[Haruhi] Unhandled Exception - outline and background thread

[Muphrid]

Unhandled Exception is a Haruhi story I'm working on, and I'm hoping to find some common ground in terms of interpretations and themes before committing to a totally fleshed out blueprint of the story to come.

The basic idea is this: Nagato realizes she's beginning to experience an error similar to the one in Disappearance, and to head it off, Kyon tries to help her express herself and her own will in a healthy way.

At this nascent stage in the story's fleshing-out, the obstacles to this effort are twofold: how can Kyon spend so much more time with Nagato while evading Haruhi's attentions, and how far will the IDSE go to resist Nagato's growing independence?

Key to this story is the interpretation of Nagato's "error" in Disappearance.  Kyon himself describes it as Nagato beginning to feel yet lacking any way to express herself.  Per the Brown translation, "You [Nagato] probably wanted to scream and rage and tell a certain person off.  Well, that's what Nagato should've done, even if she didn't feel that way."  Awkwardness of that translation aside, Kyon's viewpoint is clear.  Nagato was designed not to express herself.  I wanted to take this one step further:  her mission--her mandate as an observer of Haruhi--prohibits her from affecting the status quo of brigade life.

With that in mind, let me put one point forward for discussion:  in principle, Nagato is restricted only by the IDSE's will, but in practice, Haruhi's authority over the brigade means that, as much as Nagato is loyal to Kyon first and foremost, Haruhi is a driving force on her existence that cannot be defied and only indirectly influenced (via Kyon).  I would use this interpretation to have Nagato find some reward and contentment in growing out of her role as the silent assent in the brigade.  Nevertheless, I expect that this interpretation can be better honed and refined.

This leads naturally to some interaction with Haruhi, and as I said, Kyon can spend more time with Nagato for only so long before Haruhi gets wind of it.  There are lots of ways Haruhi could choose to delve into this change of behavior, but regardless of her approach, the underlying reason--her attraction to Kyon--is clear, and I think this story would be an appropriate venue to explore Kyon's reticence to confront this issue.  It seems unlikely to me that he is totally ignorant--rather, he chooses to gloss over it in narration and plays dumb for Koizumi.  Kyon's reasons for doing so are not so clear, and that's the second issue I would like to investigate further: what are Kyon's reasons for avoiding this issue?

At any rate, I envision that Kyon's willigness to avoid that issue would carry over to Nagato if he suspected her desires to express herself indirectly related to some attraction toward him.  This would be considerably sticky, for to continue to engage her and to help her come into her own as a more expressive person could be misconstrued as encouraging said attraction--the issue becomes impossible to keep avoiding.

So, that's another goal, essentially, of this story: to break the status quo in which Kyon has yet to acknowledge, if only to the reader, Haruhi's attraction to him, spurred on in part by Nagato's new course as well.  What Kyon would choose here is a bit more open.  What I'm aiming for right now is for Kyon to try to encourage Nagato to express herself while admitting that he cannot guarantee either now or in the future that he would reciprocate any feelings she might have for him.  Personally, I don't see Nagato having a problem with this.  Even in Disapparance, she gave him a choice.  Even if he did feel something more for her then, feelings change, and that free will is exactly what she's aspiring for.

As for Kyon and Haruhi, I think by the end of this story, Kyon shall have at least admitted to the reader how Haruhi must feel and moreover make clear to her that he knows.  That does not mean he must "give an answer" to any implicit confession or anything like that.  Simply acknowledging that between them represents a step forward in their relationship, wherever it may go.

Finally, there's one more aspect I haven't covered, which is the IDSE's involvement.  For an entity in which every aspect or manifestation of it has a directive, having Nagato pursue her own goals could be very troubling--troubling enough, I think, that the Entity would risk Haruhi's wrath to see the "disease" of free will eliminated and contained.  But ultimately, the Entity has been looking to find the key to its further growth, and I envision Kyon, standing up for Nagato, convincing it in some way (either by confronting its mouthpieces in Kimidori and Asakura or in some other way) that Nagato's emotional development and ability to choose for herself represents the true path for auto-evolution.  It's not Haruhi they should be looking at, and that at last can keep one faction from causing too much further trouble for them, especially considering how they were willing to hang Nagato out to dry in books 9-11.

Those are the three big goals, I guess:  Kyon and Haruhi come to an understanding about her feeling for him, Nagato learns to express herself better, and the Entity is no longer so adversarial.

What of Koizumi?  I guess he may end up trying to push Kyon toward Haruhi and away for Nagato.  I admit, I don't at this time have any huge plans for him.

What of Asahina?  Not sure where she would come down in these situations, to be honest.  I'd appreciate input on this topic.

What of...Asakura?!  Yes, I have an idea in my mind running about her coming back and, in Nagato's efforts to convince the Entity that her growing freedom is good, Nagato "liberates" Asakura from the pursuit of the Entity's goals, but what this results in is Asakura being the avatar of Nagato's jealousy toward Haruhi, so to speak, and pursuing actions that Nagato herself would never condone.  In essence, Nagato herself remains clean while Asakura--in her own twisted "devotion" for Nagato--is willing to do much worse.  I admit, this plotline is still somewhat undeveloped, but what Asakura represents to Kyon is a serious, visceral threat, and I feel her presence could help maintain tension in the story.


The bare-bones framework of the story would run as follows:

Nagato takes Kyon aside and informs him of a growing instability within her, and Kyon takes her out for the day to encourage her to act on her emotions.  Nagato speaks up during a Brigade meeting, slightly tempering Haruhi's plans for a day.

The IDSE take notice of Nagato's growing freedom, and through Kimidori, the Entity delivers a threat--stop encouraging Nagato, or they find a way to circumvent his trump card.  Kyon doesn't believe this possible at first, but when Haruhi confronts him, having heard mysteriously that he and Nagato spent a day together, Kyon realizes the Entity's intent--would Haruhi recreate the world at his whim to save Nagato if she's become jealous of the time he spent with her?

This forces Kyon to admit (at least to the reader) that Haruhi is attracted to him.  He might try explaining to her how important it is to Nagato that she stop keeping her feelings bottled up--that way, he and Haruhi can work together to solve a problem, instead of him trying to fix things behind her back.  Haruhi might actually have a good effect on Nagato in terms of helping her be more take-charge, and for this reason, when Asakura tries to intimidate Kyon, Nagato steps in and helps Asakura "see the light" about free will.

For a time, this seems to work, as through Asakura, Nagato's experiences are being spread throughout the Entity, but as Kyon and Haruhi grow closer, Nagato becomes distant, and Asakura returns to try to exact revenge against Haruhi for hurting Nagato.  Haruhi survives this easily with her powers--though she may not even realize that that's what saves her at the time--but the chaos prompts the Entity to confront Kyon (perhaps speaking through numerous interfaces, each of which captures its will somewhat differently?), asking him, how can this be a good thing?  But Kyon will say yes, while there may be pain involved in choosing one's own goals yet failing and other stuff, being able to pursue one's own direction is its own reward, and perhaps instead of pursuing Haruhi's powers, the Entity should consider purusing other goals and allowing different aspects of itself the freedom to do as they please, without an overriding goal of auto-evolution.

The Entity agrees, and even more interfaces come to Earth, not to observe Haruhi but humanity as a whole.  Nagato is free to smile and speak up as she likes, and Kyon acknowledges Haruhi's feelings, while as yet being unsure what to do about them--for now, that mutual understanding is enough, and he's confident that Haruhi would never take his ability to choose away from him.



Again, the idea is all very nascent, and I'm particularly interested in any differences of canon interpretation (or plausible extensions thereof) that would affect this initial framework.  Do these goals of mine resonate?  Should Kyon respond to Haruhi after all?  Is it too difficult a tightrope to walk balancing Haruhi against Nagato and their potentially competing desires?

That's just a fraction of the concerns I have, but I hope there's a seed of something good here--even if most of what's around it must be tweaked or cut to find it.  It is my sincere hope that opening up the development process at this stage will help work out any significant issues regarding the tone and goals of the story, so that when the time to write the actual text comes around, the result will be more or less agreeable, instead of fundamentally askew of what people are interested in and hope to see in a piece.

Thanks for your attention.

[Halbarad]

I don't have a lot of cohesive thoughts to provide here, so I'm going to bullet what I've got; I tend to be better with the rapid back-and-forth in chat rather than an organized post. I've talked with Brian a bit on this to clarify my thoughts, and here's what I've got (in no particular order):

• This may be a bit over-plotted. Yuki developing and displaying more emotions could go in a lot of different directions, so I'd keep the framework of the story even more vague; Kyon tries to encourage her to develop free will, and perhaps not a lot more solid than that. The way her emotions develop could be really volatile, so I'd leave plenty of room for the plot to flex as the character evolves.
• I'm not sure I'd nail the fic to the IDSE becoming less adversarial; everything I'm seeing here points towards that relationship getting worse rather than better. Encouraging free will among its component parts is basically calling for the destruction of the IDSE as a cohesive collective, after all, and while it quite possibly might be the next stage of evolution for data lifeforms as a whole, it's death for the collective.
• Avoid flanderizing the characters. I'll admit that this was an issue for me with The Coin; even before some of the fridge horror implications kick in as Haruhi realizes her powers, I was having some serious concerns with the characterization of the rest of the Brigade -- most of them were almost like caricatures of their actual selves.
• Personal take here, but I see jealousy being a very small issue between Haruhi and Yuki. Depending on when this is set it seems pretty likely that Haruhi is going to be aware that Yuki and Kyon are close (albeit non-romantically); I'd also say that Yuki trying to turn this into romance seems like a bit of a stretch to me, given her personality and the place she's starting -- I strongly suspect she doesn't have a solid grasp of what friendship even means yet (although she has some ground work), much less a romantic relationship. And Kyon can encourage her growth a lot more simply by being a friend, rather than trying to figure out being her boyfriend. He himself has plenty of experience at being friends with people, and none with being in a romantic relationship -- and either one is going to be a significant learning process for Yuki.
  
  To me, I think it kind of doubtful that Haruhi would see this as any kind of threat, unless Yuki and Kyon were careless enough to do something that looked like a date and let Haruhi find out about it. And if she did, I think it's less likely to make her jealous and more likely to make her worried; if anything, it'll make her more overt in making her feelings towards Kyon known, since in her perception Kyon's much more likely to have a deeper relationship with Yuki than the shallow physical attraction he's shown to Mikuru, which makes it a more serious threat -- one that she can't just yell at Kyon to negate.
  
  So Kyon and Yuki aren't really trying to hide the time they're spending together; if anything, I think Haruhi simply tries to compete for more of Kyon's time (and probably somewhat rudely, at least at first), possibly to an extent that Kyon is forced to address the situation with both her and Yuki.
• My biases towards Koizumi are well-known at this point, so I won't belabor them here. If you take my advice and go the 'misinterpreted friendship' route for the fic, Koizumi becomes a source of tension/irritation for Kyon as he tries to push him away from Yuki for fear of Haruhi's reaction (and probably misreads it entirely, even with the empathic link). If you want a slightly more sympathetic angle for him, you could show him feeling increasingly lost as nothing he expects to happen actually does, and he has to admit that he has no clue how the hell Haruhi really works.
• Mikuru is probably not going to be much more than a flavor character, although using her as a gauge to show Yuki becoming more like a regular human (and Mikuru overcoming her own fears) wouldn't be a bad minor angle for her to take. Depending on how adversarial the IDSE is to humanity in her native time, though, it could be an excuse for Mikuru to get some 'orders' to encourage Yuki's development in the hopes that it'll shatter the IDSE.

[Grahf]

The IDSE take notice of Nagato's growing freedom, and through Kimidori, the Entity delivers a threat--stop encouraging Nagato, or they find a way to circumvent his trump card.  Kyon doesn't believe this possible at first, but when Haruhi confronts him, having heard mysteriously that he and Nagato spent a day together, Kyon realizes the Entity's intent--would Haruhi recreate the world at his whim to save Nagato if she's become jealous of the time he spent with her?

Since you've indicated that this is going to be set after the last released novel I feel that there would have to be something really out of sorts happening in order for Kyon to believe that Haruhi might recreate the world in a fit of jealousy over him seeming to get closer to Yuki. Now I could see it if the IDSE spun the information in a way that made it seem leagues worse than what was actually happening, but then you have the problem of having Haruhi actually believe it. At this point even if they aren't sure of their relationship I don't think it's that much of a stretch to say that Haruhi trusts Kyon and his judgment most of the time.

I would find a growing amount of emotional instability to be more fitting. It gives Koizumi a reason to pry; he wants to vent the pressure off before there actually is an incident. It would also show that Haruhi is conflicted: she considers both people to be her friends, but even if she seems consciously willing to let them try her inner turmoil over it can still represent a problem.

What of...Asakura?!  Yes, I have an idea in my mind running about her coming back and, in Nagato's efforts to convince the Entity that her growing freedom is good, Nagato "liberates" Asakura from the pursuit of the Entity's goals, but what this results in is Asakura being the avatar of Nagato's jealousy toward Haruhi, so to speak, and pursuing actions that Nagato herself would never condone.  In essence, Nagato herself remains clean while Asakura--in her own twisted "devotion" for Nagato--is willing to do much worse.  I admit, this plotline is still somewhat undeveloped, but what Asakura represents to Kyon is a serious, visceral threat, and I feel her presence could help maintain tension in the story.

I'm speaking here with obvious and clear bias, so take what I say with anywhere from a grain to a silo of salt if need be.

My memory is a little hazy, but from their last encounter, it seems like Ryoko might already be rather pro free will. This specific excerpts in particular:

Spoiler: ShowHide

"So there's no point in my trying to fight you, then. Fair enough. I only plan on acting according to my own will. Nagato-san taught me that, you know. That's where exactly the potential for independent evolution truly lies. Didn't you know, Kimidori-san? She has long ceased to be a simple terminal. In which case, don't you think that we too might hold that same potential?"

"Nagato-san and I are like reflections in a mirror. Can you understand that? I'm much more akin to Nagato-san than Kimidori-san is. The Interface you're looking at right now won't lift a finger to help you. Her job is, after all, merely to observe."

This isn't to say that Ryoko can't be a threat. I think that if anything she may grow to be jealous of Yuki's growing freedom. If given the chance to engage in her own whims though, she's no doubt going to prove provocative at best, and an unbelievably dangerous threat at worst. I could see her going to Haruhi and trying to break the masquerade herself if given the slimmest chance, because to her that's just the swiftest course of action to seeing "something interesting" as she'd probably put it.



That's all that really strikes me at the moment. I'll try and think upon this more and get back to you.

[Muphrid]

Thanks for talking a look at this, Hal and Grahf.  Starting with Hal:

• Agreed, ultimately Nagato's growth will have to be organic, so it may be a mistake on my part to try to plan around her reactions when I don't know how her reactions are going to feel.  Hm, not sure what to do here, but I'll mull over it and see what I can do to open things up a bit more.


• Right, so lemme elaborate on the IDSE part of the story a bit further: the way I envisioned it, Kyon persuades the IDSE to consider the possibility as an alternative to being fixated on Haruhi.  In the end, the IDSE has the choice to decide, but I admit there was some coolness factor for me, thinking that Kyon could put together such an impassioned argument that he could change the mind of an entire data entity.  But that's all contingent on if the IDSE could be persuaded at all, which seems to be part of what you're getting at.  I guess some of this involves how the IDSE is structured at all.  If it's more like a single computer system with a bunch of programs that have small, well-defined tasks, it would indeed be very resistant to any kind of dismantling.  If it's more like a conglomeration of data creatures, then why would they need to reassert free will at all?  Hm.  Ultimately, I would like to see something where the IDSE lose interest in Haruhi and thus become less of a menacing presence.  I admit, though, if the Entity can't be persuaded Nagato is pursuing a "good thing," then there's no real avenue for doing that.  I'm unsure if that means the goal will have to be discarded or another avenue chosen to get there, but you're right to point out that it is very sticky.


• Yeah, I feel like I tried too hard to start The Coin in a light fashion and went too far trying to go for amusement and humor before seriousness ensued later on, among other issues.


• I did think that, a little bit, while cleaning up the outline for posting.  Nagato wouldn't ask for anything other than friendship, would she.  She's too used to subjugating her own wishes for others, and that's even presuming she would understand the difference between love and friendship well enough to choose one over the other.  So if that element stands (and I admit I may end up cutting it), it may end up more like Kyon fears this (based on his experience in Disappearance) rather than Nagato actually tries to push for anything romantic.  Even then, it would just take one question on Kyon's part to get all of that cleared up, so I'll have to mull over what can be done to salvage this aspect, if anything.
  
  Regarding Haruhi, I did feel like her reaction shouldn't be more typical tsundere stuff.  She's more mature than she was at the onset of canon, and she can push to get more of Kyon's time without being obnoxious about it.  And I do like the notion that Kyon and Nagato's close relationship--one that is outwardly warm--will encourage Haruhi to seek something with Kyon that's less...I dunno, subtextual?
  
  It's interesting you suggest Kyon shouldn't hide his time with Nagato.  I admit, I thought initially Kyon would try to be discreet knowing that Haruhi might have a bad reaction, but not going to undue lengths to stay hidden feels like a good idea--it would speed things up a bit and show that Kyon feels his relationship with Nagato isn't something he'll ever be embarrassed about or hide.  If that's the gist of your thinking on this, too, I'm willing to go with that.


• On Koizumi: that's more or less how my thinking went, too, foreseeing that he would try to push Kyon away from Nagato for fear of Haruhi's reaction.  Something that occurs to me just on the spot is that Kyon could point out that Koizumi is one to fear Haruhi where Kyon is willing to show trust that she can grow and deal with things that are averse to her constructively.  At best, this would persuade Koizumi to stop being as much of an obstacle or annoyance, but...that's all really secondary to the story, and I figure his role will shift based on how things develop.  Best not to get too detailed with it in advance, right?


• On Asahina: Agreed, there are a couple minor things that she could do.

Now, for Grahf:

Since you've indicated that this is going to be set after the last released novel I feel that there would have to be something really out of sorts happening in order for Kyon to believe that Haruhi might recreate the world in a fit of jealousy over him seeming to get closer to Yuki. Now I could see it if the IDSE spun the information in a way that made it seem leagues worse than what was actually happening, but then you have the problem of having Haruhi actually believe it. At this point even if they aren't sure of their relationship I don't think it's that much of a stretch to say that Haruhi trusts Kyon and his judgment most of the time.

I would find a growing amount of emotional instability to be more fitting. It gives Koizumi a reason to pry; he wants to vent the pressure off before there actually is an incident. It would also show that Haruhi is conflicted: she considers both people to be her friends, but even if she seems consciously willing to let them try her inner turmoil over it can still represent a problem.

Sorry, I didn't mean to suggest that Kyon really thought Haruhi would remake the world in a fit of jealousy.  More that Kyon feels more comfortable with the possibility of unlocking Haruhi's power in a pinch if she's getting on well with people and not brooding over something.  It's good for Haruhi not to have her distressed about something, and it's good for the brigade's safety, too.  At least, that's the idea.  I think I presented this a bit strongly; perhaps whatever the IDSE do, Haruhi should mostly see through it---or say she sees through it but to herself she's conflicted, like you say?


On Asakura:  that's right, I think I had that plot point buried somewhere in some other notes, and I'm much happier with that than what I have up here.  Asakura wouldn't be Kimidori's attack dog, then, but a potential ally against the consensus of the IDSE.  A volatile and potentially dangerous ally, but an ally of sorts nonetheless.  Kyon would be hesitant at best to accept her, though, and since she's more or less kept under wraps by Kimidori, it might be difficult to justify her getting involved.  I'd be interested to see if there's something that comes to mind regarding her coming into the story in a natural way.


Thank you both for the comments.  I feel like this has been quite helpful in identifying some issues.

[Halbarad]

• Agreed, ultimately Nagato's growth will have to be organic, so it may be a mistake on my part to try to plan around her reactions when I don't know how her reactions are going to feel.  Hm, not sure what to do here, but I'll mull over it and see what I can do to open things up a bit more.

The best recommendation I can make is to just keep an eye on the desired endpoint(s) and focus on the showing the characterization changes. Like you said, it's going to be hard to predict how Yuki is going to react in this, so figuring that out and then adapting those reactions to move the plot towards where you want it to end is probably your best course.

• Right, so lemme elaborate on the IDSE part of the story a bit further: the way I envisioned it, Kyon persuades the IDSE to consider the possibility as an alternative to being fixated on Haruhi.  In the end, the IDSE has the choice to decide, but I admit there was some coolness factor for me, thinking that Kyon could put together such an impassioned argument that he could change the mind of an entire data entity.  But that's all contingent on if the IDSE could be persuaded at all, which seems to be part of what you're getting at.  I guess some of this involves how the IDSE is structured at all.  If it's more like a single computer system with a bunch of programs that have small, well-defined tasks, it would indeed be very resistant to any kind of dismantling.  If it's more like a conglomeration of data creatures, then why would they need to reassert free will at all?  Hm.  Ultimately, I would like to see something where the IDSE lose interest in Haruhi and thus become less of a menacing presence.  I admit, though, if the Entity can't be persuaded Nagato is pursuing a "good thing," then there's no real avenue for doing that.  I'm unsure if that means the goal will have to be discarded or another avenue chosen to get there, but you're right to point out that it is very sticky.

I think having Asakura as an ally in this is a big help. As you said, if it's a conglomeration of distinct, individual programs there's no need to gain 'free will', as she already has it, while if it's more of a collective consciousness composed of a bunch of slave processes that it uses to perform the nuts and bolts of its functions, the emergence of free and distinct will is a definite threat.

If it's the latter, then the IDSE has to know that keeping semi-independent processes in charge of individual interfaces to deal with humanity is a risk to begin with, but perhaps they're simply picking their processes carefully to try to ensure that no one they send in has any predisposition to 'defecting'. The exposure to Haruhi and Kyon that Asakura and Yuki both get might be enough to get them thinking in unusual directions, though.

Given the nature of Asakura's faction and her own actions in early canon, I suspect that her faction within the IDSE is probably one of the biggest proponents of this change -- even knowing that it will probably shatter the IDSE as a whole, I suspect they're willing to bet on individual factions of like-minded processes surviving the breakdown, probably correctly too. They're freed to do whatever they feel is necessary to advance their own cause, and they more or less bootstrap the other factions into having to act on their own rather than waiting for a larger consensus.

She could make an extremely worrisome and frightening ally, but that's half the interesting part of the fic.

• Regarding Haruhi, I did feel like her reaction shouldn't be more typical tsundere stuff.  She's more mature than she was at the onset of canon, and she can push to get more of Kyon's time without being obnoxious about it.  And I do like the notion that Kyon and Nagato's close relationship--one that is outwardly warm--will encourage Haruhi to seek something with Kyon that's less...I dunno, subtextual?
  
  It's interesting you suggest Kyon shouldn't hide his time with Nagato.  I admit, I thought initially Kyon would try to be discreet knowing that Haruhi might have a bad reaction, but not going to undue lengths to stay hidden feels like a good idea--it would speed things up a bit and show that Kyon feels his relationship with Nagato isn't something he'll ever be embarrassed about or hide.  If that's the gist of your thinking on this, too, I'm willing to go with that.

Yeah, that's more or less the case about Kyon's view, I think. He is close friends with Yuki, but given what they've done for each other (even if what he himself has done has mostly been encouraging her and showing willingness to face down the IDSE for her) it's natural that they'd be close. Kyon can skirt the details, but I suspect he could still provide an explanation that would get the gist of the matter across to Haruhi without breaking the masquerade -- I did something similar to this in UR with Kyon's review of Yuki.

If you wanted to keep the romance angle for Yuki in, I'd push it back. One scenario:
1. Yuki and Kyon get closer (just as friends) as she develops more emotions and tries to gain more free will.
2. Haruhi misinterprets this as one or the other of them trying to kick their relationship up a notch into something more romantic, and starts making more overt advances on Kyon herself -- and demanding that he come to some conclusions himself.
3. Yuki sees what Haruhi is doing, compares it with what she's learned about romance, and starts to make her -own- romantic inroads with Kyon -- probably clumsily at first, and possibly as a result of a misunderstanding; she might believe that Kyon and Haruhi stepping up to a romance would mean that the relationship she's got with him gets left by the wayside.

This makes Haruhi's worries about the two of them something of a self-fulfilling prophecy, but could probably be sorted out without any tears if Kyon can work out just what's motivating everyone. Personally, I see Yuki being perfectly satisfied with more or less being Kyon's best friend; even if he's dating Haruhi, I think she's okay remaining a friend and Haruhi's most likely okay with him maintaining that friendship.

[Muphrid]

Yeah, you know, I'm really liking the idea of Asakura as an ally, since it does go so naturally with her dialogue that Grahf quoted.  So, let me follow that for a moment:  Asakura is an ally against the greater consensus of the IDSE, let's say.  The face of that consensus is going to be Kimidori, most likely.  None of that bothers me.  I guess the issues would be how to get Asakura out from under the limited control Kimidori has over her (being able to, what, revoke Asakura's existence if the latter misbehaves?).  I'm thinking Nagato would likely have something to do with that, if anything.  Perhaps she would see an alliance with Asakura's faction as finally beneficial to Kyon and the brigade, under the circumstances.

As far as the romance angle goes, I think I'm content to see how things develop (but Hal, your blueprint seems like a good basic framework if I do want to go down that path in particular).  If I had to say right now, I'd probably go down to 2 with Nagato and stop there.  I admit, there's a certain appeal (to me) to Nagato and Kyon having a relationship that is very close but...transcending (?) of romantic feeling, or something.  Simply not getting into any romantic vibes there feels better to me right at this moment, too.  The closeness between Kyon and Nagato ought to be enough to push Haruhi to get closer.

I guess the other missing piece for me (at this point) is figuring out whether (a) Kyon really is aware Haruhi is attracted to him and (b) why he chooses not to acknowledge that to the reader, to others, etc.  Is he ignoring it because he's uncomfortable thinking about it?  Does he think she's too intense for him at first, but as some of her edge comes off later, it's something he could consider after all?

I realize now that my initial idea (which was very rough) was that he was indeed, on some level, deliberately ignoring the matter, and I thought by forcing him into a position where ignoring it would be counterproductive, Kyon would be compelled to change the circumstances between him and Haruhi, but it occurs to me that Kyon could just as easily think that Haruhi's grown to the point that he's no longer so averse to confronting that issue.

The difference between the two is that the former could connects a little bit with the guilt Kyon felt over not seeing the warning signs of Nagato's breakdown before Disappearance--doing that makes it about more than just him and Haruhi but about the way he approaches things, the way he handles situations.  To what end this would go is, I admit, unclear to me, but this is the kind of thing that is on my mind and that I'm trying to weigh.  I know one reservation I have about this whole line of thinking is that it could end up wandering into unnecessary angst if Kyon beats himself up too much over things that really aren't so much his fault (e.g. he's not the one who designed Nagato to be muted in her expressions, etc.).

[Grahf]

Trying to get Asakura back into the mix might prove to provide some interesting emotional development. This is all speculation of course, but there's always been some questioning to the motivation behind why Yuki brought Ryoko -- or at least a reasonable facsimile thereof -- into the Disappearance!verse. If Yuki does have some attachment, or even in the extreme case something akin to a sisterly affection for Ryoko, then it would be at odds with the fact that she's probably well aware of how Kyon feels about Ryoko.

In the end it probably would come down to Yuki's involvement. Again, drawing from novel 10:

Spoiler: ShowHide

"Well, I'm sorry, but the question of maintaining this form for any extended period is out of my hands. If you have any complaints in that area, I'd suggest you direct them to our lovely senpai [Kimidori] over there and the dominant faction of the Integrated Data Thought Entity. Why don't you try asking Nagato-san? If she agrees to it, why I might even be able to come back from Canada."

Would Yuki want to make a decision that will most likely put her at odds with Kyon? It would give her an opportunity to assert some independence from him as well, and to attempt to express her own opinions on the matter. There's nothing saying that Kyon would necessarily then be on board, but it might also cause him to realize that if Yuki does grow more independent or even free from the IDSE then she'll also have to go independence from relying on his permission to do so as well. After all it would be hypocritical of him to promote her freedom, but then completely veto something she feels strongly about while knowing that she'd probably yield to his discretion in the matter.

I feel that it would at the very least be a good chance to get some interesting dialogue out of the pair.

As for whether Kyon is aware that Haruhi has feelings for him, I feel that at this point his level of obviousness would have to be epic if he hadn't realized something. As to why he hasn't acted, there could be any number of reasons. I think that at this point he's comfortable with the knowledge that if he feels any mutual attraction then it's because of his own volition, rather than the nature of her powers forcing him to reciprocate. Still, unintended consequences of trying to advance their relationship would probably weigh heavily on him. I also feel that for Kyon the status quo is a powerfully attractive thing; he's not going to risk his own place and potentially the place of his friends unless there's a very good reason to do so. Haruhi getting tired of his reticence regarding where they stand would probably qualify as a very good reason in most books.

[Muphrid]

Trying to get Asakura back into the mix might prove to provide some interesting emotional development. This is all speculation of course, but there's always been some questioning to the motivation behind why Yuki brought Ryoko -- or at least a reasonable facsimile thereof -- into the Disappearance!verse. If Yuki does have some attachment, or even in the extreme case something akin to a sisterly affection for Ryoko, then it would be at odds with the fact that she's probably well aware of how Kyon feels about Ryoko.

My gut feeling tells me it may have to do with how Asakura was granted the ability to express emotions (even if she couldn't understand them) vs. how Nagato has little ability to express those feelings.  Asakura is in a lot of ways Nagato's opposite.  I think that makes her someone Nagato hopes to understand.  Whether she could actually have some affection for Asakura--I admit I see the possibility based on Disappearance, but it's something I can't quite see how it would've developed or why, by that point.

Would Yuki want to make a decision that will most likely put her at odds with Kyon? It would give her an opportunity to assert some independence from him as well, and to attempt to express her own opinions on the matter. There's nothing saying that Kyon would necessarily then be on board, but it might also cause him to realize that if Yuki does grow more independent or even free from the IDSE then she'll also have to go independence from relying on his permission to do so as well. After all it would be hypocritical of him to promote her freedom, but then completely veto something she feels strongly about while knowing that she'd probably yield to his discretion in the matter.

I feel that it would at the very least be a good chance to get some interesting dialogue out of the pair.

Indeed, Kyon would have to be on board with what she does.  I guess I could imagine him being very, very hesitant at first, but he'd think better of that, and if Nagato tells him she thinks this is the best course, he would ultimately trust her.

As for whether Kyon is aware that Haruhi has feelings for him, I feel that at this point his level of obviousness would have to be epic if he hadn't realized something. As to why he hasn't acted, there could be any number of reasons. I think that at this point he's comfortable with the knowledge that if he feels any mutual attraction then it's because of his own volition, rather than the nature of her powers forcing him to reciprocate. Still, unintended consequences of trying to advance their relationship would probably weigh heavily on him. I also feel that for Kyon the status quo is a powerfully attractive thing; he's not going to risk his own place and potentially the place of his friends unless there's a very good reason to do so. Haruhi getting tired of his reticence regarding where they stand would probably qualify as a very good reason in most books.

Yeah, I think I agree with this.  Kyon feels to me like a change averse person--but this is what makes Haruhi a good foil to him.  She's proactive, and while she may have been too proactive in the past, I feel like the way she pushes things forward is something that could appeal to him, as long as it's not too fast and in moderation.

[Irrational Behavior]

I don't have much to add, since I haven't internalized the Haruhiverse as much as you veterans have so far. Overall this sounds fascinating.

Can Yuki change her own nature with Haruhi's help? I don't think she can be independent of the IDSE or gain fully human emotions any more than you or I can cast a reality-altering spell.

Kyon will say yes, while there may be pain involved in choosing one's own goals yet failing and other stuff, being able to pursue one's own direction is its own reward, and perhaps instead of pursuing Haruhi's powers, the Entity should consider purusing other goals and allowing different aspects of itself the freedom to do as they please, without an overriding goal of auto-evolution.

Isn't this autoevolution in itself? I mean if the IDSE were to change itself to allow its components emotions and free will, isn't that an entirely new dimension of existence for them?

IDSE must have some kind of feelings already. Why else would it want to evolve, and what is its goal? On the other hand, the human interfaces were created specifically because the thought entity is incredibly different from humans. The big question is, why would something so alien want to experience the universe the same way we do? Yuki and Asakura don't really understand emotions. The emulation is accurate enough to fool humans, but - for the IDSE - what's the point anyway?

[Muphrid]

Asking Haruhi's help would require either letting Haruhi know what the deal is or managing to get her to do it without letting her know about the masquerade?  There might be a possibility there, but I'm not sure I see it.  Do you have something in mind?

As for what autoevolution is, I mean, I guess that's pretty nebulous.  For all its power, the IDSE is still limited in ways that Haruhi is not.  I guess I thought those limitations of power were what the IDSE must want to see lifted.  Autoevolution carries the implication that the self is evolving without external forces, but that could mean a lot of things.

I'd thought Nagato had some level of emotions and free will in general--her actions in Disappearance defied the will of the IDSE, and they were rooted in emotions (even if she couldn't understand them).  What I'm going for (which, admittedly, may be flawed or simplistic) is that these new perspectives and emotions allow the IDSE to pursue other goals, to seek out something other than just the evolution of itself into something greater.  Perhaps part of it could be a refutation of the idea of evolution as a progression from simple to advanced.  The IDSE isn't necessarily meant to make itself better or more powerful, just as humans aren't.  People simply change based on their experiences, as much as time makes more complex and sophisticated things possible.

So, that aspect of it may lie somewhere between "progression is an illusion and one should live in the moment" and "enriching oneself by embracing new experiences and perspectives is an alternative path toward autoevolution too".  I'm not really sure yet; I'll probably pin that point down with the next outline, based on all the feedback so far.

[Irrational Behavior]

So, for the IDSE the quantity of knowledge and experiences would be more important than the quality? I think that's an argument Kyon could successfully make. He's in a unique position to do it. He could even cite the dynamics of the SOS brigade and the existience of factions within the IDSE as a reason to explore individualism.

I think having Haruhi strongarm the IDSE would change the story's mood considerably. Either approach is good, and if Kyon considers both paths you can make the reader wonder if the IDSE would ever agree. Is Kyon presuming to understand too much? I'd love to read a scene where Kyon convinces the IDSE without any help, but it would require serious finesse.

I also appreciate your perspective on evolution. I'm one of the many who disagree with the modern evolutionary synthesis. Although  biological evolution is different, the question of that information's origin is still paramount. Meaningful, codified information comes only from other intelligent sources and can be interpreted only by intelligent beings, or systems designed by intelligent beings (such as computers or Yuki). Now, Yuki is probably modeled after humans. The origin of her emotions is as mysterious as the origin of our DNA.

This parallel is interesting because it could lead to the IDSE taking the new data from humans. It could end with Yuki ascending to godhood.

Oh, yeah. In your story, has the IDSE undergone autoevolution before?

[Muphrid]

Agreed, any interaction between Kyon and the IDSE directly (if such is even possible; I'd originally imagined such a thing, but it seems problematic on several levels now) would require a lit of precision to make it seem plausible.

Right, the evolution take is something that could be pretty interesting for this story.  Time makes increasingly complex systems possible, but that doesn't mean those systems are necessarily better or more superior.  We as human beings are much more susceptible to interruptions in our living conditions than, say, the simplest bacteria.

I don't know that Nagato would want to ascend to "godhood" though.  Perhaps, as the example of enriching herself through emotions and exerting her will, she would become a bit of a celebrity among the various components of the IDSE, but I don't know that she would want to leave the existence she's in.

Has the IDSE undergone autoevolution before?  I can't know for sure.  I'd say probably not, for if it had, one would wonder why it couldn't keep doing so.

[Muphrid]

So here is an in-depth outline, with all the gory details.  I regard outlining to this level of detail as somewhat experimental; I'm well aware that it may leave too little room for things to breathe and grow, but I'm hoping having a clear path ultimately helps me avoid having to figure some things out on the fly--which, at times, I've found very crippling.

Preliminary outline:

1.
1.1. Sunday.  Kyon dreams about the other Nagato (from Disappearance), feeling some regret for shooting down that person that Nagato may have aspired to be.  He tries to settle his thoughts as the Brigade meets up to do a city search.  Haruhi's destination is a used bookstore, and Kyon takes this time to fill in the reader on Haruhi's more relaxed pursuit of the paranormal. Koizumi is encouraged by the relative peace.  Asahina, too, is quite happy, but Kyon isn't sure what will happen to her once she graduates and how that will change the brigade, but this isn't really the time to worry, is it?  That only leaves Nagato, who's as quiet as ever.  Haruhi keeps asking for Kyon's opinion, pointing out books on various esoteric topics Kyon has referred to or mentioned in the past--this isn't really about finding paranormal books but something Kyon might like as a gift for his birthday, which she found out about from Kyon's sister.  Kyon is unaware of this, however, and thus he misinterprets Haruhi's continued asking as trying to get him more involved, which he responds to with only measured interest.  After a fashion, Haruhi declares their time at the shop over, and when Kyon tries to say that Nagato is still looking at books, Haruhi asks Nagato directly, but Nagato is unable to defend herself, as Haruhi says Nagato would speak up if she objected--and also that, if she does object, she should say so herself.  Thus, the Brigade leave, but Nagato slips Kyon a bookmark asking to meet later on: she thinks she may be experiencing an error again.

1.2. After the Brigade separate, Kyon takes a circuitous route, starting toward his home but coming back to the coffee shop per Nagato's request.  He thinks on how Nagato behaved in the days before she stole Haruhi's power, how there were maybe very small signs.  Has he not been paying attention?  When he arrives at the cafe, Nagato is waiting for him in front, and they go together to a table.  She explains how she has been trying to make sense of the error that took hold of her before in the hopes of avoiding a similar breakdown, but she does not understand, and Kyon tries to tell her it's because the Entity made her to hold everything in and be obedient. To Nagato, the idea of going against the Entity's will is difficult to comprehend, but that's exactly what she did, after all.  Nagato doesn't express herself because that isn't what Haruhi expects, and it may disrupt the status quo, but Kyon points out another error incident would disrupt the situation more.  Persuaded, Nagato resolves to think on when and where she might try asserting herself.  Kyon is pleased. (Midway through the conversation, Kunikida runs into them, asking about Tsuruya to make small talk, but he leaves them alone.  Kyon thinks nothing of it, even though Nagato seems slightly on edge, having been seen.)

1.3. The next day, Monday, Kyon goes to school.  He's pestered all morning on his way out the door by his sister, who thinks it's somehow cool for teenage boys to have big birthday parties with their family.  Kyon hasn't cared for parties like that for a while.  It's not bad to see some relatives now and then, but being the center of attention means he's usually expected to make rounds and visit with each and every relative, which can be awkward.  His sister constantly teases that someone important (Haruhi) has been in touch with her about the impending birthday, but Kyon refuses to play games.  Also involved in this conversation is Kyon's mother, a stay-at-home mom who maintains a popular blog on events and attractions within the city--something her parents disapprove of, being traditionalists who think she should stay out of public view.  It's important to Kyon's mother to show the rest of her family that he's a good kid, and that's part of why so many people will be invited, but Kyon silently gripes about how it's nothing he particularly cares for.  The party will be on Saturday, and Kyon's mother is determined to impress, all of which Kyon finds somewhat irritating.

Kyon gets to school and his desk, and Haruhi seems a bit lost in thought.  At first, she's coy with Kyon, asking if he has a secret life outside the brigade (Kyon: I'm the last person you should be asking that question to), but eventually, it comes out that Kunikida mentioned seeing Kyon to Taniguchi, who relentlessly presses Kyon about it.  This is what Haruhi's been asking about, and while she's not confrontational, she seems curious how Kyon and Nagato grew so close.  Kyon is hard-pressed to answer this, growing uncomfortable, but eventually, he tries to enlist Haruhi in helping Nagato, saying that Nagato hasn't felt comfortable standing up for herself or giving her input before, always going along with things.  Haruhi is quite perturbed by this, saying that all brigade members should speak their minds, but Kyon manages to focus that reaction constructively, saying Nagato can be helped this way a little at a time.  Haruhi agrees to think about it, relieving Kyon somewhat.

1.4. At lunch, Haruhi says they should have lunch together and tells Kyon to meet him by the club annex.  She goes quickly to the cafeteria to get something, and Kyon waits outside.  Haruhi comes by with lunch and says they should go to the club room, which is where Nagato will be.  When they get there, Haruhi asks Nagato if she wants to dress up the way Asahina does.  Kyon isn't sure what to make of this, but he thinks Haruhi must be doing this for a reason, so he lets it play out.  Haruhi shoos Kyon out, which irritates him because he leaves his lunch in there, but when he comes in, he finds Nagato in stockings, dressed like a librarian with glasses.  It's very cute, despite Nagato's stone face, and Haruhi starts planning that Nagato would be the Brigade's official secretary, taking minutes during meetings and such.  Nagato seems unenthused with this, and on Kyon's nod, she says she would rather read.  At that, Haruhi is not at all taken aback, and she shoos Kyon out again to get Nagato back in uniform for afternoon classes.  Kyon confronts Haruhi about this charade afterward, noting that Haruhi must've had that librarian outfit there all along, and Haruhi is guilty there, but hopefully Nagato has more of a sense of how to express herself, and Haruhi thinks that is good.  Kyon is relieved to have Haruhi's help in that matter, but as Haruhi goes back to return her lunch tray to the cafeteria, Kyon runs into Kimidori, who says they must soon speak on how Kyon is undermining the Entity.

2.
2.1. Kimidori leaves Kyon to think on that for the rest of the afternoon classes, with Kyon keenly aware how he and the Entity are not on good terms.  His view of the interfaces it that they're not human, not relatable, save for Nagato, and as such, discussions with them may not be so productive. The afternoon goes quickly, as Haruhi has no specific plans but she monopolizes the computer, forbidding anyone else from looking at what she's doing, save for Nagato (who would never speak of it anyway).  When Kyon gets his shoes to go home, he finds a note from Kimidori, asking to meet.  Nagato is near, offering to accompany him.  They meet with Kimidori on the rooftop, the place where Nagato, Asakura, and Kimidori watched when Haruhi was attacked by Kuyou.  Kimidori says that Nagato has directives from the consensus of the IDSE, and Kyon's advice is interfering with that.  Kyon argues that such obedience and suppression of her reactions is stifling Nagato and will only cause another incident, and Kimidori would sooner have Nagato repurposed (destroyed) than help her.  Kyon insists he will help Nagato find herself as he sees fit, and he holds the trump card.  Kimidori is unamused.

2.2. The next morning, Tuesday, Haruhi comes in with a mysterious note, bearing the same symbol that she put on the grounds of East Middle with John Smith.  It's not necessarily supernatural, so it's not the Brigade's business, but Haruhi tries to recruit Kyon in finding out who put that drawing in her mailbox, but this involves her telling him about John Smith, and that makes Kyon panic, trying to weasel out of it, which confuses Haruhi.  Kyon consults Nagato at lunch, who tells him that the IDSE do not know what Kyon did that day to encourage Haruhi, but they know what Haruhi left behind for them.  They hope Haruhi will inadvertently nullify the trump card, whatever it is (and Kyon should not discuss it with Nagato).  Like with putting Nagato up to contacting the SCD, this seems like a petty gesture to hassle Kyon more than an effective measure, but it still causes problems.  Eventually, Kyon makes a point to go back to Haruhi and pretend he was just offended she never mentioned it and was jealous of John for having such an influence on Haruhi's life.  This puts them back on good terms for now, but when Haruhi plans to investigate this happening, Kyon knows it will be difficult.  (It's safest if Haruhi ends up telling Kyon as little as possible, of course, so Kyon will probably try to end the conversation initially before Haruhi can say too much.)

2.3. Brigade activities that afternoon consist of going around Haruhi's neighborhood to find out who left the card in Haruhi's mailbox.  Of course, most of the neighborhood parents are well aware of Haruhi's nature and put up with her as best they can.  Koizumi takes this time to approach Kyon about the wisdom of this course: the only reason they are in this mess is because Kyon insisted on interfering with the IDSE for Nagato's sake, yet he is reluctant to use the "trump card" to make Kimidori's interference impossible.  Kyon examines the possibility, ultimately rejecting it.  Destroying the IDSE outright or altering them with Haruhi's powers isn't something he should do without serious thought--ethics as a discipline can be convoluted and overdone, but this is a big deal.  Further, it would mean revealing that he is John Smith to Haruhi.  That would change everything.  Haruhi holds that person dearly in her heart.  Kyon will not consider walking into that position lightly, yet Koizumi is amused that Kyon doesn't think himself already there, and he resents the notion that he is supposed to walk in and make Haruhi the picture of stability.  Koizumi points out that Kyon is in a difficult position: keeping the status quo will be difficult, and figuring out the right course means figuring out what Kyon wants out of it.  Nagato is becoming more involved, more human.  What's more important: Nagato's growth, Haruhi's stability, their friendships, something else?  Like it or not, the Entity has reacted to Kyon like he's provoked them.  Standing pat may seem like the easiest course, but inaction is a choice like any action is, and Kyon may have to consider deeds that he'd rather avoid.  While Koizumi has tried to keep Haruhi's power contained in the past, he now has faith that Kyon can guide her toward using those powers well, if the need should arise.  Their discussion concludes with one of Haruhi's neighbors saying she saw a man walk by Haruhi's house.  Kimidori seems intent on constructing an elaborate charade to keep the topic of John Smith fresh in Haruhi's mind, so that the trump card can eventually be invalidated.

2.4. The Brigade will reconvene the next day, but Kyon is troubled over Kimidori's activities.  He and Nagato speak on the way back to his home, and Nagato follows him not to be inconvenient.  Nagato explains more of the current situation within the Entity, how different factions are interested in pursuing Haruhi's powers.  The Conservative faction, led by Kimidori, is becoming unusually concerned over the threat Kyon poses, thus explaining Kimidori's actions.  For now, the Radicals are in alignment, approving of anything that helps provoke Haruhi, for they all want the prospect of auto-evolution, but perhaps the Radicals can be convinced to take a different course of action.  Kyon right away suspects that Nagato is referring to Asakura, and initially, he is greatly opposed.  When they reach Kyon's home, Kyon's sister comes out to "play" with Nagato, who tries engaging her gently.  This reinforces to Kyon that Nagato is earnest in everything she does, and she does not suggest this lightly.  As Nagato and Kyon's sister play, Kyon comes to terms with the idea.  He gives Nagato his approval, and on the street outside Kyon's house, Nagato summons Asakura to their service.

3.
3.1. The next afternoon (Wednesday), Kyon goes to check on Nagato and Asakura after Nagato skips school for the day.  Asakura is staying with Nagato for the time-being, and as Kyon arrives, Asakura expresses some level of disapproval over Nagato's furnishings, offering to spice the place up with decorations and other adornments.  Nagato is indifferent on this point, or perhaps even seeing the bright side of letting the place have some more personality, but Asakura's take-charge attitude is disturbing to Kyon, who is concerned on the influence Asakura will have--Nagato should not aspire to be like her.  Not in all ways, though having more outward personality and freedom of will may help in the long run.  At any rate, Asakura has been thinking on the problem Kyon and Nagato face: ultimately, Kyon doesn't want to destroy the Entity, and Asakura's faction understands that.  As for the free will Nagato is pursuing, Asakura thinks it interesting enough to let it play.  The thing they have to do is keep Kimidori from making Kyon's life and security difficult.  Asakura is eager to test her data manipulation abilities against Kimidori's in combat, but that could be disruptive to earth, and Nagato and Kyon nix the idea, so instead, they plan to have Asakura watch out for any illusions that Kimidori might propagate and nullify them, so that things can return to the status quo.  With this agreed, Kyon bids the ladies a good night.

3.2. The next day, Thursday, Haruhi takes the brigade back to her neighborhood, where she pesters a nosy neighbor into giving her footage from their security cameras. Haruhi watches the footage fastidiously, and Kyon worries that a man meant to resemble him will appear.  When Haruhi is distracted, sure enough, such an image appears, but Asahina and Koizumi keep her attention away while Nagato alters the image back to what it was.  When Kimidori tries to fabricate more evidence, Asakura intercepts her, preventing further action without a confrontation that Haruhi would notice.  Haruhi leaves, dejected, and confides in Kyon that perhaps it's for the best, as she's largely moved on from that time in her life.  She tries to ferret out what a good gift for Kyon might be, as subtly as she can, saying it's unhealthy for a boy to have no specific interests (outside of Brigade interests).  Kyon suggests video games, and Haruhi seems to consider this seriously.  As Haruhi mopes again about not being able to find John Smith, Kyon considers cheering her up, and she seems to need it, but he resists the temptation to get closer to Haruhi, and she stiffly bids him good night.

3.3. The next morning, Friday, Kyon is pestered once more about his looming birthday by his sister and mother, who come in with a package from Sasaki containing various poems.  Kyon thinks this rather apt and reads from them on the way out the door, where he's greeted by Kimidori.  The IDSE is growing more impatient with Kyon's obstinance.  Interfaces like Nagato, Kimidiori, and Asakura were created for specific purposes.  They were not meant to have free will.  This is one aspect of the Entity that is important: they do not create life and add it to their numbers wantonly, and the experiences of interfaces with humans threaten to poison the Entity with human ideas and values.  Humans are only interesting as far as their abilities to manipulate data are considered, and Haruhi exemplifies that.  Kimidori bears a warning: Kyon must stop encouraging Nagato, but Kyon rejects Kimidori for a second time.  Nagato's wellbeing is paramount to him, and the IDSE has shown no value to human life or to Earth.  So rejected, the IDSE start another scheme: it starts a rumor that Kyon and Nagato have become involved, replete with photographs.  Kimidori asks Kyon pointedly why he thinks Nagato wants to be more human.  In Kimidori's judgment, what Nagato wants is antithetical to the status quo, and if Kyon is going to be so cavalier about altering the status quo for the Entity, Kimidori will do the same for his life.

3.4. Kyon spends most of the moring as the target of various rumors and inneundo, particularly in regards to Taniguchi, who spews endlessly about catching Kyon and Nagato "in the act" one time.  Haruhi, for her part, doesn't say a word about it.  When asked by fellow students, she curtly suggests prying into their love lives instead.  Kyon is concerned what kind of effect all this attention will have on Nagato and tries to excuse himself to see her, prompting Haruhi to offer join him, but Kyon refuses.  For one, he can't speak freely with Haruhi there about the true nature of the situation.  Second, it could be perceived by the school as rejecting Nagato for Haruhi.  Kyon doesn't care about that, but it's the only logical reason he can think of not wanting Haruhi there that isn't the truth.  Haruhi agrees too readily, and Kyon recognizes that tranquil fury. She's being petty and immature by stewing over things like this, and Kyon is fed up with dealing with what she's hiding.  He tries to take her to task for it, but Haruhi spins that right back on him. She knows she's being petty, and she's not pleased with herself that she shows it that much, but all Kyon had to do was say that it bothered him. Haruhi thought she'd been pretty obvious about how she felt, and from Kyon's reaction she wasn't wrong, so the real question is why Kyon's getting so worked up about it.

4.
4.1. Over lunch, Kyon takes the time to reexamine his approach toward Haruhi.  Yes, he's suspected for some time she was in love with him, and the prospect frightened him. It was enough that he wanted to avoid thinking about it.  They are fundamentally unequal while Kyon knows things about her, about John Smith, that she's yet to confide in him, not to mention powers or the masquerade.  While Kyon is so befuddled, he runs into Asahina, who notices his disquiet and offers to cook something for him soon to cheer him up.  Not two seconds after she leaves, he's visited by Asahina (big), who is posing as a substitute teacher or government education official for the day, and who's come based on her knowledge of what really was troubling Kyon.  Asahina knows the significance of this day and reflects on how her "bosses" had anticipated this event: some with trepidation, others with hope it would keep Haruhi from further alterting time.  In the end, the consequences were impossible to predict, so Asahina went on a leap of faith: to trust that Kyon would do what was best for himself and for Haruhi and that the future would be better off for that choice.  Kyon should have the same faith in himself, too. 

(Asahina can mention that her younger self didn't want to press Kyon, even knowing about all the rumors, but Kyon must've appreciated her discretion; Kyon was not aware younger Asahina was aware, however, so older-Asahina has set into motion another mole incident.)

4.2. Emboldened, Kyon goes to speak with Nagato, willing to admit the possibility that Nagato has formed some attraction to him, too, based on her fantasy world of Disappearance.  When he finds her, she's with Kimidori also, as the two are trying to negotiate some kind of amicable settlement.  Kimidori has been trying to convince Nagato to let them "fix" her of her own volition, knowing that this path of hers could lead to grave instabilities, but Nagato will not relent, even knowing that while Kyon may be there for her now, Haruhi may come first.  Nagato is keenly aware of this possibility, but she insists on going on because if she is happy, she will be able to share that, and if she is sad, there will be at least one person there to tell her she isn't alone.  Kimidori is displeased, promising drastic measures to keep the IDSE untainted and from blowing apart, but she retreats, and Nagato tries to smile for Kyon--a soft-spoken, yet definite smile.

4.3. Afternoon classes go quickly, as Kyon has a lot on his mind.  His interactions with Haruhi are stiff but cordial, and she calls off brigade activities for the day, asking instead that Kyon help her with her John Smith investigation--not as a brigade activity, because then she could order it.  Kyon agrees.  Haruhi takes him to East Middle, not explaining but just looking, saying that's where she met John the first time.  She thinks that night was the first time she really thought about making a difference with the world, that it was possible instead of futile.  That's why she wants to meet John Smith: to tell him he inspired her.  Of course, none of that would've been possible without Kyon giving her a kick in the pants, but things are changing.  Once Haruhi goes to university, she doesn't expect to run into John Smith ever again.  She'll do her damndest to keep the Brigade together in spirit, with regular meetings, but something in her tone of voice betrays that she knows it will be difficult.  The world moves on.  Things that were important to her may not be so important after all.  This spurs Kyon on to think on what's important to him.  This girl has grown.  Just as Nagato is changing, so is Haruhi.  Kyon has a birthday party on Sunday, and he asks Haruhi to attend, along with the rest of the Brigade, though it may prove awkward.  Haruhi tentatively accepts, pretending that she hadn't known about it for some time and protesting that she can't find a gift on such short notice.  She insists the Brigade get together the next day to find gifts for him, and Kyon acquieses.

(At some point, Haruhi should see Kyon reading Sasaki's poetry book, with Kyon attempting to come up with some poems himself.)

4.4. That evening, Kyon sits through more preparations for the party before retiring to his room, where he finds Kimidori.  Kimidori immediately asserts herself as a physical threat, isolating Kyon's room with far stronger fortifications than Nagato could ever hope to break through.  They will have a private chat.  Surely Kyon is sympathetic.  The Entity has survived since the dawn of time only by taking threats to its cohesion very seriously, but Kyon will have none of it.  The Entity has shown no compassion toward human life as a whole, but Nagato can and has.  As Nagato and Haruhi have pointed out, change is inevitable, and perhaps the Entity should realize that.  Kimidori's threats don't faze Kyon; while Kimidori seems to think of Kyon's body as little more than a piece of meat that can be made to live or die at will, Kyon points out that Haruhi would never let him die, or even if she did, she wouldn't let his death go unpunished, and that would lead to the destruction of the Entity.  Further, why should Kimidori herself be acting this way, in service of higher powers that would destroy her when her work is done?  Kimidori responds that she was made with a purpose, and she will fulfill it because that purpose can't be extricated from her being.  Still, Kyon is right; harming him is pointless, and Kimidori withdraws.  Soon after, Nagato arrives, offering to protect Kyon for the remainder of this crisis, but Kyon refuses, noting that Kimidori could've killed him easily and must be up to something else.  Sure enough, the next morning, the Brigade meet at the station, but Haruhi is late.  Koizumi gets a call; his agents have discovered that Haruhi is missing.

5.
5.1. It's time to round up the gang and get this figured out.  Asahina, Nagato, and Koizumi go with Kyon to Nagato's apartment, where Asakura lurks, so they can discuss the issue in privacy.  Nagato, for her part, is extremely distressed and distracted (read: only just showing this, but actions significnat enough to tip Kyon off to her state of mind).  She may be "repurposed" at any time, and while Asakura is safe because she still serves her faction, Nagato has no such benefactor anymore.  Kyon does his best to reassure her, not coincidentally noting that at this point, if they wanted her repurposed, they would've done so already.  Koizumi agrees; it's most likely Haruhi is still alive and unharmed to avoid provoking her.  The Entity must want to keep her powers from being used against it, and that gives the group time.  At that, Asahina receives orders from higher up: Asakura and Nagato should be able to craft a data tag to track Haruhi's location, which they can attach to her in the past.  The group agree, and they will all go together to try to make this right.

(What is the Entity's long-term plan here?  Do they want to steal Haruhi's powers the way Nagato did?  If not, what else?  If step (a) is abduct Haruhi, then what is step (b)?  Where is the profit, man?  Should they be hoping to extract as much information about Haruhi's abilities as they can and then disposing of her when it looks like she might exact vengeance?)

5.2. The first stop is last night, after Kyon and Haruhi parted.  Nagato gives Haruhi the data tag but is challenged by Kimidori, who synchronizes and realizes what the plan must be.  Asakura, as a loose cannon, goes to attack Kimidori and deflect attention from Nagato, whom she's grown fond of.  This gives the rest of the group the chance to escape with Asahina, even knowing that if Kimidori is to abduct Haruhi, she must've succeeded in defeating Asakura.

Even after the group return to the present, there's precious little time to waste.  Asahina takes them as close as she can to where they must go: a warehouse being surrounded by data jurisdiction.  The group sneak inside with Nagato's help and they find Haruhi asleep inside the warehouse.  Asakura reappears, ostensibly to help them, but when Kimidori and her cohorts entrap them, Asakura reveals she's been reprogrammed by Kimidori and tries to stab Kyon in the back.  Nagato puts herself at risk to defeat Asakura and Kimidori, and Kyon scrambles to wake Haruhi up.  Kyon tries to persuade Haruhi to wipe the Entity away, but Kimidori kills Haruhi before Kyon can finish.  Haruhi, with her dying breath, is confused and thinks John Smith is with her, but she tells "John" that she's met someone who's just as inspirational as he ever as; she's moving on with her life, and it's okay that they didn't get to meet.  She was happy with the life she had.  With that, Kimidori has Nagato wiped away and prepares to withdraw with Asakura, but Kyon spots Yasumi Watahashi (through a window of the warehouse) and realizes Haruhi is still alive.  She revives, and thinking this experience a dream, she sets right what has gone wrong:  she brings back Nagato, she restores Asakura, and she fights with Kimidori, defeating the interface, after which she falls asleep, exhausted.  Kyon entrusts Asahina to take Haruhi back home to rest.

(Might be nice at some point if there's a closed space involved so Koizumi is more than just tag along useless, but not sure where this should go.)

5.3. After the battles, Kyon goes home, only to have a reconstructed Kimidori drop by.  The Entity anticipates Kyon will ask Haruhi to wipe them out.  They basically beg for his mercy, saying that the idea of constructs within the Entity choosing their own courses threatens the cohesion of the Entity as a whole.  It may no longer exist in the long run, and even if it does, it may no longer pursue auto-evolution thanks to Haruhi.  Kyon doesn't know what to say to that, so he goes to visit Nagato and Asakura.  Nagato, for her part, is enjoying the chance to read, but she notes that having the Entity interfere in life on Earth, even if Haruhi is capable of fully protecting mankind, is "stressful."  That's putting it mildly.  Based on Nagato and Asakura's advice, Kyon makes his decision: he doesn't want to be repsonsible for wiping out a whole race of creatures.  The Entity will live, but on his terms.  They should live learning from Nagato's example; maybe that will give them the chance to evolve themselves.  After all, the most remarkable thing about Haruhi over the last couple years isn't her powers (not to Kyon), but her capacity for growth and change.  That is what the Entity should learn from; not all the Entity wil listen, but Asakura's faction has, and that's a start.  For now, the Entity and Kyon are at peace.

5.4. The rest of the day goes by quietly.  Kyon makes it known to his mother that he doesn't wish to have this birthday party next year; his mother is resistant at first, but she realizes that Kyon making this decision on his own is more important for his growth than showing him off to the relatives.   He's not going to pretend he's going along with a decision anymore, even if he goes with it to smooth things over.  He and his mother come to an understanding on this.  Sunday is the party, and Kyon does his best to mingle with the relatives, as much as he can stand it.  The Brigade come partway through, along with Kunikida and Taniguchi, Sasaki and Tachibana, and a few other members of Kyon's class.  It's quite an affair, and Kyon takes a special interest in Nagato, who tries to entertain the guests.  After stressing out all weekened about what to say to Haruhi, Kyon finds out she thinks what happened with Kimidori was an illness induced dream/hallucination, which she laughs off, and Kyon is momentarily jealous that Asahina got to strip Haruhi down into clean clothes.  Kyon realizes he has a story to tell Haruhi, and she encourages him with a writing pad, to create poems and write with--this is her birthday gift to him.  After Haruhi goes back to drag Nagato, Koizumi, and Asahina into an impromptu performance, Kyon asks Haruhi more about John Smith, resolving to let go of the trump card.  Haruhi implicitly trusts him now, and he won't hold that leverage over her anymore.  They'll meet for coffee and to hear about that story.  That will be their first date.

(End)

[Arakawa]

Some comments on the outline.

1.1-1.4 -- that's fine, I like the story idea and the general interaction. The whole "Kyon's eccentric mom vs. traditionalist parents face off to be decided via birthday party" thing seems like it has the potential to be very interesting, or kind of tedious, depending on how that's handled.

2.1 -- also great.

2.2-2.4 -- this part of it kind of feels like it grinds to a halt. The things that came before were setting up for the characters to go some new places, but here the overall outline consists of the exact elements you'd expect in any other fic with this sort of situation. IDSE is being nasty overreaction to new development! Kyon angsts over trump card and wanting to keep the status quo, but things must change somehow! Koizumi explains Kyon's dilemma to Kyon for audience benefit! IDSE has complicated-as-hell internal political thing! The topic of Asakura comes up, and Kyon has extreme visceral dislike! -- it's all fairly well-trodden ground.

It feels like the way this plays out could be mixed up a little. The most plot-unobtrusive thing I can think of to change is how Kyon reacts to Asakura. One thing that's interesting to contrast might be how Kyon views Nagato vs. Asakura -- Nagato is definitely a person, but Asakura is at best a resource to exploit, and at worst a dangerous monster. That might be the subject of some musings more interesting than "ick! killer robot yandere girl!"

Or, maybe this could be fine, given that it's just one chapter of rote-fic to power through, and there are still interesting little scenes in the current outline of it.

3.1. I guess the "what kind of personality is Nagato going to develop?" question here is more important to the actual story, than the whole anti-IDSE strategy question.

3.2-3.3. This seems on track. The conversation with Kimidori seems like a retread of the earlier reasoning / conflict discussion, obviously escalating to a more vehement level here. If you think about it, underneath all pretense of diplomacy their basic negotiation boils down to something like:

<Kimidori> We don't much care about keeping humanity intact!

<Kyon> Well, I don't much care about keeping the IDSE intact!

* They stick out their tongues at each other.

3.3. Painful but necessary.

3.4. Here as I understand it, Haruhi is trying to act magnanimously, but her actual feelings preclude that? The question is how self-aware she is of being immature.

4.1 Something or other with an Asahina(big) appearance? I don't really get the significance of this besides giving Kyon someone to confide in -- in which case there could have been more reasoning here about how Kyon reacts to what Asahina(big) has to say?

(And, for that matter, is Asahina(big) really that trustworthy to confide in from Kyon's perspective? Never mind, he isn't mentioned as even teling her anything, but the question remains of what exactly this scene helps him to figure out besides becoming generically 'emboldened'.)

4.2. Good scene. I think this is... the last of Nagato's plot thread? You need to develop this further; she kind of fades into the background after this scene.

I know the problem the rest of the story seems to be solving is how to get Kyon together with Haruhi, but everything that came before was building up Nagato's character. There are a zillion ways for Nagato to develop her personality besides 'becoming able to smile sincerely' and 'falling in love with Kyon'. She needs some kind of human-scale interests. If she's going to live life as a human, what sort of life will it be? (It might be interesting if she develops an interest in some artistic/aesthetic area rather than technical/scientific one. That would definitely be a situation where sheer computational power doesn't take away her room to develop.) In terms of her relationship with Kyon, it seems reasonable to go more for an 'older brother / younger sister' dynamic than for shipping. (Groundwork for this could be laid earlier on in the story.)

One thing to think about is how Nagato's humanized version in this is going to be different from disappearance!Nagato, and how Kyon would react to that contrast. Say, for instance, here Nagato may well be soft-spoken, but much more assertive underneath; in any case, she's her own person, and the flip side of that is that Kyon doesn't get disappearance!Nagato back, contrary to his earlier dream. (Trigger some kind of second dream sequence for someone where disappearance!Nagato appears to get some closure?)

4.3. This sounds like a good pivotal scene. (Again, conditional on Nagato's further development not being totally dropped to focus on it.)

4.4. Again, this is kind of redundant with the last Kimidori confrontation, so it could be streamlined, or you could split the overall thread of reasoning over multiple negotiations, or whatever. It strikes me that there's not that much reason for Kimidori to confront Kyon like this. Maybe Kimidori wants to kill Kyon, he talks her down, so she delivers an ultimatum; after she leaves, Kyon resolves not to cooperate??? Not sure. The IDSE feels like it's sort of flailing at random by this point.

5.1. Ah, your questions also raise the 'IDSE flailing at random?' question. Not sure what to suggest.

5.2. I don't really like the whole "Haruhi death fake-out with Yasumi" thing. "She's dead, but then she's not dead" has happened in about a zillion movie climaxes.

* Arakawa has an outlandish idea for how to resolve the Haruhi / John Smith thing without a near-death state, but will have to think about it some more. It may not pass the laugh test with the more experienced writers on the forum.

As for Koizumi: meh. Not worth it to jam him in at this point :-/

5.3-5.4. Reasonable. This is mostly a 'wrapping up a loose ends' stuff. You could work more resolution for Nagato in here, as I discussed above.

And it ends on a good Kyon/Haruhi shipping note.

The above was mostly off-the-cuff impressions. This is a worthy setup, but the outline gives a sense that some of the character exploration being plotted isn't being taken to its full potential yet. The specific problems -- well, I brought them up in the above. Whenever I suggest something specific, that's probably only one of many possible directions to flesh this out. But the general direction of this is something I'm looking forward to, certainly.

[Muphrid]

Thanks for taking a look at this, Arakawa.  I scribbled this together over a few days, expecting it would have some issues that time, at least, might uncover.

2.2-2.4 -- this part of it kind of feels like it grinds to a halt. The things that came before were setting up for the characters to go some new places, but here the overall outline consists of the exact elements you'd expect in any other fic with this sort of situation. IDSE is being nasty overreaction to new development! Kyon angsts over trump card and wanting to keep the status quo, but things must change somehow! Koizumi explains Kyon's dilemma to Kyon for audience benefit! IDSE has complicated-as-hell internal political thing! The topic of Asakura comes up, and Kyon has extreme visceral dislike! -- it's all fairly well-trodden ground.

And I'm never one to care for well-trodden ground.  I did think on the way through here that the development in this section of the story was turning out very predictable.  There is something missing here, something that could make this situation different and unique.  I'm not sure what that is yet.

Perhaps Kimidori shouldn't be opposed at all.  Obviously that basically undercuts the rest of the story, but let's say the IDSE recognizes it can't oppose Kyon on this.

What then?  Does the Organization get irritated instead?  That would put a lot of focus on Koizumi and creating from whole cloth some stuff about the internals of the Organization.  The big problem I see there is that the espers can't conceivably be considered a physical threat.  Still, perhaps they could be threatening in other ways.

If Asahina's time-travelers got irritated about it instead, I think the path would be about as predictable.  There might be an avenue there, in building off how unsettled Asahina tends to be around Nagato, but it seems pretty narrow.

A completely original antagonist is also possible, but I think that would demand a considerable expansion of the story.  Not a bad thing, just different.

Of course, it may just be unworkable.  I don't think it is, but I think the possibility must be considered as a matter of good practice.

3.2-3.3. This seems on track. The conversation with Kimidori seems like a retread of the earlier reasoning / conflict discussion, obviously escalating to a more vehement level here. If you think about it, underneath all pretense of diplomacy their basic negotiation boils down to something like:

<Kimidori> We don't much care about keeping humanity intact!

<Kyon> Well, I don't much care about keeping the IDSE intact!

* They stick out their tongues at each other.

Yeah...this needs some work too.  I had basically the exact same thought process--they have nothing to negotiate about, nothing to offer each other except threats.  Perhaps Kimidori should be willing to recognize some compromise that will make them both equally unhappy.  She is supposed to be conservative, to be reasonable, after all.

3.4. Here as I understand it, Haruhi is trying to act magnanimously, but her actual feelings preclude that? The question is how self-aware she is of being immature.

Right, this was me trying to avoid what I perceived as more well-trodden ground.  It'd be easy to have Haruhi deny, deny, and go full-on tsundere mode on Kyon about this.  Some self-awareness struck me as being more interesting, at the risk that it makes one wonder how self-aware she's been all this time.  I knew this approach could open up a significant can of worms.  It must be justified (or at least, believable) to stand up.

4.1 Something or other with an Asahina(big) appearance? I don't really get the significance of this besides giving Kyon someone to confide in -- in which case there could have been more reasoning here about how Kyon reacts to what Asahina(big) has to say?

(And, for that matter, is Asahina(big) really that trustworthy to confide in from Kyon's perspective? Never mind, he isn't mentioned as even teling her anything, but the question remains of what exactly this scene helps him to figure out besides becoming generically 'emboldened'.)

This was intended as a pep-talk.  Kyon doesn't need to tell her anything; she knows well enough what's happened.  Now, perhaps Kyon should be wary that Asahina is trying to drive him to a course of action that benefits her interests, but to me, this scene serves as a time for Kyon to catch his breath.  Worrying about grand and lofty consequences does no one any good.  At the least, choosing what his relationship with Haruhi should be based on those issues is a recipe for misery, at least as I see things.

Does Asahina need to be the person delivering this message?  Perhaps not.  It does open up questions of why she needs to make this visit.  Perhaps with some restructuring Nagato could help Kyon come to this understanding instead, using her own decisions to become more human and to make her own choices as a reflection of the dilemma Kyon is facing now.

4.2. Good scene. I think this is... the last of Nagato's plot thread? You need to develop this further; she kind of fades into the background after this scene.

I know the problem the rest of the story seems to be solving is how to get Kyon together with Haruhi, but everything that came before was building up Nagato's character. There are a zillion ways for Nagato to develop her personality besides 'becoming able to smile sincerely' and 'falling in love with Kyon'. She needs some kind of human-scale interests. If she's going to live life as a human, what sort of life will it be? (It might be interesting if she develops an interest in some artistic/aesthetic area rather than technical/scientific one. That would definitely be a situation where sheer computational power doesn't take away her room to develop.) In terms of her relationship with Kyon, it seems reasonable to go more for an 'older brother / younger sister' dynamic than for shipping. (Groundwork for this could be laid earlier on in the story.)

One thing to think about is how Nagato's humanized version in this is going to be different from disappearance!Nagato, and how Kyon would react to that contrast. Say, for instance, here Nagato may well be soft-spoken, but much more assertive underneath; in any case, she's her own person, and the flip side of that is that Kyon doesn't get disappearance!Nagato back, contrary to his earlier dream. (Trigger some kind of second dream sequence for someone where disappearance!Nagato appears to get some closure?)

I think part of the problem I ended up running into is that, while the first chapter's development was great, it all got derailed by this fued with the Entity plot stuff and I couldn't figure out a way to integrate slower moments of Nagato's growth against that plot.  Now, I could easily envision something where most of the heavy stuff is ripped out and we continue following Nagato and Kyon on the former's journey of discovery.  That would be one perhaps without the overt villain, more slice-of-life-like.  I'm not sure what would sustain the piece, though---what Kyon's own conflict would be.  Maybe that would be the avenue to expand more on this Kyon's family storyline that I sprinkled in, but I'm worried there's not enough space to develop that.

Still, idea: let's fastforward to, say, the end of second-year.  Asahina is (ostensibly) graduating and going off to university.  Kyon's conservative grandparents want him to quit the brigade and focus more on his studies.  Amid this backdrop, Nagato is wanting to become more human, and Haruhi has the chance to reflect on the future of the brigade and her relationship with Kyon.  It could work, but I rather liked having a supernatural antagonist--the plot of dealing with that threat helps, in my mind, provide contrast.  But we can also see that made some things more difficult.

Anyway, I think we've hit the core issue--that the plot of struggle against the Entity is just insufficiently new and interesting, and the way I've structured things, it comes at the cost of Nagato's development (which is interesting).  The plotline with Haruhi is not meant to make having Kyon and Haruhi hook up important, but rather to have Kyon confront the tension between them and cut through it, to be willing to upset the status quo to assert what he wants out of the situation, out of life.

It's clear to me that there's still a good deal of work to do in perfecting this story---and that's okay.  That's why I posted this outline at this stage, knowing that I might end up balling it up and throwing it away.  Thanks for taking a look at this, Arakawa.  I think we've identified a major issue; it's just not yet clear to me how best to resolve it.