[Haruhi] K:BDH chapter 50

[Muphrid]

Right, they're some from other multiverse, okay.  Still not sure what other words might fit; "function" still strikes me as odd, but since we're talking about something that really stretches the vocabulary, maybe it says something that "function" is the word used.

[Arakawa]

It does--  Social or political maneuvering.

Right, but I've only ever seen "manoeuvre" (without an object), or at best "manoeuvre someone into doing something else", never just "manoeuvre stuff". Then again "manoeuvre stuff around" makes perfect sense to me, so it must be I'm wrong somewhere...

_{Aside: finally giving up and concluding that OS X Lion's "Canadian" spelling autocorrection is irredeemably bad and not worth constantly fighting with. Will be off figuring out how to disable it.}

Anyhow, you sound more sure about usage of "manouevre" than I am.

brain Windex:

I think it's just mild squick?

I'm going to stand by 'Brain Windex' being the preferred chemical for getting rid of mild cases of squick.

The last one unfortunately reminded me of a much dumber joke in Tea of Sagittarius, which also centered around Haruhi's estimate of Kyon's junk.

I ... don't recall that.  There must have been more translating done.  Maybe I'll take another look at it.

Don't follow it, so I can't say if there has been. Saw it a while ago, so probably not.

Maybe I was just referring to it way too obliquely:

Spoiler: ShowHide

Kyonko wonders why she's flat chested whereas the gender-bent version of Koizumi... isn't, to put it mildly. The joke being that when Haruhi switched their genders she based it off her impression of how big... well, you get the idea.

In general, I have very mixed feelings about Tea of Sagittarius. Where it's good it's pretty good; where it's awful it's irredeemably awful; at some points it managed to somewhat mind-bendingly be both at the same time.

I think the solution may be a compromise between these two; I agree that Arakawa pointed out it does make Kanae look shallow and less likable.  But Hal makes a good point, too.  I think if I shift it as per Arakawa's suggestion so that they're (for example) characters of various anime she's watched that just happen to look _unreasonably like_ Kyon/Koizumi, then that mitigates some of it.  And instead of being totally PWP, it's a thinly veiled proxy (which is not ... a whole lot better).

Right. I think adding that extra layer of indirection should do the trick. (Indirection is what already does the trick of not grossing us out, given that we don't get to see the full contents of the doujin anyhow.)

This also gives Haruhi something specific to work on in recognizing what kinds of issues Kanae has been avoiding (because that's the nature of her game).  Does this sound workable?

Pretty much. It boils down to, either Kanae doesn't display the same kinds of issues, or someone in the Brigade has to recognize that this is a serious problem for her. Or the best of both worlds -- with the anime characters resembling Brigade members, you make the PWP something she does without acknowledging it to herself (so she doesn't look cynically shallow and produce immediate reader whiplash), while it's still enough of an issue to keep the Covert Pervert tropy and give the character something to work with in terms of development.

I didn't remember that line from the movie.  I guess that popularized it, but it's a much older term than that. >_>

Right. Lucas and Spielberg just accomplished the feat of making it sound kind of stupid. Actually... if you weren't aware that the line can instantly remind some people of Kingdom of The Crystal Skull... that might actually have been worth pointing out.

It mostly just comes out as unintended Kuyou-humour (where she says something completely seriously but it comes out like a joke), much like the "bring cookies" thing ^_^

[Grahf]

Something like Melancholy Princess -- THAT is cause for brain bleach (if you're not familiar with this work -- do not seek to become so, unless NTR is your thing.  Was dared to read it -- so ... much ... hate...).

Wow. I'm sorry, I am so sorry.

/stops channelling 10

Er, I don't know what I can point out that hasn't been already. Please forgive me if any of this comes off as strange or unnecessary.

- A thought about the opening scene. I'm not sure how it would generally go in Japan, but the fact that Kunikida wasn't the slightest bit suspicious or even off-put about some random guy coming out of nowhere lending a friendly ear and then even taking him for supper seems a bit strange. I know that Kunikida isn't really in his right mind over Sasaki right now, but wouldn't that raise a few eyebrows?

Slightly surprisingly to Haruhi, Ryouko offered a silent nod of agreement from Kyon's coat pocket. "I liked 'sonic screwdriver,'" Kyon sighed, not looking that upset about it.

- Slightly surprisingly seems somewhat awkward even though it's not wrong.

-

Spoiler: ShowHide

During the conversation about the damage to the Combine's dimension Haruhi mentions using her powers. This is likely just confusion on my part but I know that Haruhi knows that her powers include the telekinesis, attendant orbs, flight, and also stuff that has to be routed through Yuki for permission, but doesn't thinking that her powers could fix an entire universe come close to her realizing her full suite of powers?

Well, those are the only thing that I can really contribute that I don't believe I've seen brought up already. Sorry if they aren't helpful.

[Brian]

Anyhow, you sound more sure about usage of "manouevre" than I am.

I could still be wrong--  It doesn't look bad or jarring to me, though. >_>;;

In general, I have very mixed feelings about Tea of Sagittarius. Where it's good it's pretty good; where it's awful it's irredeemably awful; at some points it managed to somewhat mind-bendingly be both at the same time.

Yeah....  Major problem is that it seems to be one edge of a great big story and never gets around to going anywhere.

At least, that was my impression reading through it initially.

This also gives Haruhi something specific to work on in recognizing what kinds of issues Kanae has been avoiding (because that's the nature of her game).  Does this sound workable?

Pretty much. It boils down to, either Kanae doesn't display the same kinds of issues, or someone in the Brigade has to recognize that this is a serious problem for her. Or the best of both worlds -- with the anime characters resembling Brigade members, you make the PWP something she does without acknowledging it to herself (so she doesn't look cynically shallow and produce immediate reader whiplash), while it's still enough of an issue to keep the Covert Pervert tropy and give the character something to work with in terms of development.

Okay--  Haruhi's reaction is toned down a little, and she goes over it in slightly more detail as something that really worries her about Kanae in her thoughts on the walk home (also ties into her solution really well for next chapter).

Right. Lucas and Spielberg just accomplished the feat of making it sound kind of stupid. Actually... if you weren't aware that the line can instantly remind some people of Kingdom of The Crystal Skull... that might actually have been worth pointing out.

It mostly just comes out as unintended Kuyou-humour (where she says something completely seriously but it comes out like a joke), much like the "bring cookies" thing ^_^

In that case, I'll leave it as is.  I like Kuyou being a quirky, fun character like that. :)

Thanks again, Arakawa. :D

[Brian]

Wow. I'm sorry, I am so sorry.

...significant source of my anti-Koizumi bias, incidentally. ._.

- A thought about the opening scene. I'm not sure how it would generally go in Japan, but the fact that Kunikida wasn't the slightest bit suspicious or even off-put about some random guy coming out of nowhere lending a friendly ear and then even taking him for supper seems a bit strange. I know that Kunikida isn't really in his right mind over Sasaki right now, but wouldn't that raise a few eyebrows?

It should--  I've reworked the scene a little; Hiko is (now) very good at working with people.  Aand ... I now realize that Hiko is actually the same Hiko in AltMHF.  Huh.

Anyway--  Yes, it's unusual, but bad judgement and bad guy manipulations will carry this one forward. >_>

Spoiler: ShowHide

During the conversation about the damage to the Combine's dimension Haruhi mentions using her powers. This is likely just confusion on my part but I know that Haruhi knows that her powers include the telekinesis, attendant orbs, flight, and also stuff that has to be routed through Yuki for permission, but doesn't thinking that her powers could fix an entire universe come close to her realizing her full suite of powers?

It falls into that last category -- though, Yuki isn't permission, that's Kyon.  Yuki just helps her actually do it; Haruhi mentioned at one point that she needed Yuki's help to accomplish things outside of her other powersets.  Haruhi's understanding of how those parts of her powers work hasn't been brought on screen yet--

Hmm!  I'll have it come up soon so I can actually have that better explained.  Yeah, that's well past due. <_<

Well, those are the only thing that I can really contribute that I don't believe I've seen brought up already. Sorry if they aren't helpful.

Nope, that was good--  Thanks for the commentary! :D

[Specular]

Probably it's kind of late for even more comments:

Spoiler: ShowHide

Author successfully evades: "What kind of physical arrangement do they even HAVE for that, anyway?!"

(Though, this time around, with Nonoko there....)

*deadpan humor mode on*
The great minds behind the Harem Genre have pondered about this difficult problem in the past and their recommended sleeping arrangement for x≤4, where x represents the number of girls, is as it follows from figure 1. Solutions for x>4 have been proposed for particular cases but as of now (January, 2012), there is no proof or counterproof of the existence of a generalized approach. One of these particular cases assumes that one of the girls is significantly lighter and smaller than the rest (or at least she has the means to become so), allowing to the often so called "Token Loli" to sleep on top of the "Male Lead" without breaking the spatial plausibility of the arrangement.
*deadpan humor mode off*

We tropers actually considered the creative use of gravity manipulation and/or telekinesis for the occasion.

About Nonoko, I don't think she would think that there is something inappropriate in such a scene, for example she didn't react too much to Kanae's first Bedmate Reveal. She is like the people who actually see the nine dolphins in that (in)famous ambiguous optical illusion.

So, Tsuruya, Kanae, Mikuru, Koizumi, with Yuki on the opposite side of the table and three free seats at her side.  No good?

No problem, really. I just tend to pay attention to silly details like that out of habit. Making good use of the available space in common areas is frequently a plus.

I wonder if there will be a reaction to the rumors of the engagement from the girls who thought of trying to confess to Kyon.

Possibly, but I don't see any of the girls at the school being willing to raise a ruckus with Tsuruya over it.

Tsuruya: "He's mine, nyoro~!  Back off, or I'll laughs at you~!  >:3"

I was thinking about the underhanded kind of reaction, like spreading rumors of a "shotgun wedding" or even nastier things.

Yeah ... the other Kuyou was actually glad to take the exit she saw.  The Combine are [not nice people].

Kind of potential mood whiplash -- there was some feedback elsewhere about the Brigade seeming to be indifferent to the damage done to the Combine universe and the (potentially) innocent lives there.  This was to address that and expand on the fate of other!Kuyou more definitively.

I feared so. :(

About the Brigade apparent indifference, I must admit that I tend to forget that the characters are teenagers. I just assumed that they knew what was at stake in their situation and they avoided to address the moral questions that they don't currently have a way to solve while defending themselves and the world from the Combine.


Re: Kunikida

I don't think Kunikida's actions were that strange during the first scene of the chapter. I surmised he thought that as long as he didn't reveal any specific information about others, like names or places ("Kyon" is a nickname after all), it shouldn't be a problem. Besides, the people who could listen to his problems in this situation, namely Kyon and Taniguchi, are either involved or potentially unsympathetic.


Re: Kanae

Kanae's rather perverse side was hinted in several occasions. I didn't think any less of her after reading the scene about the nature of her drawings. However, that is just my personal opinion. If there is a good chance that most of the readers will get an indelible bad opinion of the character, I wholeheartedly agree with toning down the implications of the scene as it was suggested.

[Empyrean]

The Combine are [not nice people].

So naturally they are opposed by the SOS Brigade, who are nice people.

[Brian]

Probably it's kind of late for even more comments:

Of course not. :)

Spoiler: ShowHide

About Nonoko, I don't think she would think that there is something inappropriate in such a scene, for example she didn't react too much to Kanae's first Bedmate Reveal. She is like the people who actually see the nine dolphins in that (in)famous ambiguous optical illusion.

Interesting.  I'd never seen that one before.

It was more that Nonoko would be occupying prime Kyon-related real-estate and the other girls would be somewhat limited in terms of what 'fun' they could have in front of her.

I was thinking about the underhanded kind of reaction, like spreading rumors of a "shotgun wedding" or even nastier things.

Oooh.  But it's not a wedding, only an engagement.

I suppose someone could still make an argument/insinuation that Kyon and Tsuruya were caught in something inappropriate and forced to become engaged, but the typical view from Japanese teenagers on sex isn't actually that severe (as I understand it).

If there were rumors of previous boyfriends, that'd be one thing, but there's not a lot of territory to work with.  The biggest slander that could really be scraped up against Tsuruya over that  is that she 'stole Haruhi's boyfriend,' but given that Haruhi's right there and insisting it's not a big deal, that won't go far.  Plus, it's pretty hypocritical for someone trying to steal Kyon from Tsuruya to use that tack. <.<

...anyway Yanagimoto and Sakanaka are all over that angle, as far as trying to rally support for Haruhi. :p

I feared so. :(

Oh--  I think I see....

[spoiler]Haruhi: "Wait, wait, wait--  I'm trying not to think about this for a few chapters, but we killed someone?"
Kuyou:  "Not killed, just destroyed."
Haruhi:  D:
Kuyou:  "I was taught how to retain observations, and I observed other!Kuyou."
Haruhi:  O_ò?
Kuyou:  "Her story is actually not yet over."
Haruhi:  :D

Kanae's rather perverse side was hinted in several occasions. I didn't think any less of her after reading the scene about the nature of her drawings. However, that is just my personal opinion. If there is a good chance that most of the readers will get an indelible bad opinion of the character, I wholeheartedly agree with toning down the implications of the scene as it was suggested.

Well, only mildly turning them down -- and then using them as a gateway to legitimate character growth.
[/spoiler]

Thanks again for the comments. :)

[Specular]

Spoiler: ShowHide

Oh--  I think I see....

O_O

:)

[Bactharad]

I found this story on ff.net and decided to drop by and comment since you left the site by the time I got around to reading it.  I have to admit, the standards of both stories and reviews there are a little low.  I apologize for the necro but the topic is 10th from the top anyway so I'm not sure it can be called that.  There were a few things that seemed a little off about this story.  I didn't like how easily Kyon joined up with Tsuruya's group in the first arc when he was quick to turn Koizumi down when he was offered a position in the Organization in the 7th book. You could handwave it as "Time Travel-I can do no wrong" but it seems a bit OOC.  It also seemed like Mikuru jumped from being her old self to acting like her older counterpart right around the beach chapter.  You did build up to this somewhat but it still felt abrupt.  It's better than most fics but still not up to your standard.   The only other 'issue' with your story is that it's written in third person.  This isn't a problem since this is a story that needs to be told in third person due to all of the characters but Haruhi without Kyon's narration is kind of like watching "Goodbye Mr Despair" without the meta jokes on the blackboard.  That said, I've never seen any fanfic author actually nail Kyon's voice including you so it might be just as well that you decided to focus on everyone's characterization.  Anyway, here are some things that caught my attention in the story.

Ch 4
Mikuru seems to be unusually relaxed in yuki's room considering that her older self was still nervous around her at the end of disappearance.  Is this because she's not connected to the ISDE anymore?

Ch 8

"I hope that doesn't mean anything"

Heh, looks like Kyon's been hanging around Koizumi a bit too long :)

Ch 9

"What exactly was he going to say to her next Sunday, anyway?

In chapter 8 Kyon mentions Mikuru hearing something from him last Sunday.  Are you referring to this here?

Ch 10

"after all, as Tsuruya's trial, she could only rely on herself and the chosen guardian."

Should this be "as this was Tsuruya's trial"?

"negative!" she said, shaking her head quickly.  "Too burikko...and if-"

Nice; Classic Haruhi. 

Ch 12

" you can't have my gun of my badge"

Heh

Ch 15
It's nice to have fanservice in the traditional sense for once.

Ch 18

"You must put aside your self doubt and overcome your worry that if you did not have him alone, he would not choose you."

The wording here is incredibly awkward and I don't think you meant to put "alone" in there.

Ch 23

"Why did it feel so familiar"     (Mikuru referring to Trope-tan here)

Why would she find it odd?

Ch 26

"For that object Haruhi already gives her permission"

"Object" sounds odd here, you might want to cut it or say something like "on that note".

"lighting on the roof at a run"

Did you mean to say "landing" or something?

Ch 28

"I think it might suits you"

Mikuru doesn't add s at the end of words.  Also, Tsuruya's accent seems inconsistent even beyond dropping it when she gets stressed.

Ch 33

"Interviews had been arranged with every single members of the sumiyoshi-rengo, as well as both of the teenagers."

Member?

Ch 34

"...to allow a time traveler change history!?"

Did you mean so say "traveler to change"?

Ch 35

"Phone, she demanded"..."letting it levitate towards her"

An almost identical scene occurs earlier in the chapter.

Ch 36

Kyon blinked. "Part of me wants to say that your reaction to this is incredibly unreasonable," he noted, before slapping his own forehead with the heel of his palm. "Rather, only you would look at something so incredibly unreasonable, and choose to be so reasonable about it."

Nice callback to the first closed space incident.

"U...um," she began, furrowing her brow in concentration. What would her parents think? Being honest, she hadn't paid much attention to them ... as much as parents were a variable feature of her life, many small details and habits changed.

Did you mean to say variable here or stable?

The puns were also great but they become a bit sketchy in light of the most recent chapter.

Ch 37

"He's already caused enough damage to my yet!"

Where in the world did you find a copy of Continuum?!

There are some interesting parallels between the fight with Wataru and the fight in the volume 10 preview.  Is that intentional?

"Once you're part of the Combine you'll be my pet! Just like the others!"

Do the sliders have more than one Kuyou?

"If I hear word one that she's not happy"

Did you mean "one word"?

Ch 41

"That's funny Asakura-san because you haven't."

Somehow this line sounds familiar

Ch 43
Did you choose takahashi's name just for that joke?!?

Ch 45

Thanks to the other entity that -- like Kyon -- traversed time, Kuyou had learned all of that, and equally important things, too. While her counterpart, the small blue-haired entity spun memetics and phased light-sculptures representing different views of various data, Kuyou had learned how to bake cookies.

I think this perfectly captures the Haruhi series as a whole.

Ch 47

While he was pinned, one of the robots marched near Kuyou inspecting her curiously, as the other moved to Kyon's side, unlimbering another pair of limbs -- these tipped with wicked blades. Ignoring the robot nearest her, and staring at him with a combined look of confusion and ... hope?

The dark-haired girl extended a hand towards him almost expectantly, even a dozen meters away.

The last sentence in the first paragraph seems like it should be part of the second.  As it is, it's not clear that Kuyou is the one looking at Kyon.

Ch 48

"You're sure getting a lot of mileage out of that symbol I made you write,"

Heh

Ch 50

"Likewise, I hope if we end up needing to share body heat like that--"
"No."
"I simply--"
"Stop."
"Well, if--"
"Koizumi!"
                      TEXT
"Eh?" Kyon managed. He opened his mouth, then bit something back, looking thoughtful. After a minute he sighed, admitting, "I'd like to say to tell you not to draw these, but if you've.... How many...." He shook his head, glancing at her stack of sketchbooks. "Actually-- Your penalty is no more of these until you're done helping Asahina-san with her project. Is that alright?"

Considering his reaction to Koizumi, Kyon seems more likely to get rid of the books or stop her rather than encouraging her.  It also seems slightly OOC for Kanae to be drawing her friends that way.  I got the feeling that you were trying to make a fujoshi parody but trying to do that with fanfiction is as impossible as trying to parody a fundamentalist on Youtube.  You're better off trying to come at it from a different angle such as looking at why she's doing this.

Anyway, this was a fun read even if your characters start out two dimensional before you get around to building on that base.  If Yen Press published this for 50 cents a chapter I'd buy it.