What are you reading?

[Ebiris]

Just read He Who Fights Monsters up to the current chapter. It's a Rosario + Vampire fic where Moka doesn't run into Tsukune on his first day at Youkai Academy. Not forming an instant friendship with a powerful vampire means Tsukune's own his own in dealing with the merciless inhabitants of the school, having to resort to human ingenuity and cunning to survive, but at the cost of his own humanity.

It's not terribly long so far, but I love the concept, and it doesn't pull any punches with just what it costs Tsukune to keep himself safe without the aid of a powerful harem covering his back.

[Dracos]

It's interesting.  I've been following that fic as well, but the thing that bothers me the most really is that it seems to be pushing Tsukune into a No Win situation.  Sure, fight to survive and all that, but until recently there really didn't seem to be much of a chance of victory.  It was like each action he took sort of made it more likely that he was just going to be surrounded and torn apart.  Even the last one where someone Discovers the Secret who is friendly doesn't really turn into "And you're not Alone".

Mmm.  Well, the being alone part is fine, but really even if he was a monster, you'd kind of expect them to gather up a lynch mob for him.  He's killed several folks so far visibly and doesn't tend to jive with the society around him at all.

[Jason_Miao]

I read that one from time to time, whenever random clicking makes it show up.

My interpretation of it was different; Tsukune wouldn't get lynched, since ruthlessly killing your opposition is what all the "cool monsters" are expected to do.

[Dracos]

I read that one from time to time, whenever random clicking makes it show up.

My interpretation of it was different; Tsukune wouldn't get lynched, since ruthlessly killing your opposition is what all the "cool monsters" are expected to do.

See, if the social reaction was "Man, Tsukune, you're a badass!" I'd agree.  But almost nobody does that.  Instead they fear him.  They talk about how he's the most brutal in class.  The reason seems pretty simple to me: It's socially acceptable to demonstrate dominance by beating someone into the ground...but not by killing them.  By killing them, he becomes scary.

Eh.  Well, sometimes.  I suppose I'd be more okay with it if he did get sort of a frat going "You rock man".  Instead he has 3 social relations: His spider girlfriend (Broken now that truth came out, but she's protecting him),  The Teacher, and his werewolf running mate. 

Don't get me wrong, it's really understandable how he's acting.  It's just (save the most recent chapter), seemed like a slow spiral into doom. :(

[Brian]

Don't get me wrong, it's really understandable how he's acting.  It's just (save the most recent chapter), seemed like a slow spiral into doom. :(

A Deconstruction Too Far?

[Jason_Miao]

Maybe "cool" wasn't the right adjective.  Alpha would probably be better.  Basically, within groups, people will jockey for position with other around their level, but Tsukune is someone to whom everyone has cautious respect, because he's one of the top monsters.

In chapter 4, after the second kill, who was talking with him?  Keito, who is one of the school elite.  Ichiro, track club leader.  Gin, to recruit him into a club that is under oppression.  These are all upperclassmen, but none of these conversations follow the older mentor/younger student mode.  Romance, friendly rivalry, and membership/protection - not something people usually seek from social pariahs.

[Dracos]

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/6813979/1/Be_careful_what_you_wish_for

This would probably be an interesting fic.  Yuka gets summoned by Louise.  Crazy violent woman summon.

If it didn't lift scenes regularly from Hill of Swords....  Yeah, just too many 'I remember reading this scene in another fic.' moments by chapter 5.

[Brian]

Wow, all of these are making the Haruhi/FoZ crossover I started look more reasonable for not using a violence hero.

[Ebiris]

While I did rather like that one, there was absolutely no reason for the genderswap and it would have been able to define itself better without that aspect.

[Dracos]

The setting just doesn't really provide much room for Hero without sufficient badass powers to come in.  It transplants them in the original protagonists, but basically does kind of set things up with:
1)There is a horrible war coming and the pieces to start it have almost been finished moving before hero even gets summoned.
2)Main country simply is not strong enough to win the day.  Without Epic Hero entry, they fold, all main characters captured/killed (Could be neat...once? But nobody wants the bad guys to win)

Ebiris:
There's sections of it that are original.  I think had it not been lifting, I would've thoroughly enjoyed it.  I did enjoy the guy's original writing sections in it, but it just made me wince each time I got to a scene and realized "...That's shirou talking now, Yuka wouldn't do that."

Does it break out of the mold later?  I got to chap 5 before I just was annoyed at too many scenes pretty much having Yuka act out as Shirou instead of being grinning flower girl of doom.

[Ebiris]

It's not just Hill of Swords, it's evoking a lot of the same bits hit by the anime. If Yuka had been a girl (and less inclined to obfuscate her powers) we could have had a much more divergent beginning in terms of character relationships, and paved the way for further divergences down the line.

The 'jaded mentor' bits like Shirou in Hill of Swords don't really abate much.

[Brian]

Drac, perception check that.  Non-violence!=non-badass.

[Dracos]

Drac, perception check that.  Non-violence!=non-badass.

Fair, but I mean, the setting requests someone willing to take out an army.  It does provide powers to do that with, but just saying that plays to strong hero types willing and able to use violence as a method of conflict resolution.

[Brian]

Fair, but I mean, the setting requests someone willing to take out an army.  It does provide powers to do that with, but just saying that plays to strong hero types willing and able to use violence as a method of conflict resolution.

While that's valid, I find that since the setting gives the summoned character power, it's much more interesting to take a character that's a badass morally and responsibility-wise -- someone who would be a martial pacifist, if he had the martial part.  The more we discuss this, the more I consider reviving that FoZ/Haruhi crossover--  If only to explore a rational, capable-of-kicking-your-ass, genre-savvy, level-headed (+tsundere-handler, also allowing Louise to have someone who's a foil as a genuine mentor/big-brother character) main character.  Also, wasn't really satisfied with where that one left Haruhi herself, so getting her into the FoZ universe and back with Kyon would have been nice--

But I digress.

I mean, I'm not that familiar with Touhou, but I lost interest in chapter one what with the summon saying, "So, yeah, generally light-hearted/silly opening, where some slightly reluctant hero is joined to Louise's cause/contracted?  I'm death incarnate, and am going to belittle/degrade everyone onscreen but Louise -- and directly offer to slaughter everyone in the scene except for her while I'm at it."

Felt very :|

[Dracos]

In fact, it was very :|.  It, among other scenes, comes across as 'I lifted this from Hill of Swords', as I generally follow the interpretation that well... http://hijiribe.donmai.us/post/show/462744/-_-4koma-blue_hair-cirno-closed_eyes-comic-cosplay http://hijiribe.donmai.us/post/show/990002  Yuka is a sociopathic yandere.

She would be fun/different in the setting, mainly on the lacking of real morality.  The type of summoned beast that basically just started beating people to death and requires bemusement to keep sated.  Summoning Yuka into the world and contracting her should be like summoning a crazed beast that only sometimes thinks you are intelligent enough to talk to.

I won't contest that your Kyon one might be lots of fun, and true the setting provides sufficient power.  I'd simply say: It takes a better writer to pull off a diplomatic hero against the ZnT backdrop. =)

Edit:

I want to yammer more.  Shirou was interesting because it was someone choosing to be a servant and invokes the requirement that you be a great master.  Shinji is interesting in calling someone who doesn't want to live.  Maya is interesting because she brings Death as a concept into a world of children with sticks, not just threatening it but killing someone in the opening duel scene ("And their world was forever changed").  Ranma is interesting because he's frankly so much better at providing a whirlwind of romantic comedy as a focus than the main lead that totally changes the flavor.  And yes, if Brian goes with his whim and writes Kyon, it will probably be interesting by choosing someone who Resolves Conflict rather than promotes it or uses it.

The interesting angle when folks write an FoZ fic is: We begin the fic with introducing a vastly foreign element into a land on the brink of disaster and place them under an immature little bitch with powers she does not understand and no self-confidence to speak of, how does this change the world?

Yuka should've been interesting in calling something you would never want to be a servant.  Someone that would be wholly unsuitable for the kind of control/petty games that make up a good deal of the manga.  Having her casually ignore louise to make a garden, or murder guiche when he challenges her, or slaughter the thief.  Someone who would give Louise a mental breakdown by training her in torturous and violent methods (and hey, the guy doing that was one of the better scenes).    It's something that really should've hopped the rails quickly (In the same way the Maya fic does, but the color Yuka stains things with is that of an immortal beast, not a little girl that is willing to kill).  It's someone who really would only play inside the rules because she's lonely or bored.  Not because she has to or thinks it is Right.