[Ranma/SM] Hell is a Martial Artist (Spoilers)

[Dracos]

Hmmm.  On that...

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Overall I kind of liked it.  I think the delivery was a bit weak, but it was something lead up to for a while.  An Akane that has victory in her hands, but flubs it by rejection and being really just as devious as all the girls act in Ranma (I have an advantage, I must abuse it!), a Nodoka who has no room for compromise, and a Ranma who basically has been having funtimes swapping gender back and forth.  It's an Ozz fic so even when it isn't Ranma-chan, it's really not at all surprising to see 'Reject Ranma-chan?  Narrative Antagonist".

The moon crew got outed, and at the same time Ranma's now treading a strange line with them (Hey he's on team evil...and on team good?)  Kind of weak/muddied, but a potentially interesting setup.  Ranma on the other hand is being a 'well meaning friend' in outing Mamoru as a playboy.  Which my canon-fu might be weak, but he does at least play the field a bit.  I'm not sure when in canon it's placing the moon crew though.  Definitely post Starlight it seems.

The delivery in a sense feels weak.  Sort of muddied.  But at least it's actually saying "Hey, Things are Changing based on what has happened so far", rather than another neutral 'And life continued much as it has'.

Leaves a curiousity as to what will happen with Ukyo.  Shampoo is pretty much not a contender in this take.  Akane is dead in the water.  Ukyou was played as having lost early by choosing go Anti-Hild strong (Kinda weird/stupid for her really, in a fashion that feels moreso than Akane's Don't Like Girls or Shampoo's just You're a Non-Contender). The adoption angle kind of bans a hild/Ranma matchup, so it sort of leaves as an open where it'll go without any real meaningful contenders on the playing field all of a sudden.

Edit: Moved/renamed thread; traditional rename timed out, so needed to edit your post.  (Sorry.)

[Yuthirin]

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Akane's reactions are believable. Her reaction to Ranma-chan is normal for a heterosexual in Japan(I believe), and Nodoka's response is real, too. It's not really surprising, considering all the prss she gets for the manly clause in her agreement with Genma.

I was really expecting Ranma/Hild, and I'm pleasantly surprised that I was wrong. There's still room for Akane to recover here and salvage what the relationship was becoming, so I'm looking forward to seeing where this will go.

[Anastasia]

Adding my two cents in.

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This was a really strong chapter. It wasn't a big blow up that got Ranma, it was other people refusing to accept Ranma, both as himself and as the Ranma Hild has carefully cultivated. That was the heart and soul of this chapter; this is a Ranma that's accepted his curse and started taking action. The center cannot hold, and no one else has truly changed.

Ukyo...? Hm. I have a suspicion that if there is a matchup here, it'll be her. She's the only one who hasn't completely blown things, plus she might be willing to accept Ranma's choices about his girl form. Maybe. Hild doesn't want much to do with her, but Ranma may still want to try and salvage something there. This could easily fall apart or miss; at worst, I suspect Ukyo will get out of things relatively unscathed if not victorious. She hasn't played things so wrong as to be in the crossfire as of yet. One other thing - Ozzallos usually portrays Ukyo in a sympathetic light, but has never written a Ranma/Ukyo fic. It's part of why I suspect this might happen.

Nabiki got what she had coming. I have a suspicion Ranma is going to get at least a say in what happens to Nabiki's soul, if not outright possession of it. He already said she could use some time in Purgatory, doing the deed himself is a logical extension of that and further embracing everything Hild stands for. If it wasn't for that author's note at the end of the chapter, I might think he'd turn Nabiki into a servant or agent. That's not happening now, she's hardcore screwed at least for awhile.

Akane? No chance. I'm about 99.99% sure she blew any chance she had, and the .01 will get shot down or manipulated away by Hild. In fact, I suspect Hild doesn't really want Ranma in a relationship with anyone else. She doesn't want to share his love and attention, even if it's not in a romantic sense. It's why Akane and Shampoo are doomed and Ukyou only has a small shot.

As far as Mamoru goes, he's a bit of a playboy. Not seriously, as he's deeply dedicated to Usagi. I think it's either a misunderstanding or he was manipulated into it. After all, unless you wanna go all Crystal Tokyo is evil here, why would Hild be supporting Sailor Moon and by extension that possibility? Granted, I could see Ozzallos doing that, as he plays loose with Sailor Moon on the best of days.

[Jason_Miao]

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I think that, on the whole, I liked it.  I'm wondering how the story will be written from here, onwards, since it's been slices interjected in between the canon.  (Long) vignette style, perhaps?

The Nabiki soul harvesting at the end was pretty weak.  It comes off as petty, and I think it was a poor way to end the chapter.  Right after rewriting reality, Hild takes a dig at a mortal family?  Meh.  If it has to be done (for plot purposes further along the line), then at least end the chapter at the high point - namely, bringing Ranma into the family.

One question that immediately came to mind: If Hild did rewrite reality, then why do Kasumi and Nabiki still remember Ranma?  I'd think that the past would have retroactively changed to fit Ranma as Hild's child.  If not, then what is the practical effect of this rewrite that couldn't have been implemented by just formally adopting Ranma?  I hope I'm wrong, but this feels like the kind of thing he did in Heir to the Empire - introduce BIG and IMPRESSIVE things sentient battleships and takeover of Japan just for the sake of being BIG and IMPRESSIVE.  Which, of course, rarely works.

[Anastasia]

Replies in further spoiler boxes. Hopefully quotes work in them!

Spoiler: ShowHide

The Nabiki soul harvesting at the end was pretty weak.  It comes off as petty, and I think it was a poor way to end the chapter.  Right after rewriting reality, Hild takes a dig at a mortal family?  Meh.  If it has to be done (for plot purposes further along the line), then at least end the chapter at the high point - namely, bringing Ranma into the family.

I'm fine with it and felt it was perfectly in character. Hild finally has family again and you know what? This family hurt her child. They made Ranma miserable, broke his heart and failed to help him in his ultimate moment of need. So Hild takes revenge in the best way she can; Nabiki foolishly sold her soul so she goes and collects on that debt. It was a little petty, but at the same time Hild is still the Devil. It felt like the perfect cap to the chapter, as Ranma accepted and embraced everything Hild is. She has no reason to hold back on Nabiki.

One question that immediately came to mind: If Hild did rewrite reality, then why do Kasumi and Nabiki still remember Ranma?  I'd think that the past would have retroactively changed to fit Ranma as Hild's child.  If not, then what is the practical effect of this rewrite that couldn't have been implemented by just formally adopting Ranma?  I hope I'm wrong, but this feels like the kind of thing he did in Heir to the Empire - introduce BIG and IMPRESSIVE things sentient battleships and takeover of Japan just for the sake of being BIG and IMPRESSIVE.  Which, of course, rarely works.

From the chapter:

It also caused a swell of pride. Another emotion flooded in to replace the betrayal and it was one that Ranma hadn't felt in a very long time, and she wondered if that was what Hild was feeling as well. Hild merely smiled as she watched the martial artist stare in awe. "Do you understand now? One press of his key will rewrite existence. You will become my son and daughter, and I your mother. Any evidence that you were born a Saotome will cease to exist. Those closest to you may remember your association to them, but as to the rest..."

People close to Ranma will remember him, but no one else will.

[Jason_Miao]

I was a bit unclear.  To clarify, I am not taking Ozzallos's chapter to task for inconsistency.

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The Nabiki soul harvesting at the end was pretty weak.  It comes off as petty, and I think it was a poor way to end the chapter.  Right after rewriting reality, Hild takes a dig at a mortal family?  Meh.  If it has to be done (for plot purposes further along the line), then at least end the chapter at the high point - namely, bringing Ranma into the family.

I'm fine with it and felt it was perfectly in character.  <very good points snipped for brevity>

Yes, it's in character, but that's not the point.  I don't have a problem with Hild collecting souls per se.  It's the timing and implementation.

The focus of that chapter is Ranma's final acceptance of his dual-life, and his incorporation into a new family.  The Nabiki-soul arc is a sideshow, if anything.  The chapter ends, not on dramatic point and the focus of entire fic, but a irrelevant one.  Thus, I have a small issue with the timing.

Implementation is a related issue.  The prose quality isn't bad (Not spectacular, but I've seen plenty worse, and I'm not convinced that I could do a better job, myself, so I'm the last person to be criticizing prose.), but the execution itself is just full of meh.  Ozzallos can do better; Ozzallos has done better.  HiMA chapter 9, part 2, which deals with soul collection, has a yakuza boss, at the height of his power, surrounded by guards, and with the heel of his boot on the neck of the last heir of his most hated enemies, laid low in one stroke.  And as a side effect, the competing yakuza group, once facing utter destruction, now has a fighting chance to rise to power once more and a nobody is on the fast track to become a top executive at his company.  To Hild, the collection wasn't anything special, but merely in the course of business.

So, now, there's Nabiki, who has personally annoyed Hild's favored person.  Nabiki owes her soul to Hild.  Entire stories and legends relate to trying to escape a devil's personal contract for souls, and Ozzallos has written a quality chapter with this very topic before; the setup just begs to become an awe-inspiring arc on its own.  Forget arc: this could be the topic of a new and multi-part sidestory.

Instead, Hild just briefly ignores squabbling Norns, walks into the dojo, says "Nabiki, you suck." and yoinks her soul.  And that's it?!

One question that immediately came to mind: If Hild did rewrite reality, then why do Kasumi and Nabiki still remember Ranma?

From the chapter:

Any evidence that you were born a Saotome will cease to exist. Those closest to you may remember your association to them, but as to the rest..."

For internal consistency, yes, it works.  What I meant to ask is, why did Ozzallos even bother?  Maybe keep Nabiki's memories, since she owes Hild her soul under the rationale that the truly innocent can't be put into hell and if Nabiki never remembers what she has done then there's no point.  The rest?

I'll be fair, and note that even authors lose sight of their own story's scope.  It is not uncommon to see a fantasy book that reads like this: Kid gets bullied in a small town, follows a dream by adventuring outside, makes advances, becomes super powerful, holds off an otherworldly invasion or is hailed as a peerless defender of the Empire or takes tea with Gods...then goes back to the hometown to go beat up the bullies.  It's a common end to modern-day bildungsromans, and it's just petty.

[Anastasia]

Once again to the spoiler zone!

[spoiler]

Yes, it's in character, but that's not the point.  I don't have a problem with Hild collecting souls per se.  It's the timing and implementation.

The focus of that chapter is Ranma's final acceptance of his dual-life, and his incorporation into a new family.  The Nabiki-soul arc is a sideshow, if anything.  The chapter ends, not on dramatic point and the focus of entire fic, but a irrelevant one.  Thus, I have a small issue with the timing.

Hmm.

I'm fine with the timing of it, but with the caveat that I feel it's a natural extension of what happened. Lemme try and parse it this way: In the manga, Nabiki gets away with things and is rarely, if ever, punished for her deeds. This essentially holds true throughout HiaMA until this point. Just now, Ranma turned away from his past life and its rules in favor of a new life. With a new life comes new rules. Nabiki finally getting busted for what she's done makes a powerful underline to this paradigm shift. Yes, Nabiki losing her soul is by itself a sideshow. The debt being called now highlights how things have changed with Ranma's choice.

I guess I see it as the big exclamation mark to the end of this chapter, if all this makes any sense? I'm not sure if I've degenerated into masturbatory bullshit territory here.

So, now, there's Nabiki, who has personally annoyed Hild's favored person.  Nabiki owes her soul to Hild.  Entire stories and legends relate to trying to escape a devil's personal contract for souls, and Ozzallos has written a quality chapter with this very topic before; the setup just begs to become an awe-inspiring arc on its own.  Forget arc: this could be the topic of a new and multi-part sidestory.

Instead, Hild just briefly ignores squabbling Norns, walks into the dojo, says "Nabiki, you suck." and yoinks her soul.  And that's it?!

Fair point.

What I take away from it is that Nabiki IS a small-fry. She's foolishly tossed away her soul and Hild is here to collect. The very futility of her resistance underlines her horrible mistake and hopelessness of the situation. She runs, she calls for help, she barters; nothing works. All she's ever relied on for protection is getting away with things and the good will of others. If Ranma or anyone else ever wanted to rearrange her face badly enough, she'd be screwed. The rules have changed and Nabiki is boned. I think that's why I accepted it so easily. Nabiki isn't some grand yazuka, martial arts mistress or goddess. She's just a greedy girl who has made a terrible mistake, one that no one can save her from.

That's why the execution works for me.

For internal consistency, yes, it works.  What I meant to ask is, why did Ozzallos even bother?  Maybe keep Nabiki's memories, since she owes Hild her soul under the rationale that the truly innocent can't be put into hell and if Nabiki never remembers what she has done then there's no point.  The rest?

I'll be fair, and note that even authors lose sight of their own story's scope.  It is not uncommon to see a fantasy book that reads like this: Kid gets bullied in a small town, follows a dream by adventuring outside, makes advances, becomes super powerful, holds off an otherworldly invasion or is hailed as a peerless defender of the Empire or takes tea with Gods...then goes back to the hometown to go beat up the bullies.  It's a common end to modern-day bildungsromans, and it's just petty.

Dunno. I suspect he has plans with some of the other characters still, but wants Ranma to largely be removed from the world. Now that I really think about it I'm not sure. Now I wanna see the next chapter to see how it's going to be hashed out.

Yeah, you're right about Ozzallos and losing sight of things on occasion.

[Jason_Miao]

Wheee!  (As an aside, maybe this discussion should get copied to a separate thread, since it is a bit of a digression.  Also, then half the page doesn't need to be hidden under spoiler tags).

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I'm fine with the timing of it, but with the caveat that I feel it's a natural extension of what happened. Lemme try and parse it this way: In the manga, Nabiki gets away with things and is rarely, if ever, punished for her deeds. This essentially holds true throughout HiaMA until this point. Just now, Ranma turned away from his past life and its rules in favor of a new life. With a new life comes new rules. Nabiki finally getting busted for what she's done makes a powerful underline to this paradigm shift. Yes, Nabiki losing her soul is by itself a sideshow. The debt being called now highlights how things have changed with Ranma's choice.

If that's what he was trying to do, then I can accept that.  That's pretty meta, hard to pull off, and frankly, I don't think he actually did pull it off.  But it makes sense as a goal, and I can respect the attempt.

What I take away from it is that Nabiki IS a small-fry.

And I can sympathize with that view, since I personally hold it, but one needs to either lead up to that, or show it in starker contrast.  Ozzallos hasn't.  End of chapter 9 shows that Nabiki has minions, and that Nabiki has been manipulating events behind the scenes.  In context of the story up until now, she isn't small-fry.

I've had scenarios running through my mind as to how the many ways Ozzallos could have written this scene, depending on where he wants to go with the story.  If he wanted to show that Nabiki is ultimately irrelevant now, he doesn't need to have Hild herself cull Nabiki.  Rather, have Hild go tell Mara to assign a 3rd rank demon to do it.  "You don't want to do it yourself, boss?"  "For a soul I picked up on the side?  Why bother?  I'd rather spend some time with my new daughter." 

Basically, Nabiki is either important (in Hild's eyes), or she isn't.  If she is supposed to be unimportant, the collection can be handled in such a way that better serves as a contrast to Ranma's previous life.  If Nabiki is important, because of the pain she has caused Ranma, then do something suitable to make Nabiki regret it...then take her soul at the lowest point.

The very futility of her resistance underlines her horrible mistake and hopelessness of the situation. She runs, she calls for help, she barters; nothing works.

Then we agree, just not on the necessary degree.  That's exactly it.  That's what I think needs to be more fully explored.  He spent less than a page on it.  It could be it's own arc.  It could be its own fic.  It could be, and should be, so much more.

And...hmm, speaking of writing this up as a fic.  Now I have this idea of a Nabiki-damnation fic running through my head.  I'll have to plot it out a bit, and see if I can't get something writable.  So, hey, maybe I did get something more out of this chapter than I first thought.

[Brian]

And done; you guys can go nuts. :)

[Anastasia]

Go ahead and screw the spoilers at this point. I'll just add a note in the topic it's a spoiler zone.

If that's what he was trying to do, then I can accept that.  That's pretty meta, hard to pull off, and frankly, I don't think he actually did pull it off.  But it makes sense as a goal, and I can respect the attempt.

I'm not sure if that's what he meant to do, but that's what I took away from it. If he did, I more or less agree with you and think he should've been a little less subtle about it. Hild or one of the goddesses dropping a comment to that end would have been highly edifying. I came to that conclusion after reading it twice and a lot of thought, as well as your posts on the matter. It's not particularly obvious.

And I can sympathize with that view, since I personally hold it, but one needs to either lead up to that, or show it in starker contrast.  Ozzallos hasn't.  End of chapter 9 shows that Nabiki has minions, and that Nabiki has been manipulating events behind the scenes.  In context of the story up until now, she isn't small-fry.

Is she? Her acts so far in the story have had little impact beyond damning herself and she's proven to be ineffective versus what's happening. She gets used by Hild in chapter 9, sells her soul to her in a boneheaded way earlier and...that's all that comes to mind. She constantly carries herself higher than she is - it's her hubris that makes her seem bigger than she actually is. In reality, she's a little girl who's playing with super martial artists, monsters and now Hild.

I've had scenarios running through my mind as to how the many ways Ozzallos could have written this scene, depending on where he wants to go with the story.  If he wanted to show that Nabiki is ultimately irrelevant now, he doesn't need to have Hild herself cull Nabiki.  Rather, have Hild go tell Mara to assign a 3rd rank demon to do it.  "You don't want to do it yourself, boss?"  "For a soul I picked up on the side?  Why bother?  I'd rather spend some time with my new daughter." 

I agree with that 100%. That sort of casual dismissal works great(Assuming that she's not obligated to do it herself, as its her own contract) and would make a much stronger point. On the other hand, it is personal for Hild and she may very well have known the Goddesses would be there. But that's getting into whole-sale speculation of motives and I think you have a point there anyway.

Basically, Nabiki is either important (in Hild's eyes), or she isn't.  If she is supposed to be unimportant, the collection can be handled in such a way that better serves as a contrast to Ranma's previous life.  If Nabiki is important, because of the pain she has caused Ranma, then do something suitable to make Nabiki regret it...then take her soul at the lowest point.

Likely, from Hild's point of view, anything she can do to Nabiki in Hell is infinitely more rewarding and painful than tormenting her on Earth. Taking Nabiki like this hurts the other Tendos, who she said as much she wanted to hurt. She's not hurting just Nabiki.

"Just leave them alone, Hild!" Skuld inserted for lack of a more substantial argument and the woman in question simply laughed.

"I will not 'just leave them alone'." Hild disagreed and the space around her steadily began to darken. Lightning cut through the sheets of rain, casting her in an evil light as she stared back down upon the Goddess of the Future. "An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, a hand for a hand, a foot for a foot, little goddess. I shall take all of these and more."

Hild has just taken Nabiki's soul and condemned her to eternity in Hell. That's a crushing misery to inflict on the Tendos, one that's a suitable revenge for her.

Then we agree, just not on the necessary degree.  That's exactly it.  That's what I think needs to be more fully explored.  He spent less than a page on it.  It could be it's own arc.  It could be its own fic.  It could be, and should be, so much more.

Fair enough. I think Ozzallos plans to do more with it after the grab, rather than making the grab a big arc of its own.

And...hmm, speaking of writing this up as a fic.  Now I have this idea of a Nabiki-damnation fic running through my head.  I'll have to plot it out a bit, and see if I can't get something writable.  So, hey, maybe I did get something more out of this chapter than I first thought.

Awesome!

[Jason_Miao]

End of chapter 9 shows that Nabiki has minions, and that Nabiki has been manipulating events behind the scenes.  In context of the story up until now, she isn't small-fry.

Is she? Her acts so far in the story have had little impact beyond damning herself and she's proven to be ineffective versus what's happening. She gets used by Hild in chapter 9, sells her soul to her in a boneheaded way earlier and...that's all that comes to mind. She constantly carries herself higher than she is - it's her hubris that makes her seem bigger than she actually is. In reality, she's a little girl who's playing with super martial artists, monsters and now Hild.

I've felt that Nabiki is a proverbial frog in the Nerima well, who has never seen the Eastern sea.  Nerima has its rules and customs, and Nabiki controls people who abide by those.  She is a big deal...in Nerima.  If she were in, say, Macau, she'd probably be drugged or sold off into slavery within the week.  Or missing her kidneys.  Or both.  But she's in Nerima, and she's a big deal by Nerima standards.  She gets played by Hild, because Hild is far and away beyond the scope of Nerima.

For me, the basic theme of the fic after the Mother's day scene is that Hild doesn't play by those rules (because she's the Queen of Hell, so what does she care for Nerima customs?), and that for Ranma's sake, she is trying to convince Ranma that he also doesn't need to play by those rules.  If that theme holds true, then this latest chapter is Ranma transcending Nerima rules.  And since he's now above them, he is also above Nabiki.  So, yeah, when Ranma pressed the button, Nabiki went from being a factor to being small-fry, and so I think we agree up to this point.

I think that is probably a better articulation of why ending it with Hild personally going Nabiki-soul harvesting annoys me.  The story should be beyond that, because Nabiki is, now, nothing, and why would you end on a point of nothing?  If Ozzallos wants to express Hild's vengence for when she wasn't a relatively small-fry, all well and good, but make it proportional to her importance at the time the transgression was made.

Likely, from Hild's point of view, anything she can do to Nabiki in Hell is infinitely more rewarding and painful than tormenting her on Earth. Taking Nabiki like this hurts the other Tendos, who she said as much she wanted to hurt. She's not hurting just Nabiki.

"Just leave them alone, Hild!" Skuld inserted for lack of a more substantial argument and the woman in question simply laughed.

"I will not 'just leave them alone'." Hild disagreed and the space around her steadily began to darken. Lightning cut through the sheets of rain, casting her in an evil light as she stared back down upon the Goddess of the Future. "An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, a hand for a hand, a foot for a foot, little goddess. I shall take all of these and more."

Hild has just taken Nabiki's soul and condemned her to eternity in Hell. That's a crushing misery to inflict on the Tendos, one that's a suitable revenge for her.

How should I put this...a stray bullet that hits Nabiki in the forehead inflicts misery on all Tendos.  Getting (for example) Nabiki to shoot herself in the head does that, but also so much more.  One sucks, badly.  The other is hellish, and can be spun into something that really screws over the Tendos (was Akane cuckolded by her own sister, who regretted it to the point of suicide?  Was Nabiki's brand of insanity genetic?).  For any demonic story, and especially from I'd expect the second - otherwise, it's not really a story of demons and hellfire and damnation and regret piled upon regret.  It's merely the literary equivalent to gunning Nabiki down.

Basically, it's my scope complaint, all over again.

[Dracos]

Hmm, on the whole, I lean with Dune here.  I think that the chapter brought out and played a number of good hands that bettered the work overall.

But Miao at the same time taps my strangeness with it.  Ozz can write some pretty awesome stuff and it didn't feel like the delivery of some of those elements was really his A game.

There is an interesting side note that I don't think you're considering in your direction though anymore Miao.  In the context of the story, Queen of Hell Hild is no longer 'just evil'.  So spending a long time or a 'pointlessly cruel' setup can't really be delivered.  It's expected narratively that she's better than that, even if she plays by a different set of rules.  In the same way she'd no longer break Ranma, having her do more than just take what she's already been promised sort of sets her up narratively for a comeuppence. 

Mrrgh.

Basically it feels like a B-game Ozz chapter with A-game material.  Good, worth reading, but at the same time, sort of leaves one wishing it'd delivered some of its punches more effectively.

[Jason_Miao]

Hmm, on the whole, I lean with Dune here.  I think that the chapter brought out and played a number of good hands that bettered the work overall.

Oh, and I agree with you both.  As I said up front (buried somewhere under all those spoiler tags, so I'm not surprised it was lost in the posts), that I think I like this chapter, overall.

There is an interesting side note that I don't think you're considering in your direction though anymore Miao.  In the context of the story, Queen of Hell Hild is no longer 'just evil'.  So spending a long time or a 'pointlessly cruel' setup can't really be delivered. 

Wait, wait, I'm not saying Hild is 'just evil'.  But 'justly evil' is a fair description- after all, torture of those who have earned damnation is what she does.  And before you make the next reasonable jump, just setting up Hild Ex Machina to wreck Nabiki's life doesn't work either, because employing otherworldly powers with no chance for Nabiki to change her fate is, storywise, no better than my aforementioned "bullet to the head" example.  Both just reduce to happenstance - tragic, but not poignant or ironic.

A simple setup for a story about damnation to Hell (not the only one, and not the one I'd favor in this case, but just as an example) is that the writer sets up a series of choices between the "smart" option and the "selfless" option.  Nabiki, being Nabiki, and the Tendos being the Tendos, continually pick the "smart" option, which only leads to a worse situation.  And at the lowest point, when everything they own or cherish turns to dust and the opinion of society is united against them, THEN Hild takes Nabiki's soul.  Before Hild sentences Nabiki to eternity as an underpaid OL in a bunny suit and painfully high heels, Hild explains how the Tendo family's situation would have improved, had Nabiki chosen to be selfless at any one of the tests.  And Nabiki, only then (or perhaps not even right then), realizes that their own selfishness is the cause of their downfall.  So she suffers for eternity with the knowledge that it could have been avoided.

Sure, it's a fairly generic deal-with-the-devil framework, but it's a solid one.  It's not 'pointlessly cruel', it's cruelty with a purpose - it's a series of tests that Hild subjects Nabiki to, tests that she has a right to administer by virtue of the contract, tests where Nabiki can escape to enter hell on her own merits.  Nabiki fails, because it's in her nature to fail that sort of test and this isn't a fic about Nabiki's personal growth, but her comeuppance.  This setup isn't even a reach, given Ozzallos's past chapters: Urd was continually trying to warn Ranma against Hild's 'corruptive influence' (e.g, chapter 6, after Ranma and Hild return to the Dojo).  Turn that accusation around, and you'd get the explanation that Hild tests by giving others the opportunity to sin - those who do not prove their virtue.


Compare the testing-to-hell framework with eternal damnation for breaching a ~$270 contract (i.e the last chapter)  Of the two options, I think the latter is better described as 'pointlessly cruel'.  And it irks me, precisely because I think it is pointless.  Of course, Dune disagrees, and has raised some pretty good points too.

[Dracos]

Well, there definitely though was setup for it.  Prior chapters pretty much spelled out how Outside the Normal Bounds Nabiki's setup was (Hild can't normally just go do that...except when she's both propositioned and lied to).  The Gods are annoyed because instead of this being a back and forth deal where they get to make moves, they pretty much lost before even being aware the deal was going on and had nothing left in their hand but begging (Thus Urd's make sure he doesn't sign a contract mission).

Truthfully, I don't know if I'd consider the 'smart' option to be "I went and called a bunch of people after someone said they're the devil and are going to take my soul".  Not because yeah, that's an absurd threat, but because this is Ranma-verse that has already in it that folks do totally pull that kind of shit with promises (Nabiki being one of them).  Smart really would've been the 'hey, I'm missing something here and I really should figure it out.'  Nabiki in context didn't choose the smart option (Make some money, minimize additional risk), she chose the greedy option (Make a some money, then...make some more money)

Stepping back here, Hild isn't taking the role of a Justice giver here, she's taking the role of "Man I've wanted to hurt these people, what do I got?  Oh, her soul."  I think what you suggest would be far too much time on Nabiki.  It isn't about her comeuppence at all.  That's just seasoning.  Because it's not, having a long period of time on it would be strange.  We'd wonder, why are we tempting Nabiki instead of Akane or someone else?  What makes her stand out for special attention? 

We know why Ranma stands out for it.  He smacked Urd around in chapter 1 which totally pushed him up into the 'Interesting' frame for the gods.  What has Nabiki done to be interesting instead of like a Gnat that just gets swatted?  Outside of Nabiki's own actions, Hild wouldn't have even said hello to her.

It doesn't feel like, in the context of the story, had Ranma gone along with marrying Akane that Hild would've even bothered with that petty shot, but since Ranma was all hurt, it makes complete sense that'd she'd go and simply claw the Tendo's painfully.

[Brian]

A troper e-mailed me this; I think it belongs in this thread:

Ah... I KNEW I'd seen Ozzallos's reasoning behind turning Ranma into a girl so much... found it in one of the 'Hell's a Martial Artist' AN's:

'On a side note I received THIS wonderful review: "I really hope you keep your promise to not screw him with yet another locked as a female story. I really like most of your stories, but your obsession with his females side is tiresome."

My dear anonymous sir, do you realize how much you TEMPT me? Everybody hoping for Ranma to at least retain some measure of masculinity in this fic should grab a cricket bat and beat this person down. And yes. I do have a marked tendency to Ranmachan fics. Would you like to know why? Tough, I'll tell you all anyway. Because while I absolutely love the series and the concept, the amount of potential lost in such a wonderful plot mechanic is tragically epic. Rumiko touches upon it ever so briefly in the first two books, whereupon you find next to nothing of it moving forward to 38. Instead, that wonderful plot device which she ever-so-occasionally touches upon is used as little more than a comedy bludgeon throughout the rest of the series. It literally leaves me ACHING to explore the aquatransexual dynamic in depth, along with the physical and mental aspect on such a deeply flawed individual such as Ranma.

Okay, I am now apparently ranting.'

Of course, I have nothing AGAINST turning Ranma into a girl... so long as there's something that's recognisably Ranma. Genma's Daughter, for instance, is a travesty. Seriously, what the hell were they thinking? 'Let's make Ranma... nothing like Ranma in the slightest, without much of a logical reason for abandoning something they'd worked on for ten years'?

And pairing Ranma with Ryoga is just ridiculous. :|

So, wow.