Spell research and discussion.

[Anastasia]

Here we go.

http://www.soulriders.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=100181

That topic is for the finished product, this is for the various spell discussions.

First up us Cor's first entry, Twenty Questions:


Twenty Questions
Enchantment(Charm) [Language-Dependant, Mind-Affecting]
Level: Sor/Wiz 2
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action.
Range: Close (25 ft + 5 ft/2 levels.)
Target: One humanoid creature
Duration: Concentration, up to one minute/level.
Saving Throw: Will partial; see text
Spell Resistance: Yes.

Your eyes lock with your target's, flashing with a hidden light only it can see. You stare, your gaze hypnotic, and its mental barriers come crashing down in response, tongue spilling forth even the darkest of secrets.

You enchant the target creature, compelling them to answer questions as you dictate. To do so, you must succeed with a ranged touch attack. The target may elect to make a will save if the attack is successful; see below.

Once the enchantment is in place, you may ask the target up to one question per caster level. The question will be answered to the best of its ability and knowledge. If the aforementioned will save was passed, the target is only compelled to answer yes or no questions.

A diplomacy check is needed if you wish for your target to perceive the questions in the most favorable way, dismissing their importance shortly afterwards. If the target is directly threatened by the caster or his allies, he gains a +5 bonus on his will save.

[Anastasia]

Eb's reply, via the magic of QUOTE AND PASTE:

Twenty Questions seems overpowered to me. On one hand, it fills a gap between Hypnotism (level 1) and Suggestion (level 3), so reason suggests it fits at level 2, right?

Except that even if the target passes their will save, they're still compelled to answer your questions, just in a more limited fashion. That seems pretty brutal. Adding in the touch attack as a mitigating factor doesn't feel right (a quick look over the spell filter on the SRD shows not a single enchantment spell that resolves as a ranged touch attack) and I can see this spell being used a lot against restrained targets for whom rolling to hit isn't an issue.

Also, how does this modify the target's behaviour? If we're fighting Irenes and he gets hit with this spell in round one, is he going to honestly answer every question yelled at him even while he's fireballing us to death and dodging lightning bolts? It just feels very weird.

[Anastasia]

My thoughts?

Mmm. I'm still not entirely sold on the entire ranged touch part. I see what you're trying to do with it, but on thinking and reading about it, most touch attacks deilver a palpable effect or attack. Say a curse, draining, fiery pain, whatever. Charms and enchantments usually don't bother.

About balance? I was having difficulty with the balance here since there are relatively few spells that have anything like this affect at these levels. It's an undeveloped part of the system, so with little support, I'm looking for info on this. So with what Eb said, hm.

Lemme ask you this a few questions on reading that and thinking it over.

How would you play the spell if cast in combat, say? How do you imagine it working out?

If I told you to change the ranged attack attribute, which I'm considering, how would you alter the spell to compensate?

If I wanted to make the will save purely pass/fail resist the spell entirely(As in, say, charm person), how would that affect the spell in your mind? Would you want to try revising other portions of it?

Eb stirred up some of what I think I was reaching for. The spell's good, but it's also a bit mix/maxed out. The ranged touch still makes me blink, for example, and I'm not sure the yes/no part on the will save is executed well. I like the concept, but what he said supported some of my doubts.

[Corwin]

Dune, I want a spell to replace Str with Int (well, technically, with the relevant casting ability, since bards or whatever could also potentially want it) for melee weapons for to hit/damage purposes. Interested in duration and spell level; basically, how you would price it.

[Anastasia]

EDIT: Nevermind, going to say something different in the next post after some review.

[Corwin]

After talking to you I realized you thought the transformation spell was the inspiration. It wasn't, really, but glancing at nightstalker's transformation I guess I'd be interested in a spell that gave weapon finesse for x rounds/level, if one were available.

[Anastasia]

After talking to you I realized you thought the transformation spell was the inspiration. It wasn't, really, but glancing at nightstalker's transformation I guess I'd be interested in a spell that gave weapon finesse for x rounds/level, if one were available.

Isn't there a spell that gives you a fighter bonus feat in the spell compendium? I distinctly recall that being mentioned; do you remember what spell it is? That's rather relevant here.

As for the first request? 3rd-4th pending on something. I have a few reservations about this, but it's partly just because it fits really well to you. Kinda like wraithestrike all over again. I'd want to see a writeup of the spell before I commit to anything.

[Corwin]

Heroics, page 113, the plot requirement is so stupid.... (lvl2 sorc/wiz spell, casting time: standard action, duration: 10min/level)

[Anastasia]

Heroics, page 113, the plot requirement is so stupid.... (lvl2 sorc/wiz spell, casting time: standard action, duration: 10min/level)

Mmm.

Okay, that makes sense. The material component simply doesn't work in this game due to the relative power level involved and I have some reservations about the spell in any event. It seems like a very custom spell with a retarded component and aim; being able to slap on feats at will makes me put my head through the table. It's trying to do something very nice by tacking on a difficult to impossible material component.

It does work as a fine baseline here, however.

A variant targeted on one particular feat would be fine by that.  Second level works for it tentatively.The material component should be of some value, at least, since it's clearly meant to make it not easy to spam.

[Corwin]

Or one buys a dagger, cashes in on a favor from Salman/elves and asks for their best fighter to use it to slay an evil rat, then give me the dagger back. Stupid~

[Anastasia]

Or one buys a dagger, cashes in on a favor from Salman/elves and asks for their best fighter to use it to slay an evil rat, then give me the dagger back. Stupid~

Basically. Anyhow, while I do have some reservations, you can try and make a spell like that. I'll make a ruling when I see a full spell to rule on and work from there.

[Corwin]

I'd actually prefer to receive the limitations on any such spells first, and have you clearly define them. I'll just add the flavor later, and it'll fit, too.

[Corwin]

So, after talking to you some more, I decided to summarize what we went over.

1) The spell gives +spellcasting ability modifier to both attack and damage. The weapon in question must one one that can be used with weapon finesse. You could use two weapons while under the spell, too, as long as each qualifies under the above rule. The spell is of the second level. The duration on it is either x rounds, where x is the Caster Level, with the activation being a standard action, or one round, with the activation being a swift action.

Would this be an accurate summary, Dune?

I was also interested in another possibility, which is detailed below:

2) A spell that gives weapon finesse to the caster. It will have a non-trivial material component (in value/gp) and be of second level. Activation time, standard action.

I'd propose a potion of Cat's Grace as a component, which should satisfy your desires that this is not spammed, but in turn ask that the duration is extended the way Heroics is, for 10min/level.

Thoughts? Discussion? Approval? Alternate versions?

[Anastasia]

So, after talking to you some more, I decided to summarize what we went over.

1) The spell gives +spellcasting ability modifier to both attack and damage. The weapon in question must one one that can be used with weapon finesse. You could use two weapons while under the spell, too, as long as each qualifies under the above rule. The spell is of the second level. The duration on it is either x rounds, where x is the Caster Level, with the activation being a standard action, or one round, with the activation being a swift action.

Would this be an accurate summary, Dune?

That's fine. I prefer the swift action version, personally.

I was also interested in another possibility, which is detailed below:

2) A spell that gives weapon finesse to the caster. It will have a non-trivial material component (in value/gp) and be of second level. Activation time, standard action.

I'd propose a potion of Cat's Grace as a component, which should satisfy your desires that this is not spammed, but in turn ask that the duration is extended the way Heroics is, for 10min/level.

Thoughts? Discussion? Approval? Alternate versions?

Basically a somewhat less retarded Heroism?

[Corwin]

I suppose, on both. Anyway, want me to write it up with flowery desc, or to debate the spells some more?