[Ranma] Identity (book 2 and beyond)

[Muphrid]

Identity is post-manga Ranma trilogy in progress--book one is already completed, and at this point, I'm starting the second.  I'm a little hesitant about this, considering that this means there's a lot of backstory would take a long time for any commenter to digest, but I felt like my experience with The Coin was too good not to solicit feedback and have this story improved as well.

So, to mitigate the backstory problem, I've included a spoiling primer to book one below.  The story can be found in full on its FFN page or in the attached archive at the end of the post.

Spoiler: ShowHide

Recap: Identity book one - Tribe of the Ki Sorcerers

At the end of the Ranma manga, our eponymous hero, Ranma Saotome, slew the Phoenix King Saffron at Jusenkyo, hoping to save Akane from certain death.  As he cried over her inanimate body, he admitted his love for her, at least to himself, and lo, Akane awoke.  In celebration, the Tendo and Saotome families planned a great wedding, which was spoiled by Shampoo, Ukyo, and others.  Identity begins in the aftermath of those events, with Ranma driven to return to Jusenkyo, thinking his cure necessary to prove his manhood and worth.  There, he's met by a party of Ki Sorcerers, and after a tense battle, they take him captive.

The reasons are complex.  The Sorcerers of Qinghai live a secluded life west of Jusenkyo.  From the battle with Saffron, their isolated existence was disturbed.  The Sorcerers have a Jusenkyo spring of their own, and they use this spring to change their genders, suppressing sexual desires and feelings of affection.  To exert ultimate control over the dangerous magics they wield, they use a Sieve--a single person who drains the village of strong emotions and magic, lest those powers erupt in a cataclysm.  The battle with Saffron has sated the Sieve, and it is village tradition that the person who did this deed take his place.  Coerced into helping the Sorcerers, Ranma quickly points them to Saffron, unwilling to tell them he killed the Phoenix King, lest their anger with him prove a danger.

This is the sage for which the first book of Identity unfolds, for as Akane, Shampoo, and Ukyo journey from Tokyo to save Ranma, he works to subvert his captors' and earn freedom on his own, learning the Sorcerers' magic to aid him.  Tribe of the Ki Sorcerers concludes with Ranma having escaped the Sorcerers' clutches after a climactic battle between them and the Amazons, but this freedom comes with a catch:  the Sorcerer captain and advisor, Kohl, has aided their escape for a purpose--to stay with Ranma, to get the Amazons off their doorstep, for now, it is understood that Saffron wasn't meant to be the next Sieve.  It was the one who slew him instead.  The Sorcerers have let Ranma go, but they still mean to break him.  That is where we begin with book two.


Cast of Characters

A quick description of new characters and how events have changed the cast we know from the manga.

The Nerima party

Ranma Saotome:  A misunderstanding with Akane and Ukyo drove Ranma back to Jusenkyo, and in Sorcerer captivity, he's put his aptitude for learning other techniques to good use.  Ranma acquires an array of ice magic abilities, materializing deadly spikes from the air and explosive orbs.

Akane Tendo:  Feeling massive guilt over her hand in Ranma's disappearance, Akane has admitted her love for him and joins the party to China to stage a rescue.

Ukyo Kuonji:  While in China, Ukyo's shop is run by her father, a now-successful chef based out of Osaka.  In pursuing Ranma, she hopes to earn back some respect from her father as well.

Shampoo:  Shampoo's status within her tribe is complicated by Ranma's disappearance.  In particular, while Ranma's captured she can return freely to the Amazon village and can exert tribal right to raise an army to save him, but when he is free, she must return with him or not at all.

Cologne:  Twenty years ago, Cologne was one of the three Speakers of the Elder Council, and to smooth over relations between the Amazons and the Sorcerers, she offered her granddaughter, Ceruse, to marry a Sorcerer prince.  Ceruse and her husband disappeared, however, sparking a bitter war.  To this day, Cologne hopes to uncover the truth behind Ceruse's disappearance and pursues this mystery with great abandon.


The Sorcerers

Making their village west of Jusenkyo, the Sorcerers protect themselves in a "Maze," an illusion that confuses anyone without affinity for magic, preventing their entrance to the village--or, in Ranma's case, preventing escape as well.  Ritually, new babies are cursed in their sacred spring, changing their genders.  They grow up believing that this is imperative, for otherwise their affinity for magic would lead to acts of catastrophic power.  The spring dulls their magic potential somewhat, providing control instead, but the defenders of the village, the Sorcerer Guard, do their duty in their original bodies, using magic to its fullest extent.  In this, they maintain dual lives--an identity while in the Guard, with a new name and responsibility, and an old life as a common villager.

Sindoor:  The leader of the Sorcerers, often addressed as "Lady."  Little is known about her except that she practices magic very sparingly but is utterly formidable when she does.  As the Amazons invade the Sorcerer village again, she repels them with extreme force--an attack that reduces all in its cone of effect to ash.

Kohl/Wuya:  Kohl is Sindoor's advisor publicly, but in secret, he is also the Captain of the Guard, Wuya.  Wuya is his birth body, but he identifies himself as Kohl always.  He has long had Sindoor's favor, for reasons he knows not.  He is gruff and stoic but not without pride.  His reasons for leading stem from the past.  As a trainee in the Guard, he became involved with another in his class, and their closeness is what sated the previous Sieve.  While Kohl was allowed to continue his training, the other--Tilaka--was broken in spirit and became the new Sieve.  Kohl seeks to have Tilaka replaced so that his friend won't have to bear that responsibility again.

Tilaka:  Having been Sieve for several years, Tilaka is strongly driven by seeking out powerful emotions to fill the void within her.  She was born male and spent all her time as Sieve that way, but she considers herself female in keeping with tribal tradition.


The Amazons

They called themselves the Tribe of the River Warriors until disastrous defeat at the hands of the Sorcerers killed many of their men.  Now, branding themselves Women Heroes, their hatred for the Sorcerers is strong.

The Council of Elders:  The Council is a small body of twelve representatives, all from powerful families.  To maintain a separation between persuasive influence and real power, the Council is divided in two parts--the Silent Nine, who may not speak in open chambers but hold all power to vote, and the Three Speakers, who direct and control debate but can never vote.  Cologne was once Second Speaker, a position she relinquished after insisting that the Sorcerer War continue.  Today, the Speaker positions are filled by Surma, a former student of Cologne's; Thanaka, a populist, hawkish individual; and Bindi, the First Speaker, who stubbornly seeks a peaceful solution.

Finally, some remarks about what I submit for criticism here: the prelude and first act of chapter eight.  I'll refrain from saying too much to pollute the responses.  For those unfamiliar with the story and who feel the primer above is inadequate to follow what happens here, I can recommend some parts to read that may illuminate what's referenced:

For 8.0: 5.1, 5.2, 6.0
For 8.1: 4.1, 6.8, 7.5, 7.6

I think that should do.  Again, under the circumstances, I can only imagine it will be somewhat challenging to give feedback for a story that's already this long, so I'm very grateful for the help.

Again, the story so far is attached in a compressed tar archive or here on FFN.  The archive also contains 8.0 and 8.1, which are separately attached below as well for convenience, as well as a framed index page for navigation of the whole story.

Edit: 8.4 revision 3 is now also attached.

[Jason_Miao]

Would you like comments other chapters, or just the parts of chapter 8 that you've posted?  I finished reading chapter 1 and wrote down a few notes, then reread your post.  If you'd just like chapter 8 commented upon, I can skip to the backstory parts you've cited.

[Muphrid]

You're welcome to give commentary on whatever you wish, though I'd be hesitant to make big, sweeping changes.  I have made some minor revisions on the earlier chapters to fix some matters of fact (which are unaltered in the FFN version but fixed in the one uploaded here).  Reading chapter one and comparing it against what's written of eight could give some perspective, though, considering chapter one was written over two years ago.

[Jason_Miao]

This is taking a bit long for me to read, so I thought I'd post the notes I've been taking.

I had a number for chapter 1, but lost them in an unexpected computer reset.  It involved a repeated word, an unexpected tense change, and some other minor grammar, but I don't remember where.  Some other stylistic chapter 1 issues, but I don't remember what they were either.

Also, if I'm seriously commenting on a work, I'll read it over 3 times: once for first impressions, twice to see what pieces I missed from the first time, and thrice for polish.  But since you've mentioned that you're probably not going to make significant changes, I've just read everything once.  It's possible that the comments I've made are not proper with the context of a later development.


2a0
> The stone of the palace walls damped not these energies.

The "damped not" prose was sufficiently purple that I thought it would be a good idea to point it out.


I'm also not sure what purpose the first paragraph serves, beyond being imagery.  I could see it being "Lady Sindoor is a badass sorceress", but the rest of this part already establishes that she's the big cheese.

2a1

> "Who do these people think they are, magicians?" said Ranma. "Take anyone on earth they please, why don't they."  I don't see where the "magicians" guess comes in.  It's not like Ranma has a  long history of self-proclaimed magicians specifically doing things to annoy him (Gosunkugi does, but so does everyone else who isn't a magician).

"Who do these people think they are?" without modifier is also a perfectly good line of indignation.

2a2

> "The warriors of the Sorcerer Guard wear black," said Kohl. "The palace attendants wear maroon."

> "I guess that's smart—not having your best warriors wear red shirts."

> "Pardon?"

> "Nothing."

As a manga reader, I find this funny.  But I think he wore a red shirt in the anime, so you may get a few comments regarding that.

> Say what he would of the Sorcerers' hospitality, Ranma had to give credit for their magic. Folks back home—like Mousse and Ryōga—used what magic they knew as tricks, one-off weapons meant to distract more than assert victory. Ranma himself was no exception there.

Uh...he blew up two mountains.  That sounds pretty assertive of victory in my book, with or without magic.

> We could've struck back, decimated their village, but the Prince would have none of it

Decimation is, technically, the practice of diciplining a Roman legion that routed by randomly executing 1 of every 10 soldiers.  People use the term interchangably of "devastation" these days, but it's not strictly proper.

> "So you'll forgive me if, when mention Saffron comes to me, I assume the culprit is him?"

Grammar seems off here.

2a4

> Ranma stole their daggers, slashing both.

He slashed what?  Slashed their throats, I could maybe see, but if that's what you meant, you should say that.


3a3

> "Your eyes, your hair—no, this will not do," said Cologne. "I'll make some brown-weed tea, then. A few sips on the flight should let you sleep even through a tornado."

Do they not have liquid bans in flights out of Japan?

Also, hah for use of the tea.  That feels like something out of the manga.

> (chapter end)

Idle thought.  Shampoo is going to die for Ranma.  I guess future chapters will tell if I'm right or not.

4a2

> (SoD-Akane)
Nice touch.

The sentience is a bit creepy, if you think about it, but I suppose that probably isn't where you are going to take the fic.

4a6
> "Well fine." Ranma poked back with the same motion. "Who are you?"

> She blinked for a moment but soon caught on. "Marula."

Doesn't really sound Chinese.  Then again, neither does Mousse.

4a7
> (A note to those at home: damage from floods, earthquakes, household pets, and the Shishi Hokōdan are not often covered by your home insurance. Contact your broker for more information.)

This is funny.  It also totally fucks up the tension you built into this scene.

Generally, I liked your combat scenes, but this is from the perspective of someone who can't write fighting scenes worth a damn, so take that with a grain of salt.

[Muphrid]

Yeah, this is why I didn't really want to expect anyone to read the whole thing in short order; it's a bit...lengthy.  Longer than planned?  I'm not so sure because I planned seven chapters and I got seven chapters.  It's just that they're all longer than I thought they'd be going in.  Some of that's the structure and what I ended up trying to accomplish with each act.

And now, of course, I'm doing something slightly different for book two.  Structure evolves, I guess.

2a0
> The stone of the palace walls damped not these energies.

The "damped not" prose was sufficiently purple that I thought it would be a good idea to point it out.


I'm also not sure what purpose the first paragraph serves, beyond being imagery.  I could see it being "Lady Sindoor is a badass sorceress", but the rest of this part already establishes that she's the big cheese.

You think maybe "could not block" instead?

Regarding the first paragraph:  it's intended to be an explanation for how this magic works or is felt.  If that's not what comes across, I may consider how to make that more clear.

3a3

> "Your eyes, your hair—no, this will not do," said Cologne. "I'll make some brown-weed tea, then. A few sips on the flight should let you sleep even through a tornado."

Do they not have liquid bans in flights out of Japan?

Also, hah for use of the tea.  That feels like something out of the manga.

I guess the question is whether they had bans in 1988 or so.  I don't really know the answer to that question, but I do try to write this piece as taking place strictly in that general timeframe around 1988-1990 (i.e. no cell phones, no widespread computers).  Admittedly, outside of the no cell phones part, the timeframe is sufficiently vague not to matter.

4a6
> "Well fine." Ranma poked back with the same motion. "Who are you?"

> She blinked for a moment but soon caught on. "Marula."

Doesn't really sound Chinese.  Then again, neither does Mousse.

Yeah, I went for theme naming over sensible Chinese names.  And Marula's a character I haven't really gotten to use to her fullest yet.

4a7
> (A note to those at home: damage from floods, earthquakes, household pets, and the Shishi Hokōdan are not often covered by your home insurance. Contact your broker for more information.)

This is funny.  It also totally fucks up the tension you built into this scene.

You're right about how it breaks the rhythm of the scene.  As it is, I'd have to remove a reference to this gag in 5.4 also if I wanted to kill it.

But it's a fun, fun line.  So, I'm not sure what to do about that.


Most of these other bits seem straightforward enough to change, or I'm glad to see that certain gags or references have gone over well (at least in one person's eyes).  As a matter of fact, you brought up several tidbits that are, uh, particularly relevant, but I should probably say no more about that.

Thanks again.

[Jason_Miao]

Yeah, this is why I didn't really want to expect anyone to read the whole thing in short order; it's a bit...lengthy.  Longer than planned?  I'm not so sure because I planned seven chapters and I got seven chapters.  It's just that they're all longer than I thought they'd be going in.  Some of that's the structure and what I ended up trying to accomplish with each act.

It's fine, really.  I'd planned to have read through most of it by last weekend, but have been generally busy.

And hey, a fic in a series with which I'm familiar!  So, no burden, really.

And now, of course, I'm doing something slightly different for book two.  Structure evolves, I guess.

You'd be a cruddy writer if your style didn't evolve.

2a0
> The stone of the palace walls damped not these energies.

The "damped not" prose was sufficiently purple that I thought it would be a good idea to point it out.

I'm also not sure what purpose the first paragraph serves, beyond being imagery.  I could see it being "Lady Sindoor is a badass sorceress", but the rest of this part already establishes that she's the big cheese.

You think maybe "could not block" instead?

Sure, that will work.  Or "didn't damp", "could not fully suppress", etc. 

If you wanted to, you could also throw in a quick adjective about the walls themselves (dense, strong, thick) which would both infer to the reader why he should expect the walls to do something with the energies, and also set an impression of impenetrability early on to show why Ranma's use of the exploding point technique is surprising to the Sorcerers.

Regarding the first paragraph:  it's intended to be an explanation for how this magic works or is felt.  If that's not what comes across, I may consider how to make that more clear.

I get that it explains the feel of magic.  I meant my comment in terms of story objectives - I don't get why the feel of magic is being explained right then.  Maybe when Ranma is figuring out how to use magic to beat the Sorcerors at their own game, describing the sensations of magic makes sense.  Or perhaps when Ranma meets Lady Sindoor for the time, and is walking around the energies, so he describes what he's feeling.

3a3

> "Your eyes, your hair—no, this will not do," said Cologne. "I'll make some brown-weed tea, then. A few sips on the flight should let you sleep even through a tornado."

Do they not have liquid bans in flights out of Japan?

Also, hah for use of the tea.  That feels like something out of the manga.

I guess the question is whether they had bans in 1988 or so.  I don't really know the answer to that question, but I do try to write this piece as taking place strictly in that general timeframe around 1988-1990 (i.e. no cell phones, no widespread computers).  Admittedly, outside of the no cell phones part, the timeframe is sufficiently vague not to matter.

You're right on the timeframe and liquid bans (that happened after 9-11).  If this is 88-90, then in a later chapter, you used the term "wireless" in reference to the Guide's phone, and I don't recall that term being used widely back then.

4a7
> (A note to those at home: damage from floods, earthquakes, household pets, and the Shishi Hokōdan are not often covered by your home insurance. Contact your broker for more information.)

This is funny.  It also totally fucks up the tension you built into this scene.

You're right about how it breaks the rhythm of the scene.  As it is, I'd have to remove a reference to this gag in 5.4 also if I wanted to kill it.

But it's a fun, fun line.  So, I'm not sure what to do about that.

I've used endnotes to throw in lines that would otherwise break scene flow.  Some people hate seeing endnote markers too, but I think those are usually because some writers would throw as many Japanese terms into their fic as they could find to make their fic more "authentic".  Of course, the fics where I used endnotes tended to be topical off-the-wall vignettes, so they might seem out of place in a story like this.  But if you are referencing this gag later on, endnotes might be the best compromise solution.

I think that if it were up to me, I'd probably end up removing the gag - in the middle of a intense battle, it sticks out too much.  If you were writing the typical Ranma-style battles where your Saucerors cast spells by using saucers full of sauces while sitting in UFOS, then it would be fine, but that not how you've been writing this.  Of course, I also haven't read chapter 5 yet, so maybe it's worth taking a tension hit now for a better payoff down the road.

Most of these other bits seem straightforward enough to change, or I'm glad to see that certain gags or references have gone over well (at least in one person's eyes).  As a matter of fact, you brought up several tidbits that are, uh, particularly relevant, but I should probably say no more about that.

The gags are a nice touch, IMO - Ranma 1/2 was fun because it was slapstick masquerading as a martial arts drama.  No reason not to have fun with them here.

Since I'm not prereading for you, the less you tell me, the better.  I purposely haven't read the summary you put behind the spoiler tags for that reason.

[Muphrid]

Yeah, I think maybe moving the insurance line there to an endnote may be the best thing.  It'll still be reasonably funny there, even if it doesn't have quite the same impact.

Honestly, part of why I'm attached to the paragraph starting 2.0 is because I thought starting with "On cold stone a woman knelt..." would be too sudden a start.  But that could just be fixed with a different opening paragraph instead.  I'll have to ruminate on that one.

[Muphrid]

8.2's first revision is now attached to the first post as well.

[Jason_Miao]

5a1

> And, for one day, among shelves of scrolls and parchments a girl sat, reading at a table by the window.

This either needs a comma after parchments, or reordering to "sat a girl".  I recommend the former, since the latter is passive tense.

> Ranma narrowed his eyes. "You guys's soup sucks."

guys'

> "Where? What does it matter? Or better yet, give me a good reason why I should tell you."

> "There are many stories about the sacred spring," she said. "Legends, they are, of how the spring came to be infused with magic. The popular version tells of a prince and a foreign princess, who married to bring peace between the tribes. The princess, though kind and powerful in her own right, had no love for her husband. She strayed. She lay with the prince's brother and took him into her bed, but even so, the prince's brother grew jealous. The stories differ as to why. For the tile of Lord that the elder brother would wield when their mother passed? Or for the woman whom the younger could touch and lie with yet never call a wife? Who can say. No one even knows how long ago that was."

Seems awfully chatty for this transition, but gets the job done.  You're not likely to overhaul the dialogue for this chapter, and it's not really all that important anyway, but thought I'd bring it up, just in case.

> "Orders get confused all the time. A group of four can be told they'll be relieved and shouldn't wait for the next watch."

THIS is a bit more.  Why is a rope maker going to such trouble to accomodate Ranma's curiosity?  This goes far beyond simple chatting, s/he wasn't particularly annoyed such that there's something to prove to Ranma, and there's no reason to support an "outsider"

The conversation in the next scene shows that there's an resistance going on, but a hint, very brief, that it exists either earlier or during the conversation might help.

> Let no one mistake:

Odd phrasing.

> Though Ranma couldn't read Chinese, he knew the large set of characters well enough from grade school.

> After all, every Japanese kid his age should know how to count.

This works for me, since I'm aware that Chinese and Japanese use the same characters for numbers.  I wonder if this would make sense to someone unfamiliar with the written languages.

> The truth of his heart stalled him there, for he too had been afraid of passion before. Nay, it still frightened him to that day, but unlike these Sorcerers, he would bear the risk. Someone had to be told about these people, and if she refused to hear him, so be it.

> He opened his fist, and the dust fell into the fire, erupting in a burst of flame.

> Akane...

As much as I've been pointing out how much of the text of this chapter didn't work for me, it is also worth mentioning that this does.

Also, if more post Vol. 38 stories worked this much to get Ranma to plausibly admit that he has feelings for Akane, I would probably be willing read more stories about the pairing.

> "Ranma's battle with Saffron may have restored water to the central well, but Saffron still lives as a child, unable to bathe the people in heat and light. Such misfortune must still grate on them."

Didn't vol 38 mention that they bought heaters?  I might be misremembering.

> "Such a shame. We've walked a great ways, yet we've spoken more of the tribe's than ourselves."

remove "'s"

5a4

> "There is no dishonor in refusing."

Perhaps replace dishonor with shame?  It's not bad as it is, but since the basic setting takes place in Japan, notorious for its concern with honor, and since the current setting is in China, the change might help differentiate between cultures.

> "I don't understand it," said Ryōga. "Every time I looked back at my hand, the Old Maid was there. Why on earth are you all so good at this game?"

> Ukyō plucked the lone joker from his hand, adding it to the deck and shuffling. "Akane-chan and I had some amount of practice. Though I admit, that doesn't explain Konatsu."

Ha.

> And then there was the matter of the point getting lodged in the rock.

That's either a really good spear, or a really crappy wall.


General item: Keema is romanized in most fics as Kiima.  I'm not sure which is closer to the actual name.

[Muphrid]

Seems awfully chatty for this transition, but gets the job done.  You're not likely to overhaul the dialogue for this chapter, and it's not really all that important anyway, but thought I'd bring it up, just in case.

Yeah, I think that just needs some smoothing and spacing out, so Ranma's not taking in big chunks of dialogue at once from this stranger.

THIS is a bit more.  Why is a rope maker going to such trouble to accomodate Ranma's curiosity?  This goes far beyond simple chatting, s/he wasn't particularly annoyed such that there's something to prove to Ranma, and there's no reason to support an "outsider"

You think so, huh?  I'd hoped the line where Ranma says this rope-maker could get shot for what she's saying would make it clear he knows she's up to something against the system, but I can see how it could be made more clear.

This works for me, since I'm aware that Chinese and Japanese use the same characters for numbers.  I wonder if this would make sense to someone unfamiliar with the written languages.

Yeah, it can't hurt to make more explicit that the numerals are the same.

General item: Keema is romanized in most fics as Kiima.  I'm not sure which is closer to the actual name.

Yeah, I went with the spelling consistent with theme naming:  keema, korma, and masala all come from Indian cuisine, and I felt like the Japanese transliteration of these words (put back into English) obscured that.

Thanks again.

[Jason_Miao]

You think so, huh?  I'd hoped the line where Ranma says this rope-maker could get shot for what she's saying would make it clear he knows she's up to something against the system, but I can see how it could be made more clear.

I see what you were going for, but when I read it, it just seemed like the ropemaker spontaneously switched from passive-hostile to assistance, without any good reason.  Probably much of it was that, up until this point, there really hasn't been any sort of indication of growing resistance.  Sure, there's one person who has a personal stake in the system being overthrown, but is still following Sindoor's orders anyway.  So, the "aha, there's a resistance movement running around somewhere" didn't really click until the rope-maker said "Hi!  I'm part of the resistance!"

Yeah, I went with the spelling consistent with theme naming:  keema, korma, and masala all come from Indian cuisine, and I felt like the Japanese transliteration of these words (put back into English) obscured that.

Did not know that.

And, thinking about it, that makes me hungry.


-Edit-
Read through ch 6.  Nothing much to say, except (1) generally exciting! (2) Shampoo's 'maces' are called chui in mandarin, if you're at all interested.  Calling them 'maces' works fine as well, though (and at least you're not calling them bonbori - I wonder who came up with that term, anyway?) (3) Not sure if you've done this intentionally, but you've swapped Ranma's and Akane's traditional roles.  Ranma is continually kidnapped by the villains for their own selfish purposes, and Akane has to learn to be stronger to rescue.  Which is fun.

[Jason_Miao]

7a2

> The elder Surma left her teacher there, in the camp where Keema died that day, and Cologne stood her ground, unwilling to follow. She took out the photo of Ceruse and held it to the light, so the sun's glare and the paper's shadow blocked out all the color, all the life in the ink that remained.

When did the original Sorceror/River marriage take place?

Cologne is, by her word, 300 years old.  Cameras were invented in ~1840.  Per wikipedia, the opium wars were around that time, so cameras could have made it to China around or after that - however, since they are a minority tribe, it would take longer.

Anyway, just an idle thought.  This is the sort of detail that 99% of people won't even notice, and I'm not even sure if it's really a cause for concern.

7a4

> "Xiu stabbed you?"

> A scoff. "No. He was too cowardly to do that himself."

There's a question.  Why *did* they need Akane, in particular, to stab captain?  Xiu could have done it himself.  From latter events, he's clearly willing to attack colleagues.

7a5

> The Sieve caught her wrist, yet she cried out, all the same. "Oh, for the love of the gods!" she said, bawling, thrashing. "It's sticking right through him! Let me pull it out!"

> "Please, stop!" said Tilaka. "Please, you must calm yourself for a moment. He'll only bleed that way. Have faith. The captain will help." He looked to Wuya. "Won't you, captain?"

I've noticed that throughout your fic, your characters have a habit of not removing large spikes from people.

7a6

> This ain't like Saffron; this ain't like Herb. They were powerful, they were tough, but you could outsmart them. You could beat them because they didn't think fast. He looked to the sun, but that golden orb cast shadows from the ash on the tower grounds. My gods. How do you outsmart this?

More powerful than Saffron?  That's pretty damn broken.

Keep in mind that both Saffron and Herb, when combined with Ranma, each blew up a mountain.

So, Sindoor is slinging around that kind of power in the heart of her own Sanctuary, amidst her own people?  That sounds pretty damned reckless to me.

8a0

> The rope-maker nodded. "Light the fire, then."

Didn't Xiu light the rope-maker on fire?

8a1

> At that, Kohl doused himself with hot water from a nearby pot. Wielding a staff from a fallen Sorcerer, the captain herself stood before them instead, repelling her would-be jailers with a shockwave of concussive force

Observation: When the captain switches, you switch pronouns to match the body.  When Ranma switches, you always use the male pronoun.

> "I'm sure that would suit Grandfather fine as well," he said. "He always had strange habits. I remember, as a young boy, I caught him trying on Grandmother's kimono. After that, he always brought me sweets from Nagano as a price for my continued cooperation. I was all too happy to oblige."

Perhaps "continued silence" would be a better phrase (unless Soun really is that way, but one would think he would not be so cavalier in admitting it).


General thoughts on chapter 8:

So, on one hand, if you removed the magic lesson, 8.0-1 this is a typical post-Saffron date setup.  These usually annoy me, since they're mostly same-ish, "Ranma loves Akane, you damned Ranma-other-fiancee fans" without much to it.  This didn't annoy me like those, because your entirety of book 1 changes the character dynamic.

The Kohl/Wuya aspect is itself, interesting, since the Captain's presence in Japan proper means that there's exposure to people who express emotions to each other (and this is interesting in itself, since emotional reserve is a stereotype of the Japanese people.  That, and honor-suicide at the drop of a hat.)  So, you could take this in the direction where, Ranma and Akane's relationship don't fall to Sindoor's expectations but the Captain has been subverted by living amongst people who can express themselves.  Or, if you're really ambitious, the captain isn't subverted...but the Guard who followed, is.

Shampoo's necklace makes its return.  I remember it, since I was thinking when I read it that it was a very good setup for Shampoo as a tragic heroine.  I'd almost forgotten about the necklace, and had I not commented on it earlier, I might have actually done so.  I don't know if it works better like this, or whether it would be better to try to work them into her description (nothing too obvious, but a mention once or twice to keep it in the back of the reader's mind).  It's hard to say, without knowing what you'll be doing with that aspect of the story.  While I remember it, I am not sure if other readers would.

Ukyou was overshadowed in book 1.  Shampoo took on a personal sacrifice that is still hanging over her head, Akane was captured twice and had to stab someone in the back to save Ranma, Ukyou made cooking analogies.  I don't think that you've shortchanged her perspective, since Mousse and Ryouga had less, but it didn't feel like she changed events much.  When she'd made the "leek" comment, I'd somewhat expected you to pull a leek/leak pun and flood the Sorcerers to cut off their mobility, since she would have then made a meaningful contribution to the war effort.  I think she was useful for developing the group dynamic, but didn't really stand out as a fiancee who is threatening Akane in terms of usefulness/sacrifice/whatever.  Takahashi, herself, didn't do as much with Ukyou as some others, so there's no real shame in this;  still, something to keep in mind, depending on whatever you were planning for Ukyou in your later chapters/acts.

To sum up the previous two paragraphs, after the initial council debate where Cologne exposes the three speakers, the focus was on Akane.  Which is generally okay, given where the story has gone so far.  Whether it matters depends on where you're planning on for future events in Nerima, so I'll have to wait until you've written them to tell.

[Muphrid]

Read through ch 6.  Nothing much to say, except (1) generally exciting! (2) Shampoo's 'maces' are called chui in mandarin, if you're at all interested.  Calling them 'maces' works fine as well, though (and at least you're not calling them bonbori - I wonder who came up with that term, anyway?) (3) Not sure if you've done this intentionally, but you've swapped Ranma's and Akane's traditional roles.  Ranma is continually kidnapped by the villains for their own selfish purposes, and Akane has to learn to be stronger to rescue.  Which is fun.

Yeah, the maces should be called chui most of the time; I'd hoped to only say "maces" for variety, I think.  Swapping traditional roles was a fun part of the book one plot; I feel like it got people other than Ranma more involved than they otherwise would've been.

When did the original Sorceror/River marriage take place?

Cologne is, by her word, 300 years old.  Cameras were invented in ~1840.  Per wikipedia, the opium wars were around that time, so cameras could have made it to China around or after that - however, since they are a minority tribe, it would take longer.

Anyway, just an idle thought.  This is the sort of detail that 99% of people won't even notice, and I'm not even sure if it's really a cause for concern.

To be honest, I was going for Cologne being merely in around a hundred or so (300 coming from the anime, the manga being...less clear, I thought).  The marriage was 20 years before the story, just before the war.

There's a question.  Why *did* they need Akane, in particular, to stab captain?  Xiu could have done it himself.  From latter events, he's clearly willing to attack colleagues.

Yeah, I think I was going for something like, Akane is alone with the captain a lot, and so has opportunity to be an unexpected attacker.  Why Xiu can't do that himself does raise questions:  is it because they're thin on manpower and need all the help they can get, or something else?  I do think this is inadequately answered in the text.

Didn't Xiu light the rope-maker on fire?

The rope-maker wasn't at her stand; I'll review the part where Xiu burns it down to see how I can make that more clear.

Observation: When the captain switches, you switch pronouns to match the body.  When Ranma switches, you always use the male pronoun.

This is...complicated.  Almost always, Ranma is a male pronoun, yes.  There are a couple times where I try to remind what state Ranma's in by saying "the pigtailed girl...she..." sort of thing.  Before Kohl was widely outed this way, the characters' limited knowledge drove the narrator's pronoun usage.  Mostly, Kohl was a man and Wuya a woman, and the only person whom the narrator followed that would avoid this rule was Kohl himself (who will, in 8.3, always see himself as a man).  Now that Kohl and Wuya are known to be the same person, things are more...ambiguous, and they depend on the narrator's viewpoint.  Ranma is being stubborn and insists Kohl is Wuya (and, hence, is a girl).  Akane is more understanding.  Others, who aren't living with Kohl right now, may not have formed a consistent habit.

Basically, I've tried to have the pronouns the narrator uses follow the pronouns and viewpoint the POV character would use.  Nevertheless, there may be some inconsistencies there.

> "I'm sure that would suit Grandfather fine as well," he said. "He always had strange habits. I remember, as a young boy, I caught him trying on Grandmother's kimono. After that, he always brought me sweets from Nagano as a price for my continued cooperation. I was all too happy to oblige."

Perhaps "continued silence" would be a better phrase (unless Soun really is that way, but one would think he would not be so cavalier in admitting it).

I'm not sure why I have that as it is when I'm pretty sure I had "silence" there at one time or another.  Odd.

So, on one hand, if you removed the magic lesson, 8.0-1 this is a typical post-Saffron date setup.  These usually annoy me, since they're mostly same-ish, "Ranma loves Akane, you damned Ranma-other-fiancee fans" without much to it.  This didn't annoy me like those, because your entirety of book 1 changes the character dynamic.

I'm glad it doesn't come off as trite.  I felt that a lot of the entanglements with relationships were really on hold for book one, that after things blew up in chapter one, it was all about understanding the enemy, finding out who the Sorcerers were, and fighting to get Ranma back.  Book two gives the opportunity to confront everything that had to be put aside, and I see 8.1 as part of the starting point.  Necessary, in that way.  It may be too unambiguously positive, but I've been trying to write more positive stuff based on learning from The Coin, if only so that when things get bad, the relative change is accentuated.

The Kohl/Wuya aspect is itself, interesting, since the Captain's presence in Japan proper means that there's exposure to people who express emotions to each other (and this is interesting in itself, since emotional reserve is a stereotype of the Japanese people.  That, and honor-suicide at the drop of a hat.)  So, you could take this in the direction where, Ranma and Akane's relationship don't fall to Sindoor's expectations but the Captain has been subverted by living amongst people who can express themselves.  Or, if you're really ambitious, the captain isn't subverted...but the Guard who followed, is.

Yeah, there's a lot of possibility here.  What Kohl learns from Japanese culture and about gender is something I consider integral to the story.

Shampoo's necklace makes its return.  I remember it, since I was thinking when I read it that it was a very good setup for Shampoo as a tragic heroine.  I'd almost forgotten about the necklace, and had I not commented on it earlier, I might have actually done so.  I don't know if it works better like this, or whether it would be better to try to work them into her description (nothing too obvious, but a mention once or twice to keep it in the back of the reader's mind).  It's hard to say, without knowing what you'll be doing with that aspect of the story.  While I remember it, I am not sure if other readers would.

I'm not sure I understand about what works better.  You're saying the necklace isn't mentioned enough--it's mentioned in an opening paragraph where Ukyo remembers how Shampoo was allowed to lead the party--or...?

Ukyou was overshadowed in book 1.  Shampoo took on a personal sacrifice that is still hanging over her head, Akane was captured twice and had to stab someone in the back to save Ranma, Ukyou made cooking analogies.  I don't think that you've shortchanged her perspective, since Mousse and Ryouga had less, but it didn't feel like she changed events much.  When she'd made the "leek" comment, I'd somewhat expected you to pull a leek/leak pun and flood the Sorcerers to cut off their mobility, since she would have then made a meaningful contribution to the war effort.  I think she was useful for developing the group dynamic, but didn't really stand out as a fiancee who is threatening Akane in terms of usefulness/sacrifice/whatever.  Takahashi, herself, didn't do as much with Ukyou as some others, so there's no real shame in this;  still, something to keep in mind, depending on whatever you were planning for Ukyou in your later chapters/acts.

To sum up the previous two paragraphs, after the initial council debate where Cologne exposes the three speakers, the focus was on Akane.  Which is generally okay, given where the story has gone so far.  Whether it matters depends on where you're planning on for future events in Nerima, so I'll have to wait until you've written them to tell.

You're entirely right; Ukyo didn't have a lot to do, and after chapter four, neither did Shampoo.  I'm hoping to give them both bigger roles to play, to give the same focus on overcoming flaws (or trying to) as I did with Akane for the back half of book one.


At any rate, I can't thank you enough for having the patience to read through this story.  I'm glad that you find it generally tolerable.  Now that you've read the whole story, I can say a few things about what I'm trying to do with book two.  In trying to not lose the threads on each character's story, I'm trying to do less perspective changes.  8.1 and 8.2 both have single POV characters (Ranma and Ukyo), and as much as I can, I'm going to try to stick to that (in part, it's also easier to transition back into from the first-person stuff I was writing before, at least for me).  It's a slightly different style of storytelling, but I think it still works.

Thanks again for your thoughts so far.  I'm going to try working through the rest of chapter eight and then try to clear up the parts you found unclear or awkward.

[Jason_Miao]

To be honest, I was going for Cologne being merely in around a hundred or so (300 coming from the anime, the manga being...less clear, I thought).  The marriage was 20 years before the story, just before the war.

Okay.  I haven't read the manga in a long time, and disliked the anime and stopped watching after the first few eps...but remember the 300 number being thrown around fairly often.  If she's 100 (in canon, or in story), then that's fine.  And like I said, even if 300 is a correct number, it's not as if most people would notice or care about cameras anyway.

Observation: When the captain switches, you switch pronouns to match the body.  When Ranma switches, you always use the male pronoun.

This is...complicated. 
<snip>

But complicated in a good way!  I thought you were doing something like that (and when I said "always", I noticed in the earlier chapters that the Sorcerers would refer to Ranma as "she", so "always" wasn't the proper word.).  That you were treating pronouns based on viewpoint didn't really jump out at me until when I made the statement, when you're switching back and forth between viewpoints inclusive of the captain and Ranma more often.  If I had picked up on it earlier, it would have meant that I was confused/annoyed.

It may be too unambiguously positive, but I've been trying to write more positive stuff based on learning from The Coin, if only so that when things get bad, the relative change is accentuated.

It doesn't, mainly because from Ranma's viewpoint, it's Akane whom he sees coming after him, and whom he sees the most fighting and suffering for him. 

Shampoo's necklace makes its return.  I remember it, since I was thinking when I read it that it was a very good setup for Shampoo as a tragic heroine.  I'd almost forgotten about the necklace, and had I not commented on it earlier, I might have actually done so.  I don't know if it works better like this, or whether it would be better to try to work them into her description (nothing too obvious, but a mention once or twice to keep it in the back of the reader's mind).  It's hard to say, without knowing what you'll be doing with that aspect of the story.  While I remember it, I am not sure if other readers would.

I'm not sure I understand about what works better.  You're saying the necklace isn't mentioned enough--it's mentioned in an opening paragraph where Ukyo remembers how Shampoo was allowed to lead the party--or...?

I'm not sure if it is mentioned enough, or not enough.  I'm just raising the possibility that since there was that war and several battles, the significance might have gotten lost.  Since I was jotting notes for each chapter at a time, it's hard for me to offer an opinion from someone reading through the story with no incentive to particularly note story elements.  In short, I'm flagging it for attention, not necessarily change.

I'm hoping to give them both bigger roles to play, to give the same focus on overcoming flaws (or trying to) as I did with Akane for the back half of book one.

I was wondering if you were going to take this into a "Ranma-Akane relationship against all opponents" type story for book 2, especially since Akane had most of the screen time of all the fiancees in the last half.

At any rate, I can't thank you enough for having the patience to read through this story.  I'm glad that you find it generally tolerable. 

Book 1 as a whole was more than tolerable.   It was my pleasure to review this, and look forward to reading more of book 2.

[Muphrid]

Hm, it's been a while.  A draft of 8.3 is now attached.