Question on reach changing

[Dracos]

So I fill a weird place generally as far as reach rules go, in that I have naturally malleable reach and spells/enchantments can make it more so.   

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/movementPositionAndDistance.htm

I use a reach weapon, so my basic reach is 10 foot, threatening the squares one square away from me.  I normally occupy a five foot square.  Reasonable enough.

"When he rages, his size category increases
to Large. (Although his size category increases by one
step, the goliath barbarian's height only increases by a
foot or so and his mass only increases by about 30–40%, so
his equipment still fi ts normally.) This change increases
the barbarian's space and reach to 10 feet and applies a
–1 penalty on attack rolls and to AC"

But...when I rage(ex), I become actually large, my reach goes to 20 feet according to the rules (At least I don't think this is a static effect from mighty build).  Mmm, it looks like at that point, I threaten both 15 and 20 feet away, but not 5 or 10.  Enough thankfully for a 5 foot step back being enough room to stab again.  Additionally while raging, I think I outreach large characters (because I'm wielding a reach weapon and they are not), but while not raging my reach is equal to theirs.  Equally, I also take up a 10 foot space?  What does that mean?  Do I take up 4 5 foot spaces?    Hmm, so I only go up to 9 feet or so when raging.

If enlarged this moves to threatening 20, 25, and 30, but not 5, 10, or 15.  Do huge characters get a larger than five foot step?   I'd hope they would since they're many times larger (A raging enlarged kamvakua would be about 18 feet tall, actually having to seriously worry about the roof height it seems)

This came on my mind yesterday as I wasn't actually sure if some of the time I had enough room to legitimately do certain things (Such as charge while raging, since raging might have actually moved me to being able to reach him without moving).  Dune waved over it (yay), but I like having a solid understanding of what I can and can't do :).  Anyhow, I dunno if my ponderings are correct, but tossing them out.

[Carthrat]

Yes, you would take up 4 spaces. All large creatures occupy the same area.

If we assume that growing up gives you natural reach then I believe 5-15 feet is what you threaten (with a null zone within 0-5 feet.) This part is actually a bit confusing, in retrospect.

Huge characters don't get more than a 5ft step, as gravity hates them.

Remember that you don't get more than one movement-based AoO per foe per round, so someone banzai charging past your pike is only going to suffer one, regardless of how many squares you threaten. (but you can trip them and that would halt their movement. >_>)

[Merc]

Edit: Deleting to redo. I hadn't caught onto something, so need to redraw square pictures

[Merc]

Also, on movement/speed/5-ft step. No, this does not change for a size increase. Your speed would remain 50ft, and you can only take a 5ft step without provoking AoOs

[Dracos]

I think the first two pictures are correct.  The third one I 'Think' that being huge I have one more space of white there, and thus the red is one space further out (Otherwise I would not be able to hit 30 feet away, which reach says I can as its double 15).

In other words, from center the reach is: 2 (Normal), 4 (large), 6 (huge), 8 (No PC is ever that big), with blindspot of 1, 2, 3, 4 respectively .  The center when large is kind of vague, but for normal and huge it's very clearly the center of the area.

Rat: Good to know.  It'd be more of an issue if I didn't have travel domain. :)

Does the amount of space I need for a charge change?  is it 10 feet from center?  10 feet from edge?  10 feet distance for one of my threatened spaces to have moved?

Dune, does this kind of match your view on things?

[Dracos]

Also, what happens with size changes when enemies are already close?   Someone say is 5 feet away from Kamvakua and he suddenly is occupying that space.

[Merc]

Okay, take two, now that I made some corrections. I was using a normal-sized reach weapon, and didn't enlarge it with enlarge person spell. Because it's a lot of squares, I just used a corner. Just wrap it around for other directions. =p

Normal Happy Kammy

Space: Kammy occupies 5ft of space.
Reach: Because he has a large weapon, the large weapon has 15ft reach (10ft extra reach it does not threaten + 5ft reach of normal size), but does not threaten 10ft reach (normal reach of large creature).

Raging & Living Large Kammy

Space: Kammy occupies 10ft of space.
Reach: Continues being a large weapon, wth 20ft reach now though (10ft extra reach from being large + 10ft reach of large size), but does not threaten 10ft. Notably, in the diagonal direction, the second diagonal square is both considered 10ft and 15ft. The threaten of 15ft overrides the 'does not threaten' of 10ft.

Hit Me with an Enlarge Person while I'm Raging Kammy

Space: Kammy occupies 15ft of space.
Reach: Weapon becomes a huge weapon, with 30ft reach, but does not threaten closest 15ft.

[Merc]

On growing size, if there's a direction to grow without issue (nobody there, or stuff three sizes smaller than new size), you always grow in that direction.

If not, I'd say something similar to what's outlined for enlarge person (it says you make a strength check to burst out of a smaller space), except in the case of an opponent and not an inanimate object, you'd treat the result of the strength check as a bull rush check result.

[Dracos]

Your first take on normal happy Kammy was correct AFAIK.  Weapon size does not grant added reach in 3.5.  It did in 3.0, but does not matter in 3.5.

" Glaives, guisarmes, lances, longspears, ranseurs, spiked chains, and whips are reach weapons. A reach weapon is a melee weapon that allows its wielder to strike at targets that aren't adjacent to him or her. Most reach weapons double the wielder's natural reach, meaning that a typical Small or Medium wielder of such a weapon can attack a creature 10 feet away, but not a creature in an adjacent square. A typical Large character wielding a reach weapon of the appropriate size can attack a creature 15 or 20 feet away, but not adjacent creatures or creatures up to 10 feet away.

Note: Small and Medium creatures wielding reach weapons threaten all squares 10 feet (2 squares) away, even diagonally. (This is an exception to the rule that 2 squares of diagonal distance is measured as 15 feet.) "

Also it appears it is a box and not a circle according to that note.  Diagonal reach actually ends up being gigantic then it seems.

[Merc]

My understanding of reach weapons by size: The reason it doubles natural reach is because it has a shaft of length equal to the creature it was designed for, which is the 'dead space'. So a medium weapon would have a shaft of 5ft, a large weapon would have one of 10ft, a huge one would have one of 15ft.

A medium character normally has 5ft reach, but with a medium weapon, his reach becomes 10ft (double his normal). With a large weapon, it'd become 15ft (5ft reach +10ft shaft), etc.

Also, I think that the reach rule of diagonal reach is mostly for small/medium creatures to avoid complications, and because it's not particularly game breaking for that size. When you start getting into larger sizes, I think the diagonal rule probably does matter, though that's a matter for Dune ot decide.

[Merc]

And just for extra added complication, here's Kammy enlarged -but- not raging:


You'd have large space/reach, but with a huge reach weapon.

Seriously, you may either want to just not deal with enlarge person spell or have it permanencied...

[Dracos]

Merc: That's a fair interpretation, but I'm pretty sure it's not core.  They used to do that in 3.0, and they actually went away from it because it overcomplicated it.  I'm generally a fan of core specifically from the example you just gave, where you can get 3-4-5 different range classifications for a size (Normal, Reach with normal, Reach with small, Reach with oversized), versus 2 (Normal and Reach).

[Merc]

Hrm, so what would core do with a large reach weapon on a normal sized character anyhow? Just treat it as a normal sized reach weapon (10ft reach with 5ft dead zone) with extra damage and double weight/cost?

[Dracos]

Yes.  Precisely.  Usually, it doesn't come up much because it also gives minuses and feats.

Specifically: You generally cannot wield a larger one than you are and you have little incentive to wield a smaller one.  To wield a larger one, you have to spend a feat in most cases.  Since this is such a rare occurance, they moved toward simplified rules versus the 3.0 era 'size of weapon matters most' (Where a ten foot spear was always a ten foot spear).

[Dracos]

Hey Dune: ye never chimed in here.

While merc and I had the same view for the larger sizes, we differed on the normal reach.  Is it 10 (mine or is it 15(mercs) by your view?

15 introduces a very strange setup where I do outreach large opponents and reach opponents, but have a sizable do not threat range by default.  I rage commonly, so this isn't too big a deal, but just asking for when I don't.