[Haruhi][Rewrite] Later

[Brian]

Thanks for your feedback, Sarsaparilla, I'm just sorry that I've already decided not to keep the current ending for this story. :(

Spoiler: ShowHide

So, when Kyon cuts the bonsai, the symbolic message I get is "Haruhi, you are the most damaged branch that must be cut out and thrown away so that you don't hinder the growth of other branches". The omnipotent entity that I see more as an abomination and a curse than a blessing and which is directly responsible for making such a mess out of Haruhi's life then complies and kills her. Regardless of what Megumi is, Haruhi is dead, her experiences are gone and she perishes in deceit, without gaining any insight on what brought her down, without receiving any closure, not even learning who the father of her child is ... especially this last point, the mere thought still makes me cry every time....

I can see the point of the story, and that the above is not the intended interpretation, but it still utterly trashes me on the emotional level.

I was trying to show that Haruhi had not ever gotten over the past as much as Kyon wanted -- the one who chose to cut the extra branch/believed Haruhi was flawed was her.

That the main reason Kyon himself doesn't see it coming.

That said, I must admit that I am completely baffled. Until the penultimate chapter (excluding the Epilogue) I thought that I had a rough understanding on what is going on, but the last chapter made me drop that pretense. I should probably start by enumerating things that I think I got:

• Kintaro is Kyon's and Tsuruya's son, and a reincarnation of Koizumi.
• Megumi is Kyon's and Haruhi's daughter and a reincarnation of Haruhi.
• Kinnosuke is a reincarnation of Kyon brought from another time by Asahina (big).
• Megumi and Kinnosuke will eventually become a couple.

Depending on how exactly one defines reincarnation here, I'm afraid that the situation may turn into squick for me, with wife husbandry being among the least worrisome options.

Yeah ... that's largely correct.  It's unfortunately clear that this doesn't work for anyone else.

That's okay.  I've gotten over the ending.

The list of things I don't understand is much longer (this is not meant as a rant, I'm genuinely puzzled to the extent that I'm not even sure what are the relevant questions). First some minor questions:

• Was the Organization disbanded after Koizumi's death, did Haruhi wish it away, or did it just become irrelevant?
• What is the agenda of Asahina / the future faction in all of this? Specifically, why did Asahina (small) leave so suddenly back then? Why doesn't she, or her older self, provide any explanations, and seem to actively force Kyon's hand on some issues? What is the point of bringing up the resentful poem?
• What is the ultimate agenda of IDSE? Did they indeed cause this whole scenario through delivering a particular piece of information to Koizumi, and if so, why? Will they keep meddling with humans, as they are still present long after Haruhi is gone?

I don't know if the Organization is still around.  Early drafts had Kyon talking to the girl who inhereted Koizumi's powers, but those scenes didn't work, so I moved them elsewhere (the current chapter seven/epilogue will be joining those other, poorly considered scenes).

Weh.  So many questions.  Um....  Mikuru wanted to talk to Kyon to find out why she thought he was mad at her and wrote that poem; her superiors just want to ensure that a pre-determined event takes place.  Mikuru left so suddenly because she had to leave and that felt as plausible as any other way it could be resolved, to me (yes, her superiors may not have thought things through, but then again, maybe they just didn't care about the details because history said things worked out after that).  Mikuru doesn't explain much because she's distracted ... this is still Mikuru.  I wasn't sure what the poem meant, at first -- now I realize it represents Kyon's resentment that he can be completely honest with Mikuru, when he has to keep lying to Haruhi (I'm ... thinking I _may_ still be able to use this in the rewrite).

The IDSE specifically wants to keep Haruhi from settling down enough that she's too satisfied to try and change/do anything.  Originally, Koizumi lied to Kyon because among my many other failings, I was bashing on Koizumi.  Kimidori was already a villain, and it made a good chance to turn more sympathy to Koizumi instead of resentment, while also pointing out that Kyon's not that abysmal.  And most likely the IDSE will keep trying to mess with them, except for the fact that Ryouko is actually looking out for Kyon (because he makes Yuki happy).

And then some pretty major ones:

• Did Haruhi's powers transfer over to Megumi, or do they otherwise keep interfering with events beyond Haruhi's death? Did the powers foresee the eventual meeting of Megumi and Kinnosuke, or indeed, made it happen? If so, isn't the root cause that doomed Kyon's and Haruhi's relationship still present? If not, isn't Haruhi's 'second chance' a leap of faith into darkness without even a hope to ever see whether something good eventually comes out of it?

Yes, Megumi inherets Haruhi's powers; the epilogue has a bit where Kyon offhandedly remarks to his daughter that he'll become super famous after his next book is published, and she believes him, much to his chagrin was a hint in that direction.  Haruhi was trusting in her friends, so Kinnosuke meeting with Megumi was due to Mikuru's [strike]help[/strike] interference, as one of the millions of steps paths on a path of good intentions that led this story to a depressing ruin.  I wouldn't like to think it was doomed.  Yes ... okay....

• Why does Kyon keep up the masquerade all the way to the end, effectively forcing the eventual outcome? What would happen if he broke it? Apparently, Kyon doesn't even tell Megumi the truth about herself and her mother, thus propagating the deceit right into the next generation. Doesn't this undermine the decision that seals Haruhi's fate if it's Kyon who cannot tell the truth, especially since the old factions are still around and they know about things?

Because the (unpallatable, unacceptable) theme of the story is that things don't always work out the way we want, and it's not really the fault of anyone there.  I see ... there's a lot that I cannot portray except as extremely malicious, it seems.  I failed to consider those viewpoints, and so, this work will never be uplifting to anyone who can consider those factors.

• Who are the girl and boy that Kyon bumps into on his way home? Megumi and Kinnosuke brought back in time by Asahina, Haruhi, or Megumi herself? And if so, why? None of the options that I can think of explains their behavior during the encounter.

They are Michikyu Kanae (a slider) and Kyon himself (from an alternate reality -- the universe depicted in Kyon: Big Damn Hero).  K:BDH!Kyon was apalled to see what had happened to his life (since that story's all about nakama and trusting in your friends completely), and the main significance of that scene applies to another story.

We can ignore it here, except as a cameo that distracted Ryouko (she was what K:BDH!Kyon/Kanae were running from) long enough for Mikuru to get through and take Kyon to the island.  Even if it is a pre-determined event, Ryouko's trying to look out for Yuki/Kyon.  In her own, creepy, yandere way.

• From which time was Kinnosuke pulled from? Who are his parents? Did they consent to their son being taken away? Did Kinnosuke consent to being permanently abducted and mind-wiped (apparently not, Asahina only refers to the promise he made to Kyon)? Did anybody ask Megumi's opinion on the whole thing before arranging it? (The idea of other people deciding such things on one's behalf squicks me badly. I would personally be pushed past the snapping point if I was forcibly introduced to somebody else with the intention of getting into any kind of relationship.)

I don't have a specific time, but Kunnosuke was rescued from unspecificed, unnamed atrocities.  While he wasn't given a chance to agree, the implication was meant to be that the alternative was effectively vaporization.  Er , no, but ... nothing was forced except for Kinnosuke there.  I don't think that romance is even implied in the epilogue between the two of them, except in the most abstract sense.  Quite obviously, Nagato wouldn't have wanted either of them doing things that didn't feel like their own choices to them.

• How did Asahina find Kyon's reincarnation, that wouldn't seem to be within the capabilities of the future faction? Doesn't the whole premise violate the first tenet of time travel as given in the books, the one that mandates that Asahina must return to her own time because she doesn't belong to Kyon's time frame?

She tracked down a far future instance of Ryouko and asked her for help (or her bosses did).  It would, except that Kinnosuke was removed from a point in history where no one would notice him vanishing because he would have died just at that moment (and according to history, still did).

Thus, at the moment I don't genuinely know what to make out of the story, as some of the most fundamental rationales and connections stay out of my reach.

Okay.  You're trying to be too nice and supportive of a flawed story. :)

I knew it didn't work going in, and that's why it's a rewrite.  It's become quite evident I can't really portray the ending I had originally conceieved in a way that anyone except for me finds uplifting (and your questions make me wonder if it even works for me at this point).

I will try and work on a new revision ... eh ... later (haha, unintentional irony).  The new take won't have room for an epilogue.  I have some notes I made myself on this from yesterday, I think....

Yes.  Here they are.  These are pretty rough, but give a general idea of what I'll be going for now:

Spoiler: ShowHide

   Most revisions can probably fit into chapter 7 alone.  The bonsai conversation need to address why Kyon doesn't leave the branch on.  Effectively, Kyon's answer is that the bonsai will take a very long time to heal with the limb left on, may not look as nice, and will require a lot more attention.

   Revise scene with Mikuru to expand on Kyon's resentment that he can be fully honest with her and not Haruhi, to better echo the ending scenes.

   Haruhi can come clean to Kyon during the picnic and say that she sometimes feels that she's that weak branch, and wonders if after everything, her daughter/son would be better off without her?  Kyon can immediately counter (somewhat horrified at her thought process) that it's not true, and anyway, Haruhi's not stunted/groomed enough to be compared to a bonsai.  He'll compare her to different plants before circling around and making his final resolve to tell her the truth, promising that he'll talk to her about something important that will prove she's more than the weakest branch -- but instead a powerful taproot (or something) -- after the baby's born.  He should think that he will ask Tsuruya and Nagato for permission, but that no matter what they actually say, he feels he has to tell her the truth (later, he can mention he has their support).

   Final scene is of Kyon and Haruhi together after she's given birth, before the child is named.  Kyon will accept Yasumi (haha, unnamed at that point, though) from a blue-haired nurse he can't bring himself to look at because he's so distracted by Haruhi and her child.  Kyon comes clean and tells Haruhi _everything_, because the deception is chewing away at him.  Haruhi's stunned by everything, but believes him, though she's really disconcerted by some things.  (She's not happy about Kyon being Kintaro's father and not marrying Tsuruya, but she lets it slide because Kyon says it would jeapordize Kintaro's inheretance/the fact that he's also the masked poet.)  When Haruhi gets angry and starts to complain, "Why did you lie to me!?"  He can say, "Because it was true at the time!  Just like when I first met you, you asked if we'd met before ... and you had met me, but I hadn't traveled back in time to call myself John Smith yet."  (Haruhi will listen to anything, then.)  When it's all finally done and over, Haruhi decides to name her baby Yasumi, claiming that Kyon said she 'made up' a little girl before, so now that they've made one together....  Ryouko will be super-subtle here, but after Yasumi is named, can hand her off to another attendent and remark, "I hope you two continue to enjoy your time together!"

This is what I'm moving forward with, because regardless of content, my vision is to create something that more than just I will enjoy.

[sarsaparilla]

I'm just sorry that I've already decided not to keep the current ending for this story. :(

I should probably feel relieved because I was again afraid of unduly affecting your decision, but if you made it before my barrage of questions then ... okay. In any case, you should never give too much weight to my opinions, as I represent a vanishingly small and unpopular point of view on all kinds of issues. >.>

Spoiler: ShowHide

If I may still return to some of the issues despite the fact that you are discarding that route....

I was trying to show that Haruhi had not ever gotten over the past as much as Kyon wanted -- the one who chose to cut the extra branch/believed Haruhi was flawed was her.

Yes, I got that, and as I said, I watched the whole story through Haruhi's eyes. So, I got essentially the same meaning out of the scene that Haruhi would've gotten, and it messed me badly, as well. I'm absolutely certain that Kyon didn't mean it that way, which makes it a Poor (Symbolic) Communication Kills (Literally!) moment.

Overall, I didn't see malice in any of the actions of the main characters. Tsuruya's husband, on the other hand....

They are Michikyu Kanae (a slider) and Kyon himself (from an alternate reality -- the universe depicted in Kyon: Big Damn Hero).

Well, that explains. No wonder then that I couldn't make any sense out of the whole scene (as I haven't even started with that juggernaut of a fan fiction yet)!

I don't think that romance is even implied in the epilogue between the two of them, except in the most abstract sense.

I must be misinterpreting this sentence at the beginning of the epilogue, then:

I lost the first great love of my life just as I met the second.

Kinnosuke was removed from a point in history where no one would notice him vanishing because he would have died just at that moment (and according to history, still did).

I was of the impression that the fundamental problem is on the receiving end, not the sending one, as Asahina described her presence in Kyon's time as an extra cel added retroactively to a cartoon, meaning that she's not truly, completely there in the way that the people of that time frame are, which then causes problems.

Then concerning the alternative ending, if you drop the reincarnation aspect then, beyond making it a completely different story, it breaks some things. Perhaps most notably, the Koizumi - Kintaro connection will be much harder to notice because it will be the only one of its kind. Personally, I don't have anything against reincarnation per se, and in some cases it may be a wonderful plot device for leaving unwanted baggage behind (as I believe was the intent here), but I can't figure out how it could be made to work flawlessly in this situation without some drastic changes to the basic structure of the story, and contrived contraptions to trace out the additional story paths that are needed for it.

I hope that my contribution has been more constructive than destructive.

[Brian]

I don't think we need spoiler tags anymore. >_>

I should probably feel relieved because I was again afraid of unduly affecting your decision, but if you made it before my barrage of questions then ... okay. In any case, you should never give too much weight to my opinions, as I represent a vanishingly small and unpopular point of view on all kinds of issues. >.>

I'm not entirely certain that's really true.  I actually almost positive that no one liked the ending.

I won't lie; your questions had an impact, but even then, I had decided that this ending just didn't work.  Mostly because as the one person who seemed to understand my intent the most (quite honestly, no other reader picked up on the clues I left around like you did)....  Admittedly, it does say something to me that you still couldn't see a positive meaning in what I was writing.

The questions you asked made me reanalyze my own reasons for wanting that ending originally, and I'll spare you the depressing realizations about myself and what that ending said about me -- I absolutely feel that the openly positive ending without denial is the way to go.

If I may still return to some of the issues despite the fact that you are discarding that route....

If you like; I somewhat hate the story that I wrote as opposed to the one I intended to write, (and will instead, now,) though.

Well, that explains. No wonder then that I couldn't make any sense out of the whole scene (as I haven't even started with that juggernaut of a fan fiction yet)!

Well, it's something of a 'for fun' story, which means I take it a bit less seriously, and it's absolutely a departure from the canon storyline in almost all ways....  But for me, it is very fun, if it fails in any way to be truly meaningful. >_>;

And of course, since I'm not as bound by realism, I can write unreasonably happy endings (ideally) for everyone that would never work in the real world, but still make sense (hopefully) in context....

I don't think that romance is even implied in the epilogue between the two of them, except in the most abstract sense.

I must be misinterpreting this sentence at the beginning of the epilogue, then:

I lost the first great love of my life just as I met the second.

No, I didn't explain myself correctly.  That's the abstract sense I was speaking of.

It doesn't say it has to be romantic love (quite obviously, that wasn't the kind of love she had for her father).  I guess it is strongly implied, but I was reaching for the idea that they were given a chance and it was something they wanted.

Spoiler: ShowHide

I was of the impression that the fundamental problem is on the receiving end, not the sending one, as Asahina described her presence in Kyon's time as an extra cel added retroactively to a cartoon, meaning that she's not truly, completely there in the way that the people of that time frame are, which then causes problems.

Explanation A: If I understand the comments from volume 11 correctly, that's not entirely true anyway, though.  I'm under the impression that Mikuru has to stay in the past to undo the damage caused by other time travelers (which is what Fujiwara is trying to 'rescue' her from, so she could come 'home').

In this case (and I had no way to bring it into narration; another mark against this whole thing), Mikuru was using Kinnosuke for similar purposes, which would (incidentally) grant him some protection from IDSE meddling, because he was now critical to the timestream.

-OR-

Explanation B: Oh, yeah, that's another glaring plot hole, isn't it?  Glad I'm scrapping this. >_<

Then concerning the alternative ending, if you drop the reincarnation aspect then, beyond making it a completely different story, it breaks some things. Perhaps most notably, the Koizumi - Kintaro connection will be much harder to notice because it will be the only one of its kind. Personally, I don't have anything against reincarnation per se, and in some cases it may be a wonderful plot device for leaving unwanted baggage behind (as I believe was the intent here), but I can't figure out how it could be made to work flawlessly in this situation without some drastic changes to the basic structure of the story, and contrived contraptions to trace out the additional story paths that are needed for it.

I don't think that's going to be a major issue.  While the Koizumi - Kintaro thing becomes incredibly understated, it's also (now) almost utterly irrelevant except as a nod that, yes, this author has finally learned to stop beating up on Koizumi.

I hope that my contribution has been more constructive than destructive.

Sometimes we have to till a field before it's ready to support new life.

Thanks again for your insight.  I think I'll need a while before I can finish this, but at least it will be a worthwhile story when I do.  Your help is vastly appreciated. :)

[Muphrid]

Kintaro as Koizumi's reincarnation?  Goodness, that never occurred to me.  Now I feel slow.  Given how much of that was running around, I should've seen it.

One thing I'd be concerned about with the proposed new ending is how much Kyon could possibly tell Haruhi in the span of a single scene while Asakura is there watching, too.  In addition (and this is something I worried about when mentioning how the elephant in the room, Haruhi's true nature and her powers and stuff, goes unnoticed) is that all those elements seem very non-central to the story so far.  Now, maybe the revision with Kyon realizing how he can share that with Asahina (who doesn't give everything she knows in return) contrasted against Haruhi will make that feel better.  At any rate, I guess I only want to warn that there's a big info dump risk--you surely already know that, so let me get off that aspect.  The role of Asakura in that scene...I guess it works.  Is she going to age herself up to blend in to the environment?

I have the nagging feeling that there should be some sort of distant finale epilogue after all that, but I can't fathom what it should be.  Hrm.

[Brian]

Kintaro as Koizumi's reincarnation?  Goodness, that never occurred to me.  Now I feel slow.  Given how much of that was running around, I should've seen it.

I didn't realize the implications the first time I wrote it, with Tsuruya's husband dying shortly before Koizumi.  The original idea was (I think) supposed to be that they had parallels in their lives while apart; Haruhi gets into a dysfunctional relationship, Kyon's on the periphery of an even worse one....  I think it got dropped, and thus the original implications were unintentional.

But once I realized it was there, I thought it was a nice way to not bash Koizumi as much.

One thing I'd be concerned about with the proposed new ending is how much Kyon could possibly tell Haruhi in the span of a single scene while Asakura is there watching, too.  In addition (and this is something I worried about when mentioning how the elephant in the room, Haruhi's true nature and her powers and stuff, goes unnoticed) is that all those elements seem very non-central to the story so far.  Now, maybe the revision with Kyon realizing how he can share that with Asahina (who doesn't give everything she knows in return) contrasted against Haruhi will make that feel better.  At any rate, I guess I only want to warn that there's a big info dump risk--you surely already know that, so let me get off that aspect.  The role of Asakura in that scene...I guess it works.  Is she going to age herself up to blend in to the environment?

Well, Haruhi's powers pass to Megumi Yasumi anyway.

The most graceful way around the infodump that I can conceive of is to generally imply instead of outright state -- and that will be done by Kyon actually writing her a story of what happened (a more concise poetic one than a reference to Kyon writing the original series), and the reader (since it's from Kyon's PoV), only needs to actually go through particular passages she remarks on aloud.

For Ryouko....  She's totally cheating and using a 'don't notice me' effect.  I can have Kyon lampshade that she seems familiar, remark on hair color and length, but his attention keeps wandering (and note that she wasn't present until after Yasumi was born, thus dodging Haruhi seeing her before the powers are transfered).

But ... how to make sure they know the powers are transfered?  Option a: They figure it out based on something that happens (potential high octane nightmare fuel on an infant with Haruhi's powers doing something obvious enough for them to realize it, yay).  Option b: Mikuru tells Kyon flat-out that it'll happen (I feel this cheapens his resolve to tell Haruhi 'no matter what' because it becomes his resolve to tell Haruhi 'when it's safe').  Option c: Don't bother revealing it until the epilogue.

I have the nagging feeling that there should be some sort of distant finale epilogue after all that, but I can't fathom what it should be.  Hrm.

*sigh* I couldn't come up with anything compelling either.

Yasumi in middle school, befriended by a middle-school de-aged Ryouko and led back in time to be the same Yasumi from novels 10/11, only pretending to be an incarnation of her mother's powers because she really, really wanted a chance to play with her parents when they were younger, based on their stories?  Presumably Yasumi would be raised knowing what her powers were, and responsible enough to be trusted with them even from a young age, considering who all is involved in raising her at this point.


Edit: Huuu.  I realize now that Kyon writing Haruhi a story (probably a very small book, vanity-published by Nagato), I can use my ancient, depreciated plot-point of Kyon using 'John Smith' as a pen-name!  And without turning it into some bizarre take on Poe's Telltale Heart.

[Muphrid]

Would Haruhi passing on those powers to Yasumi be intended on her part?  That is, in keeping with some idea she has about what she wants her child to be capable of, to make an even bigger mark (let's say) than she can?  Or something else?

I definitely think not revealing Yasumi's inheritance until the epilogue is the best idea.  Again, example scenario:  Yasumi's entering high school and wants to resurrect the SOS Brigade.  Maybe history repeats itself with interested parties already being around her, and at the end, she works some warping magic to make it all clear.

Going back to books 9-11 isn't bad, though.  If that, then they should point out how easy it is to make an anagram of Haruhi's name with Yasumi as part of the base (and create some more timey-wimey chaos in doing so).

I really like Kyon giving Haruhi a book as his way of gently getting her up to speed.  That is really, really amazing actually.

[Brian]

I want to play off Haruhi passing the powers on as something totally unexpected (Kyon being honestly willing to deal with her completely powered, or else the meaning of the sequence loses impact).  For Haruhi's part ... yeah, I think passing her powers on will be her lingering resentment over things not working the way she expected giving way to the idea that it doesn't need to be perfect to be good.  So, she won't have seen it coming, but she'll accept it, and probably come to embrace her and Kyon with an empowered child more than one of the pair having power that the other is somewhat afraid of (since it does seem in many ways that that power was the main difficulty between them).

Hm.  An unexpected solution to the issue of the power coming between them.  Seal it in a handy child.

Yasumi reflecting on her odd parents (cripes, how is that even going to ... ugh ... remodel the apartments into a single home?  I guess Haruhi would probably be cool with that, once she understands the relationship between Kyon and Yuki.  Yuki absolutely wouldn't mind...).  Erg.

Huhu....  That's going to be ... tricky to write and have come across well. >.>

Anyway.  The only real issue is that if a middle-school aged Yasumi is the one that goes back....  Haha ... borrowing her mother's old uniform and hair-pin.

Okay.  Two options, then.

One: Apply the plot to middle-school, instead of highschool.  No reason why the same plot can't just be applied at an earlier age, especially if Yasumi is better adjusted than Haruhi was at that same time, courtesy of her family.  "I used to think my parents were the most amazing people in the world ... and then I met other peoples' parents, and realized it was totally true!"  This does probably mean she doesn't need a romantic side-plot, but that's just as liable to be true in high-school, and lets me use Ryouko to foreshadow/hint that Yasumi will go back, and Ryouko will be with her to observe and help her out (probably, no, really).

Two: If I place it at her highschool entrance, then she's reflecting on what she's already done (and how happy she is to have her very own uniform instead of borrowing her mother's).  Assembling members for another SOS Brigade would probably be okay, except, she already knows about everything (and her powers, and has traveled to the past, rescued her parents from death (what an awesome kid!), gotten to see her dad's room as a regular highschool teenager instead of a legendary poet, chastized him for keeping pictures of that Mikuru girl (Seriously, doesn't he know how that's going to turn out?) on the computer, she got to play with her mother at full-strength without anyone hurt....

Well, after all of that, the best reason she'd really have to gather other supernaturals is because she thinks they're 'stuck' watching her, and they'd have more fun if she rounded them up and helped them with their tasks so they could focus on having fun together.

I could do the first one in first person PoV, Yasumi's view.  I think the second would be better from Kyon's PoV as Yasumi tells him what she's been up to on her first week of high school.  Probably can end with some amusing note of him putting 1 and 1 together and asking to meet 'the token normal boy' in her club, who Yasumi will not have mentioned previously.

Hmm.  I think I like one more, as it's more subtle.  But I admit, the potential of Yasumi going through her actions in the novels in the context of looking out for her parents in a retrospective is kind of cute, especially as things click into place for Kyon/Haruhi and they realize that Haruhi's half joke was fully prophetic.


I'm really glad to hear the book idea works for you.  I think it fits the scene, and can see him sitting anxiously at her side as she flips through it, growing more and more incredulous, pausing only to confirm a few details here and there....  Yeah, I think that scene will work.  Excellent.

[Brian]

Hal has suggested the alternative of Haruhi's powers just disappearing, since otherwise I'm heading into stupidity by mood whiplash.

Guess I'll go with that, though that eliminates the epilogue's supernatural aspects, so I guess it'll just be regular-girl Yasumi reflecting on her awesome parents.

This does echo back to Mr. Cobb pointing out that I can't write good, serious endings, and they're all crappy and whimsical.

<Yukari-sama> You could work it in that they figure out that it's gone for whatever reason, and then focus on Kyon and Haruhi raising Yasumi to have that same appreciation for the unusual that Haruhi had - without having to worry about the power getting in the way or making everything too easy.

So.  That.

Blrg.

[Halbarad]

Well, to summarize, the main concern I have is that the proposed endings do stand things on their head a little too much - one of the strongest features of the original story is the cohesive tone that it maintained throughout - a focus on missed chances and lost opportunities.

The suggestion I had was that at Yasumi's birth, Haruhi's power disappears entirely, making that the lost opportunity, even while another opens up with Yasumi herself. She'd be raised by her parents to hopefully develop the same fascination with the unusual and extraordinary that her mother had, with a bit more of her father's grounding in reality.

It could be set up that Yasumi could come into the power independently, too, to maintain the supernatural aspects later on; she's been raised on the stories of what happened with her parents when they were younger, never quite sure how much to believe, and unknown to her the power comes back to give -her- the opportunity, unknown to everyone else.

I'm fully aware that my thoughts on this don't necessarily reflect what a lot of others have said on the story, though, so if the tone shift that was proposed earlier is more what other folks want to see, it won't break my heart to see this idea left on the side. I just think that this has a bit more possibility to keep some of the melancholic feel of the overall story going, as opposed to handing Yasumi a beautiful life in a fait accompli. She should certainly have that opportunity, but as something she earns on her own merits, grounded in her parents' guidance.

[Brian]

Alright.  I'll try and get through this as quickly as possible.

[Jason_Miao]

I keep telling myself that I'm not going to read a Haruhi fic because I never bothered to finish reading the books, then Bri keeps writing them so I give in and read another one.

Because I can't really claim to be familiar, I won't even try to comment on the fic itself.  But there was one comment that Bri made that I'm going to respond to.  In spoiler tags, because it's somewhat off topic, and could be construed as unkind.

Spoiler: ShowHide

Well, either you are particularly perceptive, or the majority of people who read my story just aren't as able to pick up the clues as you are. :)

I'm actually quite pleased you caught those implications; the inability of the Henry Cobbs of the world to get what I was trying to do with this story depressed me enough that I pulled it down during the first re-write attempt (shamefully, this is the second re-write, but perhaps the third write will be the charm!)  That and the fact that even though I have implied what you've picked up, I've (mostly) managed to avoid stating it.  >.>'

Cobb was active on the FFML a bit earlier before I started, which was, itself, awhile before you joined.  We had this strange pattern going for awhile, where I'd write some spamfic I'd manage to blow through in an hour or two, get a few public accolades, then he'd reply with a post "Oh hey, you all seem to have forgotten I wrote a fic like this first" and post a copy or link.  It would typically be some fic that was similar in tangential ways "Akane is literally a witch" or somesuch, while ignoring every concept that actually made the fic work.

I can't imagine he was trying to latch onto my fame or anything, since I didn't have any.  I pretty much have to conclude that he had no ability to actually perceive literary nuance.

People can always change, of course, and if he's still actively writing, I can only hope he's gotten better at it.  But I still wouldn't take down a fic because Henry J Cobb can't understand some aspect of it - I rather suspect it has less to do with your writing than him in particular.

[Brian]

People can always change, of course, and if he's still actively writing, I can only hope he's gotten better at it.  But I still wouldn't take down a fic because Henry J Cobb can't understand some aspect of it - I rather suspect it has less to do with your writing than him in particular.

He consistently fails to ever portray Haruhi as anything other than the worst sort of girl-shaped monster, and I call his portrayal of Kyon 'Victim Prime'.

[Jason_Miao]

He consistently fails to ever portray Haruhi as anything other than the worst sort of girl-shaped monster, and I call his portrayal of Kyon 'Victim Prime'.

Oh.  Haruhi = fannon Akane.  Okay, I have him pegged now.  New Cobb, similar to old Cobb.

So, why are you taking what he says seriously?

[Brian]

Apologies, Miao, that was undeserved.  I failed to isolate in time.  That's entirely on me.

Ah, realistically, I shouldn't have taken Cobb's commentary seriously, but this story happens to be very critical to me in a lot of ways that are very difficult to explain.  Heh, talk about putting too much of yourself into a story....

To give you an executive summary, Cobb's ignorance ticked me off, and ... this was some months ago.  Maybe three?  Four?  I'm too calm to check the logs right now.  At any rate, I was taking the story a bit too seriously, and his commentary was a bit too MSTish for my tastes, and light on useful content.

It wasn't that I cared as much as I decided that I'd rather not post it to the FFML, if it meant getting feedback from him.  Because his commentary was pretty much useless for my purposes.  The only story he's ever commented on in a way that was helpful to me was Downfall (which suggests to me now that there are probably some se-heeeee-rious flaws with that story if he approved of it, in retrospect).  Thankfully he simply stopped commenting after the first chapter.

But I digress.



I've settled down a bit and considered the epilogue issue from a few more angles and looked for the ideal compromise.  It suits me quite nicely, lets me turn the story into something I will enjoy, and I think no one else should have any major objections.

I just won't write one.

My reasons for this are actually very straightforward.  For personal reasons, I really want to avoid a 'downer' vibe, now.  Going too far the other direction, well, for all my dislike of Cobb, I find that in retrospect, my stories do tend to either have endings that are somewhat vague (but optimistic) or specific, but way too over-the-top in terms of optimism.  And for that, this story becomes too specific, if we try the epilogue.  This is the best way to avoid ruining the tone the story has maintained so far.

So, I'll end with chapter seven revised to leave it on an uplifting note and let readers draw their own conclusions.

This leaves a lot of questions unanswered, but really, do they have to fit in the scope of the story?  I've thought about it and realized ... not really.

Anyone else will be welcome to write their own epilogues.

[Brian]

Alrighty.  Here it is, the revised ending.

I'm happy with this thematically, but I think it could use some polish.

(Edit: Helps when I remember the attachment, eh?)

The original chapter 7 and epilogue are still here for anyone who needs an 'extra bummer' version of the story.  I'm thinking this will be the official version, however.