[Haruhi] Inversion

[Brian]

Mildly WAFFy, but probably not quite enough to warrant the tag.  A short little nothing to exorcise some personal demons.  Hopefully others enjoy it as well.

Edit: updated draft.

[alethiophile]

Huh.

Well, can't really offer any C&C, being as previously mentioned terrible at that. I'm somewhat confused here since I haven't either read or watched Disappearance, but it's still readable. Seems interesting, though I think I'd get more out of it with the context of Disappearance.

[JonBob]

I'm somewhat confused here since I haven't either read or watched Disappearance, but it's still readable.

You poor deprived soul.

Spoiler: ShowHide

Do you have me mixed up with the main character in a BBC science fiction show?

I see what you did there

"And who's this 'Nagato'?"

He doesn't connect it to the same Nagato that Asakura's been mentioning?

Asahina-san takes a seat almost opposite me, and Nagato sits between us. This seems fine to me, right up until Koizumi takes the seat at my other side.
In short order, Asakura takes the seat next to Asahina-san, and Koizumi sits next to Suzumiya. That leaves me and the class rep as the lucky pair who don't have to share a side of the table.

I think something is off here, unless i'm getting next somethign wrong. Where is Asakura at? And who's sitting next to Nagato?

"And we can use the literature club as a cover to reasonable and safely research the supernatural, going forward."

"reasonably and safely research"

Asakura kicking me from beneath the table just reinforces the message, but I get it.

Ahaha!

So, back to the disappearance-verse, but with less grimdark!  I liked how Kyon didn't like himself (would this be analogous to not liking future-self?) I like how you can figure out what's going on by the second scene change, so it's more experiencing the fallout than figuring it out.

As for Asakura, she seems overly class-rep-like. Bossier than normal, but that might be due to being upset about Nagato. 

[Grahf]

I'll try and do some in depth C&C later, but reading this last night couple things particularly struck me:

Spoiler: ShowHide

Until the end when you revealed that the four of them witnessed Kyon's disappearance, I was really confused as to why he was so easily forgiven, especially by Mikuru. It all clicked into place when you explained what happened, but it still seemed a little jarring to me.

Also, my memory is probably pretty bad in regards to this, but I kind of did a double take when Koizumi said he was dating Haruhi. I don't know if that's just the way that he interprets his relationship with her while she sees him as more of a lackey/underling, but to have him so freely admit it was strange. I can understand if perhaps he did it as a subtle way of telling this Kyon that Haruhi's off limits without being outright intimidating, but it still caught be off guard.

I was a little surprised that Tsuruya didn't tag along in spite of Mikuru saying that she'd be fine. After everything that happened over the course of the last few days I doubt that Tsuruya would really be willing or even able to trust any of them, especially not Kyon or Haruhi. I guess that Ryoko might have reassured her, but given that Tsuruya doesn't know that she'd a class rep as well as Yuki's friend, it seems a little odd.

Those are really just minor quibbles. It was quite an enjoyable story overall. I've always been a little curious as to how something like this scenario would play out. I thought that there might have been a bit more tension then there was, but considering that it's a one-shot there can only be so much suspence before a resolution is necessary.

[Brian]

To JonBob:

Spoiler: ShowHide

"And who's this 'Nagato'?"

He doesn't connect it to the same Nagato that Asakura's been mentioning?

Hmm, no.  Should be the same Nagato, he's just reiterating it/frustrated that everyone is assuming he should know.

I find myself climbing to my feet despite my reluctance.  Even so....  "Clubroom?" I wonder.  "And who's this 'Nagato'?"  No one's explained that to me, but I do want an explanation, and I have to admit that I'm intrigued!

Asahina-san takes a seat almost opposite me, and Nagato sits between us. This seems fine to me, right up until Koizumi takes the seat at my other side.
In short order, Asakura takes the seat next to Asahina-san, and Koizumi sits next to Suzumiya. That leaves me and the class rep as the lucky pair who don't have to share a side of the table.

I think something is off here, unless i'm getting next somethign wrong. Where is Asakura at? And who's sitting next to Nagato?

Re-read it?  Nagato is 'between us' from Kyon's point of view, and next to Mikuru.  Ryouko is directly opposite Kyon.  The table is square and has only four sides.  If Haruhi is next to Koizumi, and it's specified that Kyon and Ryouko have 'sides to themselves' this ... feels like it should be really clear to me.

I'm not sure how to clarify this.

"reasonably and safely research"

Oops. :p

Asakura kicking me from beneath the table just reinforces the message, but I get it.

Ahaha!

So, back to the disappearance-verse, but with less grimdark!  I liked how Kyon didn't like himself (would this be analogous to not liking future-self?) I like how you can figure out what's going on by the second scene change, so it's more experiencing the fallout than figuring it out.

Right.  Excellent. :D

As for Asakura, she seems overly class-rep-like. Bossier than normal, but that might be due to being upset about Nagato.

Yes.  Kyon being cold to Ryouko = whatever.  Kyon making Nagato run home in tears = defensive for her friend.

Thanks for the comments!

[Brian]

I'll try and do some in depth C&C later, but reading this last night couple things particularly struck me:

Okay!

Spoiler: ShowHide

Until the end when you revealed that the four of them witnessed Kyon's disappearance, I was really confused as to why he was so easily forgiven, especially by Mikuru. It all clicked into place when you explained what happened, but it still seemed a little jarring to me.

Hmmm.  Ideas on how to address that?

Also, my memory is probably pretty bad in regards to this, but I kind of did a double take when Koizumi said he was dating Haruhi. I don't know if that's just the way that he interprets his relationship with her while she sees him as more of a lackey/underling, but to have him so freely admit it was strange. I can understand if perhaps he did it as a subtle way of telling this Kyon that Haruhi's off limits without being outright intimidating, but it still caught be off guard.

I'm ... confused?  Unless I'm remembering things incorrectly, Koizumi and Haruhi _are_ dating in the disappearance universe.  Haruhi's still in her 'will date anyone who asks' phase, unlike the base universe.

I was a little surprised that Tsuruya didn't tag along in spite of Mikuru saying that she'd be fine. After everything that happened over the course of the last few days I doubt that Tsuruya would really be willing or even able to trust any of them, especially not Kyon or Haruhi. I guess that Ryoko might have reassured her, but given that Tsuruya doesn't know that she'd a class rep as well as Yuki's friend, it seems a little odd.

I'm not sure why you're so certain Tsuruya wouldn't know that?  At least in base canon, Tsuruya does work for the student council.  It's feasible to me that she know Ryouko's a class rep.

...but saying that doesn't help the story.  So I'll bring it into the story:

"Alright," Tsuruya-sempai sighs, hanging her head and shaking it.  Glancing at Ryouko, she explains, "I know that girl from studenty council work, so I'm sure that as a class representative, she will be responsible.  However...."  Looking up and meeting Asahina-san's gaze, she warns, "...so much as _one_ finger, and let me know, promise?"

Those are really just minor quibbles. It was quite an enjoyable story overall. I've always been a little curious as to how something like this scenario would play out. I thought that there might have been a bit more tension then there was, but considering that it's a one-shot there can only be so much suspence before a resolution is necessary.

I could pad it out, but once Haruhi enters the picture, she steamrolls for resolution.  Anything else would just be ... well ... padding. :p

Thanks for the feedback!

[Grahf]

I'm pretty much convinced I need to re-read the novels again. My memories are too fuzzy regarding them at the moment.

Spoiler: ShowHide

I honestly can't even remember where it's mentioned that Tsuruya is a member of the student council. I thought for sure that Tsuruya was just a regular student.

I knew I might be off base regarding the Haurhi/Koizumi dating thing, I thought that Haruhi was mostly keeping him around because he was the "mysterious transfer student", but that she was quickly becoming disinterested because he wasn't much more than that. I'll admit that I was a bit confused to begin with as to whether or not that would count as dating in anyone's book, but that's neither here nor there.

Anyways, moving on. I think that perhaps having Mikuru hinting that something weird happened might be good. Something akin to her looking at him like she's seen a ghost, and then when he says sorry she tells him it's not that, but that she didn't know what happened to him. She's about to elaborate further, when Haruhi cuts her off, either saying that she wants to get everyone that was there back together before telling him or simply steamrolling along out of an eagerness to go get Yuki.

I'm not entirely sure that it would work, but it does give a hint that the reason she's not abjectly terrified of him anymore is because she realizes that something bigger was going on, just not the extent of it.

[Brian]

Spoiler: ShowHide

Works "for" not "on".  And it's in the story with the new student council president.  Editor in Chief, I think?  Book seven or eight.

I'll think about the Mikuru angle, but the way you describe it implies assumptions I don't think Mikuru would make.  She's seen Kyon twice and he vanished into thin air one of those times; she doesn't have a reason to be astounded that he's returned, as she doesn't know that he went back to his home dimension (well, Haruhi might _say_ something like that, but Mikuru doesn't have any particular reason to buy into that as much as just be confused.)  Like I said, I'll think about it, but I'm not sure about how to change it yet.

Maybe something will come to me if I give it a bit. :)

[JonBob]

Spatial descriptions, Yaaaaaaaaay~!

Spoiler: ShowHide

Asahina-san takes a seat almost opposite me, and Nagato sits between us. This seems fine to me, right up until Koizumi takes the seat at my other side.
In short order, Asakura takes the seat next to Asahina-san, and Koizumi sits next to Suzumiya. That leaves me and the class rep as the lucky pair who don't have to share a side of the table.

I think something is off here, unless i'm getting next somethign wrong. Where is Asakura at? And who's sitting next to Nagato?

Re-read it?  Nagato is 'between us' from Kyon's point of view, and next to Mikuru.  Ryouko is directly opposite Kyon.  The table is square and has only four sides.  If Haruhi is next to Koizumi, and it's specified that Kyon and Ryouko have 'sides to themselves' this ... feels like it should be really clear to me.

I'm not sure how to clarify this.

Hmm, I'll have to go back over this a bit and maybe go thought-by-thought.  Asahina is "almost across", so that must mean on a side, but further away. That may have been my first mistake, since I interpreted that as "somewhere on the other side". Ok, I can see Nagato being on the side as well, and Koizumi too. I suppose the last issue is Asakura sits "next to" Asahina, but on a different side. I suppose this all makes sense if you interpret the table as having 8 places, 2 to a side.

[Muphrid]

In your life, you may hope, or even to some degree expect strange things to happen.

Possibly a comma after "expect" (as a parenthetical remark).

"'Prank,'" Asakura grumbles, shooting me a brief, angry scowl.  "Is that what you call breaking Nagato-chan's heart?  Let me tell you something, Kyon -- playboys are the worst, but after what you did...."  She trails off, her blue eyes spearing into my own.

Even this Asakura referred to her as "Nagato-san," though perhaps as a gesture of sympathy this is appropriate.

"But not to abduct Mikuru-chan!" Tsuruya-sempai counters.

Mikuru.

"Hmm," Asakura muses doubtfully.  "And how did Kyon come to be replaced by this other version of him?  This 'John' person?"

She calls him Kyon (without the -kun) now?

Still ... when Suzumiya took over the story, finishing up with some whole 'assembling the SOS Brigade' bit, by the time even she stopped smiling to explain 'John' rejecting her request that he join her club, I wanted to punch the guy!

Perhaps it would be clearer to say John rejected Nagato's request?

...oh, hell.  To see the way her eyes fill with hope, holding up the paper in a shaking hand....  The way her breath quickens....  Those are strong hints.

Kyon really picks up on this pretty quick--not at all like the one we know, who wouldn't broach such a subject when it relates to him.  Or perhaps, when it relates to Haruhi.


It feels like Kyon is missing some understanding of what "John" was trying to do--not running around willy-nilly for the sake of pissing of the people around him, but to get back home.  It means that Kyon feels the need only to apologize for what he did, rather than feel some sympathy and forgiveness for what John did, especially since they both go through some mirror of each other's situation.

Overall, though, Kyon's reactions to his predicament--and those of the people around him to his apparent behavior--feel very believable.  I think my favorite things about this piece are the reactions of the other characters to John's disappearance and Kyon's reappearance--finding out how Nagato has withdrawn, how Haruhi has been energized over this, how cold Asakura is toward him at first, but she shows enough of an open mind to deem Kyon sincere, and that's fun.

[Grahf]

I wouldn't worry too much about what I brought up. Like I said, it made sense once the reveal came about, and I figured that there must have been a reason for the characters to have acted the way they did. Anyways, hoping to do the more in depth C&C now.

Spoiler: ShowHide

I suppose it's demanding on my part, but I'd very much like to know what their explanation is for things lately as well!"

Seems to read a little awkwardly, to me at least.

"And the last time he was here, he embarrassed and did shameful things that people now think I'm responsible for!"

Almost reads like it's missing a word. "he embarrassed people and did shameful things that everyone now thinks I'm responsible for!"

Not really much else. Nothing else jumps out at me as needing corrections whatsoever.

[Brian]

Possibly a comma after "expect" (as a parenthetical remark).

Yep!

Even this Asakura referred to her as "Nagato-san," though perhaps as a gesture of sympathy this is appropriate.

Hmm, didn't remember that.  I'll change it, then.

Mikuru.

Right.

"Hmm," Asakura muses doubtfully.  "And how did Kyon come to be replaced by this other version of him?  This 'John' person?"

She calls him Kyon (without the -kun) now?

Hmm, plausible, but nope.  Didn't remember the disappearance addresses.

Perhaps it would be clearer to say John rejected Nagato's request?

That could stand to be cleaned up a bit, yeah.

Kyon really picks up on this pretty quick--not at all like the one we know, who wouldn't broach such a subject when it relates to him.  Or perhaps, when it relates to Haruhi.

That's got some subtext, but instead I revised it a bit to call back to Asakura's earlier remarks about heartbreak and playboys.

It feels like Kyon is missing some understanding of what "John" was trying to do--not running around willy-nilly for the sake of pissing of the people around him, but to get back home.  It means that Kyon feels the need only to apologize for what he did, rather than feel some sympathy and forgiveness for what John did, especially since they both go through some mirror of each other's situation.

I can do something to address that.  I'd rather have this Kyon understand the baseline one a bit better, and Haruhi could at least sympathize with him -- even if she does (somewhat selfishly, perhaps) still kind of want to meet with that Kyon again.  It would help lead up to the 'don't really blame him that much' ending a bit better anyway.

Overall, though, Kyon's reactions to his predicament--and those of the people around him to his apparent behavior--feel very believable.  I think my favorite things about this piece are the reactions of the other characters to John's disappearance and Kyon's reappearance--finding out how Nagato has withdrawn, how Haruhi has been energized over this, how cold Asakura is toward him at first, but she shows enough of an open mind to deem Kyon sincere, and that's fun.

Hooray!

Thanks for the feedback, Muphrid. :)

[Brian]

I wouldn't worry too much about what I brought up. Like I said, it made sense once the reveal came about, and I figured that there must have been a reason for the characters to have acted the way they did. Anyways, hoping to do the more in depth C&C now.

Okay!

Spoiler: ShowHide

I suppose it's demanding on my part, but I'd very much like to know what their explanation is for things lately as well!"

Seems to read a little awkwardly, to me at least.

Revised it slightly.

Sighing, Asakura shakes her head a small distance and says, "Well -- these people have come to apologize to you for their misbehavior!  I suppose on my part it's a bit demanding, but I'd very much like to have an explanation for things lately, as well!"

"And the last time he was here, he embarrassed and did shameful things that people now think I'm responsible for!"

Almost reads like it's missing a word. "he embarrassed people and did shameful things that everyone now thinks I'm responsible for!"

Yes, missing a word.

And the last time he was here, he embarrassed me, and did shameful things that people now think I'm responsible for!"

Not really much else. Nothing else jumps out at me as needing corrections whatsoever.

Okay!  Thanks for the comments. :)

I'll have a revised fic posted in a minute or three.

[Specular]

I downloaded the draft a few days ago but I didn't get the chance to read it until today.

Thank you for writing this piece, I always wanted to see how this side of the plot of the fourth novel could go. Apparently people shy away from writing about the timey-wimey interdimensional stuff inherent to The Disappearance, at least as a fanfic.

It seems I'm too late for C&C, but here I go anyway:

Spoiler: ShowHide

I think it was a good call to assure 'John' vanished in front of the people in the clubroom. After all, he reappeared with his winter clothes after his time leap to the past, implying that the temporal displacement included his physical form.

I noticed Asakura's insistence in bringing Kyon to Nagato doesn't make much sense unless this version of Yuki would prefer to see him again even after all the things "he" supposedly did, which is, sadly enough, completely in-character. IMO disappearance!Yuki was that hopelessly in love with Kyon. An example of a similar reaction would be the fact she tried to make him join the literature clubroom almost immediately after he pushed her against a wall.

One plot line I was somewhat hoping to see being developed is a character, most likely Nagato or Asakura, suspecting that something is not right about their world. I theorized once that Yuki most likely didn't go as far as to create a fake family for the disappearance-verse versions of herself and Ryouko, which could lead them to a "tomato in the mirror" realization. However I don't put much force behind my words because something along these lines would have killed the WAFF pretty quickly.



On a more technical subject, I'm confused about the dates. IIRC, Yuki changed the world during the early morning of December 18th, which means "John" had dinner with Nagato and Asakura the night of the 19th and found Haruhi and time travelled into the past the next day. Under the assumption "Kyon" missed only those three days, then the current day in-story is December 21st (instead 22nd) and "Kyon" should mistakenly think it's the eighteenth.

Also, IINM the days of the week don't match. From the 7th novel, it's possible to infer that Valentine's day fell on Monday (trivia: the only years between 1990 and 2020 with that property are 1994, 2000, 2005 and 2011), which implies that December 18th of the previous year was a Saturday (there are always 58 days, or 1392 hours, between both days' midnight). We can also conclude that, according to Tanigawa, December 19th (a Sunday) was a school day in Kitago.

In other words:

"Ah ... Class Rep ... is that day correct?" I ask, braving her irritated demeanor. "Shouldn't-- Shouldn't today be the nineteenth eighteenth?"

"When did it happen?" I ask in suspicion.

"Well ... I wasn't here, but according to Tsuruya-sempai, the day before yesterday eighteenth," he mumbles, frowning.

"That's impossible -- we don't have classes on Sunday," I return. [???]

"Today is Friday Tuesday," he counters, shaking his head, giving me an odd look. 

"Why is everyone so adamant about today being the twenty second first?" I can't help but ask, shaking my head. "If yesterday was the eighteenth seventeenth, then today is the nineteenth eighteenth, isn't it?"

"Today is the twenty second first," someone else comments, breaking into our conversation.

"Nagato Yuki. You really don't remember? You came here and had dinner with us on Wednesday Sunday! And you were very cold to me, too...." Asakura peers into my eyes.

[Brian]

I downloaded the draft a few days ago but I didn't get the chance to read it until today.

Sorry about the delay in replying.

Spoiler: ShowHide

One plot line I was somewhat hoping to see being developed is a character, most likely Nagato or Asakura, suspecting that something is not right about their world. I theorized once that Yuki most likely didn't go as far as to create a fake family for the disappearance-verse versions of herself and Ryouko, which could lead them to a "tomato in the mirror" realization. However I don't put much force behind my words because something along these lines would have killed the WAFF pretty quickly.

Yeah, that's....  The goal is that the story has a happy ending.  Some may prefer to dwell in fridge horror, but that's not thematically what the story's about; just like Tanigawa didn't really mean to have it overshadow the story's more positive notes.  It's meant to be fun, with occasional moments of drama, not a huge downer. >_>;

On a more technical subject, I'm confused about the dates. IIRC, Yuki changed the world during the early morning of December 18th, which means "John" had dinner with Nagato and Asakura the night of the 19th and found Haruhi and time travelled into the past the next day. Under the assumption "Kyon" missed only those three days, then the current day in-story is December 21st (instead 22nd) and "Kyon" should mistakenly think it's the eighteenth.

I'm ... under the impression that Kyon has 72 hours in the disappearance universe to sort things out.

From memory, and a very brief check of the novels:

Day 1: Kyon goes to school and sees Asakura; freaks out that she's there and his friends are missing.  Finds Nagato in the club room and asks to use the computer.

Day 2: Kyon has dinner with Asakura/Nagato.  I think he spends a lot of time in introspection, too.

Day 3: Taniguchi remarks about Haruhi going to Kouyuen, and Kyon runs off to advance the plot.

Also, IINM the days of the week don't match. From the 7th novel, it's possible to infer that Valentine's day fell on Monday (trivia: the only years between 1990 and 2020 with that property are 1994, 2000, 2005 and 2011), which implies that December 18th of the previous year was a Saturday (there are always 58 days, or 1392 hours, between both days' midnight). We can also conclude that, according to Tanigawa, December 19th (a Sunday) was a school day in Kitago.

That doesn't actually work.  Tanigawa is like a manga author, and has the seasons/time period in the novels reflect the period where he writes it, not where they actually take place.  The first book was published, IIRC, 2003.  Kyon's reference to 'hoping something happened when the year 2000' was a reference (at that time) to something that could have happened three years ago (irony) from the date of publication.  Kyon would have been 13 at that time, if Melancholy were set in 2003.

That line becomes something of an artifact when you realize that Kyon would only be three if you set the calendar to 2011.

Also, most schools (in Japan) don't go during Sundays, or weekends at all.  If a school does have a weekend schedule, then it's usually every other Saturday, or a half-day on Saturday.  The anime shows us that Kitago does full weekends off, so....

Your research is very diligent, but unfortunately you're trying to make sense of a convention that doesn't really suit itself toward it.  I intentionally chose to use numbered days, but generally ignore days of the week.  Logically, the adventure has to start on a school day (the normal day), then be followed by the three days of the disappearance arc.  That means that the arc has to begin on a Monday or Tuesday.  For this story, it's a Monday, so Kyon can go to school on Friday and be annoyed about careless sliders.

I didn't even bother looking up which years would fit, since I knew it would be incompatible with stuff that Tanigawa hadn't thought through.

In other words:

So I updated the numerical dates, but ignored the day-of-the-week corrections, since they don't really fit. :\

Thanks for the feedback! :)