way.

[Yuthirin]

First level does not advance spellcasting.