[Haruhi] Sympathy

[Brian]

Okay, this is my current focus.  I really struggled with chapter one, which is an unfortunate, necessary evil.  Ugh.

I thought it was allergies, but I think I may actually have a cold.  Ugh.

Thanks to Hal for his help; apologies that I haven't done much revising, but I need to get past this chapter or I'll be stuck here forever. >_<

Latest update: Added revisions of prologue, chapter 6, and chapter 7 (which is now the epilogue).

[Halbarad]

Chapter the zeroth!

Sometimes, like this, I wonder if maybe he thinks similar things -- that today feels off.

'like this' is a bit awkward. Maybe 'when things are like this'?

"Well, that sucks for you, but I don't see how your financial irresponsibility has anything to do with us meeting up for the mystery searches. What, do you need bus fare?" I grumble at him.

Do we ever actually see a bus anywhere? Train fare seems like it'd fit a bit better.

Get to the point already -- what do you want to quit moping?

Somewhat awkward wording here - maybe 'what will it take to get you to quit moping?'

Somehow, the space to one side of Kyon ripples and distorts, disgorging Yuki's figure frozen just as Kyon's hand is, a knife suspended in a lethal stab towards his heart.

I'm... not quite sure what happened here? Did Yuki teleport next to Kyon and try to stab him herself with him stopping her, or is she stopping a currently disembodied hand (or knife) from getting to him? (as either would be somewhat plausible)

[Halbarad]

Chapter the first!

Overall, I like the flow of this a lot better now. =)

Asakura Ryouko was probably the most annoyingly persistent of them;

Works, but this is also Haruhi essentially meeting Asakura for the first time, so she'd probably make some mention of it - "the most annoyingly persistent of them was a girl named Asakura Ryouko", etc.

In the meantime, from the opening athletic competition, I notice very quickly that Kyon is, or could be, a star athlete.

Should probably still be Boring-kun here, the next paragraph is where she picks up Kyon as his old nickname from eavesdropping.

Despite all that, he looks and behaves lazy

Maybe 'acts' instead of 'behaves'? The construct is a little weird.

'going home club'

Personal preference issue here; I'd probably break this as "'going home' club" myself, but use or ignore at your discretion. Not really anything wrong with it as is.

Maybe he even had some part time job that just kept him remarkably healthy, and that's why he doesn't join any clubs.

Tense mismatch here. had/doesn't.

bad-ass trench-coat

Badass I'm not sure can or should be hyphenated. Quite sure that trenchcoat shouldn't be, though - either trench coat or trenchcoat should work.

I love this paragraph, though.

I grumble about people who can't accomplish anything on their own, but he just ignores that to ask me about something else I did in middle school -- the talismans I hung up everywhere, this time.

Breaking the scene here seems a little abrupt; maybe she can say something to blow off the question or wonder where he's finding this stuff out about her.

Yeah, well, if I applied myself just a bit harder and focused on just one thing, I could join any sports club I wanted, probably.

They're too boring to stick with for more than a day, but at least I can try them out.

Mixed message here - she could join them if she made an effort, but they're already too boring, but she can do it anyway? Seems to start out that she's starting out somewhat positive, then going negative, then bouncing back to positive again. I'd think she'd just stay down on them - too much effort for what'll almost certainly be no return.

""The legendary aloof 'beast girl' of east middle school falling for Kyon! Haha!"

Double quote at the beginning of the line, and East Middle School should be capitalized.

a rumor that no one else from east middle school will believe, I expect

Here too.

I wasn't sure how to feel about it. He hadn't cracked the system entirely, but he'd figured enough of it out. He missed the significance of the numbers, and he didn't realize that I started counting with zero instead of one.

Nitpicky point, but the numbers is what he -did- pick up on. He missed the colors, and said he thought it would be better to start at 1 rather than 0. Doesn't change much here though.

Though, they're pale, and look like they need sun even more than the one girl in that club did!

Nix the comma after 'though'. Could probably stand to kill the one after 'pale' too, but that one's probably okay - preference on that one.

I mean, he pays me attention,

Maybe 'pays attention to me'.

[Brian]

Chapter the zeroth!

Sometimes, like this, I wonder if maybe he thinks similar things -- that today feels off.

'like this' is a bit awkward. Maybe 'when things are like this'?

Yes; excellent suggestion.

"Well, that sucks for you, but I don't see how your financial irresponsibility has anything to do with us meeting up for the mystery searches. What, do you need bus fare?" I grumble at him.

Do we ever actually see a bus anywhere? Train fare seems like it'd fit a bit better.

I seem to recall a bus being mentioned, but train works just as well.

Get to the point already -- what do you want to quit moping?

Somewhat awkward wording here - maybe 'what will it take to get you to quit moping?'

I'll go with that.

Somehow, the space to one side of Kyon ripples and distorts, disgorging Yuki's figure frozen just as Kyon's hand is, a knife suspended in a lethal stab towards his heart.

I'm... not quite sure what happened here? Did Yuki teleport next to Kyon and try to stab him herself with him stopping her, or is she stopping a currently disembodied hand (or knife) from getting to him? (as either would be somewhat plausible)

Er....  Yeah, that part's muddled on multiple levels.

The former.  Will restate.

Chapter the first!

Overall, I like the flow of this a lot better now. =)

Oh, good ... it was something of a struggle.  @_@

Asakura Ryouko was probably the most annoyingly persistent of them;

Works, but this is also Haruhi essentially meeting Asakura for the first time, so she'd probably make some mention of it - "the most annoyingly persistent of them was a girl named Asakura Ryouko", etc.

And mention she's likely to be come class representative.

In the meantime, from the opening athletic competition, I notice very quickly that Kyon is, or could be, a star athlete.

Should probably still be Boring-kun here, the next paragraph is where she picks up Kyon as his old nickname from eavesdropping.

Oops; got it.

Despite all that, he looks and behaves lazy

Maybe 'acts' instead of 'behaves'? The construct is a little weird.

She's investigated him a little more; I can probably change it to 'he is as lazy as he looks'.

'going home club'

Personal preference issue here; I'd probably break this as "'going home' club" myself, but use or ignore at your discretion. Not really anything wrong with it as is.

Hah, I had it that way earlier.  Should have gone with my first instinct!  I think the expanded quotation is something I went with from a translation.

Maybe he even had some part time job that just kept him remarkably healthy, and that's why he doesn't join any clubs.

Tense mismatch here. had/doesn't.

Glad that I'm not all over the place like I usually am. >_>;;

bad-ass trench-coat

Badass I'm not sure can or should be hyphenated. Quite sure that trenchcoat shouldn't be, though - either trench coat or trenchcoat should work.

Every so often, my custom library nukes itself.  Not sure why....

I love this paragraph, though.

I couldn't help it. ^_^;

I grumble about people who can't accomplish anything on their own, but he just ignores that to ask me about something else I did in middle school -- the talismans I hung up everywhere, this time.

Breaking the scene here seems a little abrupt; maybe she can say something to blow off the question or wonder where he's finding this stuff out about her.

Yeah.

Yeah, well, if I applied myself just a bit harder and focused on just one thing, I could join any sports club I wanted, probably.

They're too boring to stick with for more than a day, but at least I can try them out.

Mixed message here - she could join them if she made an effort, but they're already too boring, but she can do it anyway? Seems to start out that she's starting out somewhat positive, then going negative, then bouncing back to positive again. I'd think she'd just stay down on them - too much effort for what'll almost certainly be no return.

That's reasonable.  I was trying to hint that she would have liked people to ask her to stick around, but she wasn't pulling that off, this timeline.  Clarity will win, here.

""The legendary aloof 'beast girl' of east middle school falling for Kyon! Haha!"

Double quote at the beginning of the line, and East Middle School should be capitalized.

Gotcha.

I wasn't sure how to feel about it. He hadn't cracked the system entirely, but he'd figured enough of it out. He missed the significance of the numbers, and he didn't realize that I started counting with zero instead of one.

Nitpicky point, but the numbers is what he -did- pick up on. He missed the colors, and said he thought it would be better to start at 1 rather than 0. Doesn't change much here though.

Oops.  Easy fix!

Though, they're pale, and look like they need sun even more than the one girl in that club did!

Nix the comma after 'though'. Could probably stand to kill the one after 'pale' too, but that one's probably okay - preference on that one.

Yeah, that's clumsy; I'll reword: "Heck, they're so pale, they look like they need sun even more than the one girl in that other club did!"

I mean, he pays me attention,

Maybe 'pays attention to me'.

Right.  Okay!  Thanks for the feedback, Hal.  :D

[sarsaparilla]

Ok, since I'm not in a position to make any comments on language, I'll just try to express my general impressions.

Ch#0

After reading the first two sentences I realize that this isn't Kyon narrating. A couple of more sentences and I'm almost certain that it's Haruhi. Confirmed at the end of paragraph six. Well done with capturing her thoughts despite the fact that we never hear them directly in the canon.

I have a problem trying to put the story on the timeline. The header mentions book 9 but if the event that Haruhi refers to is related to the Melancholy then one year from that should be beyond book 11, I think.

Kyon's money problems - actually, I was thinking about that as well at some point but eventually dropped the premise because it started to go into a passive-aggressive direction. As a distraction to something else, as in here, it works just fine.

The last part of the chapter is rather densely packed with important stuff and I had to slow down before (probably) getting most of it. Ok, this looks like a "what if" scenario that strikes me as immediately interesting. This part could be expanded just a bit to keep the 'information density' on the same level throughout the chapter, or otherwise the reader may miss some pertinent details.

Oh, and your portrayal of Haruhi in here rings very true to me. In fact it's Kyon who's harder to gauge now that we don't see inside his head.

Ch#1

Okay, a couple of sentences in and I'm starting to feel a cognitive dissonance. It's still Haruhi mode narration but the facts don't match ... then around paragraph 4 or 5 the realization dawns. Ok, I didn't see that coming but it's even better than what I expected ... and a bit scary, considering all the possible pitfalls. I'm already feeling for poor Haruhi!

Two sections (if sections are divided by a horizontal ruler) in, and I think that while the narrator is still Haruhi, she's somewhat removed from her portrayal in the respective passages of Melancholy. The original Haruhi was more aggressive, dismissive and competitive. I'm not certain how many traits you wanted to swap between Haruhi and Kyon, but these don't seem to have ended on his side either (fridge logic might suggest that we shouldn't trust Kyon's narration too much on these issues :)

Ok, after reading through it all, I think that the level of detail is about right. There's enough new material from Haruhi's POV to keep it fresh, and known plot points to keep it anchored to the timeline.

I must say that I find this Haruhi more sympathetic than any other I have ever seen (even at this stage of character growth), including the original. Your work underlines the hideous baggage that comes with being a God Mode Sue. I only learned to appreciate the original Haruhi after a significant amount of growth, and she still manages to squick me on occasion all the way to the latest books, but this Haruhi here is entirely likeable, and her shortcomings are believable and just make her more realistic. I am deeply impressed.

I am sorry that I can't find any constructive criticism at this point, this story seems to be proceeding perfectly fine.

[Brian]

Ok, since I'm not in a position to make any comments on language, I'll just try to express my general impressions.

All feedback is appreciated!

After reading the first two sentences I realize that this isn't Kyon narrating. A couple of more sentences and I'm almost certain that it's Haruhi. Confirmed at the end of paragraph six. Well done with capturing her thoughts despite the fact that we never hear them directly in the canon.

Excellent; I was really apprehensive about trying to capture her with reasonable accuracy....

I have a problem trying to put the story on the timeline. The header mentions book 9 but if the event that Haruhi refers to is related to the Melancholy then one year from that should be beyond book 11, I think.

You are correct; this story was started before novels 10/11 were completed.  There's also an implied resolution to that story arc that I didn't put much effort into -- Haruhi lampshades this by noting that Kyon was once angry at her, and once at Sasaki's friends.

This is meant to use all of the compatible novel 9 events, which means ... it would diverge before the timeline split, but the action doesn't take place until later.

Should I clarify this more in the story?  Or maybe just leave a better note explaining where it diverges?

The last part of the chapter is rather densely packed with important stuff and I had to slow down before (probably) getting most of it. Ok, this looks like a "what if" scenario that strikes me as immediately interesting. This part could be expanded just a bit to keep the 'information density' on the same level throughout the chapter, or otherwise the reader may miss some pertinent details.

Does it feel too rushed or forced?  Do you think providing more detail and slowing that down a little might help?  (I may do that anyway....)

Oh, and your portrayal of Haruhi in here rings very true to me. In fact it's Kyon who's harder to gauge now that we don't see inside his head.

Excellent; my goal is 50% accomplished. ;)

Okay, a couple of sentences in and I'm starting to feel a cognitive dissonance. It's still Haruhi mode narration but the facts don't match ... then around paragraph 4 or 5 the realization dawns. Ok, I didn't see that coming but it's even better than what I expected ... and a bit scary, considering all the possible pitfalls. I'm already feeling for poor Haruhi!

Ideal!  My goal is to have her be (and remain) a sympathetic character throughout this entire story.

I must say that I find this Haruhi more sympathetic than any other I have ever seen (even at this stage of character growth), including the original. Your work underlines the hideous baggage that comes with being a God Mode Sue. I only learned to appreciate the original Haruhi after a significant amount of growth, and she still manages to squick me on occasion all the way to the latest books, but this Haruhi here is entirely likeable, and her shortcomings are believable and just make her more realistic. I am deeply impressed.

I'm glad it works.

To be completely honest, this characterization is pretty much how I try to interpet Haruhi in the canon anyway (if, in this story, played up even more sympathetically, since she no longer has the benefit of being the Ace).

I'm ... probably not doing myself any favors in the long run, but I like Haruhi when she's likable. ^_^;

Anyway!  Thank you for your feedback; that Haruhi feels close enough to be recognizable, while also sympathetic lets me know I'm on track with these chapters.  Now to work on chapter two....

[Muphrid]

It was one of those uncooperative days, though, where things didn't really go the way I like. It goes without saying, but it ticks me off when that happens; I always get that annoying sense of tension in the back of my head. I'm too young for it to be blood pressure, but it's no joke to say that the source of these pains is almost always the insubordinate.

It seems strange, using insubordinate like this.

Koizumi frowns, looking between us, giving that creepily studying look he sometimes gets. Mikuru fidgets in her seat with a look of intent concentration, as though she were trying to understand something difficult. Yuki just flips to the next page of her book -- 'Time Enough for Love', today.

Does the closing single quote come before the comma after all?

"I seem to have somehow spent almost my entire savings over the last year without really realizing it," Kyon mutters, crossing his arms over his chest and eying me as though somehow I lost his money.

Something bugs me about this sentence, about the structure of everything after "Kyon mutters" and how the speed of everything seems fast, but I'm at a loss for what could fix it.

Somehow, the space to one side of Kyon ripples and distorts, disgorging Yuki's figure. She's frozen in place, the knife in one hand suspended in a lethal stab towards his heart, as though pinned in place by his gesture.

A knife?  What knife?

This draws Boring-kun's attention to me and he turns slowly around in his desk to look at me with the same expression as everyone else. As if to say, 'Was I for real?'

Did you use honorifics in the prologue and I just didn't realize it?

It'd be fun to imagine him as a crime-fighter, patrolling the streets late at night, but I don't see him as having the personality for that. Jumping from rooftop-to-rooftop in the dead of night, probably wearing some sort of badass trenchcoat, like some ... big damn hero?

I wonder where this could've come from.  Hm...

It doesn't take long to track down the girl that mentioned having a class with him last year -- a girl named Sakanaka. I capture her on the way to homeroom one day, surprising her by grabbing her shoulder and spinning her around in the hall.

I must wonder why Sakanaka and not, say, Kunikida?

I give Yanagimoto a flat stare. Is that really what they think an investigation means? Is that the only reason a girl would ask questions about a guy?

Ah, and here, more giving!

"Oh, this is too rich!" Yanagimoto chuckles, rolling her eyes and flashing her teeth in a grin. "So, he hung out with some awkward girl that no one else got on with? You should be set, Suzumiya! Sounds like your perfect match!"

Oh, I get it.  I see what you're doing now.  Eheh.

What ... I actually get is a group that rivals the Mystery Research Club in terms of boring activities! A pack of ghoulish freaks who looks like they would burst into flame if they were exposed to proper sunlight! A bunch of giggling girls and two solemn, pale boys who take themselves far too seriously -- and seem to get along all the same anyway.

Who look (instead of looks).

They don't even actively investigate supernatural phenomena, they only discuss it!

Please! How can you consider yourself a research society if you don't actually research?

I don't think these lines need to be separate paragraphs.

The biggest disappointment of the entire year so far! With something so unbelievably lame, and no real sign of him.... I'm forced to admit that if it weren't for Kyon, reminding me that I couldn't give up ... I probably would have.

After that ... though he was still annoying, I couldn't figure out why. He kept talking to me, though, so I kept talking back. Answering his questions, more than anything else.

I wanted to be angry at him for being so annoying, and a little bit, I was. I couldn't be truly furious, though ... even if he didn't realize it or mean to, he had showed me that I was slipping, falling back and becoming that person I didn't want to be -- another dull conformist!

It's interesting how much importance Haruhi attaches to Kyon at this point.  I dare say it's necessary for the story, but I do wonder if our original Haruhi was the same.


Overall, about the prologue: it felt a little bit like people were irritated and angry for no real reason.  Kyon being "out of money" sounds valid enough, but he walks in seemingly miffed about it rather than being "eh, whatever" until, say, he gets needled about the issue.

As far as the first chapter goes, I like that for the most part Haruhi is still Haruhi in terms of what she wants and how she thinks--that in inverting some things, you haven't gone overboard and completely changed how these people act.  It's just the circumstances that are subtly different, and even then, only slightly.  Once I realized what you were doing with Sakanaka and Yanagimoto, I understood a little better what was being done.  Would Haruhi have counterparts like this to Kyon's Taniguchi and Kunikida from the, er, original world?  Maybe not, but they're effective, and because of that, I didn't find myself questioning their roles very much.

The only other thing I should say is that, while I like this so far, one can wonder what happens next without having any clear idea of what really could happen.  Kyon seems basically no different despite the circumstances.  The space of what could possibly change seems very open-ended--in my opinion, a bit dangerously so, but that's nothing a next installment wouldn't address anyway, so I'm not that concerned.  It's interesting, and I hope Haruhi learns something, though I must admit, at this time, I have only a faint idea of what that might be.

[sarsaparilla]

You are correct; this story was started before novels 10/11 were completed.  There's also an implied resolution to that story arc that I didn't put much effort into -- Haruhi lampshades this by noting that Kyon was once angry at her, and once at Sasaki's friends.

This is meant to use all of the compatible novel 9 events, which means ... it would diverge before the timeline split, but the action doesn't take place until later.

Should I clarify this more in the story?  Or maybe just leave a better note explaining where it diverges?

I think that either option would be fine. I understand it now that you explained it but the chapter is still a bit vague.

Does it feel too rushed or forced?  Do you think providing more detail and slowing that down a little might help?  (I may do that anyway....)

Not forced, maybe a bit rushed. At some point I realized that I had just dropped the ball and I had to rewind a couple of paragraphs back and redo at a slower pace. It's not even that much about the pace itself as the quite sudden change of pace when a lot of stuff happens very fast.

To be completely honest, this characterization is pretty much how I try to interpet Haruhi in the canon anyway (if, in this story, played up even more sympathetically, since she no longer has the benefit of being the Ace).

My problem with the original Haruhi stems from one of my ideals that states "with great power must come great humility", and slapping divine powers on a character that is anywhere below divinely benevolent is a guaranteed source of squick for me. But that's just one of my personal bugbears -.-

[Brian]

It seems strange, using insubordinate like this.

Aw~!  I was all proud, because I thought it was so clever, too. ^_^;;

Is it just a little odd, or is it really jarring?  I'll let it pass if it's the former....

Does the closing single quote come before the comma after all?

Urf.  This is a good question.  My copy of the Chicago Manual of Style is unfortunately in storage.

And three years outdated.  I should get a new one.  Anyway.  I will research this.

* some time passed here, while I was replying to other threads and waiting for an answer

OKAY.  Official line appears to be that periods and commas go inside the quotation at all times (even single-quotes).  All of which is moot!  I should be using italics/underline for titles, not single-quotes!

Well, you learn something new every day.  In my case, two things.

"I seem to have somehow spent almost my entire savings over the last year without really realizing it," Kyon mutters, crossing his arms over his chest and eying me as though somehow I lost his money.

Something bugs me about this sentence, about the structure of everything after "Kyon mutters" and how the speed of everything seems fast, but I'm at a loss for what could fix it.

I think the phrase you're looking for is: "This sentence is awkward and stilted."

I do have a habit of frequently trying to cram too much into a single sentence.  Okay, I've revised it, so how's this work:

"I seem to have somehow spent almost my entire savings over the last year without really realizing it," Kyon mutters.  Not satisfied with giving me just his typical snark, he looks at me intently, crossing his arms over his chest as though somehow _I_ had lost his money.

Does that help?

Somehow, the space to one side of Kyon ripples and distorts, disgorging Yuki's figure. She's frozen in place, the knife in one hand suspended in a lethal stab towards his heart, as though pinned in place by his gesture.

A knife?  What knife?

Yeah, based on your comments and what Sars said in response to my earlier question, this whole segment can use some expansion and clarification.  Alright....

* more time passes while I revise ... man ... I'm so slow to respond ... >_<

"Oh," Kyon says suddenly, his hand rising, freezing as Yuki--

     Where the _hell_ did she come from!?

     Somehow, the space to one side of Kyon ripples and distorts, disgorging Yuki's figure.  She's frozen in place, a brutal-looking knife held in one hand, staring blankly at Kyon.  The weapon is currently suspended in a lethal stab towards Kyon's heart, as though pinned in place by his gesture.

     Why the hell is Yuki holding a knife?  Why would she try and attack Kyon?

     Mikuru shrieks in terror, charging to my side and wrapping her arms around me as she shivers nervously.  At the same time ... unless I'm seeing things ... something truly amazing _is_ happening, whatever the hell it is!

     How the hell did she even _appear_ like that in the _first_ place?

     "No," he groans, shaking his head.  "That....  Your bosses don't like this, huh?"

Hopefully this will clarify/step that out, though I'm willing to let it be a bit disjointed because Haruhi's not sure what's going on.

This draws Boring-kun's attention to me and he turns slowly around in his desk to look at me with the same expression as everyone else. As if to say, 'Was I for real?'

Did you use honorifics in the prologue and I just didn't realize it?

Except for with Mikuru and Koizumi, Haruhi usually doesn't.

But I may have forgotten.

* checks, revises

Yes; she should have.  Koizumi-kun and Mikuru-chan; this will be important later; thanks for catching that.  :x

I wonder where this could've come from.  Hm...

Haruhi's a troper? >.>

It doesn't take long to track down the girl that mentioned having a class with him last year -- a girl named Sakanaka. I capture her on the way to homeroom one day, surprising her by grabbing her shoulder and spinning her around in the hall.

I must wonder why Sakanaka and not, say, Kunikida?

Initial plan was to give Haruhi Yanagimoto as a mild antagonist (since Yanagimoto doesn't like Haruhi, according to the fanbook), and have Haruhi go after her for information because they went to East Middle together.  The whole 'it's easier to talk to someone you don't like than someone you don't know' thing.  But, Hal pointed out that Haruhi wouldn't adhere to that.

More importantly, Yanagimoto wouldn't know anything about Kyon anyway, and Sakanaka actually things Haruhi's kind of interesting and wants to be her friend (same source), so I reduced Yanagimoto's role to be even more mild, and have Haruhi actually be generally indifferent to it anyway.

I give Yanagimoto a flat stare. Is that really what they think an investigation means? Is that the only reason a girl would ask questions about a guy?

Ah, and here, more giving!

Haruhi: "I'm a giver by nature."
Kyon: "Oh, absolutely."
Haruhi: "Hah!  Even you agree?"
Kyon: "Of course!  You've given me penalties, lectures, grief, endless pain--"
Haruhi: "And my _powers_?"
Kyon: "...you got me there."

Thanks for pointing that out; you're right that it's a really weak word here.  I'll just find it with ctrl+f, and--

...oh.  I see what the problem is. >_>;;

Geeez.  Like, 12 instances of giving have been replaced with more varied alternatives. <_<;;

Oh, I get it.  I see what you're doing now.  Eheh.

It's ... actually entirely by coincidence that I ended up making Yanagimoto and Sakanaka Those Two Gals, but now that you point it out, they really are a neat counterpart.

...I think I'm going to try and have to use that.  Neatness.

Who look (instead of looks).

Oops; thanks for catching that.

They don't even actively investigate supernatural phenomena, they only discuss it!

Please! How can you consider yourself a research society if you don't actually research?

I don't think these lines need to be separate paragraphs.

Okay, yeah.  I do tend to break things out too much, so I'll go with that.

It's interesting how much importance Haruhi attaches to Kyon at this point.  I dare say it's necessary for the story, but I do wonder if our original Haruhi was the same.

My personal interpetation of Haruhi at the start of Melancholy is that she's incredibly frustrated and lonely.  She's isolated by her own choices, and too proud to admit it.  When Kyon reaches out to her, well, everything in that book is Haruhi being (non-violently) tsundere about aknowledging that she cares about him.

Here, because Haruhi doesn't have the same ability to dismiss things she doesn't care about (her homework/grades are something she has to actually spend effort on), I'm playing up her frustration a bit.

Overall, about the prologue: it felt a little bit like people were irritated and angry for no real reason.  Kyon being "out of money" sounds valid enough, but he walks in seemingly miffed about it rather than being "eh, whatever" until, say, he gets needled about the issue.

I'm thinking about this.  While that's valid, and I don't particularly like that it comes across that way, I'm not sure how to better lead into that without a much more substantial overhal of the start.

Hm.  Yeah, the first 50 of the 150 lines there are in the prologue, pretty much.

Bleah.  Every time I get steam on a new project, I get caught up in some stupid detail like this.

I've been struggling for a few days, but after how hard it was to write chapter one, I'm just ... not eager about having to rewrite the prologue, too.

I'll ... see if I can fix it over the coming weeks.  Ugh.

As far as the first chapter goes, I like that for the most part Haruhi is still Haruhi in terms of what she wants and how she thinks--that in inverting some things, you haven't gone overboard and completely changed how these people act.  It's just the circumstances that are subtly different, and even then, only slightly.  Once I realized what you were doing with Sakanaka and Yanagimoto, I understood a little better what was being done.  Would Haruhi have counterparts like this to Kyon's Taniguchi and Kunikida from the, er, original world?  Maybe not, but they're effective, and because of that, I didn't find myself questioning their roles very much.

The only other thing I should say is that, while I like this so far, one can wonder what happens next without having any clear idea of what really could happen.  Kyon seems basically no different despite the circumstances.  The space of what could possibly change seems very open-ended--in my opinion, a bit dangerously so, but that's nothing a next installment wouldn't address anyway, so I'm not that concerned.  It's interesting, and I hope Haruhi learns something, though I must admit, at this time, I have only a faint idea of what that might be.

Thanks for the feedback, Muprhid; sorry about the delay in replying.

I kind of liked the unintentional parallel between Taniguchi/Kunikida and Yanagimoto/Sakanaka.  Hopefully I can gather the willpower to tackle rewrite number seven of the accursed....  Bleah.

Anyway, I'll try and fix this enough to write more of it.  While Haruhi should learn something, ideally Sympathy is a two-way street, and it's not like Kyon was at his best when he started this whole thing off.

Thanks again!

[Brian]

Should I clarify this more in the story?  Or maybe just leave a better note explaining where it diverges?

I think that either option would be fine. I understand it now that you explained it but the chapter is still a bit vague.

Well, not every reader will have me to explain it to them.  I should fix the story so it's clearer. :p

Not forced, maybe a bit rushed. At some point I realized that I had just dropped the ball and I had to rewind a couple of paragraphs back and redo at a slower pace. It's not even that much about the pace itself as the quite sudden change of pace when a lot of stuff happens very fast.

Alrighty; I will revise.  Originally I was going to go with the note, but I have to do quite a bit more work to fix a flaw in the prologue anyway, so I'll actually write that out.  It'll be a better lead-in to show why Kyon's a bit on edge from the start (and Haruhi, to a lesser degree).

My problem with the original Haruhi stems from one of my ideals that states "with great power must come great humility", and slapping divine powers on a character that is anywhere below divinely benevolent is a guaranteed source of squick for me. But that's just one of my personal bugbears -.-

I think our views are pretty similar on that one.  When Haruhi grows as a character, and becomes ... well, at least _nicer_, and more concerned about her friends, those are always high points in the story for me.

Okay!  Thanks for the feedback; I'll try and get those revisions done shortly ... so I can get back to chapter two.

And, as always, sorry about the delay in replying. >_>;;

[Brian]

I've been staring at this chapter without progress for over a week.

I tacked that final scene on in about a minute and a half; I know it's weak, but the chapter as a whole has more issues, and I think I need those resolved before I can give the final scene a better close. -_-

All advice is appreciated, and please ... be brutal.

Edit: Added the attachment in the first post; forgot to point to it. >_>;;

[Arakawa]

Brutality, eh? Umm... yeah, honestly, with the character interaction as-is I guess this fic needs a heavy dose of clarity as to just what the hell is going on, much earlier on. I originally thought I was going to rant about that, but then I realized that revealing more details about the mechanism is one step up from trying to drown the problems in fan service. Since the point of the fic is character exploration, not the supernatural personality swap macguffin in and of itself, if you want to keep the mechanism by which everything is happening offscreen (and you probably have to, it's superficially Haruhi-PoV), you need to fundamentally change how these characters behave.

If I came across your fic even via the tvtropes recommendations, the way it's going so far, I'd probably make it two or three chapters in and then drop it in favor of a more rewarding read.

I won't do line-by-line because I'd say it needs work on how you handle the premise. (No, I actually like the basic premise. Yes, this is me being brutal.)

Spoiler: ShowHide

See, I get that it's Haruhi-PoV and follows her getting turned into... wait no, the later chapters are still Haruhi-PoV and it's Kyon getting turned into... okay, I don't even get that. Let's try again. The point seems to be that a Haruhi-shaped entity goes through the events of Novel One, in spite of being a Year1!Kyon-type human dishrag on the inside -- thus somewhat more balanced as a human being -- and while justifying her actions through Kyon-logic.

Going all the way back to the prologue, which is definitely Haruhi-PoV (the original Haruhi), we get a fairly nasty Haruhi blowup (fine with that), then all hell breaks loose, and Haruhi doesn't have the context to appreciate what is going on, but that's not what it feels like. It just feels like the narrator is blind in one eye. Or maybe Haruhi has been staring at her computer for so long that evening that her brain isn't working properly and she isn't fully reacting to what seems to be Yuki stabbing Kyon. I don't know, I just can't visualize what exactly is in front of Haruhi's eyes even when she's supposed to be looking right at it. That scene is also forgivable though, because it's over quickly and then we get a slightly tedious but still interesting first chapter (it snagged my interest for the same basic reasons as sars' prologue -- some careful character exploration without any distracting action or plot to get in the way).

Now moving on to this second chapter. Verdict: I think with the standards you've set for a sympathetic narrator it's going to be impossible to justify the blackmail scene, even if Mikuru does go along (her submissiveness is a divergence, correct?); I guess it's a great writing exercise to frustrate yourself with, but it makes for awful reading.

If I were writing this, I'd be tempted to diverge by letting Mikuru undress herself. (Reason why this comes to my mind: I had a vague genderflip fic idea kicking around where only one character is flipped, namely Kyon-->Kyonko. Kyonko is much more assertive about curbing some of Haruhi's excesses, not by saying "no", but by suggesting "yes, but it would be even better for everyone if...". Yes, it's a stupid idea right now, but it should give you the idea of the basic dynamic by which some of the more squicky interactions could be avoided.

It might be even better if Sympathy!Kyon also figures out some constructive way to improve on his character's flaws, making the fic much less of a waste of air.)

Again: your idea of sympathy seems to be that everything everyone does has a perfectly good reason, even as Novel 1 plays out almost exactly as before (thus far in your fic). You seem to be trying to write sympathetic characters, who completely fail to undertake sympathetic actions. And who are thus even less sympathetic than they were previously. Original Year1!Haruhi was an opaque entity who was oblivious to the existence of ordinary humans as human beings, and her actions are perfectly justified by the fact that she failed to give a damn about anyone's feelings. That was her primary flaw.

This Haruhi does all of the same horrible things, but in addition we get to listen to her whiny rationalizations ("but Kyon could've stopped me! but Mikuru doesn't resist when I molest her! etc etc").

EDIT: Kyon also has a bunch of problems, but the fact that we see Haruhi's PoV on him means you've already got a good explanation of what makes him unsympathetic, right there in the story.

Of course, the other alternative is returning to a PoV where Haruhi doesn't consider Mikuru's feelings, but that's clearly not what you're trying to do here.

This fic would be so much better if this were an avenue for Kyon and Haruhi to step into each other's shoes and realize that there were obvious things each could have done differently. Not that there were perfect inevitable reasons as to why Haruhi needed to do the blackmail scenario, which lends the whole thing a squicky Greek tragedy flavor where the Gods have decreed Oedipus to do a bunch of awful stuff and there was no way to avert it. If you're going for that effect -- that Novel 1 was inevitable and not just a product of character flaws that might not have existed -- at least make the horror intentional.

It's like... you know one of those arguments where each person refuses to admit the other was wrong? Your fic is like that, even with the swap. They're incredibly tedious to listen to. If you want that dynamic, I'd say have sympathetic-Haruhi change something significant first, then be unconsciously shocked by the idea that she might have done things wrong the first time around, and then put up some (ultimately futile) resistance to admitting even more of her faults.

Again, you say the fic is going to diverge. I'd say now (molesting Mikuru) would be a good point for it to do so.

Canon!Kyon also does things which are difficult to sympathize with e.g. physical violence in 'Sigh'. These make him more difficult to sympathize with, and create extra work for the reader.

In general, Mikuru and Yuki's behavior suggests that they know what happened, while Koizumi apparently doesn't. You even have the option of Mikuru knowing that this Haruhi is much more Kyon-like and can be pushed to accommodate Mikuru's point of view a little more, thus driving the divergence. That option would require you to figure out what Mikuru looks like when she's a shade more confident about the situation.

I would also suggest rethinking Koizumi. The guy opening his mouth and spouting something about video games was, to me, slightly confusing, because it has absolutely nothing to do with the original character, and I can't for the life of me see what it has to do with the swap. Maybe the espers are the only faction that has been reset due to their link to Haruhi?? (Maybe Koizumi and Kyon are having traits swapped too, as a sort of bonus?????) I don't know.

There, since you've invited me to be brutal, I can give my slightly-exaggerated honest opinion on this. (Whereas before I was just hoping you might work it out for yourself.) This fic doesn't piss me off, so much as fails to engage my interest. I don't have very much... sympathy for the specific target you seem to be trying to hit with it, and I think you should be aiming a little more to the right. Hope that didn't hurt too much, burn salve is on the second shelf from the top :-)

You've written interesting characters, and then proceeded to make them do things that are largely *in-character* for the original Kyon and Haruhi, but vehemently *out-of-character* for the adjusted ones.

If I've completely misconstrued what you're trying to do here, that fact in and of itself should be valuable feedback as well, actually.

[Brian]

Brutality, eh? Umm... yeah, honestly, with the character interaction as-is I guess this fic needs a heavy dose of clarity as to just what the hell is going on, much earlier on. I originally thought I was going to rant about that, but then I realized that revealing more details about the mechanism is one step up from trying to drown the problems in fan service. Since the point of the fic is character exploration, not the supernatural personality swap macguffin in and of itself, if you want to keep the mechanism by which everything is happening offscreen (and you probably have to, it's superficially Haruhi-PoV), you need to fundamentally change how these characters behave.

If I came across your fic even via the tvtropes recommendations, the way it's going so far, I'd probably make it two or three chapters in and then drop it in favor of a more rewarding read.

I somewhat asked for this, but am still a little saddened by this interaction:

Brian: "Please be brutal in your comments on chapter two."
Arakawa: "Your prologue sucks."
Brian: "...technically x is the best kind of x, yes."

Alright.  This is on me for taking notes and not actually revising the prologue.  I was really hoping to push through some writer's block on this one.

I won't do line-by-line because I'd say it needs work on how you handle the premise. (No, I actually like the basic premise. Yes, this is me being brutal.)

Very quickly: I'm pretty sure you clearly hate the premise, actually, since your assessment of what it even is (and what I'm trying to do) is about 361 degrees off from my intent.

I'll reply in more detail later as I'm about to miss an appointment, but this is a good marker for just how badly I've failed to tell this story so far. -_-

[sarsaparilla]

It looks like the fundamental problem with this second chapter is that Haruhi is way too conscious of the less flattering aspects of her behavior. The canon Haruhi of the time period could be (kind of) forgiven her persistent effort to check every possible symptom of Antisocial Personality Disorder as defined by DSM-IV because she was genuinely oblivious. She didn't rationalize away any moral issues because she wasn't aware of them in the first place. This Haruhi, however, knows that she's doing something that she shouldn't, but does it anyway, which doesn't really make her more sympathetic.

I can think of two different approaches to change the situation. Either remove all second thoughts and show how she gets utterly confused and despondent when people chide her for something that she thinks is a great idea, or at least a necessary idea for the given objective; or make the story diverge faster when, instead of succeeding, Haruhi's plans consistently backfire and land her into trouble (as she doesn't have unlimited wishes to make everything work out the way she wants any more), which can also be played for sympathy if she genuinely believes that she had good intentions. I don't know what is the target of the story, but one of those two might fit.

Beyond that, there is an interesting question about the exact nature of this swap, namely, what the other SOS members know about it. If the other brigade members retained their memories there might be some unfortunate implications waiting down the road ... I think.

There were some lower priority issues as well, but I guess that we'll get a chance to return to them once you've decided how you want to proceed from here.

Edit: Back from sauna, where I had some time to think about it.

While I don't know which angle you want to use, the two approaches that I mentioned could be more or less combined by playing up the woobie aspect. If you throw in a good bit of Yasumi and make her sooo genki that her feet barely touch the ground, then you can have situations where Haruhi is only able to think how fun, fun, fun everything will be once she manages to do this and that; once her actions backfire the reader can actually share the experience that from her own point of view it's Haruhi who's getting dog-kicked (but unlike Haruhi, also understand the flip side of the coin, which would, at least in my opinion, make her more sympathetic).

[Muphrid]

I have mixed feelings about this.  In general, stories that go through the formation of the brigade with the changes needed from a new premise don't tend to hold my attention.  That said, I think this can work.  What's important is how the character dynamics have changed for this scenario.

Look at Asahina:  Haruhi already suspects her of putting on an act to, say, get Kyon's attention.  That's certainly a valid expectation from the novels, but in this story, one has to wonder:  would Haruhi be someone Asahina and the others approach to help monitor Kyon?  Is there even a need to do that, given Kyon's attitude is one of mostly indifference and calm?  That's the thing.  Without Haruhi's impulsiveness to drive effects from her powers, is there a greater effort that Asahina, Koizumi, and Nagato need to exert?  I'm not sure if Haruhi can really sympathize with Kyon without being closely put in his shoes in that sense.  That said, Haruhi might never keep quiet about Kyon and his powers, but then, he might disbelieve her just as she did him.

Nagato is basically the same, and when Haruhi mentions Kyon to her, that's enough.  Koizumi is...different.  I'm not sure how Koizumi as a video game enthusiast makes him that much more interesting to Kyon, but I can see how that archetype would put Kyon at ease more than the one we know from canon.  The downside is that it threatens to make Koizumi feel so different, but I guess that emphasizes his chameleonic nature.