Crystal Tokyo Fanon/Canon discussion

[thepanda]

Well, I have half an outline for a story that explains that neatly as "the universe is completely falling apart". Unfortunately, it's mostly the last half of the outline.

At least four different timelines.

!) Present time line. Usagi and co die at the center of the galaxy and are reborn on Earth in the 30th millennium. May or may not have permanently offed Chaos. All Major baddies we imperfect incarnations of Chaos sent through time to retrieve Sailor Moon's crystal. Source of the multiple timelines coming into existence.
2) Dark Moon time line. Usagi becomes Queen in the 21st millennium at the age of 22. Grants her subjects longevity. Eventually comes to rule the Earth. Seldom leaves the palace. Banishes Dictator Phantom and the Dark Moon religious terrorists. Mother of Chibi-usa. Time line best fit for Wheels of Time crossover/fusion.
3) Sailor Cosmos timeline. In the grim, dark future of the Sailorverse there is only war. There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting gods. Sailor Cosmos, having lost all that was important to her to Sailor Chaos' rampage, chooses to go to the past when Chaos' powers were not so great and guide Eternal Sailor Moon (her past self?) to destroy it so that her time line never comes to be.
4) Original time line. Unknown. This time line is never shown, but since everything from the fall of the Silver Millennium is a direct result of Chaos dicking around we can assume a time line exists where Queen Metallia never manipulated Beryl into attacking the Moon (or giving her the power to succeed).

Edit: Forgot there was an edit function. This is what I get for making Warhammer 40k jokes.

[Merc]

You have two original timelines up there! =p

[thepanda]

You have two original timelines up there! =p

Doh! Thought I'd erased that from the Cosmos time line. Number 4 is the orginal; Cosmos vs Sailor Chaos isn't.

[Dracos]

I tend to attribute Chibi Usa's age to the typical tendancy of anime writers to (when given the opportunity to name a time) name a value that is absurdly high.  "Have not seen this for Hundred(s) of years!"  "You're Five Hundred Years Too Early to Face Me!"  "Beware Thousands of Years of Chinese Amazon History!"

It's all over the place and very few authors avoid doing it at least once.  It NEVER makes sense.

[Merc]

Actually, the 900 yr old thing is from the manga, Drac. I can't recall for sure, but I believe in the anime she was only 6-7 years old.

[Dracos]

Sorry, I used 'anime' when I really meant "Japanese Authors".  Manga, Anime, it really doesn't matter.  It is used frequently and retconned out for being stupid just as frequently.

[Merc]

Eeh, I don't think it's really that stupid as you make it out to be. In most of those cases it's purely hyperbole (the examples you list tend to be martial arts posturing, for example), and in cases where it's not, like say DBZ, it was originally kept to reasonable numbers early on, but as the scale of conflict grew exponentially with the appearance of Freeza and 'stages', so would the power levels, and they simply stopped mentioning them at all (though never really retconned either).

Chibi-Usa's age, while rather large, does by certain plot points in the manga -have- to be large. It could have admittedly been something like 300yrs old and still not be out of place, but it did need to be a large number. The anime doesn't have some of those plot points, or changes them a fair deal, which is why there she can get away with being 6-7 yrs old rather than complicate things.

[thepanda]

What Merc said. It does relate somewhat to the plot in the manga.

[Jon]

I'm curious what some of those plot-points are.

[thepanda]

I'm curious what some of those plot-points are.

After Usagi takes the throne she eventually gives everyone longevity. The average person's lifespan is 1000 years. They stop aging once they mature. If she wasn't abnormally old and locked in a child's body she wouldn't have received the harassment that drove her to take the crystal in the future, allowing Nemesis to launch and attack and more-or-less destroy the world. 900 years of being locked in the body and mind of a small child, constantly harassed, friendless, distanced from her family, and knowing her screw up caused the end of the world; Doom Phantom was able to take advantage of this and used it to create Black Lady.

[Dracos]

Relating to the plot makes it make sense?

The majority of bleach folks are in the several hundred years old.  This is plot relevent as various issues from lifetimes ago show up.  The only old guy is supposed to be 2000+ years old.  The youngest non-teenager cast is hundreds of years old.

...The vast majority still act 20 year olds or younger, and reflect training that matches that.

Chibi-usa acts like a six year old.  There's no mysterious 'I'm a wise old loli' about her.  There's no sense that she'd be bored out of her mind studying basic arthimatic with girls her physical age or that she more easily relates with older cast members.  Just plot claiming 'she's 900' or needing her to be so for some sense of sanity doesn't make it any less ridiculous than four hundred year old elves who are on par with 16 year olds.

It's not a huge crime or anything, but I don't take it seriously at all and just instantly phase out when folks do that and its not backed with surreal experience/capabilities or at least physical maturity.

[Merc]

Just plot claiming 'she's 900' or needing her to be so for some sense of sanity doesn't make it any less ridiculous than four hundred year old elves who are on par with 16 year olds.

Oh, -that- sort of stupidity. Yeah, okay that's fair. I've just been numbed to that bit of suspension of disbelief because it's so common for long-aged species to somehow mature/learn much slower.

...But that's not exactly a japanese thing -either-, so you're gonna have to extend that even further from "Japanese Authors" to "Every freaking storyteller in the world with fantasy/sci-fi elements in their story that results in different longetivity of species". =p

[thepanda]

Relating to the plot makes it make sense?

Um, yes?  Sure, it didn't have to be 900 years, just old enough to note she wasn't aging properly as motivation. But so long as it is internally consist I don't see any reason to call shenanigans. It isn't like it goes against anything in the series.

You may as well ask why people who touch their past selves disappear in time travel stories. "The same object cannot occupy the same space" doesn't make sense when you're talking about living things that grow. But if that's the rule they establish you just roll with it unless something comes up in story that contradicts it, right?

[Also, did something just happen to Soulriders? The forum wouldn't load for a while.]

[Brian]

You may as well ask why people who touch their past selves disappear in time travel stories. "The same object cannot occupy the same space" doesn't make sense when you're talking about living things that grow. But if that's the rule they establish you just roll with it unless something comes up in story that contradicts it, right?

[Also, did something just happen to Soulriders? The forum wouldn't load for a while.]

Pluto takes exception to this whole discussion, obviously. :3

Though, I do agree that Drac makes a sound point.  I'm going to veer away from created/fantasy races and stick just with humans/modified humans.  There is something strange about the idea that, in a format where power can equal lifespan (and frequently does), the 200 year old dude is only a LITTLE more powerful than his 16 year old student.

I think what he's getting at is, "That span of years feels arbitrary, since it doesn't seem to mean much."  It's surprising how little flavor you can give that elder figure without things starting to get kind of strange, or needing to really, really amp up the student....

[thepanda]

There is something strange about the idea that, in a format where power can equal lifespan (and frequently does), the 200 year old dude is only a LITTLE more powerful than his 16 year old student.

The student is usually a prodigy or genius or has some kind of special circumstance (is really half demon/god/space aliens/digidestined/heir to a powerful family/ has hax eyes/ect).

Start of story: Bad guy > teachers > hero
After training: Bad guys > hero > teacher
Sometime in the middle of fight, probably after getting really motivated: Hero > Bad guys > teacher

And even then the old folks often show at some point why they were considered badases.