Random DM nagging.

Anastasia · February 24, 2012, 07:39:53 PM

As you all know, you're 4 levels away from reaching epic. There's a good chance this game will make it there now, so I think it's time to talk about it. First of all, you're all spellcasters of one stripe or another. There's various approaches you can use for epic spellcasting. Whichever one you want to use is up to you.

1. Ignore it. There's no obligation to keep taking caster levels past 20. Diversify out and don't worry about it. This is the simplest answer, though it may not be entirely practical.

2. Ignore epic magic and focus on boosting your existing casting. With feats like Improved Metamagic, Automatic Metamagic, Great Ability, Epic Spell Focus and so on, you can focus on honing what you already have. While you won't gain any more spells or tricks, you'll get better with what you have.

3. Take Epic Spell Capacity and use epic magic. This requires the investment of a feat but gains you access to more spell charges and more resources. While it sounds nice, there is one mitigating factor. You'll end up having to make at least some of your own spells, as epic's support base is low. This is considerable amount of effort and will requires you to put more work into your character.

You don't need to decide right now, or even until level 21 or whenever you finish up your spell progression. Do keep it in mind, so that when it is time you can make a considered and informed choice. Take a look at what epic spells are already in the epic rules section of house rules, think and ponder it. I'll be posting a small guide on epic spell creation a little later. If you have questions you'd like answered in it, let me know.

Second of all, there's the matter of saves. Level 20 is the last level that you use class save progressions. At level 21+ you use the epic save progression instead. So if you were thinking about a dip to give your saves an extra little boost, you'll want to do so by level 20 at the latest. Also, while not official yet, I'm almost certainly going to reduce the epic save bonus progression to +1 at level 23 and every three levels thereafter. Saves are usually too high come epic in normal D&D, gestalt only exacerbates this problem.

Third, epic feats are coming up as well as epic PrCs. You may want to consider what epic feats you want and what non-epic prerequisites they require. You have one more feat between now and epic, so if you need something in place for that, this is the time. As far as epic PrCs go, the ones in the house rules are all valid choices. Any in the SRD are also valid, though may require revisions - some are underwhelming, over-prerequisited or simply in need of update from 3.0's design paradigm. If any of those interest you, talk to me. If you want to make a new epic PrC, you're more than welcome to. However, you need to be able to answer one question: Why is this an epic PrC instead of a normal PrC? What about epic is required to make this concept work?

Finally, have fun and continue to use this to resist your fates. Can you overturn the destiny dictated from Nessus? Can you defeat fate itself, twisted by Baator's iron chains?

Corwin · February 24, 2012, 08:05:33 PM

Mostly reposting stuff, since all the recent posts put it pages away and out of sight.

First, on the chef. It might be cool if he got a name and/or a listing in the Aurora topic? I like how people have places where they can often be found, it's a nice bit of flavor.

Second, my Permanency question. I think this would be neat, and whatever the answer it'd help me see how you decide Permanency spells better.
http://www.soulriders.net/forum/index.php/topic,101729.msg1031931.html#msg1031931

Third, rolled this for Merc a while back. I saw you respond to Yuth's roll but not this one, so I've been wondering if you missed it.
http://www.soulriders.net/forum/index.php/topic,101729.msg1031848.html#msg1031848

Last, alignment stuff. I'm considering a shift to exciting zealotry, but I won't if it ends up leading to headaches. The more info I have to decide, the better.
http://www.soulriders.net/forum/index.php/topic,101729.msg1031658.html#msg1031658
http://www.soulriders.net/forum/index.php/topic,101729.msg1031701.html#msg1031701
http://www.soulriders.net/forum/index.php/topic,101729.msg1031721.html#msg1031721

Merc · February 24, 2012, 09:15:48 PM

Quote from: AnastasiaAs you all know, you're 4 levels away from reaching epic. There's a good chance this game will make it there now, so I think it's time to talk about it.

I've thought about it.

Quoteepic spells

I'm still not charmed by the epic spell lists for duskblades, particularly level 6, though I know you were making some cooler spells like the vacuum one, and I dunno exactly what spell creation options are for duskblades (if any). Most pre-epic spells have caps on them for scaling too, and even if I don't like the spells, I can still use them for better arcane strike. So yeah, epic feat tax will be paid. That said, I'm debating whether I'd rather pick up automatic quick cast at 21 or epic spell capacity. Either way, I'd take the other at 24, along with improved AQC.

Quoteepic saves

Hadn't considered the epic save thing. I had mentioned that I'd planned to go back to rogue, and then start taking the prestige archivist class in epic, but given rogue 13 gives no saves, so I might hold off on that for level 21. I'll still pick up rogue for level 18-19 though.

Quoteepic feats

While not definite, I do have a general idea of where to go...
21: Automatic Quick Cast
24: Epic Spell Capacity + Improved Automatic Quick Cast
27: (depends on what I end up taking on rogue side, but might default to Source of Inspiration)
28: Superior Initiative
30: (depends on what I end up taking on rogue side, but might default to Epic Font of Inspiration)

Part of it depends on how that AoO epic PrC you were making finishes shaping up or if I have any ideas for other new epic feats.

Yuthirin · February 24, 2012, 09:26:26 PM

QuoteRapid Healing

This ring grants a living wearer fast healing 3. It must be worn for 24 hours before its powers activate, and if removed it will not function again until it has been worn for 24 hours by the same individual. Market Price: 300,000 gold. Spells used: regenerate.

This is weird. The SRD has a Ring of Regeneration for 90,000. Regen is better. Right?

Anastasia · February 24, 2012, 09:27:23 PM

Quote from: Yuthirin on February 24, 2012, 09:26:26 PM
QuoteRapid Healing

This ring grants a living wearer fast healing 3. It must be worn for 24 hours before its powers activate, and if removed it will not function again until it has been worn for 24 hours by the same individual. Market Price: 300,000 gold. Spells used: regenerate.

This is weird. The SRD has a Ring of Regeneration for 90,000. Regen is better. Right?

Quick answer here: The Ring of Regeneration heals 1 hit point every hour. Not round. Hour.

Anastasia · February 24, 2012, 09:28:52 PM

Quote from: Corwin on February 24, 2012, 08:05:33 PMFirst, on the chef. It might be cool if he got a name and/or a listing in the Aurora topic? I like how people have places where they can often be found, it's a nice bit of flavor.

I swore I gave him a name. I'll add him to the Aurora post when I update the shops shortly.

QuoteSecond, my Permanency question. I think this would be neat, and whatever the answer it'd help me see how you decide Permanency spells better.
http://www.soulriders.net/forum/index.php/topic,101729.msg1031931.html#msg1031931

Points in its favor are that the duration is 24 hours and that it (arguably) corrects a fundamental imbalance in gameplay; scry in die in particular. There's no point against them, either. I honestly don't have any concrete objection to doing so, go ahead if you wish. My complaint boils down to not liking the spell. I don't have a particular mechanical beef with it; while you can argue that it should allow SR or a save, the function it accomplished isn't one that automatically needs it. The spells just bug me on a personal level. I don't know why. At worst if I feel it's being abused or poorly balanced, I'll slap a save or spell resistance on it.

So yeah, go ahead.

QuoteThird, rolled this for Merc a while back. I saw you respond to Yuth's roll but not this one, so I've been wondering if you missed it.
http://www.soulriders.net/forum/index.php/topic,101729.msg1031848.html#msg1031848

The ring has the symbol of Swanmays, an organization of nature based, exalted women who can shapeshift into swans. In particular it refers to the Swan Kingdom - you don't know anything else, it's fairly obscure Prime Material information.

QuoteLast, alignment stuff. I'm considering a shift to exciting zealotry, but I won't if it ends up leading to headaches. The more info I have to decide, the better.
http://www.soulriders.net/forum/index.php/topic,101729.msg1031658.html#msg1031658
http://www.soulriders.net/forum/index.php/topic,101729.msg1031701.html#msg1031701
http://www.soulriders.net/forum/index.php/topic,101729.msg1031721.html#msg1031721

Let's not. It's going to lead to headaches the more I think about it.

Anastasia · February 24, 2012, 09:33:04 PM

Quote from: Merc on February 24, 2012, 09:15:48 PMI'm still not charmed by the epic spell lists for duskblades, particularly level 6, though I know you were making some cooler spells like the vacuum one, and I dunno exactly what spell creation options are for duskblades (if any). Most pre-epic spells have caps on them for scaling too, and even if I don't like the spells, I can still use them for better arcane strike. So yeah, epic feat tax will be paid. That said, I'm debating whether I'd rather pick up automatic quick cast at 21 or epic spell capacity. Either way, I'd take the other at 24, along with improved AQC.

Spell creation costs nothing and is basically free. Since epic lacks support I'm not going to charge you for making up spells. If you want a spell, make one up and if I approve it, you can take it and I'll add it to the epic duskblade spell list. By all means, feel free to do so. There's no checks or expenses involved. The player shouldn't be penalized for having to make up new gaming materials for epic.

QuotePart of it depends on how that AoO epic PrC you were making finishes shaping up or if I have any ideas for other new epic feats.

I backburnered it, as I wasn't comfortable with how it turned out. Honestly, since I dislike AoO builds like that I'm not the sort of person who should be making a class around it. I'm invariably unhappy with the results since I dislike the premise. This in turns leads me to wanting to revise it, yet I'm not happy with that result so it ends up being zero-sum. If you wanna take a stab at the concept feel free.

Yuthirin · February 24, 2012, 09:48:33 PM

Dune, what's your opinion on Optional material components from Complete Mage?

Anastasia · February 24, 2012, 09:58:30 PM

Quote from: Yuthirin on February 24, 2012, 09:48:33 PM
Dune, what's your opinion on Optional material components from Complete Mage?

About the same opinion as buying Metamagic rods, I suppose.

Merc · February 24, 2012, 10:04:08 PM

QuoteI backburnered it, as I wasn't comfortable with how it turned out. Honestly, since I dislike AoO builds like that I'm not the sort of person who should be making a class around it. I'm invariably unhappy with the results since I dislike the premise. This in turns leads me to wanting to revise it, yet I'm not happy with that result so it ends up being zero-sum. If you wanna take a stab at the concept feel free.

*nods* Makes sense. A bit of a pity since a lot of the ideas you had for it worked well for Ithea, but it did seem a bit powerful too. I'll pass on giving the concept a stab myself though, I honestly don't get what part of the class would signal 'this requires epic to work, concept-wise', outside of a high power level and even with the ones that you've already made up or that already exist, I don't feel I have a good frame of reference for designing there.

Anastasia · February 24, 2012, 10:13:26 PM

The rationale I worked with was that the level of denial and skill involved was superhuman. After all, overcoming those limits and managing attacks at the slightest mistake or chance an enemy gives can't be easy.

Anastasia · February 24, 2012, 11:07:13 PM

While Tannin is here and has a bit of downtime, he'd like to formally request any sort of magical item that would assist in gather information or bluff checks. These help him do his job.

Anastasia · February 25, 2012, 12:44:57 AM

Since we're talking about characters into epic, here's a foursome of updated build charts. I chose 33 as a completely arbitrary number. Nothing in these is set in stone, things can and do happen to divert the course of a character's career. I never imagined Adrian would take Dragon Devotee, or that Misalea would go into the Graceful Blow. Shit happens, priorities shift and needs change.

Adrian:

Spoiler: Show

Misalea:

Spoiler: Show

Dana

Spoiler: Show

Tannin

Spoiler: Show

Anastasia · February 25, 2012, 01:08:52 PM

Cor wanted a list of the previous booksets from Vel's, so here you go. If you want information on any of them feel free to ask.

Gwinnan's Travel Logs, Volume 1: The Silver Sea. 150 gold.
Parsali's Secrets of Transmutative Alchemy. 500 gold.
The Narrative Guide to the Styx. 600 gold.
Lost Lore of the Abyss: Kelvezu demons. 250 gold.
The Hidden Blade of Elysium: 700 gold.
Biological Functions of Lemures: 100 gold.
Nephilim, Children of the Fallen: 400 gold.
The Bloodeye Ritual: 1,000 gold.

Corwin · February 25, 2012, 01:10:33 PM

I'd prefer to ask IC whenever it works out.

Soulriders 5.0: Legend of the Unending Games

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Random DM nagging.

Anastasia

Corwin

Merc

Yuthirin

Anastasia

Anastasia

Anastasia

Yuthirin

Anastasia

Merc

Anastasia

Anastasia

Anastasia

Anastasia

Corwin