Random DM nagging.

[Anastasia]

The permanency rules will stay in here 'till after session tomorrow. At that point, barring feedback, they'll go into the rules topic. If you have anything to say or suggest, do it now or forever hold your peace. Do it in here, preferably.

[Merc]

I think it's fine for the most part, just some questions for clarification:

The target, if a creature, must have hit dice equal to the spell to be made permanent times three...If your hit dice are lower than this, you suffer a penalty to constitution equal to the difference between your hit dice and the required level... This penalty cannot be overcome in any way as long as the permanent spell remains on the creature.

If I get a a level 6 spell permanent, that's 18 when my HD is 16, so -2 con. When I hit level 17 does it become -1 con and penalty goes away when I reach level 18, or is it a permanent -2 con even as I level up?

In any case, a creature cannot have more than two permanent spells active on him. Additional permanency spells fail.

Regarding this and the clarification above (assuming it's a permanent con penalty), can a permanent spell be removed/changed for the purposes of what two spells are made permanent, or is one stuck with a spell once it's cast? If yes, what's the process for removing a permanent spell so another can be cast in it's place?

[Anastasia]

1. Yes, the penalty would lessen as you gain hit dice. At level 18 the penalty would vanish entirely.

2. Good question. Added. In short: If the bearer is willing, it can be.

[Corwin]

With Permanency in play and considering what Team NPC took, I'll adjust this.

I'll be using my very own meager CL11 easily dispellable Permanency. For it, I'll go with Arcane Sight and Blindsight. If I can't use Blindsight, I want to pick See Invisibility. Also, to follow up on a PM, Dune said he didn't mind in principle is a cantrip was Permanency'd past the normal limit, so unless he changed his mind there I want Prestidigitation too.

New spells: Greater Spell Immunity, Mass Death Ward (SC p61) and Lion's Roar (SC p133) for lvl8, Fortunate Fate (SC p100) for lvl7, Greater Dispel Magic for lvl6, Meteoric Strike (PHB2 p121) and Crown of Flame for lvl5, Celestial Brilliance and Light of Purity for lvl4, and Divine Insight (SC p70) and Stretch Weapon (PHB2 p127) for lvl2.

I'll be dropping Triadspell for lvl5, Death Ward and Panacea for lvl4, and Shatter and Make Whole for lvl2. [Never used them except one for Panacea and Shatter; Shatter failed to work, and Panacea was just saving a slot on a Heal]

Fortunate Fate is the only one that hasn't been preapproved, from recollection. The three BoED spells were actually from Dune's paladin spell lists, so I presume they are okay but am asking here just in case.

[Anastasia]

I'll be using my very own meager CL11 easily dispellable Permanency. For it, I'll go with Arcane Sight and Blindsight. If I can't use Blindsight, I want to pick See Invisibility. Also, to follow up on a PM, Dune said he didn't mind in principle is a cantrip was Permanency'd past the normal limit, so unless he changed his mind there I want Prestidigitation too.

We'll go ahead and go with those two. If Blindsight proves unfair or too useful we'll scale it back to See Invisibility. As for the cantrip...eh. Sure, why not.

Lion's Roar

I like that you and Hanna both darted to that spell.

[Fortunate Fate is the only one that hasn't been preapproved, from recollection. The three BoED spells were actually from Dune's paladin spell lists, so I presume they are okay but am asking here just in case.

The BoED spells are fine, yes. Fortunate Fate is fine as well. Do note that in the event of the target of Fortunate Fate taking extreme amounts of damage, past the ability of the heal to restore, that it won't save them. For example, taking 400 damage when you have 20 hit points left will kill you, 150 HP for fortunate fate or not.

[Anastasia]

I'm working out Sylvie's spells now. Between that and Factotum and Monk, she's turned into Batman.

I'm scared.

[Anastasia]

Thought: Capping Greater Mighty Wallop at boosting your weapon size by 2 categories. It's still a worthwhile booster spell without being the unholy abomination that it is on monks. Could do 3 if 2 feels too heavily a nerf.

For reference since you're the main PC hit by this, could you post what that would put your damage at, Willim?

[Yuthirin]

Thought: Capping Greater Mighty Wallop at boosting your weapon size by 2 categories. It's still a worthwhile booster spell without being the unholy abomination that it is on monks. Could do 3 if 2 feels too heavily a nerf.

For reference since you're the main PC hit by this, could you post what that would put your damage at, Willim?

Current: 8d8   
Level 20 with 2 Cap: 8d10   
Level 20 with 3 Cap: 9d10

[Yuthirin]

Those are with the changes applied. Current damage is 9d10.

[Corwin]

Is epic divine might an (eventually) eligible feat? Also, is the attached battle dance from Dragon 297?

[Anastasia]

Is epic divine might an (eventually) eligible feat? Also, is the attached battle dance from Dragon 297?

Epic Divine Might would be tweaked. It runs off 3.0 Divine Might, which grants charisma to damage for a number of rounds equal to your charisma modifier. I'm fine with either doubling the damage from it or granting it a longer than one round duration, but not both in one feat.

Battle Dancer? Let's see. You get charisma as an insight bonus to armor class, attack rolls and reflex saves. Let's say someone who takes it has a +10 charisma modifier. You could argue higher, but whatever. That's a +10 bonus to three things from a feat. Let's compare it to armor skin or epic dodge, which grant a +2 natural or dodge bonus to armor class. Epic Prowess is +1 to attack rolls and Epic Weapon Focus is +4. Compared to Battle Dancer that blows 'em away. Finally, Epic Reflexes is +4. It doesn't look remotely balanced compared to those, does it? Now to be fair those are mostly untyped bonuses, and insight bonuses could very well have another insight bonus they overlap with. It still doesn't mitigate the feat, which really feels like cramming 3 nice class features onto an epic feat, so no.

[Anastasia]

Cor asked.

Epic Divine Might [Epic]
Prerequisite: Divine Might, cha 21
Benefit: When you use Divine Might, you deal twice your charisma modifier as bonus damage.

Persistent Divine Might [Epic]
Prerequisite: Divine Might, cha 21
Benefit: When you use Divine Might, it lasts for a number of rounds equal to your charisma modifier.

[Corwin]

I won't spend an epic feat on the former, the latter works for me.

[Ebiris]

Giving Chameleons access to epic magic doesn't sit right with me. Really goes against the 'jack of all trades master of none' concept in favour of 'it's d&d so why bother with anything but magic'

[Anastasia]

I'm sort of in the same boat as you. At the same time, an epic Chameleon should be able to mimic an archmage, too. I spent a bunch of time going back and forth on this. Ultimately, if I'm going with the concept of everyone, even paladins and rangers, getting an epic magic progression, then Chameleons need one too.

For all I love Chameleon's concept, I'm finding the execution is...eh.