DM Nagging: It's pretty much my job

[Anastasia]

Too late.

---

Would you re-read over Singer of the Celestial Choir and let me know if you still want it to have 4/5ths casting?

I'm of the opinion that there's no real need to limit the spell casting progression on it since it is 1) an epic PrC to begin with and 2) it's pretty limited in its scope to begin with and 3) it has hefty requirements anyway.

That's at least my thought on it.

Elaborate on your three points a bit, would you?

[Nephrite]

Okay.

Let's look at other epic PrCs. Dragonheart Shapeshifter is a good example. It's got a high button to begin with and enhances an aspect of Druid while still offering full casting progression on a base class that's already pretty strong.

Cosmic Descryer, while not having full casting progression, amplifies summons in an outrageous way so that it more or less ends up being a net 0 loss. I don't think Singer quite does the same.

In the above examples, you have to qualify to even get to those PrCs. An epic prestige class means you have to meet the skill and feat and ability requirements while ALSO being high enough to do so.

The actual required skills for SotCC are narrow enough that I really don't think anyone but beards are even going to go into it, and based on that, bad bard spell progression compared to other classes anyway (there's a reason you could even consider spell-less bard at all) it just doesn't make sense to limit the casting progression on top of everything else.

[Corwin]

Two questions.

First!
23:24 <•Seira> Can I remake Lightning's Rise as fire?
23:25 <•Seira> It'd even work the same way, since water makes sense thematically

And secondly, say I wanted to make a spell that gave a lot of temp hp and only that. Dragonshape (lvl9) turns you into a dragon and gives you 150 temp hp for the duration. Opal Fury gives you a cap of 200 temp hp on top of other stuff, though at our CLs I estimate you'd get closer to 100. The pure temp hp spells are very low level, like False Life and Aid.

How would a better spell look?

[Nephrite]

Also, you mentioned Moore needed to talk to Cresiel.

[Anastasia]

Tonight's work has been on the Latha rebuild, which needed mechanics so I wanted to get that done first. That should be done sometime tomorrow.

[Ebiris]

Alicia reaches level 34
Duskblade 17//Sorcerer 34
+1 bab, +20 hp
Duskblade 17 has no class features, reaches 22nd level duskblade casting with levels from prestige classes added, so +1 6th level slot (doubled from her ring of wizardry) and 1 6th level spell known. As said last level the epic duskblade progression only refers to the homebrew spells as available for epic duskblades but Donald has a bunch more than that. Cribbing from Donald's shet I'll take swift etherealness.
Sorcerer 34 has no class features, reaches 34th level sorcerer casting so +1 13th level spell per day, and 1 14th level spell known. She'll take radiant storm.
Skills go up as normal, +1 to everything except bluff.
+1 to spell resistance. +1 to silver fire DC.

--

Avatar gets pretty much the same.

--

Marie reaches level 34
Outsider 34//Master of Missiles 3
+1 bab, +19 hp
Does outsider 34 give her anything? Let me know if it does!
Master of missiles 3 gives magic missile mastery and missile might. That's one more missile per casting and +1 CL for magic missile.
Sorcerer casting goes up to level 32 so +1 13th level spell per day, +1 13 level spell known. She takes wall of superb dispelling.
All skills go up +1.
+1 to spell resistance. +1 to gaze DC.

[Anastasia]

Latha's rebuilt. More on this later, just a heads up. Spells aren't quite done yet, she's getting a few new ones but not this moment.

[Anastasia]

Okay.

Let's look at other epic PrCs. Dragonheart Shapeshifter is a good example. It's got a high button to begin with and enhances an aspect of Druid while still offering full casting progression on a base class that's already pretty strong.

Cosmic Descryer, while not having full casting progression, amplifies summons in an outrageous way so that it more or less ends up being a net 0 loss. I don't think Singer quite does the same.

In the above examples, you have to qualify to even get to those PrCs. An epic prestige class means you have to meet the skill and feat and ability requirements while ALSO being high enough to do so.

The actual required skills for SotCC are narrow enough that I really don't think anyone but beards are even going to go into it, and based on that, bad bard spell progression compared to other classes anyway (there's a reason you could even consider spell-less bard at all) it just doesn't make sense to limit the casting progression on top of everything else.

Quick check before the rest: Have we had this conversation before? This feels familiar.

[Anastasia]

Two questions.

First!
23:24 <•Seira> Can I remake Lightning's Rise as fire?
23:25 <•Seira> It'd even work the same way, since water makes sense thematically

I don't really have an objection to it. I was hoping the spell would see use to see if it's balanced, anyway. Go ahead and write up a variant.

And secondly, say I wanted to make a spell that gave a lot of temp hp and only that. Dragonshape (lvl9) turns you into a dragon and gives you 150 temp hp for the duration. Opal Fury gives you a cap of 200 temp hp on top of other stuff, though at our CLs I estimate you'd get closer to 100. The pure temp hp spells are very low level, like False Life and Aid.

How would a better spell look?

Something like Opal Fury or Dragonshape's scaling. They're not a bad guideline to work with, most of the temp HP spells are either specialized or have a drawback (hi polymorph subschool). I try and avoid temp HP spells that last too long or get too high. Bear that in mind as you work and keep the numbers sane.

[Anastasia]

Also, you mentioned Moore needed to talk to Cresiel.

It's a node thing, we'll resolve it first thing on resuming.

[Nephrite]

Quick check before the rest: Have we had this conversation before? This feels familiar.
[/quote]

You're not crazy, we did back in November and I just forgot. http://www.soulriders.net/forum/index.php/topic,104100.msg1131944/topicseen.html#msg1131944

I don't think I pressed on that particular subject but you seemed to have made up your mind on it back then anyway.

[Anastasia]

Quick check before the rest: Have we had this conversation before? This feels familiar.

You're not crazy, we did back in November and I just forgot. http://www.soulriders.net/forum/index.php/topic,104100.msg1131944/topicseen.html#msg1131944

I don't think I pressed on that particular subject but you seemed to have made up your mind on it back then anyway.
[/quote]

Pretty much.  I could maybe be argued to making it 9/10, but I doubt I'd go 10/10. The discussion on balancing below the post is pretty spot on, and 3.5 balancing is really tricky on account of it.

[Anastasia]

Dawn's Vigor
Necromancy
Level: Clr 11
Components: V, S, DF
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 1 round/level

You imbue yourself with the promise of a new dawn, all the hopes for energy and vigor. This grants you 10 temporary hit points per caster level (maximum 250 hit points).

Something like that offhand, I suppose. Very quick and dirty.

[Nephrite]

Well, if you decide to change it to that (which I'd be fine with, obviously) let me know. I think in that case having the first level blank makes sense.

[Nephrite]

Moore reaches level 34.

Singer of the Celestial Choir 4 and Favored Soul 4.

BAB goes up by +1 to 26.


4 on a d8 for... well, this is one of those fun times where I'm looking back at my notes on Moore's HP and I can't figure out for the life of me how I got the the current number I'm at. I think I flubbed a number somewhere. His HP should be 491 with the Tear. I have no idea where I got an extra 7 HP for him from at all... His HP should be 491, so that's the number we're working with.

Anyway... 4 on a d8, +7 Con, +4 more (2x Toughness, 1x Epic Toughness) = 15, for a total of 516. Good lord, that shouldn't have been that complicated...

Skills all go up by one.

I never apparently changed Melodic Casting out on my sheet, so I am officially doing that now and replacing it with Negotiator.


Singer 4 gives me a bonus feat and level 33 bard casting, +1 10 and +1 11th.

10th: Superior Shadow Evocation
11th: Lliira's Joy. Note to self: Come up with better bard spells, as the other ones here are not great.

It also gives a bonus feat. I suppose it's time to finally gain Inspire Excellence.

Favored Soul casting rises to 22, which gives me 1 extra level 10 spell known.

10th: Let me get back to you on this.