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Started by Dracos, November 23, 2009, 05:02:20 PM

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Anastasia

Noted, will post tonight or tomorrow sometime.
<Afina> Imagine a tiny pixie boot stamping on a devil's face.
<Afina> Forever.

<Yuthirin> Afina, giant parasitic rainbow space whale.
<IronDragoon> I mean, why not?

Anastasia

On the return, the Lady of the Green Kirtle takes Nikkolai aside. In her hands is a pale yellow book, bound in straps of slow moving, almost gooey black leather.  With an expressionless face, "In this book lies several secrets of magic, both what you can read and what sorcery can be gained from devout study." Her knuckles rap against the cover, "If you are worthy of mastering magic, you will find more than meets the eye with enough study. Know that only when the sun is gone and the night sky is visible can you learn the secrets of the Shade Libram, apprentice."

Shade Libram

This spellbook contains the following magics:

Ghost Sound: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/ghostSound.htm
Cause Fear: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/causeFear.htm
Summon Swarm: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/summonSwarm.htm
False Life: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/falseLife.htm
Ghoul Touch: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/ghoulTouch.htm
Scare: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/scare.htm
Vampiric Touch: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/vampiricTouch.htm
Animate Dead: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/animateDead.htm
Bestow Curse: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/bestowCurse.htm
Enervation: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/enervation.htm
Contagion: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/contagion.htm

Yet the pages are mostly blank, even with these spells. Sometimes Nikkolai can think he can see words, words of dreadful, impossible arcane potency.  There are two things he can do with this book:

1. Study it. Each night Nikkolai spends intently pouring over the magic within, he is allowed a knowledge(arcana) check.  It is possible to unlock greater secrets, if one is persistent and insightful.

2. Use the book. Once per day by intoning from the pages, any spell written within may be used as a spell-like ability. The caster level of the spell-like ability is equal to the hit dice of the intoner, with any relevant save DCs equal to 10+spell level+charisma modifier. Intoning from the Shade Libram is a full round action that provokes attacks of opportunity.  If the Shade Libram is used in this manner, it cannot be studied productively that night.
<Afina> Imagine a tiny pixie boot stamping on a devil's face.
<Afina> Forever.

<Yuthirin> Afina, giant parasitic rainbow space whale.
<IronDragoon> I mean, why not?

Dracos

For reference on adjustment of Fearsome Fury ability:
<Kotono> Anyway I have no problem with the idea of the ability, but throwing DC 30-40 stuff at a level 12 campaign simply doesn't work on any realistic balance sense. It may as well be auto effect with those numbers, since nothing short of a save twink situation has any chance to pass 'cept on a 20. I'd like to change it to that forumla there, which scales and about hits the normal range for saves there
<Kotono> instead.
<Kotono> Anyway BRB since you don't seem to be immediately around, need to run up to the bathroom and stuff.
<Dracos> yarr
<Kotono> Hi.
<Dracos> #1 :)
<Dracos> anyhow hmm.
<Kotono> Anyway, I really don't have a problem with teh ability. It's that using skill checks to set save DCs doesn't balance. Skill check results outstrip how saves grow, so.
<Dracos> It is true.  Though at the same time what makes it fairly hard to beat is I've stuck a large chunk of Kam's build into playing toward it, which the suggestion of 10+1/2 level+cha kind of erases, it's also a nerf that many types simply ignore outright.  Still, I totally agree with the basic that it's DC is patently unfair where it is.
* Kotono nods.
<Kotono> I'd rather just have it at a possible but good range that auto scales. The DC of it right now with the above would be...19, which is a bit too low, I think. Say the ability comes with a bonus with it, +2 or +4 or whatever.
<Dracos> at the least I'd want it to be 1/2 hit dice, because going from DC 36 to DC 15 is pretty much moving it from always succeed into never succeed at all.   DC 10+5+3=18 is kinda better, but is still basically zero threat half of our party.
<Kotono> You're level 12, right? That's 10+6+3.
* Dracos is one level/hit die below party.  Goliath.
<Kotono> Oh right, level adjustment. Okay.
<Kotono> 18+4 is 22, which is marginally better and about where I put 'average' DCs for this level. Something in that ballpark, maybe? Anyway, feel free to chew it ovre and if you have any suggestions I'm all ears
<Kotono> .
<Dracos> level would be good right now (24) being easy for high will save, super hard for low and a bit hard for average, but it'd scale poorly in the same which is why its usually half.  I think your latter idea is best.  Maybe just for ease say that the normal size bonus stuff applies to it.  hmm, using us as a ballpark: 13, 9, 17,14, 10.  Yeah, pretty much anywhere in the 22-24 range would fit sensibly.  I'd say
<Dracos>  24 which would make it about a 75 percent success rate for our lowest and a 35 percent rate for our highest.  But it's also a fairly minor nerf and about equal to the amount of positive/upgrades that we tend to toss out in a fight.  THoughts back?
<Kotono> That's fine.
<Dracos> That ends up practically sitting at 16+1/2 level+Cha (16+5+3) = 24.  Seem reasonable in that adjustment range as well?  It does have the danger that if I get a massive cha boost, it could get too high, but from my end, I'm fine with it being readjusted if it ever really starts seeming like it falls outside of 25-75 range of odds.
* Kotono nods.
<Kotono> Sure.
* Dracos will at some point pump his cha more, but suspects around that tier, enemies will also be pumping their saves too.
<Kotono> Works for me.
Well, Goodbye.

Anastasia

<Afina> Imagine a tiny pixie boot stamping on a devil's face.
<Afina> Forever.

<Yuthirin> Afina, giant parasitic rainbow space whale.
<IronDragoon> I mean, why not?

Sierra

Sword of Subtlety is ruined (had 15hp), Sword of Desperate Measures is damaged (25hp - 17 = 8hp). The armor should be safe, if it matters (it's borrowed anyway). Does it get the amulet? That is surely not having more than 17hp, so if it's affected, it's gone too.

Anastasia

Yeah, I'm assuming it's metal. If you want to logdive later to confirm that from old logs, feel free. IF it's not after all it's off the hook.
<Afina> Imagine a tiny pixie boot stamping on a devil's face.
<Afina> Forever.

<Yuthirin> Afina, giant parasitic rainbow space whale.
<IronDragoon> I mean, why not?

VySaika

Amulet of Tears= "adorning a glossy silver chain, a spiral of pearl teardrops circles a colorless crystal sphere" as MIC page 70. Only part that's metal is the chain, and I'd argue the chains shouldn't be where the magic is. Any chance this could mean the amulet's safe?
All About Monks
<Marisa> They're OP as fuck
<Marisa> They definitely don't blow in 3.5
<Marisa> after a certain level they basically just attack repeatedly until it dies
<Marisa> they're immune to a bunch of high level effects
<Marisa> just by being monks

Anastasia

That assumes I used the same design. At this point it requires a log check. I'll do that after session or tomorrow.
<Afina> Imagine a tiny pixie boot stamping on a devil's face.
<Afina> Forever.

<Yuthirin> Afina, giant parasitic rainbow space whale.
<IronDragoon> I mean, why not?

Anastasia

and an amulet shaped like a blue teardrop.

Okay, amulet's okay then.
<Afina> Imagine a tiny pixie boot stamping on a devil's face.
<Afina> Forever.

<Yuthirin> Afina, giant parasitic rainbow space whale.
<IronDragoon> I mean, why not?

Zephyrus

Firstly, I would like to apologize to both Drac and Cid for being a jackass tonight. It seems that lately, that's been happening more and more often. Some of it stems from slight friction between other players and myself, and some of it stems from a growing disinterest in the game in general.

I enjoy playing. I really do. But my thing is, I enjoy the experience, the RP more than I do the number crunching. To be perfectly honest, if I could play this game without rolling a single die, I'd be happy. I also do not have a decent grasp of tactics. Both of these things pretty much ensure that I'm not going to be any great mover and shaker in DnD nor will I ever be a master or intimately familiar with the game mechanics like the rest of you. I also seem to have trouble being a team player, even though this is something that I've tried consistently to beat into my head with apparently failed results.

It seems that most of the group's problems stem from me being unable to play in a manner that is acceptable and courteous to other players. I would like to apologize for that, most sincerely and deeply. I like playing with all of you. It just seems like it's hard for me to remember that when I'm actually playing Nik.

I had considered permanently withdrawing from the game for several reasons, including the factors mentioned above. But after thinking on it, I asked Dune if it would be acceptable if I could take a break from Nik for a month or so. I'm starting a new job next week that requires me to be up and about three hours after game time finishes. I'm not sure if I can do it like Cid does.

I would like to ask your opinion on the matter. Would it be easier if Nik were to simply remain as a permanent fixture in the Lich's castle and I drop out? Or would you be willing to let me take a breather, as it were, and see if I can't try to teach myself how to be a better team member.

Carthrat

#1135
I've enjoyed playing with you for the most part, although I guess I'd agree you could stand to think before you act a bit more. Still. D&D really does want people who can get involved with the mechanics. I just don't think it works well unless all players are roughly around the same area, and to be blunt, we're not. Maybe freeform is more your style. I play both and get different things out of them, do experiment.

However, to be honest I'd been considering withdrawing from the game myself once the current arc is over for various reasons. This only makes that more likely. I totally get not wanting to play due to weird time constraints, for which Cid is a true hero.

As for you, though, I think a few things could mix up your enjoyment significantly.

Firstly, really do try to think while playing. And read the OOC chat. <_<

Second, revise your spell selection thoroughly. It's not broad and doesn't give you many tricks. You've long since seen how Dune runs the game; there are many niche spells you have that just aren't too useful, and I think you could do something about that. I know you have the fire niche but the straight-up truth is that it's not exceptionally effective, at least not without some serious hax. And you will still need alternatives. I do think you get fucked by enemy defenses more than any other member of the party though. It can't be fun to go up against waves of enemies with SR and high resistances. The way it works, fighter dudes still tend to beat harsh ACs, but spellcasters just never have their actions work, which I know to be enormously frustrating.

Third, taking a breather's probably fine, although I honestly thing a new game might suit you better. I don't think you need to quit over interpersonal issues in the slightest, although a break might be great. But unless you minmax your character to the degree that others have, you'll always be on the back foot, which can lead to the game being unfun. To be entirely blunt I think the current party lineup is stupidly hard to generate encounters for that are fun for everyone, and from the player side the only way to cure that is for people to modify their characters a bit.
[19:14] <Annerose> Aww, mouth not outpacing brain after all?
[19:14] <Candide> My brain caught up

Sierra

Quote from: Carthrat on November 24, 2010, 05:06:02 AM
I've enjoyed playing with you for the most part, although I guess I'd agree you could stand to think before you act a bit more.

Won't have time to respond to anything in detail until Friday, so this'll do for now. Irritation at the occasional headdesk-inducing stunt shouldn't be taken as personal dislike.

Merc

Ew... If you have to wake up 3 hours after game ends, I'd say to go ahead and drop (Cid's kinda nuts for doing it himself), particularly with a new job on the horizon when you want to impress your boss and be kept on board. If you have time to rejoin later (or think you can do what Cid is doing), figure out if you really want to do so as Nikki or a new character.

Dipping into an "I told you so", I did warn you a number of times that casters in general are a fair bit more complex and have more math behind 'em. To be fair, I made this worse by suggesting multiclassing when you were doing chargen. In spite of knowing you were already a bit over your head, I stupidly made the math stuff more complicated for you. You got a good handle on it since then at least, but I know that's part of what's made Nikki a struggle, so sorry about that.

The main problem though is that you prefer feeling like your character is actively doing stuff vs "behind-the-scenes" stuff, so you don't enjoy having to use up your turn to buff team or to do tactics/battlefield control casting, and even modified your spell lists to focus on a fire theme as a result.

From the sounds of it, that's not really working out for you, with it causing you problems when attacking isn't the right option or when you encounter stuff that's good at countering your theme. If you stick it out with Nikki, you're just going to either open up to those options again, or look at at least going beyond your fire/attack theme.

Most importantly, remember that rolling a new character is always an option, and you don't have to come back to Nikki after a break. Take it a step further and try something entirely different.
<Cidward> God willing, we'll all meet in Buttquest 2: The Quest for More Butts.

Dracos

Quote from: El Cideon on November 24, 2010, 07:06:38 AM
Quote from: Carthrat on November 24, 2010, 05:06:02 AM
I've enjoyed playing with you for the most part, although I guess I'd agree you could stand to think before you act a bit more.

Won't have time to respond to anything in detail until Friday, so this'll do for now. Irritation at the occasional headdesk-inducing stunt shouldn't be taken as personal dislike.

I feel like shit, so coherency isn't high, but yeah this sentiment.  Getting annoyed when blasted in the game doesn't mean I think 'hey, get out of here'.
Well, Goodbye.

Zephyrus

I appreciate the input. I suppose I worry too much about being an asshole and I try not to act like one. It just seems like lately, most of the decisions I've been making haven't been thought out or they don't take into consideration other players.

Will respond later in greater detail, once I come to a decision.